MOTOWN LP FILLER TRACKS,how do we know what are the fillers exactly?

[tamla617]

who says which are filler tracks?is it older tracks bought forward for a later lp?or stuff that sounds out of phase with the contempory tracks on the lp?tracks we dont like?oh thats a filler track its not that good.or tracks that earlier failed quality control?

the four tops "reachout" lp had 2 monkees' tracks i'm a believer and last train to clarksville.i assume they, if any on there, would be fillers.

is there anything written or interviews been given that "talks about" lp track compiling?

[midnight johnny]

My notion about filler tracks is that they are album tracks that were not used for a 45 rpm release.

[Motown Eddie]

In Otis Williams' "Temptations" memoir, he mentions that "selling an album [[in the early '60s) was like reselling one, two, or three hit singles plus some throwaway filler tracks that nobody really gave a damn about". He also says that with "Temptations Sing Smokey" & "Temptin' Temptations", "more thought went into the filler tracks so these records still hold up today". And in Mary Wilson's book "Dreamgirl", she mentions that such songs as their version of "Love Is Like A Heat Wave" on "Sing H-D-H" were "just filler and was not considered for single release".

[Nothing But Soul]

The difference between filler tracks and hidden treasures is purely subjective. To me, filler tracks are uninspired cover versions or original songs that clearly were not deemed worthy of single release. An album without filler tracks is one that you can listen to all the way through without distraction. Up until the mid to late sixties, album sales were generally not considered sufficient to warrant including really strong tracks that weren’t going to be released as singles.

Of course, Motown, because of their consistently high quality had exceptions to this rule. Smokey Robinson and the Miracles were a prime example. Because Smokey was a world class songwriter and also a producer, this would be expected, but their albums also included great songs that Smokey didn’t write. I got their Make It Happen album soon after it came out in 1967, and I’ve always considered it a masterpiece. It only includes one cover song [[Little Anthony’s “I’m On The Outside Looking In”); the rest of the album is full of great Motown songs from numerous sources. Two of my favorite Miracles singles, “More Love” and “The Love I Saw In You Was Just A Mirage” anchor this album, but there are also many classic tracks that were never released as singles including: Stevie Wonder and Ivy Hunter’s “My Love Is Your Love Forever” and Holland-Dozier-Holland’s “It’s a Good Feeling.” There was also a terrific track on this album, “The Tears of a Clown”, that was not released as a single in the States for another three years [[and probably would never have been if it hadn’t gone to Number 1 in Europe).

[soulster]

Filler tracks are songs you don't like.

[smark21]

Filler is in the ear of the beholder. That being said, some artists do put thought into putting out a good, cohesive album meant to be an artistic statement. Certainly the song “Right On” from What’s Goin’ On is no filler type songs, but due to length, it was certainly not meant to be a hit single, but the song fits the overall theme of the album. On the other hand, take many of the indifferently produced and recorded cover songs on Supremes a Go Go. Now that’s filler in the most pejorative sense of the word.

[Motown4Ever518]

Filler is in the ear of the beholder. That being said, some artists do put thought into putting out a good, cohesive album meant to be an artistic statement. Certainly the song “Right On” from What’s Goin’ On is no filler type songs, but due to length, it was certainly not meant to be a hit single, but the song fits the overall theme of the album. On the other hand, take many of the indifferently produced and recorded cover songs on Supremes a Go Go. Now that’s filler in the most pejorative sense of the word.

One mans meat is indeed another mans filler. Filler is quite subjective. I however cannot see a record company saying let's cut some filler today. After all was said and done there was probably some material that was not deemed worthy of a single release. But at West Grand Blvd. your artist account was being charged for what you recorded so it was in your best interest for everything recorded to be successful. Also, I think I read that during the era of the 45 record, 90% of the records not deemed filler did not recoup costs. A tip of the chapeau to Motown for releasing some serious B-Sides as well as album tracks.

[jobeterob]

If Shake Me Wake Me from Supremes A Go Go was filler..............it was one time I thought they did a Four Tops song better than the Four Tops.

[jsmith]

Purely subjective this as everyone's ideas of what's filler is different.
I hate Motown versions of old standards [[Broadway tunes, etc) & Motown versions of pop songs [[the Tops did quite a few after HDH jumped ship) ......
... MIND YOU .... back in the 60's I used to get annoyed by the number of cover versions of Motown hits on other Motown artists albums. Now I try to get copies of just about all such recordings. I especially like other Motown artists versions of Supremes' songs, as the 'cover' is just about always a lot more soulful [[& therefore much better IMHO).

[thisoldheart]

is it possible some songs not released as singles were written as possible singles? i am thinking of "going down for the third time" and "i got a feeling" for example ... but, they just never could get released at an opportune time? motown rarely [[never?) released a song like the supremes' "shake me, wake me" which is a very close copy to the tops [[though i like it too). at that time the supremes would hardly have covered anybody! they always made radical changes to songs they released twice [[i heard it through the grapevine).

[RossHolloway]

In Otis Williams' "Temptations" memoir, he mentions that "selling an album [[in the early '60s) was like reselling one, two, or three hit singles plus some throwaway filler tracks that nobody really gave a damn about". He also says that with "Temptations Sing Smokey" & "Temptin' Temptations", "more thought went into the filler tracks so these records still hold up today". And in Mary Wilson's book "Dreamgirl", she mentions that such songs as their version of "Love Is Like A Heat Wave" on "Sing H-D-H" were "just filler and was not considered for single release".

This has always been my understanding of a filler song. But I also think that word "filler" can carry such a bad connotation. I must have been about 15 when I first bought the Temptations Sing Smokey and can pinpoint the end of that album as when I fell in love with the group. Sure most of the songs on the album were songs covered by other artists, but the Temptations sang them as if they were being sung for the first time. Or Mary Well's album My Guy, only one single was released from the album, but I would hardly call the other songs throw aways songs. The album is still listenable from first to last song and is a cohesive, mature, jazz outing for Mary Well's and remains one of my favorite albums from the 1960's. Same with Brenda Holloway's Every Little Bit Hurts album, only one single was released from the album, and most of the songs are covers, but if you listen to that album from front to back you get a real good idea of the great vocal talent that she was at the age of 17 and you'd be hard press to dismiss her work on that album as "just filler".

[Motown Eddie]

This has always been my understanding of a filler song. But I also think that word "filler" can carry such a bad connotation. I must have been about 15 when I first bought the Temptations Sing Smokey and can pinpoint the end of that album as when I fell in love with the group. Sure most of the songs on the album were songs covered by other artists, but the Temptations sang them as if they were being sung for the first time. Or Mary Well's album My Guy, only one single was released from the album, but I would hardly call the other songs throw aways songs. The album is still listenable from first to last song and is a cohesive, mature, jazz outing for Mary Well's and remains one of my favorite albums from the 1960's. Same with Brenda Holloway's Every Little Bit Hurts album, only one single was released from the album, and most of the songs are covers, but if you listen to that album from front to back you get a real good idea of the great vocal talent that she was at the age of 17 and you'd be hard press to dismiss her work on that album as "just filler".

Of course what is "filler" and what isn't on a Motown LP from the '60s is purely a matter of personal taste. For instance, I love The Temptations "Sing Smokey" LP too and that album is mostly cover versions [[and yes, The Tempts sang everything on that album as if the songs were written for them).

[theboyfromxtown]

If Shake Me Wake Me from Supremes A Go Go was filler..............it was one time I thought they did a Four Tops song better than the Four Tops.

Interesting. I preferred the Supremes' version of "Baby I Need Your Loving"

[Motown Eddie]

who says which are filler tracks?is it older tracks bought forward for a later lp?or stuff that sounds out of phase with the contempory tracks on the lp?tracks we dont like?oh thats a filler track its not that good.or tracks that earlier failed quality control?

the four tops "reachout" lp had 2 monkees' tracks i'm a believer and last train to clarksville.i assume they, if any on there, would be fillers.

is there anything written or interviews been given that "talks about" lp track compiling?

Regarding The Four Tops cover versions on the "Reach Out" LP; one of Duke Fakir's interview segments from the "Reach Out/Definitive Performances" DVD mentions a desire by Berry Gordy and H-D-H to "go beyond the Motown sound" and try other things so the LP has a lot of songs from outside the Motown standard like 'Walk Away Renee', 'If I Were A Carpenter' as well as the two songs by The Monkees.

[RossHolloway]

Interesting. I preferred the Supremes' version of "Baby I Need Your Loving"

I love their version of BINYL and Shake Me, Wake Me and I find their version of This Old Heart of Mine just as good as the Isley's original version. I really think that the Supreme's and HDH were firing on all cylinders when they put together this album.

[jobeterob]

Commercially, at least, A Go Go, sometimes referred to as the "filler" album, is amongst their most successful albums.

[Motown Eddie]

For me, great examples of "filler tracks" are songs which appear on two different LPs such as The Supremes' 'Ask Any Girl' [[on "Where Did Our Love Go" and "More Hits"), The Temptations' 'The Way You Do The Things You Do' [[on "Meet The Temptations" and "Sing Smokey") and Martha & the Vandellas' 'There He Is [[At My Door)' [[on "Come And Get These Memories" and "Dance Party").

[jobeterob]

Good one Eddie.

Motown was one of the worst record companies for doing that again and again; that is real filler.

[kenneth]

For me, great examples of "filler tracks" are songs which appear on two different LPs such as The Supremes' 'Ask Any Girl' [[on "Where Did Our Love Go" and "More Hits"), The Temptations' 'The Way You Do The Things You Do' [[on "Meet The Temptations" and "Sing Smokey") and Martha & the Vandellas' 'There He Is [[At My Door)' [[on "Come And Get These Memories" and "Dance Party").

The version of "There He Is [[At My Door)" on "Dance Party" is a rerecording of the song and a much stronger performance by Martha. I haven't played it in a long time, but I don't think it's even the same backing track. I think the second version has much more force and verve.

[destruction]

One mans meat is indeed another mans filler.

Funniest thing I've read all week.

[tamla617]

Funniest thing I've read all week.

maybe this year. you well and truly sandwiched that motown4ever......

[smark21]

I do like the 4 Tops covers and This Old Heart of Mine, but some of the songs on A go go, like Come and Get These Memories, Get Ready, These Boots and Hang On Sloopy are so indifferently produced, arranged and performed. They’re not awful, just meh.

[thisoldheart]

I do like the 4 Tops covers and This Old Heart of Mine, but some of the songs on A go go, like Come and Get These Memories, Get Ready, These Boots and Hang On Sloopy are so indifferently produced, arranged and performed. They’re not awful, just meh.
oh, "hang on sloopy" and "boots" are awful!

[jobeterob]

Boots and Sloopy and Memories are not good ~ they are filler.

[psychedelic jacques]

I agree that the definition of 'filler' is mainly subjective, but if filler is broadly the stuff used to make up an album, then what do you call the unreleased material? Tracks not considered good enough to even be 'filler' for an album, or higer quality stuff which just "did not have it's day" for some reason [[i.e. a track ready to be a follow-up single but vaulted when the first single underperformed)? I imagine we can all think of a host of unreleased tracks which we think deserved to have been released on albums at the time rather than some of the 'filler' that was.

[roger]

I agree that the definition of 'filler' is mainly subjective, but if filler is broadly the stuff used to make up an album, then what do you call the unreleased material? Tracks not considered good enough to even be 'filler' for an album, or higer quality stuff which just "did not have it's day" for some reason [[i.e. a track ready to be a follow-up single but vaulted when the first single underperformed)? I imagine we can all think of a host of unreleased tracks which we think deserved to have been released on albums at the time rather than some of the 'filler' that was.

Well yes .. could we call "Heard It Through The Grpaevine" by MARVIN GAYE filler? It was an 18 month old "vaulted" track when it finally came out on an L.P. in August 1968, and it was seemingly only included to give the L.P. a familiar title to help gain the attention of the record buying public!!

Roger

[Kamasu_Jr]

The difference between filler tracks and hidden treasures is purely subjective. To me, filler tracks are uninspired cover versions or original songs that clearly were not deemed worthy of single release. An album without filler tracks is one that you can listen to all the way through without distraction. Up until the mid to late sixties, album sales were generally not considered sufficient to warrant including really strong tracks that weren’t going to be released as singles.

Of course, Motown, because of their consistently high quality had exceptions to this rule. Smokey Robinson and the Miracles were a prime example. Because Smokey was a world class songwriter and also a producer, this would be expected, but their albums also included great songs that Smokey didn’t write. I got their Make It Happen album soon after it came out in 1967, and I’ve always considered it a masterpiece. It only includes one cover song [[Little Anthony’s “I’m On The Outside Looking In”); the rest of the album is full of great Motown songs from numerous sources. Two of my favorite Miracles singles, “More Love” and “The Love I Saw In You Was Just A Mirage” anchor this album, but there are also many classic tracks that were never released as singles including: Stevie Wonder and Ivy Hunter’s “My Love Is Your Love Forever” and Holland-Dozier-Holland’s “It’s a Good Feeling.” There was also a terrific track on this album, “The Tears of a Clown”, that was not released as a single in the States for another three years [[and probably would never have been if it hadn’t gone to Number 1 in Europe).

Good Point. Because Motown had such exceptional songwriters and producers, its filler or throwaway tracks were usually of high quality. I don't think Smokey Robinson ever intentionally wrote filler songs.

[robb_k]

5017
To me, -filler cuts are those that were not given the "A" treatment in songwriting, arrangement, and recording of the background tracks and mixing [[and because of those factors, often, the singers or producers recrding of the singers also didn't get the "A" treatment.

"California Soul" is a great illustration of this. The Messengers' Soul single got the "A" background music track from The Funk Brothers, and a fantastic mixing job. But, unfortunately, The Messengers' singing was poor quality. Blinky and Edwin Starr and got the weak, "B" "throwaway" instrumental tracks and mix, and their cut was not a hit. It might as well have been a throwaway cut on an album. Their single didn't sell. And it would have been just an "okay" cut on an album.

Had they combined Blinky and Edwin Starr's vocals with the tracks and mix given to The Messengers, they'd have gotten a hit single, or a cut on an album that would have helped make it a memorable album.

In the early 60s there were a LOT of filler tracks on Motown albums [[Marvelettes, Martha & Vandellas, Temptations, Mary Wells. They were songs not given special treatment [[better-written and arranged and more painstakenly-created backgrounds [[and were often half-hearted "cranked-out" cuts just to fill out the albums. Many were hits from non-Motown artists, and some songs that were hits by other Motown artists. Others were just the poorer-written songs of the various Motown writers.

[Motown Eddie]

Well yes .. could we call "Heard It Through The Grpaevine" by MARVIN GAYE filler? It was an 18 month old "vaulted" track when it finally came out on an L.P. in August 1968, and it was seemingly only included to give the L.P. a familiar title to help gain the attention of the record buying public!!

Roger

You're right about Marvin Gaye's version of "Grapevine" being placed on the Aug. 1968 LP In The Groove due to it's "name value" since it was a huge hit for Gladys Knight & the Pips the year before [[and it wouldn't have happened if producer Norman Whitfield pushed for the song's inclusion on the LP). It's a good thing that it happened or Marvin's classic [[and original) version of "Grapevine" could've been locked in the vaults for decades.

[milven]

I would prefer to refer to Marvin's Grapevine as a vaulted treasure rather than a filler. Berry's decision to not release it proved to be a huge mistake as the song proved to be Motown's biggest seller at that time when it was finally released.

I am a huge Gladys fan, but I have always preferred the Marvin Gaye arrangement, which can be much more appreciated when his brilliant vocals are removed. You can then concentrate on what the Andantes, Funk Brothers and Detroit Symphony were doing. Adding Marvin's voice to what they had recorded makes this song a true classic.



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zp6p78jCECo

[thisoldheart]

You can then concentrate on what the Andantes ...
the andantes could certainly do much more than "sweetening" ... they could sing! i am happy they are getting their fair share of recognition, albeit 40 years late. thank god for revisionist history!

[Motown Eddie]

I would prefer to refer to Marvin's Grapevine as a vaulted treasure rather than a filler. Berry's decision to not release it proved to be a huge mistake as the song proved to be Motown's biggest seller at that time when it was finally released.

I am a huge Gladys fan, but I have always preferred the Marvin Gaye arrangement, which can be much more appreciated when his brilliant vocals are removed. You can then concentrate on what the Andantes, Funk Brothers and Detroit Symphony were doing. Adding Marvin's voice to what they had recorded makes this song a true classic.



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zp6p78jCECo

Of course there's no other way to think of Marvin Gaye's version of 'I Heard It Through The Grapevine' as a "vaulted treasure" since it's such a classic [[and the biggest selling single of Motown's first decade).

And Marvin had another classic that was issued twice on different albums; 'That's The Way Love Is' first came out on the M.P.G. album in 1969; became a top ten hit later that year and the following year became the title track of an album. While the song may have an alternate take/mix/edit on these different LPs, I still think it's a good example of "filler" on A Motown LP.

[mwlh]

I think "fillers" are a nuber of things, mainly covers of curret hits or just songs that didn't get through "Quality Control" to be issued as singles - of course there were hundreds - the most famous example, perhaps, is Marvin Gaye's "Grapevine). But I don't know of any examples where either the singing or the backing was below the usual high standards. Anyone know of an Exception To My Rule? [[Geddit?)