What if you had the choice to make a Capitol compilation album?

[marcel_visser]

I'm curious of what you would do if you had the choice to make a compilation from the Capitol label. No sub-labels...the tracks must have been released on the Capitol label only. What kind of concept do you think of that is unique?

You can think about a 1CD 2CD or 3CD boxset.

cheers,

Marcel

[soulster]

OK. off the top of my head, if I make a 70s comp of Capitol Records hits, in no particular order, and keeping it to 10 tracks:

I've Got Love On My Mind - Natalie Cole [[1977)
It Only Takes A Minute [[45 version) - Tavares [[1975)
Boogie Oogie Oogie [[45 version) - A Taste Of Honey [[1978)
Reaching For the Sky - Peabo Bryson [[1978)
Radiation Level - Sun [[1979)
When I'm Alone - Maze featuring Frankie Beverly [[1977)
This Will Be - Natalie Cole [[1975)
Heaven Must Be Missing An Angel Pt. 1 - Tavares [[1976)
Boogie Fever - Sylvers [[1976)

Now, if I do the 80s:

You Are My Lady - Freddie Jackson [[1985)
Atomic Dog [[45 version) - George Clinton [[1983)
Let's Go All the Way [[45 version) - Sly Fox [[1986)
We Are One - Maze [[1983)
You And I - O'Bryan [[1982)
Dancing All Night [[45 version) - Sheree Brown [[1981)
The Gigolo [[45 version) - O'Bryan [[1981)
Everything Is Cool [[45 version) - T-Connection [[1981)
Sukiyaki - A Taste Of Honey [[1981)
Let's Stay Together [[45 version) - Tina Turner [[1984)

The only three I could come up with for the 60s is:

Love Is A Hurtin' Thing - Lou Rawls [[1966)
Mercy, Mercy, Mercy [[live) - Cannonball Adderly [[1967)
Dead End Street - Lou Rawls [[1967)

[luke]

Yikes I cant think of a lot of soul on the Capitol label itslef right now!![[Betty Swan on sublabel...) Hmmm-Patti Drew more pop to me. Hmmmmm Tavares? Tina more rock. Hmmmmm--guess I need to come back later! lol

[soulster]

We aren't talking about what an artist's usual repertoire is, we're talking about individual songs. Tina Turner, Patti Drew, and Tavares all have had a heavy presence in the R&B market. Do your chart history. They have all had big hits that were favored by the R&B crowd.

[luke]

Lou Rawls-Love is a Hurtin thing.

[reese]

OK. off the top of my head, if I make a 70s comp of Capitol Records hits, in no particular order, and keeping it to 10 tracks:

I've Got Love On My Mind - Natalie Cole [[1977)
It Only Takes A Minute [[45 version) - Tavares [[1975)
Boogie Oogie Oogie [[45 version) - A Taste Of Honey [[1978)
Reaching For the Sky - Peabo Bryson [[1978)
A Natural Man - Lou Rawls [[1971)
Radiation Level - Sun [[1979)
When I'm Alone - Maze featuring Frankie Beverly [[1977)
This Will Be - Natalie Cole [[1975)
Heaven Must Be Missing An Angel Pt. 1 - Tavares [[1976)
Boogie Fever - Sylvers [[1976)

Now, if I do the 80s:

You Are My Lady - Freddie Jackson [[1985)
Atomic Dog [[45 version) - George Clinton [[1983)
Let's Go All the Way [[45 version) - Sly Fox [[1986)
We Are One - Maze [[1983)
You And I - O'Bryan [[1982)
Dancing All Night [[45 version) - Sheree Brown [[1981)
The Gigolo [[45 version) - O'Bryan [[1981)
Everything Is Cool [[45 version) - T-Connection [[1981)
Sukiyaki - A Taste Of Honey [[1981)
Let's Stay Together [[45 version) - Tina Turner [[1984)

The only three I could come up with for the 60s is:

Love Is A Hurtin' Thing - Lou Rawls [[1966)
Mercy, Mercy, Mercy [[live) - Cannonball Adderly [[1967)
Dead End Street - Lou Rawls [[1967)

For the 60s, I'd pick some of Nancy Wilson's recordings like SAVE YOUR LOVE FOR ME, GUESS WHO I SAW TODAY, and HOW GLAD I AM. Also, maybe some of Nat Cole's later recordings like LOOKING BACK.

Also, Lou Rawls was on MGM when he recorded A NATURAL MAN.

[soulster]

It should also be noted that when Natalie Cole came out with her first record, she was marketed as a pop artist. Tavares' first hit single "It Only Takes A Minute" was also marketed to pop radio. This happened right before Larkin Arnold took over their Black Music department, and he decided that Black artists should be only marketed to Black radio. That's why, starting in 1976, Capitol used red labels for soul records and orange for pop/rock. The practice ended in 1980, or right around the time Arnold left the label and went to CBS.

[soulster]

BACK.

Also, Lou Rawls was on MGM when he recorded A NATURAL MAN.

Ah! You're right! I'll fix that!

[mark speck]

Bettye Swann did record for Capitol proper..."Don't Touch Me" is on Capitol [[good flip side, too..."[[My Heart Is) Closed For the Season").

Best,

Mark

[zebop]

I don't know if a R&B comp from Capitol is going to be all that interesting. If pressed I'd want one from roughly 73-87, preferably a 3 CD set featuring acts like Nancy Wilson, the Tavares and later Freddie Jackson and that stuff from that label that was making noise for about 3 years.

[soulster]

I don't know if a R&B comp from Capitol is going to be all that interesting. If pressed I'd want one from roughly 73-87, preferably a 3 CD set featuring acts like Nancy Wilson, the Tavares and later Freddie Jackson and that stuff from that label that was making noise for about 3 years.

Capitol was never much of an R&B label. The only one that's worse is MCA before they bought ABC in 1978. But, they did put out some great R&B during the 60s, 70s, and 80s.

[marv2]

Easy, on side 1. Put all of Nat King Cole's greatest hits and on side 2, put all of Natalie Cole's greatest hits and call it a day! hehehehehehehehe.......

[daddyacey]

I could think of a lot of rarities that could be included on a disc #3 of 80's tracks............such as George Clinton's ," Atomic Dog", Brass Construction "Walking The Line", Skyy's "Giving It To You", Ashford and Simpson's "High Rise" and "Solid" ,Melissa Morgans "Do Me" , Melba Moore , High Fashion , Portrait , Mystic Merlin, The McCrary's "It's You" with Stevie on harmonica, Minnie's "Memory Lane" and some Peobo Bryson. Too bad we don't have some input in projects like these. I guess some of us are to old to be considered "producers" of catalog compilations, we got the research all ready done!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[jsmith]

RE: I don't know if a R&B comp from Capitol is going to be all that interesting
Well we've already had 4 or 5 of em here in the UK & they all sold REAALLLYYYY WEEELLLLL [[Capitol Collectables, Capitol Classics, etc).
If I was to put one together, I'd have to include a few Fame tracks issued on the Capitol label itself, but I'd have to check just which ones were first [[as they were all released on UK Capitol, unlike in the US).
MY SELECTIONS .......... would include tracks by Peobo Bryson, High Fashion, Peggi Bleu, Pieces of A Dream [[? same), Beau Williams, O'Jays [[? any actually on Capitol or were all on EMI America), Cheryl Lynn [[? same), Najee [[? same), Lillo Thomas, Taste of Honey, Barbara Acklin, Bettye Swan, Adlibs, Rance Allen, Tavares [[at least 2 tracks off their Madam Butterfly LP), Ernie Andrews, Ashford & Simpson, H B Barnum, Keith Barrow, King Curtis, Lou Rawls, Gloria Jones, Bobby Sheen, Ruben Wright, Alexander Patton, Magnificent Men, Billy Preston, Patrice Holloway, Joe Odum, Candi Staton, the Tams, etc. etc.
SO I'D HAVE TROUBLE FILLING ONE ALBUM BY THE LOOKS OF IT [[I'd need 3 or 4 at least).

[jsmith]

BTW, I also meant to include "Joy & Pain" by F B & Maze plus stuff from Sheree Brown, Persuasions, Skylark, Jimmy Witherspoon & lots more.

[roger]

RE: I don't know if a R&B comp from Capitol is going to be all that interesting
Well we've already had 4 or 5 of em here in the UK & they all sold REAALLLYYYY WEEELLLLL [[Capitol Collectables, Capitol Classics, etc).
If I was to put one together, I'd have to include a few Fame tracks issued on the Capitol label itself, but I'd have to check just which ones were first [[as they were all released on UK Capitol, unlike in the US).
MY SELECTIONS .......... would include tracks by Peobo Bryson, High Fashion, Peggi Bleu, Pieces of A Dream [[? same), Beau Williams, O'Jays [[? any actually on Capitol or were all on EMI America), Cheryl Lynn [[? same), Najee [[? same), Lillo Thomas, Taste of Honey, Barbara Acklin, Bettye Swan, Adlibs, Rance Allen, Tavares [[at least 2 tracks off their Madam Butterfly LP), Ernie Andrews, Ashford & Simpson, H B Barnum, Keith Barrow, King Curtis, Lou Rawls, Gloria Jones, Bobby Sheen, Ruben Wright, Alexander Patton, Magnificent Men, Billy Preston, Patrice Holloway, Joe Odum, Candi Staton, the Tams, etc. etc.
SO I'D HAVE TROUBLE FILLING ONE ALBUM BY THE LOOKS OF IT [[I'd need 3 or 4 at least).

Indeed JSmith!!

And in addition to those "Capitol Rare" collections there was also the "Capitol Disco" Double CD set .. which covered the "funkier" end of "disco" from the late '70s ..

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Capitol-Disco-Various-Artists/dp/B000PC6XY0

And .. quite a lot of goodies havn't yet got mentioned from the likes of FREDA PAYNE, THE REFLECTIONS and THE SYLVERS.

Plus there was this killer mid '70s falsetto ballad from TOMORROWS PROMISE .. "You're Sweet You're Fine, You're Everything" ..

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P1ms8kRCNMo

A fantastic '80s Soul/Dance track .. WILLIE COLLINS - "Where You Gonna Be Tonight" ..

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sb3gsCnd8bk

We could probably fill a dozen CDs !! :)

Roger

[brother_love]

Thelma Houston & Merry Clayton

[soulster]

RE: I don't know if a R&B comp from Capitol is going to be all that interesting
Well we've already had 4 or 5 of em here in the UK & they all sold REAALLLYYYY WEEELLLLL [[Capitol Collectables, Capitol Classics, etc).
If I was to put one together, I'd have to include a few Fame tracks issued on the Capitol label itself, but I'd have to check just which ones were first [[as they were all released on UK Capitol, unlike in the US).
MY SELECTIONS .......... would include tracks by Peobo Bryson, High Fashion, Peggi Bleu, Pieces of A Dream [[? same), Beau Williams, O'Jays [[? any actually on Capitol or were all on EMI America), Cheryl Lynn [[? same), Najee [[? same), Lillo Thomas, Taste of Honey, Barbara Acklin, Bettye Swan, Adlibs, Rance Allen, Tavares [[at least 2 tracks off their Madam Butterfly LP), Ernie Andrews, Ashford & Simpson, H B Barnum, Keith Barrow, King Curtis, Lou Rawls, Gloria Jones, Bobby Sheen, Ruben Wright, Alexander Patton, Magnificent Men, Billy Preston, Patrice Holloway, Joe Odum, Candi Staton, the Tams, etc. etc.
SO I'D HAVE TROUBLE FILLING ONE ALBUM BY THE LOOKS OF IT [[I'd need 3 or 4 at least).

Well, here in the U.S., domestic Capitol comps of R&B are rare. They mostly have been rock/pop or easy listening. There have been a scanty few, and I have them. They have great tracks by Minnie Ripperton and Tavares, and artists who were not on the proper Capitol label, but on companies acquired by EMI, like United Artists.

[robb_k]

4685
Nat King Cole, Thelma Houston, Patrice Holloway, Drew-vels, Patti Drew, King Curtis, H.B. Barnum, Bobby Sheen, Chubby & Turnpikes, Nancy Wilson, Magnificent Men, Merry Clayton, Lou Rawls, Cannonball Adderly, Revlons, Cadillacs, Imperials, Uniques Robert Mosley, Hal & Jean, Kenny Fox, Jill Harris, Mad Lads, Enjoyables, Ernie Andrews, Tina & Mustangs, Tommy Hunt, Verdelle Smith, Daisies, Thrills, Billy Preston, Bettye Swan, Checkmates, Barbara & Believers, Marion Love, Barbara Mercer, Kris Peterson, Jades, Sweet Things, Ann Duquesny, Tommy Mosely, Champions

[soulster]

4685
Nat King Cole, Thelma Houston, Patrice Holloway, Drew-vels, Patti Drew, King Curtis, H.B. Barnum, Bobby Sheen, Chubby & Turnpikes, Nancy Wilson, Magnificent Men, Merry Clayton, Lou Rawls, Cannonball Adderly, Revlons, Cadillacs, Imperials, Uniques Robert Mosley, Hal & Jean, Kenny Fox, Jill Harris, Mad Lads, Enjoyables, Ernie Andrews, Tina & Mustangs, Tommy Hunt, Verdelle Smith, Daisies, Thrills, Billy Preston, Bettye Swan, Checkmates, Barbara & Believers, Marion Love, Barbara Mercer, Kris Peterson, Jades, Sweet Things, Ann Duquesny, Tommy Mosely, Champions

When was Billy Preston on Capitol? He was on Apple, but the thread starter only wanted people on the proper Capitol label.

[robb_k]

When was Billy Preston on Capitol? He was on Apple, but the thread starter only wanted people on the proper Capitol label.
4686
He was with Capitol Records in 1966-67. He had 3-4 singles released.

[robb_k]

4687
Here are some others: Bishops, Calvin Grayson, Jerry Cook, Rainbows[[Jewell Akins' group), Bobby Paris, Round Robin, Rubin Mitchell, Ruben Wright, Jean Shepherd, Alexander Patton, Benny Gordon, Edna McGriff, Marion Montgomery, Rubin Williams

[jsmith]

RE: He was with Capitol Records in 1966-67. He had 3-4 singles released.

.. AND an album >>> 'Wildest Organ In Town' it was called [[I've got a UK copy of it here somewhere). Produced by Sly Stone.
He was really well known in UK soul circles by the mid 60's coz of the 45 "Billy's Bag".
BTW, His Capitol LP was reissued in France [[on EMI's budget MFP label) in the mid 70's when he was having big hits for A&M.

[mark speck]

When was Kris Peterson on Capitol? I just know the local Detroit labels she was on!

Best,

Mark

[robb_k]

When was Kris Peterson on Capitol? I just know the local Detroit labels she was on!

Best,

Mark
4701
One of her Top Dog records was leased to Capitol for national distribution [["Mama's Little Baby" on Capitol 2014).

Does Kris still post on SDF?

[zebop]

Well, here in the U.S., domestic Capitol comps of R&B are rare. They mostly have been rock/pop or easy listening. There have been a scanty few, and I have them. They have great tracks by Minnie Ripperton and Tavares, and artists who were not on the proper Capitol label, but on companies acquired by EMI, like United Artists.

Yep, that's how they eeked out those jazz/fusion comps in the '90s and 2000's, stuff from Blue Note--when it was part of United Artists.

[robb_k]

4702
There's also a lot of good '60s Soul on their Tower and Uptown subsidiaries, that should come out on any Capitol Soul Compilation. Perhaps after Ace/Kent finish covering Motown, they can approach the majors to suggest they target their Soul product? Of course, I'd be willing to help with the research and label scans. Warner Brothers/Loma/Reprise/7 Arts/Warwick/Challenge/Valient, Atlantic, etc. and ABC/AmPar/APT/Duke/Peacock/Back Beat/Sure Shot/Bluesway/Tangerine. etc. and MCA/Decca/Brunswick/Coral/Uni/Revue/Kapp/Congress, London, etc. and Mercury [[and all its labels, RCA and all its labels, Columbia and all its labels, MGM and all its labels, Polygram and all its labels etc.. etc. would ALL be good candidates.

[platters81]

good call on 60ts Nancy Wilson.....a few years ago i mentioned some real good lp only tunes better known by other artists on a Soul Talk forum thread...such as "Player play on " [[Norman Ricketts)..."Reach out for me" [[Lou Johnson)...."You better go" [[Derek Martin)

[soulster]

Yep, that's how they eeked out those jazz/fusion comps in the '90s and 2000's, stuff from Blue Note--when it was part of United Artists.

Notice I said R&B, not jazz.

[jsmith]

Capitol had so much soul in 1966 that EMI even invented a new marketing slogan to brand the 45's with here in the UK ....
..... all Capitol soul 45's that year were in the 'Discotheque 66' series ....
.... meanwhile back in the US of A ....
4710

[soulster]

Capitol had so much soul in 1966 that EMI even invented a new marketing slogan to brand the 45's with here in the UK ....
..... all Capitol soul 45's that year were in the 'Discotheque 66' series ....
.... meanwhile back in the US of A ....
4710

Note that this was in relation to everything they had previously released in the R&B market to that point, that it was relative to the pop market, which included the Beach Boys and The Beatles, and, again, was waaaaayyy back in 1966.

By around that same year, what was called R&B by the likes of Lou Rawls and Nancy Wilson were not seen as R&B anymore. They had been replaced by the R&B fans with soul music from Jackie Wilson, Aretha Franklin, James Brown, Sly & The Family Stone, The Chambers Brothers, Otis Redding, The Dells, Peaches & Herb, and scores of other "hip" artists that represented what the younger crowd wanted to hear. All those, and more, were up against what Capitol had on it's roster.

Now, the major labels just didn't "get" R&B/soul music, but, what most of them had was far more than what EMI [[Capitol's parent company) had. Capitol fared much better in the pop and jazz category.

[Boogiedown]

Others:


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=63LbMQTxS_Y

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=77LrQEbBk8o

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DPTXMWcnOI0

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fn4UIxHgnEU

[roger]

Note that this was in relation to everything they had previously released in the R&B market to that point, that it was relative to the pop market, which included the Beach Boys and The Beatles, and, again, was waaaaayyy back in 1966.

By around that same year, what was called R&B by the likes of Lou Rawls and Nancy Wilson were not seen as R&B anymore. They had been replaced by the R&B fans with soul music from Jackie Wilson, Aretha Franklin, James Brown, Sly & The Family Stone, The Chambers Brothers, Otis Redding, The Dells, Peaches & Herb, and scores of other "hip" artists that represented what the younger crowd wanted to hear. All those, and more, were up against what Capitol had on it's roster.

Now, the major labels just didn't "get" R&B/soul music, but, what most of them had was far more than what EMI [[Capitol's parent company) had. Capitol fared much better in the pop and jazz category.

Well .. you are obviously quite correct Soulster in saying that back in the '60s Capitol didn't have much success with R&B/Soul and catered more for the "Pop"/"Jazz" market .. but that doesn't mean to say that they didn't RELEASE anything worthwhile .. I would say that they just didn't know how to MARKET it.

Back in the mid 1970's one of the first "Northern Soul" compilations issued in Britain was a Capitol compilation .. "Capitol Soul Casino" .. being aimed at the "Northern Soul" crowd it mainly comprised of '60s Soul/R&B .. here is the track listing ..

http://www.discogs.com/Various-Capitol-Soul-Casino/release/2926485

Things were starting to change for the label around that time [[1975/6), in terms of commercial R&B success with current releases by the likes of NATALIE COLE, TAVARES and THE SYLVERS becoming big selling records .. but then are "big selling records" the whole story? Is a group who has [[say) two records, each of which sell a million, necessarily "better" than an act that had two releases neither of which sold more than a few thousand, or is it just that the marketing men knew how to handle them?

There were plenty of good Soul/R&B tracks released on Capitol in the mid/late '60s and into the early '70s .. the Goldmine compilation "Soothers and Movers" was based around Capitol and its associated labels and contains 12 tracks from the Capitol label itself.

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Soothers-Movers-Various-Artists/dp/B0000083TM

None of those 12 tracks exactly got record shop sales assistants working overtime when they first came out .. but it doesn't mean to say they didn't exist!!

Roger

[jsmith]

AND the terms of selection here disbars about half of all the soul tracks that Capitol released .........
... it was stipulated that choices couldn't be made from tracks released on Fame, Tower, Uptown, EMI America, Manhattan and a number of other sub labels.
If we are trying to ID the most inept major at securing soul hits back in the mid 60's ....... then the prize surely has to go to RCA. They recorded & released / bought in loads of soul tracks but failed to effectively market nearly every single soul 45 & LP they put out. They focused a bit better in the 70's & managed to secure stronger sales then ........ BUT for about 8 years their Promo Dept. people were woeful at pushing soul tracks.

[soulster]

Well .. you are obviously quite correct Soulster in saying that back in the '60s Capitol didn't have much success with R&B/Soul and catered more for the "Pop"/"Jazz" market .. but that doesn't mean to say that they didn't RELEASE anything worthwhile .. I would say that they just didn't know how to MARKET it.

Again, the market changed. It got younger. The artists that they did have just didn't sell very well. They did sign artists like Ohio Players, but they didn't go anywhere. Marketing was a big part of it. It wasn't until the early 70s that the majors decided to create departments for the music, which was bad in and of itself. That means those departments didn't get much of a budget, and the music was marketed to Black radio, not pop, where it once had a shot. It's a wonder that soul music still found it's way to pop radio at all in the 70s. The emergence of TV shows like Soul Train, and the new disco phenomenon were responsible for that. Without those two factors, the masses probably never would have enjoyed "Pillow Talk" by Sylvia, "I'll Be Around" by Spinners, or a lot of huge hits and artists of the day.


Back in the mid 1970's one of the first "Northern Soul" compilations issued in Britain was a Capitol compilation .. "Capitol Soul Casino" .. being aimed at the "Northern Soul" crowd it mainly comprised of '60s Soul/R&B .. here is the track listing ..

American soul music always did better in the U.K. than in it's native country. For those songs on that first comp you posted: only two of those made a significant dent here in the states, and "Nobody but Me" was a pop hit. It didn't even make it to the R&B chart! That's because Americans were in a different place. Again, American R&B was into James Brown, Aretha Franklin, The Temptations, The Dells, and the newer funk sounds. That obscure stuff you guys listened to in the U.K. was a whole different bag.


Things were starting to change for the label around that time [[1975/6), in terms of commercial R&B success with current releases by the likes of NATALIE COLE, TAVARES and THE SYLVERS becoming big selling records .. but then are "big selling records" the whole story? Is a group who has [[say) two records, each of which sell a million, necessarily "better" than an act that had two releases neither of which sold more than a few thousand, or is it just that the marketing men knew how to handle them?

Like I said, things changed for the label starting in late 1975. Natalie Cole and Tavares, as I mentioned, were marketed towards POP radio. That's why they succeeded. Natalie Cole's "This Will Be" was seen as a throwback to an earlier time period. Sure it was an R&B hit! The producers took her back to church! Not only did she have the chops, but she sounded different, and her name didn't hurt, either! The song also hit the Billboard Top 10. Tavares succeeded because, while it wasn't disco, it sure had that vibe and was played in discos. It also sounded fresh and new, even though the family band had been on the Capitol label for a couple of years by then, and had a couple of soul hits under their belts. In 1976, Larkin Arnold took over their Soul Music division and things heated up for the soul side of the label. But, again, there was that little thing called disco that helped the music reach the masses. BTW, it seems Capitol was quite a conservative company in the 70s. They didn't get into hard rock, either. That didn't happen until the 80s.


There were plenty of good Soul/R&B tracks released on Capitol in the mid/late '60s and into the early '70s .. the Goldmine compilation "Soothers and Movers" was based around Capitol and its associated labels and contains 12 tracks from the Capitol label itself.

One more time: That stuff didn't do so great stateside. To create a Capitol comp with this material would have to be an uphill battle. First, a major conglomerate controls the stuff. second, the labels don't like to license stuff unless they can be assured of a certain amount of units sold. Third, the comp would have to have just enough tracks to appeal to the mass consumer, and that means almost filling it up with well-worn hits. Of course, I am speaking from a U.S. perspective where all of those things are true. The U.K. may get away with it.

The tiny sliver of hardcore collectors here would certainly buy it, but I have mentioned this before, and it goes ignored, that this is one of the problems with forums like this that involve two different countries and cultures. One has a totally different perspective than the other. The truth is that the U.S. just didn't experience this "Northern Soul" music as the Brits did. You might say that the U.S. listened to the "A" side, and the U.K. flipped the records over. The U.K. went back and listened to what the U.S. had left behind. While you guys were listening to 60s R&B, and we had moved on to 70s funk.


http://www.amazon.co.uk/Soothers-Movers-Various-Artists/dp/B0000083TM

None of those 12 tracks exactly got record shop sales assistants working overtime when they first came out .. but it doesn't mean to say they didn't exist!!

The OP suggested a Capitol Records R&B comp. Sure, we could do it from a U.K. perspective, but if you are going to present some sort of overview of a major record company's output, you have to have the hits to make the sale. I could sit here and create a nice little box set of about three or four discs, but that wouldn't satisfy you. Again, there is a cultural divide that can't be ignored. You may as well do one for the U.K. audience and the hardcore collectors here will order it. We could do a U.S. box and it will have to have hits. It would have to be defined by a narrower set of standards of what R&B/soul is, but would not satisfy the hardcore collectors that prefer the lesser-known sides.

-The Ugly American :)

[soulster]

If we are trying to ID the most inept major at securing soul hits back in the mid 60's ....... then the prize surely has to go to RCA. They recorded & released / bought in loads of soul tracks but failed to effectively market nearly every single soul 45 & LP they put out. They focused a bit better in the 70's & managed to secure stronger sales then ........ BUT for about 8 years their Promo Dept. people were woeful at pushing soul tracks.

I still think Warner Brothers was worse, but RCA was better starting in 1969, even though The Friends Of Distinction were a POP group, and marketed as a POP group along the lines of The Fifth Dimension. RCA eventually lined up The New Birth and The Main Ingredient to represent. It wasn't until 1976, when the disco fad took off that the WB brass realized they needed to really capitalize on soul music. I guess that, since WB was part of a conglomerate that had Atlantic, they could do without. Hmmmm...now that I think about it, Asylum was the absolute soulless label. They were country-rock all the way.

[roger]

I still think Warner Brothers was worse, but RCA was better starting in 1969, even though The Friends Of Distinction were a POP group, and marketed as a POP group along the lines of The Fifth Dimension. RCA eventually lined up The New Birth and The Main Ingredient to represent. It wasn't until 1976, when the disco fad took off that the WB brass realized they needed to really capitalize on soul music. I guess that, since WB was part of a conglomerate that had Atlantic, they could do without. Hmmmm...now that I think about it, Asylum was the absolute soulless label. They were country-rock all the way.

Well Soulster .. I'm going to have to sleep on your response to my post .. as you say there is a big "cultural divide" between the U.S. and U.K. but I don't think that your understanding of the differences [[as far as it concerns Soul/R&B music) it is quite the same as mine.

AND .. I would go along with JSmith in giving the "Prize for Ineptitude" in the mid/late '60s to R.C.A. .. they had some FANTASTIC releases in the 1960's .. all those "Pied Piper" releases for example .. and only seemed to pick up in the early '70s R&B wise with their success with THE MAIN INGREDIENT and THE FRIENDS OF DISTINCTION .. my theory is that they just didn't understand how marketing Soul/R&B records [[in the U.S.) had changed since all of their early '60s success with SAM COOKE.

Roger

[soulster]

Well Soulster .. I'm going to have to sleep on your response to my post .. as you say there is a big "cultural divide" between the U.S. and U.K. but I don't think that your understanding of the differences [[as far as it concerns Soul/R&B music) it is quite the same as mine.


Well, today, when we both can go on an international internet forum and discuss our shared love of R&B, the differences aren't as wide, but back then, they were apparently different. That is not to say that the then-contemporary U.S. R&B didn't make it in the U.K., it just wasn't very much in relation to what else there was out there.


AND .. I would go along with JSmith in giving the "Prize for Ineptitude" in the mid/late '60s to R.C.A. .. they had some FANTASTIC releases in the 1960's .. all those "Pied Piper" releases for example .. and only seemed to pick up in the early '70s R&B wise with their success with THE MAIN INGREDIENT and THE FRIENDS OF DISTINCTION .. my theory is that they just didn't understand how marketing Soul/R&B records [[in the U.S.) had changed since all of their early '60s success with SAM COOKE.

We could put both RCA and Warner Brothers, and even add Elektra to the list. They had virtually NO soul music artists on their rosters in the mid-to-late 60s. There were few, if anyone at those labels who knew how to break into the market. Labels like Atlantic, Motown, Stax, and dozens of small independent labels had the market. The Harvard Institute published a famous study they did for the major record labels on the state of the R&B market of the late 60s and early 70s, and how the majors could capitalize on it. Some of the labels, like CBS, did follow some of the recommendations. While they didn't buy up soul labels, they entered into distribution deals that were, except for Stax, quite lucrative for both parties. They created soul music divisions which proved to have disastrous effects in many cases. And, as what happens in corporations with shareholders, it became all about profits, the bottom line, and not understanding the consumer.

Speaking of MCA. most of us are now familiar with the story of The Average White Band, right? They were originally signed to MCA in 1973. They did the album "Show Your Hand", a fantastic debut album by this all-White Scottish band who loved soul music, and played it like seasoned Black men. When the album tanked, they recorded their second album and played it at an A&R meeting. The brass at MCA told them that they needed to go "country" because that's where popular music was headed in 1973! At the time, MCA was all about country music. Their second biggest stars were Olivia Newton-John, Cher, and Elton John, plus a bunch of country artists. They had just lost Neil Diamond to Columbia a year earlier. Anyway, AWB asked to be released from their contract, and asked for their master tapes. MCA gave it to them and released them. The band then went to a party where they knew Ahmet Ertegun would be, and hit him up to hear their tape. The band always wanted to be on Atlantic anyway because that's where all their favorite soul records were recorded. We know the rest of the story. But, that goes to show you the extent to which the majors didn't have a clue.

CBS already had their foot in the door with R&B, so when Clive Davis took over, it wasn't too hard for him to enter into deals with The Isley Brothers and Kenny Gamble and Leon Huff, Stax, and sign bands like Earth, Wind & Fire, and to let them do their thing. The problems for CBS's Black roster slowly developed when Davis left the label. But, that's another whole enchilada, and I digress.

In the mid-60s, when The Beatles and the British Invasion came in, RCA was kind of twisting in the wind where pop and R&B was concerned. All they really had that was solid was country music and show tunes after Elvis' popularity waned. They had some rock success with The Jefferson Airplane, but not much else. It's interesting to note that the hardest rock band RCA ever had until the 90s[[!) was a Black metal band called Mother's Finest! Of course, one album and they went to Epic and was "encouraged" to record straight-ahead soul music, not what they really wanted to do, BTW.

[robb_k]

4713
Warner Brothers had a LOT of great Soul on its Loma Subsidiary in the mid '60s. RCA had some on its Groove subsidiary [[but none of it made hits).

[roger]

4713
Warner Brothers had a LOT of great Soul on its Loma Subsidiary in the mid '60s. RCA had some on its Groove subsidiary [[but none of it made hits).

Hmm .. I was thinking of mentioning Loma in my last post!!

Anyway, back to Soulster's views on the subject ..


To create a Capitol comp with this material would have to be an uphill battle. First, a major conglomerate controls the stuff. second, the labels don't like to license stuff unless they can be assured of a certain amount of units sold. Third, the comp would have to have just enough tracks to appeal to the mass consumer, and that means almost filling it up with well-worn hits. Of course, I am speaking from a U.S. perspective where all of those things are true. The U.K. may get away with it.

Well, of course, we now live in an internet world where international boundaries don't count for as much as they once did when it comes to marketing music .. U.S. retailers such as Dustygroove, Soulmusic.com and Amazon routinely stock U.K. releases, and U.K. retailers such as HMV and Amazon.co.uk routinely stock U.S. releases, if I wish I can order from Dustygroove, if Soulster wishes he can order from Amazon.co.uk .. and people in Singapore, Australia, Denmark, Finland or Timbuktu can order from either.

As a result I see no reason why any Capitol compilation should be specifically designed for one market or the other. Organisations like Hip-o-Select have been releasing material aimed at an "international" audience for the past decade, in particular the TCMS sets, and seem to have been doing fine.

And .. why should there be any difference between a Capitol set aimed at the U.S. and U.K. anyway .. lets say a Capitol collection of 1965-1977 recordings were issued .. and lets say it had the following 20 tracks .. roughly in order of release ..

THELMA HOUSTON - "Baby Mine"
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=it8JgbowXqc

ALEXANDER PATTON - "A Little Loving Sometimes"
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IjbstpniYkY

JERRY COOK - "I Hurt On The Other Side"
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zHJSNHwjffI

LOU RAWLS - "Love Is A Hurting Thing"
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l_k3ViEqopY

PATRICE HOLLOWAY - "Stolen Hours"
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c_ap1bI4urE

BOBBY SHEEN - "Sweet Sweet Love"
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wd9xJghIGFs

NANCY WILSON - "Face It Girl, It's Over"
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S-Pj7cjjTmE

LEON HAYWOOD - "Consider The Source"
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-LFycvztrbc

FREDDIE TERRELL - "You Had It Made"
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YoPBTUtO9SY

DORIS TROY - "Face Up To The Truth"
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6DI0PqFdKs8

BETTYE SWANN - "I'm Lonely For You"
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ivmgndztSbg

BROWN SUGAR - "The Game Is Over"
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mY9R3vRo4h4

BARBARA ACKLIN - "Raindrops"
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hClmGXydHVI

REFLECTIONS - "Day After Day"
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B_CURQXm0mE

BARRETT STRONG - "Surrender"
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kQ3EDTVm8uI

TAVARES - "It Only Takes A Minute"
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hPAL8HVE4yQ&feature=fvst

SYLVERS - "Hot Line"
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8ZL4lacUxoQ

NATALIE COLE - "I've Got Love On My Mind"
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rD1sYh3A9jg

FREDA PAYNE - "I Can't Live On a Memory"
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PMWpWgcZFWI

RANCE ALLEN - "Reason To Survive"
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0-lzD6xBEVU

Well, it looks musically quite varied to me, within the confines of Soul/R&B, some Motownesque tunes, some that veer towards Disco, some veer towards Jazz. There is even a gospel track there!!

It has some "less well known" tunes by "Well Known" artists, FREDA PAYNE, BARBARA ACKLIN, THELMA HOUSTON.

It has some obscure artists .. FREDDIE TERRELL, ALEXANDER PATTON.

It even has some huge U.S. "Pop" hits .. LOU RAWLS, SYLVERS, TAVARES, NATALE COLE.

What it DOESN'T have are any recordings that actually troubled the U.K. "Pop" Top 50. Which brings me to my next point ..


American soul music always did better in the U.K. than in it's native country.
I can't for the life of me think why you think that Soulster ..

We were actually quite slow to latch onto "Soul" here. In the formative years of "Soul" .. 1962-1966 .. there were very few U.S. "Soul" records that made it big in Britain .. the "Pop" charts were dominated by THE BEATLES, ROLLING STONES, HOLLIES, SEARCHERS, GENE PITNEY, BEACH BOYS etc. Dozens of HUGE U.S. "Pop" hits that happened to be "Soul" we totally missed out on .. ones that immediately come to mind are BARBARA LEWIS - "Hello Stranger", IMPRESSIONS - "Its All Right", CAPITOLS -"Cool Jerk", MARVELETTES - "Don't Mess With Bill", JUNIOR WALKER - "Shotgun", LITTLE ANTHONY - "Going Out of My Head", SUPREMES – “My World Is empty without You”.

"Soul" in Britain in 1964/5 may well have been popular amongst those who went to discotheques, and there were some "Soul" tunes that became big hits .. SUPREMES - "Where Did Our Love Go", FONTELLA BASS - "Rescue Me", and MARY WELLS - "My Guy" come to mind, also "offshore" radio stations like London and Caroline used to mix in a fair proportion of "Soul" records .. but as a general rule the great British public was much more interested in screaming at likely lads from Liverpool than in tracking down the latest release from [[say) MAJOR LANCE.

Things started to change somewhat around the end of 1966 when Motown started to make big inroads into the British charts with songs like FOUR TOPS - “Reach Out I’ll Be There”, SUPREMES – “You Can’t Hurry Love”, JIMMY RUFFIN – “What Becomes Of The Brokenhearted”, and during 1965/6 the Stax sound started to take off [[though the releases in Britain were all on the Atlantic label at that stage). However even through 1967/8 there were still huge U.S. “Pop” hits that happened to be “Soul” that totally missed out in Britain as far as Joe Public was concerned.

What happened in Britain is that sometime around 1968 a general backlash against the increasing introspectiveness and pomposity of much of the “Pop/Rock” music of the time started to take serious hold on the nation’s youth. Many people just weren’t interested in hearing about Walruses and Silver Hammers, or the antics of White Rabbits, they wanted carefree rhythms to dance to and started to delve back in time to the “Soul” tunes they had missed out on in 1963/4/5/6. There was the great “Soul Re-issue” boom which started in 1969 and I would say it is THAT period that has led to the British attitude to “Soul”.

For me, all of a sudden in 1969 “Soul” records ceased to be novelty items intended to grace the airwaves [[or dancefloors) for a month or two before being forgotten and replaced with something new, they became timeless classics to be treasured for ever. It ceased to be important whether a record was recorded six days or six years previously. It ceased to be important whether the record had been a “Hit” at the time of issue .. there was no longer any real correlation between how “good” a record was and how many copies it had sold when it was first issued.

AND .. throughout the early ‘70s there were still a lot of big U.S. “Pop” hits that happened to be Soul that totally missed out in Britain. AND, although there were usually a few “Soul” songs in the higher reaches of the British “Pop” charts they were just as likely to have been recorded in 1966 as in [[say) 1972. Many “Soul” records would sell slowly and steadily over the years [[remember .. they were timeless classics) without getting air-play or any chart positions. No doubt some of these “Soul” records outsold pop/novelty “chart” hits, where sales were concentrated in six or eight weeks, but even so, in the early/mid ‘70s the U.S. “Pop” charts seemed to be much more in tune with “Soul” than the U.K. ones.

Roger

[roger]

I can't see any mention yet on this thread of the two "Something For The Weekend" C.D.s that came out on Stateside U.K. in 2000 .. they were essentially compilations of Early/Mid '80s Capitol dance floor favourites.

Volume 1 [[which I think is ALL Capitol) ..

MAZE - "Joy & Pain"
MYSTIC MERLIN - "Can't Give You Up"
McCRARYS - "Love On A Summer Night"
LANIER & CO - "Dancing In The Night"
DAYTON - "The Sound Of Music"
BB&Q BAND - "On The Beat"
FULL CIRCLE - "Working Up A Sweat"
MEL'ISA MORGAN - "Fool's Paradise"
MELBA MOORE - "Love's Coming At Ya"
PAUL LAURENCE - "There Ain't Nothing Like Your Loving"
ASHFORD & SIMPSON - "Solid"
FREDDIE JACKSON - "Rock Me Tonight"

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Something-Weekend-Vol-1-Extended-Weekender/dp/B0001LVZC0

Volume 2 included a few tracks from United Artists, Blue-Note and T.K.

RONNIE LAWS - "Always There"
DONALD BYRD - "Dominoes"
INCOGNITO - "Parisienne Girl"
EDDIE HENDERSON - "Prance On"
MAZE - "Too Many Games"
GARY BARTZ - "Music Is My Sanctuary"
O'BRYAN - "Doing All Right"
MYSTIC MERLIN - "Mr Magician"
DAYTON - "Promise Me"
WILLIE "BEAVER" HALE - "Groove On"
GENE DUNLAP - "It's Just The Way I Feel"
MEL'ISA MORGAN - "Do Me Baby"

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Something-Weekend-Vol-2-Various-Artists/dp/B0001LVZCA

Roger

[soulster]

Ashford & Simpson! Forgot all about that one!

[soulster]

Anyway, back to Soulster's views on the subject ..



Well, of course, we now live in an internet world where international boundaries don't count for as much as they once did when it comes to marketing music .. U.S. retailers such as Dustygroove, Soulmusic.com and Amazon routinely stock U.K. releases, and U.K. retailers such as HMV and Amazon.co.uk routinely stock U.S. releases, if I wish I can order from Dustygroove, if Soulster wishes he can order from Amazon.co.uk .. and people in Singapore, Australia, Denmark, Finland or Timbuktu can order from either.

As a result I see no reason why any Capitol compilation should be specifically designed for one market or the other. Organisations like Hip-o-Select have been releasing material aimed at an "international" audience for the past decade, in particular the TCMS sets, and seem to have been doing fine.

And .. why should there be any difference between a Capitol set aimed at the U.S. and U.K. anyway .. lets say a Capitol collection of 1965-1977 recordings were issued .. and lets say it had the following 20 tracks .. roughly in order of release ..

THELMA HOUSTON - "Baby Mine"
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=it8JgbowXqc

ALEXANDER PATTON - "A Little Loving Sometimes"
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IjbstpniYkY

JERRY COOK - "I Hurt On The Other Side"
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zHJSNHwjffI

LOU RAWLS - "Love Is A Hurting Thing"
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l_k3ViEqopY

PATRICE HOLLOWAY - "Stolen Hours"
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c_ap1bI4urE

BOBBY SHEEN - "Sweet Sweet Love"
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wd9xJghIGFs

NANCY WILSON - "Face It Girl, It's Over"
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S-Pj7cjjTmE

LEON HAYWOOD - "Consider The Source"
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-LFycvztrbc

FREDDIE TERRELL - "You Had It Made"
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YoPBTUtO9SY

DORIS TROY - "Face Up To The Truth"
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6DI0PqFdKs8

BETTYE SWANN - "I'm Lonely For You"
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ivmgndztSbg

BROWN SUGAR - "The Game Is Over"
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mY9R3vRo4h4

BARBARA ACKLIN - "Raindrops"
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hClmGXydHVI

REFLECTIONS - "Day After Day"
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B_CURQXm0mE

BARRETT STRONG - "Surrender"
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kQ3EDTVm8uI

TAVARES - "It Only Takes A Minute"
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hPAL8HVE4yQ&feature=fvst

SYLVERS - "Hot Line"
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8ZL4lacUxoQ

NATALIE COLE - "I've Got Love On My Mind"
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rD1sYh3A9jg

FREDA PAYNE - "I Can't Live On a Memory"
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PMWpWgcZFWI

RANCE ALLEN - "Reason To Survive"
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0-lzD6xBEVU


[QUOTE]I can't for the life of me think why you think that Soulster ..

If you lived here in the 70s, you'd know why.

[roger]

If you lived here in the 70s, you'd know why.

Well .. I didn't so I'm still mystified .. :)

Actually Soulster, you are correct in saying that Funk was very slow to take off in Britain .. there were a handful of big sellers in Britain in 1969-72 that were "Funk" .. but apart from Motown Psycho-Soul/Funk items like "Cloud Nine", "Ball Of Confusion" and "War" the only ones that come to mind are RUFUS THOMAS - "Funky Chicken" and ISAAC HAYES - "Shaft". Certainly huge U.S. hits like SLY & THE FAMILY STONE - "Thank You", KING FLOYD - "Groove Me", JOE TEX - "I Gotcha" and JEAN KNIGHT - "Mr Big Stuff" missed out on any chart action here. "It's Your Thing" by THE ISLEY BROTHERS was a moderate success but then that did come out in the middle of a string of Motown re-issue hits that they had throughout 1969, by the time they did "Work To Do" or "Layaway" the reissue hits had dried up and the records only sold to those "in the know".

There was actually quite a big "underground" following for Funk in early/mid 1970's Britain, particularly in and around London, but the genre had difficulty getting airplay. "Sex Machine" by JAMES BROWN hovered around the lower reaches of the U.K. charts for a couple of months in 1970 but I don't recall ever hearing it on any mainstream radio shows. BBC Radio One and Radio Luxembourg only seemed to add "unusual" records to their playlists if they were already in the Top 20. Acts that did "heavy-funk" such as JAMES BROWN, PARLIAMENT/FUNKADELIC or THE OHIO PLAYERS had hardly any chance of getting U.K. airplay.

If I think about it the position of "Funk" in early/mid 1970s Britain was remarkably similar to that of "Soul" ten years previously .. popular amongst people who went to [[certain) Discotheques but generally unknown to Joe Public. Funnily, Britain being Britain, you are much more likely to hear songs like "Mr Big Stuff" being played on the radio in 2012 than you ever were back in 1971!!

Roger

[roger]

Ashford & Simpson! Forgot all about that one!

Yes, the inclusion of "Solid" does somewhat spoil that "Something For The Weekend" compilation doesn't it .. if only they had included the under-rated "High-Rise" instead. I never liked "Solid" much and it's easily my least favourite track on that compilation.

Of course, "Solid" was easily ASHFORD & SIMPSON's biggest U.K. hit .. reaching #3 .. AND .. I see that it was also their biggest ever U.S. success .. being at #1 for 3 weeks on the Billboard R&B listings and getting to #12 on the Hot 100.

So, what do we have here Soulster, you state that to sell in the U.S. such compilations should include "the hits", yet when they do include a huge hit you complain!! You aren't exactly easy to please are you!! :)

Roger

[soulster]

[QUOTE]So, what do we have here Soulster, you state that to sell in the U.S. such compilations should include "the hits", yet when they do include a huge hit you complain!! You aren't exactly easy to please are you!! :)

Ummmm...show me where I stated that! I was simply pointing out that there big cultural differences between the two countries that many Brits seem to forget or ignore, and I can understand why.

[roger]

Soulster .. I was thinking of when you wrote this ..


The OP suggested a Capitol Records R&B comp. Sure, we could do it from a U.K. perspective, but if you are going to present some sort of overview of a major record company's output, you have to have the hits to make the sale.

By the way .. the "Something For The Weekend" compilation was aimed at a U.K. market .. AND it contains a number of "Hits" .. something that goes against what you are assuming is required of a U.K. Soul/R&B compilation, so to me it seems to be more like what you would expect a U.S. release to be like.

For the record .. here are the U.K. chart positions of the tracks on the C.D.

MAZE - "Joy And Pain" - No chart entry .. though a version by DONNA ALLEN got to #10 in 1989.
MYSTIC MERLIN - "Just Can't Give You Up" - #20 in 1981
McCRARY'S - "Love On A Summer Night" - - No chart entry
LANIER & CO - "Dancing In the Night" - No chart entry
DAYTON - "The Sound Of Music" - #75 in 1983 [[as low as you can be and still chart) :)
BB&Q BAND - "On The Beat" - #41 in 1981
FULL CIRCLE - "Working Up A Sweat" - #41 in 1987
MEL'ISA MORGAN - "Fools Paradise" - #41 in 1985
MELBA MOORE - "Love's Coming At Cha" - #15 in 1982
PAUL LAURENCE - "There Ain't Nothing Like Your Loving" - No chart entry
ASHFORD & SIMPSON - "Solid" - #3 in 1985
FREDDIE JACKSON - "Rock Me Tonight" - #18 in 1986

Roger

[soulster]

Soulster .. I was thinking of when you wrote this ..



By the way .. the "Something For The Weekend" compilation was aimed at a U.K. market .. AND it contains a number of "Hits" .. something that goes against what you are assuming is required of a U.K. Soul/R&B compilation, so to me it seems to be more like what you would expect a U.S. release to be like.

For the record .. here are the U.K. chart positions of the tracks on the C.D.

MAZE - "Joy And Pain" - No chart entry .. though a version by DONNA ALLEN got to #10 in 1989.
MYSTIC MERLIN - "Just Can't Give You Up" - #20 in 1981
McCRARY'S - "Love On A Summer Night" - - No chart entry
LANIER & CO - "Dancing In the Night" - No chart entry
DAYTON - "The Sound Of Music" - #75 in 1983 [[as low as you can be and still chart) :)
BB&Q BAND - "On The Beat" - #41 in 1981
FULL CIRCLE - "Working Up A Sweat" - #41 in 1987
MEL'ISA MORGAN - "Fools Paradise" - #41 in 1985
MELBA MOORE - "Love's Coming At Cha" - #15 in 1982
PAUL LAURENCE - "There Ain't Nothing Like Your Loving" - No chart entry
ASHFORD & SIMPSON - "Solid" - #3 in 1985
FREDDIE JACKSON - "Rock Me Tonight" - #18 in 1986

Roger


Roger,

You TOTALLY misunderstood what I have been saying! Only three of those songs you listed above saw any significant chart action in the U.S., and that is stretching it because the BB&Q Band song is kind of pushing it. You have illustrated my point, though. The differences between the U.S. and the U,.K. are significant. A comp aimed at the U.K. market will only fly with most hardcore fans here. That means that here in the states, the hardcore appeal is not enough to justify such a collection without an abundance of the U.S. hits. There are differences in what our respective countries perceive as a hit, and you gave the example in your last post about how Ohio Players, and other harder funk didn't appeal to the Brits, and that Britain was basically 10 years behind what the U.S. was listening to.

[roger]

Well then Soulster .. we have our fair share of "Greatest Hits", "Best Of", "Ultimate" etc. etc. etc. Soul/R&B compilations too .. heavily advertised on T.V. and Radio, and those may well "fly" off the shelves. We are often confonted with "Ultimate Motown", "Soul of Atlantic", "Best Disco of the '70s", etc. etc. etc. compilations aimed at anyone who could use a copy of "Rescue Me"/"Reach Out"/"Tears of a Clown"/"Rock The Boat"/"Thats The way I Like It"/"Rock Your Baby"/"Midnight Hour"/"Respect"/"Baby Love" / "Carwash"/"Le Freak"/"My First, My Last, My Everything" etc. etc. etc. etc. etc.

Here is an "80s Soul" collection from 2008 .. called "Nite Flite", 37 tracks on 2 C.D.s .. at least half the tracks on it were BIG U.K. hits and I think all of them made at least the Top 40.

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Nite-Flite-Various-Artists/dp/B001766CE4

I actually bought this compilation as it was quite cheap and had about 6 or 8 tracks on it I'd not yet got on C.D. Generally I'd not get something like this as I'd have virtually all of the tracks anyway.

The point I was trying to make, though I obviously failed, was that not every U.K. compilation has to packed full of rarities. That "Something For The Weekend" C.D. is a mixture of big hits and a few less known tracks. AND, collections that are full of obscurities are not necessarily going to sell well. They will most probably sell enough to cover the cost of producing them [[otherwise the likes of Kent/Ace would have closed down years back) but they don't "fly" and you would be unlikely to see them in High Street record stores [[what remains of them) or in your local supermarket.

Anyway, in the original post there was no mention of suggesting a collection that would "fly" in the U.S. or in the U.K. for that matter, only something that we would like to see and that might have a "unique" concept.

Roger

[roger]

I don't think anyone has yet made mention of the "Capitol Soul Special" 8 track promo L.P. that came out in the U.K. in 1977.

http://www.discogs.com/Various-Capitol-Soul-Special/release/608555

This contained a mixture of "Soul" and "Jazz-Fusion" tracks and was released at the same time as some 12" E.P. releases by TAVARES, THE SYLVERS and NATALIE COLE in an attempt to broaden interest in the labels new found success with "Soul".

Roger

[jsmith]

the "Capitol Soul Special" 8 track promo L.P. that came out in the U.K. in 1977 + at the same time as some 12" E.P. releases by TAVARES, THE SYLVERS and NATALIE COLE
Roger, I bought copies of each of the above as new releases. Still got them here somewhere. The 8 track promo was / is a very nice item !!!

[roger]

the "Capitol Soul Special" 8 track promo L.P. that came out in the U.K. in 1977 + at the same time as some 12" E.P. releases by TAVARES, THE SYLVERS and NATALIE COLE
Roger, I bought copies of each of the above as new releases. Still got them here somewhere. The 8 track promo was / is a very nice item !!!

JSmith .. I did exactly the same, I think I might still have them all .. I know I still have the SYLVERS and NATALIE COLE 12"s as I recently played them. :)

Roger

[soulster]

Well then Soulster .. we have our fair share of "Greatest Hits", "Best Of", "Ultimate" etc. etc. etc. Soul/R&B compilations too .. heavily advertised on T.V. and Radio, and those may well "fly" off the shelves. We are often confonted with "Ultimate Motown", "Soul of Atlantic", "Best Disco of the '70s", etc. etc. etc. compilations aimed at anyone who could use a copy of "Rescue Me"/"Reach Out"/"Tears of a Clown"/"Rock The Boat"/"Thats The way I Like It"/"Rock Your Baby"/"Midnight Hour"/"Respect"/"Baby Love" / "Carwash"/"Le Freak"/"My First, My Last, My Everything" etc. etc. etc. etc. etc.

We have tons of those comps here too, sold at the local Target ans Wal-mart.


Here is an "80s Soul" collection from 2008 .. called "Nite Flite", 37 tracks on 2 C.D.s .. at least half the tracks on it were BIG U.K. hits and I think all of them made at least the Top 40.

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Nite-Flite-Various-Artists/dp/B001766CE4

And three of those songs were from the 70s. I hate it when they do that!



The point I was trying to make, though I obviously failed, was that not every U.K. compilation has to packed full of rarities. That "Something For The Weekend" C.D. is a mixture of big hits and a few less known tracks. AND, collections that are full of obscurities are not necessarily going to sell well. They will most probably sell enough to cover the cost of producing them [[otherwise the likes of Kent/Ace would have closed down years back) but they don't "fly" and you would be unlikely to see them in High Street record stores [[what remains of them) or in your local supermarket.

And I was looking at it from a marketing standpoint.


Anyway, in the original post there was no mention of suggesting a collection that would "fly" in the U.S. or in the U.K. for that matter, only something that we would like to see and that might have a "unique" concept.

Yes, but it has to be considered. Compilations have to be planned very carefully.

[roger]

And three of those songs were from the 70s. I hate it when they do that!.

Well, actually Soulster .. the compilation isn't actually described as an "80s Soul Collection", that was my description .. I guess that as 34 out of the 37 tracks are from the 1980s it qualifies .. :)


And I was looking at it from a marketing standpoint..

Ugh!! :[[

Roger

[soulster]

Well, actually Soulster .. the compilation isn't actually described as an "80s Soul Collection", that was my description ..

That's better.


Ugh!! :[[

We may not like it, but that's the cold reality. The record industry is still a business.

[jsmith]

Lots of majors [[Capitol, RCA, WB, Atlantic) have been putting out comps of 'old tracks' since the early 70's coz it costs them next to nothing [[& when CD's came in, the whole process was sparked off yet again).
They already own these tracks so have no licensing, buying in, recording costs & the cost of throwing a few of them together & pressing up albums or making CD's is minimal. If they decide to just 'put them out there' without spending promo cash [[& this does work with specialist music genres like soul), then the sales figures don't have to be large for them to easily recoup their investment in these releases.
In 'quiet months' for new material, this can keep in-house pressing plants, CD manufacturing facilities, art & design depts, marketing guys ticking over doing something & not just 'sitting about'.
Many majors even go to the expense of 'hiring in' name DJ's [[Richard Searling, Fat Boy Slim aka Norman Cook, Snowboy, Robbie Vincent -- all UK examples) to better make the content of these releases meet market requirements [[their own in-house A&R staff usually have no idea at all which of their old non-hit tracks are popular).
The hot current trend with regard to UK comps [[for 70's / 80's tracks), is to hire in the likes of Tom Moulton [[or similar) & get him to remix old faves. This way you can sell comps of the same tracks twice -- a comp of the original [[say 12") versions and then a few months later, a comp of the 'new' remixes.
If a major is on the ball [[few really are) they can 'work' their old catalogue to good effect at little cost to themselves.

[soulster]

However, if you want to reissue a top rate comp/boxed set, then you spend the money for tape research, proper mastering, liner notes, artwork, design, marketing...so it still costs some money to create a comp. Let's not forget licensing important songs the company may not have the rights to. Then there is legal clearance for some songs.

[roger]

Well .. look what I've just found .. a digital only compilation called "The Soul Of Capitol Records".

1. A Lil' Lovin' Sometimes Alexander Patton 2:22
2. Crazy Baby Ruben Wright 2:40
3. Kissin' Her And Cryin' For You The Checkmates Ltd. 2:22
4. Baby Mine Thelma Houston 2:35
5. Can't She Tell [[Feat. Sly Stone) Billy Preston 2:53
6. Queen Of The Go Go Rex Garvin 2:17
7. Turn Away From Me Patti Drew 2:11
8. Searchin' For My Soul H. B. Barnum 2:25
9. Groovin' At The Go-Go The Four Larks 2:31
10. Reach Out For Me Willie Tee 3:33
11. Lover And A Friend Eddie Bo And Inez Cheatham 2:37
12. So Is The Sun World Column 2:50
13. Comin' Home Mosaic Tweed 2:29
14. Someone For Everyone Betty And Charles 2:15
15. Uh Huh Yeah The Salty Peppers 2:28
16. Hold On, I'm Comin' General Crook 2:31
17. Three People In Love Mack Rice 3:23
18. Evidence Patrice Holloway 2:30
19. The Writing's On The Wall Skylark 3:01
20. I Believe In Miracles Mark Capanni 3:02

Seems it was "released" last year ...

http://www.amazon.co.uk/The-Soul-Of-Capitol-Records/dp/B004VUSTEE

Best not tell Soulster ... :)

Also I've found this '60s discography of the U.S. Capitol label, which I've been trawling through ..

http://www.eighthavenue.com/capitol.htm

I was wondering what a Capitol collection of Motown tunes might be like ..

I've loved the version of "You Made Me So Very Happy" by LOU RAWLS ever since i first heard it [[confusingly as part of a "Blue-Note" compilation).

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tY_LJr3-jl0

Right near the end there is a version of "These Things Will Keep Me Loving You", [[the VELVELETTES song) by LINDA CARR [[presumably of LOVE SQUAD fame) .. I wonder what it is like ..

http://www.discogs.com/Linda-Carr-Discover-Me-And-Youll-Discover-Love/release/2838244

AND .. there is a version of "Ain't That Peculiar" by BETTYE SWANN .. here it is on You-Tube ..

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WGW7kMq0ieo

Roger

[jsmith]

A UK based specialist label guy has secured [[from Robert Bateman) the rights to a peviously unreleased master - "Seven Days" by Teddy Green [[aka Greene). This is a beat ballad that was set to be released on Capitol in the 60's, but they passed on it. Teddy was a member of The Royal Jokers.
"Seven Days" will be released on a CD album "still OUT ON THE FLOOR TONIGHT" which is the follow up to the 1979 Inferno Records album of the same name -- 33 years to release a follow up is a bit of a wait but there you go!.
They are still sorting out the details of the full track listing but all being well they will also release a limited edition 6 track 10" sampler from the album, and "Seven Days" will be one of the tracks.

[roger]

Well, it looks that my idea of a Capitol-Motown set could be a non starter due to lack of material.

There is the version of "Uptight" by NANCY WILSON ..

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nmA3vd5l0-A&feature=related

And an intriguing looking version of "Mickeys Monkey" by a group called THE MAC TRUQUE

http://itsgreatshakes.blogspot.co.uk/2006/06/mac-truque-mickeys-monkey-capitol.html

I wonder what that one sounds like ..

I was thinking of suggesting the those remakes of "Money" and "You've Really Got A Hold On Me" by THE BEATLES .. but they weren't issued originally on Capitol in the U.S. as the marketing "experts" at Capitol thought they would never sell .. :)

However .. in a very similar vein there is a version of "Needle In A Haystack" by an Australian group called THE TWILIGHTS ..

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=37BBmRnJnwY

And of course there is still the '70s and '80s to consider .. such as the O'BRYAN version of "Still Waters"

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=37BBmRnJnwY

Plus L.P. tracks ..

AND .. we could always stretch it a bit and include the DOBIE GRAY version of "River Deep, Mountain High" which is rather good ..

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vhfoYzIrsAE

Though this was recorded way before Motown ever got their artists to sing the song ..

Roger

[Ian Dewhirst]

The hot current trend with regard to UK comps [[for 70's / 80's tracks), is to hire in the likes of Tom Moulton [[or similar) & get him to remix old faves. This way you can sell comps of the same tracks twice -- a comp of the original [[say 12") versions and then a few months later, a comp of the 'new' remixes.



I know exactly what you mean but in the cases of "Philly Regrooved" Vols 1 & 2 and "Philadelphia International Classic: The Tom Moulton Remixes" it was a little bit more organic than just 'hiring in' Tom Moulton [[who isn't easily for hire anyway). The Philly Groove project came about because of my relationship with Reid Whitelaw [[who runs Philly Groove) who I met when I was running the Salsoul reissues in the UK while coincidentally also working with Tom on the Salsoul stuff. So "Philly Re-Grooved" was sparked by Reid getting Tom to re-visit the masters and then having Harmless/Demon in place to put the albums out. So I didn't initially solicit the project is what I'm trying to say LOL...

The current Philadelphia International/Tom Moulton project was very much a three way thing between Reid, Tom and myself and a natural really seeing as Demon control PIR for Europe.

I think it's a good thing to constantly redefine the audience. "Philadelphia International Classics: The Tom Moulton Remixes" is one of the fastest-selling albums I've ever worked on and brought PIR back into the UK Top 30 album chart again for the first time in 30 years which is pretty good for music that's 30-40 years old right?

But back to the question. Yes, of course, there's a rockin' Capitol comp which could appeal to a wider audience but it's really all about the way these packages are marketed, PR'd and sold-in these days. The majority of the innovation in these areas generally comes from the specialist indies these days Numero, Ace/Kent, Dap-Tone etc.

A great seller for an indie specialist wouldn't cause any excitement at a major, where it's really all about numbers and mass audience.

Interesting thread.

Ian D :D

[theboyfromxtown]

However .. in a very similar vein there is a version of "Needle In A Haystack" by an Australian group called THE TWILIGHTS ..

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=37BBmRnJnwY

Roger

Please tell me this is a no-no!

[soulster]

But back to the question. Yes, of course, there's a rockin' Capitol comp which could appeal to a wider audience but it's really all about the way these packages are marketed, PR'd and sold-in these days. The majority of the innovation in these areas generally comes from the specialist indies these days Numero, Ace/Kent, Dap-Tone etc.

A great seller for an indie specialist wouldn't cause any excitement at a major, where it's really all about numbers and mass audience.

Thank you! That's really all I have been trying to say. I may see it more because I am focused more on top 40 hits. The crowd here seems to prefer music off-the beaten path. But, it's all soul!

The main focus of this forum is soul music, but I could compile two nice Capitol sets: one for R&B, and one for hits from all popular music genres in Capitol's vaults.

[jsmith]

RE: I am focused more on top 40 hits. The crowd here seems to prefer music off-the beaten path.
....... that's because this is a 'specialist' music forum ...
... populated by guys & gals passionate about Motown [[& soul) music that was both commercially success AND NOT.

[roger]

Please tell me this is a no-no!

Boyfromxtown .. It seems that THE TWILIGHTS version of "Needle In A Haystack" was a big hit in Australia in 1966 .. which is no doubt why it got a U.S. release on Capitol.

There is quite a write up about the group here ..

http://www.milesago.com/artists/twilights.htm

However I would suggest that you make sure that you sit down, relax and check your blood pressure levels before you read who they think recorded the song first .. :)

Roger

[jsmith]

Has Teddy Greene's "Cry" been mentioned yet ?. This was released on a US Capitol 45 !!
There was discussion of Teddy on here in the past, it was thought that he might be from Detroit [[or at least been a regular in Detroit clubs).
BTW, the tuva side of his Capitol 45 has its fans as well.
In post 59 above, I make mention of the upcoming release of a Teddy Green track.

[jsmith]

One reason why Capitol enjoyed more success with its soul 45's / LPs in the 70's was because the company 'hired in' specialist guys to promote its soul releases.
Baltimore's WWIN DJ Fat Daddy [[Paul Johnson) was regarded as one of the top black radio DJ's by 1969 [[having started out in 63). He quit DJing to take up a post promoting soul record releases. By 74 he was National Promotions Director R&B at Atlantic Records in NY. He was winning National awards for his work & this resulted in him poached by Capitol.
By 1978 he was well established in LA & working as Capitol's R&B National Promotions Director.
Unfortunately, he died suddenly that year, having suffered a heart attack.

[jsmith]

Fat Daddy back in his WWIN days .......
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7quHCi6Y-F0
......... please translate for a poor Brit !!!!!!