15341 Livernois Ave

[motown_marc]

I am planning to make a trip to Detroit in the beginning of May and visit Hitsville again. But also make a tour to visit some of the studios mentioned in the tour on the SD Forum. Is the building of Tera Shirma on 15341 Livernois Ave still standing? After reading Ralph´s book I want to actually see the place. The streetview pictures on Google Maps date from July 2009. And what would I see if I would get a chance to look inside?
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[ralpht]

Marc,
The tall structure in the middle is the actual studio. I'm not sure what the rest of it is since it was added on after I was gone. If you do get a chance to see the inside, please take a bunch of pictures. I have been so curious to know what is left on the inside.

[ralpht]

Nice pic, by the way. I notice Livernois is now a boulevard and the surrounding area looks pretty nice. Glad to see that.

[motown_marc]

Thanks for your reaction Ralph. I recall that you once mentioned that where the gas station is now located, there used to be studio A. Was there another building in between the 2 locations at the time? Did you have to go outside to the other studio? I've made a screenprint from above. Looks like 2 identical huge spaces sandwiching your former studio.


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[chidrummer]

marc, here's a shot of Ralph's old studio from in front of the Mobil station taken in Sept. of 2010 [[check out the gas prices!!). Rent a car, grab a map and have a great time exploring Detroit. It'll be exhilarating and heartbreaking at the same time.

[ralpht]

Marc,
If you were facing the studio from the street, to the immediate left was a plumbing contractor[[Goodfriend Plumbing) owned bt Sydney Goodfriend. He was a nice guy that would come and visit at the studio once and a while. I can'
t remember what was to his left, but after that would have been Studio A and then on the corner where the gas station is now was a finance company, HFC[[Household Finance Corporation) which was a chain in Detroit. To the immediate right of the studio I can't remember but then came the building that would become Studio B.

[tamla617]

those gas prices were the same as i saw on long island 2005 give or take pennies.the boat yards and marinas were charging 3 bucks something.btw a US gallon is point 8 an imperial gallon.so although your prices are way cheaper than ours its 20% less fuel for the money.

how much is gas over there right now? i know i've gone ever so slightly off topic!

[ralpht]

Paying about $4.20 here in Monterey.

[marv2]

Nice pic, by the way. I notice Livernois is now a boulevard and the surrounding area looks pretty nice. Glad to see that.

I remember when parts of Livernois looked like Hell on Earth back in the 80's.

[ralpht]

Me too, Marv.

[marv2]

Paying about $4.20 here in Monterey.

Regular unleaded is $4.08 here on Long Island and over $4.55 in Manhattan!

[motown_marc]

Thanks for all the info Ralph. and chidrummer: I've rented a car with GPS and am preparing a list of things and sites I want to visit. Still searching for vinyl record stores in the area, hoping to pick up some missing items.

And here in the Netherlands gas is now € 2,80 which is about $ 3.70. and that's for a liter, which is only 0,264 gallons. So if I calculate correctly, a gallon would cost here $14!

[chidrummer]

dude, that's a VERY scary thought [[$14!!!!!!) At that price point for gas in the US, consider the world economy officially collapsed.

Gas here is the Chicago area is running between $4.17 - 4.65/gallon depending on if you're in the city, outside the city or in the suburbs.

Hey Marc, if you need any help with addresses or things you're trying to find, email me. You won't believe what Motown studio B is now.

[motown_marc]

Chidrummer, I took the grand studio tour on this forum and found that Ed Wingate’s Golden World on 3246 West Davison became Motown’s studio B after Berry Gordy bought it in September 1966. On Google Maps I came up with the picture below. Is this what it looks like today?

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And I might take you up on your offer to help me with the list of site to visit. I´ll post it later on, when I have made my first selection.

[chidrummer]

Yup!

Glad to be of service anytime, marc.

[motown_marc]

Thanks chidrummer! And apparently, next to each former recording studio a gas station was built.

[motown_marc]

Hi guys, as promised I went to the Motorcity, rented a car and went straight to Livonia. First picture, of course, had to be of the gas station next door to compare prices. I then went to former Tera Shirma for pictures, even at the back. But everything is locked very well, so unfortunately I could not get in.4841484248434844

[marv2]

Marc, great pictures. I'm getting homesick. I am going to Detroit Memorial Day weekend. did you spend time downtown?

[blueskies]

Great pics! I've toured the Motown recording studios, but when I was in Detroit, was unaware of the other recording studios. The only things I remember are Motown and then we went to Trappers Alley/Greek Town and the Art Museum. I think Trappers Alley has been gone for years, now. Does any one know when Hudson's Dept. Store went out of business? Didn't Ross work there as a teenager? Was it a high end type dept. store? Thanks.

[marv2]

Great pics! I've toured the Motown recording studios, but when I was in Detroit, was unaware of the other recording studios. The only things I remember are Motown and then we went to Trappers Alley/Greek Town and the Art Museum. I think Trappers Alley has been gone for years, now. Does any one know when Hudson's Dept. Store went out of business? Didn't Ross work there as a teenager? Was it a high end type dept. store? Thanks.

Hudsons downtown closed in the early 80's. I believe they demolished it sometime in 1984. It stood for WAYYY more than Diane Ross working there as a kid part time. LOL!!!

[marv2]

Great pics! I've toured the Motown recording studios, but when I was in Detroit, was unaware of the other recording studios. The only things I remember are Motown and then we went to Trappers Alley/Greek Town and the Art Museum. I think Trappers Alley has been gone for years, now. Does any one know when Hudson's Dept. Store went out of business? Didn't Ross work there as a teenager? Was it a high end type dept. store? Thanks.

To us kids, Hudsons Dept Store was like heaven especially during the holiday season.

[blueskies]

http://places.designobserver.com/media/images/herron-forgetting-10_525.jpgLook familiar? Looked like a pretty nice store. I remember downtown Halle's in Cleveland....if you ever heard of Mr. Jingle-ling....keeper of the keys? I'm dating myself, now!

[motown_marc]

Thanks Marv,
I went downtown for record hunting on Woodward at Peoples Records. Found some 45's on Tamla, RicTic, Invictus, Anna, Thelma Records, Tri-Phi and Golden World. And then searched for the old Golden World studio on 3246 West Davison. 48474848

The pictures are just as depressing as the ones above.

Finally I had a look at Hitsville, although they will only open tomorrow after a week of renovations. So tomorrow will be 2648 W Grand Blvd day!

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[marv2]

http://places.designobserver.com/media/images/herron-forgetting-10_525.jpgLook familiar? Looked like a pretty nice store. I remember downtown Halle's in Cleveland....if you ever heard of Mr. Jingle-ling....keeper of the keys? I'm dating myself, now!

Have you ever heard of "Rita Bell's Prize Movie"? Every Detroiter of certain age would remember, hehehehehehe!

[ralpht]

Wow! I haven't seen the back of Tera Shirma in years. Thanks for posting the pic.

[blueskies]

Have you ever heard of "Rita Bell's Prize Movie"? Every Detroiter of certain age would remember, hehehehehehe!

No, never heard of 'Rita Bell and the Prize Movie". Sounded like fun [[and of it's time). I'm sure you Detroiters would know her [[at least those of a certain age!)...........

[ralpht]

Hey Marv,
Are you old enough to remember "The Black Spider"?

[motown_marc]

About a year ago I started this thread in order to prepare my visit to Detroit last May. This year I have to go to Dallas for my work. And coming from Amsterdam I will have to change planes at Detroit. So what is more logical than to plan in a stopover? So I have about 2 days for record hunting and sight seeing. Last year I went to the former Studio of Tera Shirma on 15341 Livernois Ave and the Golden World Studios on 3246 West Davison. And visited of course Hitsville on West Grand Blvd, which is also on my list for this year. Also I already have been to Berry Gordy's mansion on West Boston Blvd and the Brewster projects.
Okay Motown historians, what can you recommend me for visiting, in relation to sixties Motown historical places?

[jsmith]

How about the Fox Theatre [[where the Motown Xmas shows were staged), the site of the 20 Grand [[what's there now ?) and other famous clubs the Motown stars played back in the 60's.

[marv2]

Hey Marv,
Are you old enough to remember "The Black Spider"?

Ralph, The mystery movies with "Honest Eddie Palermo"? ......The "Black Spider"! LOL!

[marv2]

How about the Fox Theatre [[where the Motown Xmas shows were staged), the site of the 20 Grand [[what's there now ?) and other famous clubs the Motown stars played back in the 60's.

The Fox Theater is there on Woodward in all of it's glory having been fully restored in the late 80's.

[ralpht]

Marv,
LOL. Was that the guys name? I remember he looked like he did wet work for the Mob.

[marv2]

Marv,
LOL. Was that the guys name? I remember he looked like he did wet work for the Mob.

Yeah that is what his name was. He talked like just about everyone I know in New York and especially on Long Island! LOL!!!

[ralpht]

All these years, Marv, I never knew the guys name. From what I remember, he wasn't exactly beef free with the law.

[motown_marc]

Good suggestions Ralph, I'll check out if something's happening at the Fox in the beginning of May. In what neighbourhood does Martha Reeves live?

[marv2]

All these years, Marv, I never knew the guys name. From what I remember, he wasn't exactly beef free with the law.

Well Ralph, you know that Detroit [[and Detroiters) have always been a little rough and tumble [[just like New York)! I remember one of my best friends in New York told me he had been in prison for 3 years. We were friends a whole year before he told me! LOL! I can believe Eddie Palermo had his brushes......

[ralpht]

LOL Marv. Yeah, the dude must have had a brush or two.

[marv2]

LOL Marv. Yeah, the dude must have had a brush or two.

You know what? Just little memories like this makes me extremely happy that I grew up where and when I did. Detroit Lives Forever! LOL!

[ralpht]

As my brother and I talk about frequently, Marv. Detroit was a blast.

[blueskies]

http://www.uncamarvy.com/FlameShowBar1955.jpgFlame Show Bar">

[ralpht]

Great shot, Blueskies. Thank you. Brings back good memories. I remember seeing Bill Doggett there one night.

[chidrummer]

marc, you ought to check out the original P-Funk labs - United Sound Studios. It's just around the corner from Hitsville at 5840 Second Av. Many a hit record came from that location.

[motown_marc]

thanks for the tip chidrummer; I'll start reading about United Sound Studios right away. I already found some info as well as a picture on the Soulful Detroit Tour: http://soulfuldetroit.com/web01-soulfuldetroit/united-sound.htm

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It doesn't look too promising on Google Earth

[robb_k]

Thanks for all the info Ralph. and chidrummer: I've rented a car with GPS and am preparing a list of things and sites I want to visit. Still searching for vinyl record stores in the area, hoping to pick up some missing items.

And here in the Netherlands gas is now € 2,80 which is about $ 3.70. and that's for a liter, which is only 0,264 gallons. So if I calculate correctly, a gallon would cost here $14!
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Dat is precies waarom ik rijd mijn fiets!

[motown_marc]

maar niet vandaag in Nederland Robb, want er ligt sneeuw en de gevoelstemperatuur is -10 Celcius!

[robb_k]

maar niet vandaag in Nederland Robb, want er ligt sneeuw en de gevoelstemperatuur is -10 Celcius!
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Jawel! Niet vandaag! Ik ben nu veel te oud!

[dennis_coffey]

Hi Ralph. I was playing at the Twenty Grand one night with one of the Motown acts. I was sitting at the bar with Bill Doggett. I told him how learning his songs was a rite of passage for us playing in the teen clubs. I told him how much we appreciated his music. He was very gracious and bought me a drink. We used his guitar player Billy Butler on a session with the Royaltones in NYC. It may have been the same time we saw you guys playing at the Peppermint Lounge as the Sunliners. I have been playing with my quartet at the Northern Lights Lounge on Tuesday night in Detroit two miles away from Motown for four years when I am in town. We play funk, Motown and jazz. When I was a member of the Funk Brothers at Motown, Earl Van Dyke, Uriel Jones, Robert White and a sax player were playing at the Chit Chat Lounge in Detroit. I was playing at the Frolic Show Bar on the John Lodge Service Drive and Clairmont with Lyman Woodard on organ and Melvin Davis Davis on drums. These clubs were two to three miles away from Hitsville. The audience in these clubs gave us feedback on what we were playing and helped us create our musical identities. We played on many hit records during the day at Motown using licks we had created in the clubs. If anyone wants to come to Detroit and learn about the music, please visit us the Northern Lights Lounge and hear how playing in clubs helped to create the music recorded at Motown. You will not be disappointed. I look forward to seeing you.

Dennis Coffey

[ralpht]

Dennis,
I remember coming to see you when you were playing with Melvin and Lyman. You guys were awesome.. I think I saw you twice there.

[ralpht]

Dennis,
Do you remember the story of the clinic Doggett's sax player did at Hewett's music? The Honky Tonk story.

[ralpht]

I think the trouble with many young musicians these days, Dennis, is the lack of clubs to play.You are so right...the clubs honed us as musicians. Hell we were all playing six nights a week. And you may not remember, but you were the guy that introduced me to suspended fourths. In Atlantic City.

[dennis_coffey]

Hi Ralph. I do not remember that clinic. I used to go in Hewett's a lot back in the day. I know the son Tim Hewett who now runs the stores. They have one in Troy. There are still many clubs in Metro Detroit to play but they are usually one nighters with different acts each night. It's not like the old days where you could play six nights a week for two years in the same club. I have some great young players in my band and they stay pretty busy. I do remember the story of when sax player King Curtis came to Windsor to play a show. All of the local sax players were lined up to sit in. King invited one of them on stage to do Honky Tonk. You should have seen the look on the guy's face when King started the song in the key of F#. yikes......

[ralpht]

Oh...that was in Windsor? That is the story I'm talking about, but I thought it was at Hewetts. From what I understand, King asked who the baddest sax player in Detroit was and at the time Davy Koverik seemed to be it. So he was invited to come up and play Honky Tonk with King. King counts it off...one....two....and then says 5 sharps as the song begins. Poor old Davey is stuck standing there with his horn in his mouth and nothing happening.

To the musically unschooled, Honky Tonk was in the key of F on the record. A relatively easy key to play in. F# is basically a bitch...