Site's Rules of Conduct?

[ladonna]

Is there a place on this Site that details how members are expected to comport themselves? If so, could someone direct me to that information?

Ralph? What criteria do you employ when deciding if a thread or a member gets zapped?

[ralpht]

Ladonna,
I believe there are some rules posted on the main forum heading page. Rules should not be needed if all posters would just follow simple codes of politeness and not attack one another for no good reason. I zap a thread when the conversation gets stupid and hostile. Same goes for a member. There is absolutely no excuse for some of the things that get posted here.
Admittedly, I am quicker to delete a post or ban a member than I was a while back. But you have to look at things my way. I'm not a elementary school teacher trying to keep peace on this board and don't choose to take the time trying to reason with someone that just wants to be idiotic.

[ralpht]

I just checked the home page and it looks like Lowell changed things when the site was updated. So....who needs rules? just be civil. So simple.

[ms_m]

It is simple but apparently some people don't understand simple or civil. I just received a call about a very disturbing post. It seems someone wasn't content with expressing dislike for an artist and his music but felt the need to insult and throw out ad homien attacks as well.

Everyone is entitled to his or her opinion and it's understandable you may not like a song or an artist but you don't have to go out of your way to insult them on a personal level....and it definitely doesn't help your cause when the person you are attacking is a long time personal friend of mine, as well as a friend to many others on this forum.

There are a lot of new people that have gravitated to SDF and maybe they are not aware that over the years, many classic soul artist have stopped in to post.....they are getting to the point they refuse to do that anymore...why would any of them want to come to a place where they are being personally attacked and humiliated by someone they don't even know.

Ralph, you started a thread whereby people could promote new music and one of our members did just that...the artist was trashed and she wanted me to ask that you delete her thread about the artist. I would prefer you didn't do that. If people don't like it, they can ignore. If they can do better, then they should step to the plate and do it!

[soulster]

The forum I frequent more than this place is full of middle-aged audiophiles. It can get so bad there that they need tons of rules and at least fifteen round-the-clock mods just to keep them in line, especially the more disrespectful members.

It's been my experience that people really do want rules so they know where the boundaries are, because, some people just don't know. We're talking about grown adults! Many are just adult bullies, and victims who lash out. Unfortunately, we do not live in a world where most people are disrespectful.

As the forum grows, it will attract more and more varied types of people from all walks of life. Not everyone will be like-minded. Rules have to be in temper various personalities and disagreements. Imaging how this country would be if we did not have rules and the cops just said "play nice".

Just another viewpoint, Ralph. I also say this as a moderator of another music/audio forum.

[oldiesmusicfan]

Yes, the rules are still here -

Click on Join Forum at the top of the page to the right of the green box. Page down to the bottom, where you are required to read the rules and abide by them if you wish to become a member. Good rules, and when they are enforced the forum is a pleasant place to be.

I have suggested in the past that the forum rules be in a thread permanently at the top of the thread list. Maybe having the rules constantly visible to all would promote better behavior.

Oldies

[soulster]

The problem is, is that people tend not to read the forum rules.

Each forum has a culture. For newbies, it takes time to assimilate to it. Sometimes, especially if you have just come from another forum, it's kind of difficult to change gears, so to speak. That's easy for those of you who only come to this place, but, for me, it can get rough because it is a much bigger bunch, the membership seems to be a bit younger than here overall, and most do not have real-life personal relationships with each other. This place seems to have a narrower scope of interest, meaning it's focused mostly on Motown, and many do not appear to have a wide range of interests.

Another place I visit are full of those with textbook knowledge of mixes, where to find what song on what CD, and the like, and do not discuss opinions. There, the members only deal with facts. The membership is small. On another music forum, no one gets personal at all, but it's filled with opinions. That particular one has many industry people on it and, again, the membership is very small.

I think this place, ten years old already, is still going through growing pains, which is healthy. The longtime members may resent the newbies coming in with their own agendas and style of interaction. They may long for the "old days" when it was just a few very-like-minded people who all kind of knew each other already. [[BTW, I am a longtime member but left for a few years when the first wave of stuff happened. I was not around for the big purge, as some have called it.)

I know some of you don't like me. I do not really fit in. I am relatively younger [[under 50), an audiophile, a techno/computer-geek, and have a totally different way of thinking about many things. I am not conventional and I am a social liberal. I dare to ask the uneasy questions. I am not a fan of any particular artist to the point of obsession. I am a lifelong fan of music, all kinds of music, and sound quality. I like to read about the technical innards of how our music was made. I already know the music and the songs, so I go deeper.

But, you know, there is no need for name-calling and cat-fighting. I had some issues with a few people here. Some of it was because of misunderstandings, some of it was because personal attacks, and some of it was probably just personality differences. But, I let that go, and I hope the other parties have also. For the most part, we stay out of each other's way. I certainly do not hate anyone here. To hate someone, you have to know them personally, and I do not know anyone on this forum personally. So, why this constant thing with Marv2 and Roberta '75, and others? I don't know what Marv was supposed to have done - no, I don't care - just as i'm sure no one cares about what happened between a couple of other people and myself. I would hope you all can work it all out.

I know I can skip the threads, but I really do with there was more here than just Diana Ross talk all the time. I try to think of thread topics for this forum, but every time I come up with something, I stop myself because I know no one will be interested. Sorry! I just had to get that out! :)

[Hotspurman]

Rules on a forum are bit likes terms and conditions - no one really reads them until such time as they need to check on something. I certainly didn't read the rules for this forum when I joined. I just assumed that I should treat other people as I would expect to be treated, be it online or in person. It is my way to be at times flippant and facetious, but I guess I'm like that in person too. So that side of my personality probably comes out in the postings I make. Overall, I'm here to improve my knowledge on Motown and its artists. I too don't like every artist that recorded for Motown, but I respect other people may hold them dear. Similarly, there are one or two tracks by my favourite artist, Stevie Wonder, that I cannot stand, but again I accept that someone, somewhere might have a reason to hold special memories of the songs.

What I've seen on the forum, from time to time, is a bit like some of the postings on You Tube. Have a look sometime - check on Millwall fans having a fight, then look at the comments from West Ham, Chelsea or other 'fans'. It's like a playground only with worse language.

[soulster]

I'm simply saying that perhaps this place is too diverse now to just figure everyone is going to think the same and live by the same behavioral code. That's why it needs to be spelled out and enforced. Yes, it's a big job for one person who also has a life.

[arrr&bee]

If i may put in my two cents worth[in today's economy actually a penny's worth]we had better be very glad that there's a site like this one,i too have visited other[so-called]music forums and most of em are rough and even the fair ones are boring because almost no one is there,this place is heaven and we had better hope that no one idiot of group pisses ralph off to the point where he pulls the plug cause all of us real music lovers will be sad...if a post pisses you off then don't respond..soulful detroit and ralph forever!!!

[smark21]

My take is that Ralph is not consistent in applying the rules and moderating members. Some members are on a short leash while others are pretty much given free reign. It makes me wonder what is the cause for this double standard? Is it based on whether someone gives money to the site? Or flattering Ralph? In many respects, what goes on around here is no different from politics. If you're in, whether it's through vocal displays of loyalty and flattery, or giving money, then you're in. I guess it's human nature...whereever people gather and congregate and organize, politics will happen.

[soulster]

The thing is, most people do not report bad posts because they either want to see a big brawl, or they plan to participate in it.

Instead of just backing away from a thread gone bad, I think it's a member's duty to report issues. I report things.


My take is that Ralph is not consistent in applying the rules and moderating members. Some members are on a short leash while others are pretty much given free reign. It makes me wonder what is the cause for this double standard? Is it based on whether someone gives money to the site? Or flattering Ralph? In many respects, what goes on around here is no different from politics. If you're in, whether it's through vocal displays of loyalty and flattery, or giving money, then you're in.

However, each case, or person, is different, and should be handled as such. It's like your children. Do you treat them both equally, or do you take their individual personalities, ages, and needs, and intent, into consideration. Even the law allows for these variables.

Moderating is not an easy job. Actually, the burden falls on the moderator. The moderator is the one who has to show the most understanding and consideration, much like the producer and his or her artists.

[tsull1]

I think this forum is moderated very well. Seems civil most of the time to me and I've met some friends here, which is rare for a message board.

The only thing I don't like is being told I have to like rap or overly-produced music because it's new, the latest thing, or I'm stuck in my ways, narrow-minded etc. Hey, if I don't like it, I don't like it. This is mostly a classic soul board, that's why I came here. I'm guessing there are rap boards and electronic music boards. If I don't want to greatly alter my musical tastes and keep listening to the groups I like, so be it. [[BTW, I do by new soul music, just not rap.)

[timmyfunk]

Call me old fashioned, but I never read any of the forum rules. I don't think that I need to read a bunch of rules when I already know the true meaning of civility. I've voiced my distaste for various forms of music, have engaged in spirited debates, but I've only crossed the line when others have crossed it with me. And even then, I believe I've done with enough civility to avoid being called out by Ralph. It seems pretty simple in my eyes.

[soulster]

I think this forum is moderated very well. Seems civil most of the time to me and I've met some friends here, which is rare for a message board.

The only thing I don't like is being told I have to like rap or overly-produced music because it's new, the latest thing, or I'm stuck in my ways, narrow-minded etc. Hey, if I don't like it, I don't like it. This is mostly a classic soul board, that's why I came here. I'm guessing there are rap boards and electronic music boards. If I don't want to greatly alter my musical tastes and keep listening to the groups I like, so be it. [[BTW, I do by new soul music, just not rap.)

Well, that has nothing to do with what we are talking about here. What you are talking about is something different. What we are talking about are insults and sarcasm, the kind that usually erupts when talking about certain members or a certain singer.

I do think you have a right to be closed-minded about music. :) But, it is in poor taste to outright bash another person's taste in music.

[soulster]

Call me old fashioned, but I never read any of the forum rules. I don't think that I need to read a bunch of rules when I already know the true meaning of civility. I've voiced my distaste for various forms of music, have engaged in spirited debates, but I've only crossed the line when others have crossed it with me. And even then, I believe I've done with enough civility to avoid being called out by Ralph. It seems pretty simple in my eyes.

This is what I am getting at: everyone draws the line at different points. You do need some rules to point out where the moderator draws it. Where you think the line is may not be where, for example, tsull1, considers the line to be. That's what i'm saying. There is no one place that everybody just somehow "knows" where it is. This place is getting too diverse for that. You have people from at least three different countries, different ages, cultures, races, sex/sexual orientation, and classes, all on this one little forum. Some people are personal friends outside of this forum, some have never met face-to-face. And, everybody comes here for different reasons with slightly different interests. Yeah, i'd say this place needs some written rules and we need to read them.

The bottom line for me is as long as no one personally attacks another person, which means berating or insulting, this place will do fine. But, some people live that way in real life, so they still need rules to tell them where insults start.

BTW, ladonna! Good thread. I think some of the best threads are the ones where people can air out their complaints and differences. They may be a distraction and go against the spirit of a forum, but they do help, in my experience.

[timmyfunk]

This is what I am getting at: everyone draws the line at different points. You do need some rules to point out where the moderator draws it. Where you think the line is may not be where, for example, tsull1, considers the line to be. That's what i'm saying. There is no one place that everybody just somehow "knows" where it is. This place is getting too diverse for that. You have people from at least three different countries, different ages, cultures, races, sex/sexual orientation, and classes, all on this one little forum. Some people are personal friends outside of this forum, some have never met face-to-face. And, everybody comes here for different reasons with slightly different interests. Yeah, i'd say this place needs some written rules and we need to read them.

The bottom line for me is as long as no one personally attacks another person, which means berating or insulting, this place will do fine. But, some people live that way in real life, so they still need rules to tell them where insults start.

BTW, ladonna! Good thread. I think some of the best threads are the ones where people can air out their complaints and differences. They may be a distraction and go against the spirit of a forum, but they do help, in my experience.

Let's be real here. There are some individuals on this board who try and come off like the smartest persons in the room and are very antagonistic towards other forum members. Would life on this board be better with them? Probably. But even then, I've never thought that anyone should be banned from this site even when they're being that anti-social. I've never read the Bible to the degree that I would use it to outline my behavior. My upbringing dictates my behavior. This is why I've never read the forum rules. Civility, when you break it down, has no geographical limitation.

BTW, I'm not disagreeing with your post, Soulster. Just kinda adding to it.

[ralpht]

Smark,
I just try and call them as I see them. I try not to play favorites and deal with everyone on an equal footing. If you see things otherwise, I can't do anything about that, but apologize for not being able to please all.

[oldiesmusicfan]

It seems no one has noticed my post above where I answered the question about whether there are any forum rules or not. Ralph seemed to think that they were eliminated when the new format of SDF began. So, here they are and they can be found when you click on the Join Forum link at the top of the page, then page down to the bottom of that form. And I will again state that it would be helpful to have them floating at the top of the threads like the few promotion threads that are up there now, maybe titled "Please Read These Forum Rules Before Participating." This way Ralph can refer to them [[where they are posted for all to see every day) each time someone cannot control themselves.

In order to proceed, you must agree with the following rules:

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Oldies

[ms_m]

I remember these...

dayum sam...err body in the "street thread" from back in the day should have been outta here...oops...I guess they are.....LOL

Thanks Oldies I saw your post and I do remember reading them a millions years ago [[so it seems) when I joined but I hadn't seen them for awhile. I agree, they should be posted somewhere permanent but to tell you the truth...they leave things pretty wide open and back to the discretion of the moderator and self governing of members... some people say things without any malice whatsoever but others take it a different way....some things are pretty obvious and not open to interpretation and then again others things are not...guess that's why these places need moderators....someone has to be the final guardian of what is what. I don't always agree with Ralph's decisions and he knows this but I'm a guest here...he has the final say and I accept that. If I don't like it...my problem and no one else's. My issues is the way people talk about the artist....I don't think it's cool to come to a MUSIC forum and insult artists whose music you rave about...something just seems wrong with that picture to me. You can dislike something and state that without making comments about them personally....at least that's how I see it....the rest of the stuff said around here....shrugs....it is, what it is.

Hope all is well Oldies...wish we could have hooked up back in Dec...next time though. :)

[ralpht]

Oldies,
Thank you for posting the rules. I think common sense is represented in the parameters, but it doesn't always seem to work that way.

[soulster]

By agreeing to these rules, you warrant that you will not post any messages that are obscene, vulgar, sexually-oriented, hateful, threatening, or otherwise violative of any laws.

Well, you guys disagree with me, but I think the rules are are a bit too vague.

Timmyfunk, you say your behavior is a result of your upbringing, but you have to remember that everyone was raised differently!

Once again, I have a different opinion than the majority of this forum. That's the way it is, I guess.

[ralpht]

Opinions are what matters here, Soul. Problems arise when some take their respective opinions a little too seriously and forget there is more than one side to any issue.

[soulster]

Problems arise when some take their respective opinions a little too seriously and forget there is more than one side to any issue.

And, unfortunately, that's how most people are.

Maturity is the ability to accept an opinion different than our own without berating a person for it. It is possible to explain why a person's position is disagreed on without personally attacking that person.

[ms_m]

This is one of those issues that will never be fully resolved by everyone, the way everyone wants it to be......

I honestly can't think of anything I have ever said on this forum that was,
obscene, vulgar, sexually-oriented, hateful, threatening...YET....I bet there are dozen or more people on this forum who believe otherwise.

We all know now, there are rules and they are posted but the bottom line is this, Ralph is the gatekeeper....he makes the decisions....we can disagree with his decisions, agree with his decisions, like them or not but he's the boss...the godfather so this will always come down to him...I can live with that, it seems to me, the real question is....who can't?

[ms_m]

I take that back....I did tell everyone on the forum once, doing or around the time of the street thread debacle to KMA [[that was vulgar) and I also apologized for it and admitted I was wrong....needed to keep myself honest....LOL...

[soulster]

I have also said things that could be interpreted as obscene, vulgar, sexually-oriented, hateful, or threatening. The trouble with the written word is that there are no facial cues to help us evaluate a person's intent or demeanor. Some people are quite sensitive, while others seem sociopathic.

[ladonna]

I started this thread because I have witnessed with my own two eyes that this site is not administered in a consistent manner. I mean, it comes as no surprise, the administrator didn't even know the rules, or if the even existed. I have also witnessed inconsistent treatment and favoritism from Ralph towards members, and it has bothered me. This is why I raised the topic. Ralph stated that he didn't want to feel like a disciplinarian, I would beg to differ, I think he enjoys it and is a ego trip for him. I don't think it is that difficult to moderatete a site. Rules should be established, and should someone deter from following the rules, they should be warned, if they continue, they should be banned. To my mind, this would alleviate Ralph being called upon to make these decisions arbitrarily, to what appears to me, on a whim, and often times, IMO, unfairly. For example, there was one member, I believe her name was Hula Girl, a huge Michael Jackson fan, who obviously had mental health issues. Ralph came down on her very hard, using bullying tactics, and eventually deleted her account. I felt terrible about this for days. Yes, Hula Girl was out there; however, she was harmless. I couldn't help but wonder how sheetmust have felt being ostracized due to a condition that was beyond her control. Should we also ostracize cancer victims
Yes, Ralph, I am calling you out; I have also been a benefactor of your bullying tactics, and it did not feel good. In fact, it stopped me from participating until now. I wonder how many others do not participate, because they don't know how the will be treated from day to day.

[ladonna]

Again, please forgive the typos ..

The other thing I wanted to add is that I felt terrible about how Hula Girl ws treated, because I bet her entire life, has been one of exclusion.

I raise these topics, Ralph, not to make you angry, but for you to consider your behavior, and. to encourage you to improve your moderating skills if you feel there is room for improvement once you have considered some of the things I've shared.

[ms_m]

Wow, I'm going to defend Ralph on the ego charge, I don't see that one at all....I see a a few other things but not ego....LOL.

Ladonna, I understand how you feel and I've seen others make similar charges against Ralph and I can tell you from personal experience, Ralph and I have not always agreed and we have had our "moments" but this is a forum and on forums you're subject to the decisions of the person running the place. Don't mean to sound harsh but that's the nature of these types of places.

Whether I agree or not with the decisions Ralph makes, all and all he's done a hell of a job with ALL the stuff he has had to deal with and I've been here since 2005. I have seen my share of crazy..heck just dealing with emails about me has probably given him more grey hairs than necessary...hahaha

Let me get back to this I just heard something I need to check out.

[marv2]

I started this thread because I have witnessed with my own two eyes that this site is not administered in a consistent manner. I mean, it comes as no surprise, the administrator didn't even know the rules, or if the even existed. I have also witnessed inconsistent treatment and favoritism from Ralph towards members, and it has bothered me. This is why I raised the topic. Ralph stated that he didn't want to feel like a disciplinarian, I would beg to differ, I think he enjoys it and is a ego trip for him. I don't think it is that difficult to moderatete a site. Rules should be established, and should someone deter from following the rules, they should be warned, if they continue, they should be banned. To my mind, this would alleviate Ralph being called upon to make these decisions arbitrarily, to what appears to me, on a whim, and often times, IMO, unfairly. For example, there was one member, I believe her name was Hula Girl, a huge Michael Jackson fan, who obviously had mental health issues. Ralph came down on her very hard, using bullying tactics, and eventually deleted her account. I felt terrible about this for days. Yes, Hula Girl was out there; however, she was harmless. I couldn't help but wonder how sheetmust have felt being ostracized due to a condition that was beyond her control. Should we also ostracize cancer victims
Yes, Ralph, I am calling you out; I have also been a benefactor of your bullying tactics, and it did not feel good. In fact, it stopped me from participating until now. I wonder how many others do not participate, because they don't know how the will be treated from day to day.

Yeah, well I am sure you must have felt bad about Mj4evah too! He/she had some major issues too, but that is not Ralph's or the forums problem. We are not mental health professionals! The problem is not at all how this forum is moderated. The problem is with these guys that come here with these made up personas that are not here to discuss the music, the artists or other current discussion topics. The problem is when a specific group of folks use personal attacks on other forum members if they don't agree with something such as worshipping Diana Ross and Ralph has to get involved in those threads, you guys want to faint, fall all over the floor and start disrespecting him by saying that he is not a good moderator. He is an EXCELLENT moderator. We are all guests here or have you forgotten that? There are some people that moderate forums such as this one that would have just gotten rid of everyone and turn the forum into an "invitation only" set up!

I know from experience that some on here [[I can list everyone of them) that if you say or post something they don't like or agree with, they form their little cyber lynch mob and try to jump all over you with a bunch of stupid personal attacks. If I or anyone says anything other than worshipping Diana Ross then you become a target. I know you all know what I am talking about when you can go look for yourselves at the "Motown Forum" and find at least 20 different threads with Diana Ross being subject. Everything from her receiving an honorary Grammy to her grocery shopping habits! They have made a conscious effort to try to turn that area of the forum into a Diana Ross Fan club. They know completely well that there are a few of those elsewhere on the internet, but that's not good enough. They worship that woman so much that they want to force it on others. Ok enough of Diana Ross fans.

LaDonna, you always sound like you are so unhappy here. Why do you keep coming back? There are a number of people that I know that have been banned for various reasons that keep rejoining this site under new aliases. That tells me more than one thing. The main thing it says to me is that Soulful Detroit is an excellent internet music discussion board which is why they keep coming back. It is excellent largely in part because of RALPH! If he were different they you would like him to be, then Soulful Detroit would not be the same great place that it is. The only acrimony I ever see or experience here is when it comes to these over the top, die-hard Diana Ross fanatics that would cut their own mother's throats over this woman, this singer.

Marv

[ladonna]

I explained why I come here on another thread, Marv2; sadly it was deleted; for reasons I still don't quite understand.

[P-Shark: The Revenge]

Hula Girl is not banned
http://soulfuldetroit.com/memberlist.php?ltr=H&pp=50&sort=username&order=asc

[ladonna]

Maybe it was someone else; the facts remain the same, P-shark.

[ladonna]

ms.m? With all due respect, I respectfully disagree. I personally have been the benefactor of Ralph's bullying tactics, and was called "annoying" for merely expressing my opinion. If being "annoying" is not allowed, perhaps this should be added to the rules. Of course, annoyance, not unlike how this site is administered is, once again, arbitrary

Now, I'm curious enough the things you've noticed? If you are reluctant to put it out there, could be mistaken, but you m

[ladonna]

I could be mistaken, but your reluctance to do so may very well be making my point.

[ms_m]

lawd love a duck...why does everything center around two Supremes or off shoots of the two Supremes...and folks wonder why Ralph is the way he is....

yo Ralph, I'm about to make a batch of dirty martinis, going to use some of Jai's special brew...you want one? LOL...

...and just so you will know...whether you make me happy, glad, mad or sad, [[sometimes) you are cool with me and I appreciate the work you do.

I'm out!

[ms_m]

No I'm not reluctant I just don't see the point ladonna. I really do believe that the moderator should have the final say... I can agree or disagree but I believe the choice on how this place is run is up to the man in charge.

Lowell owns this place...it's his money that keeps this place running and I can tell you it's not cheap and if you look around you'll notice no ads run to help to offset the cost like you see on other sites

...I doubt if that many people actually donate to help with that so that means Lowell has majority ownership and he has put Ralph in charge of his investment. He gets to call the shots....I dig that whether I agree with how he calls those shots or not.

[ralpht]

Pour me a big one, Ms.M. This place has driven me to drink. And, just for the record: you were always my favorite sparring partner so long ago.As John Wayne would say, "Girl, you got sand!"

[ms_m]

you got it...I made it extra dirty......cheers:)

[ladonna]

I agree; whomever owns/moderates this board should be in charge; however, if the have an interest in maintaining a board where all members feel welcomed and respected, rules should be established and adhered to by ALL, members, moderators, and owners alike. Of course, this may very well not be their intent. If it is however, achieving this goal would not be that difficult. This is my point.

[chidrummer]

ladonna, I've met and known Ralph and many other people on this forum for years now and I have to tell you ego has nothing to with his moderation style. This forum is huge. Three different sections plus an achieve. Its impossible to see everything and be everywhere at the same time.

If you think Ralph's pulled the trigger on someone a little too quickly, believe me that was past EXPERIENCE making that call, not whether he's been flattered by anyone. Ralph has had to ban people from the forum that he's known a long time. It wasn't easy and it damaged some of his friendships. He did it at the time because it was the right thing to do. Did you know he's also left the door for many of these folks to come back? All he asks is that we behave like the grown men and woman that we are. As long as I've been here [[since 2003, I think) Ralph has always simply tried to act in the best interest of the forum. You can't ask more from a person than that.

[ralpht]

Ladonna,
This board has survived 10 years. I think we are doing something right. Every week I approve approximately 25 new members. So what is your beef?

Ms.M,
Ahhh, the dirtier the better. Thank you.

[ralpht]

Thank you Chi for your words of support. Much appreciated.

[ladonna]

Ralph,

Sorry I mentioned it. Back to Lurking status.

[ms_m]

anytime Ralph, anytime!

[ms_m]

I could be mistaken, but your reluctance to do so may very well be making my point.

hahahaha...oh dear, you really don't know me that well do you? LOL


Reluctance has nothing to do with it Ladonna, it really doesn't. I honestly don't see the point of nitpicking every decision Ralph has made.

I'm sorry you have felt you were not welcomed here and I mean that sincerely. I don't know the history between you and Ralph. A lot of stuff around here I've learned to simply ignore but I can say this....with all the different personalities Ralph has dealt with in the years I've been here...he's done one heck of a job from where I sit. He's made mistakes and he's owned up to mistakes but all and all....I'm glad he's the one in charge.

[soulster]

Again, please forgive the typos ..

The other thing I wanted to add is that I felt terrible about how Hula Girl ws treated, because I bet her entire life, has been one of exclusion.

I raise these topics, Ralph, not to make you angry, but for you to consider your behavior, and. to encourage you to improve your moderating skills if you feel there is room for improvement once you have considered some of the things I've shared.

Uh...wow. I suppose you could do better? Moderating is a HARD job! Ralph has been damn good considering he's the only one.

[smark21]

Has Ralph ever considered adding a second moderator to shoulder the work, especially at times when Ralph may be too busy on his music to spend much time here?

[ralpht]

I've thought about that Smark, but am never sure if that might complicate matters.

[ralpht]

And thanks for the ups, Soul...

[soulster]

Has Ralph ever considered adding a second moderator to shoulder the work, especially at times when Ralph may be too busy on his music to spend much time here?

He offered it to one of his friends the last time this type of thing erupted, but I had an issue with the guy he offered it to. The person bashed me on two occasions, unprovoked, apparently supporting someone I went off on who went off on me. I *think* we cleared our differences, I don't know. Then, someone bashed me for having a problem with someone who bashed me.

See what I meant about there being so many preexisting personal relationships here? It's like a little clique.

[smark21]

I've thought about that Smark, but am never sure if that might complicate matters.

Well if you ever do pick someone,choose someone who you can work with, with whom you're in general accord with and with someone who has the respect of the vast majority of members here. That would help make it work.

[soulster]

Well if you ever do pick someone,choose someone who you can work with, with whom you're in general accord with and with someone who has the respect of the vast majority of members here. That would help make it work.

Pick someone who isn't personal buddies with other members. Then, no one can be accused of favoritism or having a vendetta.

And somebody pleeezzze give these obsessed Supremes/DR/MW fans a message board of their own!

[ralpht]

That would be difficult shoes to fill, Soul.
If I had my way, I would outlaw those threads, but then you think I get accused of crap now?

[ms_m]

I understand the logistics of bringing in another moderator but at the end of the day...someone, will not like a decision that is made.

Internet forums are not like small democratic countries...would be nice if they were but...that's not the nature of the beast ....even when you have rules in place. Sometimes you find a forum that's a fit, sometimes not but this is not rocket science, if it works for you great...if not...then a person needs to make a decision and do what they have to do.

Ralph mentioned the forum has been here for 10 years....when it gets to the point it's not working anymore....people will simply stop coming, Lowell will close it down and something else on the net will take it's place.

[imnokid]

For what it's worth, I think that this is a wonderful forum. And I don't think it's a moderators' place to "scold".
I am sure that for the most part, we are all adults here. If someone says something that you don't like, or if a back and forth discussion is going nowhere, just stop responding.

Life is much to short for this kind of bullshit.

Long live Lowell & Ralph!

[ladonna]

I volunteer for the co-moderator role should it come to be! Rather than enter into an endless debate about this, I will put my money where my mouth is and take on this responsibility, should it be forthcoming; however, I predicted that Ralph, despite health conditions that cause him difficulty, is too ego-ridden to even give up a smidgen of control. [[Anyone care to place a wager .. lol. ;) What say you, Ralph?

Moderating a site is not that difficult peeps, despite what you've been told. It helps too, if the moderator knows the rules. LOL! I mean, how can one be an effective moderator if one is not familiar with the rules. LOL! Just sayin'. LOLOLOLOL!!

[timmyfunk]

Well, you guys disagree with me, but I think the rules are are a bit too vague.

Timmyfunk, you say your behavior is a result of your upbringing, but you have to remember that everyone was raised differently!

Once again, I have a different opinion than the majority of this forum. That's the way it is, I guess.

Maybe I'm giving adult human beings too much credit, but I do believe that most people on this board have possess common decency and common sense. Which is probably the reason why controversial moments on this board happen far and few between.

[MIKEW-UK]

Well, my personal opinion is that the reason this site is so successful and continues to flourish is above all else down to the outstanding moderator of the site. Ralph demonstrates great character and skilful judgement in the moderation of this forum, and I personally am very grateful to him for the time and energy he freely gives to the site, with seemingly little reward other than perhaps a little appreciation now and then. The site is incredibly lucky to have someone who combines both the ability to moderate such a dynamic and complex forum as well as a personal life- long participation in the creation and establishment of the music we come here to follow and enthuse about.
I'd like to see a lot more recognition and thoughtful appreciation for what Ralph does for all of us through this site.

[ladonna]

Again, MIKE-UK, I would respectfully disagree.

[paladin]

Adults fight, kids fight, doesn't mean that either is right. Ralph has done an excellent job of wearing the striped shirt when these mini battles occur. I have no problem with his decision making process and even if I did, all I have to do is ignore the thread or poster, refuse to comment or leave the site. But the gray areas are the ones that create difficulty. I've seen many a thread topic go astray when a "fanatical poster" will simply go overboard by writing ridiculous things, going off topic, hijacking threads and then making personal attacks against another member. Its very difficult to judge Ralph's decision making in those cases because something that was so right about a thread has suddenly went very wrong. This happens quite a bit in those threads reserved for all things Supreme, which I avoid like the plague.

Some members come here for information, others for fun, others out of curiosity and still others that are technocrats and collectors. That's the thing I like best about the forum, the diversity is absolutely refreshing because I can assume all of those characteristics as the needs arise. I've noticed something over the years though, whenever we the membership venture off into politics or religion, usually the race card follows and all hell breaks loose like a Diana Ross & Supremes toenail thread. But Ralph has handled all these situations and more as they develop, like Chi and some others have said, he does a dam good job. He's battled trolls and hackers, and all sorts of vile things over the years and even when I didn't agree with some of his decisions, I've always respected him as an individual.

Like TimmyFunk, I was brought up to be respectful and considerate of others, but sometimes folk can push your button and before you know it you're ready to come out swinging. Shhh happens, but really folks, being civil and practicing self comportment should outweigh most everything else, you can still be passionate about your favorite Motown or other artist without resorting to the tactics of some of the folk who come here just itching for a brawl.

Years ago, this place was a hell of a lot of fun, because of the presence of like minded members who told outrageous stories [[ mostly true) and they employed a sense of humor about and throughout the entire site, not only about the artists but themselves as well. There will always be folk who hide behind the computer and wait for the next cyber accident/incident to occur but that's just the way it is. I can deal with that.........besides that the only other thing I really miss is the old black background forum and the way the threads would light up like neon, now that was some cool stuff if I ever saw it...and when I first got here lo those many years ago, I was like dam-yum this is so cool. Ralph I know its long gone but I aint never gonna get over that........you know how it goes...some like David, some like Dennis.......I like them both.....

[timmyfunk]

Well, my personal opinion is that the reason this site is so successful and continues to flourish is above all else down to the outstanding moderator of the site. Ralph demonstrates great character and skilful judgement in the moderation of this forum, and I personally am very grateful to him for the time and energy he freely gives to the site, with seemingly little reward other than perhaps a little appreciation now and then. The site is incredibly lucky to have someone who combines both the ability to moderate such a dynamic and complex forum as well as a personal life- long participation in the creation and establishment of the music we come here to follow and enthuse about.
I'd like to see a lot more recognition and thoughtful appreciation for what Ralph does for all of us through this site.

Totally agree. Thumbs up Ralph.

[ladonna]

Has anyone actually absorbed anything I've written? I LMAO at Ralph's question, "Ladonna, what's your beef?" I have stated my " beef" quite clearly and succinctly throughout this thread, if anyone cares to read for comprehension and with objectivity. Ay-yi-yi! How much longer before this thread bites the dust I wonder?

[marv2]

I volunteer for the co-moderator role should it come to be! Rather than enter into an endless debate about this, I will put my money where my mouth is and take on this responsibility, should it be forthcoming; however, I predicted that Ralph, despite health conditions that cause him difficulty, is too ego-ridden to even give up a smidgen of control. [[Anyone care to place a wager .. lol. ;) What say you, Ralph?

Moderating a site is not that difficult peeps, despite what you've been told. It helps too, if the moderator knows the rules. LOL! I mean, how can one be an effective moderator if one is not familiar with the rules. LOL! Just sayin'. LOLOLOLOL!!

Are you losing it or are you crying because you can't have your way? I thought you announced yesterday that you were going back into lurker status. What happened?

[marv2]

Again, MIKE-UK, I would respectfully disagree.

Again, then why are you still here?

[marv2]

Well, my personal opinion is that the reason this site is so successful and continues to flourish is above all else down to the outstanding moderator of the site. Ralph demonstrates great character and skilful judgement in the moderation of this forum, and I personally am very grateful to him for the time and energy he freely gives to the site, with seemingly little reward other than perhaps a little appreciation now and then. The site is incredibly lucky to have someone who combines both the ability to moderate such a dynamic and complex forum as well as a personal life- long participation in the creation and establishment of the music we come here to follow and enthuse about.
I'd like to see a lot more recognition and thoughtful appreciation for what Ralph does for all of us through this site.



I most definitely agree Mike. Thanks for this post!

[ms_m]

How much longer before this thread bites the dust I wonder?


and I will repeat...this is not rocket science, if it works for you great...if not...then a person needs to make a decision and do what they have to do.

I'm not trying to be bitchy about this ladonna and I welcome all people who choose to grace this forum... but Ralph isn't going anywhere whether you like it or not....your move.

I wish you well whatever you decide.

[ralpht]

Maybe she will just go, Ms.M. Thank you to all my friends for the kind words of support. It means a lot to me.

[soulster]

That would be difficult shoes to fill, Soul.
If I had my way, I would outlaw those threads, but then you think I get accused of crap now?

It's your right to remove posts and threads.

[marv2]

Maybe she will just go, Ms.M. Thank you to all my friends for the kind words of support. It means a lot to me.

Who's better than you Ralph? Did you see the Beach Boys reunion on the Grammys?

[ms_m]

To be honest Ralph I wish she would hang around. In a lot of ways she reminds me... of me....LOL...

ladonna is dogmatic, persistent and she stands up for what she believes in....I respect that but trying to force you out after all these years is not going to happen and I think that's something she may want to learn to accept. If she can't, no crime committed.

I will say this though, when YOU make the decision to walk....I'm out too. It's been a good run and I will admit I miss the old days but I hang in there because of the friendships I've made here...on and off the board. I can hang as long as you can my friend and when it's time to go....we'll hook up some other place I'm sure.

[soulster]

I would say that even if someone does wind up pushing another's buttons, one has to consider the intent. Was the post designed to push buttons, or was it the reader's frame of mind?

Sometimes it's good to just step away from the computer when something comes up and think through the response before one "goes off".

[soulster]

Years ago, this place was a hell of a lot of fun, because of the presence of like minded members...

What I have been trying to say is that this place may be too big or diverse for it to be like that again. It's just a consequence of a growing forum. The same handful of people frequently post, but there are more who dip their toe in. And, a lot of members have never met. I have not met one single person on this forum, and have only seen pictures of two, Ralph and Ms. M.

BTW, since this is kind of one of those threads where people are airing out their frustrations, anger, and whatever, I want to state that I did not deserve your insults toward me the last time this type of thread happened. You assumed that I knew what everyone meant by "the grandfather". You may not have realized that I am not in your little clique, or know your little nicknames for people.

[ladonna]

Anyway, my offer and wager stands.

[ladonna]

Oh! If photos count, mine is on my profile; although, I hardly see the relevance to this thread, soulster.

Thanks for the shout out, but let's not get dramatic, no one is trying to force anything. I am simply offering up a few ideas that could make the SDF experience more enjoyable for all. Are y'all this defensive in your personal lives.

Once again, Ralph; if you need a break, I'm your gal!

[soulster]

Anyway, my offer and wager stands.

Ralph is not going to offer either one of us the job. You have too many enemies, and I have had bad run-ins with a few people. And I get annoyed with the obsessed Supremes fans.

[ladonna]

But he's made you his mouthpiece, soulster?

[soulster]

But he's made you his mouthpiece, soulster?

No, just telling you the truth. You would go after certain members like I would focus on those Supremes/DR/MW threads, and I wouldn't be so kind to all the stupid bickering that goes on about those singers.

[ladonna]

I know, baby; scroll up; I've already discussed Ralph's inability to relinquish control, but I've been wrong before.

[ladonna]

But see Soulster, that's why I would be ideal, as long as they didn't violate the rules, I wouldn't treat any of the groups you've mentioned differently. I have the ability to separate my personal beliefs, feelings, biases, etc. from the duties of being a moderator.

I've made my case; moving on ..

[ms_m]

LOL...you crack me up ladonna and I mean that in a good way. If you look through the thread, the only person who seems not to be having an enjoyable experience here [[overall) is you.

That's not to say there are not others out there in lurker land who may feel the way you do but so far...you seem to be a majority of one sweetie....I feel ya on that, cause I've been there done that. But at some point you will be the one that has to decide how your stay here will be....or not. You can't change others but you can change how you react to others....if you want an enjoyable stay...only you can make that happen.

[ladonna]

Ha, ha!! Girl, I have had a number of folks contact me in support, maybe they will make themselves known. They fear Ralph's bullying tactics.

If you feel any dismay in my part, my darling ms m., most likely it stems from attempting to have an objective debate with so many who lack the ability to be objective. Waaaaaaa!!

Now stop it; I will await Ralph's response. ;O)

[soulster]

But see Soulster, that's why I would be ideal, as long as they didn't violate the rules, I wouldn't treat any of the groups you've mentioned differently. I have the ability to separate my personal beliefs, feelings, biases, etc. from the duties of being a moderator.

I've made my case; moving on ..

Sure. Everyone believes that they would be 100% impartial. You have already demonstrated an agenda, and issues with Ralph. Mods have to get along too. I have made it clear that I have do not have a lot of patience with the Supremes fans who constantly claw each other's eyes out. I can deal with all those threads, but they all turn sour. That's a lot of work!

[soulster]

Ha, ha!! Girl, I have had a number of folks contact me in support, maybe they will make themselves known. They fear Ralph's bullying tactics.

If you feel any dismay in my part, my darling ms m., most likely it stems from attempting to have an objective debate with so many who lack the ability to be objective. Waaaaaaa!!

Now stop it; I will await Ralph's response. ;O)

Uh...yeah! You call the boss a bully and then want him to hire you? Are you thinking?

[ms_m]

ok....LOL....

good luck ladonna....if you continue here at SDF, you're going to need it.
Nite

[atcsm]

I heart ladonna AND ms_m

[ladonna]

Boss or no boss; I am honest. Some bosses admire a gal with spunk. Axe Lou Grant.

Ms.m. presents a perfect example of what I would lobby against: veiled threats. Totally uncalled for, and add nothing to the discussion.

Now, will y'all quit giving me ammunition, I wanna finish watching the Grammys. ;op

[soulster]

Ladonna, it doesn't really work that way in the real world, just on TV.

[marv2]

Uh...yeah! You call the boss a bully and then want him to hire you? Are you thinking?

As I said earlier, I thinks she is losing it. There is absolutely nothing wrong with the way this forum is managed and Ralph does an excellent job. Most people here are good people that just enjoying discussing and sharing information about the music we all love. Then you have a small group of people that want to start and keep trouble going. We all know it is usually confined to Diana Ross threads as funny as that sounds LOL! [[Diane can't catch a break I guess, hehehehe) but on the whole the rest of the forum and it's members get along fine. We don't need a change and we definitely don't need this self appointed [[ or is it self -important) LaDonna running anything here! That is my solid opinion after being a member here since 2003.....9 years!

Marv

[juicefree20]

I wasjust passing through to acknowledge the passing of Whitney Houston when I happened upon this thread.

Now I've been here since the end of 2003 & I've seen 'em come, I've seen 'em go. I've tried to defuse a few fights & have been smack dab in the middle of 3 of the,including "The Streets" which was pretty much one of the nastiest threads which ever existed here & given my history with Ralph, if Ralph was as biased as people are accusing him of being, certainly, he wouldnt have allowed...excuse me...actually suggested that a thread be created in which me, a few others, as well as himself would be blasted.

Ralph allowed that thread to stand & having saved it, I don't recall him so much as censoring a word. You think that 'The Supremes" thread are bad!?!? There was NOTHING as bad as that thread...EVER! And even though Ralph,myself & a few others were being cursed, lied-on & called all sorts of names, despite others requesting that he delete it because it was getting out-of-hand, Ralph let that thread go for awhile & didn't ban anyone for even one word that they said against him. In fact, the only ban came following his wedding day for reasons which I won't revisit here.

Despite that nasty thread, Ralph still extended olive branches to all involved, INCLUDING one who enticed others to lie. We know that people lied because all of it came out a year or so later elsewhere. Regardless, Ralph extended olive branches which were refused & they were refused despite the fact that those involved full-well knew that they were guilty of lying or defending a lie.

Is Ralph perfect? To answer that, look into the mirror & ask the same question of yourself. Ask yourselves if there have been times when you could've handled things here differently that you did. Ask yourselves where there times when you could've tried to defuse a situation, but chose sarcasm & flippancy, therefore serving to escalate the situation. I've been guilty of doing so & would not deny that there were occasions where I could've turned the other cheek.

We have forumers here whom have never gone out of their way to court arguments nor controversy & have traditionally risen above the nonsense. By the way, I don't include myself in that number. But whenever there's problems, its always the same names involved, or whatever incarnation they may be this time around on the forum. You can check the record & the archives & wherever the threads haven't gotten so crazy as to get deleted, you'll see the same names & the same folks tossing around accusations about who started the crap, even when the thread gives proof-positive that the one screaming the loudest is most often the one who threw the first stone.

[ladonna]

I am pleased to hear that so many have had a positive experience interacting with Ralph.

[juicefree20]

I think that the most puzzling thing to me is why Ralph should have to treat grown folks, most of whom are over the age of 40 like a bunch of kids in elementary school to begin with.

I live in a neighborhood where the police seem to have to "regulate" the peoples, for lack of a less offensive phrase. Personally, it totally pisses me off to think that as a grown man, I need ANYONE [[usually from OUTSIDE of my community) to "oversee" us, as though we're on some damn plantation & too damn dumb or ignorant to comport ourselves as intelligent adults.

When I was at the P.O., I hated dealing with supervisors whom felt that they had to micro-manage & hover over people in order to get people to handle their business. Personally, I never had that problem but unfortunately & admittedly, there were too many people who needed to be watched. And though supervisors always left me alone to my own devices, it still offended me that folks had to act as overseers over grown folks.

It would seem to me that the problem lies far less with Ralph & his moderating skills & so much more with a bunch of 7 year-olds who are obviously masquerading as full-grown 40 & 50 year-old adults. It seems to me those tendencies of the SAME people & CONTINUALLY, at that, is the problem & rather than addressing Ralph with this kind of stuff, could regulate themselves as though they were on the streets where retribution would most likely be fast, fierce & severe.

I've said it before & I've seen this come to pass on several occasions...people simply should behave as though they're alone with their protagonist at 3 a.m. on the A-Train, where there's no cop, no instigator[[s) & no one to save them from their behavior. Stated simply, the internet makes everyone think that they're Mike Tyson.

Reality is usually another thing entirely & if you wouldn't say or do something on a face-to-face basis, then you simply shouldn't do it here or anywhere because one day, you just might find yourself face-to-face & all of the screaming to Ralph won't help.

Ralph IS NOT the problem here, because he played no role in the upbringing of folks whom while considering themselves to be civil, have proven long-ago that their self-appraisal & self-image is somewhat distorted & as far away from reality as the sun is to the earth.

Just an opinion from one who's been here for nearly 10 years.

[marv2]

Juice wrote:
"Stated simply, the internet makes everyone think that they're Mike Tyson.

"


BRILLIANT! Think about it.

[ladonna]

Well, Juicefree, if Ralph would adhere to the rules and apply them in a consistent manner, much angst could be side-stepped. Sometimes we like to make simple tasks difficult; it makes us feel important. Again, the ego thing. Moderating a board is not that difficult.

[soulster]

Well, Juice, I left this forum for a few years due to personal/family issues, and the place being overrun with those obsessed Supremes people. That thread may have happened when I wasn't around. I wonder if it's still there so I can familiarize myself with it.

I figured with the new forum software, there would be a new start with the slate wiped clean. That didn't last long.


I think that the most puzzling thing to me is why Ralph should have to treat grown folks, most of whom are over the age of 40 like a bunch of kids in elementary school to begin with.

I live in a neighborhood where the police seem to have to "regulate" the peoples, for lack of a less offensive phrase. Personally, it totally pisses me off to think that as a grown man, I need ANYONE [[usually from OUTSIDE of my community) to "oversee" us, as though we're on some damn plantation & too damn dumb or ignorant to comport ourselves as intelligent adults.


I don't know how many forums you visit, but you have to realize that bad behavior among middle-ages adults is not unique to this forum. It happens on virtually all of them.

[juicefree20]

And given the state of the world, I'm happy to be able to report some good news for a change.

People are being bombed, losing homes, can't find jobs, so I'll simply ask all to understand why I simply can't get myself too worked up over a bunch of adults who choose to act their shoe size & not their chronological age,

If THIS is how people deal with the real world, then I shudder to think of even one of them being charged with the responsibility of raising a goldfish, much less children to unleash on an unsuspecting world.

What I'm saying is that I find it rather funny when people want peace, but spend so much time courting anything but peace & choose to continually run into the eye of the storm. After watching it year after year, I no longer get angry about it. I merely find it somewhat puzzling.

I also don't like the practices of the Grand Dragon of The KKK, so as I don't agree with his policies, I wouldn't frequent any business[[es) or establishment[[s) which he owns. Which makes me wonder why people who don't like the policies of a particular establishment or would bother going there at all?

It's like willingly going to a "T-Bar" and complaining should a stray nipple pass your way.

Wouldn't make much sense, now would it?

[marv2]

And given the state of the world, I'm happy to be able to report some good news for a change.

People are being bombed, losing homes, can't find jobs, so I'll simply ask all to understand why I simply can't get myself too worked up over a bunch of adults who choose to act their shoe size & not their chronological age,

If THIS is how people deal with the real world, then I shudder to think of even one of them being charged with the responsibility of raising a goldfish, much less children to unleash on an unsuspecting world.

What I'm saying is that I find it rather funny when people want peace, but spend so much time courting anything but peace & choose to continually run into the eye of the storm. After watching it year after year, I no longer get angry about it. I merely find it somewhat puzzling.

I also don't like the practices of the Grand Dragon of The KKK, so as I don't agree with his policies, I wouldn't frequent any business[[es) or establishment[[s) which he owns. Which makes me wonder why people who don't like the policies of a particular establishment or would bother going there at all?

It's like willingly going to a "T-Bar" and complaining should a stray nipple pass your way.

Wouldn't make much sense, now would it?

Wouldn't make a darn bit of sense! LOL!

[soulster]

All you have to do is look at our politicians to see that adults acting like kids is nothing unusual. If you worked with the general public, you see that the world is full of kids.

[ms_m]

:)....good to see you Juice, you and your post have been sorely missed. Hope all is well.

[juicefree20]

LaDonna...

Moderating a forum is easy??? Do you really believe that?

The truth is that one of the most difficult job of ANY manager is the MODERATING of people.

There are just too many personalities, too many quirks & as pointed out earlier, you simply can't deal with everyone exactly the same way, no more than you can deal with every employee,nor every family member the same way.

A person who deals with EVERYONE the same exact way runs the risk of being too rigid, unyielding, unwilling to compromise & those aren't desirable traits in this day & age.

I had a very short-lived forum & the hardest thing in the world is when YOUR FRIENDS can't put THEIR egos aside for even 3 minutes, then you have to figure out a way to appease everyone, as they're all your friends. And lo & behold, there'll always be one whom no matter how many times you speak with them privately simply CANNOT restrain themselves in any shape, way or form & therein the problem lies. When your friends won't try to make your life easier, what can you expect from anyone else?

Yet we blame the kids for being so warped & out-of-step with all that's righteous. I wonder why? 40 & 50 years-olds come here & have been playing out the internet version of "The Bloods Vs. The Crips'' over music, but the kids have it all wrong for acting as they do.

Well...ok!

My problem with understanding your situation is that it's vague in nature. You're levelling a charge & I haven't an idea as to what you're referring to.

Now if you're suggesting that Ralph is unfair, I don't know that I'll agree. And if you're suggesting that Ralph favors his "buddies", I'll point out that most of us are wired that way. I'll also point out that Ralph & I have been more than friendly for quite some time now. Despite this, there was a situation where I thought that a fellow forumer wasgoing out of their way to post inflammatory & somewhat racist posts abput President Obama, despite our friendship, he didnt jump on my bandwagon & jump over that forumer as I publicly suggested that he should.

And I didn't get mad at Ralph, nor decide he was no longer a "good" guy. Ralph had his opinion, I had mine & when all was said & done, it was Ralph's call to make & I was cool with that. I didn't agree, but I wasn't going to declare him "Public Enemy # 1" for not agreeing with me.

Now there was a time here when I saw people baited in plain sight, then when they responded, a cry for their banishment would arise. There was a time here when if ''certain'people didn't like you, you were as good as gone. Myself & a few others were almost victimized by this on one occasion, over a joke thread & on another occasion, because we all didn't salute a certain project. It was said that if we didn't speak out in support of this project that we should be banned & the fact that we didn't bow down in support of a few involved only made the cry louder.

THAT'S how it USED to be here at times & most long-time members here know exactly what I'm speaking of.

And how can Ralph ever please everyone when I myself have seen people complaining about the behavior of SOME members, when they are guilty of baiting said member[[s) & starting arguments themselves?

And most often, it's been those members whom have been crying out to Ralph to ban others, despite the fact that the pages of this forum have often proven them to be the stirrers of the drink. Not to mention a few of their more errr..."RESPECTED" members, one of whom in my mind comes here as nothing less than a wolf in sheeps clothing, given their propensity to make excuse for the behavior of a few [[chalking their behavior up to being merely ''jokes'), while curiously always finding themselves in the position of stirring up quite a few gallons of manure in their own right.

I digress...

Exactly how should Ralph proceed given the tendency of some to act up, then reappear under new pseudonyms? Personally speaking, folks should be quite happy that Ralph's running things because i'd have drop-kicked several people from here a long time ago, ESPECIALLY the folks who stir manure while attempting to tell us whom are "voices of reason", while kicking around mucho doo-doo themselves on the sneak.

After 5 or 6 years, it's gets rather tiresome watching the SAME exact people having the SAME exact arguments over the same B.S. over & over & over & over & over...

Personally, I just don't have that kind of patience for foolishness. There's a real world out here with REAL problems.

TO my obviously warped way of thinking, my favorite singer just doesn't factor into the problems of the world, which is something which some here have decided to turn into their own internet version of "War & Peace" or The hatfields Vs The McCoys.

Just strikes me that somepriorities need some serious reassessment, is all.

Again, just one persons opinion.

[ms_m]

whoa, you're quick...jumped to page 3 before I knew it...let me try this again...hahaha



:)....good to see you Juice, you and your post have been sorely missed. Hope all is well.

[ladonna]

Sorry, Juice; I've done it before. Pretty simple. Set the ground rules, and dole them out fairly and equally. Simple. Of course, like I've stated, many folks will make even the most simple of tasks complicated. I think it is because many folks don't feel empowered and/or validated in their personal lives.

[juicefree20]

Soulster:

My point exactly!

[juicefree20]

Ms. M:

Good to see you & all is as good as can be asked for.

On another note, I'm sorry that I missed Ronnie last weekend. If I had found out a bit earlier I would've made arrangements to be there, if only to say ''hi''.

[ms_m]

My bad Juice I should have contacted you. HE NEEDS TO CALL YOU anyway and I got on him about that!!!!!

[juicefree20]

Ms. m:

I understand everything perfectly & Ronnie Mac is as good as gold with me :)

[ms_m]

I know Juice but still....

listen, give me a call when you can, we're do for a catch up session anyway.

[ms_m]

and that would be "due"....hahahaha

some things never change:)

[juicefree20]

LaDonna:

I lost the post that I was going to write. I'll still say that moderating can be a slippery slope & frankly, can be a frustrating, time-consuming & ultimately, a thankless job. Sometimesit's difficult to moderate a family of four, how much more a forum of thousands?

Here's the "Cliff's Notes" of my stricken post...

I believe that if you check back through the archives, you'll discover that Ralph has usually been fair & balanced & has usually allowed people to police themselves. If he appears to be different these days it's likely because hes fed-up with certain folks & their behavior.

And remember too, not everyone does their dirt or create trouble while screaming, cursing or using a hammer. Some do it concealed with a velvet glove, some do it with a smile. Some do it using a hairpin, but a hairpin inserted into the spine still elicits the desired effect.

I'm not sure where this particular problem stems from, but I can truthfully say that I've been around since the days when all that it took to get railroaded out of here was to anger the wrong person by simply responding back to the in the same manner in which they responded to you. There was a time here when you were supposed to know "your place" & bow down to the proper authorities & anything less than self-emasculation was tantamount to having a bulls-eye planted firmly on your back.

I saw that happen to others, which is how I learned how to avoid the one painted on my own back.

After all that I've seen in 9+ years here, I simply don't believe that you give Ralph enough credit. Truth-be-told, things here are more fair & balanced now than they were in 2005 or 2006.

Ask me & a few others [[2 whom had their accounts jacked) how we know. And 'fair'' & ''balanced'' as things were back then, we would've been banned had if not been for Ralph's own sense of fairness, an act which cost him several errr...''friends". It seems that a person can back folks 99 times out of 100, but the one time those same folks don't get their way, all that anyone ever chooses to remember is the one time that they didn't get their way & now that same person is now a ''bum''. People tend to be that way sometimes.

You may not agree with some of his decisions, but a man who has no sense of fairness simply doesn't risk alienating friends & people whom he's worked with by standing up for others when they're right.

T'was not always so around these parts & I have the threads that prove it.

[juicefree20]

Ms. M:

As I said, you & Ronnie Mac are good as gold with me. Don't even sweat it, it's not that serious. As they say, ish happens :)

[juicefree20]

Ms. M...

Cool. Ill give you a ring tomorrow. I went to The 70's Soul Jam yesterday & had to set someone right about some info that they had been told. More about that tomorrow.

[ms_m]

LOL....I got that part but seriously, we really are due ...actually overdue for a catch up session....lots happening...ya dig?:)

[ms_m]

okee dokee...have to monitor an interview @ 2 and will be tied up for about 30-40 mins or so but after that it's all good.

[juicefree20]

Cool. Consider it a date :)

[soulster]

If Ralph were to get help moderating, I would suggest that he get someone who doesn't have any friends, or isn't part of the few cliques around here. That's a tough one because that person would still have to know the people and the culture. But, this kind of brings it back around to defining the rules in explicit terms and abiding by them. A lager forum kind of demands more stringent guidelines.

Juice, the same people who act as the voice of reason and act humble are the same pot-stirrers. Perhaps they are pitching for a moderator job with the smile on their face and a knife in the hand hidden behind the back.

I have bona-fide suggestions and opinions, but have well-confessed my impatience with a certain band of people, whom act more like trolls.

As to people having differences, I think people should attempt to address specific issues that hurt them and work them out. It's not immature to feel hurt by others. It is not immature to have a desire to resolve issues with other members or even the moderator.

[ralpht]

WOW! The thread had grown since I left it last night.
Ladonna, I don't think you could handle the moderating job here. I'm not trying to put you down [[as you do me) its just that this place takes a certain amount of finesse to run that can only be learned over time. And I've put in the time. I would never compare myself to President Obama, but when he mentioned that he was getting better at his job, I could relate. There were times in the past that I later realized I could have done things better or maybe said something a little different, but I am, after all, human. You keep mentioning that I don't know the rules. That makes me smile. The rules are really quite simple when boiled down to their basic nature. Behave like an adult. How tough is that?
The people you see on this thread supporting me have been my friends for a very good while now, and its not like we have'nt bumped into one another along the way. Ask Ms.M. She was the most worthy opponent that you would never get close to being. That girl can dance. You have two left feet, so to speak. That probably goes, pretty much, with all that have posted on this thread. You're just not in their league and therefore I would never hire you as a moderator.
I did take the time to check your profile and noticed you live in San Francisco. A mere stone's throw from me in Monterey. If you come down this way from time to time, I would love meeting you somewhere for coffee and a good face to face knock down drag out, but still no job offer.
Once again, to all my friends who have given me their support, a very heartfelt thank you.

[BobC]

Why do people take this crap so seriously? It's an internet forum--that's all it is.

[ralpht]

So true, Bob. So true.

[roger]

So true, Bob. So true.

But its not just an internet forum it's an M&S [[Motown and Soul) Internet Forum!!

:)

Roger

P.S. .. you probably have to be British to understand the joke, so here is a clue for the rest of you ..

http://www.marksandspencer.com/

[soulster]

But its not just an internet forum it's an M&S [[Motown and Soul) Internet Forum!!

:)

Roger

P.S. .. you probably have to be British to understand the joke, so here is a clue for the rest of you ..

http://www.marksandspencer.com/


I still don't get it.

[BobC]

I hang out in fossil hunting forums, True Crime forums, and music forums--and believe it or not fighting goes on in all of them. I just ignore it--unless its comical. Fossil hunters are the most pretentious, egotistical people you'll ever hear braying on a forum. They all know EVERYTHING.

[soulster]

I hang out in fossil hunting forums, True Crime forums, and music forums--and believe it or not fighting goes on in all of them. I just ignore it--unless its comical. Fossil hunters are the most pretentious, egotistical people you'll ever hear braying on a forum. They all know EVERYTHING.

I personally know one. He's my eighth-grade social studies and drama teacher. But, he's a cool guy.

Your link was that of a clothes store or something. That's what I didn't get.

[roger]

I still don't get it.

Aha Soulster .. M&S have food halls that sell very good quality [[if pricy) food and have had a long running UK TV Ad campaign in which it is explained that, for example, the tub of blueberries is "not just a tub of blueberries, it's a tub of M&S blueberries" or the creme caramel dessert "isn't just a creme caramel dessert it's an M&S creme caramel dessert" .. and so on .. and so on ..

Roger

[juicefree20]

LaDonna,

I just wanted to point out something which will underscore some of the points that I've been trying to make here.

I've been away from the forum lately, so I decided to visit the "Motown" section, the "Diana Ross Receives Grammy" thread specifically, which I knew would serve to prove my point. As usual, those Motown threads are the gift that keeps giving.

You're saying that Ralph doesnt apply rules evenly & fairly, yet in that thread, on the one page that I read both you & another individual chose to call out a fellow forumer in that thread. When I live, that is generally regarded as a practice known as "baiting", something designed to either cause embarrassment for someone or to elicit a negative response from that person.

The point being is how can you complain about the stench coming from another when your own hands are covered with shit right up to the elbows? How anyone complain about Ralph when they obviously enjoy playing the game of "Tit For Tat" themselves? HelenKellerin braille can see the digs being taken in that thread, yet Ralph's said nothing. He said nothing to you, said nothing to anyone else. And while Marv made a statement about Clive's party being a yearly event, I don't see where he called out any specific forum member, nor somuch as uttered any specific forum member by name.

Can you say the same thing?

You're asserting that Ralph's not applying the same rules evenly & equally. But even though you & others took DIRECT shots & digs at Marv, from your posts last night I can see that as ''unfair'' as Ralph is you're still here, Marv's still here & so are those who took their digs at Marv directly.

It simply seems to me that it's more than a little hypocritical for anyone to scream about ''injustice'' when they're willing participants in misbehavior themselves.

So I guess that my question then becomes, upon which of those who took clear digs at Marv in that thread should Ralph begin dispensing ''equal'' justice?

From where I sit all of this appears to be a case of "hit dog holler''. Nothing less & nothing more.

Truthfully, the biggest problem with all of this is simply that some 40 - 50 year-olds simply haven't come to grips with the fact that it's possible to be a fan without behaving as FANATICS & those five letters at the end makes all of the difference in the world. Artists love fans, fanatics...not so much because fanatics sometimes fail to recognize where the real world ends & where fantasy begins.

It's a sobering thought to consider that John Lennon & Selena [[just to name two) were murdered by one of their ''fans''. I believe that if either could speak today, they'd wish that that ''fan'' had loved them just a little less & David Bowie or Esmeralda Espana just a little bit more.

Be it Marvin Gaye, The Temptations or Rockwell, given the many great artistswho've passed through the doors of Hitsville, 900 threads about any ONE Motown artist is a bit scary to me.

[soulster]

Aha Soulster .. M&S have food halls that sell very good quality [[if pricy) food and have had a long running UK TV Ad campaign in which it is explained that, for example, the tub of blueberries is "not just a tub of blueberries, it's a tub of M&S blueberries" or the creme caramel dessert "isn't just a creme caramel dessert it's an M&S creme caramel dessert" .. and so on .. and so on ..

Roger

I guess you do have to be British to "get it"...

[soulster]

Truthfully, the biggest problem with all of this is simply that some 40 - 50 year-olds simply haven't come to grips with the fact that it's possible to be a fan without behaving as FANATICS & those five letters at the end makes all of the difference in the world. Artists love fans, fanatics...not so much because fanatics sometimes fail to recognize where the real world ends & where fantasy begins.

It's a sobering thought to consider that John Lennon & Selena [[just to name two) were murdered by one of their ''fans''. I believe that if either could speak today, they'd wish that that ''fan'' had loved them just a little less & David Bowie or Esmeralda Espana just a little bit more.

Be it Marvin Gaye, The Temptations or Rockwell, given the many great artistswho've passed through the doors of Hitsville, 900 threads about any ONE Motown artist is a bit scary to me.

Beautifully written!

You know, if you put all of the Diana Ross fans on your ignore list, the forum would shrink.

[marv2]

LaDonna,

I just wanted to point out something which will underscore some of the points that I've been trying to make here.

I've been away from the forum lately, so I decided to visit the "Motown" section, the "Diana Ross Receives Grammy" thread specifically, which I knew would serve to prove my point. As usual, those Motown threads are the gift that keeps giving.

You're saying that Ralph doesnt apply rules evenly & fairly, yet in that thread, on the one page that I read both you & another individual chose to call out a fellow forumer in that thread. When I live, that is generally regarded as a practice known as "baiting", something designed to either cause embarrassment for someone or to elicit a negative response from that person.

The point being is how can you complain about the stench coming from another when your own hands are covered with shit right up to the elbows? How anyone complain about Ralph when they obviously enjoy playing the game of "Tit For Tat" themselves? HelenKellerin braille can see the digs being taken in that thread, yet Ralph's said nothing. He said nothing to you, said nothing to anyone else. And while Marv made a statement about Clive's party being a yearly event, I don't see where he called out any specific forum member, nor somuch as uttered any specific forum member by name.

Can you say the same thing?

You're asserting that Ralph's not applying the same rules evenly & equally. But even though you & others took DIRECT shots & digs at Marv, from your posts last night I can see that as ''unfair'' as Ralph is you're still here, Marv's still here & so are those who took their digs at Marv directly.

It simply seems to me that it's more than a little hypocritical for anyone to scream about ''injustice'' when they're willing participants in misbehavior themselves.

So I guess that my question then becomes, upon which of those who took clear digs at Marv in that thread should Ralph begin dispensing ''equal'' justice?

From where I sit all of this appears to be a case of "hit dog holler''. Nothing less & nothing more.

Truthfully, the biggest problem with all of this is simply that some 40 - 50 year-olds simply haven't come to grips with the fact that it's possible to be a fan without behaving as FANATICS & those five letters at the end makes all of the difference in the world. Artists love fans, fanatics...not so much because fanatics sometimes fail to recognize where the real world ends & where fantasy begins.

It's a sobering thought to consider that John Lennon & Selena [[just to name two) were murdered by one of their ''fans''. I believe that if either could speak today, they'd wish that that ''fan'' had loved them just a little less & David Bowie or Esmeralda Espana just a little bit more.

Be it Marvin Gaye, The Temptations or Rockwell, given the many great artistswho've passed through the doors of Hitsville, 900 threads about any ONE Motown artist is a bit scary to me.


As they say in some churches when the truth has clearly been spoken, "WELL".............

[marv2]

Beautifully written!

I am telling you. He is truly amazing that's why I wished he'd post more often!

[phil]

Behave like an adult.


The thread was :Site's Rules of Conduct? It's a perfect reply Ralph !

[ralpht]

It sure isn't rocket science, Phil. Except maybe to a select few.

[ralpht]

Hey Juice,
I gotta be straight up honest with you. I haven't looked at any of the Diana Ross threads. I rarely check out any Supremes thread either. I know what trouble lurks within, and usually rely on forum members to alert me of a problem. Which, in a sense, settles the moderator question. You are all moderators and those of you that treat this place with respect will not stand for someone to mess it up. This has been working rather well and I urge all members to feel free to contact me when the fog comes in.

[marv2]

Oh! If photos count, mine is on my profile; although, I hardly see the relevance to this thread, soulster.

Thanks for the shout out, but let's not get dramatic, no one is trying to force anything. I am simply offering up a few ideas that could make the SDF experience more enjoyable for all. Are y'all this defensive in your personal lives.

Once again, Ralph; if you need a break, I'm your gal!

Ladonna, help me understand something. Why do you persist in playing games and wasting people's time here? That picture you have up on your profile here is the same tired picture that MissLish, aka Divilious, etc has been using for years on her profiles elsewhere and claiming that she is a "woman" living in Denver, Colorado. Why are you doing this? Ralph had to banned MissLish last year. Are you saying that you are MissLish?

[soulster]

Hey Juice,
I gotta be straight up honest with you. I haven't looked at any of the Diana Ross threads. I rarely check out any Supremes thread either. I know what trouble lurks within, and usually rely on forum members to alert me of a problem. Which, in a sense, settles the moderator question. You are all moderators and those of you that treat this place with respect will not stand for someone to mess it up. This has been working rather well and I urge all members to feel free to contact me when the fog comes in.

I did say earlier that I feel it is a member's responsibility to report issues. If someone doesn't report a problem, it means that they either want to see the trainwreck, or they plan to participate in it. The problem is that too many of the good people just back away and stay quiet, thinking that silence and ignoring things work.

[juicefree20]

Soulster:

Personally, I have nothing against Diana Ross, nor most Diana Ross fans. Diana Ross deserves her props because Diana's record of achievement speaks for itself & there's nothing that can be said on an internet forum which will, nor could ever change that. Diana Ross needs no defending from anyone here as her accomplishments are written in stone. Though times change & sand shifts, as regards the world of entertainment, as well the era in which Diana helped to make a small label in Detroit the fulcrum of class, taste, style & great music, Diana, Flo, Mary & even Cindy as a collective will always be BIG NEWS. They've earned that stature & earned it the hard way.

My thing is that I guess that I was just too young to fixate on any one Supreme, I loved them all & believed that ALL of them were important.And being a young boy back then, I was never oohing & ahhing over the gowns that they wore, or their jewels. I just never viewed them in that light. All that I know is that in a world full of Angels & Shangri-Las, I finally saw 3 girls who looked as though they could've been my cousins or aunts, on-stage, singing great, looking fine & doing their damn thing.

THAT was what made them special for me. The fact that thousands of girls could turn on Hollywood Palace, Ed Sullivan or Shindig & see 3 young ladies whom looked like them, whom could make them believe that their dreams could also come true. The Supremes....ALL of The Supremes were a tremendous source of pride, just as were their male counterparts, The Temptations. And during that time frame, in that crazy era of American history, they helped to knock down racial barriers which certainly helped some previously unenlightened people view us in a different light & that was no small feat.

The only problem that I really have with Supreme fans, as I do with other groups is this inane ide that every song that emanated from their lips is a thing of perfection, that out of the hundreds of songs that they've released, that EVERY one of them have been knocked out of the park. More than that, I dislike the idea that should anyone actually say this, they get offended as though you've molested the family dog & the town virgin & then want to have a big fight. If so, here's one for you...

I DON'T like every song that they've ever recorded, no more than I like every song that folks such as Sam Cooke, James Brown, The Temptations or even The Dells made. I was a James Brown fan & when I was about 9 years-old, I would've argued with anyone who would've dared to say such a thing. How dare they. But guess what...

I'm not 9 years-old anymore, neither is anyone else here & the calendar now says 2012, which renders my immaturity & everyone else's to be at least 3 decades beyond its need to exist. Martial law won't be declared should any of us acknowledge that our favorite artist has flaws or shows signs of NORMAL human frailty, traits which all of us humans suffer with. It's that very inability to admit such which always drags these discussions down to the level of 3rd graders arguing that ''my dad's bigger than your dad'' crap.

What it comes down to is this...I'm not perfect, my mama ain't perfect, my daddy sure ain't perfect & neither are any of us, INCLUDING the stars whom we love. We're all flesh & blood who've lived or are living in a very cold, unfriendly & very contentious world, trying to make it the best way that we know how.

Most times, it's not what you SAY that defines you, but rather what you DO that does. And as I've said here on many occasions, there are exactly ZERO innocents here. At times, not even myself. The truth is that you are what your actions prove you to be. And anyone calling themselves a ''peacemaker'' or a ''voice of reason'', or ''respected'' yet is ALWAYS amongst the first to take shots at people, while complaining about about the shots that their target takes at them & others, then guess what?

You're anything but a ''peacemaker'' or ''reasonable''. You're just another shit-stirring pot calling the kettle black.

And you're one of the reasons why things don't get better here. It won't get better because in truth, you don't really care if it does or doesn't.

It's bad enough to see teenagers trying to raise their idols [[which is a VERY bad descriptive to begin with) to the level of ''Gods'' & 'Goddesses".If that is true, then how much worse is it for 40 to 60 year-old whom otherwise consider themselves to be rational, reasonable, intelligent & [[watch for the hook...)MATURE adults to behave in such a manner?

Of course, I don't expect anyone to actually cop to this, nor admit, much less change their behavior. But then again, why would I expect a baby not to cry, a wolf not to howl or a cow not to moo?

Sometimes, it is what is is. But what I will say is that Ralph shouldn't need to ban anyone & he shouldn't need to tell grown folks how to act. The mere suggestion that Ralph should have to oversee the same few people over & over & the fact that some of the people who have been crying out for regulation while damn near ALWAYS being amongst the first to willing cast the first stone is indictment enough for most of us. The idea that Ralph should have to oversee anyone should be offensive to us all. Especially when often times the ones calling for his intervention are guilty of committing the same offenses. Sorry, but that's simply hypocritical.

Especially since one of the stirrers has never seen an opportunity to take their own shots that they'd pass up. And THAT, ladies & gentlemen only ensures that the proverbial shit will continue to flow.

And so it goes :)

[juicefree20]

By the way Ralph, I want you to know that i didn't bring that thread up in order to call it to your attention, as it's really not that severe. I brought up that thread simply to make a point, the point being that while you're being accused of not employing a level playing field, that folks are somewhat in violation of the very "Terms & Conditions" that they want you to enforce across the board for all.

I just found it to be a bit ironic, that's all.

[Hotspurman]

Aha Soulster .. M&S have food halls that sell very good quality [[if pricy) food and have had a long running UK TV Ad campaign in which it is explained that, for example, the tub of blueberries is "not just a tub of blueberries, it's a tub of M&S blueberries" or the creme caramel dessert "isn't just a creme caramel dessert it's an M&S creme caramel dessert" .. and so on .. and so on ..

Roger

Or put another [[British) way - If Carlsberg did Motown Internet Forums, they'd be the best Motown Internet Forums in the world!

[juicefree20]

Marv,

The truth of the matter is that I've had to scale everything back a great deal because I need to keep a closer eye on my mother. Between everyone's schedule, plus spending as much time as is humanly possible with my grandson, I just have to put a lot of things on the backburner for now & that included shows. I went to The Beacon the other day, but I was determined to make that a date with my lady, as I'm sure that it's no fun for her to watch a show by herself while I'm all over the place shooting a show.

Because of this, I'm not really in a music frame of mind & in terms of meaningful contributions, would leave me with very little to offer right now. Cmbined with the usual bluster & assorted B.S. found on the internet these days, I'm just not in an internet chat frame of mind these days.

Which is why I'm rarely here nor on Facebook very often these days.

It could be that after 9 years of non-stop internet, I simply need to be away from it for awhile.

[BobC]

Ralph--thanks for putting up with us.

[soulster]

Hold on, Juice!

Don't go off on me now! I really think you have misinterpreted what I have written about "peacemakers" and "pot stirrers", didn't read my post carefully, or are confusing me with someone else. I also never claimed to be innocent. Keep it straight, bro! Although some of us are praising you with wise words, you too are also coming off as some sort of "voice of reason". I also don't think you have the right to judge my intent or frame of mind regarding what I think I want to get better around here. I'm glad to know you know more about me than myself. You're right. You aren't perfect, either.

I have admitted I am no saint, but, neither are you. I like and respect you, but cut the high and mighty crap.

Now: I don't have a problem with Diana Ross either. I am just annoyed by the level of fanaticism of her fans on this forum, and that goes for any artist on any forum. Sorry. Sometimes I do post about it all in jest, but they really DO get on my nevres. It's ALWAYS about Diana Ross & The Supremes or Mary Wilson!

I was about the same age as you during the 60s. I didn't care who sang what, what they looked like, or anything else but their music. I cared about the songs. Period.

[selinasian]

Or put another [[British) way - If Carlsberg did Motown Internet Forums, they'd be the best Motown Internet Forums in the world!
LOL!
I'm just partaking of a Carlsberg myself.

[marv2]

Marv,

The truth of the matter is that I've had to scale everything back a great deal because I need to keep a closer eye on my mother. Between everyone's schedule, plus spending as much time as is humanly possible with my grandson, I just have to put a lot of things on the backburner for now & that included shows. I went to The Beacon the other day, but I was determined to make that a date with my lady, as I'm sure that it's no fun for her to watch a show by herself while I'm all over the place shooting a show.

Because of this, I'm not really in a music frame of mind & in terms of meaningful contributions, would leave me with very little to offer right now. Cmbined with the usual bluster & assorted B.S. found on the internet these days, I'm just not in an internet chat frame of mind these days.

Which is why I'm rarely here nor on Facebook very often these days.

It could be that after 9 years of non-stop internet, I simply need to be away from it for awhile.

Well ok then. I do understand all of that and hope that your Mom is doing well. How is big boy? Your grandson? Walking yet?

[marv2]

Hold on, Juice!

Don't go off on me now! I really think you have misinterpreted what I have written about "peacemakers" and "pot stirrers", didn't read my post carefully, or are confusing me with someone else. I also never claimed to be innocent. Keep it straight, bro! Although some of us are praising you with wise words, you too are also coming off as some sort of "voice of reason". I also don't think you have the right to judge my intent or frame of mind regarding what I think I want to get better around here. I'm glad to know you know more about me than myself. You're right. You aren't perfect, either.

I have admitted I am no saint, but, neither are you. I like and respect you, but cut the high and mighty crap.

Now: I don't have a problem with Diana Ross either. I am just annoyed by the level of fanaticism of her fans on this forum, and that goes for any artist on any forum. Sorry. Sometimes I do post about it all in jest, but they really DO get on my nevres. It's ALWAYS about Diana Ross & The Supremes or Mary Wilson!

I was about the same age as you during the 60s. I didn't care who sang what, what they looked like, or anything else but their music. I cared about the songs. Period.


Soulster, I can promise you that he is not referring to you. I know exactly whom he is speaking about.

[soulster]

Soulster, I can promise you that he is not referring to you. I know exactly whom he is speaking about.

Oh no! He addressed his post to ME. But, that's OK. I'm used to people going after me. I've administered it, I can take it...when it's deserved. But, there are others who have shown me that they can't take what they dish very well.

Last week, or so, I was on a thread where I honestly wanted to know why this forum had an large population of a certain group of people here. Apparently, some saw that as offensive and complained, so Ralph removed it , but I was not trying to be offensive in any way. I seriously wanted to know. Only one person was willing to give me some insight. That was not pot-stirring. It's just that this whole Supremes/Ross-obsession mystifies me. I really do not understand the level of obsession towards those, and certain other famous women. I am not in that world, so I don't know.

[ladonna]

Sorry Ralph ; that was a put down; you know very little about me or my abilities, and yet once again, you appear to arbitrairily reach a conclusion. I mentioned that you didn't know the ause you made that declaration yourself. LOL!! Seriously, how can any one be effective if the are unaware of the guidelines? LOL! Starting to be redundant.

Amend let's be clear, I actually have no interest in being an moderator here, but. Soulster challenged me if I thought I could do a better job, and he is absolutely correct, if I gonna raise the issue, I had better be ready to walk the walk. I am; the offer still stands.

I am not often in Monterey; however, I am in Los Angeles, and maintain a residence in NYC

[ladonna]

I am in Los Angeles quite often, and maintain a residence in NYC; are you ever in the San Francisco area? We should exchange contact info; I'd love to meet you ..

[soulster]

It's good for one to know one's limits and shortcomings.

[ladonna]

Bob C.? I can't speak for everyone, but Ralph was very rude to me when I first joined, I have also witnessed home being rude to others; I take that seriously. Coming from a member, I wouldn't take it as seriously, but from the site's moderator; not cool.

[P-Shark: The Revenge]

Soulster, when Juice typed you, he wasn't targeting you in particular, he meant you as in we. You're taking "you" literally. Reread again

Most times, it's not what you SAY that defines you, but rather what you DO that does. And as I've said here on many occasions, there are exactly ZERO innocents here. At times, not even myself. The truth is that you are what your actions prove you to be. And anyone calling themselves a ''peacemaker'' or a ''voice of reason'', or ''respected'' yet is ALWAYS amongst the first to take shots at people, while complaining about about the shots that their target takes at them & others, then guess what?

You're anything but a ''peacemaker'' or ''reasonable''. You're just another shit-stirring pot calling the kettle black.

And you're one of the reasons why things don't get better here. It won't get better because in truth, you don't really care if it does or doesn't.

[ladonna]

Juice, after wading through your verbiage, you have completely missed my point, as have most of the posters on this thread. I would invite all of you to re-read what I've said. My points are twofold and simple. I have stated them more than enough; please do try to read for comprehension.

[ladonna]

[QUOTE=BobC;92972]Ralph--thanks for putting up with us.[/QUOTE

Yes, Ralph; thank you for putting up with us low lifes, cretins, and undesirables; we simply are not worthy! How DARE anyone question your omnipotence!! LOL! Who ARE these people?

[soulster]

Soulster, when Juice typed you, he wasn't targeting you in particular, he meant you as in we. You're taking "you" literally. Reread again

No, here's the part:


And anyone calling themselves a ''peacemaker'' or a ''voice of reason'', or ''respected'' yet is ALWAYS amongst the first to take shots at people, while complaining about about the shots that their target takes at them & others, then guess what?

You're anything but a ''peacemaker'' or ''reasonable''. You're just another shit-stirring pot calling the kettle black.

And you're one of the reasons why things don't get better here. It won't get better because in truth, you don't really care if it does or doesn't.

[ladonna]

Ladonna, help me understand something. Why do you persist in playing games and wasting people's time here? That picture you have up on your profile here is the same tired picture that MissLish, aka Divilious, etc has been using for years on her profiles elsewhere and claiming that she is a "woman" living in Denver, Colorado. Why are you doing this? Ralph had to banned MissLish last year. Are you saying that you are MissLish?



Ha! Ha! Once again, Marv2, your powers of deduction never fail to stun! Once Ralph and I have met, I'll let him inform you about my gender status. LOLOLOLOL!! Good try though! I'm sorry you didn't enjoy my profile photo, but I would hardly chaharacterize it as "tired." ;0)

[ralpht]

Well gang, I can only absorb so much fat-mouthing from someone who may not be who she says she is. I banned her....for life...I wonder who "she" will resurface as?

[marv2]

Well gang, I can only absorb so much fat-mouthing from someone who may not be who she says she is. I banned her....for life...I wonder who "she" will resurface as?

Ralph this is who she "Ladonna" is! Aka MissLish. As bizarre as this is going to sound, it has been explained to me that "she" may not even be a "she" but a guy. I am not trying to understand people do this, try to destroy this forum.

[soulster]

Well gang, I can only absorb so much fat-mouthing from someone who may not be who she says she is. I banned her....for life...I wonder who "she" will resurface as?

A screen name of "Miss Troll"? :)

[Roberta75]

A screen name of "Miss Troll"? :)

What a gentleman. NOT!!!!

[soulster]

What a gentleman. NOT!!!!

It was a joke!

[ralpht]

Yeah, I think we were being played. Juice, I don't understand it either. Kind of sad when you think about it.

[Roberta75]

It was a joke!


Calling someone a troll is not funny IMO.

Seems like a lot of ganging up and sucking up paid off. Wonder who's next?

Roberta

[juicefree20]

Soulster,

Indeed I addressed you but when I did, I was responding to your addition about the removal of Diana Ross fans leading to an empty forum. That's why I opened my remarks with the references to The Supremes.

Now as Marv said, I wasn't referring to you & perhaps the fact that I didn't separate my thoughts may have led you to believe otherwise & if so, I apologize for my lack of clarity. I thought that given the fact I spoke about this previously & have said similar words when these dust-ups occur, that it was rather clear the parties whom I was referring to. After all, we've had numerous dust-ups on this forum about this very same topic.

I also thought that by referring to things which was going on in ''The Supremes'' thread it was clear that I was only referring to the people & their actions in that thread, people who tend to champion the banning of someone, let's say Marv, for example, while doing the SAME EXACT THINGS which they accuse him of doing.

Now re-read what I wrote again & please explain to me how you could possibly believe that I'm going off on you for behavior that you didn't practice in the thread that I mentioned & I was very specific about it.

Again, perhaps I assumed that everyone could connect the dots with this situation which has been occurring here for years. If my assuming otherwise led you to believe that I was referring to you in anything that I wrote aside from the remarks about The Supremes fans, then I apologize for being so vague about the matter. But in no way was I referring to you in my assessment.

[ralpht]

Roberta...WHAT!

[Roberta75]

Roberta...WHAT!

I don't think calling someone a troll is funny Ralph.

[juicefree20]

LaDonna,

Verbiage...I like that :)

Either way here's the bottom line...you & others are guilty of practicing some stirring of your own & keeping the pot boiling. Perhaps if a few of you would simply refrain from keeping the fires going & act like the classy, intelligent & refined adults that I keep reading that you are, we could've put an end to this crap YEARS ago.

But you don't, you won't & here we are bringing in yet another New Year, with the same old garbage. Where where I sit we call B.S. exactly what it is...B.S. And constantly carping to Ralph while doing the same thing[[s) that you accuse others of doing is exactly that...B.S.

On another note, your complaint against Ralph is very vague. You still haven't pointed out what offense[[s) occurred, nor have you pointed out where. Now I'm pointing out specific things that I see and/or have witnessed. You tell me to re-read what you said in order to better comprehend what you've said But that's exactly the point...you aren't saying anything. You've levelled an accusation, but haven't defined what Ralph's offenses against you, nor anyone else. Perhaps if you were more specific about your gripe[[s), I could understand your point.

On a brighter note, I didn't have to edit this message for excessive verbiage. Hopefully it will meet with your approval.

[juicefree20]

Marv,

Destroying the forum is a little deep. If this forum can be destroyed over arguments over musical groups, then we're in serious trouble.

[BobC]

Ladonna, simmer down there, Sweetpants. Ralph has been very nice to me, and I think you secretly love him. You're just being coy.

[juicefree20]

Ralph,

Nah...no one was played. It was nothing more than business as usual & if the person is indeed the same person that Marv says that they are, then both you & I both have been fried together in that particular wok years ago.

And if what Marv says is correct, it's even funnier to consider that even though I've seen some pretty errr...unpleasant things written about myself there, that I never allowed what was written outside of these doors cause me to start an argument with them inside of these doors. In fact, considering that I personally read some of the less than nice things that was written about quite a few of us elsewhere, I've been quite cordial & didn't take any of it to heart.

I don't know, I'm just not into writing or saying things over the internet that I couldn't say in public. Beyond that, I think that it's cowardly to talk about people or instigate a fight, if I'm not going to put my own name to it. If I feel a certain way about someone, I want them to know how I feel about it & not some unnamed pseudonym.

Barring state secrets, if I'm going to say something over the internet that moves me to have to use a pseudonym, then most likely it's something that I really shouldn't be saying at all.

But maybe it's just me.

[marv2]

Those guys in the "Diana Ross" threads always refer to anyone with an opposing view of her as a "troll". Your friend RossHolloway routinely admonishes you all to "not to feed the trolls" and you say nothing. In fact, you are known for ganging up and piling on those you and the others disagree concerning "Miss Ross"! Miss Ross for pete sakes LOL! So don't even try it Roberta, you are looking pretty hypocritical here at this moment my friend.......

[marv2]

Ok I should have said destroying the peace and tranquility of this forum by always personally attacking other forum members for not agreeing with them.

[marv2]

I don't think calling someone a troll is funny Ralph.

RossHolloway :

Senior Member Join Date Aug 2010
Posts 646

You really should just ignore the trolls, they just feed off of the attention that you give them.

Originally Posted by Roberta75:

There isn't a day goes passed that he doesn't talk about Diane Ross but he doesn't care. Right. LOL

Now Roberta the above is just one example. If you really feel the way that you say you feel about people calling others "trolls", then why didn't you say something against it in your conversation with RossHolloway? Your "LOL" at the end of your response here to RossHolloway looks like you are laughing about his calling someone a "troll".



Marv

[soulster]

I haven't seen this much activity on this forum in one day since I can remember!

[soulster]

Calling someone a troll is not funny IMO.


It is when it's the truth.

[soulster]

Soulster,

Indeed I addressed you but when I did, I was responding to your addition about the removal of Diana Ross fans leading to an empty forum. That's why I opened my remarks with the references to The Supremes.


It was in jest, but probably not too far from the truth. I guess not too many people have a sense of humor around here.

[soulster]

Soulster,

Indeed I addressed you but when I did, I was responding to your addition about the removal of Diana Ross fans leading to an empty forum. That's why I opened my remarks with the references to The Supremes.

Now as Marv said, I wasn't referring to you & perhaps the fact that I didn't separate my thoughts may have led you to believe otherwise & if so, I apologize for my lack of clarity. I thought that given the fact I spoke about this previously & have said similar words when these dust-ups occur, that it was rather clear the parties whom I was referring to. After all, we've had numerous dust-ups on this forum about this very same topic.

I also thought that by referring to things which was going on in ''The Supremes'' thread it was clear that I was only referring to the people & their actions in that thread, people who tend to champion the banning of someone, let's say Marv, for example, while doing the SAME EXACT THINGS which they accuse him of doing.

Now re-read what I wrote again & please explain to me how you could possibly believe that I'm going off on you for behavior that you didn't practice in the thread that I mentioned & I was very specific about it.

Again, perhaps I assumed that everyone could connect the dots with this situation which has been occurring here for years. If my assuming otherwise led you to believe that I was referring to you in anything that I wrote aside from the remarks about The Supremes fans, then I apologize for being so vague about the matter. But in no way was I referring to you in my assessment.

As you just stated, it was the way in which your thoughts weren't separated.

I don't pay too much attention to those Supremes threads, but since it was mentioned, I thought i'd take a look at the thread in question and did add a couple of remarks. I got it out of my system for a while.

We can't get rid of the Supremes fans, and I don't like to see people banned unless they are absolute trolls or totally disruptive. Even then, I like to see the mod work with them first. If it were, say, The Beatles, i'd feel the same way.

[BobC]

I feel like I'm in some bizarre psychology experiment. Are you all actually reading these paragraphs-long diatribes? I mean, seriously? I could never drum up that kind of enthusiasm for something so pointless.

If somebody's posts annoy you, don't read them. I mean who cares?

[marv2]

As you just stated, it was the way in which your thoughts weren't separated.

I don't pay too much attention to those Supremes threads, but since it was mentioned, I thought i'd take a look at the thread in question and did add a couple of remarks. I got it out of my system for a while.

We can't get rid of the Supremes fans, and I don't like to see people banned unless they are absolute trolls or totally disruptive. Even then, I like to see the mod work with them first. If it were, say, The Beatles, i'd feel the same way.


Soulster, he worked with her. She was banned before for cursing him out!

[Roberta75]

Ladonna, simmer down there, Sweetpants. Ralph has been very nice to me, and I think you secretly love him. You're just being coy.

Well I must admit I do have a hankering for a strong powerful man with nice feet BobC.

Roberta

[Roberta75]

As you just stated, it was the way in which your thoughts weren't separated.

I don't pay too much attention to those Supremes threads, but since it was mentioned, I thought i'd take a look at the thread in question and did add a couple of remarks. I got it out of my system for a while.

We can't get rid of the Supremes fans, and I don't like to see people banned unless they are absolute trolls or totally disruptive. Even then, I like to see the mod work with them first. If it were, say, The Beatles, i'd feel the same way.

Thank you for that Soulster. I agree with you about banning people. We must counsel and work with Supremes fans to help show them a better way of communicating. Rehabilitation is the pathway to leading a peaceful and enriched life.

Roberta

[soulster]

Well I must admit I do have a hankering for a strong powerful man with nice feet BobC.

Roberta

Don't they make foot spray for strong feet? Oh wait....I misread what you wrote. Hahahahah!!! I kid! :)

[edafan]

Ralph,

You do a great job as it is.

Life is life.

as Eddie Kendricks said "Keep On Truckin'"

edafan

[ralpht]

Thank you edafan. I will do just that.

[imnokid]

Talk about time to close down a thread. Enough already...

[ralpht]

Yeah, I think we took his about as far as needed. I'm closing it down. Thanks everyone for participating.