dzMusica

[smark21]

Just been reading the posts in the Who is Diana Ross poll thread which has now been locked. DzMusica made some very bigoted and ignorant comments about gays in that thread. I'm not advocating s/he be banned, but s/he should be called out and identified for his or her ignorance, prejudice, closed mindedness and stupidity. And the best way I know how is to devote a thread to dzMusica.

[Sugarchilehoneybaby]

Oh, dzMusica was called out all right! Marybrewster threw bookoo shade! :)

[kenneth]

What compels someone to air their views so needlessly in a music forum? Someone comments that Diane Ross is a gay icon, and suddenly someone feels they must preach to us. Extremely inappropriate and out of place in a music forum, not to mention damned ignorant on a substantive level. There's enough blogs out there on which he can air his views; one of the nice things about this forum is that it is [[or at least should be) apolitical.

[soulster]

I do not think DzMusica said anything bigoted, but simply what he or she has been taught about how many interpret the words of the bible, which should not be taken literally.

[Roberta75]

What compels someone to air their views so needlessly in a music forum? Someone comments that Diane Ross is a gay icon, and suddenly someone feels they must preach to us. Extremely inappropriate and out of place in a music forum, not to mention damned ignorant on a substantive level. There's enough blogs out there on which he can air his views; one of the nice things about this forum is that it is [[or at least should be) apolitical.

When someone is so vehemently anti Gay, like GOP Presidential candidate Rick Santorum, the old saying "Me thinks the lady doth protest too much" always comes to mind.

I wonder if the same applies to dzMusica?

Food for thought.

Roberta

[milven]

When someone is so vehemently anti Gay, like GOP Presidential candidate Rick Santorum, the old saying "Me thinks the lady doth protest too much" always comes to mind.

I wonder if the same applies to dzMusica?

Food for thought.

Roberta

Well, there are more than a dozen ex-senators, congressmen, TV evangelists, etc who were always preaching the sins of being gay, but then got caught with their pants down in airport bathrooms, or paying male prostitutes. So, I agree. Keep an eye on those who protest too much

[kenneth]

Well, there are more than a dozen ex-senators, congressmen, TV evangelists, etc who were always preaching the sins of being gay, but then got caught with their pants down in airport bathrooms, or paying male prostitutes. So, I agree. Keep an eye on those who protest too much

Noted, but I have to ask, was the "with their pants down..." an intentional or unintentional pun? LOL.

[dianesfan_1965]

When someone is so vehemently anti Gay, like GOP Presidential candidate Rick Santorum, the old saying "Me thinks the lady doth protest too much" always comes to mind.

I wonder if the same applies to dzMusica?

Food for thought.

Roberta


I'll take a slice of that.

[milven]

Noted, but I have to ask, was the "with their pants down..." an intentional or unintentional pun? LOL.

Intentional :o:):)

[ralpht]

I'm probably about to get some complaining messages regarding this thread, but I'm going to leave it be as long as the discussion remains informative and civil.

[dzMusica]

Acting Pastor:


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7B0su97zbrA

[Roger Polhill]

This forum is for the wonderful world of Motown not bigots and God botherers.

[BobC]

Please don't ban him. I don't see his remarks as being bigotry or hatred--I see it as moral preening. This is why people like Risk Santorum constantly attack gay people--it scores him points in the morality department without him actually having to do anything moral. How convenient. And gay people, being a fairly small population, can be bullied so he goes for it. When I hear people like him and Pat Buccanan incessantly, psychotically bashing gay people, you'd think every page of the Bible is about how terrible gay people are. In reality there are exactly two small passages, one the opinion of Paul, and the other is in the Old Testament, which, of course, most Christians say they threw out when Christ was born. EXCEPT when it comes to bullying gays.

All that being said, gay people should not bully people who say stupid anti-gay crap. The way certain unelected gay "leaders" attacked Laura Schlessinger disgusted me. She said homosexuals were mistakes of nature, and gay "leaders" tried to destroy her career. That is wrong. I even wrote a letter to the Texas Triangle that was published back then, saying that gay people shouldn't become as vicious as the meanest Right Winger.

We should be nice to dzMuzica. He probably thinks he doesn't know any gay people. He'll come around.

[BobC]

Dz--may I ask you a few honest questions, and get honest answers from you?

[ralpht]

I took the liberty of editing the title. I wasn't happy with that one, no matter what one might think.

[jobeterob]

Gay bashing is illegal in many circumstances in Canada. Assault due to sexual orientation is a hate crime here. Good.

There is never any excuse to mistreat decent human beings.

[Roberta75]

I do not think DzMusica said anything bigoted, but simply what he or she has been taught about how many interpret the words of the bible, which should not be taken literally.

I disagree. DzMusica was being bigoted and very disrespectful to homosexuals. I have friends who are homosexuals and what he or she said was not very nice at all.

Roberta

[Roberta75]

Well, there are more than a dozen ex-senators, congressmen, TV evangelists, etc who were always preaching the sins of being gay, but then got caught with their pants down in airport bathrooms, or paying male prostitutes. So, I agree. Keep an eye on those who protest too much

Exactly Milven. Those who doth protest too much are usually hiding something and before I take that back I will add to it.

Roberta.

[soulster]

I'm probably about to get some complaining messages regarding this thread, but I'm going to leave it be as long as the discussion remains informative and civil.

I think an open, honest...and civil discussion between straights and gays would be a good way for this thread to go, just the same as how I think the same type of discussion should happen between Blacks, Latinos, and Whites about the state of racism in the Obama era.

[144man]

I can understand if the "Who Is Diana Ross?" thread was closed because it was going off topic, but Carlo's post was reasoned so well and of such high quality that I don't see how it can be described as having deteriorated.

[BobC]

Soulster--that was what I was trying to do. If a guy grows up being completely attracted to women, then homosexuals are a complete mystery. What straight guys see are the flamboyant gays who seem to be mimicking straight women--which is not how most gay men are--but the extremes of gay life get all the attention. I have been with women and men, and I have never bought into this gay vs straight cultural crap. I know I am not "normal"--but I have gotten more crap from gay guys for not being "gay enough" than I ever got from straight people.

Roberta--I never said that guy wasn't being disrespectful. I was just trying to communicate.

[soulster]

Soulster--that was what I was trying to do. If a guy grows up being completely attracted to women, then homosexuals are a complete mystery. What straight guys see are the flamboyant gays who seem to be mimicking straight women--which is not how most gay men are--but the extremes of gay life get all the attention. I have been with women and men, and I have never bought into this gay vs straight cultural crap. I know I am not "normal"--but I have gotten more crap from gay guys for not being "gay enough" than I ever got from straight people.


My main curiosity was about why gay guys seem to dominate this forum, and why they are so enamored of straight female entertainers. Why don't they seem to like gay male entertainers? I was just wondering about this stuff, not meaning to derail that thread. Of course, when someone stepped in and started bible-thumping, that's when it turned bad.

But, I once worked with a young gay guy who was obsessed with Judy Garland. I just don't get it. It makes me, a straight guy, not want to admit liking The Wizard of Oz.

[BobC]

Soulster--I honestly don't get it either. The only time I ever found Judy Garland interesting was when they released those tapes of her drunken ramblings a few years ago. They were hilarious!

Jobete--isn't assaulting another person already illegal? Why should assaulting a gay person be worse than assaulting anybody else? I am absolutely against any kind of Hate Crime legislation. When you allow the government the power to police thought, you are entering into very ugly territory. You can bet these thought laws will never be applied to a gay person assaulting a straight person. That breeds animosity. Treat everybody the same.

[Roberta75]

My main curiosity was about why gay guys seem to dominate this forum, and why they are so enamored of straight female entertainers. Why don't they seem to like gay male entertainers? I was just wondering about this stuff, not meaning to derail that thread. Of course, when someone stepped in and started bible-thumping, that's when it turned bad.

But, I once worked with a young gay guy who was obsessed with Judy Garland. I just don't get it. It makes me, a straight guy, not want to admit liking The Wizard of Oz.

"It makes me, a straight guy, not want to admit liking The Wizard of Oz."

Are you seriously this insecure about your sexuality?

Roberta

[jillfoster]

My main curiosity was about why gay guys seem to dominate this forum, and why they are so enamored of straight female entertainers. Why don't they seem to like gay male entertainers? I was just wondering about this stuff, not meaning to derail that thread. Of course, when someone stepped in and started bible-thumping, that's when it turned bad.

But, I once worked with a young gay guy who was obsessed with Judy Garland. I just don't get it. It makes me, a straight guy, not want to admit liking The Wizard of Oz.

Soulster, that's a reasonable and honest question, and one of the great mysteries of life. Why do gay men like their divas? I just don't know. I suppose it can go hand in hand with why straight women like romance novels, why do so many straight men like football. I wish I had the answer, but don't have a clue. I DO like and am a big fan of gay male performers, various actors, singers... I do watch and listen to their stuff and follow their careers.

[copley]

You may find that this interesting article goes some way into explaining why gay men love strong women. Of course you really have to be gay man to fully understand it. Strong women in soaps suffer all the time but no matter how much their man lets them down they fight back just like a gay guy has to in order to survive. Elsie Tanner & Angie Watts being two prime examples Joan Crawford suffering in mink in 'Mildred Pierce', Celia Johnson an ordinary housewife in 'Brief Encounter', Bette Davis as Margo Channing in 'All About Eve' are all different types of divas. Females singers tell stories about the men they have loved and lost and so a gay man can identify with that scenario. Gay men love the exaggerated glamour of the likes of Dusty Springfield, Diana Ross, Madonna & Lady Gaga. Of course 99.9% have no wish to look like them, nor do all gay men like drag queens. I hope that at least some of this makes sense.

What Is This “Thing” With Gay Men and Divas?


By Stacey Patton

Some years ago, I was a personal fitness trainer at the New York Sports Club’s Sheridan Square location at the corner of Seventh Avenue and 12th Street. One evening, a well-scrubbed young gay white guy named Alan meandered into the free weights section with bad posture, low eyes, and all kinds of insecurities shut up in his bones.

Alan could have chosen any of the more beefy and experienced male trainers to help whip him into shape, but he selected me. And so began our relationship, one that would strengthen his body and elevate his sense of himself, and simultaneously give me some insight into one gay man’s affinity for strong women.

During one of our sessions, between sets of leg curls, Alan shared a story from his closeted boyhood. His seventh-grade English teacher gave his class a creative writing assignment in which each student was asked: “If you could come back as someone or something different in your next life, what or who would it be?”

Alan wanted to be reincarnated as a black woman.

“Why?” I chuckled. Though he was gay, he was still a white man. Those are some big social and political advantages, right? And how could a gay white man possibly see pieces of his own identity in black women?

He said: “I wanted to come back as a black woman, and I still do, because they can sing. They can wear hats. They are strong. And nooo-body,” he paused, waving his finger in front of his face, “ever tells a black woman to shut up!”

Looking back, I’m not sure if Alan wanted to literally morph into a woman. Instead, I think he just wanted some black woman moxie.

Alan explained that his parents owned a house in Brooklyn right across the street from a black Baptist church. Every Sunday morning he poked his head out of the bathroom window to watch all those church ladies walk by wearing their Sunday “crowns.” Those ladies’ voices sounded like they were singing into an abyss, and Alan, a member of an ostracized group pushed to the margins of American life, could feel their pain, vulnerabilities and strength in the face of unspoken adversity.

After reading his essay, Alan’s English teacher called his parents in for a conference. Concerned and confused, his parents put him through intensive psychotherapy, and he spent the rest of his childhood confined in a closet with his feelings, unlocking it only with the help of a some divas – those black church ladies and a few other Hollywood icons that helped him forge his identity and ultimately embrace his sexuality.

my-divaPaying Tribute

I thought about Alan this past Monday evening as I attended a lively Barnes and Noble panel discussion and reading of a newly-released book: My Diva: 65 Gay Men and the Women Who Inspire Them. Many of the attendees, myself included, wanted to know: what is this thing that some gay men have with divas? Why is it that a certain segment of the gay male population identifies so strongly with ladies like Judy Garland, Joan Crawford, Tina Turner, Diana Ross, Cher, Wonder Woman and Princess Leia?

Even as I write this piece, I’m having flashes of dancing in the arms of some of my gay male friends and hearing them gleefully singing “I Will Survive,” the gay man’s anthem: “At first I was afraid, I was petrified . . .” I feel my body being twirled around as they hit their favorite verse in the song: “Go on now go, walk out the door, just turn around now, you’re not welcome anymore.”

Folks standing on the periphery or many miles outside gay culture may be inclined to view such relationships between gay men and certain kinds of women as yet another form of queer spectacle, with all the trappings of big hair, makeup, glitz, glamour, flamboyance and kitsch.

Some of us might even project heterosexist assumptions and boil diva worship down to just comedic gay stereotype. From our armchairs, we could also summon Freudian analysis and say that gay men’s fascination with these female cultural icons is merely a side effect of their internal gender conflicts or evidence of some burning desire to be a woman.

But the diva phenomenon is not that simple. It’s complex. My Diva illuminates the bond between gay men and their fabulous female icons. Of course the book includes plenty of standards: Bette Midler, Liz Taylor, Marlene Dietrich and Elizabeth Taylor. But there are also some surprising choices too: Queen Elizabeth I, Virginia Woolf, Mahalia Jackson, Julia Child, and Björk.
Michael Montlack, editor of My Diva: 65 Gay Men and the Women Who Inspire Them, at a book event.

Michael Montlack, editor of My Diva: 65 Gay Men and the Women Who Inspire Them, at a book event.

The book’s editor, Michael Montlack, explained that the contributing writers, who are from various backgrounds, range from age 20 to 80, and hail from England, Ghana and New York to California, tapped into something deeper than any “campy stereotype.”

These women are singers, actresses, writers, politicians, chefs, and comediennes who have risen to the top of their fields and left their marks on society. But in the process they have also managed, unknowingly, to make an impact on the gay community, as well as on individual gay men and the closeted boys they once were. The book explores just how these women have helped to forge the identities of the writers and guided them through difficult self-discoveries and insecurities.

“They all share something in common,” said Montlack. “This special kind of love or connection, or relationship, to women they have never even met, women who have shaped their lives, inspired them to come out, given them strength, acted as role models for them, or just plain made them laugh.”

Writer Jim Elledge says, “I never wanted to be Tina Turner; I just wanted her strength, her self-assuredness, and a body I wasn’t ashamed of.”

Forest Hamer says about Mahalia Jackson, “I was listening in her voice for some sense of who I would finally be.”

And when it came to learning hard lessons about love, certain divas played the role of older sisters. For Jeff Conway, Mary J. Blige taught him how to survive love loss and how to live without love. “In my despair, there she was. My sober black sister who, apparently, had been seeing the exact same type of man . . . Together we made it through.”

In some cases, these women literally saved their lives. For editor Montlack it was the singer Stevie Nicks. Instead of turning to drugs and alcohol to deal with homophobia and ostracism and the fears of coming out, he listened to Nicks’ music and found solace in her public battles with drugs and loneliness.

“Even her struggles as a woman in a male-dominated music industry would inspire me to never limit myself because of social restrictions,” said Montlack.

Gay men idolize divas because they are vulnerable, strong, defiant, dominant and because they have the ability to liberate themselves as a new persona, above and beyond the constraints of a patriarchal misogynist world.

“The women who the gay community celebrates balance the strong and the weak, the defiant and the dominated,” says Sam J. Miller whose diva is blues singer Bessie Smith. “At once demanding and desperate, powerful and powerless, this persona has particular resonance with gay men who can identify with the sensation of victimization by patriarchy, and who can spend a lifetime developing a strong, gutsy, take-no-s#$! Attitude in spite of it.”

Of course the word diva, which derives from the Latin divus meaning “god,” the feminine being goddess, used to refer solely to female singers, the prima dona, on an opera stage. Women like Francesca Bertini, Lyda Borelli, and Pina Menichelli, all divas of the cinema, held those titles around the turn of the century. But the term has evolved, taking on new meaning and is today applied to deserving women such as Beyonce and even Britney Spears. This is to the chagrin of some who think the term has become bastardized in a rapidly deteriorating popular culture, rife with the proliferation of stock celeb reality stock characters void of any real talent.

My Diva challenges assumptions and raises interesting questions about gender identity and social politics. Now that issues such as gay marriage and adoptions are being pushed to the fore in a very public and contentious manner, will gay men continue to have a need for divas to help them escape from antagonistic surroundings? Are there male versions of the diva who inspire gay men? And what of lesbians? Do they have the same kind of fascination with popular male icons?

All of us, my friend Alan [[who eventually fell so in love with his body that he couldn’t resist checking out his reflection in store windows and puddles on the ground), and the 65 men who pay homage to their divas, in many ways live vicariously through others who face adversity and have to fight to become the people we want to be.

http://www.thedefendersonline.com/2009/05/01/what-is-this-%E2%80%9Cthing%E2%80%9D-with-gay-men-and-divas/

[soulster]

Soulster--I honestly don't get it either. The only time I ever found Judy Garland interesting was when they released those tapes of her drunken ramblings a few years ago. They were hilarious!

Jobete--isn't assaulting another person already illegal? Why should assaulting a gay person be worse than assaulting anybody else? I am absolutely against any kind of Hate Crime legislation. When you allow the government the power to police thought, you are entering into very ugly territory. You can bet these thought laws will never be applied to a gay person assaulting a straight person. That breeds animosity. Treat everybody the same.

You can think whatever you want, just don't act on it.

[soulster]

"It makes me, a straight guy, not want to admit liking The Wizard of Oz."

Are you seriously this insecure about your sexuality?

Roberta

No, i'm not insecure. But I still have to deal with a very ignorant world.

[soulster]

Soulster, that's a reasonable and honest question, and one of the great mysteries of life. Why do gay men like their divas? I just don't know. I suppose it can go hand in hand with why straight women like romance novels, why do so many straight men like football. I wish I had the answer, but don't have a clue. I DO like and am a big fan of gay male performers, various actors, singers... I do watch and listen to their stuff and follow their careers.

Thing is, none of them are answering the questions. I can tell you about straight guys, as I am one. I can tell you that some straight guys like sports because they were taught that it is a manly thing, and something is wrong with you if you have no interest.

[soulster]

You may find that this interesting article goes some way into explaining why gay men love strong women. Of course you really have to be gay man to fully understand it. Strong women in soaps suffer all the time but no matter how much their man lets them down they fight back just like a gay guy has to in order to survive.

That's all gobblygook to me. But, as a guy who watches one soap opera, I can tell you that that's not the way they are. The guys are just as bubble-headed as anyone.

[carlo]

I can understand if the "Who Is Diana Ross?" thread was closed because it was going off topic, but Carlo's post was reasoned so well and of such high quality that I don't see how it can be described as having deteriorated.

Thank you. I felt that if someone is going to use the Bible to attack gays, then why can't I also make a defense using the Bible? It's only fair.

I also wondered the same thing, 144man. How is this discussion any different than the previous?

[soulster]

How is this discussion any different than the previous?

At least you can't accuse anyone of derailing this thread. Oh wait! What's this one about? :)

[kenneth]

My main curiosity was about why gay guys seem to dominate this forum, and why they are so enamored of straight female entertainers. Why don't they seem to like gay male entertainers? I was just wondering about this stuff, not meaning to derail that thread. Of course, when someone stepped in and started bible-thumping, that's when it turned bad.

But, I once worked with a young gay guy who was obsessed with Judy Garland. I just don't get it. It makes me, a straight guy, not want to admit liking The Wizard of Oz.

Really? I can't think of anyone I've ever known who doesn't like "The Wizard of Oz!" I doubt being a fan of this much loved film stigmatizes anyone in the way you suggest.

[nabob]

My main curiosity was about why gay guys seem to dominate this forum, and why they are so enamored of straight female entertainers.A very interesting fact:

You can say something disparaging about a gay man's mother and possibly get away with it. Use the same remark about his favorite diva and you are dead meat.

[jobeterob]

This was on CNN today.


Opinion: The bearable whiteness of being gay
Editor’s note: Rob Smith is a writer, lecturer and openly gay U.S. Army and Iraq War veteran. His work has appeared in USA Today, The Huffington Post, Metro Weekly and Salon.com among others. He is also a contributing author to "For Colored Boys ...," an anthology featuring the stories of gay men of color to be released on March 13. He can be reached at www.robsmithonline.com and on Twitter @robsmithonline.

By Rob Smith, Special to CNN

I’m a typical gay male with a defining feature that is atypical in my community.

When I log onto my computer in the morning I check my favorite gay blogs. There, I will undoubtedly see images of people who don’t look like me attached to stories written by other people who don’t look like me. Above the page and to the right of the text are ads for various products being sold. They are modeled by people who don’t look like me. Maybe they are the underwear models made to be eye candy for the brand being promoted. Perhaps they’re the people used to represent the typical gay couple that would be welcome on that cruise, or in that hotel.

When I see people who do look like me written about and shown on my favorite gay blogs, they will most likely share my skin color but not my sexual orientation.

They probably have gotten themselves into trouble for saying or doing something homophobic. When I see the story I will roll my eyes at their stupidity and steel myself for the onslaught of hateful comments that will populate the comment section. The comments always sting because they come from members of my community. I will know exactly what is coming but I read anyway. After years of reading such comments I wonder if this is what all the people in my community who don’t look like me are really thinking about those who do.

When I’m on the train, I read my favorite gay magazine. I can’t remember having ever seen someone who looks like me on the cover. When I read it I see more ads - for underwear, cologne, cruises, hotels, and clothes - with people who don’t look like me. None of the writers look like me, nor are there any stories about anyone who looks like me. When I finally see an advertisement with someone who shares my skin color, the advertisement is for HIV medication.

While I’m waiting for my friend in the gayborhood hotspot I notice that none of the bartenders, DJs, or waiters look like me, nor do most of the clientele. Out of boredom, I fiddle around with the Grindr mobile dating app on my iPhone. My screen is filled with different faces, bodies, and torsos of men in the area. One particularly handsome man attracts my attention, until I read the “NO ASIANS” typed in angry capped letters on his profile. I wonder how I would feel if I were Asian.

After having a few drinks with my friend, I walk home through the garment district in midtown Manhattan. I see a gay male couple walking hand in hand down the street. They also do not look like me. In fact, they look like they could be in one of the gay cruise ads I see in my favorite magazine. Their relaxed and happy faces turn frightened when they see me, and they immediately cease holding hands and separate. On this late night in an unfamiliar area of the city, I am not seen as a member of the LGBT community. I am black. I am male. I am a threat.

The wary looks and quickened paces of nervous white women on the streets of New York are those I’ve become used to over the years, but the reaction from this gay male couple is different. My first instinct is to smile at them, but I don’t. I dart into the subway station and think about it during every second of the ride back uptown. I feel hurt, sad, lonely, and invisible. I feel bad for this couple who, for whatever reason, think that they could be in danger around me just for being themselves. I wonder what books they read, what shows they watch, what magazines they read. I wonder what gay “looks” like to them.

When I get home and turn on the television, I flip through all of the channels that seem to have more gay characters and personalities on them than ever before. I see Nate Berkus, Brad Goreski, Rachel Maddow, the characters on reruns of "Queer as Folk," Rosie O'Donnell, Tabatha Coffey, the gay couple on "Modern Family," and perhaps TV’s most recognizable gay teen, Kurt Hummel of "Glee."

After a bit more television watching, I fall asleep for another day knowing that our community has so many colors, and still wondering why I can only seem to find one.

The opinions expressed in this commentary are solely those of Rob Smith.

[soulster]

A very interesting fact:

You can say something disparaging about a gay man's mother and possibly get away with it. Use the same remark about his favorite diva and you are dead meat.

But why? I can't imagine anyone allowing disparaging remarks about one's mother.

[nabob]

But why? I can't imagine anyone allowing disparaging remarks about one's mother.The intent was not to have anything bad said about someone's mother or allowing such remarks, but how such remarks could be perceived. A gay man fiercely loves his diva and will place her above all others and all else, including his mother [at times]. Saying something bad about one's diva can easily be taken as a personal insult. It's an easy way to get under some's skin.

[BobC]

Ahhh CNN with their incessant condescension towards blacks and gays. The only people they publish are self-pitying cry babies like Rob Smith. I am always astonished by people whose entire identity revolves around their sexual orientation or race. My volleyball team mates are nearly all black or Hispanic, mostly gay and we GASP play ball at mainly straight bars and rec centers. And guess what? We never have any problems--in fact my team won the AA division twice. We all get along great and GASP AGAIN hang out in straight bars sometimes! Or sometimes we hang out at a mostly gay bar off 35 which is the most racially mixed bar I have ever seen and there has never been a racial incident that I have ever seen. The bar has been robbed several times by black thugs, which may explain why people of all races, who can't defend themselves, are leery of black males they don't know. I don't blame them. And I also don't blame my black friends Trevor and Brandon for being leery of going alone into redneck bars in rural areas--in fact Brandon and I were just talking about that the other day. I respect his feelings, and really don't blame him, but when I ask if any white people have ever attacked or robbed by whites, and he said no. He told me he has been bullied by other black guys because he is over-weight and is leery of thug-looking black guys when he is downtown. It is so nice to be able to have open honest conversations about these things and I always find we have common ground.

As a minority myself, I find Rob's self pity disgusting and lacking in dignity. Maybe he ought to ask himself why people of all races are nervous when they are around black males they don't know and take a good luck at the thug culture that has sprung up in the last 20 years that glorifies violence, shootings, "knock Out Kings," flash mobs that loot stores and attack the employees, steal people's cell phones, and other things. I grew up idolizing black artists and athletes and am disgusted by what's going on today.

[soulster]

The intent was not to have anything bad said about someone's mother or allowing such remarks, but how such remarks could be perceived. A gay man fiercely loves his diva and will place her above all others and all else, including his mother [at times]. Saying something bad about one's diva can easily be taken as a personal insult. It's an easy way to get under some's skin.

You guys are saying this, bit I want to know WHY they hold these flamboyant, somewhat asexual female superstars in such high regard. Again, why do they not feel the same way about the gay male stars, or the lesbian female stars? Do they see themselves as females? Straight females have no problem with idolizing other females. What is in the mind of gay men that makes this so? I know there are gay guys on this forum, so what's the deal?

On another note, some Black dude once tried to tell me that if a guy gets to be a certain age, has access to women, and doesn't get any of them pregnant, he must be gay. That right there is straight up ignorance no matter if you are straight, gay, Black, White, or martian. I once thought that backward mentality went out with the WWII generation, but young people still think that way. The Stupid Bow...I mean the Super Bowl kicks off in just a few minutes. Today I was telling an old guy that I don't have ANY interest in sports. Right away, he started making jokes about me "going down the mud highway" or some other stupid thing.