WHO IS DIANA ROSS? A poll of the next genration.....

[marybrewster]

Maybe I was bored today. Maybe I've just got too much time on my hands.

The other day in one of the threads here at SDF, a comment was made that "no one in the next generation" knows who Diana Ross is.

Interesting thought. So, being blessed with relatives in "the next generation" and friends with children "in the next generation" and co-workers "in the next generation", I thought I'd put that statement to test.

First, let me say, I polled 12 individuals [[to match the 12 #1's Diana had with the Supremes). They ranged from ages 15 to 24. My subjects were both male and female. My subjects identify as Caucasian, Asian and Hispanic.

I asked three simple questions. 1) Have you ever heard of Diana Ross? If the answer was "no", that was the end of the poll. If the answer was "yes", the next question was: 2) Who is she? If the subject "didn't know" or had no answer, that was the end of the poll. If the subject knew, the last question was: Can you name a Diana Ross song?

Here are the results:

4 individuals didn't know who Diana Ross was [[although one said her name sounded familiar).

7 individuals identified Diana as either a black woman, or a black singer, or better yet, an actress. Of those 7, 4 individuals identified Diana as a member of The Supremes. Furthermore, of those 7, 1 individual indentified her as "like Cher; every gay man's dream". LOL.

Of the above 7 mentioned, 1 could name a Diana Ross song: "Baby, Where Did Our Love Go?" [[another subject said they couldn't name a Diana Ross song, but would know one if they heard one). When I asked the 1 how they knew a Diana Ross song, the answer was "I know good music"! :)

So, while the "next generation" could use a little work, the majority know a legendary lady: Miss Diana Ross.

[carlo]

Thanks MaryBrewster for sharing the results of your poll. You got me smiling! :)

May I add...I am 22 years old and from "the next generation". Most of my friends are also in my age group and whenever I've mentioned or discussed Diana Ross, most of them have heard of her or know who she is. Once in a while someone will say they don't know who she is, but it's very rare...and once I start singing one of her songs, they automatically realize.

[jobeterob]

I think that Mary's poll reflects reality.............Diana is an icon of an age; but she is not Taylor Swift and Adele; she was that in the 60's and 70's and maybe early 80's............but her songs are known as is she generally.

This is why I say this unpopular line that while Diana Ross is known, the other Supremes no longer are; that ended in the 60's and 70's. Cindy Birdsong is the one most identified because you can't have a name like that and not be a singer.

And before anyone is offended..............we are not talking hardcore fans; I know we know them all down to Barbara Martin and the quasi Supremes.........Shantel and Karen et al.

[carlo]

LOL. Glad you took the time to clarify that.:rolleyes:

[soulster]

I did a similar informal poll for Stevie Wonder about ten years ago, except my samples were in their thirties. The people were Latino and White. Not a single person could name one song he did.

I also did the same for The Beatles. None but one could name any of them, any Beatles song, or anything any of them sang as solo artists. That one person at least knew about Paul McCartney.

Diana Ross? I'm surprised anyone knew who she was. A gay man's dream? How in the world did Diana Ross become a favorite of gays? I'm not gay, so I don't know.

[captainjames]

Thanks, I don't think I have met anyone yet that did not know who Diana Ross was or had heard of her.

[luke]

Ironically,I asked 13 people at work who were together in one room last Saturday if they knew who Diana Ross was and no one did but some seemed to know of the Supremes-will try to double check that. Usually I ask about other Motown stars too but didnt have time. Everyone but one was under thirty. I was surprised to say the least. But lets face it times have changed.

[jobeterob]

That could only happen for Luke.........well, and for one more poster, no need to mention names. LOL!

I enjoyed that post; thanks Luke.

[marv2]

I asked my 18 yr. old nephew Kenny "Bud" who was that woman on the computer [[it was the picture of Diana Ross here from her latest Greatest Hits Collection). My back was turned to the computer and he said "Diana Ross". I ask him what does she do and he said "I dunno"! When I turned around to look at the picture again, I had to laugh because her name was under the picture and he had read it in order to give me his answer! LOL!!! oh LOL!!!!!

[marv2]

Ironically,I asked 13 people at work who were together in one room last Saturday if they knew who Diana Ross was and no one did but some seemed to know of the Supremes-will try to double check that. Usually I ask about other Motown stars too but didnt have time. Everyone but one was under thirty. I was surprised to say the least. But lets face it times have changed.

Young kids know the Supremes because of "Dreamgirls". One actually asked me, which one of the Supremes replaced Effie! hehehehehehe! True story.

It would be too embarassing to ask about who Diana Ross is.

[floyjoy678]

I remember a few years back my grandmom and my aunt were discussing the music they used to listen to in the 60s and my grandmom said to my aunt remember you used to listen to the Supremes? And my aunt said oh yea...Diana Ross, Cindy Birdsong and uh Mary Wells.

[ejluther]

Of course, it goes both ways; I'm absolutely certain I couldn't identify a lot of the music personalities who matter to kids today. And, of course, why should I be able to? That's not my thing...

[marv2]

Maybe they could do an Unsung episode on Diana Ross?

[BobC]

hmmm--since I do videogames for a living, I work with people from their early twenties up through their sixties, and most of the kids know the Beatles, Led Zeppelin, Pink Floyd and other classic rock bands like that. They think music was better then. None of them know Motown or any black music from the 60's/70's, but most are into contemporary rap/hip hop. I am always put off when I hear a song that samples, say, a Stevie Wonder song, and they have no idea someone else wrote it.

[Roberta75]

I remember a few years back my grandmom and my aunt were discussing the music they used to listen to in the 60s and my grandmom said to my aunt remember you used to listen to the Supremes? And my aunt said oh yea...Diana Ross, Cindy Birdsong and uh Mary Wells.

That's so sad franjoy.

[soulster]

hmmm--since I do videogames for a living, I work with people from their early twenties up through their sixties, and most of the kids know the Beatles, Led Zeppelin, Pink Floyd and other classic rock bands like that. They think music was better then. None of them know Motown or any black music from the 60's/70's, but most are into contemporary rap/hip hop. I am always put off when I hear a song that samples, say, a Stevie Wonder song, and they have no idea someone else wrote it.

Except for my little informal poll that I described above, this been my experience as well!

[uptight]

I remember an older cousin telling me she and a friend recently attended a Mary Wells concert. I knew she meant Mary Wilson but didn't have the heart to correct her.

At least Stevie Wonder has 5 songs on a new RockBand videogame called “Stevie Wonder Pack 01.” Young videogame players will have a tiny bit more exposure to Stevie's 70s hits.

Also, I bump into people of all ages who still don't know that the name "Motown" is a contraction of "Motor Town" or that it originated from Detroit. Sadly, lots of folks in Detroit don't even know this basic information.

[captainjames]

I am usually correcting the young generation on who was in the Supremes; They always seem to know Diana and Cindy. Sometimes Flo will get a nod or two but, Mary always get confused with Mary Wells or Nancy Wilson. Also, as far as the Supremes the kids think it ended when Diana left. With so many songs being sampled of Diana's most will know Upside Down, Love Hangover or Anit No Mountain High Enough. Try asking someone under 30 during the holidays while in a department store and Silver Bells or the Children's Christmas song plays over the intercom who is singing and they will immediately tell you Diana Ross.



I remember an older cousin telling me she and a friend recently attended a Mary Wells concert. I knew she meant Mary Wilson but didn't have the heart to correct her.

At least Stevie Wonder has 5 songs on a new RockBand videogame called “Stevie Wonder Pack 01.” Young videogame players will have a tiny bit more exposure to Stevie's 70s hits.

Also, I bump into people of all ages who still don't know that the name "Motown" is a contraction of "Motor Town" or that it originated from Detroit. Sadly, lots of folks in Detroit don't even know this basic information.

[dzMusica]

Weren't the Supremes black?

[captainjames]

Sometimes they did wear black but usually Flo's hair was blonde and Mary went blonde in the late sixties.


Weren't the Supremes black?

[BobC]

Rockband and those types of games are definitely bringing these songs to a new audience--but people get really sick of the songs too. A great example of a song that was considered cutting edge and cool, but is now considered lame and cheesy because of Rockband is What You Do To Me by Queens of the Stone Age.

[luke]

LOLOL Marv u bad boy!!But you may be onto something. Love your nephew!

[marv2]

LOLOL Marv u bad boy!!But you may be onto something. Love your nephew!

Thanks. He's something else. He is a Hip-Hop artist with his own little fan base on Youtube and Facebook. Didn't have a CLUE as to who Diane was LOL!!!

[arrr&bee]

Well,well,well is this a hooch hullucination...a supremes post that actually makes sense...good question and my take is that because of their legend the supremes will be remembered as will diana,but some years ago i asked some college students about the drifters and not one of em knew who they were so i think that it's important that we keep sites like[soulful detroit]going so that future generations will have a reference place to learn the history of this wonderful music we discuss today...great post!!!

[144man]

I wonder if the situation is different in the UK than the USA. My teenage great-nieces have a good knowledge of oldies going as far back as Elvis Presley. They're more likely to know the songs, however, than the singers.

[soulster]

Weren't the Supremes black?


They were??? Really! OMG!!! Haven't you ever heard of dying your hair?

[Sugarchilehoneybaby]

I remember a few years back my grandmom and my aunt were discussing the music they used to listen to in the 60s and my grandmom said to my aunt remember you used to listen to the Supremes? And my aunt said oh yea...Diana Ross, Cindy Birdsong and uh Mary Wells.

Okay, that is too funny! Because I went to high school with a girl who also thought that Mary Wells was a Supreme! I remember she did not care for Diana Ross, and told me one day, "She only had like one hit anyway...that song 'Love Hunger'. :) That other lady in the Supremes had that song 'My Guy' before she was in The Supremes, and it was #1 for like two years!" And I was like...."Ummm, hon, that lady was Mary Wells. The Supreme was named Mary WILSON."

She didn't believe me and went off on how Mary Wells or Wilson or whatever, had a whole bunch of hits and then joined the Supremes, only to be pushed to the background because Diana Ross was Berry Gordy's lover!

Come to think of it, though, Mary Wells and Mary Wilson DO sound similar. Not just their names, but vocally. Give a listen to the end part of "My Guy", when Mary gets all husky and sexy, and then listen to Mary Wilson's parts on "Floy Joy" [[both Smokey songs for comparison) and tell me they don't sound very, very similar. I'll bet lots of non-Motown-obsessed people [[casual listeners) would think that was the same singer!

[uptight]

Well,well,well is this a hooch hullucination...a supremes post that actually makes sense...good question and my take is that because of their legend the supremes will be remembered as will diana,but some years ago i asked some college students about the drifters and not one of em knew who they were so i think that it's important that we keep sites like[soulful detroit]going so that future generations will have a reference place to learn the history of this wonderful music we discuss today...great post!!!

arrr&bee, I sure hope this Soulful Detroit website is around for many years to come. It is an excellent means of discussion and education for fans and non-fans of the music. I hope younger people are tuning in here.

[ejluther]

How in the world did Diana Ross become a favorite of gays? I'm not gay, so I don't know.
There's a long history of gay men responding to strong and theatrical women who love to perform with a liberal dose of campy flair - Diana certainly fits in there along with Judy Garland, Barbra Streisand, Madonna, Cher, etc. This is a very simplistic answer but it's still one that fits for a lot of gay men. Of course, there are gay men who say they're "not gay" that way because they don't like the traditional "gay icons" but enough have/do to often make it an appropriate generalization. Of course, I also like to point out that gay men might respond to women like this simply because they're talented, interesting, and make great music...

[dzMusica]

They were??? Really! OMG!!! Haven't you ever heard of dying your hair?

I was saying that because how r u going to do a poll about African Americans and not ask African Americans. Its unbalanced. Let's not forget All the main Motown artists were black.

[soulster]

There's a long history of gay men responding to strong and theatrical women who love to perform with a liberal dose of campy flair - Diana certainly fits in there along with Judy Garland, Barbra Streisand, Madonna, Cher, etc. This is a very simplistic answer but it's still one that fits for a lot of gay men. Of course, there are gay men who say they're "not gay" that way because they don't like the traditional "gay icons" but enough have/do to often make it an appropriate generalization. Of course, I also like to point out that gay men might respond to women like this simply because they're talented, interesting, and make great music...

So, a straight man doesn't dare admit he likes any of these women, lest people snicker and think he's gay.

[soulster]

I was saying that because how r u going to do a poll about African Americans and not ask African Americans. Its unbalanced. Let's not forget All the main Motown artists were black.

Who said I wasn't asking African-Americans? The question is open to anyone.

[ejluther]

So, a straight man doesn't dare admit he likes any of these women, lest people snicker and think he's gay.
Homophobia like undoubtedly does occur, sure - I find people tend to be narrowminded about cliches like that. But, obviously, that doesn't mean you have to be gay to like them...but it does seem to help ;)

[dzMusica]

Who said I wasn't asking African-Americans? The question is open to anyone.

You said the people who answered the poll were White and Latino. Why report an unbalanced poll. The other poller had similar results. It puts unecessary misconceptions in peoples heads because there is no balance. If you don't include African Americans as well then whats the point. There's no conversation here.

[soulster]

Homophobia like undoubtedly does occur, sure - I find people tend to be narrowminded about cliches like that. But, obviously, that doesn't mean you have to be gay to like them...but it does seem to help ;)

I'll admit to having a few Barbra Steisand and Diana Ross albums, but it's something I don't say too loud. It's not so bad to admit having some Barry Manilow, but still...:)

[soulster]

You said the people who answered the poll were White and Latino. Why report an unbalanced poll.

Maybe it's because, for me, I live in an area with very few Black people. I live in a predominately White and Latino area.

[dzMusica]

Maybe it's because, for me, I live in an area with very few Black people. I live in a predominately White and Latino area.

I understand that but its still unbalanced. Being the case, you should present your information like this [[you and the other poller) Young white and latino people don't know, 4 example, who the motown artists are. Something like that. Just be more exact its poll. Some people might take it to heart.

[soulster]

I understand that but its still unbalanced. Being the case, you should present your information like this [[you and the other poller) Young white and latino people don't know, 4 example, who the motown artists are. Something like that. Just be more exact its poll. Some people might take it to heart.

First, did I not say that my poll was informal? And second, why assume White or Latino people do not listen to Motown or Diana Ross songs? Sure, fewer of them do, but probably no more than Black people. I know plenty of Black people who can't stand Diana Ross. Personally, I have no use for her image, status, or whatever, but I do like some of her music. It ends there.

This is NOT the Diana Ross forum, and I do not come here to just talk about her, as I am not one of her fans.

[BobC]

I hate the term "homophobia." It is used to stigmatize straight people who are somewhat uncomfortable around gay people, and thus makes them afraid to ask questions. How do you get comfortable with a group of people you're not familiar with if you feel you can't ask questions? Gay people need to drop that term because I hate to tell you this, if someone doesn't hate you for being gay they'll find something else to hate. The key is being comfortable in your own skin and not giving a damn what other people think.

Also--what is this nonsense that whites and Hispanics aren't just as qualified as anybody else in discussing Motown? I'm white and know more about Motown than probably 90% of blacks--not bragging, just stating a fact. The more people claim they are beyond race, the more people are obsessed with it. I never gave a crap about these useless distinctions. Yes, groups tend to have identifiable traits on average, but at the end of the day we are all individuals.

[simplysupreme]

Homophobia like undoubtedly does occur, sure - I find people tend to be narrowminded about cliches like that. But, obviously, that doesn't mean you have to be gay to like them...but it does seem to help ;)

Here's an interesting take on it:
http://greginhollywood.com/why-are-gay-men-drawn-to-divas-like-cher-liza-bette-barbra-diana-and-others-33891

[soulster]

Thanks, Bob!

[candykamaine]

Thanks MaryBrewster for sharing the results of your poll. You got me smiling! :)

May I add...I am 22 years old and from "the next generation". Most of my friends are also in my age group and whenever I've mentioned or discussed Diana Ross, most of them have heard of her or know who she is. Once in a while someone will say they don't know who she is, but it's very rare...and once I start singing one of her songs, they automatically realize.

I'm 22 and also heard of diana ross, heck I'm a huge fan of Diana ross.

[BobC]

I've got your back, Soulster.

I have noticed that most fan sites featuring...uhhh...aging divas are run by gay males. It is almost always the case. I don't know why that is. I also have noticed over the years that heterosexual women will idolize and lust over butt-ugly male singers like Rod Stewart or Steven Tyler--but heterosexual males tend to go for females singer who are very pretty [[Supremes, Heart, Pat Banatar, Beyonce). Plain female singers like Patti Smith or Joan Armatrading have tons of talent but never get the popularity their prettier peers get. I am sure there is a biological component in all this. I have also noted that black males, especially those over the age of 40 or 50, are more accepting of plain female singers like Patti Labelle or Dionne Warwick, than are straight white males--it's more about the singing ability than the hotness factor. Maybe gay men are more accepting of average looking female artists, or older female artists, because there is no sexual aspect to it. It is about the talent and glamor and legendary status.

[ejluther]

It is used to stigmatize straight people who are somewhat uncomfortable around gay people, and thus makes them afraid to ask questions. How do you get comfortable with a group of people you're not familiar with if you feel you can't ask questions? Gay people need to drop that term because I hate to tell you this, if someone doesn't hate you for being gay they'll find something else to hate.
I just want to point out that the scenario described had nothing to do with asking questions, it was about mocking someone because they're thought to be gay:

So, a straight man doesn't dare admit he likes any of these women, lest people snicker and think he's gay.
I didn't use the word "homophobia" to stigmatize anyone - I used it because it was appropriate. As for straight people, I have no problem with them. In fact, some of my best friends are straight! ;)

[carlo]

I hate the term "homophobia." It is used to stigmatize straight people who are somewhat uncomfortable around gay people, and thus makes them afraid to ask questions. How do you get comfortable with a group of people you're not familiar with if you feel you can't ask questions? Gay people need to drop that term because I hate to tell you this, if someone doesn't hate you for being gay they'll find something else to hate. The key is being comfortable in your own skin and not giving a damn what other people think.


I've never heard the term "homophobic" used to describe straight people who are "somewhat uncomfortable" around gay people. If someone has used the term to describe someone who is "somewhat uncomfortable"...then they obviously don't understand the real meaning of the word. They clearly don't know what they're talking about. There is a huge difference in my opinion between those who are "somewhat uncomfortable" and those who are "hateful", "bigoted" and/or "ignorant". People who are hateful, bigoted and ignorant are homophobic. There's no problem with being somewhat uncomfortable. Even some gay people themselves are "somewhat uncomfortable" when they're trying to come to terms with who they are. I'm sure everyone would love the term "homophobia" to disappear, but unfortunately, even if the term disappears, the hate and prejudice that the term "homophobia" is used to describe, will still continue. It's very real. It's just as serious as racism. There was a story a while ago where a guy was walking out of a McDonald's and he was attacked and beaten, just because he "looked gay". Homophobia is not about being uncomfortable. It's about ugliness and ignorance. It needs to stop. Hopefully one day the term "homophobia" will no longer exist, just like I hope one day, the term "racism" will no longer exist.

[dzMusica]

Being Gay is a Sin

[jobeterob]

That is a pretty uneducated comment, dzMusica. There is some similarity to saying "being black is a sin" and perhaps some people once held that view. What if people someday say that "being white is a sin"? Once upon a time, not that long ago, "being Jewish was a sin in Germany".

You need to consider that comment a little bit and do some research.

Many people feel they were born that way, many on this board, and your comment is not going to be received nicely.

You once asked me what gets a person banned on here; these kinds of comments go a long way toward that.

Do some research and consider that gay people are just people; and there are all variations that are subsets of "people"; good ones are the ones we are really looking to hang out with.

[dzMusica]

That is a pretty uneducated comment, dzMusica. There is some similarity to saying "being black is a sin" and perhaps some people once held that view. What if people someday say that "being white is a sin"? Once upon a time, not that long ago, "being Jewish was a sin in Germany".

You need to consider that comment a little bit and do some research.

Many people feel they were born that way, many on this board, and your comment is not going to be received nicely.

You once asked me what gets a person banned on here; these kinds of comments go a long way toward that.

Do some research and consider that gay people are just people; and there are all variations that are subsets of "people"; good ones are the ones we are really looking to hang out with.

Stop asking me to do research and why don't you go read the Bible.

Blacks, Whites, Asians:they are races of people. Being gay is a lifestyle it it NOT A RACE.

I wonder how all the Motown people would feel by you saying the being Black was a sin.

[candykamaine]

I hate the term "homophobia." It is used to stigmatize straight people who are somewhat uncomfortable around gay people, and thus makes them afraid to ask questions. How do you get comfortable with a group of people you're not familiar with if you feel you can't ask questions? Gay people need to drop that term because I hate to tell you this, if someone doesn't hate you for being gay they'll find something else to hate. The key is being comfortable in your own skin and not giving a damn what other people think.

Also--what is this nonsense that whites and Hispanics aren't just as qualified as anybody else in discussing Motown? I'm white and know more about Motown than probably 90% of blacks--not bragging, just stating a fact. The more people claim they are beyond race, the more people are obsessed with it. I never gave a crap about these useless distinctions. Yes, groups tend to have identifiable traits on average, but at the end of the day we are all individuals.

I want to come up with a nicer way to reply to the bold but I'll just be quiet.
...
=======================
Any, this topic is going downhill in a handbasket...

[BobC]

Candy--no offense intended. But frankly, I work with black people who don't know or care about Motown. Say what you want--I'm a big boy. I can take it.

dz--homosexuality is not a race. You are right. But about 2 to 5% of the population is homosexual, so what is your point? That gay people are sub-human? Let me ask you one Biblical question: Give me one Biblical quotation from Jesus which said homosexuality is a sin or bad. There are exactly two comments in the entire Bible, to my knowledge, that even mention guys being with guys, and neither is from Jesus. Don't get me wrong--heterosexuality is the norm, but that doesn't mean gay people don't contribute to civilization in a big way. And where would half the artists, I'm assuming you love on this site, would still be performing today if not for gay fans?

[candykamaine]

Candy--no offense intended. But frankly, I work with black people who don't know or care about Motown. Say what you want--I'm a big boy. I can take it.
?

The ones you prob work with just are'nt really into Motown that much. They are prob more intrested in other labels likes stax and other that were'nt considered too pop, because back in the 60s there were some folks [[usually hardcore soul snobs) who did'nt care for motown due to the fact that it was to pop.

[soulster]

I've got your back, Soulster.

I have noticed that most fan sites featuring...uhhh...aging divas are run by gay males. It is almost always the case.

Except that this is NOT a diva fan site, and it is NOT run by a gay male. I have also observed what you have observed, but straight males will also go for the famous female singers that look great. And i'm not saying that, for instance, Diana Ross isn't unattractive, but there's nothing sexual about her, or any of the others constantly discussed here. Straight guys look for sexual attractiveness. Straight women go goo-goo for butt-ugly dudes like Mick Jagger because they have...money!


I just want to point out that the scenario described had nothing to do with asking questions, it was about mocking someone because they're thought to be gay:

I didn't use the word "homophobia" to stigmatize anyone - I used it because it was appropriate. As for straight people, I have no problem with them. In fact, some of my best friends are straight! ;)

You were trying to explain it to me because I am admittedly ignorant about gays. I don't personally know many gays, but I know many lesbians.


I've never heard the term "homophobic" used to describe straight people who are "somewhat uncomfortable" around gay people. If someone has used the term to describe someone who is "somewhat uncomfortable"...then they obviously don't understand the real meaning of the word. They clearly don't know what they're talking about. There is a huge difference in my opinion between those who are "somewhat uncomfortable" and those who are "hateful", "bigoted" and/or "ignorant". People who are hateful, bigoted and ignorant are homophobic. There's no problem with being somewhat uncomfortable. Even some gay people themselves are "somewhat uncomfortable" when they're trying to come to terms with who they are. I'm sure everyone would love the term "homophobia" to disappear, but unfortunately, even if the term disappears, the hate and prejudice that the term "homophobia" is used to describe, will still continue. It's very real. It's just as serious as racism. There was a story a while ago where a guy was walking out of a McDonald's and he was attacked and beaten, just because he "looked gay". Homophobia is not about being uncomfortable. It's about ugliness and ignorance. It needs to stop. Hopefully one day the term "homophobia" will no longer exist, just like I hope one day, the term "racism" will no longer exist.

All I know is that gays/lesbians do not want to be "tolerated". They want to be treated as equal human beings. At the end of our time, it turns out what they do is indeed wrong, it is not for we to judge. That belongs to God to decide. Our job on earth is to treat each other well.


Being Gay is a Sin

Oh shit! Someone is bringing in this bible crap. Time to leave this thread. dzMusica, go preach somewhere else. I don't come here to learn about what you think your bible says. Gays are born that way. It is not a choice. Do you choose to be straight? I am straight as an arrow, but I have to defend gays as human beings.

[dzMusica]

Candy--no offense intended. But frankly, I work with black people who don't know or care about Motown. Say what you want--I'm a big boy. I can take it.

dz--homosexuality is not a race. You are right. But about 2 to 5% of the population is homosexual, so what is your point? That gay people are sub-human? Let me ask you one Biblical question: Give me one Biblical quotation from Jesus which said homosexuality is a sin or bad. There are exactly two comments in the entire Bible, to my knowledge, that even mention guys being with guys, and neither is from Jesus. Don't get me wrong--heterosexuality is the norm, but that doesn't mean gay people don't contribute to civilization in a big way. And where would half the artists, I'm assuming you love on this site, would still be performing today if not for gay fans?

"...neither cast ye your pearls before swine, lest they trample them under their feet, and turn again and rend you."

[Sugarchilehoneybaby]

"...neither cast ye your pearls before swine, lest they trample them under their feet, and turn again and rend you."

So now you're comparing LGBT people to swine?

***

How did this thread devolve so quickly into junk?

[marybrewster]

Who the hell wants pearls anyway? Rhinestones are a queens best friend.

[marybrewster]

"...neither cast ye your pearls before swine, lest they trample them under their feet, and turn again and rend you."

Matthew 7:1 : “Judge not, that you be not judged."

John 13:35 : "By this all people will know that you are my disciples, if you have love for one another.”

[Sugarchilehoneybaby]

Who the hell wants pearls anyway? Rhinestones are a queens best friend.

Sade wants pearls.

[Sugarchilehoneybaby]

Matthew 7:1 : “Judge not, that you be not judged."

John 13:35 : "By this all people will know that you are my disciples, if you have love for one another.”

Good job :)

[marybrewster]

Sade wants pearls.

From Somalia?

[marybrewster]

Good job :)

Honey, I have fried bigger fish for Friday Lenten dinner.

[Glenpwood]

I can tolerate when people get online and bash an artist because they are looking for attention but calling out a whole group of people as sinners is beyond disrespectful and ignorant. When there are plenty of kids out there killing themselves because people are making them feel that who they are is wrong or sinful out of bigoted sheer stupidity I have no tolerance for it. Some folks need to remember there were plenty of Gay people working to make these Motown acts they love a success and some still working daily to preserve their legacy.

[Sugarchilehoneybaby]

Honey, I have fried bigger fish for Friday Lenten dinner.

Yes from Somalia...by the roadside...

LOL You are too many things! Muahh!

[bradsupremes]

dzMusica, I'd be really careful in what you say. As a devout Christian, I don't appreciate sayings like "being gay is a sin" representing my religion and making it into something it isn't. My religion is based on love, not hate. My religion teaches that God loves all of His children regardless of their gender, race, sexual preference, etc. and that we as humans are to accept and love one another just as He loves us. Please don't make my religion look ugly and turn it into something it isn't.

[carlo]

The Bible does have one or two scriptures that address homosexuals, however, these one or two passages are used out of context by ignorant fools...just so they can think they're correct in the eyes of God. These types of Christians are "fundamentalists" and believe everything the Bible says, word for word. I have no issue with Christians who are fundamentalists. HOWEVER, if you're going to believe what the Bible says about homosexuality...THEN by the same token, you SHOULD also be following the Bible's rules about rape.

In the Old Testament, there is a scripture that says women who are raped are required to marry their rapist. I guess if the Bible says that, we as Christians should endorse it? But how many of us agree with that? No one does. In the Old Testament, there is a scripture that says women who are having their period should not be permitted in the temple or near the altar of the Lord. How many Christians follow that rule? I can go on and on.

But wait...in the New Testament, there are scriptures written by Paul the apostle, where he seems to speak out against homosexuality. Well, doesn't the apostle Paul also write about slavery? He talks about how slaves should behave and treat their masters. I guess Paul is endorsing slavery? How many Christians agree with that? Little to none.

You see...the problem with so-called fundamentalists is that they "PICK AND CHOOSE" what they want to believe. If you believe the entire Bible is true, you better be following the entire thing to a T. But apparently they aren't...because they believe some scriptures were written in the context of a certain time and culture...just like I believe the scriptures concerning homosexuality were written in the context of a certain time and culture...making it no more of a sin than a woman who is a leader in her church [[which, by the way, the Bible also opposes).

Did Jesus say anything against homosexuality? No, he did not. But he does address people who divorce and re-marry a second time. It's in one of the four gospels. He says that such people are "adulterers". How many Christians follow that rule? A lot of them don't. I've met dozens and dozens of self-proclaimed devout Christians who have divorced and re-married...claiming that their first marriage was not valid in the eyes of God, because it was not His will. Lame excuse! So according to you, your second marriage is not a sin? But homosexuality is a sin...just because you say so?

Unfortunately, most Christians miss the main point.

[ejluther]

Being gay is a lifestyle it it NOT A RACE.
So how do straight people choose to be straight? All the talk you hear from some people about how being gay is a lifestyle and a choice and a sin must mean that straight people are consciously choosing every day to be straight and not gay - how do they do it? Obviously I'm being sarcastic to make a point - sexual orientation is not a choice; who you are attracted to is fundamental. The only choice you really have is how bad you're going to let other people make you feel about yourself. As Eleanor Roosevelt said, "No one can make you feel inferior without your consent."

PS: Thanks for the thoughtful and well-written post, carlo...

[ralpht]

This thread seemed to be deteriorating, so I think it best we close it.