View Full Version : Are these for real?
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aarondillon2011@gmail.com
12-05-2011, 02:46 AM
I found these titles on Amazon.com. What's up with these? Surely they can't be real since the release date falls on a Sunday.
http://www.amazon.com/Baby-Dont-Want-Take-Chan/dp/B006GP3SXY/ref=sr_1_1?s=music&ie=UTF8&qid=1323066829&sr=1-1
http://www.amazon.com/Soulful-Moods-Marvin-Gaye/dp/B006GP3RKI/ref=sr_1_1?s=music&ie=UTF8&qid=1323067038&sr=1-1
http://www.amazon.com/Hi-Were-Miracles/dp/B006GP3TJ2/ref=sr_1_2?s=music&ie=UTF8&qid=1323067067&sr=1-2
http://www.amazon.com/Please-Mr-Postman-Marvelettes/dp/B006GP3SFC/ref=sr_1_1?s=music&ie=UTF8&qid=1323067119&sr=1-1
Jimi LaLumia
12-05-2011, 07:00 AM
they are U.K. based releases, I believe
lakedistrictlad1
12-05-2011, 07:45 AM
Avoid this label like the plague. They are basically bootlegs. They have taken advantage of the 50 year copyright law in Europe. Universal must be seriously p++ssed about this.
The new 70 year copyright ruling was passed in Brussels in September - which means that music labels like this will have to take all this stuff to their nearest landfill any day soon.
Hotspurman
12-05-2011, 03:45 PM
Conclusive proof that you can't please all of the people all of the time - when we [[Hallmark) released The Explosive Freddy Cannon album on CD, the first time it had been available on any format whatsoever for more than forty years, we were commended. Dare to release a Motown album and we are condemned. By the way, although the copyright extension has been raised to 70 years, it won't actually come into law for at least twelve months, since the EU has instructed all member states to implement the law at the same time so as to avoid there being a loop hole whereby we could manufacture in a country that has not yet brought the new term in. Secondly, unlike the US, the law won't be retrospective, so anything that has fallen into the public domain will remain in the public domain - your landfill sites are safe from our CDs.
mysterysinger
12-05-2011, 05:01 PM
Actually some of these "out of copyright" releases are great - those London American Story packages by One Day are excellent value and tastefully packaged too. Now then, where else could you get "The Soulful Moods of Marvin Gaye" for £2.21 and free delivery? Ok so the other 3 I've got already on official release but I guess there'll be more forthcoming and I'll be watching out for them. I would expect there'll be some unusual stuff. The collector in me says, buy them for what they are. Can anyone convince me otherwise?
Hotspurman
12-05-2011, 05:38 PM
There are some really good public domain packages out there, just as there are some really bad ones. Personally, I've collected the complete UK hit singles packages on Trapeze because they are good value for money and offer the opportunity of getting those really obscure singles that just don't turn up anywhere else. The above links also miss the Marvelous Marv Johnson album we are releasing at the same time, and the reason for having 1 January as the release date is because that is the date they officially become public domain. And you're right, there are some other interesting items coming in February....
mysterysinger
12-05-2011, 06:46 PM
Thanks for the tip off re Marv Johnson. Is there a website for this family of releases?
mr_postman
12-05-2011, 07:41 PM
Hotspurman, since you seem to be behind these releases I would like to ask a question. Are these five reissues mentioned here in mono only, or are any of the five albums being reissued in stereo - since some of them was originally issued in stereo too back in the days?
jobeterob
12-05-2011, 08:22 PM
So are we talking 1962 and prior?
Hotspurman
12-06-2011, 05:23 AM
With regards to whether they are stereo or mono, I'll have to look at the original source material - I'll dig them out and let you know; as I'm sure you can appreciate, we have to source the repertoire from the original vinyl versions. The period we are talking about is 1961 and earlier - the 50 year rule applies as of 1 January each year, so an album released in February 1961 becomes public domain in 1 January 2012. Similarly, an album released in November 1962 could become public domain on 1 January 2013. Our website is being redone, but if you go to Amazon and do an advanced search for Pickwick you should be able to find details of our releases there.
lakedistrictlad1
12-06-2011, 07:27 AM
I stand by my claim. Any business taking advantage of a loophole in the law to make money by copying vinyl and re-selling it to the public is basically making bootlegs.
Hotspurman
12-06-2011, 07:56 AM
And none of us buy mail order from Amazon or HMV because they exploit the loophole in the law that allows them to sell from the Channel Islands and not have to charge VAT....
144man
12-06-2011, 09:42 AM
That was a concession rather than a loophole and will be abolished from 1st April, 2012 for imports from the EU.
paul_nixon
12-06-2011, 09:54 AM
And I guess nobody who owns a Kindle will be reading Charles Dickens or the like on their machine
tamla617
12-06-2011, 09:59 AM
a loop hole is a loop hole and i'm jumpin' thru' it and getting 4 cds' for £2.21 each!
and a loop hole is within the law btw
tamla617
12-06-2011, 10:19 AM
Avoid this label like the plague. They are basically bootlegs. They have taken advantage of the 50 year copyright law in Europe. Universal must be seriously p++ssed about this.
The new 70 year copyright ruling was passed in Brussels in September - which means that music labels like this will have to take all this stuff to their nearest landfill any day soon.
universal should have released it then as far i'm concerned.this outfits seen what the market wants and acted on it.universal doesnt move quick enough to keep their assets who's fault is it?and why should you or i be bothered about universal not getting the reddies.it aint motown anymore.
Hotspurman
12-06-2011, 11:18 AM
To be fair to Universal, our minimum manufacturing run is well below what they have to do, so these albums may not make commercial sense for an organisation of their size. And yes, I have used my [[somewhat limited by comparison to some of the people on this website) knowledge of Motown to source those albums that were released within the time frame necessary. But the same would apply to our forthcoming Huey Piano Smith, Jackie Wilson, Gary US Bonds and even Huckelberry Hound albums. I do appreciate that Motown is a slightly different kettle of fish to all these other artists, and I did briefly wonder if Motown was sacrosanct with regards to doing reissues, but I guess I wouldn't be in a job for too long if I was to ignore Motown, Blue Note and Atlantic [[two other labels I greatly admire, by the way) simply because some people would get upset. And by the way, so far all the copies I've checked are mono copies...
mysterysinger
12-06-2011, 03:51 PM
A daft question I suppose, but exactly what is it that is out of copyright? Is it, for example, a particular album or single release, or simply the songs, and if the latter, why could these not be sourced from CD? Is it, for example, that an album issued in 1961 is out of copyright, but a re-issued version in say 1968 may not be? Or is it, for example, when a song was first released? So a song recorded in 1961, but vaulted, and then issued for the first time in 2011 is brand new in copyright? Interesting.
Hotspurman
12-06-2011, 06:28 PM
Any record released in 1961 will fall into the public domain on 1 January 2012. Records released in 1960 became public domain on 1 January 2011, and so on. The copyright last for fifty years [[at present) from the date of original release, so recordings made in 1961 but which didn't get released until say 2007 have a further fifty years copyright protection. We don't use CDs to source material for various reasons, but suffice to say most of the major companies will watermark tracks or otherwise have some form of copyright protection - there could be subtle changes to the tracks that would mean we infringe their copyright if we were to source from CD, so we source from the original vinyl. Hard to believe I know, but even us budget companies have ethics!
mysterysinger
12-06-2011, 07:10 PM
Nothing wrong with budget stuff in my opinion - there have been a number of labels that have given us some good Motown stuff over the years MFP / Regal Starline etc Also, Marble Arch, I believe issued some Tammi Terrel pre-Motown stuff on The Early Show LP.
Does Pickwick/Hallmark have any relationship to the budget records that used to be so common in Woolworths [[and producers ot the Top Of The Pops series etc)?
Weren't some US Motown re-released albums issued through the Pickwick imprint?
Roger Polhill
12-07-2011, 12:55 AM
Hotspurman why don`t you approach Universal/Motown about the rights to TM. 222 "The Great Gospel Stars" and TM.227
"They Shall Be Mine" Rev. Columbus Mann. Both are 1962 recordings and have not been released on cd.As the market for
these would not be huge they may supply the masters for a reduced fee.Just a hopeful suggestion.
Hotspurman
12-07-2011, 05:19 AM
Pickwick/Hallmark were the producers of the Top of the Pops series and you're right, Pickwick in the US and the UK licensed some product from Motown during the late 1970s/early 1980s. With regards to approaching Universal, it might be worth a try, however the last time I did make enquiries [[not of Universal, it must be said) we were still being quoted £500 per track for licensing - you can imagine how many copies we'd have to shift to cover our costs on a twelve track album! As for The Great Gospel Stars and The Rev Columbus Mann, well the Gospel Stars was released in 1961 so that will be public domain on 1 January, so as they say, watch this space....
satipe
12-07-2011, 06:51 PM
Hotspurman,
May I ask the question of what happens to royalty payments to the artists and does public domain mean that they do not need to be compensated? Just wondering...
stephanie
12-07-2011, 07:10 PM
I used to laugh at Pickwick and K-Tel as a child although I got albums from them and now I wish they still existed. Huckelberry Hound! He sang songs? I see him in the list.
copley
12-07-2011, 08:09 PM
Am I correct in saying that these CD's use vinyl as a source and that no re-mastering has been undertaken?
jbpintus
12-07-2011, 10:05 PM
...and what about "The Twistin Kings" ?
If dubs from vinyle are good, like the Vinyle Masterpieces cd label releases are, well, I'll buy THE TWISTIN KINGS and THE GOSPEL STARS if released.
JB
Roger Polhill
12-07-2011, 10:40 PM
Quite a few tracks from "Complete Motown Singles Vol. 1" are mastered from original vinyl 45s and they sound just fine to me.
Hotspurman
12-08-2011, 05:29 AM
Dealing with the questions one by one - there are no royalties due to the artists, that is the public domain part. BUT, there are royalties due to the composers in the form of MCPS payments. There has actually been some considerable debate about this over the years - believe it or not, most of the budget/reissue companies would be willing to pay a royalty to the artist, but how you administer it has not been worked out. I do think that in many cases, just having the albums out there earning composer royalties goes some way towards recompensing those who created the music in the first place. I know from some of the earlier posts there are those who don't agree with what we are doing, but I also know from experience that there are some artists [[and I won't name names) still around who have actually started receiving money from MCPS because of tracks they wrote more than fifty years ago. Our CDs are sourced from the original vinyl; we try to clean them up as much as we can without compressing the sound too much - sometimes we get complaints that we do too much cleaning up and lose some of the crispness, and other times we get complaints that we haven't done enough and you can hear pops and hisses. We do as much as we can to make the transfer acceptable. With regards to February releases, it's everything else that has fallen into the public domain, so we have The Great Gospel Stars, Twistin' Kings [[hopefully - still waiting on the original LP), Cookin' With The Miracles, More Marv Johnson etc etc. The Gospel Stars album is the only one so far that the original album is not top quality, but listening to it I would say that it is acceptable and a vital release given its importance as the first Motown album ever released. And, apart from Huckelberry Hound, we also have Tom & Jerry [[that is Simon & Garfunkel as was, not the cat and mouse!), Steptoe & Son, Spike Milligan, Tony Hancock, The Ventures, Duane Eddy, Ray Charles and a host of others.
Hotspurman
12-08-2011, 09:33 AM
Twistin' Kings - original LP turned up!
lakedistrictlad1
12-08-2011, 09:58 AM
I might burn my Twistin Kings and Gospel Stars lp's to cd and go and sell them on the corner of Tottenham Court Road. We all may as well make some cash out of it!!
Calv1971
12-08-2011, 08:36 PM
It would great if The Gospel Stars, Twistin Kings etc do get a CD release, we would probably have to pay hundreds of dollars for an original Gospel Stars lp, so l am more than happy to pay the £2.21 or thereabouts for a CD using a vinyl source even if it does sound like a chip pan frying in the background!
Roger Polhill
12-08-2011, 09:28 PM
I`m with you calv I`ve had my "Twistin` Around The World" converted to cd. and it`s fine to my ears.
jillfoster
12-08-2011, 09:37 PM
I might burn my Twistin Kings and Gospel Stars lp's to cd and go and sell them on the corner of Tottenham Court Road. We all may as well make some cash out of it!!
you certainly can if you want. That's what public domain is all about. Mark my words, in 20 years, record companies will try to extend copyright 20 more years again... and so on and so on. Eventually, it will be up to 200 years!
psychedelic jacques
12-09-2011, 05:35 AM
so there we go - eleven years and one month to wait before we finally get TCMS 1972 a&b - the Hallmark Edition [[presumably with a greetings card tucked in the front sleeve rather than a 45rpm single). Counting the days...
Hotspurman
12-09-2011, 06:01 AM
you certainly can if you want. That's what public domain is all about. Mark my words, in 20 years, record companies will try to extend copyright 20 more years again... and so on and so on. Eventually, it will be up to 200 years!
We are on the way to perpetual copyright, which is what the big companies have always worked towards. How ironic that the main motivators behind this are the Disney company, who founded virtually their entire business on exploiting public domain novels....
tamla617
12-10-2011, 02:47 PM
I used to laugh at Pickwick and K-Tel as a child although I got albums from them and now I wish they still existed. Huckelberry Hound! He sang songs? I see him in the list.
oh my darlin' clemantine [[or clementine!)i remember that from the huckelberry hound show around 60/61/62
arrr&bee
12-10-2011, 07:31 PM
oh my darlin' clemantine [[or clementine!)i remember that from the huckelberry hound show around 60/61/62
haaaaaaaaaaaaa,is ol huck still alive?? What a dog i heard the he and yogi got into it after huck caught boo-boo pawing aroung his trailer looking for a pic-a nik basket and deputy dawg himself had to step in to stop the fur from flying!!
mysterysinger
01-03-2012, 01:29 PM
Well my first four albums arrived today from Amazon [[Please Mr Postman, Bye Bye Baby, Hi We're The Miracles and The Soulful Moods of Marvin Gaye) with just the Marv Johnson release to come. I got them at the pre-order price but I notice they've more than doubled the cost now. Have only played the Marvin Gaye one but the CDs seem very well presented. I'm happy with them and I'm looking forward to the next releases in this series.
Can anyone explain the numbering sequences to me though [[Hotspurman)? Viz
Soulful Moods of Marvin Gaye 711482
Hi We're The Miracles 711182
Mary Wells Bye Bye Baby 711102
Please Mr Postman 711142
I think the 2 at the end probably signifies a CD release but how does the rest come to be allocated? What happened to the good old days of sequential numbers when collectors knew where they were up to [[TML11001 etc).
Hotspurman
01-04-2012, 05:31 AM
Well, I never thought I'd have to try and explain our numbering system! Our General Manager allocated the numbers, based on a release schedule of some 71 CD's I wanted to release in January, which were either alphabetically listed or numerically listed on our digital database [[I can't remember which). The 2 does signify a CD release, and the rest forms part of the item barcode. With regards to prices on Amazon, they seemed to start at £2.16, went up to £4.16 and have now fallen again to £3.16 - all those that ordered when they first went online shoould have got them at the lower price.
mysterysinger
01-05-2012, 10:01 AM
Ok so what I need now is a list of all 71 releases. I guess it will include some more Cliff stuff, maybe Roy O, Bobby Vee?
Confusion again though - do these releases in 2012 mean that the albums are now copyright again? And whose copyright?
Hotspurman
01-05-2012, 11:11 AM
Here's the full list for January:
21 Today
Cliff Richard
710252
Tom & Jerry Meet Tico & The Triumphs
Tom & Jerry & Tico & The Triumphs
710272
Never On Sunday
Original Soundtrack
710542
Stop The World - I Want To Get Off
Anthony Newley
710782
Rockin' With Ricky
Ricky Nelson
710792
Wimoweh
Karl Denver
710802
Another Smash
The Ventures
710812
The Shadows
The Shadows
710822
Stringbeat
John Barry
710832
Girls Girls Girls
Duane Eddy
710842
A Date With The Everly Brothers
Everly Brothers
710852
Great Songs From Motion Pictures
Hugo Montenegro
710862
The Roaring 20's
Dorothy Provine
710872
At The Copa
Connie Francis
710892
Stranger On The Shore
Acker Bilk
710902
1961
Temperance Seven
710912
This Is Brenda
Brenda Lee
710932
Steptoe & Son
Steptoe & Son
710942
Halfway To Paradise
Billy Fury
710952
I Left My Heart In San Francisco
Tony Bennett
710962
Runaway
Del Shannon
710972
I Like It Swinging
Buddy Greco
710982
Black Coffee
Peggy Lee
710992
Three Beautiful Words Of Love
Dorothy Squires
711002
Nursery Rhymes For Grown-Ups
Max Bygraves
711012
Circulate
Neil Sedaka
711022
Johnny Burnette
Johnny Burnette
711032
Revisited
Eartha Kitt
711042
The Frankie Vaughan Song Book
Frankie Vaughan
711052
Something Old Something New
Cliff Adams
711062
Another Black And White Minstrel Show
George Mitchell Minstrels
711072
I'll Buy You A Star
Johnny Mathis
711082
Beat Girl
Original Soundtrack
711092
Bye Bye Baby I Don't Want To Take A Chance
Mary Wells
711102
At The Theatre
Russ Conway
711112
The Time Machine
Original Soundtrack
711122
Let There Be Drums
Sandy Nelson
711132
Please Mr. Postman
The Marvelettes
711142
The Best Of Hancock
Tony Hancock
711152
A Touch Of Elegance
Andre Previn
711162
Milligan Preserved
Spike Milligan
711172
Hi We're The Miracles
The Miracles
711182
Let's Think About Livin'
Bob Luman
711192
Listen To Cliff!
Cliff Richard
711202
Someday My Prince Will Come
Miles Davis
711212
The Big Sound Of Johnny & The Hurricanes
Johnny & The Hurricanes
711222
The Fabulous Shirley Bassey
Shirley Bassey
711232
Runaround Sue
Dion
711242
Marvelous Marv Johnson
Marv Johnson
711252
Ring-A-Ding Ding!
Frank Sinatra
711262
Workshop
Chet Atkins
711272
Volume 2
Joan Baez
711282
Twist With Chubby Checker
Chubby Checker
711292
Now Here's Johnny Cash
Johnny Cash
711302
Blue Hawaii
Original Soundtrack
711312
Exodus
Original Soundtrack
711322
Bo Diddley Is A Lover
Bo Diddley
711332
Hell Bent For Leather
Frankie Laine
711342
Genius + Soul = Jazz
Ray Charles
711352
New Juke Box Hits
Chuck Berry
711362
The Best Of Barber And Bilk
Chris Barber
711372
Memories Are Made Of This
Ray Conniff
711382
Concert Spectacular
Mantovani
711402
Acker
Acker Bilk And His Paramount Jazz Band
711412
At The Rock House
Roy Orbison
711422
Beyond The Fringe
Original Soundtrack
711432
My Fair Lady
Percy Faith
711442
Oliver!
Original Cast
711452
Pinky & Perky
Pinky & Perky
711462
Send For Me
Julie London
711472
The Soulful Moods Of Marvin Gaye
Marvin Gaye
711482
I'll send you a PM to try and explain the copyright isssue!
lakedistrictlad1
01-05-2012, 01:56 PM
Everything from Andre Previn to Pinky and Perky. This is a car boot sale box right?
mysterysinger
01-05-2012, 03:33 PM
The CDs are great and there are some very interesting releases there that are about to join the others in my collection.
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