Are these for real?

[aarondillon2011@gmail.com]

I found these titles on Amazon.com. What's up with these? Surely they can't be real since the release date falls on a Sunday.

http://www.amazon.com/Baby-Dont-Want-Take-Chan/dp/B006GP3SXY/ref=sr_1_1?s=music&ie=UTF8&qid=1323066829&sr=1-1

http://www.amazon.com/Soulful-Moods-Marvin-Gaye/dp/B006GP3RKI/ref=sr_1_1?s=music&ie=UTF8&qid=1323067038&sr=1-1

http://www.amazon.com/Hi-Were-Miracles/dp/B006GP3TJ2/ref=sr_1_2?s=music&ie=UTF8&qid=1323067067&sr=1-2

http://www.amazon.com/Please-Mr-Postman-Marvelettes/dp/B006GP3SFC/ref=sr_1_1?s=music&ie=UTF8&qid=1323067119&sr=1-1

[Jimi LaLumia]

they are U.K. based releases, I believe

[lakedistrictlad1]

Avoid this label like the plague. They are basically bootlegs. They have taken advantage of the 50 year copyright law in Europe. Universal must be seriously p++ssed about this.
The new 70 year copyright ruling was passed in Brussels in September - which means that music labels like this will have to take all this stuff to their nearest landfill any day soon.

[Hotspurman]

Conclusive proof that you can't please all of the people all of the time - when we [[Hallmark) released The Explosive Freddy Cannon album on CD, the first time it had been available on any format whatsoever for more than forty years, we were commended. Dare to release a Motown album and we are condemned. By the way, although the copyright extension has been raised to 70 years, it won't actually come into law for at least twelve months, since the EU has instructed all member states to implement the law at the same time so as to avoid there being a loop hole whereby we could manufacture in a country that has not yet brought the new term in. Secondly, unlike the US, the law won't be retrospective, so anything that has fallen into the public domain will remain in the public domain - your landfill sites are safe from our CDs.

[mysterysinger]

Actually some of these "out of copyright" releases are great - those London American Story packages by One Day are excellent value and tastefully packaged too. Now then, where else could you get "The Soulful Moods of Marvin Gaye" for £2.21 and free delivery? Ok so the other 3 I've got already on official release but I guess there'll be more forthcoming and I'll be watching out for them. I would expect there'll be some unusual stuff. The collector in me says, buy them for what they are. Can anyone convince me otherwise?

[Hotspurman]

There are some really good public domain packages out there, just as there are some really bad ones. Personally, I've collected the complete UK hit singles packages on Trapeze because they are good value for money and offer the opportunity of getting those really obscure singles that just don't turn up anywhere else. The above links also miss the Marvelous Marv Johnson album we are releasing at the same time, and the reason for having 1 January as the release date is because that is the date they officially become public domain. And you're right, there are some other interesting items coming in February....

[mysterysinger]

Thanks for the tip off re Marv Johnson. Is there a website for this family of releases?

[mr_postman]

Hotspurman, since you seem to be behind these releases I would like to ask a question. Are these five reissues mentioned here in mono only, or are any of the five albums being reissued in stereo - since some of them was originally issued in stereo too back in the days?

[jobeterob]

So are we talking 1962 and prior?

[Hotspurman]

With regards to whether they are stereo or mono, I'll have to look at the original source material - I'll dig them out and let you know; as I'm sure you can appreciate, we have to source the repertoire from the original vinyl versions. The period we are talking about is 1961 and earlier - the 50 year rule applies as of 1 January each year, so an album released in February 1961 becomes public domain in 1 January 2012. Similarly, an album released in November 1962 could become public domain on 1 January 2013. Our website is being redone, but if you go to Amazon and do an advanced search for Pickwick you should be able to find details of our releases there.

[lakedistrictlad1]

I stand by my claim. Any business taking advantage of a loophole in the law to make money by copying vinyl and re-selling it to the public is basically making bootlegs.

[Hotspurman]

And none of us buy mail order from Amazon or HMV because they exploit the loophole in the law that allows them to sell from the Channel Islands and not have to charge VAT....

[144man]

That was a concession rather than a loophole and will be abolished from 1st April, 2012 for imports from the EU.

[paul_nixon]

And I guess nobody who owns a Kindle will be reading Charles Dickens or the like on their machine

[tamla617]

a loop hole is a loop hole and i'm jumpin' thru' it and getting 4 cds' for £2.21 each!

and a loop hole is within the law btw

[tamla617]

Avoid this label like the plague. They are basically bootlegs. They have taken advantage of the 50 year copyright law in Europe. Universal must be seriously p++ssed about this.
The new 70 year copyright ruling was passed in Brussels in September - which means that music labels like this will have to take all this stuff to their nearest landfill any day soon.

universal should have released it then as far i'm concerned.this outfits seen what the market wants and acted on it.universal doesnt move quick enough to keep their assets who's fault is it?and why should you or i be bothered about universal not getting the reddies.it aint motown anymore.

[Hotspurman]

To be fair to Universal, our minimum manufacturing run is well below what they have to do, so these albums may not make commercial sense for an organisation of their size. And yes, I have used my [[somewhat limited by comparison to some of the people on this website) knowledge of Motown to source those albums that were released within the time frame necessary. But the same would apply to our forthcoming Huey Piano Smith, Jackie Wilson, Gary US Bonds and even Huckelberry Hound albums. I do appreciate that Motown is a slightly different kettle of fish to all these other artists, and I did briefly wonder if Motown was sacrosanct with regards to doing reissues, but I guess I wouldn't be in a job for too long if I was to ignore Motown, Blue Note and Atlantic [[two other labels I greatly admire, by the way) simply because some people would get upset. And by the way, so far all the copies I've checked are mono copies...

[mysterysinger]

A daft question I suppose, but exactly what is it that is out of copyright? Is it, for example, a particular album or single release, or simply the songs, and if the latter, why could these not be sourced from CD? Is it, for example, that an album issued in 1961 is out of copyright, but a re-issued version in say 1968 may not be? Or is it, for example, when a song was first released? So a song recorded in 1961, but vaulted, and then issued for the first time in 2011 is brand new in copyright? Interesting.

[Hotspurman]

Any record released in 1961 will fall into the public domain on 1 January 2012. Records released in 1960 became public domain on 1 January 2011, and so on. The copyright last for fifty years [[at present) from the date of original release, so recordings made in 1961 but which didn't get released until say 2007 have a further fifty years copyright protection. We don't use CDs to source material for various reasons, but suffice to say most of the major companies will watermark tracks or otherwise have some form of copyright protection - there could be subtle changes to the tracks that would mean we infringe their copyright if we were to source from CD, so we source from the original vinyl. Hard to believe I know, but even us budget companies have ethics!

[mysterysinger]

Nothing wrong with budget stuff in my opinion - there have been a number of labels that have given us some good Motown stuff over the years MFP / Regal Starline etc Also, Marble Arch, I believe issued some Tammi Terrel pre-Motown stuff on The Early Show LP.

Does Pickwick/Hallmark have any relationship to the budget records that used to be so common in Woolworths [[and producers ot the Top Of The Pops series etc)?
Weren't some US Motown re-released albums issued through the Pickwick imprint?

[Roger Polhill]

Hotspurman why don`t you approach Universal/Motown about the rights to TM. 222 "The Great Gospel Stars" and TM.227
"They Shall Be Mine" Rev. Columbus Mann. Both are 1962 recordings and have not been released on cd.As the market for
these would not be huge they may supply the masters for a reduced fee.Just a hopeful suggestion.

[Hotspurman]

Pickwick/Hallmark were the producers of the Top of the Pops series and you're right, Pickwick in the US and the UK licensed some product from Motown during the late 1970s/early 1980s. With regards to approaching Universal, it might be worth a try, however the last time I did make enquiries [[not of Universal, it must be said) we were still being quoted £500 per track for licensing - you can imagine how many copies we'd have to shift to cover our costs on a twelve track album! As for The Great Gospel Stars and The Rev Columbus Mann, well the Gospel Stars was released in 1961 so that will be public domain on 1 January, so as they say, watch this space....

[satipe]

Hotspurman,

May I ask the question of what happens to royalty payments to the artists and does public domain mean that they do not need to be compensated? Just wondering...

[stephanie]

I used to laugh at Pickwick and K-Tel as a child although I got albums from them and now I wish they still existed. Huckelberry Hound! He sang songs? I see him in the list.

[copley]

Am I correct in saying that these CD's use vinyl as a source and that no re-mastering has been undertaken?

[jbpintus]

...and what about "The Twistin Kings" ?

If dubs from vinyle are good, like the Vinyle Masterpieces cd label releases are, well, I'll buy THE TWISTIN KINGS and THE GOSPEL STARS if released.

JB

[Roger Polhill]

Quite a few tracks from "Complete Motown Singles Vol. 1" are mastered from original vinyl 45s and they sound just fine to me.

[Hotspurman]

Dealing with the questions one by one - there are no royalties due to the artists, that is the public domain part. BUT, there are royalties due to the composers in the form of MCPS payments. There has actually been some considerable debate about this over the years - believe it or not, most of the budget/reissue companies would be willing to pay a royalty to the artist, but how you administer it has not been worked out. I do think that in many cases, just having the albums out there earning composer royalties goes some way towards recompensing those who created the music in the first place. I know from some of the earlier posts there are those who don't agree with what we are doing, but I also know from experience that there are some artists [[and I won't name names) still around who have actually started receiving money from MCPS because of tracks they wrote more than fifty years ago. Our CDs are sourced from the original vinyl; we try to clean them up as much as we can without compressing the sound too much - sometimes we get complaints that we do too much cleaning up and lose some of the crispness, and other times we get complaints that we haven't done enough and you can hear pops and hisses. We do as much as we can to make the transfer acceptable. With regards to February releases, it's everything else that has fallen into the public domain, so we have The Great Gospel Stars, Twistin' Kings [[hopefully - still waiting on the original LP), Cookin' With The Miracles, More Marv Johnson etc etc. The Gospel Stars album is the only one so far that the original album is not top quality, but listening to it I would say that it is acceptable and a vital release given its importance as the first Motown album ever released. And, apart from Huckelberry Hound, we also have Tom & Jerry [[that is Simon & Garfunkel as was, not the cat and mouse!), Steptoe & Son, Spike Milligan, Tony Hancock, The Ventures, Duane Eddy, Ray Charles and a host of others.

[Hotspurman]

Twistin' Kings - original LP turned up!

[lakedistrictlad1]

I might burn my Twistin Kings and Gospel Stars lp's to cd and go and sell them on the corner of Tottenham Court Road. We all may as well make some cash out of it!!

[Calv1971]

It would great if The Gospel Stars, Twistin Kings etc do get a CD release, we would probably have to pay hundreds of dollars for an original Gospel Stars lp, so l am more than happy to pay the £2.21 or thereabouts for a CD using a vinyl source even if it does sound like a chip pan frying in the background!

[Roger Polhill]

I`m with you calv I`ve had my "Twistin` Around The World" converted to cd. and it`s fine to my ears.

[jillfoster]

I might burn my Twistin Kings and Gospel Stars lp's to cd and go and sell them on the corner of Tottenham Court Road. We all may as well make some cash out of it!!

you certainly can if you want. That's what public domain is all about. Mark my words, in 20 years, record companies will try to extend copyright 20 more years again... and so on and so on. Eventually, it will be up to 200 years!

[psychedelic jacques]

so there we go - eleven years and one month to wait before we finally get TCMS 1972 a&b - the Hallmark Edition [[presumably with a greetings card tucked in the front sleeve rather than a 45rpm single). Counting the days...

[Hotspurman]

you certainly can if you want. That's what public domain is all about. Mark my words, in 20 years, record companies will try to extend copyright 20 more years again... and so on and so on. Eventually, it will be up to 200 years!

We are on the way to perpetual copyright, which is what the big companies have always worked towards. How ironic that the main motivators behind this are the Disney company, who founded virtually their entire business on exploiting public domain novels....

[tamla617]

I used to laugh at Pickwick and K-Tel as a child although I got albums from them and now I wish they still existed. Huckelberry Hound! He sang songs? I see him in the list.

oh my darlin' clemantine [[or clementine!)i remember that from the huckelberry hound show around 60/61/62

[arrr&bee]

oh my darlin' clemantine [[or clementine!)i remember that from the huckelberry hound show around 60/61/62
haaaaaaaaaaaaa,is ol huck still alive?? What a dog i heard the he and yogi got into it after huck caught boo-boo pawing aroung his trailer looking for a pic-a nik basket and deputy dawg himself had to step in to stop the fur from flying!!

[mysterysinger]

Well my first four albums arrived today from Amazon [[Please Mr Postman, Bye Bye Baby, Hi We're The Miracles and The Soulful Moods of Marvin Gaye) with just the Marv Johnson release to come. I got them at the pre-order price but I notice they've more than doubled the cost now. Have only played the Marvin Gaye one but the CDs seem very well presented. I'm happy with them and I'm looking forward to the next releases in this series.

Can anyone explain the numbering sequences to me though [[Hotspurman)? Viz
Soulful Moods of Marvin Gaye 711482
Hi We're The Miracles 711182
Mary Wells Bye Bye Baby 711102
Please Mr Postman 711142

I think the 2 at the end probably signifies a CD release but how does the rest come to be allocated? What happened to the good old days of sequential numbers when collectors knew where they were up to [[TML11001 etc).

[Hotspurman]

Well, I never thought I'd have to try and explain our numbering system! Our General Manager allocated the numbers, based on a release schedule of some 71 CD's I wanted to release in January, which were either alphabetically listed or numerically listed on our digital database [[I can't remember which). The 2 does signify a CD release, and the rest forms part of the item barcode. With regards to prices on Amazon, they seemed to start at £2.16, went up to £4.16 and have now fallen again to £3.16 - all those that ordered when they first went online shoould have got them at the lower price.

[mysterysinger]

Ok so what I need now is a list of all 71 releases. I guess it will include some more Cliff stuff, maybe Roy O, Bobby Vee?

Confusion again though - do these releases in 2012 mean that the albums are now copyright again? And whose copyright?

[Hotspurman]

Here's the full list for January:



21 Today

Cliff Richard

710252



Tom & Jerry Meet Tico & The Triumphs

Tom & Jerry & Tico & The Triumphs

710272



Never On Sunday

Original Soundtrack

710542



Stop The World - I Want To Get Off

Anthony Newley

710782



Rockin' With Ricky

Ricky Nelson

710792



Wimoweh

Karl Denver

710802



Another Smash

The Ventures

710812



The Shadows

The Shadows

710822



Stringbeat

John Barry

710832



Girls Girls Girls

Duane Eddy

710842



A Date With The Everly Brothers

Everly Brothers

710852



Great Songs From Motion Pictures

Hugo Montenegro

710862



The Roaring 20's

Dorothy Provine

710872



At The Copa

Connie Francis

710892



Stranger On The Shore

Acker Bilk

710902



1961

Temperance Seven

710912



This Is Brenda

Brenda Lee

710932



Steptoe & Son

Steptoe & Son

710942



Halfway To Paradise

Billy Fury

710952



I Left My Heart In San Francisco

Tony Bennett

710962



Runaway

Del Shannon

710972



I Like It Swinging

Buddy Greco

710982



Black Coffee

Peggy Lee

710992



Three Beautiful Words Of Love

Dorothy Squires

711002



Nursery Rhymes For Grown-Ups

Max Bygraves

711012



Circulate

Neil Sedaka

711022



Johnny Burnette

Johnny Burnette

711032



Revisited

Eartha Kitt

711042



The Frankie Vaughan Song Book

Frankie Vaughan

711052



Something Old Something New

Cliff Adams

711062



Another Black And White Minstrel Show

George Mitchell Minstrels

711072



I'll Buy You A Star

Johnny Mathis

711082



Beat Girl

Original Soundtrack

711092



Bye Bye Baby I Don't Want To Take A Chance

Mary Wells

711102



At The Theatre

Russ Conway

711112



The Time Machine

Original Soundtrack

711122



Let There Be Drums

Sandy Nelson

711132



Please Mr. Postman

The Marvelettes

711142



The Best Of Hancock

Tony Hancock

711152



A Touch Of Elegance

Andre Previn

711162



Milligan Preserved

Spike Milligan

711172



Hi We're The Miracles

The Miracles

711182



Let's Think About Livin'

Bob Luman

711192



Listen To Cliff!

Cliff Richard

711202



Someday My Prince Will Come

Miles Davis

711212



The Big Sound Of Johnny & The Hurricanes

Johnny & The Hurricanes

711222



The Fabulous Shirley Bassey

Shirley Bassey

711232



Runaround Sue

Dion

711242



Marvelous Marv Johnson

Marv Johnson

711252



Ring-A-Ding Ding!

Frank Sinatra

711262



Workshop

Chet Atkins

711272



Volume 2

Joan Baez

711282



Twist With Chubby Checker

Chubby Checker

711292



Now Here's Johnny Cash

Johnny Cash

711302



Blue Hawaii

Original Soundtrack

711312



Exodus

Original Soundtrack

711322



Bo Diddley Is A Lover

Bo Diddley

711332



Hell Bent For Leather

Frankie Laine

711342



Genius + Soul = Jazz

Ray Charles

711352



New Juke Box Hits

Chuck Berry

711362



The Best Of Barber And Bilk

Chris Barber

711372



Memories Are Made Of This

Ray Conniff

711382



Concert Spectacular

Mantovani

711402



Acker

Acker Bilk And His Paramount Jazz Band

711412



At The Rock House

Roy Orbison

711422



Beyond The Fringe

Original Soundtrack

711432



My Fair Lady

Percy Faith

711442



Oliver!

Original Cast

711452



Pinky & Perky

Pinky & Perky

711462



Send For Me

Julie London

711472



The Soulful Moods Of Marvin Gaye

Marvin Gaye

711482




I'll send you a PM to try and explain the copyright isssue!

[lakedistrictlad1]

Everything from Andre Previn to Pinky and Perky. This is a car boot sale box right?

[mysterysinger]

The CDs are great and there are some very interesting releases there that are about to join the others in my collection.