Patti Labelle addresses audience about RTL

[jillfoster]

I know sh'es on the shit list right about now... but apparently the audience is in full support of her statements:


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f_aADLLXNSc&feature=related

[kenneth]

I think she made that dress from a tent seized at Occupy Wall Street.

[whitesoxx]

yawn.......

[midnightman]

LOL @ Kenneth.

Y'all hear about Patti's new lawsuit? Not only getting people to beat up cadets, now she's throwing bottles at babies and punching mothers. What? lol I understand being upset at someone supposedly "scampering" a lobby but did she really have to? lol

2011 has not been a good year for Ms. Patti Patti.

[Roberta75]

I know sh'es on the shit list right about now... but apparently the audience is in full support of her statements:


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f_aADLLXNSc&feature=related

Big yawn for a very tired subject.

[luke]

Thanks Jill-her bluntness is refreshing!

[marv2]

I remember Patti speaking out about the situation surrounding the Return to Love Tour. She was a bit more free and detailed with her thoughts about it here in New York. She can be quite direct.

[midnightman]

Thanks Jill-her bluntness is refreshing!

"Me and Keith Sweat ain't going out!" lol

[captainjames]

How old is this ? She already tried the Labelle tour and it tanked.

[jillfoster]

How old is this ? She already tried the Labelle tour and it tanked.

I never heard about the Labelle tour not doing well. Do you have any sources to back up this assertion?

[luke]

My understanding is the tour did ok-not great but not horrible. I believe one show was moved to a smaller venue. It was sure packed when I went.

[robbert]

I remember vividly from several press sources that the Labelle Tour was a more or less unexpected succes.

[jobeterob]

If you read Soulful Divas by David Nathan, and some comments by Gladys Knight and Patti, you will find the diva they don't get on with is Aretha.

But poor Patti, she's had a bad year; something isn't right; she's quite a bit beyond her Best Before Date. Maybe a break would be a good idea. None of these girls are coming up with hit material at their age; all the kids just think what we thought of Frank Sinatra........OLD.

[BobC]

The tour did okay. The timing was terrible--it started right as the economic meltdown began and everybody was afraid to spend money on entertainment. Then there were snow storms everywhere [[the storm on opening night at the Apollo was so bad it knocked out the electricity for a while and the sound system never recovered) and the shows were scheduled right around Christmas so people were busy with that. Also--I believe Labelle should have reunited when the re-make of Lady M was at number one, but unfortunately Nona and Patti were already involved with other projects so they had to do the tour when their schedules were clear. So the timing was all wrong. The album did fairly well, considering the economic meltdown and the fact that the group wasn't very well known to the average person on the street. I'm just glad I finally got to see them live--although it was clear both Patti and Sarah's voices were not as strong as they once were. Patti was constantly complaining about not feeling well and had to sit down a lot.

[carlo]

Patti was constantly complaining about not feeling well and had to sit down a lot.

Didn't she have to have someone bring her chocolate cake onstage? I remember seeing a clip from one of the shows and she seemed to be having some sort of diabetic thing going on.

[reese]

Didn't she have to have someone bring her chocolate cake onstage? I remember seeing a clip from one of the shows and she seemed to be having some sort of diabetic thing going on.

That happened at the Apollo on the second night. She also had to wear flats for a stretch instead of her usual pumps.

I caught the shows at the Apollo and the Beacon. Both were very good. But I think after that, the tour just sort of petered out. Months later, at a benefit that Patti was headlining, I spoke with one of her staff. I mentioned the reunion shows, and he shook his head. He didn't elaborate, but said there was some strain among the principals.

[luke]

Good point BobC. I was at the Apollo the first night which was a mess. Patti just sat down and seemed mad or out of it when electric system shut down. Nona seemed to take over. Patti seemed ill overall. But vocally they were fantastic. Sarah seems stronger than ever to me.

[BobC]

I was there the first night at the Apollo too. You really think Sarah sounded better than ever? Not me--I don't think her voice has aged well--it's lower than it used to be. Check out the live clip from 1976 of Labelle doing "Going Down Makes Me Shiver" on Youtube-- she was absolutely stunning.

[marv2]

I know sh'es on the shit list right about now... but apparently the audience is in full support of her statements:



Well it seemed that the whole country was in agreement with her statement that Diana Ross should have only done that tour with Mary and Cindy. They voted with their wallets and pocketbooks!

[simplysupreme]

Well it seemed that the whole country was in agreement with her statement that Diana Ross should have only done that tour with Mary and Cindy. They voted with their wallets and pocketbooks!

They sure showed Patti. Maybe SHE should have had Cindy on her tour since she was so concerned.

[BobC]

Why? It was a Labelle reunion not a Bluebelles reunion.

[simplysupreme]

As I said, she was so concerned about Cindy in the Supremes show. She could have easily done a Bluebelle segment and included Cindy.

[jillfoster]

That happened at the Apollo on the second night. She also had to wear flats for a stretch instead of her usual pumps.

I caught the shows at the Apollo and the Beacon. Both were very good. But I think after that, the tour just sort of petered out. Months later, at a benefit that Patti was headlining, I spoke with one of her staff. I mentioned the reunion shows, and he shook his head. He didn't elaborate, but said there was some strain among the principals.

So, essentially, Nona couldn't put up with her crazy ass? This is no surprise.

[Roberta75]

So, essentially, Nona couldn't put up with her crazy ass? This is no surprise.

I think you just nailed it jillfoster.

Roberta

[BobC]

I guess you can never really go back...

[marv2]

As I said, she was so concerned about Cindy in the Supremes show. She could have easily done a Bluebelle segment and included Cindy.

No, there are certain principles we all learn that we should live by. Doing what's right and fair is one of them. I understand now, that there are others that have grown up totally A-MORAL and have very little concern or compassion for their fellow human being. What Patti meant was clear to me. The right and fair thing that Diana Ross should have done was to have Mary and Cindy on that tour being that they were the ones in the group with her before she went solo.

[jillfoster]

I guess you can never really go back...

So, Bob..... you said she cooked you dinner once, I'm dying to know, what did she fix? Was it any good?

[motony]

A friend of mine has a Patti Labelle cookbook so I bet she can throw down in the kitchen.

[jillfoster]

I bet she can, too.

[BobC]

Hi Jill

It was a long time ago--maybe 1989--and it was some sort of cajun thing with shrimp if I recall correctly. It was great! . I remember that she had all these cooking things with her like hot plates and seasonings--and I was thinking that was weird because this was the height of her career and she could just go to a restaurant. Apparently she just liked to cook! Patti was nice but she talked down several other singers who will remain nameless. It was funny, really, but she always acted like she was good friends with these two singers when she talked about them on TV. Oh well--who knows?

[Roberta75]

Hi Jill

It was a long time ago--maybe 1989--and it was some sort of cajun thing with shrimp if I recall correctly. It was great! . I remember that she had all these cooking things with her like hot plates and seasonings--and I was thinking that was weird because this was the height of her career and she could just go to a restaurant. Apparently she just liked to cook! Patti was nice but she talked down several other singers who will remain nameless. It was funny, really, but she always acted like she was good friends with these two singers when she talked about them on TV. Oh well--who knows?

You don't have to answer but I'd say the two singers are Dionne Warwick and Gladys Knight. Am I warm?

Roberta

[BobC]

Uhhhhh...I can neither confirm nor deny those names. But I do believe "horse-faced heffer" [[something close to that) was used to describe one. Hee hee!

[Roberta75]

Uhhhhh...I can neither confirm nor deny those names. But I do believe "horse-faced heffer" [[something close to that) was used to describe one. Hee hee!

LOL Thanks BobC. Miss Patti is a piece of work huh?

[jillfoster]

Uhhhhh...I can neither confirm nor deny those names. But I do believe "horse-faced heffer" [[something close to that) was used to describe one. Hee hee! Oh.... now you've got me all atwitter! I'd love some juicy dirt on this. you can send a private message if you don't feel comfortable divulging in public. Cajun shrimp dish... sounds similar to that dish Aretha made on Rolanda Watts' show.

[BobC]

I try not to get into these peoples' personal lives--but other people who were there kind of egged Patti on. Patti seemed sane to me at this time--I have no idea what's going on with her these days--but then again I don't know Patti on a personal level. That was the only time I spent time with her like that and I was pretty shy, unlike others. Nona has always spoken highly of Patti-- but I have never heard Nona say a bad word about anybody. I asked Nona what she thought about the Labelle reunion and she said they had some stellar nights on that tour. I didn't pry.

[BobC]

Jill--I would rather not say, but it isn't hard to guess. I also recall she didn't like Diana Ross at all--and I can say that because she's already spoken about it publicly. I remember Patti telling that story about how DR had copied the Bluebelle's stage costumes back in the old days when they toured together--making the Bluebelles look like they were copying the Supremes. She said she wanted to beat DR up. All the while she's talking about that incident, I was thinking that I'd already heard that story from a guy who used to work for the Supremes--only it was the Vandellas that DR stole costumes from! Later when Martha Reeves wrote her memoirs, she talked about it--and so did Mary Wilson--and it was definitely not the Bluebelles. So did DR bite the style of both groups? I don't know! But I doubt it. It reminded me of how Patti talked about how, when she was dating Otis from the Temptations, that she had to break up with him because he insisted she quit show-biz. If you read Otis' memoirs, he talks about reading that in Patti's book and he had no idea what she was talking about! He said he'd never ask another singer to quit singing. Sooooo--take these things as you will, but I personally feel Patti may have a "rich inner life."

[Rosie]

Uhhhhh...I can neither confirm nor deny those names. But I do believe "horse-faced heffer" [[something close to that) was used to describe one. Hee hee!
Whaaa[[t)?! Thats rough!

[marv2]

I try not to get into these peoples' personal lives--but other people who were there kind of egged Patti on. Patti seemed sane to me at this time--I have no idea what's going on with her these days--but then again I don't know Patti on a personal level. That was the only time I spent time with her like that and I was pretty shy, unlike others. Nona has always spoken highly of Patti-- but I have never heard Nona say a bad word about anybody. I asked Nona what she thought about the Labelle reunion and she said they had some stellar nights on that tour. I didn't pry.

Your story reminds of that clip that use to be on Youtube from Patti's old TV Show. In the clip I saw she had Phylicia Rashad and another woman I can't remember her name at the moment in her kitchen and Patti was feeding them something she had made when she commented about wanting to go to Detroit and cut Diana Ross up when Cindy Birdsong defected to the Supremes. It was funny to me.

Nona Hendryx has definitely had her share of things to say about others [[even on national television programs like "Video Soul" with Donnie Simpson). But hey these are women of a certain age that came up a similar way. It is not out of character at all to have them say and do certain things. Even if they were not entertainers, there are a lot of woman that act like this. It's hard to explain and be politically correct at the same time LOL!

[marv2]

Jill--I would rather not say, but it isn't hard to guess. I also recall she didn't like Diana Ross at all--and I can say that because she's already spoken about it publicly. I remember Patti telling that story about how DR had copied the Bluebelle's stage costumes back in the old days when they toured together--making the Bluebelles look like they were copying the Supremes. She said she wanted to beat DR up. All the while she's talking about that incident, I was thinking that I'd already heard that story from a guy who used to work for the Supremes--only it was the Vandellas that DR stole costumes from! Later when Martha Reeves wrote her memoirs, she talked about it--and so did Mary Wilson--and it was definitely not the Bluebelles. So did DR bite the style of both groups? I don't know! But I doubt it. It reminded me of how Patti talked about how, when she was dating Otis from the Temptations, that she had to break up with him because he insisted she quit show-biz. If you read Otis' memoirs, he talks about reading that in Patti's book and he had no idea what she was talking about! He said he'd never ask another singer to quit singing. Sooooo--take these things as you will, but I personally feel Patti may have a "rich inner life."


Nope, nope, nope! I believe Patti is telling the truth because I have seen the picture of the Supremes in the outfits that Patti describe Ross ripping them off for. Also, Otis needs to stop it! LOL! He said things in his book "Temptations" that Eddie Kendricks said never happened. The part where Otis describes being visited by Paul Williams ghost and then Otis telling Eddie about it and Eddie responding, "yeah.......he came to see me too" was not true and Otis made it up!

He could have asked her to quit being that his home base was Detroit and hers being Philly. Add to that all the traveling for performances. They would hardly ever see each other.

[BobC]

Marv--I cringe when I read old interviews with Nona--you are right, she used to talk crap. I have an article where she said Labelle could always "sing the Supremes under the table." I was shocked! That is not the woman I know. Maybe over time some of Nona's comments have come back to haunt her, so she's gotten less...uhhh...bitchy.

[marv2]

Marv--I cringe when I read old interviews with Nona--you are right, she used to talk crap. I have an article where she said Labelle could always "sing the Supremes under the table." I was shocked! That is not the woman I know. Maybe over time some of Nona's comments have come back to haunt her, so she's gotten less...uhhh...bitchy.

Oh Nona use to talk beaucoup s*^t! She has said much worse than that. They all have! Name one that hasn't. You used the word "bitchy" I was thinking one that's different. Everyone of those woman that have been discussed on this forum has said "things" even the ones that are generally regarded as nearly "saints"! Even Cindy! LOL!!!

[jillfoster]

Yes, Bob... Diana stole dresses from Martha and them as well. More than once. the yellow they wear signing The Happening are just one such set.

[luke]

Well actually Sarah didnt get much time solo singing at the show but I thought their harmonies were great. I heard a recent recording on her website called Im Still Here that is fantastic! And Patti also had a few choice things to say at another concert per Cindy and Mary not being included. It was published in a national magazine. It was great to hear her sticking up for the original Supremes, as did Jennifer Holiday!

[marv2]

Well actually Sarah didnt get much time solo singing at the show but I thought their harmonies were great. I heard a recent recording on her website called Im Still Here that is fantastic! And Patti also had a few choice things to say at another concert per Cindy and Mary not being included. It was published in a national magazine. It was great to hear her sticking up for the original Supremes, as did Jennifer Holiday!


Jennifer Holiday spoke up too?

[luke]

Yes she did, about Mary being an original and should have been included.

[smark21]

What did Shantal Baker have to say about RTL? Anyone know?

[dianesfan_1965]

What did Shantal Baker have to say about RTL? Anyone know?

I think Pearlie told her to shut up about it.

[smark21]

I think Pearlie told her to shut up about it.

Pearlie must have been upset that Diana picked Lynda and Scherrie to go on tour rather than herself and Shantal.

[marv2]

Yes she did, about Mary being an original and should have been included.

That is interesting. I never knew that especially coming from her. So many celebrities voiced their opinions on RTL. Everyone from Jay Leno to Wilson Pickett, from Berry Gordy to Anita Ward! LOL!

[luke]

Yep; and I didnt know about Jay and Wilson and Anita--what did they say?

[marv2]

Yep; and I didnt know about Jay and Wilson and Anita--what did they say?

Anita Ward and her husband thought that it was unfair but that Mary should have just took the money and ran. . Jay Leno did an almost nightly monologue with a skit poking fun of Diana Ross's "Return to Love Tour". Wilson Pickett, after calling Diana the ugliest woman he had ever seen [[then said she became a beautiful woman later in life....) said that Mary should take the money, but do as little as possible LOL! There were lots people commenting. It was such a big story here in New York that KISS-FM held a special 2 hour call in program the day the Grand Central Station press conference. I have never seen anything like that.

[luke]

I was making a long trip and heard people calling in-I guess it was KISS-and people were not happy about this RTL. It shows the imapact of the Supremes that regular people taking time to call a radio station to express their displeasure.

[marv2]

I was making a long trip and heard people calling in-I guess it was KISS-and people were not happy about this RTL. It shows the imapact of the Supremes that regular people taking time to call a radio station to express their displeasure.

Add to that the anchors of all three major New York City television stations voicing their opinions. The anchors on channels 2,4 and 7 went off [[as much as they could get away with, hehehehehe) giving their displeasure over the announcement of who was going to be a part of that tour. I think it was channel 4 that went directly to Mary's apartment to interview her immediately LOL!!!!

[thaperson]

I'm glad Patti is looking out for Cindy, especially since there's never been a Bluebell reunion tour. And the Bluebelles were before Labelle. There would have been no Labelle had there been no Bluebelles.

And Patti didn't even want the Labelle that was presented to the public. If she had her way, there would have been no LADY MARMALADE or no wild outfits. But there still would have been a Bluebelles.

I'm curious as to why Cindy has never been asked to perform with them? Patti has performed and recorded numerous times with Nona and Sarah since Labelle ended. But not once with Cindy. Strange.

[luke]

Reportedly Nona never fully forgave Cindy. Patti did when she wrote her book and talked to Cindy. They did sing together for R and B induction. Oh how I wish there was a tape of that!!

[jillfoster]

And one must keep in mind, Marv, of all the tv and radio personalities, other celebrities, not ONE came down on Diana's side, except maybe Oprah. But Oprah is her lapdog, and everyone knows that.

[reese]

Reportedly Nona never fully forgave Cindy. Patti did when she wrote her book and talked to Cindy. They did sing together for R and B induction. Oh how I wish there was a tape of that!!

They showed a clip of the R&B induction during one of Patti's OPRAH appearances.

When Labelle had their reunion concert at the Beacon, I asked why they weren't doing any Bluebelles material. Patti started singing DOWN THE AISLE, and Sarah commented that during their next NYC appearance, maybe they would have Cindy with them. It didn't happen, but it would have been nice.

[simplysupreme]

And one must keep in mind, Marv, of all the tv and radio personalities, other celebrities, not ONE came down on Diana's side, except maybe Oprah. But Oprah is her lapdog, and everyone knows that.


Flo Anthony, Sam Moore and Gene Simmons did.

[jillfoster]

Flo Anthony, Sam Moore and Gene Simmons did.

But Gene Simmons fucked her, so what would you expect? Where did Sam Moore say this? Flo Anthony I can't figure out, didn't she write the foreward to Tony Turner's book?

[marv2]

And one must keep in mind, Marv, of all the tv and radio personalities, other celebrities, not ONE came down on Diana's side, except maybe Oprah. But Oprah is her lapdog, and everyone knows that.


Oprah made herself look totally ridiculous during that time for someone that supposedly has her finger on the pulse of the American public. She tried to make out like it was all no big deal, when we all knew that it was! LOL! Even after promoting the tour on her show, it tanked and was cancelled! She should have learned something from that.

[marv2]

Flo Anthony, Sam Moore and Gene Simmons did.

I highly doubt Flo Anthony [[who most people don't even know) came down on the wrong side and you have to show me where Sam Moore did because he and Mary have a very good relationship. Gene Simmons? Who he? LOL! Sorry I mean any man that gets on television, sticks out his tongue and then brags about sleeping with upwards of 4,000 woman is not someone that generally is respected.

[marv2]

But Gene Simmons fucked her, so what would you expect? Where did Sam Moore say this? Flo Anthony I can't figure out, didn't she write the foreward to Tony Turner's book?


Exactly Jill! I cannot believe Sam Moore sided with Ross and Flo Anthony claims to be such a good , good friend to Mary and her family. But Gene Simmons? Give me a break!

[simplysupreme]

Predictable. Flo Anthony is more well known than the New York DJs you referenced earlier. She said she saw nothing wrong with Diana touring with Lynda and Scherrie as they were Supremes. Sam Moore said Mary should have kept her mouth shut, took the offer and ran to the bank before the ink dried on the check. Gene pretty much said the same thing. Luther obviously didn't have a problem either as he attended 2 shows.

[simplysupreme]

Even Mary's fan club pres., at the time, Carl was in the audience at the Oprah taping.

[marv2]

Predictable. Flo Anthony is more well known than the New York DJs you referenced earlier. She said she saw nothing wrong with Diana touring with Lynda and Scherrie as they were Supremes. Sam Moore said Mary should have kept her mouth shut, took the offer and ran to the bank before the ink dried on the check. Gene pretty much said the same thing. Luther obviously didn't have a problem either as he attended 2 shows.


Show me where I reference ONE New York City DJ or Television News Anchor by name? If that is all Flo Anthony said, then I would hardly call it an endorsement. All those old timers like Sam Moore that have known Mary and the others for years said somthing similiar to what you are stating . Didn't you read my earlier post? They know how hard it's been on the road.

I was just about to say name one celebrity that attended the Return to Love Concert OTHER THAN Luther Vandross? The reason I was going to exclude him because he was at Mary Wilson's concert in New York that same summer. I saw him there.

[luke]

Flo Anthony has always seemed like a lapdog to me- of the rich and famous--Jacksons, Whitney etc She comes across like their spokesperson and advocate-not an objective journalist if thats what she is supposed to be.

[Roberta75]

Flo Anthony has always seemed like a lapdog to me- of the rich and famous--Jacksons, Whitney etc She comes across like their spokesperson and advocate-not an objective journalist if thats what she is supposed to be.

Yet if Flo Anthony had backed Mary Wilson you'd be singing her praises.

[marv2]

Even Mary's fan club pres., at the time, Carl was in the audience at the Oprah taping.

and the audience froze and the cameras swung towards Carl Feuerbacher when he walked in? Give me a break, he was there because of Scherrie Payne. Don't make me say much more than that, hehehehehehehehe!!!!

[simplysupreme]

Yet if Flo Anthony had backed Mary Wilson you'd be singing her praises.

You know it!

[simplysupreme]

and the audience froze and the cameras swung towards Carl Feuerbacher when he walked in? Give me a break, he was there because of Scherrie Payne. Don't make me say much more than that, hehehehehehehehe!!!!

Whatever the reason, he was there.

[marv2]

Yet if Flo Anthony had backed Mary Wilson you'd be singing her praises.

I will sing her praises now. Back in January of 1994 when Mary had that tragic accident and her son Rafael passed away, Flo Anthony went on the air, on ET and BET to give reports on Mary's condition and how she was traveling to Vegas as they were preparing for her daughters wedding at the time before the accident. I still have the video clips. Flo Anthony has always backed Mary Wilson in print and through electronic media.

[marv2]

Whatever the reason, he was there.


I am happy that after all these years, that is all you know about it! LOL!!!!

[marv2]

Flo Anthony has always seemed like a lapdog to me- of the rich and famous--Jacksons, Whitney etc She comes across like their spokesperson and advocate-not an objective journalist if thats what she is supposed to be.

That is exactly how she comes across. She does that with Mary. During the time of the accident, she came across as the Wilson-Ferrer Family spokesperson on television.

[luke]

So what if he was there[[I thought he had stepped down from fan club). Mary said "Let her have her tour"-she never discouraged people from going.

[simplysupreme]

I am happy that after all these years, that is all you know about it! LOL!!!!

That's all I need to know. Obviously, whatever loyalty he had for Mary didn't keep him from going to the taping.

[luke]

Marv-does she contact these people or just go on tv and acts like she knows it all? Who employs her?

[simplysupreme]

So what if he was there[[I thought he had stepped down from fan club). Mary said "Let her have her tour"-she never discouraged people from going.

And I say the same to you, while you quote Anita Ward. So what about whatever it is you say she said?

[marv2]

So what if he was there[[I thought he had stepped down from fan club). Mary said "Let her have her tour"-she never discouraged people from going.

Exactly! I stood right next to Mary and heard her say to a group of people here on Long Island when someone said "we are not going to see that tour", Mary said "Y'all do whatever y'all want to do......."

There was so much going on at that time as I recall. Ticket sales were so poor for Jones Beach here on Long Island that they cancelled the concert and then the tour directly after that.

[Roberta75]

That's all I need to know. Obviously, whatever loyalty he had for Mary didn't keep him from going to the taping.

Do yourself a favor and stick him on ignore simplysupreme. The way he drones on you would think he was the RTL wardrobe mistress, SFX Negotiator, publicist and spokesperson for both Mary and Diane. LOL

[marv2]

Marv-does she contact these people or just go on tv and acts like she knows it all? Who employs her?

I think she is more like Rona Barrett. She has had some contact with these people at different times, but I highly doubt she was in direct contact with Mary at that time. Hell, half of Detroit it seems flew out to LA immediately following that accident so there is no way Flo Anthony could have even gotten anywhere near Mary to speak to her. I don't know who employs her. She was associated with a publication called "Sister2Sister" at one time I recall.

[thaperson]

Nona needs to get over it. But she managed to carve out a somewhat successful career, so she does have a leg to stand on, unlike others who shall not be mentioned.

The bottom line is Patti has no business lecturing on how they should tour when she can't even get her three girls together in the same room.

[luke]

Mary has so much grace and dignity then-almost too much considering all that went down. She told people at BB Kings to stop yelling "Diana who" at Marys show when she brought the house down-and she affimred Flo AND Diana.

[simplysupreme]

Do yourself a favor and stick him on ignore simplysupreme. The way he drones on you would think he was the RTL wardrobe mistress, SFX Negotiator, publicist and spokesperson for both Mary and Diane. LOL

LOL! He and that sidekick of his are a riot!

[marv2]

And I say the same to you, while you quote Anita Ward. So what about whatever it is you say she said?

Let's just agree that the majority of people that even heard of the "Return to Love" did not want to see it. It could have been only because of high ticket prices as some want to accept to ease their troubled minds over it, LOL!!!!

[marv2]

That's all I need to know. Obviously, whatever loyalty he had for Mary didn't keep him from going to the taping.

Ok then........hehehehehehe......!

[Roberta75]

LOL! He and that sidekick of his are a riot!

LOL. You mean Lady Looky.

[simplysupreme]

LOL. You mean Lady Looky.

LOL! Talk about troubled minds.

[marv2]

Do yourself a favor and stick him on ignore simplysupreme. The way he drones on you would think he was the RTL wardrobe mistress, SFX Negotiator, publicist and spokesperson for both Mary and Diane. LOL


You wished Clucketta. But I do know a lot about what really happened. Unfortunately, I am not sure if the statute of limitations has ran out yet or I would say more......... LOL!!!!!

[luke]

I was paying whatever price the tickets were until I heard Mary and Cindy were out. Then I did not buy tickets. Hmmm-ok I guess Im only one!!lolol

[marv2]

Nona needs to get over it. But she managed to carve out a somewhat successful career, so she does have a leg to stand on, unlike others who shall not be mentioned.

The bottom line is Patti has no business lecturing on how they should tour when she can't even get her three girls together in the same room.

But techinically Patti was right, it should have been Diana, Mary and Cindy on that tour. Wouldn't you agree?

[Roberta75]

LOL! Talk about troubled minds.

And wannabe Supremes. LOL

[simplysupreme]

I was paying whatever price the tickets were until I heard Mary and Cindy were out. Then I did not buy tickets. Hmmm-ok I guess Im only one!!lolol

You're SO comical! hehehehehe

[marv2]

Mary has so much grace and dignity then-almost too much considering all that went down. She told people at BB Kings to stop yelling "Diana who" at Marys show when she brought the house down-and she affimred Flo AND Diana.

I agree. She is a special lady.

[marv2]

I was paying whatever price the tickets were until I heard Mary and Cindy were out. Then I did not buy tickets. Hmmm-ok I guess Im only one!!lolol

I think a lot people felt like that Luke. I also know that a lot of people didn't even go as far as checking ticket prices once they heard who was going to be in the lineup! LOL!!!

[Roberta75]

You're SO comical! hehehehehe

She's the Phyllis Diller of Soulful Detroit that one.

[simplysupreme]

she's the phyllis diller of soulful detroit that one.

lol lol lol

[jobeterob]

Mary's grace and dignity, now that Luke brags on it so............is on display in this interview from 2 minutes to 3 minutes; even many long time Mary fans say she did not come off well here.

It wasn't a happy time for Supremes fans; only the bitter like to rehash it........."bitter", a word we hear Barbara Walters using several times to describe Ms. Wilson.



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gqsvrwosQAk&feature=related

[carlo]

I don't pick sides when it comes to RTL...because I went to see the show myself. BUT, I think to do any Supremes-type show/celebration without Mary and Cindy is naive. It was a great show, but I really don't know what Diana was thinking.

To me, Diana came off as somewhat bitchy in the 20/20 interview. "She's been singing MY songs. I'M THE ONE who's had the solo career for 30 years." Give me a break. lol.

[Roberta75]

I don't pick sides when it comes to RTL...because I went to see the show myself. BUT, I think to do any Supremes-type show/celebration without Mary and Cindy is naive. It was a great show, but I really don't know what Diana was thinking.

To me, Diana came off as somewhat bitchy in the 20/20 interview as well. "She's been singing MY songs. I'M THE ONE who's had the solo career for 30 years." Give me a break. lol.

If you want my opinion Mary came across as bitter during her interview on 20/20 and Diana came across as spoiled and done with Mary on the Barbara Walters interview the next night. Mary and Cindy should have been on the tour but did SFX or Diana pull the plug on them? I have no idea and I don't think anyone does but Mary, Diana and SFX. I have to say I do believe Diana when she said she deliberately stayed out of the negotiation between Mary and SFX. When negotiations broke down Diana should have gone on and did a solo tour. That said I was fortunate enough to see the MSG RTL concert and thought is was a fantastic show with Diana on top of her game.

Both ladies acted badly during this time and both ladies deserve equal amounts of blame. The only one that remained a true lady was Cindy Birdsong and sadly she's the one that could have used the money most but Cindy has God in her life so she's spiritually richer than all former Supremes.

It was a stain on the Supremes legacy during the year 2000 but 11 years later i doubt the average Joe or Jane could tell you what RTL even stands for and more than likely has no idea that there was a Supremes reunion in 2000 that ended badly. it's only a small core group of fans that harp on and on about it and can't seem to move on, which is odd as Mary and Diana have both moved on.

Anyway, this is my very last posting on this tired subject that has been beaten to death.

Moving on.

Roberta

[carlo]

The only one that remained a true lady was Cindy Birdsong and sadly she's the one that could have used the money most but Cindy has God in her life so she's spiritually richer than all former Supremes.

Well said.

[marv2]

Mary's grace and dignity, now that Luke brags on it so............is on display in this interview from 2 minutes to 3 minutes; even many long time Mary fans say she did not come off well here.

It wasn't a happy time for Supremes fans; only the bitter like to rehash it........."bitter", a word we hear Barbara Walters using several times to describe Ms. Wilson.




Nah, you would have to see the whole interview Mary did. I don't believe her interview from "Primtime Live: Downtown" was ever uploaded to Youtube in it's entirety. It was about 35 -40 mins long. It aired on Thurs night that week in April , 2000 and Diane's aired on Friday night. Mary won that war hands down!

When she did the "My Life" speech standing out in front of Hitsville, I knew it was all over for the "Return to Love " tour. Even I was amazed at her "delivery" LOL!!!!

[marv2]

I don't pick sides when it comes to RTL...because I went to see the show myself. BUT, I think to do any Supremes-type show/celebration without Mary and Cindy is naive. It was a great show, but I really don't know what Diana was thinking.

To me, Diana came off as somewhat bitchy in the 20/20 interview. "She's been singing MY songs. I'M THE ONE who's had the solo career for 30 years." Give me a break. lol.


When she said the part about "She's been out there singing MY SONGS....", she cut her own throat live in front of a national television viewing audience! Just 24 hours earlier Mary Wilson stated in her interview that "There is one thing that I've known about Diane every since we were 13 years old and that is she wants everything for herself! She does not like to share......"! I don't remember if I was laughing at that or disgusted by that personal revelation, that what Mary said the night before was true! The other comment that Ross made that completely buried her that not many realized it at the time was......"We could have offered her [[Mary Wilson) the moon , and she still would not be happy" Now that one is the one that really did it! LOL!!!! Thanks Jobeterob for this reminder.

[marv2]

If you want my opinion Mary came across as bitter during her interview on 20/20 and Diana came across as spoiled and done with Mary on the Barbara Walters interview the next night. Mary and Cindy should have been on the tour but did SFX or Diana pull the plug on them? I have no idea and I don't think anyone does but Mary, Diana and SFX. I have to say I do believe Diana when she said she deliberately stayed out of the negotiation between Mary and SFX. When negotiations broke down Diana should have gone on and did a solo tour. That said I was fortunate enough to see the MSG RTL concert and thought is was a fantastic show with Diana on top of her game.

Both ladies acted badly during this time and both ladies deserve equal amounts of blame. The only one that remained a true lady was Cindy Birdsong and sadly she's the one that could have used the money most but Cindy has God in her life so she's spiritually richer than all former Supremes.

It was a stain on the Supremes legacy during the year 2000 but 11 years later i doubt the average Joe or Jane could tell you what RTL even stands for and more than likely has no idea that there was a Supremes reunion in 2000 that ended badly. it's only a small core group of fans that harp on and on about it and can't seem to move on, which is odd as Mary and Diana have both moved on.

Anyway, this is my very last posting on this tired subject that has been beaten to death.

Moving on.

Roberta

Mary was not on "20/20" she was on "Primetime Live: Downtown" where after her interview they held a special online chat with Mary. Didn't you watch the show?

[marv2]

If you want my opinion Mary came across as bitter during her interview on 20/20 and Diana came across as spoiled and done with Mary on the Barbara Walters interview the next night. Mary and Cindy should have been on the tour but did SFX or Diana pull the plug on them? I have no idea and I don't think anyone does but Mary, Diana and SFX. I have to say I do believe Diana when she said she deliberately stayed out of the negotiation between Mary and SFX. When negotiations broke down Diana should have gone on and did a solo tour. That said I was fortunate enough to see the MSG RTL concert and thought is was a fantastic show with Diana on top of her game.

Both ladies acted badly during this time and both ladies deserve equal amounts of blame. The only one that remained a true lady was Cindy Birdsong and sadly she's the one that could have used the money most but Cindy has God in her life so she's spiritually richer than all former Supremes.

It was a stain on the Supremes legacy during the year 2000 but 11 years later i doubt the average Joe or Jane could tell you what RTL even stands for and more than likely has no idea that there was a Supremes reunion in 2000 that ended badly. it's only a small core group of fans that harp on and on about it and can't seem to move on, which is odd as Mary and Diana have both moved on.

Anyway, this is my very last posting on this tired subject that has been beaten to death.

Moving on.

Roberta

That is another thing that made Miss Ross look dishonest here. She said that she had nothing to do with the negotiations, but in the next breathe she says she took their offers and doubled them. Hmmmm.......

[carlo]

Mary was not on "20/20" she was on "Primetime Live: Downtown" where after her interview they held a special online chat with Mary. Didn't you watch the show?

Mary was on 20/20, which was also called Primetime Live: Downtown at that time. They're the same thing I believe.

[jobeterob]

Carlo that was frickin hilarious........."they are the same thing", LOL. I've had the best laugh tonight over that.

I am certain there is complete irony in what you wrote ~ total poetic justice; reducing paragraphs of claptrap to a swift summary.

Thank you.

[marv2]

Mary was on 20/20, which was also called Primetime Live: Downtown at that time. They're the same thing I believe.

Nope. "Primetime Live" was always a separate news magazine program ABC developed to compete with NBC's Dateline. They added the "Downtown" part once the show became so popular that it ran a couple nights during the week. 20/20 with Hugh Downs and Barbara Walters started in the late 70's on ABC and became the networks equivalent of "60 Minutes" on CBS.

[marv2]

Carlo that was frickin hilarious........."they are the same thing", LOL. I've had the best laugh tonight over that.

I am certain there is complete irony in what you wrote ~ total poetic justice; reducing paragraphs of claptrap to a swift summary.

Thank you.

Huh? He just made a little innocent mistake. Don't go crazy! LOL!!! Anyway, the guy that interviewed Mary was Jay Schadler. She took him with her around Detroit during her interview at different locations.

[jillfoster]

The whole problem is that Barbara just gave Diana a platform to pontificate and didn't challenge her in any way. Jay Schadler certainly challenged Mary... "That's not enough?" I thought Mary's only mistake was her answer to that question. She should have worded it differently, and said... "Of course, it's enough... but we have always worked for percentages, and I just want work under the same terms I did before". I don't fathom why why people seem to think that Mary, who used to get 33% of Supremes revenue, should suddenly be a Supreme again and work for 10%. And I've also noticed that when people want to discount someone's anger thye always say they are "bitter" as if it is some big sin to be bitter about something, and if someone is bitter, then they NEVER have the right to be. Well, big, fuckin deal. the word "bitter" is not a get out of jail free card. If someone has a right to their anger, they have a right to it. People were just used to Mary smiling and taking whatever was dished out. Theyv'e never dealt with long fuse passive agressive types. when they blow, you better stand the hell back or get ta steppin! But I'm good with how things turned out, because Diana's public embarrassment and drowning her sorrows in booze are what she deserves for being so damn selfish and not giving the fans, her CUSTOMERS, what they want after making her rich beyond her wildest dreams. And for the record... Sam Moore told her to take the money and shut up because that's what HE would do. Well... if his self-respect is for sale, that's fine, but not everybody is like that. Mary just was tired of being USED.

[marv2]

The whole problem is that Barbara just gave Diana a platform to pontificate and didn't challenge her in any way. Jay Schadler certainly challenged Mary... "That's not enough?" I thought Mary's only mistake was her answer to that question. She should have worded it differently, and said... "Of course, it's enough... but we have always worked for percentages, and I just want work under the same terms I did before". I don't fathom why why people seem to think that Mary, who used to get 33% of Supremes revenue, should suddenly be a Supreme again and work for 10%. And I've also noticed that when people want to discount someone's anger thye always say they are "bitter" as if it is some big sin to be bitter about something, and if someone is bitter, then they NEVER have the right to be. Well, big, fuckin deal. the word "bitter" is not a get out of jail free card. If someone has a right to their anger, they have a right to it. People were just used to Mary smiling and taking whatever was dished out. Theyv'e never dealt with long fuse passive agressive types. when they blow, you better stand the hell back or get ta steppin! But I'm good with how things turned out, because Diana's public embarrassment and drowning her sorrows in booze are what she deserves for being so damn selfish and not giving the fans, her CUSTOMERS, what they want after making her rich beyond her wildest dreams. And for the record... Sam Moore told her to take the money and shut up because that's what HE would do. Well... if his self-respect is for sale, that's fine, but not everybody is like that. Mary just was tired of being USED.]

Excellent points Jill! I may not know a lot about a lot of things, but I do know "Middle America" and I also know that Diana Ross' portion of these dueling interviews did not play well at all with them! Not everyone knows all these details about Motown, the Supremes ,etc as people on the forum know. What they remember is three young black girls from Detroit forming a group and striking it big. Once they became big, one quit the group to go "solo", another one ended up dead on welfare and the other one got pushed aside and became "the forgotten Supreme". So imagine here we are, in the year 2000 and everyone is hearing that the Supremes are planning a big reunion tour and there on your television is Mary, the forgotten Supreme in tears explaining how she is being mistreated. THEN, the next night you have the former lead singer on just smiling and acting carefree and acting like she couldn't possibly understand the problem is with Mary?

I'm telling you, that kind of stuff does not play well with Middle America no matter how hypocritical we can sometimes be as a country overall. The thinking is how can you watch your childhood buddies suffer and just giggle about it all?

[marv2]

The whole problem is that Barbara just gave Diana a platform to pontificate and didn't challenge her in any way. Jay Schadler certainly challenged Mary... "That's not enough?" I thought Mary's only mistake was her answer to that question. She should have worded it differently, and said... "Of course, it's enough... but we have always worked for percentages, and I just want work under the same terms I did before". I don't fathom why why people seem to think that Mary, who used to get 33% of Supremes revenue, should suddenly be a Supreme again and work for 10%. And I've also noticed that when people want to discount someone's anger thye always say they are "bitter" as if it is some big sin to be bitter about something, and if someone is bitter, then they NEVER have the right to be. Well, big, fuckin deal. the word "bitter" is not a get out of jail free card. If someone has a right to their anger, they have a right to it. People were just used to Mary smiling and taking whatever was dished out. Theyv'e never dealt with long fuse passive agressive types. when they blow, you better stand the hell back or get ta steppin! But I'm good with how things turned out, because Diana's public embarrassment and drowning her sorrows in booze are what she deserves for being so damn selfish and not giving the fans, her CUSTOMERS, what they want after making her rich beyond her wildest dreams. And for the record... Sam Moore told her to take the money and shut up because that's what HE would do. Well... if his self-respect is for sale, that's fine, but not everybody is like that. Mary just was tired of being USED.

The one part that was a little tough was when Barbara Walters practically begging Diana Ross to say something, anything that would make it possible for she and Mary Wilson to work together again on stage and Diana's response was basically she couldn't think of anything at all! She went on to fess up without realizing it and by that I mean that the whole negotiation thing with Mary and Cindy was a farce because she never had any intention of taking them on that tour with her from the beginning. She even stated in the interview that I don't think I want to be onstage with Mary Wilson again. Well if that was how she felt, why go through all those machinations to lead the public and Mary and Cindy into believing that she was sincere in putting together a reunion tour with them?

[Rosie]

The whole problem is that Barbara just gave Diana a platform to pontificate and didn't challenge her in any way. Jay Schadler certainly challenged Mary... "That's not enough?" I thought Mary's only mistake was her answer to that question. She should have worded it differently, and said... "Of course, it's enough... but we have always worked for percentages, and I just want work under the same terms I did before". I don't fathom why why people seem to think that Mary, who used to get 33% of Supremes revenue, should suddenly be a Supreme again and work for 10%. And I've also noticed that when people want to discount someone's anger thye always say they are "bitter" as if it is some big sin to be bitter about something, and if someone is bitter, then they NEVER have the right to be. Well, big, fuckin deal. the word "bitter" is not a get out of jail free card. If someone has a right to their anger, they have a right to it. People were just used to Mary smiling and taking whatever was dished out. Theyv'e never dealt with long fuse passive agressive types. when they blow, you better stand the hell back or get ta steppin! But I'm good with how things turned out, because Diana's public embarrassment and drowning her sorrows in booze are what she deserves for being so damn selfish and not giving the fans, her CUSTOMERS, what they want after making her rich beyond her wildest dreams. And for the record... Sam Moore told her to take the money and shut up because that's what HE would do. Well... if his self-respect is for sale, that's fine, but not everybody is like that. Mary just was tired of being USED.
The truth is the truth! You can only be discounted for so long! Its not a good feeling, nor is it healthy to continue to allow it to happen. When you know better you do better.

[luke]

Mary came across as very bright and assertive. I remember thinking what a great answer-about deserving a third as a founding member. People are no fools. Diana IMO came across as condescending and illogical. And I never understood how she looked that night. I swear she looked like a prison inmate in that orange outfit, seemingly no make up. Didnt get it. The whole thing made no sense-Mary accepted final offer and was told train had left station. Doesnt that sum it up? Diana was playing games. Even Diana devotee JRT said in his book all Diana had to do was sit down and treat Mary to a nice lunch and their would have been a reunion!! Once she saw she couldnt run the show it was over. Thankfully there was no reunion. Can you imagine Mary and Cindy following behind her at GCT? Sitting in audience on Oprah? Singing 3000 feet away from her in concert? Ugh.

[skooldem1]

Mary Wilson came off very bad. She looked crazy at one point. She seemed so bitter. She came across as someone still jealous of the lead singer of her group-damn near 40 years after the fact. Diana remained professional and at times confused by all of this. She stood her ground and took the higher road. I find it odd that Diana Ross has been at the receiving end of viscious rumors and inuendo for many years. The ONE time she tried to defend her name, she gets called out on it. That makes no sense at all. She spoke up, and some Supreme and Mary Wilson fans couldn't take it. Cause we all know that its not that Mary knows so much dirt on people [[Diana), it's that DIANA knows the dirt also and came very close to spilling it all. Just that one little tidbit about "Mary seems to have forgotten that I've helped her..." let you know right there that IF she wanted to get real about and put Mary on blast that she could have. She hinted at it- but remained classy about it. I don't think Diana did anything [[during that interview) but defend herself. She didn't come across as catty. The public wasn't aware at the time that Mary not being on this tour was MARY'S fault. Knowing their history, I can totally see why it was up to each lady to do her own bidding. Everyone keeps saying fair is fair and that it should have been divided equally. Thats bull crap. They were not being paid a "salary" by Berry Gordy, or Motown. This is the real world. Mary was playing with the big boys and failed. That is her fault that she coudn't negotiate and agree to terms that would have made her happy. Diana wasn't receiving, as we all know, a lump sum of money to do this tour. She was going to get percentages. That is the contract SHE negotiated. Mary should have tried to do the same thing. No matter how some will try to spin this, it was up to Mary and Cindy as grown professional women to negotiate and try to get what they wanted. It turns out that that what they really wanted was DIANA to do something for them. NOT. In the end many supreme fans feel Diana should have done this and should have done that. I say forget that. She doesn't need to take care of Mary and Cindy's business. Back to that interview. I was so glad Diana finally spoke her mind. She remained classy, while Mary still looked like someone who doesn't have a clue.

[carlo]

Nope. "Primetime Live" was always a separate news magazine program ABC developed to compete with NBC's Dateline. They added the "Downtown" part once the show became so popular that it ran a couple nights during the week. 20/20 with Hugh Downs and Barbara Walters started in the late 70's on ABC and became the networks equivalent of "60 Minutes" on CBS.

"For a time from 1998–2000, ABC News combined 20/20 and Primetime Live to compete with Dateline NBC. The editions were called 20/20 Monday, 20/20 Wednesday, 20/20 Thursday, 20/20 Friday, 20/20 Sunday, and finally 20/20 Downtown. In 2000 ABC News returned the news magazines to the original 20/20, reinstating Primetime Thursday, and spinning off 20/20 Downtown as simply Downtown. By early 2002, the show was airing again in only its original Friday timeslot."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/20/20_%28U.S._television_series%29

[carlo]

The one part that was a little tough was when Barbara Walters practically begging Diana Ross to say something, anything that would make it possible for she and Mary Wilson to work together again on stage and Diana's response was basically she couldn't think of anything at all! She went on to fess up without realizing it and by that I mean that the whole negotiation thing with Mary and Cindy was a farce because she never had any intention of taking them on that tour with her from the beginning. She even stated in the interview that I don't think I want to be onstage with Mary Wilson again. Well if that was how she felt, why go through all those machinations to lead the public and Mary and Cindy into believing that she was sincere in putting together a reunion tour with them?

Exactly. If Diana really wanted to tour with Mary and Cindy, she could have made it happen and she would have not accepted no as an option. At the end of the day, she could have said, "I tried. Maybe next time. I will just go out and do a solo tour instead." The fact that she went out to tour with Scherrie and Lynda proved that she saw Mary and Cindy as disposable. Basically an attitude of, "I don't need either of you. I can make a Supremes tour work on my own."

[jobeterob]

And in the end..........that's how it has turned out............Diana doesn't need any Supremes and likely won't ever stand on a stage with any of them.

Mary carried on, changed up her shows, and does what she does.

The FLOS carried on with their shows and do their own thing.

Barbara has made a comment or two; Flo watches down perhaps.........

And they've all pretty much lived happily ever after, no ones throwing water, no ones beating up cadets, everyone's voice is holding up better than Adele's and Whitney's and Dionne's and Aretha's; we've had no ends or trips likes Michael's and Whitney's.

Supremes fans have much to be thankful for?

Or still unhappy???

And Carlo, you too, were very funny; I loved you for that.

[luke]

This is certainly where Berry came in in the past for her. This was a PR disaster for her. When she had behaved this way he would-I assume-fix it or prevent it or cover it up). A lot of stuff didnt make the papers then[[screaming at airport about her dog, Latin Casino behavior, slapping people...) Now everything does. JRT's book said there were people warning her to not go ahead with tour sensing the disaster that was coming.

[carlo]

Yes, it's true that we have much to be thankful for.

I wasn't trying to be funny. lol.

[jeff9nyc]

Yes, Bob... Diana stole dresses from Martha and them as well. More than once. the yellow they wear signing The Happening are just one such set.

That is such a silly thing to write Jill. Why would you make up stuff like that? Show me the shot of Martha wearing those gowns? The Supremes were so famous at that point. The time that was written about with the "dress stealing" was back in '62 or so before the hits when they were all on tour together.

[skooldem1]

Much to the dismay of some, Diana's career flourished after that tour. Many honors were in store, her previous work being re-released, a new studio album that was her highest charted album in 20 years, sold out shows across the globe. High profile TV appearances. No need for her to look back. That's for fans stuck in a time warp. She should just keep it moving and do what makes her happy until she retires. If she decides she wants to share her stage with Mary and Cindy that's up to her. However, it is so not necessary.

[motownlover1964]

I find it interesting that in the past Diana said that she doesn't look back; is always moving forward but try as hard as she might she has never escaped the long shadow that was The Supremes. I always hated it when she would do her Supremes-medley in concert as a toss-off. But now she is doing those songs in full versions these days. But, I agree with you skooldem1 that she flourished and all the bad press from 10-12 years ago no longer holds up. She's touring, getting rave reviews and seems quite happy.

To be honest 11 years ago I wanted the reunion but now after seeing Diana solo many times and Mary solo many times I no longer care if they ever stand together again. They both have gifts to share with those who love them.

It's time to put the RTL-tour to rest.

[marv2]

Mary came across as very bright and assertive. I remember thinking what a great answer-about deserving a third as a founding member. People are no fools. Diana IMO came across as condescending and illogical. And I never understood how she looked that night. I swear she looked like a prison inmate in that orange outfit, seemingly no make up. Didnt get it. The whole thing made no sense-Mary accepted final offer and was told train had left station. Doesnt that sum it up? Diana was playing games. Even Diana devotee JRT said in his book all Diana had to do was sit down and treat Mary to a nice lunch and their would have been a reunion!! Once she saw she couldnt run the show it was over. Thankfully there was no reunion. Can you imagine Mary and Cindy following behind her at GCT? Sitting in audience on Oprah? Singing 3000 feet away from her in concert? Ugh.

Man, if it was going to be like that, it would have never worked! First of all, Mary Wilson had been solo with her own show for over 20 years by that point. Next, if Diana Ross is suppose be a multimillionaire with 100's of millions of dollars, then why is it that she had to have such a great amount more than either Mary or Cindy to do the tour? I think they offered Cindy something like $ 500,000 originally. What was up with that? Did Diana need that much money? She had not been hitting any gold bricks herself for years by that point in terms of record sales, movies ,etc.

As far as how she looked? She looked like she had been drinking.

[skooldem1]

I remember around this time, on the Tom Joyner Morning show, they were all joking on Mary. Tom said "Diana.....PLEASE call her". As if to say, please talk to this woman because she is getting on not only your nerves, but everyones nerves. So just call her. LMAO. His whole crew started laughing.

[marv2]

Mary Wilson came off very bad. She looked crazy at one point. She seemed so bitter. She came across as someone still jealous of the lead singer of her group-damn near 40 years after the fact. Diana remained professional and at times confused by all of this. She stood her ground and took the higher road. I find it odd that Diana Ross has been at the receiving end of viscious rumors and inuendo for many years. The ONE time she tried to defend her name, she gets called out on it. That makes no sense at all. She spoke up, and some Supreme and Mary Wilson fans couldn't take it. Cause we all know that its not that Mary knows so much dirt on people [[Diana), it's that DIANA knows the dirt also and came very close to spilling it all. Just that one little tidbit about "Mary seems to have forgotten that I've helped her..." let you know right there that IF she wanted to get real about and put Mary on blast that she could have. She hinted at it- but remained classy about it. I don't think Diana did anything [[during that interview) but defend herself. She didn't come across as catty. The public wasn't aware at the time that Mary not being on this tour was MARY'S fault. Knowing their history, I can totally see why it was up to each lady to do her own bidding. Everyone keeps saying fair is fair and that it should have been divided equally. Thats bull crap. They were not being paid a "salary" by Berry Gordy, or Motown. This is the real world. Mary was playing with the big boys and failed. That is her fault that she coudn't negotiate and agree to terms that would have made her happy. Diana wasn't receiving, as we all know, a lump sum of money to do this tour. She was going to get percentages. That is the contract SHE negotiated. Mary should have tried to do the same thing. No matter how some will try to spin this, it was up to Mary and Cindy as grown professional women to negotiate and try to get what they wanted. It turns out that that what they really wanted was DIANA to do something for them. NOT. In the end many supreme fans feel Diana should have done this and should have done that. I say forget that. She doesn't need to take care of Mary and Cindy's business. Back to that interview. I was so glad Diana finally spoke her mind. She remained classy, while Mary still looked like someone who doesn't have a clue.

Oh I loved that part when Ross says " I have contributed to her life, maybe she has forgotten that...." HA! It was a $30,000 LOAN that Mary wrote about 10 years earlier in her book "Supreme Faith". It was a loan that Mary paid back within a year with interest! How about how Mary and Florence and just about everyone else at Motown contributing to her life! She would not have been nothing if she was not in the group called the Supremes. No one was looking for skinny bug-eyed , whiny voiced singer to make a star! She need to get real.

As time went on, I am sure Mary and Cindy realized that the dumb promoters had given Diane full reign over the entertainment budget or rather over the money that would be paid to the artists. That's why she said that all Mary had to do was just show up! She's crazy! No one is going to accept terms like that, least of all Mary Wilson, an original Supreme.

[skooldem1]

You don't know how many times sister Diane helped Mary out. You only know about the one time Mary admitted to. I'd also have to say that you don't know what the terms/amount/and payback plan were. All you and I both know is Diana helped Mary out in her time of need. She came to Diana for help.

[marv2]

"For a time from 1998–2000, ABC News combined 20/20 and Primetime Live to compete with Dateline NBC. The editions were called 20/20 Monday, 20/20 Wednesday, 20/20 Thursday, 20/20 Friday, 20/20 Sunday, and finally 20/20 Downtown. In 2000 ABC News returned the news magazines to the original 20/20, reinstating Primetime Thursday, and spinning off 20/20 Downtown as simply Downtown. By early 2002, the show was airing again in only its original Friday timeslot."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/20/20_%28U.S._television_series%29

Exactly. In 2000 when they did the interview with Mary, it was again "Primetime Live" I watched it here in New York where they produced the show.

[marv2]

Exactly. If Diana really wanted to tour with Mary and Cindy, she could have made it happen and she would have not accepted no as an option. At the end of the day, she could have said, "I tried. Maybe next time. I will just go out and do a solo tour instead." The fact that she went out to tour with Scherrie and Lynda proved that she saw Mary and Cindy as disposable. Basically an attitude of, "I don't need either of you. I can make a Supremes tour work on my own."

"and all the people said? NO WAY DIANA!" LOL!!!

[marv2]

And in the end..........that's how it has turned out............Diana doesn't need any Supremes and likely won't ever stand on a stage with any of them.

Mary carried on, changed up her shows, and does what she does.

The FLOS carried on with their shows and do their own thing.

Barbara has made a comment or two; Flo watches down perhaps.........

And they've all pretty much lived happily ever after, no ones throwing water, no ones beating up cadets, everyone's voice is holding up better than Adele's and Whitney's and Dionne's and Aretha's; we've had no ends or trips likes Michael's and Whitney's.

Supremes fans have much to be thankful for?

Or still unhappy???

And Carlo, you too, were very funny; I loved you for that.

Well if she never stands on stage with any of them, Mary Wilson and Cindy Birdsong in particular while she still has the chance, then she can forget ever seeing the big bucks and the national attention again until she dies. That's the facts.

[marv2]

I find it interesting that in the past Diana said that she doesn't look back; is always moving forward but try as hard as she might she has never escaped the long shadow that was The Supremes. I always hated it when she would do her Supremes-medley in concert as a toss-off. But now she is doing those songs in full versions these days. But, I agree with you skooldem1 that she flourished and all the bad press from 10-12 years ago no longer holds up. She's touring, getting rave reviews and seems quite happy.

To be honest 11 years ago I wanted the reunion but now after seeing Diana solo many times and Mary solo many times I no longer care if they ever stand together again. They both have gifts to share with those who love them.

It's time to put the RTL-tour to rest.

I don't care so much about a reunion for myself personally. I would like them to reunite for many other people that want it. Also, if it is not done right like RTL, I would never want Mary or Cindy to reunite with her.

[marv2]

Much to the dismay of some, Diana's career flourished after that tour. Many honors were in store, her previous work being re-released, a new studio album that was her highest charted album in 20 years, sold out shows across the globe. High profile TV appearances. No need for her to look back. That's for fans stuck in a time warp. She should just keep it moving and do what makes her happy until she retires. If she decides she wants to share her stage with Mary and Cindy that's up to her. However, it is so not necessary.

Didn't she have a nervous breakdown or something after that tour was cancelled? I know she was having a drug and alcohol problem which led to stints in rehab. Later on she went back to touring solo.

[skooldem1]

Well if she never stands on stage with any of them, Mary Wilson and Cindy Birdsong in particular while she still has the chance, then she can forget ever seeing the big bucks and the national attention again until she dies. That's the facts.

You have got to be kidding right? You switched the names. You have it backwords. If Mary ever wants to make the big bucks and not be a special guest on someone elses show, or tour as part of a golden oldie motortown review with 15 other acts on the bill, or performing to a crowd of 150 people, she better start acting right. Otherwise she will never again have national attention- unless of course she talks about Diane. LoL.

[skooldem1]

Didn't she have a nervous breakdown or something after that tour was cancelled? I know she was having a drug and alcohol problem which led to stints in rehab. Later on she went back to touring solo.

Yes she did. Thank God she didnt accidently kill anyone.

[marv2]

You don't know how many times sister Diane helped Mary out. You only know about the one time Mary admitted to. I'd also have to say that you don't know what the terms/amount/and payback plan were. All you and I both know is Diana helped Mary out in her time of need. She came to Diana for help.

You don't either and t he ONLY reason we know about that one time back in 1981 is because Mary wrote about it in her book! I don't know what the terms were and it is none of my business. I do know that it was not a gift! It was a loan that Mary paid back with interest within a year. How much interest she paid on the $30,000 I don't know. I know that Diane never disputed that which was in Mary's book and also did not characterize it as that during the Barbara Walters interview. How come?

[marv2]

Yes she did. Thank God she didnt accidently kill anyone.

You know, you see this what I have been saying . You are making an under the table jab or joke about the death of child. Mary Wilson's child that died in the accident. This is why I have no respect for many hardcored Diana Ross fans. It is like Smark said. Almost exactly like how he describe.

[skooldem1]

You know, you see this what I have been saying . You are making an under the table jab or joke about the death of child. Mary Wilson's child that died in the accident. This is why I have no respect for many hardcored Diana Ross fans. It is like Smark said. Almost exactly like how he describe.

Dude you are projecting. I was commenting on Diana's "breakdown" and stint in rehab for drunk driving. Hence my comment, "thank God she didn't accidently kill anyone".

[jobeterob]

I take it we still have ONE unhappy Supremes fan.

And the rest are basically all fine.

[marv2]

Dude you are projecting. I was commenting on Diana's "breakdown" and stint in rehab for drunk driving. Hence my comment, "thank God she didn't accidently kill anyone".

No I am telling the truth because I have seen this before where some of Diana Ross fans in defense of her and when they run out of responses they somtimes make jokes about the accident that Mary Wilson had in which her son was killed. It's more than crossing the line. You know what you wrote and I know what you meant. Do you find the accidental death of a child funny or smirk worthy?

[marv2]

I remember around this time, on the Tom Joyner Morning show, they were all joking on Mary. Tom said "Diana.....PLEASE call her". As if to say, please talk to this woman because she is getting on not only your nerves, but everyones nerves. So just call her. LMAO. His whole crew started laughing.

Yeah well the morning Howard Stern had Mary on he joked just as much if not more about Diana.

[marv2]

I take it we still have ONE unhappy Supremes fan.

And the rest are basically all fine.

I don't why Skool Dem is so unhappy. It is only the facts. No one is lying as far as I've seen or know.

[floyjoy678]

It reminds me of time when a close friend/co-worker of mine went to everyone on the job and blasted me after I got a promotion and he didn't, even though I worked twice as hard and did things even when I wasn't up for it while every now and then I would lie to the bosses and give him "credit" just because I felt bad. You think I wanted to work/see him again after he said bad and vicious things about me to practically everyone in our office? It's embarrassing [[Thankfully he was fired shortly after). I love all the Supremes but 10 years later I've jumped from Mary's side to Diana's side in the RTL situation.

[skooldem1]

Like I said I was responding to your question/comment regarding alcohol, drug abuse and rehab. I reject what you say because I know what I was responding to and what I meant.

[skooldem1]

I don't why Skool Dem is so unhappy. It is only the facts. No is lying as far as I've seen or know.

Oh come on Marv. I am as happy as can be. Its Friday, just got paid, getting my car out of the shop. Nothing to be unhappy about. Why are you so unhappy and why do you refuse to move past the year 2000? Serious question.

[skooldem1]

Marv- another serious question. You don't think this going back and forth between us is childish? Sometimes I do it to make a point [[in general, not just with you). At any point during these debates, does it ever occur to you that your comments bordline on the insane also?

[jobeterob]

What does "no is lying mean?"

Did a word get missed in exasperation?

Who is lying? That word is about laying down. Was it meant to be "lieing" as in tale telling?

[marv2]

What does "no is lying mean?"

Did a word get missed in exasperation?

Who is lying? That word is about laying down. Was it meant to be "lieing" as in tale telling?

I meant to write "No one is lying as far as I've seen or know."


No need for you to go through the weekend in a strain. hehehehehehe!

[thaperson]

The loan story was in SUPREME FAITH because Mary had gotten a ton of crticism for not putting it in DREAMGIRL. The original co-writer of DREAMGIRL even quit the project because Mary wouldn't put the loan story in.

Now I didn't agree with the way Diana handled the tour, but for Mary to call Lynda and Scherrie fake Supremes was disgraceful. You can be mad at them for what they did, but they were Supremes just as much as Barbara, Flo, Jean and the rest of them. And no, those were not solely Diana's songs. But what part does Mary have in the ones the Andates sang back-up on? Why should she get to claim them? She contributed nothing to them. They're not hers.

Let's get real. Five million for someone who didn't sing on half the hits and whose career was barren for almost fifteen years at that point? It was never going to happen. Mary should have stepped back and seriously thought about it. The gig would have gotten tons of publicity and jumpstarted her career had she taken it. But she went the obligatory route. Caused a brief media blitz for a month or two, only to have it all fade way. And what did she gain? As Taraborelli said, she is foolish when it comes to business decisions.

[jobeterob]

She could have paid off the mortgage on the house she and her daughter live in too.

[luke]

Marv you keep telling the truth about the death of Mary's son-it's disgusting what some Ross fans say. Show me where Mary ever called SP and LL fake supremes--quote it, document it-she NEVER said that. Marys first book went up to 1970. She put it chronologically in her second book where it belonged. And Im sure there is much more to that person quitting -it makes no sense as the loan happened way after 1970. If all the haters can dig up is drama over a 30, 000 loan paid back WITH interest they are quite desperate. If these people ever objectively mentioned some of Diana's behavior along with criticisms of Mary, they would seem more sane. Just why couldnt Diana step back a bit and think - gee maybe Mary does deserve more and I can imagine she might feel devalued and I could really help Cindy out here...but no --more ego.

[dianesfan_1965]

RTL was in some people's minds was bigger than "the holacust" or "7-11".

[simplysupreme]

If these people ever objectively mentioned some of Diana's behavior along with criticisms of Mary, they would seem more sane.

Vice versa. The same applies to you.

[captainjames]

I think Patti says and does certain things for publicity ~~ Diana and Patti are not the BEST of friends but at least are civil to one another.

If the tour was as sucessful as most think I believe we would have seen and heard more from Nona, Sarah and Patti. At least another single or CD or TV appearance. It seemed to just fizzle out. I would love to see the final number of sells from that CD or concert shows.

Perhaps, Sarah and Nona had a Flashback of that final concert in Cincinnati and decided they really didn't want to do this again.

On the RTL merry-go-round-- the only thing I remember about that was Mary was constanly saying it wasn't about money and that is all I am hearing now is that it was about Money, even from Mary. Diana Ross was a Supreme but she also became Diana Ross the Superstar. Mary Wilson and Cindy Birdsong were Supremes.

Finally, if Mary Wilson thought she could get a smaller interest rate from the bank than from Diana then she should have went to the Bank. True be known she knew the best deal was through Diana.

[marv2]

Marv you keep telling the truth about the death of Mary's son-it's disgusting what some Ross fans say. Show me where Mary ever called SP and LL fake supremes--quote it, document it-she NEVER said that. Marys first book was in 1970. She put it chronologically in her second book where it belonged. And Im sure there is much more to that person quitting -it makes no sense as the loan happened way after 1970. If all the haters can dig up is drama over a 30, 000 loan paid back WITH interest they are quite desperate. If these people ever objectively mentioned some of Diana's behavior along with criticisms of Mary, they would seem more sane. Just why couldnt Diana step back a bit and think - gee maybe Mary does deserve more and I can imagine she might feel devalued and I could really help Cindy out here...but no --more ego.

That they would [[joke about the death of a child) is because they are twisted and warped. In one thread they went crazy over Patti sprinkling water on a woman and her child and asking me where is my "moral compass?" I now say git the f^$k outta here!

You are right and Thaperson doesn't know what he is talking about. You are right, Mary's first book ended in 1970 with the prologue being Florence's funeral in 1976. That little loan did not occur until 1981 which shows you how desparate they are grasping for straw's . Mary's original co-writer whatever, who's name I cannot remember right now missed out on the opportunity of a life time. To be involved in the greatest selling music related autobiography in history! Diana Ross has never cared about the others in the group. She told a big lie about something that I wished I could get into here, but I just can't.
This stuff Thaperson is saying is plain crazy. Mary has sung on more than have the Supremes hits. Try 90% . She was never offered $ 5 million and her career was no more"barren" in the 15 years prior to RTL than Diana Ross' who had not scored a chart hit during those 15 years which is the main reason she had to run back to the Supremes Legacy which Mary Wilson had been nurturing and keeping in the public conscious all those years! No one was buying or interested in "Diana Ross solo artist" by 2000. It had to been a crushing blow to her ego and pocketbook when the public voted her off the island for showing up without Mary and Cindy!

[marv2]

This is certainly where Berry came in in the past for her. This was a PR disaster for her. When she had behaved this way he would-I assume-fix it or prevent it or cover it up). A lot of stuff didnt make the papers then[[screaming at airport about her dog, Latin Casino behavior, slapping people...) Now everything does. JRT's book said there were people warning her to not go ahead with tour sensing the disaster that was coming.


Berry Gordy did everything for her. He deserves 85% of the credit for her career. As we all know now, once she left Berry and Motown, it became much harder for her to get a hit and things slowly dried up to point of where it's been for the last 10-15 years. She really didn't make out much better than Mary Wells in terms of career success after Motown. She did get more money.

[marv2]

RTL was in some people's minds was bigger than "the holacust" or "7-11".

You get on down dianesfan, with your bad self! Have one on me too! It is Friday afterall LOL!!!!

[jillfoster]

"For a time from 1998–2000, ABC News combined 20/20 and Primetime Live to compete with Dateline NBC. The editions were called 20/20 Monday, 20/20 Wednesday, 20/20 Thursday, 20/20 Friday, 20/20 Sunday, and finally 20/20 Downtown. In 2000 ABC News returned the news magazines to the original 20/20, reinstating Primetime Thursday, and spinning off 20/20 Downtown as simply Downtown. By early 2002, the show was airing again in only its original Friday timeslot."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/20/20_%28U.S._television_series%29


Well hells bells, no wonder you guys were confused as to what the show was called! Talk about convoluted!

[jillfoster]

RTL was in some people's minds was bigger than "the holacust" or "7-11".

Now listen here! ain't nothin bigger than 7-11!!!!! you'll pry that slurpee out of my cold dead hands!

[luke]

Whats 7-11??

[marv2]

Whats 7-11??



I think he meant, 9-11.......hehehehehehehe!

[marv2]

Well hells bells, no wonder you guys were confused as to what the show was called! Talk about convoluted!

Jill when I play the videotape it says "Primetime Live:Downtown".

[carlo]

It had to been a crushing blow to her ego and pocketbook when the public voted her off the island for showing up without Mary and Cindy!

LOL!! I like the way you described that. They voted her off the island! lol!

[carlo]

I still remember when Mary appeared on 20/20 or Downtown whatever and my Mom woke me up from bed to watch it. It was so exciting. I was in Grade 5 at the time. I still have that interview on tape. I thought she represented herself very well. When Diana appeared the next day, I was expecting to hear a lot more from her. I remember feeling underwhelmed because she didn't seem to answer anything. I love Diana, but her interview was basically, "I'm gonna sit here and flip back my hair every 5 seconds". :)

I love Diana and Mary and I think they're both too fabulous to ever reunite as The Supremes. They're both divas of the stage...solo artists in their own right, so to expect either one of them to go back to working in a group setting would be far too difficult IMO. I would like to see it happen, but it's very unlikely. It would be cool if they were to both accept an award together.

[thaperson]

I am not linking anything. It's well known that Wilson dissed both of them as not being "the real Supremes", even going as far as to call it betrayal because "she hired them". Once again, playing the martyr.

Did she stop and think that perhaps Scherrie and Lynda had fallen on hard times and needed the money? That perhaps they needed to take the gig that she personally rejected? She could have expressed dissapointment but ultimately wished them well. Nope. All that matters was that Mary was hurt. And getting that camera time by blasting Diana in the media and working her sob story. Yeah Mary got her way but she also helped to put those two other women out of work. But Mary's always the only victim in any situation.

I've been objective towards Ross here many times. You can read the posts on Motown 25 and others. I've yet to see a self proclaimed Wilson fan look at Mary objectively. And you can quote me on that. You can criticize people who say that Ross is still a star in every way. That's fine. But if you're going to say that Mary playing a hotel lounge for about hundred people is somehow a smashing success, then I'm going to call you out on your insanity.

If Berry is responsible for 85% of Diana's career, then Berry and Diana are responsible for all of Mary's. Because outside of them, she has had ZERO success.

[carlo]

I think the real victim of this entire RTL thang is Shantel Baker. She was not even contacted to participate in the tour.

[marv2]

I think the real victim of this entire RTL thang is Shantel Baker. She was not even contacted to participate in the tour.

Oh the cruelty of it all! You mean they did not even consider asking the Diva Supreme herself? Ms. Shantel Baker? The nerve! It was doomed to fail from the onset.............

[Rosie]

That they would [[joke about the death of a child) is because they are twisted and warped. In one thread they went crazy over Patti sprinkling water on a woman and her child and asking me where is my "moral compass?" I now say git the f^$k outta here!

You are right and Thaperson doesn't know what he is talking about. You are right, Mary's first book ended in 1970 with the prologue being Florence's funeral in 1976. That little loan did not occur until 1981 which shows you how desparate they are grasping for straw's . Mary's original co-writer whatever, who's name I cannot remember right now missed out on the opportunity of a life time. To be involved in the greatest selling music related autobiography in history! Diana Ross has never cared about the others in the group. She told a big lie about something that I wished I could get into here, but I just can't.
This stuff Thaperson is saying is plain crazy. Mary has sung on more than have the Supremes hits. Try 90% . She was never offered $ 5 million and her career was no more"barren" in the 15 years prior to RTL than Diana Ross' who had not scored a chart hit during those 15 years which is the main reason she had to run back to the Supremes Legacy which Mary Wilson had been nurturing and keeping in the public conscious all those years! No one was buying or interested in "Diana Ross solo artist" by 2000. It had to been a crushing blow to her ego and pocketbook when the public voted her off the island for showing up without Mary and Cindy!

Marv2 you are on F-I-R-E!

[marv2]

I am not linking anything. It's well known that Wilson dissed both of them as not being "the real Supremes", even going as far as to call it betrayal because "she hired them". Once again, playing the martyr.



You do what you gotta do to get the job done! hehehehehehe.......!

No, Mary does not play hotel lounge acts

Berry is responsible for 85% of Diana's career and success

At least she never called Scherrie or Linda scabs, Sub-premes or anything

Mary did not put anybody out of work, they were not suppose to a part of a tour called "Diana Ross & the Supremes" to begin with. What about us? The public? Why were we suppose to spend our hard earned money on something we did not ask for or wanted to see? Huh? Oh yeah, there were a lot more "victims" as you call it than just Mary in the whole nasty situation. Cindy didn't get anything from it either.

[marv2]

Marv2 you are on F-I-R-E!

Thank you Rosie! I am going to have a cold beer now in hopes of cooling down a bit LOL!

[smark21]

Well, I must have woken from quite a nap. I dreamed 11 years of life, but what do you know, it's still year 2000 Y2K. An election year. Who do you think Al Gore should pick for his running mate? Joe Lieberman or Bill Bradley?

[simplysupreme]

I am not linking anything. It's well known that Wilson dissed both of them as not being "the real Supremes", even going as far as to call it betrayal because "she hired them". Once again, playing the martyr.

Did she stop and think that perhaps Scherrie and Lynda had fallen on hard times and needed the money? That perhaps they needed to take the gig that she personally rejected? She could have expressed dissapointment but ultimately wished them well. Nope. All that matters was that Mary was hurt. And getting that camera time by blasting Diana in the media and working her sob story. Yeah Mary got her way but she also helped to put those two other women out of work. But Mary's always the only victim in any situation.

I've been objective towards Ross here many times. You can read the posts on Motown 25 and others. I've yet to see a self proclaimed Wilson fan look at Mary objectively. And you can quote me on that. You can criticize people who say that Ross is still a star in every way. That's fine. But if you're going to say that Mary playing a hotel lounge for about hundred people is somehow a smashing success, then I'm going to call you out on your insanity.

If Berry is responsible for 85% of Diana's career, then Berry and Diana are responsible for all of Mary's. Because outside of them, she has had ZERO success.

Now, YOU are on F-I-R-E!

[heikki]

Hi!

An interesting PATTI LABELLE thread!

[144man]

Hi!

An interesting PATTI LABELLE thread!

It was always going to end up that way.

[jobeterob]

Now now, in the realm of music importance, what could possibly top the Supremes, especially Diana?

Only Patti if she's gonna beat the shit out of you or your child.

[smark21]

Now now, in the realm of music importance, what could possibly top the Supremes, especially Diana?

Only Patti if she's gonna beat the shit out of you or your child.

Music isn't really the focus of this thread, drama is.

[jobeterob]

Ah, you're right of course...........and then again, in drama, Labelle and Patti are no competition for the Supremes and Diana......

But if Patti were gonna have us beaten, would we run or fight? Diana & Mary would fight. I think I'd run........I'm a decent runner.

[BobC]

So how do Supremes fans in general think of Labelle, the group? I'm curious.

[smark21]

So how do Supremes fans in general think of Labelle, the group? I'm curious.

A few years ago a friend of mine burned me a few of Labelles albums. I played them a few times, though I really didn't take to the music. LaBelle's music, overall, had more edge and intensity and bite than The Supremes [[any incarnation). LaBelle was more rock and more soul than The supremes. But they were not as entertaining, for me, and while the ladies can sing hard, it's not my preferred style of singing. I respect where LaBelle was coming from with their music, but not to my taste.

[BobC]

Fair enough, Smark.I know there was a rivalry between the groups--and the whole Cindy Birdsong thing probably intensified it. The Supremes were before my time, but Labelle wasn't and they seemed really cool to me as a kid [[along with Parliament/Funkadelic) when I saw them on Don Kirshner's Rock Concert. Over time I bought the Supreme's "High Energy" and "MSS" and thought they were great albums, although not as edgy as Labelle, which is okay of course. I thought those two records were really cool but liked the funk tracks like "Sweet Dream Machine" and "Come Into My Life" better than the disco stuff like "Love I Never Knew."

[carlo]

So how do Supremes fans in general think of Labelle, the group? I'm curious.

I loved Labelle...until Patti did what she did...it will take time for me to get over that one...

[captainjames]

I applaud you for this ~~
Took the words right out of my mouth.


I am not linking anything. It's well known that Wilson dissed both of them as not being "the real Supremes", even going as far as to call it betrayal because "she hired them". Once again, playing the martyr.

Did she stop and think that perhaps Scherrie and Lynda had fallen on hard times and needed the money? That perhaps they needed to take the gig that she personally rejected? She could have expressed dissapointment but ultimately wished them well. Nope. All that matters was that Mary was hurt. And getting that camera time by blasting Diana in the media and working her sob story. Yeah Mary got her way but she also helped to put those two other women out of work. But Mary's always the only victim in any situation.

I've been objective towards Ross here many times. You can read the posts on Motown 25 and others. I've yet to see a self proclaimed Wilson fan look at Mary objectively. And you can quote me on that. You can criticize people who say that Ross is still a star in every way. That's fine. But if you're going to say that Mary playing a hotel lounge for about hundred people is somehow a smashing success, then I'm going to call you out on your insanity.

If Berry is responsible for 85% of Diana's career, then Berry and Diana are responsible for all of Mary's. Because outside of them, she has had ZERO success.

[jobeterob]

If you go looking online for interviews by Eddie Holland, you will find one where he says he knew that it would just be a matter of time before there was trouble with Mary ~ from someone who lived through it.........


captainjames
I applaud you for this ~~
Took the words right out of my mouth.

Originally Posted by thaperson
I am not linking anything. It's well known that Wilson dissed both of them as not being "the real Supremes", even going as far as to call it betrayal because "she hired them". Once again, playing the martyr.

Did she stop and think that perhaps Scherrie and Lynda had fallen on hard times and needed the money? That perhaps they needed to take the gig that she personally rejected? She could have expressed dissapointment but ultimately wished them well. Nope. All that matters was that Mary was hurt. And getting that camera time by blasting Diana in the media and working her sob story. Yeah Mary got her way but she also helped to put those two other women out of work. But Mary's always the only victim in any situation.

I've been objective towards Ross here many times. You can read the posts on Motown 25 and others. I've yet to see a self proclaimed Wilson fan look at Mary objectively. And you can quote me on that. You can criticize people who say that Ross is still a star in every way. That's fine. But if you're going to say that Mary playing a hotel lounge for about hundred people is somehow a smashing success, then I'm going to call you out on your insanity.

If Berry is responsible for 85% of Diana's career, then Berry and Diana are responsible for all of Mary's. Because outside of them, she has had ZERO success.

[marv2]

Ah, you're right of course...........and then again, in drama, Labelle and Patti are no competition for the Supremes and Diana......

But if Patti were gonna have us beaten, would we run or fight? Diana & Mary would fight. I think I'd run........I'm a decent runner.


Yeah! When Mary did her "My Life" speech out in front of Hitsville that night on "Primetime Live: Downtown", it was television drama at it's best! They should have won an Emmy just for that segment! LOL! It was all over after that! After that everything should have changed. They should have went back to planning board, postponing that tour and went to work to get Mary Wilson and Cindy Birdsong what they needed to do the tour properly.

The "My Life" even startled me! It's never been uploaded to Youtube, it would definitely ignite a lot of discussion if it ever were.

[Bokiluis]

Patti it is all well and good to say "Return to Love" should have been Cindy and what's her name. In reality, when Florence met with an early transitioning, that took away any realities of a legitimate Supremes reunion. I will say for the umpteenth time, I was a Supreme fan but my allegiances were with Diana. I cannot help it. From the moment I saw that face on the cover of "Where Did Our Love Go", I couldn't stop looking at her. I naively thought that she and Mary were close friends because it seemed appropriate. Florence, even on the cover of "Where Did Our Love Go" always seemed a little detached and confronted. I didn't have the language to identify it at 11 years old but I just remember having to almost force myself to look up to see Florence on the cover. I am not going to rehash "Return to Love" issues as I am sure they have been beaten into submission numerous times. But for me, it was a fabulous show that celebrated the songs that identified my formative years. Though Lynda and Scherrie were virtually the same age as Florence and what's her name, they somehow looked younger and more vibrant. So when they hit that stage, at the Palace in Detroit, they fit their roles perfectly. Lynda with her blonde wig looked prettier than Florence was at times, Scherrie was and is adorable. It took ages before we found out that Cindy actually wanted to be a part of "Return to Love". However, what's her name selfishly messed up that opportunity for her as well. By the time she expressed interest, the producers had decided to go in a different direction. Call me gullible, but, I bought into Diana's suggestion that various Supremes members join the tour at appropriate intervals. I would have loved to seen Jean pop up in Philadelphia and really do justice to the Suprms '70s material. But, alas, that didn't happen. What did happen was a night of sheer bliss. Somewhere in the world, there exists the full version of opening night at the Spectrum videotaped by VH1. I just cannot see that they recorded a few songs and then turned the cameras off. That would have been foolish and shortsighted. But who knows. I'll hold out hope that it exists, just caught me in legalities. But back to Miss Patti. I love you dear Patti, but maybe you should learn to censor yourself a little. The LaBelle reunion was no landmark event. It came and went without a lot of fanfare including their rather underwhelming reunion CD, "Back to Now".....so maybe her concentration should have been on making those two things better rather than lamenting about something that was really none of her concern.

[captainjames]

yes, Patti it is not cute anymore~~~~~~~~~
and yes Miss Thing still like you but I think she is tired of it too.
As, I mentioned earlier I think this is an old mention from Ms. Labelle. What she found out that even witht the original members it is not that easy.

[smark21]

Patti it is all well and good to say "Return to Love" should have been Cindy and what's her name. In reality, when Florence met with an early transitioning, that took away any realities of a legitimate Supremes reunion. I will say for the umpteenth time, I was a Supreme fan but my allegiances were with Diana. I cannot help it. From the moment I saw that face on the cover of "Where Did Our Love Go", I couldn't stop looking at her. I naively thought that she and Mary were close friends because it seemed appropriate. Florence, even on the cover of "Where Did Our Love Go" always seemed a little detached and confronted. I didn't have the language to identify it at 11 years old but I just remember having to almost force myself to look up to see Florence on the cover. I am not going to rehash "Return to Love" issues as I am sure they have been beaten into submission numerous times. But for me, it was a fabulous show that celebrated the songs that identified my formative years. Though Lynda and Scherrie were virtually the same age as Florence and what's her name, they somehow looked younger and more vibrant. So when they hit that stage, at the Palace in Detroit, they fit their roles perfectly. Lynda with her blonde wig looked prettier than Florence was at times, Scherrie was and is adorable. It took ages before we found out that Cindy actually wanted to be a part of "Return to Love". However, what's her name selfishly messed up that opportunity for her as well. By the time she expressed interest, the producers had decided to go in a different direction. Call me gullible, but, I bought into Diana's suggestion that various Supremes members join the tour at appropriate intervals. I would have loved to seen Jean pop up in Philadelphia and really do justice to the Suprms '70s material. But, alas, that didn't happen. What did happen was a night of sheer bliss. Somewhere in the world, there exists the full version of opening night at the Spectrum videotaped by VH1. I just cannot see that they recorded a few songs and then turned the cameras off. That would have been foolish and shortsighted. But who knows. I'll hold out hope that it exists, just caught me in legalities. But back to Miss Patti. I love you dear Patti, but maybe you should learn to censor yourself a little. The LaBelle reunion was no landmark event. It came and went without a lot of fanfare including their rather underwhelming reunion CD, "Back to Now".....so maybe her concentration should have been on making those two things better rather than lamenting about something that was really none of her concern.

Flo didn't meet an early transitioning, she DIED.

[captainjames]

I may be wrong but I think he meant early transititioning meant leaving here and moving over spirtually.

[smark21]

I may be wrong but I think he meant early transititioning meant leaving here and moving over spirtually.

"early transitioning" is a new agey euphenism for "she died young".

[ejluther]

Yeah! When Mary did her "My Life" speech out in front of Hitsville that night on "Primetime Live: Downtown", it was television drama at it's best!...It's never been uploaded to Youtube
I wonder why it hasn't been uploaded anywhere - does anyone have a copy?

[carlo]

Yes, I do have a copy. I tried uploading it once in the past and I was unsuccessful because the video quality got messed up in the process. I will try again sometime over the holidays.

[ejluther]

Thanks, Carlo - I'd love to see it...

[captainjames]

I would love to hear what Nona and Sarah has to say about how the labelle reunion went.

[revvy]

I'm with you, Luke. I would have seen that show more than once, too!

[luke]

Carlo--how freakin cute-mom getting you out of bed --out little Motowner!!

[carlo]

Carlo--how freakin cute-mom getting you out of bed --out little Motowner!!

Thanks! :) Yeah, as much as I probably drove and still drive my Mom up the wall with The Supremes over the years, she was always good to me when I was young...taping shows and interviews, accompanying me to concerts and buying me books or CD's for Christmas. However, when I tried to cover every inch of my bedroom walls with pictures of The Supremes as a kid, she made me take it all down. lol.

[luke]

Oh no!! You keep goin Carlo--carry it on when some of us "transition" lol.

[ivyfield]

Shouldn't this be removed if the clip ain't there for all of us to see? I was there for the beginning of the RTL tour - the ladies got on great - still do. The last line-up of Diana Ross & The Supremes.

[revvy]

Shouldn't this be removed if the clip ain't there for all of us to see? I was there for the beginning of the RTL tour - the ladies got on great - still do. The last line-up of Diana Ross & The Supremes.

Get over it , Steve! Nobody likes this grouping of scab Supremes except for you! You probably play that horrible video every night before you go to sleep!

[luke]

Never seemed like the Supremes to me and the clips I saw were not good. How can a group be presented as singer and as one NY columnist said" the other two standing like they were at another end of an airport?"

[marv2]

Never seemed like the Supremes to me and the clips I saw were not good. How can a group be presented as singer and as one NY columnist said" the other two standing like they were at another end of an airport?"

That was not a group in any sense of the word. Save for a few promo pics taken together they were hardly a group.

[milven]

That was not a group in any sense of the word. Save for a few promo pics taken together they were hardly a group.

For once we agree. I was originally psyched up for a re-union of the Supremes. When it became in reality a Diana Ross tribute to the Supremes, I decided not to attend. I could see that in smaller places than MSG, like RCMH, and cheaper.

Having said that, I have seen the concert on DVD and it was good. But, as stated above, a 747 could have landed between Diana and Lynda and Sherrie.

The music industry is a business, and as such, I can not blame Sherrie and Lynda to jump at the opportunity to make a quick buck.

But this is all a dozen years old and I am over it. I continue to support ALL the Supremes and all that they do.