What I took away from Wednsday night's debate.....

[Doug-Morgan]

....I mean besides the fact that that is the most unimpressive group of candidates I have seen in a long time.

I was impressed by Newt Gingrich. Lord knows I don't agree with him at all, but he came across as the only adult in the room. He was impressive in that he made his arguments without relying on canned 30 second soundbites, presenting his positions in a clear, articulate manner, more than I can say for the other 7 dwarfs.

Here's my thought. In the same way that the conservative David Gergen helped shape Bill Clinton's 2nd term, if I were President Obama [[and won in 2012), I would appoint Newt as an advisor. On hiring a conservative lawyer on The West Wing, the line "The President likes smart people who disagree with him" was used as a justification. I think Newt would fill that bill.

As an aside, I thought John Huntsman did a pretty good job, and that both he and Gingrich did better in a closely focused debate. Both did their homework and were better prepared than the others.

[splanky]

I couldn't watch the debates,Doug, I think I've heard just about all I want to hear from this cast of characters but I have
to ask you if I may: Why should a sitting president appoint anyone to any position he or she knows would do just about anything to undermine and sabatoge their presidency? If I had a hint Obama was going to do that with Toad Gangrene I would not vote for him again. I cannot stand that man...

[ms_m]

When asked abut his lobbyist ties with Freddie Mac Gingrich said he was never a lobbyist for Freddie Mac but hired as an "historian"

Doug, I've got some gorgeous beach front property for sale on the south end of Las Vegas Blvd [[LVN).....I'll give you a great deal....let's talk:)

[ms_m]

An interesting article from 2008…just something to think about….


Before Mortgage Meltdown, Freddie Mac Lobbying Held Federal Regulators at Bay
Freddie Mac fended off any meaningful regulation in the years before the housing mortgage giant crashed. 


http://www.cnsnews.com/news/article/mortgage-meltdown-freddie-mac-lobbying-held-federal-regulators-bay

[Doug-Morgan]

Splanky......
.....I think it's advisable to listen to "the other side" as much as possible. One of my best friends in college was the state chairman of "Young Americans For Freedom", a conservative student group, and the many political and policy discussions we had were insturmental in shaping my views [[keeping in mind that at Northwood Institute in the late 60's, I was THE liberal). Listening to smart people you disagree with can't hurt anybody. Politicians have forgotten this.

Ms. M......
....remember, I'm not that gullible. I didn't say I agreed with Newt. But he is smart and presented his positions well in this debate, as did John Huntsman. I think Newt's poll bump partially reflects this.

And I'll pass on the Vegas beachfront. I think we may have a couple of lots available on the Columbia River near the new sewer plant outfall. Would you like me to check on those for you?

[ms_m]

LOL...glad to hear....but I knew that.:) I agree he's smart....many con artist are.

I don't know Doug, I think the poll bump reflects the fact that the Republicans... strike that...hard core CONSERVATIVES are running out of, anyone but Romney choices... shrugs

None of them do it for me....none of them seem to have a clue they need to connect with and work to help the middle class...I'll just be glad when one emerges and we get the real show on the road!

[splanky]

Doug, in my time I've known a wide variety of people. Very scholarly racists, brilliant men who sold drugs, talented singers
who gangbanged and highly literate people who had confessed to me that they'd abused teenagers among them. I've had very intelligent conservations with them about a number of things so believe I have no problem with just listening. But if I were putting together a team to work with me on my plan to lead an organisation I seriously doubt I'd give any of them any position of power within it.
I have a bridge just across the river from me in Brooklyn if you're still shopping, my friend:)...

[Doug-Morgan]

Splanky....
....I just realised I didn't answer your original question.

Why? For the same reason I listen to all sides of an argument. It goes back to the "well informed" thing. A politician represents all the people in his/her district, state, country, etc. and it does him no good if he doesn't have a clue what a good chunk of the people he's representing are thinking. Both parties are suffering from this problem right now. For the hide bound conservative Republicans to dismiss the "progressive agenda" out of hand is stupid, nearly as dumb as the progressive Democrats poo pooing the conservative "agenda" without so much as a look.

Secondly, it's politics. Placing a right wing reactionary in an "advisor's" role in the White House would probably be a smart move, giving the right some assurance that their argument is being listened to. The press Clinton got after Gergen was appointed to such a role was phenominal. It would NOT be a policy role, but an advisory one.

Third, I just like hearing arguments against my position presented in a clear and articulate manner. Newt does that.

BTW, out here our bridge land is Lake Waterville shoreline. Maybe we could work out a swap.

[splanky]

Doug, I'm not talking about being willing to listen to opposing arguments or giving credit to opposing views..

What part of this did you not understand?:

Why should a sitting president appoint anyone to any position he or she knows would do just about anything to undermine and sabatoge their presidency

You still haven't answered my question, but hey, I won't hold it against you in future discourse...

[Doug-Morgan]

Here's where the argument falls apart. Your argument sounds a lot like politics as usual, and what I take away from your comments are that anyone who opposes the president is attempting to "do just about anything to undermine and sabatoge the presidency". I don't see that in Newt. What I do see is a different take on the role of government, but I do think he understands governance better than the other 7 dwarfs.....with the possible exception of John Huntsman, and think that after the election, he would make an interesting advocate for his position within a Democratic administration.

[smark21]

Here's where the argument falls apart. Your argument sounds a lot like politics as usual, and what I take away from your comments are that anyone who opposes the president is attempting to "do just about anything to undermine and sabatoge the presidency". I don't see that in Newt. What I do see is a different take on the role of government, but I do think he understands governance better than the other 7 dwarfs.....with the possible exception of John Huntsman, and think that after the election, he would make an interesting advocate for his position within a Democratic administration.

YOu must be very young, very naive, or have a bad memory. Back in the 90's Gingrich was one of the Republicans leading the charge for Clinton to be impeached over the Monica Lewinski affair. He's always been a rabid partisian. Sure he cut a few deals with Clinton when he was speaker of the HOuse, but by and large he's been rabid in his belief that any administratoin led by a Democratic President is somehow illegitimate. Huntsman would be a more viable person to ask to serve in an Obama second term. In fact, Huntsman was US Ambassador to China from 2009-early 2011.

[splanky]

Good points, smark, Toad wants people to forget how rabid he was then and I doubt he's changed. Remember this the same
man who called Obama a con man, the Food Stamps President and said Barack may hold a Kenyan, anti-colonial view, all of this a year and change back. I wouldn't give this jerk a position in a waffle house...

[Doug-Morgan]

No, not young...my grandaughter just had her 15th birthday....nor nieve. Just not as cynical as most, which gets me into trouble in discussions like these. I'm less likely to look at what was said during the Clinton administration, given that was 10 to 18 years ago, and to consider political posturing and posing a little less than other people.

Shall we agree to disagree? We're obviously of different opinions on this, and it's probably wise to conclude that no one is going to change anyone's mind here......

[ms_m]

You guys seem to be talking over one another and imo this is why....
Doug, in you initial statement you said this


if I were President Obama [[and won in 2012), I would appoint Newt as an advisor.

So we're not just talking anyone, we're talking Newt Gingrich....that doesn't mean people can't listen to opposing sides of a view point but Gingrich has shown he's not credible no matter how calm and intelligent his persona may be and he's shown it over a very long period of time.

Secure people don't want yes men and women around them and on that I believe you and I agree but again, Newt Gingrich is simply not just anyone....he is as dishonest and full of it as they come. He has company when standing next to the other Republican candidates but again, the initial comment was about Newt not an opposing view point from anyone else.

Just my 1.5 cents:)

[paladin]

Good points, smark, Toad wants people to forget how rabid he was then and I doubt he's changed. Remember this the same
man who called Obama a con man, the Food Stamps President and said Barack may hold a Kenyan, anti-colonial view, all of this a year and change back. I wouldn't give this jerk a position in a waffle house...


Splank that was too funny.........

[Doug-Morgan]

Maybe I should have used the phrase "consider appointing". You make a good point, Ms. M, although I tend to look less cynically at most people. If there was one could pull the politics out of him, his opinions are worth listening to.

BTW, anyone got an opinion on tonight's debate? Our local CBS outlet cut the second hour to go to local news, but I thought Huntsman and Santorum [[and to a lesser extent Michelle Bachmann) came off as the best perpared and most reasonable in this foreign policy based debate.

[ms_m]

If there was one could pull the politics out of him, his opinions are worth listening to.

Coming from someone more honorable maybe, [[and that's a big maybe) coming from Newt, he's saying whatever it takes to make himself seem more reasonable than the rest of the field.....if hell froze over and he were to make it to the White House he'd forget every single reasonable argument he ever made and sell us all down the river [[with the exception of the 1% of course)

Doug, the politics doesn't bother me, that's simply standard operating procedure what ever side it's coming from....it's the policy I focus on and I haven't heard a Republican policy yet that would help me or folks like me in any way, shape or form

I stopped watching the debates and only watch the clips now.

Technically we don't have open primaries here in NC although Indies can vote in either one. So if I wanted I could but why bother. I'm at the point I really don't care who wins the Repub nomination...I'm working my arse off against whoever it is.

WE finally got our School Board out of the hands of the TP and I won't stop until they are inconsequential...

[ms_m]

I watched a few clips....on social issues, I don't see eye to eye with anyone up there including Huntsman but if the hard core conservatives would use their brains instead of operating from emotion they would know he's the only one that could probably beat President Obama...but hard core conservatives haven't shown they are capable of getting past their emotions so oh well, he's toast after the SC primaries....the rest would take us back to being a laughing stock throughout the world and possibly get us attacked again...no thanks!

[soulster]

I was impressed by Newt Gingrich. Lord knows I don't agree with him at all, but he came across as the only adult in the room. He was impressive in that he made his arguments without relying on canned 30 second soundbites, presenting his positions in a clear, articulate manner, more than I can say for the other 7 dwarfs.


Don't allw yourself to forget all the things Gingrich had said and done over the last two years. He's said some pretty despicable stuff.

I wouldn't give the sweat off my b**** to any of them.