The Jackson family to file a wrongful death suit against AEG.

[Roberta75]

How are they responsible for his death?

http://www.ktla.com/news/landing/ktla-jackson-aeg-civil-suit,0,7055280.story

[jobeterob]

Particularly in the USA, you can concoct a claim out of nearly anything.

[Roberta75]

Particularly in the USA, you can concoct a claim out of nearly anything.

But AEG have clearly stated from day one that they did not want Dr. Conrad Murray around. It was Michael Jackson who insisted that AEG use Murray instead of the British doctor that AEG wanted to hire. I fail to see how a concert promoter is in any way responsible for Michael Jackson's death.

[marybrewster]

The Jackson family is now grasping at straws. I assume it's their way of dealing with the loss. Unfortunately, they are too late. If they wanted to do something, they should have done something while Michael was alive. I don't care to hear how unreachable and untouchable MJ was; family is family and if you care for someone, you'll do ANYTHING to get to them.

[Roberta75]

The Jackson family is now grasping at straws. I assume it's their way of dealing with the loss. Unfortunately, they are too late. If they wanted to do something, they should have done something while Michael was alive. I don't care to hear how unreachable and untouchable MJ was; family is family and if you care for someone, you'll do ANYTHING to get to them.

You are right marybrewster. I'd tear down walls, scale mountains and swim oceans for my family.

[jaybs]

The only case against AIG and Dr Conrad Murray should be for Michael's Three Children and any money that the court may give should be put in Trust until they are of the age to look after there share themselves.

Just going to sit down and watch the UK Exclusive Interview with Dr Conrad Murray for Channel 4 in the UK, I think ABC did similar in the USA, I just Hope this man was made No Payment as this was recorded each day of the court proceedings.

[Roberta75]

The only case against AIG and Dr Conrad Murray should be for Michael's Three Children and any money that the court may give should be put in Trust until they are of the age to look after there share themselves.

Just going to sit down and watch the UK Exclusive Interview with Dr Conrad Murray for Channel 4 in the UK, I think ABC did similar in the USA, I just Hope this man was made No Payment as this was recorded each day of the court proceedings.

I can see a wrongful death civil suit against Conrad Murray for monetary damages but fail to see what they are suing concert promoter AEG for? Conrad Murray was Michael Jackson’s choice. Jackson insisted that AEG hire Dr. Murray. AEG had wanted to hire a British doctor. I think the Jackson family are making a big mistake by suing AEG which is owned by a Denver billionaire.

[kenneth]

I can see a wrongful death civil suit against Conrad Murray for monetary damages but fail to see what they are suing concert promoter AEG for? Conrad Murray was Michael Jackson’s choice. Jackson insisted that AEG hire Dr. Murray. AEG had wanted to hire a British doctor. I think the Jackson family are making a big mistake by suing AEG which is owned by a Denver billionaire.

Well, the family is also used to doing anything to capitalize on Michael's fame and legacy and this is part of it. Also, AEG is the "deep pockets"...Murray will have nothing if he isn't down to nothing already from the criminal trial.

[marv2]

Great! I hope they sue everybody! AEG took out something like a $1 Billion Insurance Policy on Mike. Sue 'em! Then sue Don Cornelius, Dick Clark, Suzanne DePasse, Tony Jones, etc for making them wear those funny costumes back in the 70's! I say sue them all! LOL!!!!

[jobeterob]

Murray's lawyers have anything he had left.

He is lowlife and probably doesn't understand that but he is also a victim of Michael Jackson.

[Rosie]

But AEG have clearly stated from day one that they did not want Dr. Conrad Murray around. It was Michael Jackson who insisted that AEG use Murray instead of the British doctor that AEG wanted to hire. I fail to see how a concert promoter is in any way responsible for Michael Jackson's death.
I agree! This is getting silly! If MJ didn't want Conrad he wouldn't have been there period! It ended in death and thats too bad but those kinda substances shouldn't have been around in the 1st place! AIG and Conrad didn't force any substances on him. I think everyone needs to just take it as a lesson learned & move on!

[Roberta75]

I agree! This is getting silly! If MJ didn't want Conrad he wouldn't have been there period! It ended in death and thats too bad but those kinda substances shouldn't have been around in the 1st place! AIG and Conrad didn't force any substances on him. I think everyone needs to just take it as a lesson learned & move on!

Exactly Rosie. Michael Jackson gave his consent to everything that happened to him otherwise it wouldn't have happened. I know for us regular folk it's very rare, but among the super rich and famous the doctor is basically told what to do or they get replaced. If it wasn't Dr. Conrad Murray, MJ would have found somebody else to fulfill his every whim. That's what he did his whole life and he paid the ultimate price in the end. Terribly sad that his kids are now without a father but surely he knew the risks involved by using Propofol as a sleep aid.

[jobeterob]

Completely true Roberta.

[waldo]

How are they responsible for his death?

http://www.ktla.com/news/landing/ktla-jackson-aeg-civil-suit,0,7055280.story

because of the pressure they put MJ through to make him rehearse for 50 shows.. they knew at least 45 days before his death that MJ was sick, not eating, losing weight, not sleeping.. but still the show must go on. all they cared about was getting to London and making money. they should have pulled the plug when they realised MJ was unwell. again more than a month prior to June 25th.

how can you not know this ????????? is it wrong for the Jackson family to file suit ??

[marv2]

because of the pressure they put MJ through to make him rehearse for 50 shows.. they knew at least 45 days before his death that MJ was sick, not eating, losing weight, not sleeping.. but still the show must go on. all they cared about was getting to London and making money. they should have pulled the plug when they realised MJ was unwell. again more than a month prior to June 25th.

how can you not know this ????????? is it wrong for the Jackson family to file suit ??

Roberta and the rest of them know that. They can even tell what Berry Gordy was thinking 40 years ago. They just want to lump everything onto Michael Jackson like he committed suicide through his excesses. They also prefer to characterize the Jackson Family as being a bunch of crazy scoundrels. I don't even use these types of words normally, but it is what it is! LOL!

AEG took out a huge insurance policy on Michael reportedly in the $1 Billion range so that in the event he could not perform the 50 concerts, they stood to collect!

[jillfoster]

The Jackson family is now grasping at straws. I assume it's their way of dealing with the loss. Unfortunately, they are too late. If they wanted to do something, they should have done something while Michael was alive. I don't care to hear how unreachable and untouchable MJ was; family is family and if you care for someone, you'll do ANYTHING to get to them.
Unreachable, my ASS... i'd walk in there with a shotgun and show them unreachable.

[marv2]

Unreachable, my ASS... i'd walk in there with a shotgun and show them unreachable.

We had to call the fire dept one time when my sister locked herself in the bathroom when she was a little girl and didn't know how to unlock the door. They had to bring the truck with this two story ladder to climb in and get her out. LOL!

[Roberta75]

because of the pressure they put MJ through to make him rehearse for 50 shows.. they knew at least 45 days before his death that MJ was sick, not eating, losing weight, not sleeping.. but still the show must go on. all they cared about was getting to London and making money. they should have pulled the plug when they realised MJ was unwell. again more than a month prior to June 25th.

how can you not know this ????????? is it wrong for the Jackson family to file suit ??

I respectfully disagree with you waldo. Nobody held a gun to Michael's head when he agreed to do those shows. AEG is a business not a baby sitting service. If Michael wasn't fit enough to do the shows he should never have agreed to do them. Michael Jackson was deeply in debt and this was his shot at making millions and millions of dollars.

MJ was a professional entertainer who agreed to do a tour backed by concert promoters AEG. They were backing the tour and he was the product they were selling. Come on, Michael was used to working with concert promoters for decades and was a very smart businessman. Surely he knew what he was getting into?

An extended stay in a rehab facility would have been a better idea but Michael wasn't ready to admit he had a problem with drugs. Sadly it was that very problem that killed him.

Roberta

[Roberta75]

Unreachable, my ASS... i'd walk in there with a shotgun and show them unreachable.

But Michael was their meal ticket jillfoster.

[marv2]

I respectfully disagree with you waldo. Nobody held a gun to Michael's head when he agreed to do those shows.

Yeah they did......it's called a contract!

AEG is a business not a baby sitting service. If Michael wasn't fit enough to do the shows he should never have agreed to do them.

What a nice charitable, Christian sentiment!

Michael Jackson was deeply in debt and this was his shot at making millions and millions of dollars.

So you begrudgingly agree that he was trying to do the right thing?

MJ was a professional entertainer who agreed to do a tour backed by concert promoters AEG. They were backing the tour and he was the product they were selling. Come on, Michael was used to working with concert promoters for decades and was a very smart businessman. Surely he knew what he was getting into?

Even I, who knows nothing or anyone thought it was big, almost impossible undertaking the moment Michael announced that he would be doing 50 shows in something 3 weeks time. At his age and in his physical condition which everyone could clearly see was not that good.

An extended stay in a rehab facility would have been a better idea but Michael wasn't ready to admit he had a problem with drugs. Sadly it was that very problem that killed him.

Maybe he should have talked to his good friend Diana Ross about which rehab facility worked best for her?

Roberta

Roberta75;77113]I respectfully disagree with you waldo. Nobody held a gun to Michael's head when he agreed to do those shows.

Yeah they did......it's called a contract!

AEG is a business not a baby sitting service. If Michael wasn't fit enough to do the shows he should never have agreed to do them.

What nice a charitable, Christian sentiment!

Michael Jackson was deeply in debt and this was his shot at making millions and millions of dollars.

So you begrudgingly agree that he was trying to do the right thing?

MJ was a professional entertainer who agreed to do a tour backed by concert promoters AEG. They were backing the tour and he was the product they were selling. Come on, Michael was used to working with concert promoters for decades and was a very smart businessman. Surely he knew what he was getting into?

Even I, who knows nothing or anyone thought it was a big, almost impossible undertaking the moment Michael announced that he would be doing 50 shows in something 3 weeks time. At his age and in his physical condition which everyone could clearly see was not that good.

An extended stay in a rehab facility would have been a better idea but Michael wasn't ready to admit he had a problem with drugs. Sadly it was that very problem that killed him.

Maybe he should have talked to his good friend Diana Ross about which rehab facility worked best for her?

[Rosie]

I respectfully disagree with you waldo. Nobody held a gun to Michael's head when he agreed to do those shows. AEG is a business not a baby sitting service. If Michael wasn't fit enough to do the shows he should never have agreed to do them. Michael Jackson was deeply in debt and this was his shot at making millions and millions of dollars.

MJ was a professional entertainer who agreed to do a tour backed by concert promoters AEG. They were backing the tour and he was the product they were selling. Come on, Michael was used to working with concert promoters for decades and was a very smart businessman. Surely he knew what he was getting into?

An extended stay in a rehab facility would have been a better idea but Michael wasn't ready to admit he had a problem with drugs. Sadly it was that very problem that killed him.

Roberta
I agree its like nothing's ever MJ's fault! Its like everyone was either turning their heads[[denial) or nodding in agreement most his life! I love him but I don't love him to death! His family needs to just bow out gracefully. Regardless of the pressure to do the shows he could've said NO or took PROPER care of himself to keep in shape! Tina Turner,Mick Jagger or James Brown for instance worked like crazy in their old ages. It can be done...you dont need that extreme s**t!

[marv2]

I agree its like nothing's ever MJ's fault! Its like everyone was either turning their heads[[denial) or nodding in agreement most his life! I love him but I don't love him to death! His family needs to just bow out gracefully. Regardless of the pressure to do the shows he could've said NO or took PROPER care of himself to keep in shape! Tina Turner,Mick Jagger or James Brown for instance worked like crazy in their old ages. It can be done...you dont need that extreme s**t!

No! What they should do is get HALF of that insurance policy!

[stephanie]

I thought that [[correct me If I am wrong) MJ was slated to do 15 shows and somehow they snuck in 50 shows and he didnt agree to that. What upsets me is the public blaming MJ's problem on the family saying they didnt try to help him. Janet said they tried to help him and the powers that be [[his inner circle) wouldnt let the family near him [[although I find it hard to believe). I felt sorry for MJ he reminds me of other stars like Judy Garland who were overworked and became addicted. It is really not his fault I sometimes wish they had never made that Pepsi commercial or he would still be alive. Its easy to get addicted to painkillers.

[Rosie]

^^Okay if they MUST have the money, can they do it in a more classy way?! Just keep quiet[[Jermaine & Latoya especially)...use all that time for getting the best lawyers,etc instead of focusing on the media! Its already looking train wreckish and they are gonna need all the help they can get!

[jillfoster]

But Michael was their meal ticket jillfoster.

I don't think you understood me. I took Marybrewster's statement to mean that Michael's "handlers" were keeping family away... so therefore, I said my reaction would be to go in there with guns blazing and tell those "handlers" "I'm seeing my brother, and you ain't gonna stop me!"

[Roberta75]

I don't think you understood me. I took Marybrewster's statement to mean that Michael's "handlers" were keeping family away... so therefore, I said my reaction would be to go in there with guns blazing and tell those "handlers" "I'm seeing my brother, and you ain't gonna stop me!"

If Michael had really wanted his family to see him none of his handlers could have stopped them from seeing him.

[Roberta75]

I thought that [[correct me If I am wrong) MJ was slated to do 15 shows and somehow they snuck in 50 shows and he didnt agree to that. What upsets me is the public blaming MJ's problem on the family saying they didnt try to help him. Janet said they tried to help him and the powers that be [[his inner circle) wouldnt let the family near him [[although I find it hard to believe). I felt sorry for MJ he reminds me of other stars like Judy Garland who were overworked and became addicted. It is really not his fault I sometimes wish they had never made that Pepsi commercial or he would still be alive. Its easy to get addicted to painkillers.

I don't believe for one minute that AEG "snuck in" 35 extra shows. Come on Stephanie. MJ was a businessman. Do you really think the promotor snuck in 35 extra shows into MJ's contract and he just blindly signed it? He had lawyers and managers look over everything with a fine tooth comb. Don't get me wrong I loved his music and was a big MJ fan but to somehow point the "wrongful death" finger at AEG is not only wrong, it's foolish and very misguided IMO.

[marv2]

I don't believe for one minute that AEG "snuck in" 35 extra shows. Come on Stephanie. MJ was a businessman. Do you really think the promotor snuck in 35 extra shows into MJ's contract and he just blindly signed it? He had lawyers and managers look over everything with a fine tooth comb. Don't get me wrong I loved his music and was a big MJ fan but to somehow point the "wrongful death" finger at AEG is not only wrong, it's foolish and very misguided IMO.


Why are you sticking up for AEG so tough? They are about as crooked as that SMX or whatever that promoted the disasterous "Return to Love Tour"!

[jobeterob]

Addicts are the most classic of manipulators and this one manipulated his Mom, his family, his friends, his various Doctors and surrounded himself with those that would serve him best.

[waldo]

..I sometimes wish they had never made that Pepsi commercial or he would still be alive. Its easy to get addicted to painkillers.

so true. i have thought this too. many a time. that one accident back in Januray 1984 led to his death - in a 25 year round about way. have you seen the footage. may i put it here? it's truly horrific. poor Michael, he hid the pain he endured for almost 10 years. i recall the very first time MJ mentioned an addiction to medication because of that very accident was in October 1993.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CSQh4Ol3YGw

[Roberta75]

Addicts are the most classic of manipulators and this one manipulated his Mom, his family, his friends, his various Doctors and surrounded himself with those that would serve him best.

It's terribly sad jobetrob. Now Dr. Arnold Klein, another one who fed Michael's habit, has come out and said that MJ was addicted to Propofol for years. Klein also seems to be sending a veiled threat to Joe Jackson. This posting from Klein's facebook page was reposted on a MJ board. I guess there is no love lost between Jose Jackson and Dr. Klein.

http://www.facebook.com/arnold.Klein

Arnold W. Klein
Michael had a long standing problem with Propofol and his father. This is a frivilous lawsuit and Joe I promise you come after me again with the ridiculous records they presented in court and all you will have below your belt is a vast wasteland which is more than you have in your head.Propofol abuse creates the worst insomnia known to man short of having you as a father.

[marv2]

Addicts are the most classic of manipulators and this one manipulated his Mom, his family, his friends, his various Doctors and surrounded himself with those that would serve him best.

How did Diana Ross deal with it, her addiction problem that was publicized in the early 2000's like 2001, 2002. I know she and Michael were close [[which is why he left his children to her in his will), but she went into rehab several times for painkiller abuse, alcohol. Were there other drugs? I am trying to determine if Michael was using some of the same things?

[marv2]

It's terribly sad jobetrob. Now Dr. Arnold Klein, another one who fed Michael's habit, has come out and said that MJ was addicted to Propofol for years. Klein also seems to be sending a veiled threat to Joe Jackson. This posting from Klein's facebook page was reposted on a MJ board. I guess there is no love lost between Jose Jackson and Dr. Klein.

http://www.facebook.com/arnold.Klein

Arnold W. Klein
Michael had a long standing problem with Propofol and his father. This is a frivilous lawsuit and Joe I promise you come after me again with the ridiculous records they presented in court and all you will have below your belt is a vast wasteland which is more than you have in your head.Propofol abuse creates the worst insomnia known to man short of having you as a father.

Sounds to me that Dr. Klein is afraid. If I recall correctly, it was Joe Jackson that was the first to conclude that something foul was involved in his son Michael's death and it's been proven that he was right. Maybe he knows something about this Dr. Klein and it makes him fearful of Mr. Jackson?

[kenneth]

MSNBC is currently showing "Michael Jackson and the Doctor." It's very interesting. It's obviously from Dr. Murray's point of view but it has a lot of fascinating behind-the-scenes takes of the Jackson home, Dr. Murray, and his lawyers and their [[ultimately failed) strategy. I'm kind of surprised they've let this stuff air. I have no sympathy for Dr. Murray, and no more after seeing the show, but it is interesting at least to see and hear his perspective which [[at least sometimes) appears to ring true but [[more often) appears to be for the purpose of winning at Trial.

[jobeterob]

It's hard for me to feel sympathy for Dr. Murray either; what he was doing was wrong, ethically, morally and now legally. It is unfortunate other handlers and Doctors involved will get away scot free; but I suppose their paycheques are gone.

The Jacksons certainly didn't get away scot free; I doubt they could have helped Michael; he wouldn't have allowed it and would have lied his way around them; and now they've lost a brother and son; and of course, the children, most of all, have lost their Dad.

And Joe, Latoya and Jermaine have never got off scot free; they've always come across as self interested media hogs with little to flog except a connection.

These Doctors especially and the people around Michael Jackson and Joe, Latoya and Jermaine all come across very poorly, virtually prostituting themselves to an addict.

[Roberta75]

MSNBC is currently showing "Michael Jackson and the Doctor." It's very interesting. It's obviously from Dr. Murray's point of view but it has a lot of fascinating behind-the-scenes takes of the Jackson home, Dr. Murray, and his lawyers and their [[ultimately failed) strategy. I'm kind of surprised they've let this stuff air. I have no sympathy for Dr. Murray, and no more after seeing the show, but it is interesting at least to see and hear his perspective which [[at least sometimes) appears to ring true but [[more often) appears to be for the purpose of winning at Trial.

I didn't watch the show kenneth. I wonder why MSNBC decided to make this TV show with Conrad Murray? Do they give any insight into that and did they pay Murray a fee?

Roberta

[Roberta75]

It's hard for me to feel sympathy for Dr. Murray either; what he was doing was wrong, ethically, morally and now legally. It is unfortunate other handlers and Doctors involved will get away scot free; but I suppose their paycheques are gone.

The Jacksons certainly didn't get away scot free; I doubt they could have helped Michael; he wouldn't have allowed it and would have lied his way around them; and now they've lost a brother and son; and of course, the children, most of all, have lost their Dad.

And Joe, Latoya and Jermaine have never got off scot free; they've always come across as self interested media hogs with little to flog except a connection.

These Doctors especially and the people around Michael Jackson and Joe, Latoya and Jermaine all come across very poorly, virtually prostituting themselves to an addict.

It's a terribly sad situation all round jobeterob. One feels so sad for Michael's kids and some of the Jackson family members.

[smark21]

^^Okay if they MUST have the money, can they do it in a more classy way?! Just keep quiet[[Jermaine & Latoya especially)...use all that time for getting the best lawyers,etc instead of focusing on the media! Its already looking train wreckish and they are gonna need all the help they can get!

Jackson Family and "class" are two things that have rarely gone together. The Jacksons are hopelessly trashy.

[Roberta75]

New book claims Michael Jackson had been using Propofol since 1993 and Demerol since 1999. Janet, Tito and Randy tried to intervene but Michael pushed them away. It seems like Conrad Murray was just one in a succession of enablers

http://news.yahoo.com/book-offers-glimpse-jacksons-personal-life-110732301.html

[Roberta75]

http://www.thenational.ae/news/uae-news/guilty-finding-on-jacksons-doctor-a-joke-says-quincy

Guilty finding on Jackson's doctor a joke, says Quincy. It's a joke," said Quincy Jones, 78, Jackson's producer on the hit albums Off The Wall, Thriller and Bad, which together have sold more than 160 million copies.

Speaking in Dubai, Jones said if Murray had not been treating Jackson there would have been another medical practitioner doing exactly the same.

"People of Michael's stature get whatever they want, it just goes with the territory," said the producer, who has earned a record 79 Grammy nominations over five decades. "There were 40 other doctors lined up to do the same thing, whatever it is. "I don't know why a guy would kill someone who's giving him US$150,000 [Dh551,000] a month."

[Rosie]

^You know I dont always agree with Quincy's ways but he is one of the FEW that pretty much kept it real about MJ. Sometimes I didn't want to hear it but alot of what he say rings true than and now. Conrad was messy but if he wasn't there someone else would've been sooner or later.

[marv2]

Quincy Jones is keeping it real alright. He just never seems to mention the fact that he fell out with Michael because he learned that Michael paid producers that came after Quincy much more! Quincy needs to get over it!

[jobeterob]

Quincy, Elizabeth and Diana have always had it right about Michael.

[jaybs]

I respect Quincy, but a defence of some other Doctor would have done the same is about the weakest ever line of defence I have ever heard!

The documentary in the UK was titled "The Man who Killed Michael Jackson" here was also had an extra interview with Dr Murray before hand which showed Murray in a very strange way, he came over as really eccentric! he drew the interview to a close early and said he would do a take 2, but the interviewer said that never took place as he never came back, that was 8 days before the judgement was made.

In the documentary itself I felt the two leading attorney's Both came over as a joke, I always felt Chernoff came over more as a second car salesman and Yes Franklin did win a similar case but that was 2001! and his age of 71 started to show. Throughout both Murray and the Attorney's were a little too frank and if they ever feel they had a case for appeal it went out of the door with this London Film Company production,

[jillfoster]

I agree, Jaybs... I feel that's a weak argument as well. First of all, it speaks to the greed in this country that you could even GET a doctor to do that [[again there's that pervasive attitude that the occupy movement is protesting against) But I would think that member of Michael's family, Janet at the very least, would be savvy enough to file a complaint with the state medical board concerning any doctor that would be giving Michael this stuff. And like I said before, handlers be damned, I would get the sherriff and force my way in if I were his family. Like what Cissy did to Whitney.

[kenneth]

I respect Quincy, but a defence of some other Doctor would have done the same is about the weakest ever line of defence I have ever heard!

The documentary in the UK was titled "The Man who Killed Michael Jackson" here was also had an extra interview with Dr Murray before hand which showed Murray in a very strange way, he came over as really eccentric! he drew the interview to a close early and said he would do a take 2, but the interviewer said that never took place as he never came back, that was 8 days before the judgement was made.

In the documentary itself I felt the two leading attorney's Both came over as a joke, I always felt Chernoff came over more as a second car salesman and Yes Franklin did win a similar case but that was 2001! and his age of 71 started to show. Throughout both Murray and the Attorney's were a little too frank and if they ever feel they had a case for appeal it went out of the door with this London Film Company production,

I agree with all you've said. Saying 40 others were standing in line to do the same thing is ludicrous. Even assuming that's true, Murray is the one who did it. Everyone knows he didn't intend to kill Jackson, that's why it's involuntary manslaughter. For once the prosecution didn't overreach and try to get more than what it was. Jones either doesn't understand the charges or is simply reacting emotionally to the death of his friend.

I wonder if that was the same documentary you saw, which they're broadcasting here. I agree the elder attorney seemed out of his game, especially in that testimony where he insisted Jackson wasn't on an IV drip, and the witness [[not sure who it was) pointed out to him in the medical record that, yes indeed that is what it says. The attorney then tried to spin it saying "don't you think that meant he was just intending to put him on a drip?" Uh, no. The witness then made this charming smile as if he's on a talk show [[knowing of course that he's on TV) and said, "Can we agree to disagree, Sir?" Some of the posturing for the cameras [[especially those girlfriends) was sickening.

[milven]

An extended stay in a rehab facility would have been a better idea but Michael wasn't ready to admit he had a problem with drugs. Sadly it was that very problem that killed him.

Roberta


Maybe he should have talked to his good friend Diana Ross about which rehab facility worked best for her?

Marv, I can see through your agenda with your quote above, but I actually agree with you. He should have spoken to her. It seems to have worked for her but this thread is not about Diana.



How did Diana Ross deal with it, her addiction problem that was publicized in the early 2000's like 2001, 2002. I know she and Michael were close [[which is why he left his children to her in his will), but she went into rehab several times for painkiller abuse, alcohol. Were there other drugs? I am trying to determine if Michael was using some of the same things?

Why not start a new thread asking how Diana dealt with her shortcomings? It's an interesting question, but it has been well publicized and already discussed here in many threads. Common sense would determine that few , if any people –including Diana - would have themselves anesthetized [[as one does for an operation) just to get a good night’s sleep. So she is not really a good simile for this discussion.

But getting back to Michael, its all about the money. Michael’s family did not intervene because he was a meal ticket. His doctor did what Michael wanted instead of what was best for Michael because the doctor was in debt. It was money that lured him to the job. Although it appears that Michael was not his priority. Wasn't he on the phone with one of his girlfriends when he should have been monitoring Michael. And why would medications being lying around accessible to Michael when he was paying so much money to have himself in a hospital like setting in his home? I know of no hospital that leaves medication on a nightstand and allows a patient to take it at his convenience. Damn! You even gotta beg for an aspirin in a hospital. Michael also agreed to a tour that was too strenuous to him because he lived over his head and needed money.

[marv2]

Marv, I can see through your agenda with your quote above, but I actually agree with you. He should have spoken to her. It seems to have worked for her but this thread is not about Diana.

Why not start a new thread asking how Diana dealt with her shortcomings? It's an interesting question, but it has been well publicized and already discussed here in many threads. Common sense would determine that few , if any people –including Diana - would have themselves anesthetized [[as one does for an operation) just to get a good night’s sleep. So she is not really a good simile for this discussion.

But getting back to Michael, its all about the money. Michael’s family did not intervene because he was a meal ticket. His doctor did what Michael wanted instead of what was best for Michael because the doctor was in debt. It was money that lured him to the job. Although it appears that Michael was not his priority. Wasn't he on the phone with one of his girlfriends when he should have been monitoring Michael. And why would medications being lying around accessible to Michael when he was paying so much money to have himself in a hospital like setting in his home? I know of no hospital that leaves medication on a nightstand and allows a patient to take it at his convenience. Damn! You even gotta beg for an aspirin in a hospital. Michael also agreed to a tour that was too strenuous to him because he lived over his head and needed money.

I want to know why one is consistently and continually referred to only as an "ADDICT" by some and why the other is not?

[milven]

That's a good question. My belief is that once an addict, always an addict. But once an addict has their addiction under control for quite a few years and is leading a normal, healthy life, it would be a courtesy to that person to no longer refer to him as an addict. In that category, I would include people like Robert Downey Jr and some former Supremes along with countless others. Those who did not get their additions under control are people like Amy Winehouse and Michael. There are many others whose additions are not under control. Sooner or later, they face the possibility of winding up with Michael and Amy.

[Roberta75]

That's a good question. My belief is that once an addict, always an addict. But once an addict has their addiction under control for quite a few years and is leading a normal, healthy life, it would be a courtesy to that person to no longer refer to him as an addict. In that category, I would include people like Robert Downey Jr and some former Supremes along with countless others. Those who did not get their additions under control are people like Amy Winehouse and Michael. There are many others whose additions are not under control. Sooner or later, they face the possibility of winding up with Michael and Amy.

A lot of people who were addicted to drugs and alcohol but are now clean and sober often refer to themselves as a recovering alcoholic or a recovering addict. Many will tell you that you are never cured but live a sober existence, one day at a time, hence the term "recovering" alcoholic or addict.

[marv2]

That's a good question. My belief is that once an addict, always an addict. But once an addict has their addiction under control for quite a few years and is leading a normal, healthy life, it would be a courtesy to that person to no longer refer to him as an addict. In that category, I would include people like Robert Downey Jr and some former Supremes along with countless others. Those who did not get their additions under control are people like Amy Winehouse and Michael. There are many others whose additions are not under control. Sooner or later, they face the possibility of winding up with Michael and Amy.


Yeah, BUT that is not the only thing they were known for! I take issue with it because it is just plain crazy and purposely disrespectful. When the defense tried to present the theory that Michael may have given himself the fatal dose, I knew they were grasping and full of shit. I was right.

Now there are people addicted to all sorts of things....all are harmful in their own way. The referring to the great Michael Jackson as basically just another addict, a junkie, while seemingly praising other addicts and looking the other way when comes to their addictions is just wrong. My main point in bringing up the Diana Ross rehab experience is because she was supposedly so close to Michael, close enough for him to leave his children in her care in his will. I believe the Will where Michael had that clause put in was written and signed in 2002 which was always strange to me because that is the year Diana Ross entered a rehabilitation facility for the treatment of drugs and alcohol abuse. Why would he do that? Was he in contact with her at that time? Would it not make sense that the subject would have come up between the two, the subject of drugs and rehab?

[milven]

... Many will tell you that you are never cured but live a sober existence, one day at a time, hence the term "recovering" alcoholic or addict.

Hence my statement of once an addict, always an addict. But, it has been my experience to not keep referring to a recovering addict as an addict. It is just a courtesy. Recovering addicts make the best sponsors for addicts.

[Roberta75]

Hence my statement of once an addict, always an addict. But, it has been my experience to not keep referring to a recovering addict as an addict. It is just a courtesy. Recovering addicts make the best sponsors for addicts.

I agree with you 100% milven.

Have a lovely Sunday.

Roberta

[milven]

Marv, as I said, I agree with you. He should have contacted her. And she should have contacted him. But, I even wonder how close they were in his final years. I haven't followed his trial, but maybe he isolated himself. Did he remain in contact with Elizabeth? He was a lot closer to her. She, too , was an addict. Did she reach out? And was she able to get through?
Of course, she was going through her own health problems at the time, but she was also a successful recovered addict.

[marv2]

Marv, as I said, I agree with you. He should have contacted her. And she should have contacted him. But, I even wonder how close they were in his final years. I haven't followed his trial, but maybe he isolated himself. Did he remain in contact with Elizabeth? He was a lot closer to her. She, too , was an addict. Did she reach out? And was she able to get through?
Of course, she was going through her own health problems at the time, but she was also a successful recovered addict.

He must have been close to Diana Ross to leave the care of his beloved children to her. At least that would make sense to me. I believe that he also remained in contact with Taylor, but it has been alluded to that she may have been a form of an enabler. That they share some of the same sources for their medications. Yes she too was deemed an addict. Did she reach out to offer him help with his problem? I really do not know, but there is someone out there that knows. When I think of Elizabeth Taylor, Diana Ross, Elvis Presley and so many others that did so many great things, I do not think "addict" first and I never refer to them as such! Betty Ford, we all know now what she went through, but I never hear people refer to her as an addict first.

[kenneth]

I didn't watch the show kenneth. I wonder why MSNBC decided to make this TV show with Conrad Murray? Do they give any insight into that and did they pay Murray a fee?

Roberta

Roberta,

On today's "Reliable Sources" on CNN, they stated that NBC paid "hundreds of thousands of dollars" to the British production company which made the original documentary, and which included the interviews with Murray, but that "none of the money went to Murray." I think the implication is that the British company may have paid Murray, but NBC who then bought the rights to it for U.S. broadcast, did not. "Reliable Sources" host described it as pretty "shoddy" in terms of logic, that they were still paying Murray if only indirectly.

[BobC]

You are correct, Kenneth. All these weasel terms trying to cover up the fact that a mainstream media outlet actually pays for stories! Gasp! That would mean they were no different than tabloids, even though they both use the same methods.

As usual, I am with Roberta--she isn't defending AEG, she is simply putting the blame where blame deserves to be. MJ was a grown man and if I or Roberta or any of the rest of us commoners were manipulating unscrupulous doctors for nearly two decades to score illegal drugs, nobody would try to make us out to be helpless victims. I don't know why people put celebrities into a protected category. Many people infantilize entertainers and I have never understood that.

Another great point Roberta made was that MJ's addiction ultimately left three children fatherless. That is the worst part in all of this for me. When you have children, you have a DUTY to them--and that includes not killing yourself.

[kenneth]

Very sad but very true, BobC...Kenneth

[Roberta75]

Roberta,

On today's "Reliable Sources" on CNN, they stated that NBC paid "hundreds of thousands of dollars" to the British production company which made the original documentary, and which included the interviews with Murray, but that "none of the money went to Murray." I think the implication is that the British company may have paid Murray, but NBC who then bought the rights to it for U.S. broadcast, did not. "Reliable Sources" host described it as pretty "shoddy" in terms of logic, that they were still paying Murray if only indirectly.

Thanks for this information Kenneth. Shame on them for paying Murray.

[Roberta75]

You are correct, Kenneth. All these weasel terms trying to cover up the fact that a mainstream media outlet actually pays for stories! Gasp! That would mean they were no different than tabloids, even though they both use the same methods.

As usual, I am with Roberta--she isn't defending AEG, she is simply putting the blame where blame deserves to be. MJ was a grown man and if I or Roberta or any of the rest of us commoners were manipulating unscrupulous doctors for nearly two decades to score illegal drugs, nobody would try to make us out to be helpless victims. I don't know why people put celebrities into a protected category. Many people infantilize entertainers and I have never understood that.

Another great point Roberta made was that MJ's addiction ultimately left three children fatherless. That is the worst part in all of this for me. When you have children, you have a DUTY to them--and that includes not killing yourself.

Thank you BobC. I'm sure MJ loved those kids very much but one could tell he was high during that Martin Bashir interview when he dangled the baby out of the hotel room window and then manically tried to force a feeding bottle into the baby's mouth. If you or I did that to our kids we'd have social services on our doorstep.

Granting that interview to Mr. Bashir was one of the worst mistake Michael ever made.

Roberta

[jaybs]

I don't see this line of defence, Once an Addict! always an Addict! it's another Ed Chernoff stupid line, if I had heart problems and went to a doctor if he did not give me the correct treatment and I died, that is not My Fault! it is the Doctor's - MURRAY should Never given what Michael asked for, weaning him off is a weak line again, his story to Channel 4 what if I had a gun, what would you do, was a very strange comparison which seems to sum up Murray's personalty full stop!

[midnightman]

Quincy may love Michael but his statements, first concerning Michael's vitiligo after he died, and this statement about Murray almost makes it seem like he either didn't really know about Michael or he's bitter about something.

As for the family, they're grasping at straws if they think AEG will accept responsibility for what happened to their son/brother. Michael was everyone's meal ticket for years now people are pointing fingers.

[marv2]

Quincy may love Michael but his statements, first concerning Michael's vitiligo after he died, and this statement about Murray almost makes it seem like he either didn't really know about Michael or he's bitter about something.

As for the family, they're grasping at straws if they think AEG will accept responsibility for what happened to their son/brother. Michael was everyone's meal ticket for years now people are pointing fingers.


He is bitter over the fact that Michael Jackson paid other producers more than he paid Quincy! He's mentioned that once or twice.

[jobeterob]

From Canada's Newsmagazine, at a distance from it all:

Murray, hired by Jackson in 2006, made an attractive scapegoat for family members and delusional fans, none of whom wanted to acknowedge the desperate psychological condition and drug seeking behaviour of the emaciated King of Pop.

All in all, Murray will receive about the same punishment he would have gotten for assisting in a suicide. That seems appropriate, given that the unlucky, weak willed physician was alone in the dock to take the brunt of a slow motion tragedy, decades in the making, that involved dozens of other enablers.

[smark21]

From Canada's Newsmagazine, at a distance from it all:

Murray, hired by Jackson in 2006, made an attractive scapegoat for family members and delusional fans, none of whom wanted to acknowedge the desperate psychological condition and drug seeking behaviour of the emaciated King of Pop.

All in all, Murray will receive about the same punishment he would have gotten for assisting in a suicide. That seems appropriate, given that the unlucky, weak willed physician was alone in the dock to take the brunt of a slow motion tragedy, decades in the making, that involved dozens of other enablers.

I've seen messages posted at a Facebook page for Michael Jackson fans. Some of these people are very disturbed..looking forward to reuniting with Michael in the next life, wanting to touch the handcuffs used to brace Dr. Murray after he was convicted, regreting giving birth to children as child rearing meant she could no longer follow Michael around the world and hang outside his hotel; declaring they will no longer be fans of the judge if he gives Dr. Murray a light sentence; talking about still being in tears more than two years after Michael died. Sick, sad stuff.

[jobeterob]

Michael certainly had very devoted, some very delusional, distraught and crazy fans; he just had more of them than most artists.

[jaybs]

Just out of interest Dr Paul White the chief witness for the defence was fined $250 yesterday for contempt in court and also for what he called the Prosecution witness Dr Steven Shafer, to the press why he was sat in court behind the defence attorney's advising them.

Personally I was impressed with Dr Shafer even if he was a little eccentric at times, but Dr Paul White as was shown in the documentary at Michael J Franklin's home was not always independent, does not seem to have learnt a lesson as he was leaving the court room walking down the hallway he spoke to the press & media and for me showed contempt once more to the court and Judge Pastor when he said that the fine was "incredible, unconscionable, egregious". Flanagan also said "what did you expect?" - it surprises me a man of such distinction in his medical field was willing to sell his soul in some ways at the end of his career.

[jobeterob]

One of the disturbing aspects of this trial, like other major criminal trials, is that it showed a very dark side of celebrity ~ addiction, what money can buy, what people will do for money, that members of every profession can be bought, that our heroes are just human beings with graphic failings.

The Doctor you mention doesn't understand that one of the underpinnings of American Society is that there must be respect for the decisions of a judge; you can disagree with the rulings, but the rules are the rules and they must be followed whether you are a doctor, lawyer, Michael Jackson, or the President.

[jobeterob]

Prosecutor: Make doctor pay $100 million for Michael Jackson's deathBy Alan Duke, CNN

November 24, 2011 -- Updated 1752 GMT [[0152 HKT)
STORY HIGHLIGHTS

Prosecution and defense lawyers file sentence memos in Dr. Conrad Murray's case
Judge Pastor sentences Murray Tuesday

Los Angeles [[CNN) -- Prosecutors want the judge to sentence Michael Jackson's doctor to the maximum four years in prison and order him to pay the pop icon's children more than $100 million in restitution, a document filed in court said.

Defense lawyers filed a brief calling Dr. Conrad Murray a "grief-stricken man" who should be given probation, not prison time, in light of the "manifold collateral consequences" of the felony conviction, including the loss of his medical career.

Los Angeles Superior Court Judge Michael Pastor set next Tuesday for Murray's sentencing on the involuntary manslaughter conviction.

A jury found Murray guilty of being responsible for Jackson's death earlier this month after a six-week trial.

[jaybs]

I fully agree with the Prosecutor David Walgren, Dr Conrad Murray was found Guilty & needs to pay as well as show remorse for what he did wrong. I did hear that Murray was trying to cancel his medical practice certificate before any announcement is made, so he could reapply in on years time to have it back again, I'm sorry by Mr Murray should never practice medicine again.

Defence want Probation for Mr Murray and that he serve it in the medical sector, what a joke. I think the defence made a big mistake allowing the TV Documentary, it has done even more damage to their case.

Many people do not agree about the damages claim, but I remember the words of Ed Chernoff in his summing up "it has to be said if this case was Not Michael Jackson" yes Mr Chernoff damages would be set without doubt, these damages are not for The Jackson Family, they are for three young children/people who have their lives in front of them and why should they suffer because of the total incompetency & medical neglect of one man.

I do not see Judge Pastor being someone who will be fooled!

[jobeterob]

I see he got 4 years in the LA jail..........but it's not much for news anymore.

[marv2]

I knew it! Conrad Murray is history. Next!

[BobC]

WRONG! They just dropped it to two years!

[marv2]

Will Dr. Conrad Murray survive his time in jail? That is a big question.

[dianesfan_1965]

I see he got 4 years in the LA jail..........but it's not much for news anymore.

Did they include having to listen to La Toya Jackson "sing" on an endless loop? Oh wait, the Geneva Convention bans such horrible torture.

[jobeterob]

I see he gets his own cell now. But he will have to listen to Latoya 3 times a day so that'll do him in. And a few Jermaine interviews.

[jaybs]

It was sad to watch the performance of Ed Chernoff, if ever a plea was over the top! I have not seen anything that states that Dr Murray's sentence has been reduced from four years to two? J Michael Franklin was very critical of Judge Michael Pastor, but I felt the judge was fair throughout and would have given more and sent Murray to State Jail if he had been allowed.

Now it is time for the Medical Councils/Boards throughout the USA to unite and ensure he does not practice again!

[jobeterob]

Was all over the news after the sentencing that he will only serve two years.........something about overcrowding in the jails; so he serves 2 years less the time he already served, and it's in the County Jail, his own cell.

Nonetheless, it won't be fun.

I wonder if he'll end up out even earlier.

[kenneth]

Was all over the news after the sentencing that he will only serve two years.........something about overcrowding in the jails; so he serves 2 years less the time he already served, and it's in the County Jail, his own cell.

Nonetheless, it won't be fun.

I wonder if he'll end up out even earlier.

That is true...thanks to California's biggest industry, its prisons, being overcrowded. I'm not sure why he gets to serve in LA County instead of State Prison [[where the overcrowding wouldn't result in him being let go after a brief 2 years). The Judge was angry about that, but his hands were tied. I was impressed that at least he got the maximum sentence, and a very strong condemnation by the Court for his reckless [[and remorseless) behavior.

[amanda]

The purpose of law is to put our society in order. I saw the picture of this doctor in many website while facing trial. I can say that I feel some pity for the doctor. Who would want to be imprisoned anyway? However, no one is above the law that is why when a person commits a crime, it is a just for him to be punished. Now, some of us would think that Dr. Conrad Murray was guilty of medical malpractice. Instead he was convicted of involuntary manslaughter for the singer's death.

Medical malpractice is a kind of lawsuit that is very challenging aside from the fact that this is very costly. The burden of proof lies to the victim to prove that the doctor has deviated from the medical standards. The so-called "deviation" which caused injury is the basis for malpractice. It is also debatable in this case if the doctor should also be expose criminal penalties. For more information about how to know if you can sue or not you should check out this article from Mr. Haskell a famous lawyer in Spokane WA who has won many many million dollar cases. http://haskellaw.com/article-medical-mistakes-a-primer-on-the-basics-of-medical-malpractice-4

Doctors must be equipped with enough knowledge and training and they must execute their job with due care for them to prevent mistakes. A single mistake could result to death of a certain patient.

Indeed, not all allegations for medical malpractice are easy to prove. There are some legal aspects that we need to consider for a person to become guilty of medical malpractice.