Where Did Our Love Go background vocals

[pj1]

All the discussions about Mary & Flo/ Mary & Marlene/ the Andantes in the background of Supreme singles led me back to the excellent Singing Machine/Motown karaoke cd's. Listening carefully with really good headphones, I was surprised to hear Flo in the background of "Where Did Our Love Go" - but it wasn't what I expected.
Flo's voice is definitely discernable on 1 word.
In the refrain 'baby, baby.....baby, baby.... ooh baby baby, Flo's voice is clearly heard on the last set of baby baby's. But it sounds as if she's singing against/counter to Mary's baby baby for she sings only 1 extended 'baby' [bay-ay-be] after the 'ooh'.
Mention has been made by HDH that originally, they had written a much more complex set of background vocals but they just weren't working out [[Mary & Flo couldn't get it together as they envisioned).
HDH then simplified the background vocals.
I wonder... might Flo's solitary 'baby' have been saved from the earlier attempted backgrounds, salvaged and punched in at the appropriate spot?
George or Andy? Any thoughts?

[marv2]

The truth is they probably didn't want to get it together. They really hated that song! LOL!

I have never heard Flo's voice on that record once in the 47 years since it's release! I'll take your word for it as I have others that she is on it somewhere.

[jobeterob]

Where Did Our Love Go is almost my favorite Supremes song and it doesn't wear on me; Baby Love now sounds very teeny bopperish but not Where Did Our Love Go.

Who knows if the background is fluffed up with anyone else, but I've always been sure that Flo and Mary were there; Flo was always pretty clear to me.

But your question warrants going and listening to it again.

[marv2]

Where Did Our Love Go is almost my favorite Supremes song and it doesn't wear on me; Baby Love now sounds very teeny bopperish but not Where Did Our Love Go.

Who knows if the background is fluffed up with anyone else, but I've always been sure that Flo and Mary were there; Flo was always pretty clear to me.

But your question warrants going and listening to it again.

Forget any talk of anyone else being on "Where Did Our Love Go?" It is beyond clear that it is Mary Wilson and Diana Ross. What has never been clear is Florence voice being on that recording. It has a very sparse background and instrumental accompaniment. So where could the other "voices" even be? LOL!!! I don't even hear three voices on that song.

[jobeterob]

From The Complete Motown Singles:

"But according to legend, the Marvelettes didn't want WDOLG; they preferred Too Many Fish in the Sea. Mr. Gordy suggested HDH offer it to the Supremes. "It needed a subtle lead," says Supreme Mary Wilson, "and since that was my forte and I'd been doing ballads for as long as we'd been together, I was certain it would be given to me. I later learned that Eddie Holland wanted me to sing it, but that his partners had convinced him that Diane had the more commercial sound and, besides, wasn't she the lead singer?"

"It was a different approach, to bring it out of Diana Ross," Dozier recalls, "cause I hated her voice up in the sky on a lot of those songs. It was whiny to me. It didn't have enough substance. This partcular song was in Gladys Horton's key. I envisioned it low and sexy, like a Juile London kind of voice. So we tried that approach with Diana, bringing her off those high notes, and bring her down to this little sultry thing.

"Diana could adapt. She was always good at it. And she got it right there, although they hated the song themselves - mainly because I guess the few people we had played the song to, like the Marvelettes, were trying to discourage them from doing anything."

And so Diana wound up singing lead in a key ill-suited to her, on a song none of the girls really wanted to do, and it changed the fortunes of Motown and the Supremes forever.

Odd, but I hear Mary more clearly on this song than Flo; that's unusual. And I dont hear any fluffing up with Andantes; it seems pretty clean.

[marv2]

Here's the song again:


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vYc46QPPoxw

[marv2]

From The Complete Motown Singles:

"But according to legend, the Marvelettes didn't want WDOLG; they preferred Too Many Fish in the Sea. Mr. Gordy suggested HDH offer it to the Supremes. "It needed a subtle lead," says Supreme Mary Wilson, "and since that was my forte and I'd been doing ballads for as long as we'd been together, I was certain it would be given to me. I later learned that Eddie Holland wanted me to sing it, but that his partners had convinced him that Diane had the more commercial sound and, besides, wasn't she the lead singer?"

"It was a different approach, to bring it out of Diana Ross," Dozier recalls, "cause I hated her voice up in the sky on a lot of those songs. It was whiny to me. It didn't have enough substance. This partcular song was in Gladys Horton's key. I envisioned it low and sexy, like a Juile London kind of voice. So we tried that approach with Diana, bringing her off those high notes, and bring her down to this little sultry thing.

"Diana could adapt. She was always good at it. And she got it right there, although they hated the song themselves - mainly because I guess the few people we had played the song to, like the Marvelettes, were trying to discourage them from doing anything."

And so Diana wound up singing lead in a key ill-suited to her, on a song none of the girls really wanted to do, and it changed the fortunes of Motown and the Supremes forever.

Odd, but I hear Mary more clearly on this song than Flo; that's unusual. And I dont hear any fluffing up with Andantes; it seems pretty clean.

Andantes, what Andantes? They were not every record made by Motown!

[BayouMotownMan]

It's clearly Mary and Flo on the background, remember, they were instructed to sing in soft voices. It was a delicate song.

This is one of the reason WDOLG never sounded good live to me. The ladies sang in their true voices on stage so it lacks a lot. I think for this reason, WDOLG was taken out of the act fairly early on, before the name change occurred.

[marv2]

It's clearly Mary and Flo on the background, remember, they were instructed to sing in soft voices. It was a delicate song.

This is one of the reason WDOLG never sounded good live to me. The ladies sang in their true voices on stage so it lacks a lot. I think for this reason, WDOLG was taken out of the act fairly early on, before the name change occurred.

It is NOT clearly Mary and Florence on that record. You saw what the guy that started this thread said he had to go through to even hear any of Florence faintly doing baby-baby somewhere in the record. When that single came out and when it was played on the radio then and now, you do not hear Florence Ballard!

[marv2]

Maybe Florence is there helping Mike Valvano do the foot stomps, hehehehehehe....!!!!!

[stopinthenameoflove]

From The Complete Motown Singles:

"But according to legend, the Marvelettes didn't want WDOLG; they preferred Too Many Fish in the Sea. .

slightly off topic and I do apologise - but I do think Too Many Fish In The Sea is the better song!

[Laurel]

I just like the song, to me it's about the heartache when your first love comes to an end. Does it really matter who sang on the background?

[Roberta75]

I just like the song, to me it's about the heartache when your first love comes to an end. Does it really matter who sang on the background?

To the general public i would say no Laurel. To some die hard Supremes fans, yes. And there is nothing wrong with that.

BTW, My favorite Supremes song is My World is Empty Without You.

Have a lovely Sunday evening.

Roberta

[rod_rick]

It is NOT clearly Mary and Florence on that record. You saw what the guy that started this thread said he had to go through to even hear any of Florence faintly doing baby-baby somewhere in the record. When that single came out and when it was played on the radio then and now, you do not hear Florence Ballard!

FYI if you really listen to the singing machine version [[of which I have) the background vocals are looped. Meaning using a computer, they took one segment of the background vocals and used it for entire song. Florence is on that recording I've always known that. She is really faint, but she is there. Mary is right on the mic and I'm sure Florence is standing a few feet away. Florence is an echo but she's there.

[jobeterob]

That makes sense to me Rod. Thanks for the information.

[marv2]

FYI if you really listen to the singing machine version [[of which I have) the background vocals are looped. Meaning using a computer, they took one segment of the background vocals and used it for entire song. Florence is on that recording I've always known that. She is really faint, but she is there. Mary is right on the mic and I'm sure Florence is standing a few feet away. Florence is an echo but she's there.

Rod, thanks. I don't know how old you are ,but I am old enough to remember this song and how it was heard by the public back in the 60's on car radios, transistor radios and home record players. We did not have this specialized equipment or even the time to listen that closely to try to pick out Florence Ballards' inaudible vocals! Like I said if she is on that record, I have not been able to hear her voice in the 47 years and from hearing the record dozens of times. I did not say that she is not on there, I am saying that you cannot hear her outside of a specially equipped laboratory! hehehehehehe!!!!

I provided a clip of the song above. I listened to it 3 times this afternoon and I still cannot hear anyone other than Mary Wilson and Diana Ross. No big deal it's just one more thing to talk about I guess?

[luke]

Have always said it sounds like a duet to me-Mary and Diana! And remember Eddie wanted Mary to sing lead so maybe they compromised!!

[marv2]

Have always said it sounds like a duet to me-Mary and Diana! And remember Eddie wanted Mary to sing lead so maybe they compromised!!

Now that makes sense and it solved the problem perfectly.

[Penny]

All I know is that it is a great song and I love it today as much as when I first heard it.

Penny

[dianesfan_1965]

I just like the song, to me it's about the heartache when your first love comes to an end. Does it really matter who sang on the background?

You'll find that SOME people can get a bee in their bonnets over anything around here, hon.

[dianesfan_1965]

All I know is that it is a great song and I love it today as much as when I first heard it.

Penny

Puts a little pep in your step while schlepping that Avon around, Penny?

[Penny]

dianesfan_1965-

Yes it does.

Penny

[marv2]

dianesfan_1965-

Yes it does.

Penny

Yeah, but that doesn't have anything to do with the initial question posed in this thread!

[Roberta75]

Yeah, but that doesn't have anything to do with the initial question posed in this thread!

So what? Her answer was harmless and non offensive.

[marv2]

So what? Her answer was harmless and non offensive.


So how about trying to stick to the subject of the thread? That is about as harmless and respectful as you can be towards the author of the thread and other forum members. When you say things like she did, regardless of how meek, it is dismissive of the threads' subject and the discussion taking place by forum members.

[Penny]

So how about trying to stick to the subject of the thread? That is about as harmless and respectful as you can be towards the author of the thread and other forum members. When you say things like she did, regardless of how meek, it is dismissive of the threads' subject and the discussion taking place by forum members.

I didn't realize I had to answer to Marv2 on this thread or on this site. I ignore him because of the person he is and how he conducts himself here. He causes more fights and I just don't get it or him. I have read there is an ignore button somewhere here but I can't find it.

Marv2 mind your own business.

Penny

[luke]

Well said Marv!!

[marv2]

I didn't realize I had to answer to Marv2 on this thread or on this site. I ignore him because of the person he is and how he conducts himself here. He causes more fights and I just don't get it or him. I have read there is an ignore button somewhere here but I can't find it.

Marv2 mind your own business.


Penny

If it is on this public forum, of which I am a member, it inadvertently is my business as it is all forum members. You don't have to answer to me, but you do or should be respectful of others here. It is just good manners and a best practice.

[marv2]

Well said Marv!!

Why thank you Luke!

[Roberta75]

I didn't realize I had to answer to Marv2 on this thread or on this site. I ignore him because of the person he is and how he conducts himself here. He causes more fights and I just don't get it or him. I have read there is an ignore button somewhere here but I can't find it.

Marv2 mind your own business.

Penny

Well said Penny!!

[Roberta75]

So how about trying to stick to the subject of the thread? That is about as harmless and respectful as you can be towards the author of the thread and other forum members. When you say things like she did, regardless of how meek, it is dismissive of the threads' subject and the discussion taking place by forum members.

Last I checked Ralph is the moderator of this forum. Not you.

[marv2]

Last I checked Ralph is the moderator of this forum. Not you.

I can see you are still clucking for a fight. Simply read post #28 in this thread. Take care now.

[jobeterob]

Penny, could you post your price list on this thread?

You never know who might buy what for whom!

[Roberta75]

I can see you are still clucking for a fight. Simply read post #28 in this thread. Take care now.

Not with you I'm not. You've had my energy for November Detroitlives313.

[jobeterob]

Penny, could you post your price list on this thread?

You never know who might buy what for whom!

[marv2]

Penny, could you post your price list on this thread?

You never know who might buy what for whom!

Jobeterob wouldn't that be more appropriate via private message or in the Promotional Thread that Ralph went through the trouble of starting on the Main Forum?

[marv2]

Not with you I'm not. You've had my energy for November Detroitlives313.

Well then stop talking back! LOL!

[dianesfan_1965]

Penny, could you post your price list on this thread?

You never know who might buy what for whom!

Yeah, send me a message Penny. My hoofs needs some foot care.

[Laurel]

I want to say I'm sorry to the Forum. A few days ago I wrote that I liked that song and didn't stay on the topic. I never really listen much to those things before. I just enjoy the music and the beat and listen to the words. But I want to learn because there are a lot of smart people who know a LOT about Motown. Wow! So, how can I tell Mary's voice from Flo's voice? What Supremes songs can I hear Mary on the background and songs where I can hear Flo in the background?

[franjoy56]

Florence Ballard is the high soprano on most of the supremes backing tracks, Mary is the alto on most of the backing tracks

Mary can be heard on "Where did our love go" "Love is in Our Hearts" "Misery Makes my heart its home"

Florence Ballard can be more audibly heard on just about anything that had a high vocal such as "Penny Pincher"

"Come See About Me" "Baby Love" "Mary and Flo" audibly equal "Back in My Arms Again" "Stop In The Name of Love"

its said Marlene Barrow one of the Andantes [[& Mary) was substituted for Florence Ballard on "YOu Can't Hurry Love"

Most of the Bit of Liverpool Alblum feature Flo and Mary on high pitch [[Flo)"House of the Rising Sun" alto pitch [[Mary) "Because". You have to have studied the Supremes for years to know who is who but in time you will get it.

When the Andantes started backing the Sup's the backgrounds get complicated they had a gospel blending technique that gets easy to pick out Post reflections and son on

[franjoy56]

Supremes Sing Holland Dozier Holland

Flo more audibly louder" Going Down for the Third Time
Mother You, Smother You

Supremes A Go Go

Mary "Get Read" Flo Baby I need your Loving

Mary Come and Get these memories [[Lead)

Supremes Sing Sam Cooke

Flo "Ain't That Good News"

Where Did our Love Go Albums

Mary start of "Long Gone Love,, Flo conclusion of "Long Gone Lover

Diana lead through the middle.

Country Western Pop: Mary lead, Flo Lead, Diana lead in that order :"It Make no difference now"

Mary, Diana lead Mary 1st verse Diana verse 2 "Sunset"

Flo, Diana in unison "The man with the rock and roll banjo band."

Flo ""You Keep Me Hangin' ON & Love Is here, now your gone.

[marv2]

One of the best examples of what Fran explained is "Come See About Me" in my opinion.

[franjoy56]

A great example of an Andante backed track in the early Supremes years was "Baby Doll" on CWP album 1963

"My Heart Can't Take it no more "Mary and Flo get a solo line "hurting me" Hurting me"
A Breath taking Guy Mary & Flo get solo lines Flo 1st Mary 2nd.

"I hear a Symphony" LP Stereo version of "Stranger in Paradise "Flo vocals added in on the mono it is deleted.
"Any Girl In Love" Flo background top backing vocal. Mary's vocals usually get lost in Flo's soprano except in rare cases.

[jobeterob]

One of the best examples of Flo Ballard's voice is the near duet section of the song Manhattan with Diana. That is how Flo should have been recorded but never was as a solo singer. I'm not sure if Mary is on the song or if you just can't hear her.

A really horrible example of a song with the Andantes on is Run Run Run; probably both Mary and Flo would rather not be remembered for being on it if they are and Diana probably wishes they gave that song to the Marvelettes.

[marv2]

One of the best examples of Flo Ballard's voice is the near duet section of the song Manhattan with Diana. That is how Flo should have been recorded but never was as a solo singer. I'm not sure if Mary is on the song or if you just can't hear her.

A really horrible example of a song with the Andantes on is Run Run Run; probably both Mary and Flo would rather not be remembered for being on it if they are and Diana probably wishes they gave that song to the Marvelettes.

Mary and Florence are on "Run,Run, Run". It sounded better without the Andantes when they sang it in the "T.A.M.I. Show".

[captainjames]

How odd about WDOLG~~
It was this song that Flo would always say was her favorite. I wonder why it would be her favorite if she couldn't hear herself on it. How odd.

[uptight]

Great job, Fran. Sorry to get off topic, but I think it's only the Andantes backing "Any Girl In Love," not Flo. Many of the harmonies on the records were left up to the Andantes.

[marv2]

How odd about WDOLG~~
It was this song that Flo would always say was her favorite. I wonder why it would be her favorite if she couldn't hear herself on it. How odd.


Maybe she didn't have a big, nasty ego?

[luke]

LOLOL-again well said Marv--and bittersweet.

[smark21]

Don't forget, Flo's voice may not be present on the recording, but she certainly performed the song quite a bit until it was taken out of the act so she could have come to really enjoy the song.

[BayouMotownMan]

On Run, Run, Run it is Eddie Holland on backing vocals with Mary and Flo

[jobeterob]

No Andantes, at all???!!

[marv2]

No Andantes, at all???!!


Do they have a website or something? I mean the Andantes?

[dianesfan_1965]

On Run, Run, Run it is Eddie Holland on backing vocals with Mary and Flo


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BbFDVWofYW4

I love the piano on this song.

[BayouMotownMan]

No, the Andantes, I don't think were formed yet when Run, Run, Run was recorded, which was earlier in 1963. Actually, you can hear Eddie Holland on several Supremes tracks. Listen to You're Gone [[But Always In My Heart), Lovelight In His Eyes [[as I recall HDH were all three on that) and especially I'm In Love Again from More Hits. Eddie is very vocal on that one as he is on Send Me No Flowers.

Eddie Holland loved chorale effects, which is why he overlaid the Andantes on all the Four Tops recordings they did. Those harmonies on the Tops tracks are absolutely stunning. All three men, HDH, had great singing voices, it's a shame they didn't go after their own successes...though Lamont certainly had his share of hits.

[BayouMotownMan]

I agree with Dianesfan, that one note piano on Run is outstanding. Whoever that was, I bet his fingers were sore after laying that track down. It's dizzying just listening to it. This could be why the song didn't do so well, it was a little frenetic for it's time. Lovelight was upbeat but not quite as "busy" behind Ross's vocal. I must say Ross, albeit nasal, did a great vocal on this but I'd have to wonder how Flo would have done it.

[randy_russi]

I think it was WAY over exagerated that they didn't like the song. And, yes, I heard Flo say this was her favorite of
their hits.

[jobeterob]

Exagerated like everything about the Supremes and Diana Ross.......big as the Ross hair.

[BayouMotownMan]

Well, I don't recall Flo ever saying she didn't like WDOLG, but Diana and especially Mary have said it in the past.

Eddie Holland made their disdain clear in ETH, Diana grugingly recorded it.

Remember, when the artist did the recordings, they were not listening to the full track that the public eventually heard. Some times the full instrumental track was not recorded yet. In their headsets were sparse arrangements, maybe a piano and drum to keep the timing with the producer usually singing along with them. If you listen to the stereo mix of WDOLG it is significantly watered down from the hit mono version. The piano is rather monotonous and only one set of thunderclaps rather than the 2/4 over the 4/4 on the hit single. This is another reason why WDOLG suffered in concert performances...it was so simple it was boring. The hit recorded version with the thunderclaps and bass made it explosive.

[jobeterob]

I totally agree; the live performances you see on Youtube usually sound tinny, simple; nothing compared to the recording.

[franjoy56]

The Andantes may be on the record with the harmonies, but I clearly hear Flo with
the repeat refrains "Any Girl in Lovvvvve" over and over,




Great job, Fran. Sorry to get off topic, but I think it's only the Andantes backing "Any Girl In Love," not Flo. Many of the harmonies on the records were left up to the Andantes.

[franjoy56]

I think Flo may have been referring to the album wdolg, because on Unsung she say
humm we don't like this record, on the ed sullivan show she cites it as her favorite,
but I think she should have said "Come See About Me" because she really comes through on that one whether berry like it or not.



How odd about WDOLG~~
It was this song that Flo would always say was her favorite. I wonder why it would be her favorite if she couldn't hear herself on it. How odd.

[franjoy56]

Not only do I hear Flo on the refrains of "Any Girl in Loooveee" but also "makes me cry sometimmmess with Mary
The bkgnds of the Andantes make the track flawless no doubt, but i beleive Flo and Mary could have done just as well on their own. Those tracks with Flo and Mary have a better Supremes sound like Come See About me, Back in my Arms AGain, The happening, Love is like an itching, Baby Love, I hear a symphony.

[marv2]

Not only do I hear Flo on the refrains of "Any Girl in Loooveee" but also "makes me cry sometimmmess with Mary
The bkgnds of the Andantes make the track flawless no doubt, but i beleive Flo and Mary could have done just as well on their own. Those tracks with Flo and Mary have a better Supremes sound like Come See About me, Back in my Arms AGain, The happening, Love is like an itching, Baby Love, I hear a symphony.

I agree. Listen to how flawless Mary, Flo and Diane all sound together on "A Breathtaking Guy"!

Fran, are you in Brooklyn?

[jobeterob]

There you go, one upping again. Andy said if you are Berry, Mary or Smokey, it's Diane; to earthlings, mortals, non fans, it's Diana!

[motony]

I've heard Diana Ross many times in '64/'65 refer to herself onstage in public as Diane Ross, also on Copa LP she does.

[florence]

I know Mary and Cindy were on the collaborations with the Temptations but what in fact was the first single to feature Diana with backing singers?

I was reading that Love Child was Diana with the Andantes - I thought it hadn't started until after that.

[smark21]

I know Mary and Cindy were on the collaborations with the Temptations but what in fact was the first single to feature Diana with backing singers?

I was reading that Love Child was Diana with the Andantes - I thought it hadn't started until after that.

According to the DRATS 50th Anniversary Singles set that was released, Stop in the Name of Love was the first single to feature only The Andantes behind Diana.

Changing focus, a bit, but on The Marvelettes' version of I Want a Guy, it sounds like it's the Andantes only behind Wanda's lead. That song was recorded in late 61.

[Jimi LaLumia]

so as early as "Stop.." we were basically buying Diana Ross records, and the girls were primarily important for 'live' shows and tv...wow...no wonder Ross was always saying that she did all the work, etc..obviously she was refering to the studio work

[captainjames]

This would be true