Sales Figures for the 70's Supremes, without Diana Ross

[jobeterob]

From the website Florence referred to previously:


# Artist Album Sales
1 The Supremes [[without Diana Ross) Right On 400,000
2 The Supremes [[without Diana Ross) New Ways But Love Stays 350,000
3 The Supremes [[without Diana Ross) High Energy 250,000
4 The Supremes [[without Diana Ross) Floy Joy 200,000
5 The Supremes [[without Diana Ross) The Supremes Produced and Arranged by Jimmy Webb 200,000
6 The Supremes [[without Diana Ross) Touch 200,000
7 The Supremes [[without Diana Ross) Supremes 150,000

Total 1750000

[helga]

My question is: Where are these sales figures coming from? Is someone pulling them out of the air or have they been verified by the RIAA?

[copley]

The word I would use to describe this site is 'PANTS'! It's complete rubbish. 'Touch' is supposed to have sold 20k in the UK - not!!!! Don't waste your time with it.


http://fanofmusic.free.fr/ajax.php?m=Charts&s=BestSellers&p=BestSellers&Act=212

[jobeterob]

These figures are not verified by the RIAA, which is American to start with. And games were played with the RIAA; games that are now well known. It is known that for Michael Jackson and Whitney Houston releases in the 90's, after their peak popularity, that the record companies shipped masses of CDS, and many masses were returned. And RIAA certifications were based on "shipments". So, there are questions about the manipulations that occurred there. So the certifications are vastly higher than the actual sales.

And Motown never belonged to the RIAA.

Perhaps this site is no better than Randy Tarraborelli's estimates; it is a site that Florence found and refers to in the other thread.

Maybe only Berry knows; and maybe even Berry doesn't know. He just knows how much money he pocketed! And at a minimum, we know Diana, Jean, Gladys, Martha and a few others questioned how much they didn't get.

[copley]

Maybe only Berry knows; and maybe even Berry doesn't know. He just knows how much money he pocketed! And at a minimum, we know Diana, Jean, Gladys, Martha and a few others questioned how much they didn't get.

That last sentence speaks volumes, begs to be raised with BG and honestly answered but it never will :[[

[jobeterob]

If you are right Copley, then we have a man that appears before us from time to time, at tributes and celebrations, in some pretty ostentatious circumstances, very celebrated, now very venerated by some of the artists that say he or Motown stole from them ~ and he might be a thief! Or at least dishonest.

Stranger things have happened but the words George Bush come to mind.

Maybe this is why they are having those protests in the USA now.

[kenneth]

Stranger things have happened but the words George Bush come to mind.

Maybe this is why they are having those protests in the USA now.

The connection escapes me...

[Jimi LaLumia]

welcome to the record business!!

[jillfoster]

Those figures don't sound too off the mark. not for worldwide sales. You must keep in mind, those numbers would be including not just the United States and the UK... but Japan, Australia, Canada, Germany, Holland, all other European countries.... and there are sales frm Mexico and South America as well. Apparently, they even sold Supremes records in Israel! It's like when you go to the store and get a little of this and a little of that and you get to the checkout and your'e like.... it adds up to HOW MUCH???!!! Same principal.

[ajk93]

The connection escapes me...

My thoughts too Kenneth. If we wanna all make the forum a better place, we should leave
political comments to another section of the forum.

Thanks Jobeterob for posting at least some sort of guideline. It seems for the 70's Supremes
we have even less to guess from. I still think these are highly understated though.

[motony]

I don't think those figures seem too out of line except I do not think Touch or High Energy sold quite that much as stated.Thats LP sales not 45's & 60's to atleast mid 70's the 45 was King.

[redlabs]

maybe i am wrong but it sometimes seems as if people dont believe what the supremes sales might be? is it just the supremes or any motown artists,...i saw an interview with one of the tempts[otis] a while back with all his gold albums on the wall but i dont hear anyone disputing the Tempts sales?
maybe it is my perception.

[reese]

maybe i am wrong but it sometimes seems as if people dont believe what the supremes sales might be? is it just the supremes or any motown artists,...i saw an interview with one of the tempts[otis] a while back with all his gold albums on the wall but i dont hear anyone disputing the Tempts sales?
maybe it is my perception.

I don't necessarily think it is that people don't believe that the Supremes sold a lot of records. However, since Motown was not a member of the RIAA during its heyday, and accounting records from that time don't seem to have survived, people are going to question sales info.

Not just for the Supremes or any other Motown artists. But also artists from labels like King and Philles, who weren't members of the RIAA either. In America, unless it was awarded by the RIAA, a gold or platinum record on the wall doesn't necessarily mean the record sold enough to actually warrant it.

I don't know if there are similar organizations that do certifications in foreign countries. I remember seeing a photo of the Supremes posing with a silver disk award for 250,000 UK sales of WHERE DID OUR LOVE GO, and it was awarded to them by DISC magazine.

[marv2]

My question is: Where are these sales figures coming from? Is someone pulling them out of the air or have they been verified by the RIAA?


That was the first thing I thought Helga! Where does this stuff come from because the person that put it on that website does not cite any references for these figures whatsoever.

[marv2]

The connection escapes me...

I am too am totally confused by what he just said. I also take issue with Jobeterob for inferring that Berry Gordy Jr. was a thief! Where do you get off?

Marv

[florence]

That was the first thing I thought Helga! Where does this stuff come from because the person that put it on that website does not cite any references for these figures whatsoever.

As explained in a previous post those are his estimates based ona lot of different info he gathers from around t he wrold.

You can choose whether to believe them or not - personally I think they're pretty good based on the fact that the UK ones seem mostly fine.

[marv2]

As explained in a previous post those are his estimates based ona lot of different info he gathers from around t he wrold.

You can choose whether to believe them or not - personally I think they're pretty good based on the fact that the UK ones seem mostly fine.

Thank you Florence for sharing this information. It was interesting. I do not believe any of it however. He is talking purely numbers and that tells me that there should be substantial sources for them to present them the way he did.

Marv

[redlabs]

did this website have sales for the 70's singles?

[jobeterob]

No singles that I see.

[BayouMotownMan]

Virtually every Motown artist that I have spoken to has claimed that Berry Gordy ripped them off. I am not saying it's true, but you have to wonder since overwhelmingly, there have been untold lawsuits that have since had to be settled usually out of court to shut them up. On another level, when the artists signed contracts, most were so happy to be just in the business that they didn't understand the dynamic of the contracts they signed. Basically, they paid for their recording sessions, and everything to do with establishing them as entertainers was charged against the royalties earned. Curiously, even though they paid for their own recordings, Motown owned the masters instead of the artist, and in many cases they even owned the group name. The Jackson 5 came to Motown with that name...yet when they signed their contracts they didn't realize they were signing ownership of that name over to Motown and Berry Gordy. Many times at the contract signings Motown had their attorney present and assigned an attorney of their chosing to represent the prospective artist. Hence, Motown was negotiating with themselves on behalf of that artist.

Gordy sued Randy Taraborrelli shortly after the issuance of Call Her Miss Ross. In court Randy proved that there were irregularities in Motown's accounting. For instance, when the Supremes covered Whisper You Love Me Boy, He Holds His Own and Honey Boy, the same instrumental track was used that was paid for by Mary Wells. Therefore the Supremes paid for something that had already been paid for, but Miss Wells was not reimbursed by any percentage. It was proven therefore that Motown was making money off the artists in these instances. Randy won the lawsuit. Afterward Mr. Gordy shook his hand and seemed surprised by this information.

I think it can be safely assumed that Mr. Gordy was letting others do the accounting after a certain point in the early 60s, likely someone in his own family. He was a very artistic and hands on person who depended on others to handle the business-end of things as Motown grew. Whether these things happened deliberately or simply miscalculations from a small company doing everything manually will never be known. Artists like Gladys Knight and Jean Terrell have shown odd charges on their royalty statements against future commissions. Things that the artist either never approved and/or didn't know anything about.

Overall, I'd say what they got from Motown was enormous in terms of artist development, elocution, stage etiquette etc. Motown may well have been the last entertainment company that groomed an entertainer in all facets of their craft. Martha Reeves has said that although she was grateful for this, she still wishes she had had more business sense at the time to monitor her own income situation. For instance, Mary Wells left Motown at the height of her career with a No. 1 record, a string of chart successes and a successful dueting with Marvin Gaye. Yet, when she left Motown she was told she owed them money. There were scores of unreleased recordings that she had to pay for, but for the success she had achieved there should have been some money ahead of her.

[copley]

As explained in a previous post those are his estimates based ona lot of different info he gathers from around t he wrold.

You can choose whether to believe them or not - personally I think they're pretty good based on the fact that the UK ones seem mostly fine.

I have to strongly disagree Florence, the UK figures are mainly rubbish!

[BayouMotownMan]

Well an album still continues to sell once it drops off the charts, albeit in smaller numbers. I would think an entry like the first double Greatest Hit package probably still sells 50K a year thanks to oldies radio and movie usage.

In Jean's case, only the Right On album was a big seller, Floy Joy a moderate success. The other albums didn't do so much...I don't think Motown lost money on them [[except for possibly the Jim Webb set because it was a more expensive project) but there was no windfall like record companies like to see. Jean's albums were all still available in record stores as current catalog with the exception of New Ways and Magnificent 7 at the time of her departure. By the time Mary re-formed the group, only the first Greatest Hits package was still being serviced to record stores.

[jobeterob]

I do agree with Rick's post nearly on all points. Most of these artists would have done anything, signed anything, to have a record contract, to have a chance, to be at Motown.

But they had no idea what their costs were, what their costs would be. They were taken by surprise at having to pay guitarists, Billboard ads, sessions, promotion, etc. But they probably also got alot more out of Motown than they would have gotten out of record companies in the 1950's.

I heard an interview on CBC Radio a few weeks back complaining that the era of a record company helping an artist is gone ~ they get nothing ~ they are all on their own now. And the refrain was "there is no Berry Gordy anymore".

I also think it is telling that some of those that complained about Berry.................from Diana Ross to Marvin Gaye to Stevie Wonder, down the line to the minor artists like Jean Terrell, Mary Wells, Mary Wilson, Martha Reeves.............they all sing or sang his praises publicly whenever they had the chance.

Ironic, I don't think we ever heard of Michael Jackson complaining about Berry.

[kenneth]

I also think it is telling that some of those that complained about Berry.................from Diana Ross to Marvin Gaye to Stevie Wonder, down the line to the minor artists like Jean Terrell, Mary Wells, Mary Wilson, Martha Reeves.............they all sing or sang his praises publicly whenever they had the chance.

Ironic, I don't think we ever heard of Michael Jackson complaining about Berry.

Was the object of this post so you could refer to Terrell, Wells, Wilson and Reeves as "minor artists?" It seems so. None were as famous as Ross, Gaye or Wonder, but I hardly think they were considered to be minor players at Motown, then or even now.

[jobeterob]

No, but don't you think it is noteworthy that the biggest complaints come from the less successful artists? And then as time goes on and they age, everybody says he was quite close to saintly.

[kenneth]

No, but don't you think it is noteworthy that the biggest complaints come from the less successful artists? And then as time goes on and they age, everybody says he was quite close to saintly.

That's a different question, but 3 of the 4 people you name [[Wilson, Reeves, Terrell) were in groups which are in the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame, and Wells was the label's first breakout artist who even toured with the Beatles, so I don't think they deserve to be referred to as "minor" artists.

[Penny]

Kenneth, I do not believe that Jean Terrell was inducted into the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame. Reeves was as was Wilson but not Jean unless it was with her brother's group.

[kenneth]

Kenneth, I do not believe that Jean Terrell was inducted into the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame. Reeves was as was Wilson but not Jean unless it was with her brother's group.

Penny, you are correct and I wasn't saying that. Just that the groups were both inducted. No Jean was not part of that ceremony. Kenneth

[helga]

No, but don't you think it is noteworthy that the biggest complaints come from the less successful artists? And then as time goes on and they age, everybody says he was quite close to saintly.

That can be said for any type of situation, including those that arise between co-workers at an office and a boss. Those employees who are favored by a boss are going to have more positive things to say about a boss than those employees who are not a part of the inner circle. A boss could be a total wacko, but those who get the promotions are always going to love him more than those who do not. You see the world differently when you're looking at the view from the top of the tower versus those who are at the bottom. The people at the bottom of the tower smell the stank coming from the village and the people at the top smell the fresh air. Artists like Diane and Smokey were part of Berry's inner circle.

[jillfoster]

That can be said for any type of situation, including those that arise between co-workers at an office and a boss. Those employees who are favored by a boss are going to have more positive things to say about a boss than those employees who are not a part of the inner circle. A boss could be a total wacko, but those who get the promotions are always going to love him more than those who do not. You see the world differently when you're looking at the view from the top of the tower versus those who are at the bottom. The people at the bottom of the tower smell the stank coming from the village and the people at the top smell the fresh air. Artists like Diane and Smokey were part of Berry's inner circle.

Helga... that is so true, and put perfectly. There was also a certain amount of trust involved there, as Mary once said, "We were black people.... black company... we felt very safe, and that was our first mistake."

[jobeterob]

But why do you think all of these people, whatever their position at Motown.........how come they now only talk so glowingly of Berry? It is all about what he did for them and what he created and how great he was. What's different?

I didn't know there was an actual court case between Gordy and Taraborelli. Are we talking filed documents or just threats? I thought there were only threats and perhaps some amended pages in the book. And you generally read that none of the suits that were initiated ever amounted to a judgment in favour of the plaintiff. One way or another, they were all settled and it often seemed that even after the settlement, there were further complaints from the plaintiffs.........as in, well they bought me off with a contract, the career went nowhere and they dumped me.

Also, don't get me wrong.........in their heyday, Mary Wells, Jean Terrell and the Supremes and various other groups like the Contours and Miracles and Pips and the Vandellas had huge followings and were on all the TV shows; but we are now talking two generations back for many of these artists; and while, we, the fans know them and love them..............young people don't know who they are. I have two sons in their twenties and one of them loves the Temptations ~ but only because of me. He came to see them with me in Vancouver a couple years ago. But hardly any of their friends know the groups, the Supremes, the Temptations, the Miracles and a lot less know the Marvelettes and the Vandellas. They might know them as an oldies group; but you are more likely to draw a fairly blank stare. And it's not much more than that.

[BobC]

I sincerely doubt Berry would have sued Randy if he was aware of these "inaccuracies." He isn't stupid. The truth is that most of the Motown artists from the 60's signed contracts that had very low royalty rates, and as Rick already said, the artists were charged back for everything from promotion to studio time to unreleased material. Also Motown had tons of trouble getting paid by distributors, so the unpredictable cash flow probably added yet another layer to the accounting chaos. None of the artists questioned the contracts as long as the money was rolling in, but as soon as a dry spell came about, suddenly everybody was complaining. I noticed in an interview years ago that Mary Wilson clarified what she wrote in Dreamgirl regarding how little money she had from the Supremes heyday--she was very careful to mention that she HAD signed the contract she was complaining about. So, obviously somebody along the line pointed out to Mary that in the end it was her fault for signing a sub-par contract. Kind of like the people who didn't bother to read or understand the adjustable interest rates on mortgages they signed in the 90's, resulting in the economic chaos we are enduring today. Everybody wants to blame Berry Gordy, or banks, or Wall Street, or the tooth fairy, but grown-ups understand that you must understand a contract before you sign it. It is that simple.

Michael Jackson, to the best of my knowledge, never complained about the money he was making at Motown, but did complain that Motown was ruining the group when they hit a slow period in the early 70's.It was he who approached Berry about leaving the label but keeping the name Jackson 5, which Berry wouldn't allow. That's how the Jackson 5 became the Jacksons at their next label. I can kind of recall this period as a kid, and remember thinking they were smart to change their name since they were no longer a teenybopper group, and everyone knew who they were anyway. I am not so sure that the Supremes could have successfully changed to a different name, mostly because people didn't know the individual members anymore. Anything's possible--but I'm doubtful.

[carlo]

But why do you think all of these people, whatever their position at Motown.........how come they now only talk so glowingly of Berry? It is all about what he did for them and what he created and how great he was. What's different?

Who are you referring to? A good number of the artists who used to complain about Berry Gordy are no longer living: Florence Ballard, Gladys Horton, Mary Wells, David Ruffin for example. Others like Mary Wilson and Martha Reeves have spoken about the manner in which they were treated at Motown many times over the years. In recent years, these ladies have reconciled with Berry and are now on good terms with him. What changed? It's called life. When an individual reaches a certain age, your priorities change and you let go of your past and forgive those who have wronged you. This is what happened. Relationships mend with the passage of time. Diana once described Berry as a mad slave driver. They were not on good terms when she left the company in the 80's, but with the passage of time things changed. For those artists who left this earth too early, they went to their graves with the negative feelings they had against BG.

[REDHOT]

I think it's a shame that Scherrie Payne does not get royalties,from her work,with The Supremes,and get this,they[[Motown) said that she,owe them money,is reason.I find that hard to believe.what's the deal,BayouMotownMan?and you are right,on the money,Carlo.
Please stay positive

[BobC]

I agree, Carlo. I went back to NY [[I've lived in Texas for twenty years) for my high school reunion, and I was shocked at how many people refused to go because they were still angry about crap that happened in the 80's. I mean GET OVER IT. I am happy that the old Motowners have dropped the BS and buried the hatchet. It shows character. Berry Gordy is one of my heroes and he started Motown out of nothing. I respect that.

[marv2]

Who are you referring to? A good number of the artists who used to complain about Berry Gordy are no longer living: Florence Ballard, Gladys Horton, Mary Wells, David Ruffin for example. Others like Mary Wilson and Martha Reeves have spoken about the manner in which they were treated at Motown many times over the years. In recent years, these ladies have reconciled with Berry and are now on good terms with him. What changed? It's called life. When an individual reaches a certain age, your priorities change and you let go of your past and forgive those who have wronged you. This is what happened. Relationships mend with the passage of time. Diana once described Berry as a mad slave driver. They were not on good terms when she left the company in the 80's, but with the passage of time things changed. For those artists who left this earth too early, they went to their graves with the negative feelings they had against BG.

Carlo you are totally correct!

[luke]

Mary Wilsons illeterate mother signed her contract as Mary was underage. Diana said she had 100, 000 when she left the Supremes. Something was very wrong. They sold at least 50 million records. Forgiveness is very freeing--each at their own rate but when you are struggling more with lifes necessities it may be harder. [[Stevie Wonders contract at Motown began to change things when he re-signed).

[jobeterob]

I think Carlo is right in that most of these people age and remember the good times. They all got "something" out of Motown even if they feel it wasn't enough.

I think a lot of their opinion was based on not understanding what an artist is usually liable for in the way of costs.

And I also agree that the more successful you are, the less likely to complain; the less successful, the less happy you would be about how things worked out. And as time goes by, you learn to accept what can't be changed.

Perhaps the explanation is no greater than that.

[Jimi LaLumia]

that's all well and good, but 'having the rug pulled out from under your feet" probably was not included in any Motown artists' contracts; that was a bonus/surprise for many..

[jobeterob]

Michael Jackson's Sales from that site Florence referred us to:



# Artist Album Sales
1 Michael Jackson Thriller 66,200,000
2 Michael Jackson Bad 34,700,000
3 Michael Jackson Dangerous 30,200,000
4 Michael Jackson History 20,300,000
5 Michael Jackson Off The Wall 19,500,000
6 Michael Jackson Number Ones 10,000,000
7 Michael Jackson Invincible 7,300,000
8 Michael Jackson The Essential Michael Jackson 5,600,000
9 Michael Jackson Blood On The Dance Floor 5,400,000
10 Michael Jackson This Is It 5,300,000
11 Michael Jackson King Of Pop 3,600,000
12 Michael Jackson Ben 3,300,000
13 Michael Jackson Greatest Hits HIStory Vol 1 3,200,000
14 Michael Jackson Got To Be There 1,800,000
15 Michael Jackson Best Of Michael Jackson 1,800,000
16 Michael Jackson Farewell My Summer Love 1,200,000
17 Michael Jackson The Best Of Michael Jackson 1,000,000
18 Michael Jackson The Collection 900,000
19 Michael Jackson Music & Me 800,000
20 Michael Jackson One Day In Your Life 700,000
21 Michael Jackson Forever Michael 600,000
22 Michael Jackson The Ultimate Collection 550,000
23 Michael Jackson The Michael Jackson Mix 500,000
24 Michael Jackson Anthology 400,000
25 Michael Jackson 20th Century Masters 400,000
26 Michael Jackson Anthology 250,000
27 Michael Jackson Rockin' Robin 150,000
28 Michael Jackson The Best of Michael Jackson Live 150,000
29 Michael Jackson The Definitive Collection 150,000
30 Michael Jackson Stripped Mixes 100,000
31 Michael Jackson Love Songs 100,000
226150000

[jillfoster]

It depends if peple hold grudges or not. I'm a bitch who holds a grude for DECADES, so I would have never forgiven Berry had I been screwed.

[detmotownguy]

Didn't Diane complain that she could only put her on a few hundred thousand prior to leaving Motown? After that, she took control over her affairs?

[luke]

See what I posted above!

[BayouMotownMan]

Scherrie Payne does not get royalties from Motown because she, like most of the others, signed away all future royalties when she left the company in 1981. But let's face it...future royalties for Scherrie would have been miniscule. She had no big hit records with Motown, only one moderately successful single and album. Motown lost money trying to re-launch the Supremes after Jean left. They were still talented and beautiful, but I'd have to say that Motown took more of a hit on these Supremes than they deserve. The one profitable thing Scherrie did do was to demand that she be able to link herself to the Supremes in her contract release. She could bill herself as Scherrie Payne of the Supremes.

There was only so much money that any company would put into a group of female singers who averaged changing personnel about every 18 months or so. New members meant a new look, new sound...and more money needed for promotion. The Supremes were an expensive act in that they were not self-producing; they were dependant on writers, producers and musicians both in the studio and onstage. Add to this, stage-wear and choreography and you have an act that takes double the money to keep going than say a Stevie, Marvin or Commodores. While Scherrie and Susaye are gifted writers, Motown nixed this idea because neither had a track record of hits whereas their in-house writers and producers were accomplished. So yes, I can see where Motown lost money with the Scherrie-led Supremes.

As far as the Jackson 5, it was father Joe Jackson that lobbied heavily for the group to leave Motown. He was very jealous of Berry Gordy's control over his sons and the fact that they looked toward him as more of a father figure than their real father. MJ was not in favor of leaving at first and was the fourth of five to finally agree to sign with CBS, with brother Jermaine pretty much stuck at Motown because he married BG's daughter. I think the J5 had gone as far as they could go with Motown and the company was reluctant to let them break out of their teeny-bopper image, even though it wasn't selling anymore. This was during the period when Gordy and dePasse began concentrating of movie projects after the success of Lady Sings The Blues, and most of the recording acts suffered at the hands of people Gordy should not have trusted.

In terms of the Supremes, it was really over when Jean left. Motown thought that Mary's getting married meant that she wanted out of the group the same as Lynda and Jean. But Mary really had nowhere to go to. So she had the fans deluge Motown with cards and letters demanding that the group be re-launced. It worked up to a point, but as has been said before, putting Pedro in charge proved fatal and trying to re-establish themselves as a disco group just wasn't accepted by the general public. Diana's Supremes were forever burned into the mind of the general public, whose memories are short. While Jean had significant hit records with the group, when Diana made her comeback with LSTB it sealed the fate of all future Supremes groupings. By 1974 they, like the Marvelettes before them, became a faceless road act.

[Jimi LaLumia]

wow....interesting..luvin the Bayou...
but as to 'people Gordy should not have trusted", isn't it obvious that by the time of the 'movies era", that Gordy didn't give a **** [[fill in whatever four letter word you prefer) about, Supremes, Tempts, Tops, Gladys, Spinners, Marvin, etc as everyone jumped ship and fled, some to much greener, well deserved pastures..
Mr.Gordy, blinded by love/lust and, yes, greed, seemed to lose the 'plot' of the once beautiful 60's machine he had set into motion, and the result...smoking ruins and left overs, and Smokey & Wonder clinging to the brow until the 80's re birth via Rick James and Lionel..

[BayouMotownMan]

I'd agree with that Jimi. When Gordy took back the helm in 1979 Motown was all but finished. There was a resurgence of Motown music in the early 80s but it didn't last long enough to put the company back to where it had been...an innovative music machine. Now they were just following trends.

[luke]

Im wondering though with all the compilations which if they included any of Scherrie singing might have added up some over the years.

[Jimi LaLumia]

the biggest thing for Motown was the coronation of Michael Jackson as the king of the 80's...on EPIC RECORDS!!!!..this would have never happened in a million years if MJ had remained with Motown, no way...catalog sales of J5/MJ on the back of "Thriller" probably made more for Motown in the 80's than anything else, as well as the exposure from "Motown 25" on NBC Tv

[BayouMotownMan]

True, add to this the murder of Marvin Gaye in 1984. His Motown catalog skyrocketed for several years.

Ironically the last big Top 40 hit that Motown had was a Yesteryear re-issue of Do You Love Me by the Contours. From the Dirty Dancing movie. It outsold Stevie and Lionel in those last few months

[jobeterob]

Excellent posts Rick.

I've heard that songs going on to compilation CDS receive about $500 in royalties and heaven knows how many ways those royalties get split - so they are nothing, as Rick said.

R. Dean Taylor, who used to post here, said his royalty share from Love Child was next to nothing after it was divided so many ways.

[BayouMotownMan]

Very true. Low percentages of low sales = little to nothing. A check for $2.48 could be due someone.

[RossHolloway]

Michael Jackson's Sales from that site Florence referred us to:



# Artist Album Sales
1 Michael Jackson Thriller 66,200,000
2 Michael Jackson Bad 34,700,000
3 Michael Jackson Dangerous 30,200,000
4 Michael Jackson History 20,300,000
5 Michael Jackson Off The Wall 19,500,000
6 Michael Jackson Number Ones 10,000,000
7 Michael Jackson Invincible 7,300,000
8 Michael Jackson The Essential Michael Jackson 5,600,000
9 Michael Jackson Blood On The Dance Floor 5,400,000
10 Michael Jackson This Is It 5,300,000
11 Michael Jackson King Of Pop 3,600,000
12 Michael Jackson Ben 3,300,000
13 Michael Jackson Greatest Hits HIStory Vol 1 3,200,000
14 Michael Jackson Got To Be There 1,800,000
15 Michael Jackson Best Of Michael Jackson 1,800,000
16 Michael Jackson Farewell My Summer Love 1,200,000
17 Michael Jackson The Best Of Michael Jackson 1,000,000
18 Michael Jackson The Collection 900,000
19 Michael Jackson Music & Me 800,000
20 Michael Jackson One Day In Your Life 700,000
21 Michael Jackson Forever Michael 600,000
22 Michael Jackson The Ultimate Collection 550,000
23 Michael Jackson The Michael Jackson Mix 500,000
24 Michael Jackson Anthology 400,000
25 Michael Jackson 20th Century Masters 400,000
26 Michael Jackson Anthology 250,000
27 Michael Jackson Rockin' Robin 150,000
28 Michael Jackson The Best of Michael Jackson Live 150,000
29 Michael Jackson The Definitive Collection 150,000
30 Michael Jackson Stripped Mixes 100,000
31 Michael Jackson Love Songs 100,000
226150000

Wait; I thought Garth Brooks sold the most albums of any artist...

[jobeterob]

Ya, maybe the lists are flawed; we each could make our own lists if we did enough research.

I guess they reflect world wide sales but 66 M for Thriller seems a lot. And MJ died broke??? Oh well, I guess there is more credibility to that than the MAA.

[BayouMotownMan]

I'm sure Rob, I've heard tales of an entertainer getting a check for $2.38

[BayouMotownMan]

MJ was far from broke, he just overextended himself. It was a cash flow issue.

Many times very wealthy people are rich on paper...it does not mean that they have access to the funds. I sure wish I had that problem

[Jimi LaLumia]

I'm sure Rob, I've heard tales of an entertainer getting a check for $2.38

hullo, right here!!!!..ding ding ding...after releasing my second dance single in 2004, I was immediately in debt to the label that released it for 3 grand, even though it was already produced/recorded before we delivered it, complete with artwork for the sleeve for the CD single..welcome to the music biz!