How Come .... [[?) SDF Members !!!!

[GeeTee(HPK)]

I've notice some months ago,how the forum has changed. At one time, this forum use to be very fun to talk about about and,share music etc;. It looks as though quite a few posts only get "lurkers" ,with very few responses. What's going on ? You mean to tell me that we have a bunch on nosey individuals that would rather lurk,than to actually say something ? C'MON, the numbers don't lie ! [[Cat got your tongue ? :mad: )

I've stopped posting my show info,because very few people really bothered to check out the link anyway. It looks a though if I post a link, everyone will look,but have little or nothing to say. :confused:

I know I'm not the only one that feels this way,but I'm not afraid to speak my mind !

If you're not afraid to speak on this, please do so ....

[[let's see how far this goes .... LOL SMH !!!!) :rolleyes:

If I'm wrong,then I stand corrected ! Thank you

[MadLad]

I've noticed that as well GT! :[[

[GeeTee(HPK)]

and did you notice MadLad that 30 people lurked,and you're the only person that replied back? :)

I've rest my case. :) Thanks !

[paladin]

Thanks for speaking your mind, my friend. I wouldn't have it any other way, it's one of the foundations of this forum. I've noticed a lot of personal sniping and have read that some lurkers are apparently intimidated by such an illustrious bunch of mega minds . I know that feeling well .I lurked for some time many years ago when I first came here, because the folks who reside here were so passionate and profoundly knowledgeable about the subject matter. Then I had to jump in when they started talking about The Temptations and I 've been here ever since.

I think that I read somewhere "here" that lurkers make up a significant amount of traffic. There are a few things that I would consider irregular on this site but nothing earth shaking and the only reason I voice that opinion is because I've been around for a while. I think that we have lost a lot of folks who used to be here posting, but continue to lurk for whatever reason and thats their inherent right or privilege.

True I don't sense the same feeling of camaraderie that I used to, but things change and I believe the make up of the forum is no exception. Thank God newer members have more to choose from than the flame throwing Supreme/DR/MW threads although I find them to be hysterically funny. Guess even I lurk a bit lol.......but to address your point this may just be a lull before the storm. I certainly hope so. But as other folks have noted here and there, I really miss the old forum colors and layout, for some reason it seemed to pull you in and not want to let you go, same as it ever was ?......no......but good just the same.

I also miss the corny "Getting to Know You/Roll Call Threads" and now I see where new members are welcomed on the main page lower level, almost by accident, when back in the day we were jumping on the welcome wagon whenever we spotted a new member posting. Now threads began and end and we never even know who we are talking to [[to some degree) or why they are even posting, dam we used to have great manners...lol.....same as it ever was ?....no...but still a worthwhile trip to the web.

[ralpht]

Kdub,
You bring back warm memories of the old days when, yes, we seemed to go out of our way to welcome a newcomer. I suppose one of the drawbacks of a successful forum is,simply, the large number of people participating makes it difficult to do just that. On any given day I'm approving several applicants for membership. Things are just a little more busy than the old days.

As far as flamers, I do try and deal with them when problems arise and because our membership has become a little more vast, I'm less inclined to try and make peace like I might have back then. Now I simply delete what I perceive to be offensive, be it a thread or a person. Still, I do realize a certain something has been lost that was pretty good a few years back.

[paladin]

Its like you said Ralph....its good to be "King"...lol.......:cool::cool::cool::cool::cool:

[Doug-Morgan]

I've noticed it, but in a different way. SDF has changed a lot over the years. A lot of the older posts were devoted to SITSOM [[quiz....what is SITSOM? Anyone remember? How 'bout you newer members?), and early Motown. As our knoledge base grew, the board has become more serious and technical in tone and that has left me a little out in left field. I'll admit, I do much more lurking than posting now a days, if only because most of the questions I would ask would sound like a 4th grader in a college level course. I guess maybe I wish we'd go back to the days when we discussed Johnny Bristol's role in "Some Day We'll Be Together", but am forced to admit that the forum has gone beyond that stage.

An in a way, GT is right. I don't think anyone would even attempt to start an AARRUUGGHH... thread now a days, and I'd almost be afraid that a "Blue Eyed Soul" thread would be greeted with a hearty "Doug, you jerk". The place isn't as much "fun". Maybe the new format, deviding up the catagories has something to do with that, but there doesn't seem to be as much fun and outright tomfoolery as there used to be.

On the other hand......four fingers and a thumb.....I don't worry too much about it. There have been times that posting has slowed down, only to pick up again. Things go in cycles, and given that that the forum has been around for 10 years, I guess I can accept any changes that have occured over the years. Regardless of my gripes, it's still a great place to hang out.

[soulster]

Diversity has a way of doing this to a forum. Not everyone has the same mindset as when it was a small, out of the way place.

For me, i'll not post for two or three days because when I look around here, all I see are a bunch of Diana Ross/Supremes/Mary Wilson/whatever related threads. Then, half of those degenerate into bitch-slapping. It is the main reason I left the first time.

[arrr&bee]

I too have noticed the feeling of a certain[anger?]in some places where back in the day we seemed a much more happy bunch,this is still the best music site by light years but some unhappy campers have wandered in.

[paladin]

Jai, we all know why you're happy........

[GeeTee(HPK)]

134 views,9 replies ? :confused: [[and thank all 9 of you,that replied back)

[soulster]

Do you think this forum software has anything to do with it? I'm guessing that a lot of old-timers just can't get used to it, and the new features. I mean, we even have a convenient way to quote people, but some are probably used to copy+paste.

The one complaint I have is that the administrator won't give us more color scheme options. I'm really starting to hate this bright red. And he still hasn't enabled avatars.

[daddyacey]

"I've stopped posting my show info,because very few people really bothered to check out the link anyway"

Well , sometimes I can't get a good link up , depends on which comp I'm on . But believe me ,I still enjoy your postings and playlists. Sometimes I don't respond ,but that don't mean I'm not paying attention or getting something out of what you contribute. For what it is worth being I only know of you from this forum ,I had a lot of respect and admiration for your posts and I'm just letting you know that up front. Truth is I'm a pecker in regards to typing ,though I may have a lot I wan't to say ,it's a trip to type thoughts out. Reminds me of college ,you know.

[ceasar]

Ralph,
Is there any way you can be of help in getting Man Of Music back on.
He seems to be having trouble getting it together.
He kept things going on the Philly sceen.
If you want to, reply to me in my private messages.
Then maybe I can help him get it done, plus keep him cool, thanks.
Ceasar
The
Original
Tymes

[ralpht]

Ceasar,
Have him contact me at ralpht@soulfuldetroit.com.

[kalisa]

The one complaint I have is that the administrator won't give us more color scheme options. I'm really starting to hate this bright red. And he still hasn't enabled avatars.

Soulster...if you go to the very bottom of you screen there is a drop down menu where you can select "default style" or an "sdf orange" or "sdf red" or "sdf red2". The default style is relatively peaceful shades of slate blue on white. Don't know about avatars, I notice Robb_K has his picture up but nobody else seems to have an avatar.

[ceasar]

Ralph,
Thank you so much, will do.
Also, a job well done on the smooth cd.
Ceasar

[ralpht]

Ceasar,
Thanks for the compliment. It means a lot coming from you.

[soulster]

Soulster...if you go to the very bottom of you screen there is a drop down menu where you can select "default style" or an "sdf orange" or "sdf red" or "sdf red2". The default style is relatively peaceful shades of slate blue on white. Don't know about avatars, I notice Robb_K has his picture up but nobody else seems to have an avatar.

Yeah, I know about those colors. But, when they switched to this software, many of us complained about the colors, and how we liked darker colors. Also, Robb_K is uniquely able to post an avatar but not by the proper means. There are switches the administrator can enable for these options.

[moe]

GeeTee,
Sorry to be so late. This is the first time I saw this. I agree with you whole heartedly. It's not the same. What happened? Who's to say? And Douglas, I DO remember SITSOM.......watch it ever so often. R&B everyone knows why you're always left of center [[go back to the shed & make more hooch). Where's Juice? Where's Dyva? Oldies comes occasionally [[hi Oldies). Some of us [[like Des & MsM) are still around but sometimes the Forum can be bankrupt. These are my thoughts. Anyone else?

[BobC]

I got bored with the relentless Supremes arguments. I don't even feel like you can have an interesting discussion about, say, how smoking damaged both Mary and Diana's voices, without people behaving as though you have personally insulted them. There's good obsessed and bad obsessed. I just find the Motown story fascinating but have zero emotion invested in it, however.

Also--some of us lean to the right and I get tired of people branding people like me racist, when I'm not.

[BobC]

By the way, I just finished Darlene Love's memoirs and that book is the most FASCINATING autobio I've read since "Dreamgirl." I was not expecting it to be as great as it turned out to be.

[BayouMotownMan]

Wow...and I walked away from Darlene Love's book feeling that she was such a whiner. She blamed everybody for her troubles, I don't recall her accepting responsibility for anything

[BobC]

Really? I did sort of feel like she blamed a lot of things on everyone but her--but I put that aside and found her insights into people like Tom Jones, Phil Spector, Elvis, Dionne Warwick and others fascinating. I find most auto-bios really white-washed and boring, but Darlene pulls no punches. I didn't really care if she was whining as long as it was interesting. I also read "Lick Me" by Cherry Vanilla and although it started out interesting, I found the incessant drugs and sex really boring after a while. I really had no idea how promiscuous a lot of people were in the 60's and 70's. I'm a person who became sexually active in the era of AID's so for me, promiscuity was never an option. Even experimenting a little was highly risky. I sort of get annoyed when 60's people fail to grasp how later generations have paid the price for their "if it feels good, do it" mentality. They seem oblivious to it.

[BobC]

I am now starting "Confessions of a Prairie Bitch" by Nellie Olson of "Little House" and it is HILARIOUS. I love her attitude

[blueskies]

GeeTee,
Sorry to be so late. This is the first time I saw this. I agree with you whole heartedly. It's not the same. What happened? Who's to say? And Douglas, I DO remember SITSOM.......watch it ever so often. R&B everyone knows why you're always left of center [[go back to the shed & make more hooch). Where's Juice? Where's Dyva? Oldies comes occasionally [[hi Oldies). Some of us [[like Des & MsM) are still around but sometimes the Forum can be bankrupt. These are my thoughts. Anyone else?

Yea, where are these 'old-timers'? I sure miss the good old days. Does anyone remember these names from the past and where are they now?
Fayette
Common
Handsome
Vickie
Michael/Cleoharvey
Scratcher
DVD Mike
Livonia Ken
Spookey
Also, wonder if any of the early posters are not longer with us?

[ralpht]

Moe,
I'm sure the forum has better moments at various times, but "Bankrupt" may be a little extreme. I think it really boils down to population, Moe. SD has a vast membership that goes beyond anything I would ever have imagined a few short years ago. It is now a different animal. It is an adapting process, I suppose. Take from the forum that which interests you and don't worry about the rest.

BobC,
I'm totally with you on the Supremes hassles. I've never quite understood the dynamics that come into play, but I know the threads generally lead to some sort of headache for me. I've actually toyed with the idea of banning any threads related to the Supremes, but can you imagine how that one would fly? So, what I'm left with is some sort of on-going problem that seems to bring out the worst in some of the membership. As I've recently stated, I'm taking quicker action deleting membership of what I perceive to be trouble makers. It is all I can do.

[ralpht]

Blueskies,
You have listed a few of my favorite past forum members. Members come and members go, for a variety of reasons. Many I miss and hope will return at some future date. It has happened with others in the past.

[ceasar]

Ralph,
I relayed you message to M.O.M.
He will be getting in touch.
From all the entertainers in Philly
We thank you for your help.
Ceasar

[ralpht]

Not a problem, Ceaser. I'll get him straightened away.

[ceasar]

Again Ralph,
Thank you , thank you, thank you.
Ceasar

[ms_m]

Take from the forum that which interests you and don't worry about the rest.

Amen and pass the corn bread!;)

and for old time sakes ...
nuff said....LOL

[[apologies in advance Ralph)


Seriously though, I understand where GeeTee is coming from...in some ways, it's like the old saying, what you don't know won't hurt you and back in the day we didn't know how many people were lurking...now it's all out there for everyone to see and it can be a little disconcerting but hey....life goes on.

I do miss the colors though, it gave it a more homie feel to me and I think what annoys me the most are the people that couldn't keep their names....I want my Jai back......LOL...

...and Kdub will always be Kdub to me...shrugs

Ralph, Des and I had a discussion a while back about how cool it would be to have an amnesty day....a 24 hour deal where some of the old members could come back to speak their mind....not like the "street" thread...something more civilized.

It would probably be a pain in the neck for you the moderator to figure out the logistics of such a thing but I think it's worth looking in to. We lost a lot of knowledgeable members for reasons that none of us [[or most of us) don't even care about after all this time. I think it would be nice to have a reunion....just a thought

[ralpht]

Ms.M,
I don't hold grudges and am always open to anyone that would like to re-join the forum. I think more than enough time has gone by, for all of us that were involved at that time, to let bygones be bygones. Besides, who wouldn't miss Paulie 3 Shoes?

[soulster]

I'll even extend an olive branch to those I have issues with, but it has to be a two-way street.

[ralpht]

It wouldn't work any other way, Soul.

[moe]

Enough said..........

[paladin]

Soulster said

Diversity has a way of doing this to a forum. Not everyone has the same mindset as when it was a small, out of the way place.





Ms M said:

...and Kdub will always be Kdub to me...shrugs






@Soulster, I never thought of SDF as a small or out of the way place. The diversity of opinions and depth of knowledge of the posters is what lead me here and dictated that I stay.....it was a new but familiar world that opened up to me and my interests.

@Ms. M . I'll always be Kdub no matter what the heading or avatar says..........I'll admit it gets confusing sometimes but what the hell.......

@ Ralph, I think that Moe is on point although she has acquiesced to your wishes and said Enuff said, that's not good enough. We'd had trolls, freeks, geeks and malcontents since the beginning and weathered them all. Moreover even before the "Threads that lead to the Fall of The House of Usher" we were an intelligent bunch that were prone to serious discussions about what we loved the best, the music of Motown. It appears to me that more time is spent on this forum playa hating on Diana and Mary than anything else. But thats cool because as "the rap artist "Juvenile" once said " I can leave that alone and let that go ".

This place in cyber space called SDF is our playground. I have made some friends for life at this place. This place is special. I was a regular contributor to another forum, that unbeknown to you at the time I had a major difference of opinion with the owner moderator. But rather than front on him or write bad things I just stopped participating. I was off line for over a year and one day 1Wicked sent me an e mail and said Kdub, you need to take a look at this place on the "net" called "Soulful Detroit", they are doing and saying a lot of things that I think you'll enjoy. He was right... and I'll always owe him one for pointing me in the this direction. Ralph I've set across a dinner table with you and you know that I am a serious man. But I ask you to take a moment and reflect upon what my humble associates are saying. We love this place, our place, and we have no other person to carry the weight but you. So just take a moment and reflect, we are here for you and because of you, this place is extremely important, don't let this get away from you or us, it's that important. Oh yeah, Ralphie boy..before you ask me what the hell are you talking about ? I'll tell you, don't damper our passion for the best site on the web. Plus look at it this way, If I was "Juicifus" or "Barely Saine"you would probably have to read 200 more words.....

Kdubya................:cool::cool::cool::cool::coo l:

[ralpht]

Kdub,
You are not only a serious man, but a thoughtful one also. I appreciate your concern for the well being of SD. You have been around here for a long time. I'm just saying that I would let old hostility go if there was a one time member that would like to re-join us in the spirit we all want SD to embrace.

[paladin]

I understood that my friend, quite clearly.......Moe was coming from a different place...as was I....and so was GT.......we have no arguments, we don't want to fight, this is our playground.......Warriors come out and play......

[ms_m]

Warriors come out and play

you rang?

hahahahahaha

The more I think about this, as much as I love the music, it's the nuts and bolts industry talk I miss the most. I learned a lot from that and I've used quite a bit of that info to do my own thing. We had a lot of heavy weights around here.

The one thing in life that is constant is change but sometimes not all change is good. I realize most forums go through different stages at different times but logging on to SDF is often like walking through the house you grew up in ...but with different owners. The memories are still there but the feeling just isn't right.

Maybe the season has passed and we should keep stepping but Ralph, an honest outreach from you to some of the old crew could go a long way. I mean let's be real... whatever the reason, [[right, wrong or somewhere in between) as moderator, it was you that zapped them....:p... and understand, I'm not questioning your decision at the time just keeping it real so it seems to me, that would mean you have to make the first step.....I'm just sayin'

Ok that's my 2cents....I've got work to do.:)

[paladin]

The more I think about this, as much as I love the music, it's the nuts and bolts industry talk I miss the most. I learned a lot from that and I've used quite a bit of that info to do my own thing. We had a lot of heavy weights around here.




Me too, good point......



The one thing in life that is constant is change but sometimes not all change is good. I realize most forums go through different stages at different times but logging on to SDF is often like walking through the house you grew up in ...but with different owners. The memories are still there but the feeling just isn't right.



Dam, I wish I had wrote that................

[ralpht]

Ms.M,
Believe it or not I have been in touch with some previous members. This is something I have thought about for some time now and am more than ready to make peace. I would love for David to return and produce those excellent webisodes he was responsible for. Way back, I made him the offer. Maybe enough time has passed that he would consider the offer.

[BobC]

Ralph--I'd hate to be a moderator on a Supremes forum. I'd probably end up banning everyone. I wonder if Beatles forums get this bad?

[ralpht]

The whole Supremes thing is a mystery to me Bob.

[paladin]

Ralph--I'd hate to be a moderator on a Supremes forum. I'd probably end up banning everyone.

funny.......:cool::cool::cool::cool::cool:

[ralpht]

Kdub,
Speaking of the Juice...Anyone hear from him lately?

[BobC]

Ralph--I can totally understand someone saying they think, say, Jean Terrell is a better singer than, say, Diana Ross--but what I don't get is the emotional over-involvement. I've seen people issue death threats over a group that's been history for decades! I will never understand that--but it makes rational discussion impossible.

[edafan]

this place is still the best

Sad that alot of our musicians are singing and playing in another world.

Something I have just started doing is

going to youtube
and some people ther have created threads like

Tribute to Patsy Cline
whoch plays video after video.

I don't care what the video is
I put it in the background
and I go do other work.

This site has the best information on
our classic Soul RnB Good singing from all eras.

Our oldies station in Boston now plays 60's 70's 80's

80's are not oldies to me.

I am still learning all about 50's,
for instance Five Keys etc
because growing up 77 cents was alot of money
to spend on a 45.

I was fortunate that a record store owner let me
sit with a pile of demos and by ear play them and buy them for 5 cents.

It helped me to collect these

The Ivories for example

Paul Robeson and Ella Fitz

wow

edafan

[paladin]

Juice is fine and busy as hell, when was he not ?:cool::cool::cool::cool::cool:

[ollie]

Gee nothing ever stays the same.
Our world is ever changing, and when things change, they change into something else.
I remember the old sdf 2002-then 2004 when it changed, interesting discussions and quit information. Funky people as well. Some older members are already in heaven, but hopefully they lurk into the current sdf sometimes.
I don't post that much, yet my literacy has seen many great, good, very funny, very sad,
and classy stories here on sdf. The knowledge of the core group and non core group is
outstanding, or amazing, simply breathtaking. The sdf habitat has always been a great place, still is, and it will be in the future.

[ralpht]

Thank you Ollie. That was very kind.

[moe]

KDub & MsM thanks for your words. Another thing I noticed is that Stubass isn't on here as much as before, either. You can't play golf at night, Stu [[unless you invented lights for the golf course LOL).
What I miss is Paulie3 Shoes giving someone something that "fell off the truck." And Chet Finkley reporting it through a War & Peace Novel by Juice! With Dyva on the side saying she can cook better than 1Wicked!!

[soulster]

@Soulster, I never thought of SDF as a small or out of the way place. The diversity of opinions and depth of knowledge of the posters is what lead me here and dictated that I stay.....it was a new but familiar world that opened up to me and my interests.


But, it was/is small on a relative scale. Smaller forums tend to have a very focused, somewhat like-minded membership. As it grows and becomes more diverse, problems develop with people having wider differences of opinion. Small groups are usually able to handle these differences in a civil way. You have your squabbles, then you make up and continue. But, when new people join up, there is less of a "family" atmosphere that gradually occurs, and the gloves are more likely to come off. It's easier to insult and be contemptuous toward someone you have not taken the time to know.

When a forum grows, you inevitably get more trolls, people who cause trouble for their own warped entertainment. They may create hot-button issues or sign up with multiple identities and argue with themselves, anything for a laugh. problem is, it's not funny to all who are serious about discussing things.

On this forum, there are those who are naturally drawn to this forum because it is Detroit soul music, which means for the most part, Motown, and that means a certain group or artist will be discussed to death! But, I do not understand why this particular group of people are so obsessed. It turns off a lot of other forum members.

Me: I come from general music and audiophile forums where disruptions are less likely to occur. Things do get heated, but they work themselves out. One forum I frequent has no fewer than fifteen moderators! The membership there is huge, and the members frequently get out of line. But, with so many mods, the problems are nipped fast, as in literally seconds! The downside is that none of these forums discuss much soul music. On that huge forum, of which a few SDF members are also members of, because it's so huge, there is a somewhat less of a personal feeling. Since most don't know each other, it is best to stay impersonal. Snarky remarks to other members are removed, because if they remain, it will cause bite-back. And, unlike this forum where people tend to clam up and stay away, members tend to pile on there. Then entire threads have to be scrubbed, locked, or removed. The mods do not publicly scold members because that causes hostility.

I also am one of four mods on a specialty audio forum, believe it or not. There are rarely any issues, as the forum is small with a close-knit group of members with a very common interest. Topics like politics is allowed, but no one goes there. People want to keep the peace.

I once commented here about the average age of the members here, but I think Ralph removed it for some reason. I honestly do think that plays a role in the culture of this place.

What I like discussing are audio issues, industry topics, a wide variety of music and recordings, and sometimes politics, race, and religion. I lean progressive/liberal, not religious, and am a Black man, and do not hide it. I grew up in a rural area in the 60s and 70s, and listened to a LOT of Motown as a kid, among almost everything else that was out there.

[soulster]

Ralph--I'd hate to be a moderator on a Supremes forum. I'd probably end up banning everyone. I wonder if Beatles forums get this bad?

I am on a forum where the vast majority of members are HUGE Beatles fans. It gets a bit crazy, but it is also controlled. If too many Beatles or Beatles-related threads pop up, the threads get locked until the threads balance out.

[soulster]

Kdub,
Speaking of the Juice...Anyone hear from him lately?

He pops in from time to time but mostly lurks. hes work gets in the way of posting here, but he has also said that he gets tired of all the stupid Supremes/Diana Ross/Mary Wilson cat-fighting that goes on here. He speaks for a lot of members.

[daddyacey]

"The Juice" ,as I understand has personal issues of family and other interests that he is applying his energy to. I know that he is monitoring the going on's at SDF to an extent , but he is one of the seniors that has seen the ,how should I say....trend of redundance and poo-poo in the conversation that has been going on in the forum and ,as I have come to respect and know the extent of his intellect from his postings understand that he has come to the point of not posting ,unless he has been inspired enough to have something to say. Much like E.F. Hutton :D . There are a number of us here who know and understand this position and in fact feel his presence in spite of his silence. [[Wasup J !!! :D)

[snakepit]

For my part I rarely post these days.
The origins of SDF celebrated Detroit Soul Music [[Northern Soul mostly). Obviously it branched out to other areas of Soul Music. Most early interest was from rare Soul fans in the UK, who covered many topics. USA membership grew and expanded..all most welcome..
Things changed, SDF branched out....
The creation of the Motown Forum was welcome for the many Motown fans.
Then came the flood of Supremes correspondence.
Many SDF members could see where this was heading.........the mass exodus of Motown fans who want to discuss other issues.
I, amongst several Motown fans, requested,indeed pleaded, for a separate Supremes forum.
It never happened....and now many, many ex SDF members have lost interest.
Just check the archives for the missing names AND the quality of the posts
I tried to explain that it as becoming increasingly a waste of time posting Motown threads as members were leaving in droves.[[Remember many of these members also contributed to the main forum)
So we are left with the situation today, causing gee tee's concern.
Sad but entirely predictable .[[As I did on numerous occasions)

[bankhousedave]

'We look before and after. We pine for what is not.' That's from Ode to a Nightingale, but I heard it on Rumpole of the Bailey.

The prophet Isiah is probably as old as me by now, and Paulie might be feedin da fishes, but the same core of ol' timers is still around. There's still enough of us to keep several breweries and R&B's still working full time. Maybe we just need to talk more. Look back in the archives. There's a treasurehouse there of times when we used to jaw all night. We haven't said it all, by a long ways. Must be some loose threads in there someone could reactivate. Even the Supremies bitching is a sign of life. I look and lurk more than pontificate at the moment because I'm so busy doing whatever it is I'm doing. But I'm always out there. Stubass will tell you that.

[snakepit]

"Rumpole of the Bailey"......that was a great album

"That's from Ode to a Nightingale, but I heard it on Rumpole of the Bailey."

[ralpht]

I keep noticing the criticism of the Supreme threads and the trouble caused by them. I can't disagree with any of this criticism, but what would the membership want me to do about this? If I were to ban any threads dealing with this, I'm sure I could be drawn and quartered. If I leave it be, I get idiots posting vile things that, once I have noticed, or it is brought to my attention, I deal with it ASAP. Meanwhile, some of you complain that there is nothing to talk about. What the hell are you looking for? We have a multitude of new members that bring to the table a host of interesting topics to discuss. Bear in mind, this forum is free. No charge to participate. So I'm asking all of you. What would you do to improve things here. Don't suggest a separate Supremes thread, because that would turn into a disaster and I would be dealing with more grief. So, tell me. What do you guys want? I'll try and accommodate reasonable suggestions.

[soulster]

Well, actually, I think these obsessed Supremes fans have their own little forum, but they come here, probably because it is so chaotic there. So, I guess they figured they'd take over this place. One person has told me these stupid arguments are created by one person with multiple accounts and who starts arguments with himself. I suppose, unless they are using dynamic IPS addresses to avoid detection.

I suggested that when the Supremes/Ross/Wilson threads become too abundant, temporarily close some of them. The problem is that the rabid fans will just start more in retaliation and will keep you busier than a one-legged man in a butt-kicking contest. Therefore, I do think creating a Supremes section is an answer, but you aren't going for it. And, you can't ban outright Supremes discussion because they are part of Motown.

We, the membership, could try to start more threads about other topics. I tried that, but few people are ever interested in them. One guy had the nerve to say my topics were boring and geeky. I guess he's rather talk about the Supremes too.

This crap with the Supremes was the reason I left the first time.

Maybe this place should be renamed "The Soul Forums". That way, the members would be encouraged to discuss more soul music than just Motown. Or, rename the sections as something like "All Things Motown", "General R&B Discussion", "Clubhouse", or "Off-Topic", and, finally, the "Supremes Snakepit". :)

[skooldem1]

Here we go again. Ralph, here is a suggestion. Wouldn't it be easier for those who are so annoyed at the Diana/Mary/Supremes threads to just stay out of them? That way you don't have to worry about segregating anyone by creating a separate forum, and those who think those threads are nothing but trouble, they save themselves from nothing but heartaches.

[snakepit]

Regarding the Motown Forum, the majority of the UK posters have a "Corporate" view of Motown, and that means interest in all aspects of the Company.
We just do not have the "cultural" feelings that so many USA members have......The Supremes were NOT that big a issue in the UK. We grew up with "The Motown Sound" brand.
Most UK fans tend to buy, collect and follow ALL aspects of the label.
The continuual bombardment of Supremes threads turned MOTOWN lovers away.
Now , there are so few UK fans left, that there is now little point posting....
Look at the response to the magnificent post re HDH recording techniques [[virtualy nil) to the post regaring Mary Wilson being Lena Horne!
Suggestion? Rename Motown Forum the Supremes forum [[it virtualy is now)and the rest can decmp to the main forum,

[BobC]

Ralph--if no one's said this lately--thanks for the great forum. My complaints are very minor and have nothing to do with you. I happen to really enjoy this forum.

[ms_m]

I think it's too funny this seems to be turning into a, let's bash the Motown/Supremes thread...just goes to show, the more things change, the more they stay the same.:D

[ralpht]

Well. I know that the trouble makers come from someplace else. All they have to do is start blaming Marv for everything and they have shown their hand to me. Then it is zap time. I'll keep doing whatever I can to make SD a cool place to hang.

[soulster]

Regarding the Motown Forum, the majority of the UK posters have a "Corporate" view of Motown, and that means interest in all aspects of the Company.
We just do not have the "cultural" feelings that so many USA members have......The Supremes were NOT that big a issue in the UK. We grew up with "The Motown Sound" brand.
Most UK fans tend to buy, collect and follow ALL aspects of the label.
The continuual bombardment of Supremes threads turned MOTOWN lovers away.
Now , there are so few UK fans left, that there is now little point posting....
Look at the response to the magnificent post re HDH recording techniques [[virtualy nil) to the post regaring Mary Wilson being Lena Horne!
Suggestion? Rename Motown Forum the Supremes forum [[it virtualy is now)and the rest can decmp to the main forum,

Snakepit, the U.K. members are really not much different than the U.S. members. We love all things about Motown, and in the 60s, people were not obsessed with the Supremes as this forum's membership would have you believe.

When I was growing up, Motown was a sound, a brand. It's these current Supremes fanatics that confuse the issue here.

[marv2]

Snakepit, the U.K. members are really not much different than the U.S. members. We love all things about Motown, and in the 60s, people were not obsessed with the Supremes as this forum's membership would have you believe.

When I was growing up, Motown was a sound, a brand. It's these current Supremes fanatics that confuse the issue here.

These people thrive on making personal attacks! That is what they are here for. They brought with them from other forums a lot of crap that they plan to continue here at Soulful Detroit it seems. Discussing the music and the artists are not even secondary to them.

[phil]

Wouldn't it be easier for those who are so annoyed at the Diana/Mary/Supremes threads to just stay out of them?

Seems evidence to me. :cool:

[uptight]

Ralph, I wouldn't suggest you do anything more than what you have been doing. If long-time members are leaving, it is not because of some stupid DRATS threads. It is more likely that they have outgrown SDF, have seen the cycle of the repeating topics over the years, or have moved on with life's changes.

But I agree with Soulster. If you lock certain threads, rabid Supremes fans will only create more threads. If we don't like those threads, we can ignore them.

[BobC]

Yes you can simply not read the Supremes threads--true--but I happen to find the Supremes story fascinating. Mary's book sparked my interest in Motown's story. I just wish people wouldn't get so nasty because it gets to be a drag. My introduction to a Motown forum years ago was when I started a thread asking which Supreme did fans think had the best voice. I was instantly attacked and told I was trying to start a fight. I was baffled at the time--but now I "get it." I am in my 40's so Motown's golden era passed me by, and nobody my age or younger knows or cares about Motown. This forum is the only place I have to talk to people about this subject.

Okay--I'm done with this issue.

[paladin]

Wow, but whoa.... this is exactly the type of thread that used to get me so pumped up about SDF in the first place. Snakepit, Bankhouse, Doug, Ms. M, Moe, Soulster, Marv, Skooldem, GT, ......and everybody else, what the hell is this a Family Reunion ? I've said before that surely the Supremes belong here but I guess Ralph has done all that he could do about them. I've ignored them but I look in from time to time and I guess the the activity that goes on in them can certainly get offensive and appear to be on another forum all together.

I believe, no I know ,that the lack of civility, name calling and other attacks have always kept me from participating even when I wanted to jump in. Sure I've ignored them but does that mean that they have to become part of the fabric of the forum ? I don't know what the answer is, but I bet that if I locked you guys up in a room for an hour you'd figure it out. Somewhere along the line, we didn't school the new kids and old members forgot that we used to have rules....right, things change, people come and go, but I must say that the lack of some of the senior members performing "gut checks"[[ read reality checks ) may have lead to an over abundance of wackiness and surely failing to post in dissent or agreement on certain topics could have also diminished some of the quality of the forum.


Call me old fashioned if you must but I truly miss the people that were the bed rock of this forum and when the intelligent, respectful and humorous discussions were par for the course, not an aberration. This was a place primarily for adults but kids could come on and be totally amazed.

One other thing if I may, I absolutely, positively hate trolls, or people who post the most "inane topics' just to get a rise out of people. Its not that they don't have anything to say, I abhor the fact that they could care less about the music, artist, writer, etc, they just want to get off by pretending that they are not as smart as they really are and then some of us get duped into responding and pontificating without ever knowing what that person really meant. In the old days, when ever someone posted, they usually said they were new and asked the question... if this subject was worthy of discussion? If not a forum member would ask the person that posted to clarify their question or response so as to appropriately address an issue. Now folks just read what they want "into" a comment and its blabber, blabber, yada, yada nothing and the person that started the thread becomes conspicuously absent.........makes you want to go hmmmmmmm.......other wise folks it's great to see you all talking again.......:cool:

[bankhousedave]

I never had a problem with the Supremies, for the very reason that there were only certain threads that I visited. It must surely be the case that the more people there are on the forum the less important the squabbles and dramas in that area are. None of it means that the various members of the Sups cannot be also discussed sensibly. It was a top rank brand, and all members were also of the highest calibre. Any competition is in the minds of the observers. My remark about them being a sign of life above is about not editing out things you don't want to hear. If you do that in life, you wind up alone in protected accommodation under the medico-chemical cosh. Bring it all on.

[tamla617]

i breeze over the supremes threads alot of the time 'cos i know they'll head straight to the scene of an accident.but thats me,i dont like the idea of thread lock out.ralph's hammer can sort out the bad apples.i dont understand the content of some threads can lead people to leave or stop posting on sdf.not all threads deserve an answer either although a polite thanks for posting wouldnt go amiss.
i wasnt here at the begining,only about 3/4 years,so i dont know how good it was before that.all i know is that i do enjoy coming here.

[soulster]

These people thrive on making personal attacks! That is what they are here for. They brought with them from other forums a lot of crap that they plan to continue here at Soulful Detroit it seems. Discussing the music and the artists are not even secondary to them.

That's right! I wouldn't mind those Supremes threads if it weren't for those personal attacks. Nothing brings a forum down quicker than the personal attacks. It does no good to ignore them because they don't stop. There are several forum members who can't seem to post anything without making a snarky remark, no matter how they disguise it.

[Ramone Verona]

Isn't amazing how marv1,2,3,4 tries to pretend that he isn't the Queen of attacks.....and is "one of the good guys" when the idiot has been called out HUNDREDS of numerous times for behavior here and yahoo and you tube and AOL and by Mary Wilson and by Scherrie Payne and by guests on MJ's radio show?! Yet we lose valuable members like boyfromcrosstown, who not only helped the Velvelettes to get re-established but also various "best of" releases as well as the "Anthology" set?! A valuable moderator gets rid of a discussion BEFORE it goes sour....not after it's infected EVERYONE! marv was the guest at the party who was never man enough to excuse himself after it was obvious HE was a recurring problem for the forum and the moderator. marv just stayed and stayed at the party because of an enormous EGO! Such typical boy, such typical child, behavior!

[marv2]

Isn't amazing how marv1,2,3,4 tries to pretend that he isn't the Queen of attacks.....and is "one of the good guys" when the idiot has been called out HUNDREDS of numerous times for behavior here and yahoo and you tube and AOL and by Mary Wilson and by Scherrie Payne and by guests on MJ's radio show?! Yet we lose valuable members like boyfromcrosstown, who not only helped the Velvelettes to get re-established but also various "best of" releases as well as the "Anthology" set?! A valuable moderator gets rid of a discussion BEFORE it goes sour....not after it's infected EVERYONE! marv was the guest at the party who was never man enough to excuse himself after it was obvious HE was a recurring problem for the forum and the moderator. marv just stayed and stayed at the party because of an enormous EGO! Such typical boy, such typical child, behavior!


I don't know who you are , but you had better quit slandering me.

Marv

[Ramone Verona]

You are nuts!

[marv2]

You are nuts!


Now this a prime example of the personal attacks I mentioned earlier. I don't know this person, have never communicated with them before and they take it upon themselves to slander me for reasons known only to themselves. This is wrong and has no place here.

[Ramone Verona]

OH! So YOU KNOW everyone in the media that's ever been pointed out for they're behavior and that's the only time "it's wrong"??! Because YOU personally KNOW them??? WHY is it ALWAYS YOU that's being pointed out??? FOR NO REASON??????
You Are Nuts!
Sweep yourself under the rug, marv.....whine and cry "it doesn't exist and has no place here.....boo hoo!"

[ralpht]

How the hell does this happen? Well, Ramone now sleeps with the fishes, so to speak.

[ms_m]

lawd love a duck...I can't believe how this thread is turning out.

I'm going to give 2 more cents and then I'm back to work....the CD is doing well if anyone cares but anyhoo...

Ralph, when I first came to SDF in 2005, there were rules of conduct posted. Maybe it's time to put those rules back up but....I think a guideline would be in order as well. I say that because, if asking if someone is nuts, is considered offensive....this forum has more problems than I could have ever imagined and if SNARK is seen as a personal attack, lawd help me, cause I should have been banned 6 years ago.

There have been things said on this forum that were way over the line and overlooked...hell...I probably said some of them.... and then there are silly things that got people zapped with the fishes...what's up with that Ralph?

As moderator you have total discretion over this forum and it's members and I get that and respect that but maybe the lack of participation has to do with not knowing what can be said and who can say it....again, I'm just sayin'

...come on folks we are suppose to be SECURE adults....some things just aren't worth getting your panties in a bunch over.

[JimBagley]

How the hell does this happen? Well, Ramone now sleeps with the fishes, so to speak.

I wish Ralph. Ramone who was Elegant Soul who was Just Seven Numbers who may have been mean to folks under other aliases will surely sign up again under another name until he is kicked off again.

[ralpht]

I'll keep my kicking shoe on, Jim.

[ralpht]

Ms.M,
I'm not sure that not knowing what or what not can be said here is the problem. I think it just boils down to simple manners, and some people are woefully lacking. Besides, what the idiot said wasn't some silly little thing.

[ms_m]

Well I guess it's just me Ralph....it seemed pretty tame to me. Especially when you think about some of the things that have been said around here but oh well... you gotta do, what you gotta do...cool by me....so... moving right along...:)

I'm sending you something in your SDF email you and Al may be interested in. May help you guys with airplay.

[soulster]

Ms.M,
I'm not sure that not knowing what or what not can be said here is the problem. I think it just boils down to simple manners, and some people are woefully lacking. Besides, what the idiot said wasn't some silly little thing.

An official statement of forum rules is a great idea. Create some boundaries.

[ms_m]

Hope that link helps Ralph but I do have one more thing to say on this and then I'm really through [[I hope...LOL)

I've ended up with a lot of very good and close personal friends on this forum and one of them is Oldies....but check this out...we actually got to know each as a result of an argument she and I had on this very forum.

Bobby Eli said something I thought was funny as hell, Oldies thought it was offensive and we went at it...but here is the thing, she acted like a secure adult and so did I....and although we disagreed we actually listened to what each other were saying...before it all ended we were laughing in the middle of the argument and that's how we became friends.

I've had some SERIOUS disagreements with Juice...we're still good friends, with Des and he's my little brother from another mother, I've had it out with Kdub and Dyva...they need me I'm there and I've even disagreed with Jai and he's my man of the year forever...my point being.....people don't always agree, so what...people are not always polite...and?....but when people actually LISTEN to one another instead of getting all defensive about what is being said...they can work through their differences....or they can whine or get huffy. The choice is what makes or breaks a conversation..it's what determines ...imo...how a situation can stay in or out of control.

Most people have home training and manners Ralph, probably for some, more so in the real world than the virtual world but..heck...sometimes the situation doesn't call for manners but when secure adults act like secure adults....there is less zapping and more self moderation ....and folks get over their issues and move on instead of carrying them around for the next 10, 15, 20 years....???? Maybe it's time all folks concern let that sht go.... ALL folks not just one side.

NOW...I'm really out.....LOL

[ollie]

Fuzzy Haskins sang:
We got to see in ourselves, what we think we see in others.
Meaning:
If you want the 'other' to do the best, 'you' got to do your best.

To fight and disagree is the 'easiest' thing in the world.
And these days a lot of people are fighting against each other without any good reason.

Everybody against each other or one group against the other group, is the modern worlds credo.
And if you fall for it, that kind of behaviour only brings cash to the corporate world, and power to
some ugly politicians. It wil bring nothing to you, but the feeling of failure.
If some lonely internet warriors enter this forum, and hi jack sdf to display their firm conviction
about music or life, you have the option not to respond. But if you do, then give it the best you got.
And with that i mean, you don't get into a fight or bad discussion.
Peace & Love to all of you.

[bankhousedave]

Here's all the evidence you need. A brief plummet into the depths of idiocy - now we're right back at the heights of wisdom, which is the real key to the survival and success of SD. To paraphrase the great Yogi, 'Smarter than the average forummer'. I share Ollie's sentiments and, like Ms M, have learned a lot and made good and lasting friends from all-out debates around here. There's more wisdom on this forum than in any three governments I can think of.

[tamla617]

i dont want to know who said what on another website,we're on sdf and whats said on sdf is the only thing people should be thinking about.like the now banned elegant,ramone,just 7 numbers was banging on about.i'll give anyone a chance until they say something thats beyond the pale.but he [[i thought he was a she!) came here to post just to wind up and derail a really good thread.what ever happened to "go along to get along"?

ms_m said something about we are supposed to be secure adults,wish it was true.some that have been on here are "adults" that should be secured.

i really hope the boy from xtown comes back here quick,he always adds something to sdf.he was a definate read for me when he posted.

[ralpht]

Ms.M,
Do you really think that that clown, Ramone's comments to Marv were not all that bad? I must disagree. That moron just came on and attacked Marv for no reason. I will not put up with that from anyone.

[ms_m]

i dont want to know who said what on another website,we're on sdf and whats said on sdf is the only thing people should be thinking about.

The irony in that statement cracks me up.....I distinctly remember someone bringing something from another forum to SDF that was extremely offensive to many of us here and racial in nature. Ralph didn't have a problem with it, as a matter of fact said he didn't think it was any big deal...to this very day I disagree with him but I'm not holding on to that sht as if my life depended on it.

What we want, and what others want will not always be the same....but in an adult world, you learn to find a way to compromise or move on where you can get the things you want 24/7....and good luck with that because even if it were possible, your life would be boring as hell.

Ralph, considering the condescending and racial remarks I've heard on this forum...NO, I don't think what was said was anything significant....but you're the moderator and as I've said before, the fact I disagree with some of your choices is not something I'm going to loose any sleep over or bring into our next conversation.

Since the day I arrived here I've said I'm the type of person who will get pissed, get over it and move on....that's how I roll....the people that have become my aces around here, roll the same way.

[ms_m]

...and just for the record, for all of those folks that have not become my aces, or even speaking buddies, so what? Virtual people or even real people everywhere on the planet were not meant to be your friend....I can live with that.

Tamala is correct, not every person is a secure individual but that's the reason sht gets crazy on the net and in life....until each and everyone of us can look inside ourselves and change our sht....getting pissed 'cause someone else will not change theirs is an exercise in futility! The one thing we all can control is how we choose to react to a situation....make the wrong choice...and you're fighting windmills [[other people) for life.

[ralpht]

Ms.M,
at times I'm not sure if you and I are reading the same posts from Ramone, but I will always respect you and your opinions.

[soulster]

One should not be allowed to "go off" on other members for no valid reason. That's not being an adult. However, if someone goes off on me, I am likely to take it up a notch or two. Show me respect, and i'll show you respect.

Making snarky remarks toward other members is the chicken-shit way out. I'll be blunt: some time ago, I made a political post. Out of nowhere, Ms. M attacked me personally in a very harsh way, unprovoked, I might add. I responded with an even nastier post...or two. I don't know what she posted after that because I put her on ignore. Ralph stepped in and removed all the offending posts. I never got an apology or anything from Ms. M.

Destruction is another long-time member who has bashed me twice for no reason whatsoever. I never said anything negative to the guy. Ever!

My point for bringing it up? It is not the kind of behavior that should be allowed among adults.

[ms_m]

Grow up Soulster...there have been two people on this forum I attacked harshly and I called both of them racist. White folks hate being called racist more than anything in life....although I did downgrade one to bigot and that didn't go over well either but oh well....many of those conversations were deleted by Ralph but any conversation he deleted between you and I is news to me...you have a VERY INTERESTING way of rewriting SDF history...but hey...do you.

[ralpht]

This is becoming a rather cathartic thread, don't you guys think?

[ms_m]

This is becoming a rather cathartic thread, don't you guys think?


LOL...I like the way you put that Ralph. LOL

[paladin]

One should not be allowed to "go off" on other members for no valid reason.


Thats about the only thing I agree with you on.

I'm not too sure about the definiton of snarky, but M, will always fess up to being snarky which I don't equate to bashing or harassment.

Des is a very intelligent person whose posts could rival that of Brad Meltzer.

You yourself said both of you were being nasty, so why should anyone apologize ?

The threads are gone but you bring them back up and you're still mad?

You put M on ignore yet you're commenting on her posts ...OK

Believe me I'm not asking you a question, but after you percieved that someone went off on you, you took it up a notch or two ........sounds like you're calling the kettle black Soulster but at least you got stuff off your chest........and since I have no idea of what the heck I'm talking about.......I hope I haven't offended you......

[ralpht]

I suppose most of you weren't here when I was dealing with Isaiah back in 03. the guy was brilliant but incredibly caustic. We knocked heads often and I threw him off the forum for a while, eventually bringing him back in. In spite of our extreme differences,[[I really did like the guy) when my father died, he sent me one of the most heartfelt sympathies I had received. I have never forgot that kindness from such a formidable enemy.

[ms_m]

Ms.M,
at times I'm not sure if you and I are reading the same posts from Ramone, but I will always respect you and your opinions.

Ralph, to be honest I didn't even know this Ramone person existed until now so I'm sure a lot of your frustration stems form things I haven't seen....and if this Ramone truly was J7 and all his other incarnations....I can dig it....LOL.....but my comment was only about what was said in this thread by him...hell...J7 has said a hell of a lot worse and gotten away with it....many of us have:cool:

[tamla617]

what happens if i "ignore" someone?does it mean i cant see this person's posts'?what if they're a thread starter, is the whole thread "invisible"to me?

[ralpht]

But, Ms.M, J7 is no longer with us and you are. but then, you're adorable.

[ms_m]

I suppose most of you weren't here when I was dealing with Isaiah back in 03. the guy was brilliant but incredibly caustic. We knocked heads often and I threw him off the forum for a while, eventually bringing him back in. In spite of our extreme differences,[[I really did like the guy) when my father died, he sent me one of the most heartfelt sympathies I had received. I have never forgot that kindness from such a formidable enemy.

You know Ralph...Isaiah was zapped just before I arrived but we did meet up on Juice's forum and he was caustic but that was just his way....we got into it all the time on Juices forum but I don't think either one of us ever held on to that sht. We both realized we were passionate in our strong convictions and although we didn't always agree we respected each others opinions.

When Jill Foster first came here she/he drove me crazy but then I stopped letting my emotions get in the way and started listening to what she was saying....to this day I think she could probably say things differently... so can I... but I don't let that get in the way of what she has to say and although I don't always agree I respect her offerings to a conversation. When I think she's over my personal line of what I accept, I say something to her about it, she listens, agrees or disagree and we move on.

[ms_m]

awww thanks, you're kind....and I meant when J7 was here....sorry 'bout the wording.

Ralph bottom line is this....I think some people take some things way too personal....hell, I actually had someone tell me I smell and that was one of the nicer things he said about me.....LOL

...to this day Oldies and I laugh about someone who thinKs they can smell me through their computer....Ralph, I take a shower err day, sometimes twice a day so I KNOW I don't smell and someone saying otherwise doesn't mean anything.

There's an old saying....if you throw a rock into a pack of dogs, the one that hollers is the one that is hit....now some people will read that and say, how dare she call me a dog....others will read it and see the wisdom in the message.

Again, it's really more about how we choose to react...why...because we will never, ever be able to change anyone but ourselves. Some days we make a good change, some days we don't but if we can't even recognize that there may be some truth to someones criticism..????...and if there isn't any truth to it....defend yourself and or IGNORE and keep stepping. ....and that's a collective you not a personal you Ralph.:)

[splanky]

Mercy!...
Not to detract from the brilliant words kdubya/paladin just posted above but ah, has anyone else been struck by the irony
of this thread that shows what gets a lot of people talking the most is talking about why they haven't been talking?...

As for the original question, in general there are a number of reasons I may view but not post in any given thread.

If the title suggest a fact the poster's opening post retracts. For instance:

New Edwin Starr Movie...
Has anybody heard of this? I heard a rumour but I couldn't find anything on the net about it...

2. If the thread opens talking about an old or new song being so great but includes no accessible link to hear it.

3. If it's about an artist I personally don't care for I generally don't like to post my critiques against them out of respect for
their fans who I do respect.
My primary exception to the above concerns a producer, actually. I think Ian Levine is a piece of stink that should have
been flushed a long time ago and I apologise to any fans of his offended...
4.If the thread is about an act I do like but know to be a magnet for incendiary sniping. I don't think I have to say what
threads I usually stay off of in the Motown section.
&5. If I can't advance a thread in some way that is looking for an answer to question. I really don't help the first poster by saying something like: Awww, wow, I was wondering about that sh*t too....

[ms_m]

Awww, wow, I was wondering about that sh*t too....

hahahaha, that's funny and so true Splank. Des calls them "me too" post...LOL

I get the me too thing because it's a way of saying you agree but it's always a good idea to add more to the "me too"...or as you say, advance the conversation.

But you know something.....I think the initial rules of internet chatter/engagement and blog speak, have been lost over time...as a matter of fact I doubt if many people even know there were/are rules....shrugs...such is life.

BTW Kdub....I actually learned snark from a former SDF poster...basically it's defined as the thinking man's sarcasm....If you read the "Onion" or ever watch Stephen Colbert....both engage in snark.....some call it satire. Some snark is better than others and not everyone gets it or appreciate it....such is life....LOL

[jobeterob]

I don't think anyone answered Tamla about the ignore button. You can put anyone on ignore and remove them anytime. You can click a button and see any particular post you want to. It's a great idea.

One concern about SD is that the sniping has caused some very knowledgeable people to leave ~ particularly people close to Motown. Generally the reason is the same and it generally revolves around one person. And I think that person draws the fire and probably causes a few fans that have been around for years to join and bring a machine gun with them. I think 25 of these people know each other from two generations back and the dislikes go deep. But ignore is great and will do the job.

It is best if SD doesn't become YouTube. I heard Jermaine Jackson say the other night that Michael's children aren't allowed to go on YouTube, for obvious reasons.

The other issue I wonder about is SD seems to have 1600 odd members and about 250 to 275 are active; if the "mean" talk, the negativity and the directed harshness were gone ~ could it not be more? Would there not be more active members? Would it not attract more people?

Some heritage artists have forums with 5000 members.

But isn't there room to grow it to something more if it could become newsworthy, less gossipy and just plain stupid? For example..........how serious can you take a thread and a poster[[s) on: Did DR Bleach her face? For heavens sake.........these women are 70 years old. It ranks with the worst gossip rags. And do any of you know Lynda Laurence and Scherrie Payne? These are not high profile stars like Aretha Franklin and Tina Turner, yet they have been written about on here like they were Lieutenants in the Nazi army. I don't understand that. What is the reason? It is almost like a mental illness unless it's all a joke.

[splanky]

jobeterob said:
It is almost like a mental illness unless it's all a joke.

Wish I'd said that!

Ms M, Des is so right about so many things I do wonder if others notice. By the way, I've not seen him much around the forum. You know him offline too, don't you? Hope he and the family are fine...

[ms_m]

He's doing well Splank. Dealing with some personal things and keeping busy at work but he keeps abreast of SDF happenings and I think he may show up soon.;)

[tamla617]

jobeterob
thanks.

splanky
you're spot on with the ian levine remark.

[ms_m]

haahhaha....here is my me too moment.....I agree about Levine. Although I think a few [[very few) of his productions are brilliant his business practices leave a lot to be desired. In some circles, he may want to stay away from certain folks...but I have a feeling he knows this. LOL

[marv2]

This is becoming a rather cathartic thread, don't you guys think?

It is! It is very interesting for me to see how other people looking at that very same thing come to entirely different understandings, conclusions.

[paladin]

Mercy!...
Not to detract from the brilliant words kdubya/paladin just posted above but ah, has anyone else been struck by the irony
of this thread that shows what gets a lot of people talking the most is talking about why they haven't been talking?...



:o:o:o:o:o:o:o

yes I remember Isaiah..........

@ M, jeez I watch Colbert and read the Onion, so thats what you do ?:cool:



It is best if SD doesn't become You Tube.


Great comment and thats exactly right ! And I know that you're not talking about videos....lol..


One other thing friends and neighbors [[ you too Ralph !) Has it ever occurred to anyone that we have been invaded by supernatural aliens from TMZ !!!!! I think I first considered that when I saw a thread that suggested there was too much sex in rhythm and blues, DR bleaches her skin, and Did David Ruffin have sex with Eddie Kendricks before he hit Tammi in the head with a Monkey Wench ??? Ok.....I made the last one up.........

[marv2]

:o:o:o:o:o:o:o

yes I remember Isaiah..........

@ M, jeez I watch Colbert and read the Onion, so thats what you do ?:cool:



Great comment and thats exactly right ! And I know that you're not talking about videos....lol..


One other thing friends and neighbors [[ you too Ralph !) Has it ever occurred to anyone that we have been invaded by supernatural aliens from TMZ !!!!! I think I first considered that when I saw a thread that suggested there was too much sex in rhythm and blues, DR bleaches her skin, and Did David Ruffin have sex with Eddie Kendricks before he hit Tammi in the head with a Monkey Wench ??? Ok.....I made the last one up.........

WHAT? I was just about to say........LOL!!!!!

Yes, there have been some rather "unique" threads started lately that reminds me of the stuff TMZ comes up with.

[soulster]

The reason I posted my situation with two members is not because I want to stir anything up. I just don't like hostilities in a place I come to to relax and enjoy the discussion.

[soulster]

Grow up Soulster...there have been two people on this forum I attacked harshly and I called both of them racist. White folks hate being called racist more than anything in life....although I did downgrade one to bigot and that didn't go over well either but oh well....many of those conversations were deleted by Ralph but any conversation he deleted between you and I is news to me...you have a VERY INTERESTING way of rewriting SDF history...but hey...do you.

I resent you telling me to "grow up". It's about respect. I consider anyone who takes shots at someone and then tells them to "grow up" a sociopath. That's not a positive image to have. No, I remember it well, and i'm sure Ralph saves things. he can pull the posts up. It was a political discussion, and you went off on me for allegedly not having my facts straight. Maybe you were PMS'ing or something. I don't know. But I assure you I do not make things up.

[ms_m]

LOL

It's your right to resent anything you like Soulster but it really doesn't matter what I say because you're going to resent whatever it is.

Let's stop beating round the bush and call out the pink elephant in the room. You don't like me and I don't like you...I'm cool with that and seems to me you should continue to ignore me and move on with your life....but it's your decision to make...heaven forbid I suggest something else you will resent.

[ms_m]

...and keep something in mind before you TWIST the story LIKE YOU HAVE DONE since the day you got here MR. Audiophile I get my arse kicked everyday by Mexicans...YOU brought my name into this conversation but I will be MORE THAN HAPPY to finish what YOU started....TRUST!

[moe]

I remember Isaiah, too!!

[ms_m]

I remember Isaiah, too!!

Hey Moe how ya bee? :)

yep you use to hang out with us over at Juices place too....I remember....LOL.... Isaiah wasn't a bad person once you understood his ways and although many peopl didn't like the way he said things he was honest about his feeling.

Ya'll remember Baoi? [[sp) He's another one I miss. Didn't always agree with him either and I personally think he got a raw deal but he kept it real too.

[ms_m]

Oldies probably remembers this and I forget if their was a name for it but Bobby Eli use to do these word puzzle type post where he would put a group of words together and you had to figure out the title of the song based on the meaning of the groups of words. It was really cool and made you THINK...

There were silly post too...Kamasu's post about doing Da Butt in church still makes me laugh when I think about it and although I wasn't a part of Malcatraz I did read the post and they were hilarious but the intelligent quotient even in Malcatraz was top notch....

I realized you can't go back to the past but I have to agree the TMZ feel really is mind numbing.

[edafan]

Ralph,

This forum is great.

Next time someone acts up,
we should put them in a sound booth,
and make them listen to every Mantovani recording

edafan

[soulster]

LOL

It's your right to resent anything you like Soulster but it really doesn't matter what I say because you're going to resent whatever it is.

That's not true. I didn't write what I did above to inflame or insult, but simply to let you know that some people may perceive your attitude differently than you may think they do. There is always a better way to present your argument than to get personal about it. We can all learn from each other, and if someone thinks they can't possibly learn anything positive from someone else, they have issues.

Now, if I come across a person who presents a, say, racist attitude, or belief, unless that person is being obnoxious or offensive, I will say that the person holds racist beliefs. That is not calling them a racist. If the person really isn't one, they may step back and consider what they say or do, and how others perceive it. If I just say they are a racist, that makes them defensive, and may become belligerent.


Let's stop beating round the bush and call out the pink elephant in the room. You don't like me and I don't like you...I'm cool with that and seems to me you should continue to ignore me and move on with your life....but it's your decision to make...heaven forbid I suggest something else you will resent.

I never said I didn't like you. I have always said that I highly respect your political views and agree with them. You have to really know someone to hate them, and we have never met. I know where we got off on the wrong foot, and it was about two years ago when I used to kid about you acting like my sister. That offended you, and we have been advisories ever since. I made those remarks in good humor, but obviously, you didn't take them that way.

If you don't like me, that's your bag. I can't do anything about it. You apparently have your mind made up that I am obnoxious, dumb, racist, or whatever else you think I may be. And I do think you have a superiority complex. I would simply like to get along. We don't have to be pals or anything, just to respect each other, even if we don't agree with something one of us says.

[ms_m]

You really don't get it...whether you like me or not I DO NOT LIKE YOU and that goes double for RESPECT. I don't owe you anything I do not believe you deserve....we were...strike that, I was doing great not ever having to speak to you in life until YOU decided to bring my name into this conversation. Stay out of my way, keep MY name out of your post and life will go on without us ever having anything to do with each other.

[ralpht]

Thank you edafan, not a bad idea.

Ms.M and Soulster,
I think you guys have gone as far as you can with your differences. Why not move on?

[soulster]

Thank you edafan, not a bad idea.

Ms.M and Soulster,
I think you guys have gone as far as you can with your differences. Why not move on?

I sure can. We have now all seen who the bigger adult in the room is here. :)

I'm outta this thread.

[ms_m]

which is why I wrote


Stay out of my way, keep MY name out of your post and life will go on without us ever having anything to do with each other.

Ralph I don't have a problem with moving on....I moved on when I was "supposedly" ignored by Soulster but you know me well enough to understand...you start BS with me...you get BS back.

Out of respect for you...I will end it now UNLESS Soulster continues , at that point you will probably have to ban me.... and life will go on and a lot of people will do a happy dance!

[ms_m]

Bye..

.................................................. ..........:mad:

[oldiesmusicfan]

Well, I had signed in, spent an hour and a half composing my post, clicked preview and up pops "you are not signed in" and lost the entire post. So you won't be hearing what I had to say. I'll just say, I'm here, appreciate the site as much as I always have since 2004, but can't spend as much time here as I used to. Hope certain posters are never allowed back on the site [[read all those old deleted threads to refresh your memory of why.)

Hello ol' stinky MsM! hahahaha I think what was posted was "I bet you smell." I almost fell of my chair laughing and have gone back and reread our emails about it countless times just for the laugh. I remember thinking "are we in kindergarten now?"

Maybe more later when I can spare the time.

Oldies

[ms_m]

I remember thinking "are we in kindergarten now?"

hahahahahahahaha

I can't begin to tell you how many times I've thought the SAME THING on numerous occasion in numerous situations since joining SDF....HAHAHAHAHAH

It is what it is, Oldies...shrugs...you stay or walk away and sometimes you take a break but as the Tempt's would say, I'm Still Here.

That says a lot about this place because there are more than a few forums I do not have any desire to ever visit again....The friendships and laughs that were originated here are some of the best. I guess the magic will always be in the memories.....and the people that made them happen and you guys [[and you all know who you are whether I have mentioned your name or not) will ALWAYS be a part of those memories. I click my glass of Jai's special elixir to all of you:cool:

[ralpht]

Now, that's the spirit.............

[snakepit]

Snakepit, the U.K. members are really not much different than the U.S. members. We love all things about Motown, and in the 60s, people were not obsessed with the Supremes as this forum's membership would have you believe.

When I was growing up, Motown was a sound, a brand. It's these current Supremes fanatics that confuse the issue here.

Hello Soulster

Firstly, I do NOT speak for all the UK guys who have left, or just lurk ,but no longer get involved.
However I think the issue for many is the "relevance" of the numerous Supremes threads to Motown.90% appear to have nothing to with the music or any link to the label we love.
Most of us don't , or didn't, read any of them, so it's not about catfights or insults.
But all these topics are about Mary, Cindy , Diana et all .....and the subject matter is so far removed from Motown Topics that it destroys the idea of the forum.
5 years ago I wouldn't have had any hesitation in recommending a Motown fan to SDF [[Motown Forum).Now?
I'd be embarrased to send them here to be honest....
The vast majority of members who contributed about the label, history and THE MUSIC have left the building.

[ms_m]

Now, that's the spirit.............

Oldies keeps me honest and brings out the good side of me....but lets not get it twisted....the toast only reaches so far:cool:

[BobC]

I have a headache.

[ralpht]

Me too, Bob.

[destruction]

This is my intro post.....I have a LOT more to say on this subject and other issues that are mentioned in this thread.

Over the past [[fill in the blank) months, SDF has been dying a slow death. On some days SDF has had fewer than 10 posts....over 24 hours. Whether from Infection [[the unnamable threads) or Defection [[the loss of "quality" or veteran posters).....when you consider the membership numbers here..... as Moe called it.....it's been Bankrupt.

Ralph......you asked for suggestions.....let me begin:

1. Some people have complained that there are too many threads here dealing with the Supremes..... Not that the Supremes aren't a relevant topic, but that a lot of these threads focus on inane topics and often degenerate into personal issues and attacks. Some people attribute it to a "fanboy" [[Stu's fave expression) mentality. Who knows for sure?

On the other hand, to paraphrase and scandal Bankrupt Dave .....if it wasn't for those threads..... wouldn't be no threads at all. And as others have chimed in.... Don't get in if you don't fit in.

You've indicated that sometimes you pluck out offending posts and posters with tweezers.....and sometimes you just hammer entire threads to death..... and that you'd prefer not to do either hope that people would simply behave.
As BobC intimated, sometimes these threads are eye-openers regarding things about the Supremes that are both interesting and not widely known. The only problem that I have with some of these posters is when they drag their personal issues into other threads and over time, pollute the posts that are legit..

One thing that I found funny while reading this thread is that I'd bet good money, not "mf" money, that the "Supremes" [[not name calling, but for brevity's sake) posters are probably dialing in here. I wonder how what they're thinking....and would like to hear it.

My suggestion [[finally 'spirit of JF leave my body after this).....I'll start a thread, in the Motown forum, asking all Supremes/Motown posters to chime in with their own suggestions on what can be done to clean up this issue. Also i would hope they would use this thread to clarify their own positions and that they would add whatever relevant bits of information they feel might help us out of this morass.

Ralph, with your permission and assistance, I'd like to moderate this thread. I want people to speak candidly....but without obvious PERSONAL attacks and to tone down the venom. Speak in a way that lets the rest of us know, why you enjoy posting here. What you like to contribute.....what you like to walk away with. And please be open to follow up questions regarding whatever you choose to post. I'll do my best to keep it civil, interesting and informative.

By the time you read this......the thread will be open.

I'd like to tackle the Defections and other issues, especially Amnesty, when I return. Thx......D.

[BobC]

I like Rick's posts about the behind-the-scenes stuff. I especially like hearing about how certain great records, which could've been hits, weren't, due to politics, legal actions--those kinds of things. I love that stuff.

[ralpht]

Des,
Thank you for the interest in the forum. By all means, moderate any and all Supremes related topics. I would very much appreciate that. Would you like me to set you up with full moderator capabilities?

[mellow_q]

Over the course of three pages of this thread and the obligatory cat-fighting, no one has mentioned the real reason why SDF has been dying a slow death for the past three years. The answer is in one word ...

FACEBOOK

It's the answer to "Where's [[fill in the blank)"?
"How come [[fill in the blank) doesn't post here anymore"?

Like booze and reefer, it' simply a matter of switching one high for another.


Just my two cents.
Marc Taylor

[destruction]

mellow_q

Facebook is probably a contributing factor.....and you make an excellent point......

but I'm not sure it's the Comet that extinquished the dinosaurs from the planet.

Didn't most people simply add reefer to their booze......rather than switch?

[destruction]

Let me also add.....if someone would like to make a private remark, pls don't hesitate to email me or PM me here.

I PROMISE you confidentiality and privacy.....and stand on my Prior record of doing that.

email addy.....written to protect from spam: nel son st 1988 @ gmail. com

simply remove the spaces.

[paladin]

What up Des.....glad to see ya !



Facebook certainly has impacted the Forum, but not in the way I think Marc describes. I was just thinking the other day about what I like about FB and what I don't.
Like: I like the like button. It expedites your input without having to actually comment.

Dislike: the like button, because its almost like a license to lurk and not say anything.

*Like : You can say what you want within the rules, but in most cases people know who you are and other little things like the city you live in etc, e mail addy's . Its a social network all right but people generally exchange information about mutual interests. Like the forum there are several groups I belong to that are quite similar to the make up of this forum. Primarily folks from the UK and other like minded indiviuals who talk/comment and debate ad nauseum about the music we profess to love.


*The forum has a place like that and maybe if we could tweak it a bit, it would be more conducive to people keeping their ego's in check and personal attacks to a minimum, I recall posting pictures of Stars from concerts, images of the entire Chicago Crew, and others [[ with their permission of course) because it was topical, and provided a foundation for the subject thread. Plus we didn't have a dam thing to hide, I once even took a picture of a certain members "shoes" which seemed to have a life of their own and had big fun extending a thread because of it.


No offense to anyone here but for whatever reason FB appears to have less kooks than SDF..........now that I think of it, I must be kinda wacky myself .......been here a long time.....hmmmmmmmmm.........

[BobC]

Actually I work indirectly for Facebook, and this forum is not dying, and Facebook is not longer growing as much as people have been led to believe.

[marv2]

What up Des.....glad to see ya !



Facebook certainly has impacted the Forum, but not in the way I think Marc describes. I was just thinking the other day about what I like about FB and what I don't.
Like: I like the like button. It expedites your input without having to actually comment.

Dislike: the like button, because its almost like a license to lurk and not say anything.

*Like : You can say what you want within the rules, but in most cases people know who you are and other little things like the city you live in etc, e mail addy's . Its a social network all right but people generally exchange information about mutual interests. Like the forum there are several groups I belong to that are quite similar to the make up of this forum. Primarily folks from the UK and other like minded indiviuals who talk/comment and debate ad nauseum about the music we profess to love.


*The forum has a place like that and maybe if we could tweak it a bit, it would be more conducive to people keeping their ego's in check and personal attacks to a minimum, I recall posting pictures of Stars from concerts, images of the entire Chicago Crew, and others [[ with their permission of course) because it was topical, and provided a foundation for the subject thread. Plus we didn't have a dam thing to hide, I once even took a picture of a certain members "shoes" which seemed to have a life of their own and had big fun extending a thread because of it.


No offense to anyone here but for whatever reason FB appears to have less kooks than SDF..........now that I think of it, I must be kinda wacky myself .......been here a long time.....hmmmmmmmmm.........

Pictures! I like that idea I really enjoy seeing the pictures from events or gatherings that members have attended.

[soulster]

Hello Soulster

Firstly, I do NOT speak for all the UK guys who have left, or just lurk ,but no longer get involved.
However I think the issue for many is the "relevance" of the numerous Supremes threads to Motown.90% appear to have nothing to with the music or any link to the label we love.
Most of us don't , or didn't, read any of them, so it's not about catfights or insults.
But all these topics are about Mary, Cindy , Diana et all .....and the subject matter is so far removed from Motown Topics that it destroys the idea of the forum.
5 years ago I wouldn't have had any hesitation in recommending a Motown fan to SDF [[Motown Forum).Now?
I'd be embarrased to send them here to be honest....
The vast majority of members who contributed about the label, history and THE MUSIC have left the building.

That's long been a complaint of mine, that these Supremes/Ross/Wilson-whatever threads have nothing to do with the music itself, but the gossip. I will participate in one of those threads if it's about music. But, when certain members start the bitch-slapping, I'm outta there!

[soulster]

Des,
Thank you for the interest in the forum. By all means, moderate any and all Supremes related topics. I would very much appreciate that. Would you like me to set you up with full moderator capabilities?

If you do that, I can remind you of certain unprovoked hostile posts he has made against me. You want a mod who has no gripe with anyone.

[paladin]

Soulster, everyone has probably had similar unprovoked activities, what makes you so special ? I didn't see where you offered to do a dam thing to resolve some of these issues.......now you want to deter the Godfather from a timely resolution to this mess ? ......jeez.......seems to me you have a lot of pent up hostility over nothing.......since you commented on all the bitch slapping...then who pray tell, is zooming who ? The Godfather himself has said lets have some peace and understanding and you're still stuck on stupid ? This has gotten embarrassing........not for the forum, but for you.............please allow yourself to put me on ignore and I shall do likewise................

[paladin]

@Marv, I have posted pictures of the Dells, Ojays, Confunkshun, Dazz Band, Barkays, Michael Henderson, Switch, Betty Lavette, Ledisi, Impressions, Russell & New Stylistics, Slave, Hugh Masekela, and many others at different concerts and gatherings ......some posts were received very well , others died but I did it because of my love of photography and the groups........and I find myself shaking my head at all of this personal BS and analysis by paralysis.... but thats a topic for another thread.......

[marv2]

@Marv, I have posted pictures of the Dells, Ojays, Confunkshun, Dazz Band, Barkays, Michael Henderson, Switch, Betty Lavette, Ledisi, Impressions, Russell & New Stylistics, Slave, Hugh Masekela, and many others at different concerts and gatherings ......some posts were received very well , others died but I did it because of my love of photography and the groups........and I find myself shaking my head at all of this personal BS and analysis by paralysis.... but thats a topic for another thread.......

Kdub, I remember your posts with the concert pictures. I use to really look forward to each batch. I love photography too and have done my share of concerts back in the day.

Regarding all the personal BS. I knew it was coming to this for about 2 and half, maybe three years. I know exactly where it is coming from, where it started and the parties that are perpetuating it. Because of that , I get jumped on. It's like cyber bullying by people that wouldn't dare look my way in the real World. They want attention mostly, but they do get way out of hand at times.

Anyway, is it possible, I mean when you get the time and you feel like it to do a "Best Of" type thread from all of your great pics?

[soulster]

Soulster, everyone has probably had similar unprovoked activities, what makes you so special ? I didn't see where you offered to do a dam thing to resolve some of these issues.......now you want to deter the Godfather from a timely resolution to this mess ? ......jeez.......seems to me you have a lot of pent up hostility over nothing.......since you commented on all the bitch slapping...then who pray tell, is zooming who ? The Godfather himself has said lets have some peace and understanding and you're still stuck on stupid ? This has gotten embarrassing........not for the forum, but for you.............please allow yourself to put me on ignore and I shall do likewise................

I never said I was special or better. I also do not have anything against this godfather. But, I just pointed out that he/she has made some nasty comments to me in the past with no reason. Like I said, I am a moderator on another forum, and I know that a mod can't be making personal digs at the membership and command respect. The head mod there does, and I don't approve of it. He gets away with it because he is perhaps the most knowledgeable guy there.

Now, I don't know why this godfather ever attacked me, but I would think that if he ever took action against me, it would always have that cloud of it being personal.

If I were mod, I would not allow people to call each other stupid.

[paladin]

@ Soulster : Ok..... last post from me on this subject direct from the Forrst Gump handbook :........Ralph is The Godfather.........get it ?

@ Marv, thats a good idea......I'm not Juice but I shall take your comments under advisement....lol.........its gonna take some digging......

[ralpht]

Soul,
When did I make nasty comments to you?

[soulster]

Soul,
When did I make nasty comments to you?

Not you...Destruction. I only wanted to point it out. I would just like an explanation from him of why. This goes back to the old forum.

[ralpht]

Soul,
Why are you digging so far back into the past? That was then, this is now. Leave things be.

[BobC]

I can't even remember what happened yesterday. The answer to all these problems is to become senile like me, or go to many, many Happy Hours.

[destruction]

Not you...Destruction. I only wanted to point it out. I would just like an explanation from him of why. This goes back to the old forum.

3 things.

1. Either post or PM whatever posts you'd like to discuss where you were ATTACKED.......and remember....unprovoked doesn't mean unwarranted. And I'll be more than willing to discuss...... and then maybe I'll point out a few things that you've posted in the past......in the words of Pauley....capice? Or let it go.

2. When exactly did you join SDF?

3. BOO!

Isn't that what ghosts do?

and Kdub,

Thanks for making my load lighter.....because you've posted at least half what I wanted to say....and done it more succinctly

[destruction]

Marv,

"Regarding all the personal BS. I knew it was coming to this for about 2 and half, maybe three years. I know exactly where it is coming from, where it started and the parties that are perpetuating it. Because of that , I get jumped on. It's like cyber bullying by people that wouldn't dare look my way in the real World. They want attention mostly, but they do get way out of hand at times. "


I'd love to hear your side of this. Can you either email or PM me with what's on your mind..... I'd even be willing to talk live....either on the phone or chat.

Looking forward to hearing from you.

[oldiesmusicfan]

If I may butt in -

Ralph, I believe Soulster is referring to this latest edition of the forum when we all had to re-register, not the "old" forum before the big blow-up.

Soulster, if I remember correctly Destruction came down hard on you because you were having a word battle with a friend of his. Right or wrong, and I'm not passing judgement on anyone here, we all need to cool it. You said above that you are the bigger person, then why keep questioning someone's motive for saying what they did? If you felt someone was being a fool on the forum, why would you then do the same thing back at them? I have no problem with you personally, so please don't take what I've said as a personal insult to you. I understand your frustration about no one posting on some of your threads because we have all had the same thing happen to us.

Everyone - MANNERS are not displayed on the forum now like they used to be, so hopefully this thread will highlight the need for everyone to behave on the forum as they would in public. I've answered questions for people, created trivia threads that were a lot of fun for the participants and have emailed a few songs and photos to some forum members. A few times I haven't even gotten a thank-you for these personal connections, and for sure those ungrateful ones won't receive more help from me in the future. But for the most part, people on this forum are great, on-line, in emails and in person.

A plea to Ralph about re-instating certain members who were banned in the past - Go back and read all those posts that caused the bannings in the first place, and see if that's what you want back on the forum. If you don't still have them saved somewhere, I know there are others who do have them and would share them with you. Have these former members actually asked to get back on the forum? Offered to apologize to those they verbally attacked? I know you're aware that there was another forum where the truth finally came out to those who so loyally followed. Not a lot of people on this current forum actually know what happened back then, either because they were not members at that time or because they didn't see the offending threads before they were removed.

For now I'm ending my comments because I don't want to lose another long post after spending so much time on the other one only to have it disappear into thin air. I should write it up in a word document and then cut and paste it I guess.

Oldies

[ralpht]

Oldies,
I understand your concern, but I'm still willing to give things a chance to turn around. I'm not asking anyone to accept this, when I feel I was treated about as badly as anyone can be at that time. Let me remind, that the worst hit the fan the weekend of my wedding to Jesse. and then I short time later I became quite ill and was made fun of by the other side. I'm willing to let all of this go and and asking long term members to do the same. Besides, how can we be sure that some of these people will want to rejoin SD?

[ms_m]

Yeah the sht really did hit the fan on your wedding day but Ralph there were a lot of mini feuds going on that all lead up to the big bang....ironically, I happen to run into one of the offending parties while visiting Detroit and the back peddling and finger pointing was a sight to behold....plus I didn't have to spend a dime on drinks that night....LOL... A similar situation happened to Juice and a few others.

People make mistakes but I don't think they need to be defined by those mistakes for life....and neither side was TOTALLY INNOCENT anyway...

...and like you said, some folks may not even want to come back...and there is always the zap button if it gets crazy again....LOL

[oldiesmusicfan]

Ralph, I sure do remember the way you were treated on your wedding day and before and after that. I have no problem with whatever you decide on this issue, just expressing my opinion.

When you ask above "how can we be sure that some of these people will want to rejoin SD", well, that's why I asked the question about whether any of them had requested to be allowed back on the forum because I thought I had seen you mention that you were toying with the idea. I also asked if anyone has ever received a personal apology from those that were banned.

Their behavior was never directed at me, but I and most other forumers who saw it were offended by the viciousness of it. I would hope that kind of thing never happens again because we did lose a lot of first-hand knowledge when those people left the forum.

Again - MANNERS, if the rules of the forum are followed, we won't have any of these problems. How about make a Rules thread that stays at the top of the heap like the Promotion thread, then newbies would be sure to see it and it would serve as a reminder to us all on a daily basis. I was thinking that if we would have had a Promotion thread back then, perhaps the big blow-up never would have happened.

Oldies

[ralpht]

Oldies,
As Ms.M wisely points out. if there are problems I have the ZAP button. Hopefully we are entering a new and more civilized version of the forum.

[arrr&bee]

Hey ralph,this is the best post i've seen in awhile why....because folks are talking this is like the old days when it seemed like we would talk more,it seems that lately two or three folks might make a comment and that's it but this post has got folks ears perked up yeah some may be pissed about this and that but families do that[and yes we are family]so let's keep the conversation going...and by the way where is stu???

[ms_m]

Oldies I can't speak for anyone but me but personally, I don't need or want an apology for anything that was directed at me....I was highly entertained by the stuff I was hit with, with the exception of a private email that went public and I did receive an apology for that so I'm cool

....the wedding day thing was beyond the pale and I think it speaks volumes about Ralph [[in a good way) that he would even entertain the idea.

I really like the suggestion about the rules being permanently posted though but I think people would also have to understand moderators get to have discretion on how they enforce rules....Ralph said something that was very true...this is a free site...although donations are very much appreciated [[plug for Lowell:))

so we all have to understand, when you're on a free site, having your demands met may not be the order of the day.

As far as manners....Kdub mentioned there are less nuts on Facebook....I think that's because anonymity is not as high there as in places like SDF...

I'm all for manners but even manners are sometimes in the eye of the beholder...I can say one thing to you and or Des and neither one of you would think twice about it but I may say the exact same thing to someone else and lawd love a duck all hell breaks loose....then again Oldies...as you know and as I have often said...PC speak is not at the top of my list of priorities....I guess judging manners on an Internet forum will always be done on a case by case basis...shrugs

[ralpht]

Arr&Bee,
I agree. It is nice to see folks talking things out. Have you been lacing them with your finest?

[arrr&bee]

jai, we all know why you're happy........haaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa... paladin forever..haaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa! !!

[Roberta75]

That's long been a complaint of mine, that these Supremes/Ross/Wilson-whatever threads have nothing to do with the music itself, but the gossip. I will participate in one of those threads if it's about music. But, when certain members start the bitch-slapping, I'm outta there!

No offense but that's a bit of a stretch soulster. There are many times you are right in the thick of the Supremes/Ross/Wilson threads. For instance you posted about a dozen times in the silly thread about whether DR bleaches her skin.

[paladin]

Soulster, if I remember correctly Destruction came down hard on you because you were having a word battle with a friend of his. Right or wrong, and I'm not passing judgment on anyone here, we all need to cool it. You said above that you are the bigger person, then why keep questioning someone's motive for saying what they did? If you felt someone was being a fool on the forum, why would you then do the same thing back at them? I have no problem with you


Exactly........




directed at Soulster ...........2. When exactly did you join SDF?




Whoa, I thought the same thing............


We appear to be getting somewhere...finally..........

@ Jai......I'd join you anytime my friend thanks...........

Lastly, I was here for the big blow up and it was ugly. The rationale was certainly flawed but the truth was worse. We don't ever need another. Ralph was definitely a better moderator than I would have been and he was certainly a better man throughout all the helter skelter. Not only would I have zapped the participants but quit the job outright ......maybe I would have just blew up the forum and started over. This thread is really an extension of that time and that happening. Those of us who were here never want to see it happen again. It won't.....but we have to start somewhere.....

[ralpht]

Well said, Kdub.

[blueskies]

Didn't Bob Babbit used to be on this board? I thought I remember reading some of his guitar stories from the old board days.
Also, some guy from the Netherlands used to post stuff on the Three Degree's a lot. Haven't seen him around for ages? There's so many that come to mind....I miss their posts.

[moe]

R&B, I said the same thing: exactly where is Stu? See my old post.........
Blueskies: I do believe Bob Babbitt comes in from time to time, right Ralph? When he does post it's usually late.
KDub; good post.

[juicefree20]

I guess that there's a negative to writing long posts. I just wrote a pretty well thought-out post [[if I do say so myself) explaining my absence & when i pushed "send', I discovered that I had been logged-off.

That's no way to treat a guy.

Seriously, I've been gone awhile & it seems as though I haven't missed a thing, as there was a bit of dissension during my last visit. I need to read through this thread & try to offer a halfway reasonable assessment. But thus far, I do agree with GeeTee.

I stopped posting reviews & pictures when it became apparent that folks preferred arguing over who did what to who in 1966, whose career was destroyed by whom 45 years ago [[for the 300,679,256th time), than were interested in nothing more than their favorite 2 artists, as though life ceased to move forward since 1969 & there are no other artists worth discussing.

When there are 10 times more views for threads filled with arguing than there are for the death of Al Goodman or artists whom are performing & trying to survive today, then there's simply something wrong. ESPECIALLY when these artists are still kicking butt today.

As for any former forum members, I've run into quite a few just as I knew that I would. I've gotten Facebook friend requests, gotten a lot of smiles in person & things played out as I always knew that they would. While I have no real animosity toward any of them as that would be a tremendous waste of energy over a 5 or 6 year span, Im not accepting any friend requests, nor do I want to be that closely linked to most of them. Some I blame more than others because some simply got caught up in the madness because of what they felt that they had to gain.

But leopards don't usually change their spots. Some of the same folks whom were egomaniacal here 5 & 6 years ago, are just as egomaniacal today. All that you have to do is read Facebook to understand this. somewhere along the way, if we're truly sorry about a certain mode of behavior, we learn from our mistakes & moved away from them. But when you see someone who has no restraints still carrying on then one must realize that what you see is what you get. As they say, "fool me once, shame on you...fool me twice, shame on me".

That truth is what we're really dealing with & unhappy people will always say & do unhappy things.

The stroy of the scorpion & the frog seems most appropos!

[juicefree20]

By the way, it's good to know that you're all here & seemingly no worse for the wear :)

[juicefree20]

Now let me go back & read what I missed!

[Doug-Morgan]

Hey Juice, how's it going?

I have a simple solution concerning posts and topics made up of people who only want to argue. I don't read them. The Supremes arguments have been going on for years, and in a way I feel insulated from them because they're hiding in the Motown forum. I'll look at them on occasion, but the petty arguments just aren't worth my wasting time to follow.

As to folks who aren't here much anymore, it happens. People come and go. Sure I miss the folks who were here when I came on board [[as douglasm), but as old folks drop off, new ones come on. I've got no problem with that. I'm on a couple other boards, and the same thing's happened there. Detroit Yes is a good example.

I do think a healthy discussion like this is valuable though, and it appears that this one hasn't gotten too far out of hand, otherwise I wouldn't be posting on it. A little venting is good once in a while, and this one has been reletively tastefull. I appreciate that.

[juicefree20]

Rather than to recreate my entire post that was lost, I'll try the "Cliff's Notes" version. Events at home require more attention than they once did. As things have evolved, I've had to pay closer attention & have to be even more hands-on than in previous times.

Due to this, I've had to scale back my activities...A LOT! These days, I have to pick & choose my spots & have had to put myself on hold for awhile, which is not necessarily the worst that could happen. Because of this, I have distractions, both good & bad. On the bad side, is monitoring my mother's health & the effect that it's having on her. Its hard to know whether it's due to medicine, the ravages of diabetes, or simply an inevitability due to being elderly. She just turned 79, so it's likely a combination of all 3. Unfortunately, this leads to the overall dynamics of our relationship to change & that tends to bring about tension. I imagine that it's annoying for someone to tell you that some of what you believe has happened is either a dream or your imagination or medicine playing tricks on you. I imagine that when you really believe that it's real, it makes you pretty angry & suspicious of the person who has to tell you that it simply in't so.

Unfortunately, I'm that person who has to say it which doesn't exactly win me any prizes, I'll tell you that :)

As most of you know, I also have a handicapped sister, so I can't leave my mother at home with just my sister. If ever there were an emergency, my sister could never explain to anyone what was going on. Due to everyone having off-hours, I don't go anywhere until someone gets home Either way, my focus has been more on dealing with her & less on dealing with me. Right now I just don't have the focus to edit then post a bunch of picture because my mind's just not into it.

On a brighter note, I'm also enjoying my grandson & he's here from Thursday to Sunday, then Saturday on alternating weeks. So when he's here, I don't usually schedule anything. He's at that age where he's always doing something new & he's a ball of energy & I don't want to miss a thing.

So, that's pretty much what's been going on & I had no idea that this was going on. My plan was never to be gone this long, but somewhere along the way, real life got in the way & frankly, I haven't felt too much like getting too deep, much less reading a bunch of adults declaring "war" on one another over nonsense. I'm not feeling that at all & haven't so much as lurked to read it.

[ralpht]

Juice,
It is so good to see you back. You have been missed. Sorry to hear about your mother and sister. I have a slight idea what you are going through, dealing with a 92 year old mother. Anyway, I hope things are smooth enough around here for you to linger once again. Your contributions to this forum are legendary.

[juicefree20]

Hey Doug,

How the heck are you?

I have to agree with you & all whom are against the censoring of threads like The Supremes threads. It's a matter of knowing what you're getting into & many times, that's the best that you can hope for. It's like walking into a brothel, then being surprised should you see a naked woman stroll by. When you know what to expect, then you should know what to expect.

Now with that being said, I do believe that the line needs to be drawn at vicious attacks which actually have little to do with artists, but rather more to do with the protagonists involved. That's simply some personal nonsense which will only fester if not addressed.

I see that even with the passing of months that only one person, Marv is being held responsible for behavior which has been practiced by others. And I notice that this sentiment is expressed via one who called me a racist for defending Marv when he was villified for calling out folks who couldn't contain themselves from disrespecting a memorial thread for Michael Jackson.

It's things like that that perfectly illustrate why peace can be so hard to find. Sometimes you have to give the devil their due & in that instance, some of the people whom left the building were guilty of wrongdoing. Yet, none of that is even acknowledged & as proven above, this is yet another opportunity to lay blame for all ills at the feet of ONE individual, when it's perfectly that there were people on both sides whom were perfectly willing to engage one another.

We all make mistakes & most of us have had our moments which we'd like to have back. But it's that very unwillingness of some to so much as acknowledge that they or their buddies are not beyond reproach which tends to keep the back & forth alive & well. It's as though they're unwilling to acknowledge their own faults or simply believe that trying to justify actions that a whole forum saw is going to make said behavior acceptable.

Kinda like The Jedi-Mind Trick. But everyone's not fooled by that & blaming just ONE guy for the assorted nonsense that we've witnessed coming from BOTH sides simply doesn't pass the sniff test.

And so...the beat goes on....

[ralpht]

Moe,
Yes, Babbitt posts from time to time. I haven't spoke with him in quite a while and have been meaning to call. Maybe this week I'll give it a shot.

[juicefree20]

Hey Ralph!!

How have you & Jessie been?

I'd be lying if I said that it hasn't been a bit challenging & fortunately since I don't have too much hair left up top, I haven't been pulling any out. But yeah...its been a bit exasperating at times. But my mother's still hanging in there & though there are a few hiccups along the way, the ends justify the means. And despite the mood swings & all that comes with it, all that I can do is to pray for more wisdom, more understanding, more patience & to try to understand what's really behind some of what's going on with her.

We're talking about a woman who's always been fiercely independent, more than a firebrand & a very strong-willed woman. It has to be hard to give up that independence & have her child taking on more of a parent role. with the roles somewhat reversed. That knowledge doesn't make it any easier but I'm trying to remind myself that there's a reason. It's kinda hard trying to make someone believe that something that they truly believe has happened really hasn't. And that only leads to a level of distrust & for as much as I read, no book nor article has adequately explained to me how to swim through these unchartered waters.

Maybe it's denial because even though I should've considered the possibility, somehow, I never considered this as a possibility. These are new waters but I imagine that I'll figure it out somewhere along the way. There are a whole lot of people whom have it far worse so, I'm not complaining at all.

Though I have considered taking a college course on primal screaming. Kinda like Tarzan, but without Jane grabbing vine!

I'll leave it at that :)

Ralph, rest assured, there's nothing that went on here that led to my not being here. I was trying to contact you on your birthday & left you a message on Facebook but couldn't find your number. Hell, we've been through "The Streets", "Malletcatraz" & after all of that, everything else is like wading through a inflatable backyard pool wearing scuba gear. In other words...

IT AIN'T THAT DEEP!

It's good to be home & good to see you as always.

[ralpht]

Juice,
I understand the loss of independence. That is my mother's biggest beef about aging. She hates relying on me and Russ, but that is the way it goes. I'll join that primal scream class with you, though.

Yeah, dude. We have been through a lot. It's comforting to have you around.

[juicefree20]

Ralph,

Thanks a lot. I tend to kinda keep to myself in situations like that. No sense in bringing a wet blanket to a party :)

Yeah buddy, I know how you feel. I think that there are a few other avenues that I need to explore here. Hanging around a house much of the time is no good for her. It may be time to try to persuade her to get involved in some kind of program where she can do something, anything because the bed & the tv can be too enticing.

Yeah,it's good to be around friends & that's one thing that you've always been & its good to be able to say that!

[juicefree20]

Ms M made a very good point & its something that more should consider.

Indeed she & I have had a few dust-ups & disagreement & at some point in life, we'll have disagreements with family & the best of friends. What I don't understand is why some have the need to make what could & should be simple disagreements into the Battle Of the Bulge, along with the associated venom. I've had disagreements with "friends" & because I didn't think as they wanted or believed that I should & you'd have thought that someone raped the family dog.

It seems to come down to an all or nothing kind of attitude. Either you agree with me totally or you're an "enemy" & I don't understand that kind of thinking. So it would seem as though it's a matter of control & a true friendship & if you're really lucky, you discover that sooner than later.

But honestly, when you consider some of our biggest blow-outs here, most of them were over some truly ridiculous nonsense, as best evidenced via the Malletcatraz affair. It seems as though we adults seem to expect more from the kids than we're willing to practice ourselves.

I think that some of us adults need to progress past the elementary school stage because from the board room, to Congress to yahoo forums, it appears as though many are firmly locked in that zone.

[oldiesmusicfan]

I'll be your professor in the Primal Scream class. May as well put my experience to good use! My mother is 96 now and is living in a hospice situation in a group home with 5 other ladies with dementia. I went through a lot with her in those 8 1/2 years when I was her only caregiver. The stress took it's toll big time but all is well now.

So it's good to have you back Juice! I'm wondering if there is some time limit on how long we can take to put together a post. I also lost a really long post I had written for this thread. From now on if I have more than a few lines, I will be writing it in Word and then pasting it here.

Oldies

[jillfoster]

When Jill Foster first came here she/he drove me crazy but then I stopped letting my emotions get in the way and started listening to what she was saying....to this day I think she could probably say things differently... so can I... but I don't let that get in the way of what she has to say and although I don't always agree I respect her offerings to a conversation. When I think she's over my personal line of what I accept, I say something to her about it, she listens, agrees or disagree and we move on.

Thanks for understanding, Ms. M... we did butt heads on a few occasions, but I always love debate, as blunt as I may be. And we DO agree on about 90% of political stuff, so it was mostly other stuff that we disagreed on. I'll tell you this, in real life.... I'm a male Mary Richards, too timid to make a scene, so on the internet, I let my hair down and say things how I really feel without compunction, it's kind of like a catharsis for me, but all my feelings that I express are my true feelings.... just ones I don't feel brave enough to express in everyday life, and wish I could. I'll be the first to admit, i'm one of the most judgemental people you will ever meet, but I'm also nice and real easy to get along with. Maybe my true personality doesn't come across on message forums, but I always figured everyone might be different, or not what we expect in real life. I always felt that it's just words on a screen, so we shouldn't give them as much weight as actions, but others might disagree.

[ms_m]

I'm in...been there doing that....hate to tell you Juice, it doesn't get better but you do tend to adjust...I tell myself...dayum, is this what my mom went through with ME when the situation was reversed? That sort of puts things in perspective.....at least for me...everyones situation can be different though...and YEAH Juice is back:):)

[ms_m]

Jillfoster I like a good debate as well and you are good at it without being defensive....that won me over....LOL

With me, what you see is what you get.....sort of.....I think we all have different sides and some are more dominate than others...shrugs...such is life.

[juicefree20]

Hi Oldies,

It's great to see you as always. The same thing happened to me, I must've timed-out too because I lost a post. Granted, perhaps if y posts didn't take on the girth of War & Peace, that might not have happened, but I digress. The funny thing is that before I pressed "send', I thought about highlighting everything, then saving it to paste. genius that I am, I didn't.

As far as the primal screaming, I'll definitely accept you as a coach. I'm sorry to hear about your mother. Fortunately mine isn't at that point. But between diabetes & high blood pressure & a couple of hospital visits over the past 4 years, I'll admit that the future does worry me a bit.

If I had to guess what's happening, it could be the beginning of dementia. There have been a couple of incidents, dating as far back as exactly 10 years ago this month, where it of the blue she ended up somewhat zoned out. We never found out exactly what happened & attributed it to the heart problem that was discovered shortly thereafter. We go through long stretches where everything is alright, then out-of-the-blue...WHAM! A trace shows up for a day or so, then it's back to normal.

These days, it seems to revolve around my grandson & most of it involves her subconscious at work. I know her feelings about a certain relative of his & every now & then she'll say something about this person doing something to my grandson & swear that it happened. I'll explain to her that it never happened & so will my son but she's convinced that we weren't there. Now I know that it had to have been a dream that she had & tell her that, but she's not trying to accept that at all & thinks that I'm defending someone who's done absolutely nothing wrong. Then at other times she seems more accepting but I suspect that she doesn't truly believe but is just letting it go & keeping it on her scorecard until she gets mad.

As far as the stress goes, I try to let her go & if she goes too far then I have to say something to her. The only line that I draw is that I let her know that i'm sorry for what she's gone through but that I'm here to help & have no intentions of being a whipping boy. Sometimes I have to let it out because I saw her go through this with her husband & it was after her became sick that he really became very difficult & that was when her diabetes kicked in. And there's nothing quite like dealing with someone who's angry, frustrated & more vulnerable than they've ever been to bring about a total 180 in their demeanor & attitude.

And when they need to lash out, 9 times out of 10, it's the person who's caring for them that catches the brunt of it. I've seen that happen far too many times not to understand the nature of that illness beast. I believe that there's a certain resentment involved because they're more dependent on you & that lack of control seems to alter the whole relationship.

But you don't get to choose some things & there are just some things that have to be accepted & this change is one of those things. So, I'll keep investigating ways to make the best of things & to find something that will make things a bit easier for her & perhaps actually find something that might actually be more productive for her. making things a bit more difficult is the fact that she can only walk short distances before tiring & arthritis certainly doesn't aid a thing here.

The thing is to keep trying to find a combination that works because I believe that there is one which will. I'm not naive enough to expect a "magic bullet", but merely something which will break up the monotony of her day & help alleviate the effects of cabin fever, so to speak.

I remember being a kid & dreaming about getting my mother a house or something of a material nature. While all of that would've been great, I never dreamed that fate would have it so that the most important thing that she would end up needing from me wouldn't cost a dime, because as it turned out, it proved to be that what she needed from me most of all was my time. Considering all that she's done for all of us kids, that's a rather small price to pay. She sacrificed a lot of her life for her children. I see no reason why I can't sacrifice a little of mine now that the need is here.

I wish the best for you & your mom & it's nice to see you here again. I'll try not to be a stranger if you won't :)

God bless you & your mom.

[juicefree20]

Hey Ms M

How the heck are you? Good to see you here.

Yeah, I kind of know what to expect & honestly, I should've made room for that possibility in my little brain, but simply didn't. I guess that when you've known your mother to have been one way for damn near your whole life, you just expect that it will be that way always. Or I guess that I did.

Nevertheless, it's worth it because my mother has been one hell of a mother, not to mention a champion for people whose causes really had no effect on her one way or the other. We're talking about someone who did battle with Ed Koch, Guiliani, banks, housing & fought for the working class & the poor. If she wasn't the kind of battler & survivor that raised 4 kids, well, some people have crumpled under much less weight than she had to shoulder. With that as fact, I cant really expect her to smile & accept this without getting just a little pissed about it. I just happen to be in the way of the frustration, that's about the most sensible way to look at it.

But truthfully, under the circumstances I know that my tolerance isn't exactly what it might normally be. Adding to that the sorry state of things these days, as well as what I believe to be an unfair & totally irrational response to our President & that all adds up to a person, namely me, not engaging myself with hot button topics in order to protect me from me.

As they say, some times you gotta know when to hold 'em, know when to fold 'em & I felt it best to focus on thing which needed to be dealt with, as opposed to flapping my mouth over the internet to an audience whom either willingly chooses not to get it, or worse.

But you know me, the silence never lasts for too long :)

God to see you Ms M. Take care & God bless!

[marv2]

Marv,

"Regarding all the personal BS. I knew it was coming to this for about 2 and half, maybe three years. I know exactly where it is coming from, where it started and the parties that are perpetuating it. Because of that , I get jumped on. It's like cyber bullying by people that wouldn't dare look my way in the real World. They want attention mostly, but they do get way out of hand at times. "


I'd love to hear your side of this. Can you either email or PM me with what's on your mind..... I'd even be willing to talk live....either on the phone or chat.

Looking forward to hearing from you.


Sure, that would be fine. Do you have a strong heart? Just kidding. I will send you a private message you later in the week.

[GeeTee(HPK)]

Well now, it's been a minute since my last posting on this thread, because I thought it would go nowhere and get lost in the shuffle. Little did I know how many people would respond back,and how this thread would grow!

I was venting,and I meant every word that I said,but I'm glad a few of you see where I'm coming from.

Let me say this, I fully understand that certain things may not go back to the way things were, BUT if someone takes the time to post something of interest, it really doesn't hurt to say something,than to not say anything at all. That was the bottom line of where I was coming from. [[common courtesy)

I pick and choose what I'll respond to,and certain threads I just totally stay away from. I won't lurk, I just don't bother going there.

I didn't mean to ruffle any feathers, I just wanted to see the forum go back to some interesting discussions like we had in the past. Granted, we may agree to disagree,and I'm cool with that. Again, I try to stay away from the nonsense. I am so quickly to just let things be, rather than to go toe to toe with someone that don't me from Adam. [[really,it's not worth it !)

Thanks to those that decided to chime in, and even those that may have come out,just to add a their 2 cents. :)

Ralph, you're alright with me. :cool: If I decide to post anything in the future, hopefully it will be something of interest that people can and a nice friendly discussion. :)

That's where my head is at,from day one. Thanks

[ralpht]

You're cool with me also, GeeTee and your posts are always interesting.

[marv2]

Didn't Bob Babbit used to be on this board? I thought I remember reading some of his guitar stories from the old board days.
Also, some guy from the Netherlands used to post stuff on the Three Degree's a lot. Haven't seen him around for ages? There's so many that come to mind....I miss their posts.

Yeah you mean Gino from Belgium, the Three Degree's guy.

[ms_m]

Juice your tolerance and patience will get there with time, trust me.

I don't think you can really prepare for it Juice and the only people I can truly talk to about it are ones that are either going through it or have been there. It's IMPORTANT you find your own little personal support group...you'll be surprise how much it will help you.

Hang in there...and chk your email.

[destruction]

Juicy Juice,

Is this really you......cause I'm used to you being on your game.....

"1966, whose career was destroyed by whom 45 years ago [[for the 300,679,256th time)"

It was 65 and a half and it was the 300,679,253rd time)...... 3 of them posts were 'me too'.....

Welcome Back.

[destruction]

Sure, that would be fine. Do you have a strong heart? Just kidding. I will send you a private message you later in the week.

I've got grand children......strength is not an option..... Looking forward to it.

Thx, i've received a few already.....and am looking for more.

[marv2]

@ Soulster : Ok..... last post from me on this subject direct from the Forrst Gump handbook :........Ralph is The Godfather.........get it ?

@ Marv, thats a good idea......I'm not Juice but I shall take your comments under advisement....lol.........its gonna take some digging......

Paladin, if you do it [[put up a "Best of " thread), I will buy you your favorite beverage whenever you come to New York! Deal? It is good to have Juice back huh?

Marv

[paladin]

Whoa...!!!! bro'me we can talk Fed Ex for motivation by libation purposes.......I think once everything settles I'll get right to it, right now I'm having a Temptation discussion on another thread with myself.......oh my stars & garters...... how the stars have aligned themselves in our humble abode........

[blueskies]

Yeah you mean Gino from Belgium, the Three Degree's guy.

Thanks, Marv....that's the gentleman. It seems like a long time since he's posted. I enjoyed his pics and updates on The Three Degrees.

[marv2]

Thanks, Marv....that's the gentleman. It seems like a long time since he's posted. I enjoyed his pics and updates on The Three Degrees.


Gino was into it! I know some people poked fun at him, but was into his girls, The Three Degrees! I enjoyed his thread dedicated to them whenever I'd look in from time to time.

[juicefree20]

DES!!!

What's up man & how the heck you been?

I have to say that I'm glad to see you picking up the ball here & are being hands-on about trying to help out here. I don't have the personality for moderation & certainly don't have the temperament for it. I'm a lot less patient than Ralph has been & likely even less forgiving about some things.

You are a most helpful addition, as you have a way of cutting through the bull & calling it like it is. We're cool & you still let me know when you thought that I had said or did something wrong & I respect that, just as I respect Kdub & Ms M for not circling the wagons & defending me when you thought that you were off-base, as more than a few here have done regarding their buddies.

Good to see you here!

[soulster]

No offense but that's a bit of a stretch soulster. There are many times you are right in the thick of the Supremes/Ross/Wilson threads. For instance you posted about a dozen times in the silly thread about whether DR bleaches her skin.

I was simply discussing the issue at hand, not getting personal.

[soulster]

Ralph, I believe Soulster is referring to this latest edition of the forum when we all had to re-register, not the "old" forum before the big blow-up.

Soulster, if I remember correctly Destruction came down hard on you because you were having a word battle with a friend of his. Right or wrong, and I'm not passing judgement on anyone here, we all need to cool it. You said above that you are the bigger person, then why keep questioning someone's motive for saying what they did? If you felt someone was being a fool on the forum, why would you then do the same thing back at them? I have no problem with you personally, so please don't take what I've said as a personal insult to you. I understand your frustration about no one posting on some of your threads because we have all had the same thing happen to us.


I honestly don't know what it was about. But, insulting someone is not the best way to defend your friend in a disagreement. There is a reason Des is on my ignore list, I carefully consider who to place on it. I base it on if I think the person in question is being malicious or not.

This place has always been very clannish, and not very open to "outsiders" if they don't immediately know or understand the dynamics of the relationships.

[soulster]

@ Soulster : Ok..... last post from me on this subject direct from the Forrst Gump handbook :........Ralph is The Godfather.........
get it ?


Again, I had no idea Ralph is referred to as "the Godfather". I have been here since the forum's beginnings ten years ago, but i still don't get all that insider stuff.

For your last post where you said "stuck on stupid", that really was uncalled for. It was. That's the kind of post that perpetuates the hostility here.

[soulster]

Soul,
Why are you digging so far back into the past? That was then, this is now. Leave things be.

Because it was never dealt with. No resolution.

I'm wondering what this thread is supposed to be about if it isn't for letting off steam or dealing with bubbling issues.

If one does not deal with issues, they fester.

Anyway, I have been expressing my concerns via PM. I really wish more people would use it, but people like an audience.

[juicefree20]

I haven't been ripping & running as I used to do, but I have had a chance to catch up with a few artists that we don't often see these days, as well as some that we do. It absolutely kills me that I wasn't able to see Russell Thompkins Jr. & The New Stylistics, as they're right at the top of not merely my favorite performers, but my favorite people. Over the next few days,I'm going to try to put up a few pics from a few of the events of the summer.

[chalky]

I've notice some months ago,how the forum has changed. At one time, this forum use to be very fun to talk about about and,share music etc;. It looks as though quite a few posts only get "lurkers" ,with very few responses. What's going on ? You mean to tell me that we have a bunch on nosey individuals that would rather lurk,than to actually say something ? C'MON, the numbers don't lie ! [[Cat got your tongue ? :mad: )


There's often too much that has nothing to do with Detroit or Soul. Justin Beiber, X-factor, does anyone give a sh*t really? I posted the death of Steve Mancha and got a couple of replies whilst some other non soul, non Detroit topic at the time was buzzing along nicely. You ask a question about Detroit and often nothing comes back. It is one reason why a few I know don't use this site as much.


Detroit was one of if not the greatest City and its soul output was phenomenal. There is so much to talk about and still so much to learn.

[marv2]

There's often too much that has nothing to do with Detroit or Soul. Justin Beiber, X-factor, does anyone give a sh*t really? I posted the death of Steve Mancha and got a couple of replies whilst some other non soul, non Detroit topic at the time was buzzing along nicely. You ask a question about Detroit and often nothing comes back. It is one reason why a few I know don't use this site as much.


Detroit was one of if not the greatest City and its soul output was phenomenal. There is so much to talk about and still so much to learn.

I know what you mean. I was home sick for Detroit years ago when I did a search and come upon this site "Soulful Detroit". I had assumed that there were other current and former Detroiters here so I was excited to join. Later on I learned that I was very much in the minority as there are not many Detroiters here. I love sharing memories and experiences about the Big D. But have come to enjoy learning about other places and music forms/styles.... There is the "DetroitYes Forum" that I never really caught on to, but may give it another shot.

STILL, I wished Detroit and it's musical heritage were a bit more prominent here sometimes.

Marv

[ralpht]

Chalk,
I think it is hard to determine how popular a thread will become. I understand your disappointment with some. I have floated a few myself, thinking the thread would take off, only to watch it die. I guess it boils down to what someone might be interested in at any given time. Don't be discouraged. If you have an idea you think might fly, give it a shot, and let it go where it is going to go.

[Doug-Morgan]

As a guilty party, a lot of that type of thread [[like my "Smile Sessions" one) are floated in The Clubhouse, which is alot more open when it comes to subject matter. Personally, I don't think they belong on the main forum.

In defense of those kinds of threads, one thing I really like is the wisdom available outside of the soulish spectrum that many members here have. On the other hand, people seem a little more touchy about subject matter now than in the old days. I don't know if an "Aarruugghh....." thread would fly nowadays.

By the way Marv, have you looked at the Detroit YES forum? You can go there from here [[look on the banner). If you have a question about the city itself, that's the place to go.

[ralpht]

I agree, Doug. Detroit Yes is an excellent website. Lowell's photographs are priceless.

[pshark]

Do you think this forum software has anything to do with it? I'm guessing that a lot of old-timers just can't get used to it, and the new features. I mean, we even have a convenient way to quote people, but some are probably used to copy+paste.

The one complaint I have is that the administrator won't give us more color scheme options. I'm really starting to hate this bright red. And he still hasn't enabled avatars.Some site owners have been having problems with avatars. https://www.vbulletin.com/forum/showthread.php/390247-User-avatar-not-showing-in-forum-sidebar-[[recent-posts)?highlight=avatars

[shermanb]

I guess I'm one of those Lurker's who Hardly gets involved in these discussions, One of the reasons is I remember a few years back when I posted that I saw Issac Hayes in the National Rehab Hospital in DC, I was blasted by a few members in this forum.
Ralph reached out to me to let me know not to let that kind of stuff bother me but it did and this is one of the few times that I have posted since. I'm sure some of these lurkers feel/felt the same way. I thought I was bringing news to the Forum and got shot down by people claiming to Know and have personal Knowledge of Mr. Hayes. When in fact he was here and sang for me.

[ralpht]

Shermanb,
I'm happy to see you posting once again. Test the waters a bit and, hopefully, what once was is no longer, and you'll rejoin us.

[paladin]

I guess I'm one of those Lurker's who Hardly gets involved in these discussions, One of the reasons is I remember a few years back when I posted that I saw Issac Hayes in the National Rehab Hospital in DC, I was blasted by a few members in this forum.



I'm glad to see you back too, it aint perfect, thats for dam sure but this forum is still head and shoulders above the rest, in fact the Supreme threads have gotten a little......oh never mind......lol........

[marv2]

I'm glad to see you back too, it aint perfect, thats for dam sure but this forum is still head and shoulders above the rest, in fact the Supreme threads have gotten a littel ......oh never mind......lol........

Oh they've gotten ridiculous, come on! You have a guy over there telling me who I don't know and who doesn't know me and he doesn't know anything.......LOL! SDF the best !

[juicefree20]

shermanb,

I very well remember that thread & I remember what happened.

You didn't say anything wrong in that thread, but as I remember it, there was kind of a hush-hush thing happening as regards Isaac & his health & people were being very protective of him.

Despite the fact that most here know that I know & am friendly with quite a few entertainers & am not going to state anything here without their permission, I've still run across a few folks whom will ask for a link or say that they haven't read anything about it on the internet. For example, an entertainer died & I received a phone call from his family asking to post it. His family weren't members of this forum, but the family wanted the information to be reported, so I did it here.

Another thing that some need to consider is that just because you didn't read it on the internet doesn't mean that it's not true. In fact, some people will tell it to people like us before they do mainstream media because we've been on forums such as SDF showing these people respect when it seemed as though the mainstream had forgotten their names & wasn't showing them much love before they died. So, it was kinda like letting family know first BEFORE everyone else, folks whom hadn't usually showing much interest of late.

For some folks, despite the fact that they should know that certain people know what they know, it don't say Haines, unless the mainstream media confirms that it's so. This is expected from a media whom couldn't tell you the whereabouts of the average Classic Soul artist & frankly, hasn't exactly been covering then with any regularity once the hits stopped coming.

Welcome back shermanb & man, don't let anyone dissuade you from writing what you want to write. It could be possible that you beat them to the punch, as they likely feel as though they're supposed to know it & not you.

[soulster]

I guess what is needed is a forum for any and all music that leans toward R&B, and all that encompasses, rather than to have one where the primary attraction is a certain type of music, or location.

[marv2]

shermanb,

I very well remember that thread & I remember what happened.

You didn't say anything wrong in that thread, but as I remember it, there was kind of a hush-hush thing happening as regards Isaac & his health & people were being very protective of him.

Despite the fact that most here know that I know & am friendly with quite a few entertainers & am not going to state anything here without their permission, I've still run across a few folks whom will ask for a link or say that they haven't read anything about it on the internet. For example, an entertainer died & I received a phone call from his family asking to post it. His family weren't members of this forum, but the family wanted the information to be reported, so I did it here.

Another thing that some need to consider is that just because you didn't read it on the internet doesn't mean that it's not true. In fact, some people will tell it to people like us before they do mainstream media because we've been on forums such as SDF showing these people respect when it seemed as though the mainstream had forgotten their names & wasn't showing them much love before they died. So, it was kinda like letting family know first BEFORE everyone else, folks whom hadn't usually showing much interest of late.

For some folks, despite the fact that they should know that certain people know what they know, it don't say Haines, unless the mainstream media confirms that it's so. This is expected from a media whom couldn't tell you the whereabouts of the average Classic Soul artist & frankly, hasn't exactly been covering then with any regularity once the hits stopped coming.

Welcome back shermanb & man, don't let anyone dissuade you from writing what you want to write. It could be possible that you beat them to the punch, as they likely feel as though they're supposed to know it & not you.

Excellent post Juice! Welcome back shermanb! The same thing happened to me a few years ago here. Mary [[Wilson) told me that she had finally started work on her coffee table book and for me to let fans and everyone know. So, I posted that information and as soon as I did, several guys that mostly reside in the Motown thread jumped all over me and said that I was lying. All that does is cause me and others to withold information that would be viewed as exclusive anywhere else. Like Juice, I do not repeat many things told to me by artists and others without their permission. That's just bad business. I understand that some people want to know everything with all the details and that is not always a good thing in my opinion.

Marv

[paladin]

I guess what is needed is a forum for any and all music that leans toward R&B, and all that encompasses, rather than to have one where the primary attraction is a certain type of music, or location.


:eek:????????????????????????????????????????????? ???????????????????:eek:

[marv2]

:eek:????????????????????????????????????????????? ???????????????????:eek:


Stop it! I am sure he knows what he meant! LOL!!!!

[juicefree20]

Soulster,

That is an excellent point & truthfully, a change such as this was inevitable.

It's like loving lobster or steak. No matter how much you love them, you simply cant eat them everyday. How many different ways could you cook them before you ran out of recipes?

Look at it this way, SDF is 10 years old & no matter how great the music & artists are, imagine discussing Detroit music, the whole Detroit music & nothing but Detroit music & artists 7 days a week, 365 days a year, 12 months a year for 10 years. How long could it have possibly been before every topic was thoroughly discussed, beaten to death, then regurgitated, ad infinitum? The what happens is that folks end up tripping over themselves trying to post something...ANYTHING to find something new & different to discuss. And sometimes, that can lead to arguments or just be downright boring to the majority of the forum. As just one example, let's look at those infamous Supremes threads, which need no introduction.

No matter what the ladies may or MY NOT be doing, there's always going to be someone who will find something...ANYTHING to post about them. And no matter how minor, no matter what it is, that is a reason to create all types of thread, even if it's the 9,875,769th discussion about who held their arms up at the 10 & 2 position on Hollywood A Go-Go on a Tuesday night during a thunderstorm, by God, you're going to hear it about again. What coffee did Diana, Mary or Flo drink on the bus of their first Motown Revue & by gum, someones got the answer to that too.

Destiny's Child wore gowns on a tv show & by gum, we're going to read about how their gowns aren't as elegant & besides, Beyonce can't fit a Mackie gown like The Supremes. We've had discussions about things ranging from who slet with hom, who bleached their skin & the only untapped ground seems to be a discussion of what toothpaste was used when they brushed their teeth before their first Sullivan appearance, or their farewell concert.

And because theres relatively precious little NEW things to discuss, there's usually a rehashing of the same old material, which means that the same arguments are rehashed. And even if there were no arguments, you'll have to admit that the average individual who's free of the obsession, simply doesn't get the stories, doesn't much care about the subject matter & really doesn't understand the level of venom which tends to accompany those threads.

But that's cool because they have their space & their place & you may enter at your own risk. but imagine an entire forum full of people trying to find something new & relevant to report, when there's precious little new happening, that is unless someone dies, or there's a new CD release. I just don't see how a forum could survive under those conditions & except for the very early days, just look what happens whenever we discuss certain DETROIT ARTISTS here. Not just currently but even as far back as YEARS ago.

How many threads have there been when one of us discusses Carl Carlton, The Dramatics, Enchantment & dare i say it, even The Four Tops. Go check the archives & see how many responses those threads have received & they were about some well-respected DETROIT ARTISTS & despite pictures & the like being posted, exactly how many of those whom have complained in the past about the deemphasis of Detroit artists so much as bothered to post in those threads.

Answer: DAMN FEW!!!

And in truth, the deemphasis of Detroit artists began when Bobby Eli joined & began bring some great stories about the Philly Sound. Weldon joined in a swell & as many of the records that they were involved with were so popular not just here, but also overseas, the emphasis & focus began expanding beyond Detroit, as music simply doesn't exist in a vacuum, plus the fact that many Detroit artists recorded outside of the city [[Jackie Wilson, Marv Johnson, Eddie Kendricks, anyone?), this only guaranteed that other regions would inevitably become grist for a great deal of discussion here.

Which may not be such a bad thing at all.

[juicefree20]

I think that what Soulster means is that there should be no discrimination against Soul music which emenates from any region, as it's all good.

If Detroit music were all that we discussed here, a whole lot of us would be left out from contributing to these discussions. And by now, there's precious little new ground upon which to tread.

[pshark]

Stop it! I am sure he knows what he meant! LOL!!!!Now if this was a one member forum it wouldn't matter what he meant:confused:

[juicefree20]

Marv,

I do remember that situation, but I guess that it comes down to whether people believe that the information is credible, or rather if the source is credible. Regardless, I do remember that situation.

As for telling people everyting, I am best reminded of what happened when I first posted about Ollie Woodson's illness. All that I did was give the information, asked people to pray for him, then directed everyone to his PERSONAL website.

Despite the fact that if there was anything additional that Ollie wanted people to know, he'd have said so on his website, I had to field questions asking about his illness. Now if a man didn't supply that information on his own site, why in the world would anyone expect me to take it upon myself & post it here?

So sometimes even though you know information about people, you simply can't post it here. I've known about several people & their illnesses or some other personal thing. But when people trust you to keep your lips shut, you simply keep your lips shut. And every now & then I'd come here before I checked my e-mail to read that someone had died. More often than not, it wasn't a surprise to me because I knew that they weren't doing too well, but that information wasn't for public consumption & that's something that I have to respect.

I guess it is what it is.

[chalky]

Soulster,
And in truth, the deemphasis of Detroit artists began when Bobby Eli joined & began bring some great stories about the Philly Sound. Weldon joined in a swell & as many of the records that they were involved with were so popular not just here, but also overseas, the emphasis & focus began expanding beyond Detroit, as music simply doesn't exist in a vacuum, plus the fact that many Detroit artists recorded outside of the city [[Jackie Wilson, Marv Johnson, Eddie Kendricks, anyone?), this only guaranteed that other regions would inevitably become grist for a great deal of discussion here.

Which may not be such a bad thing at all.

It is no bad thing and we should have more.

I fully understand if it was simply Detroit not much would be said but what is X-Factor and Justin Beiber doing on a Soul Forum?

There is loads of soul to discuss and plenty inn here who have been involved in the creation of some of the finest music on earth...lets hear more about this.

Personally think the forum is great, a mine of information when needed and some great stories, especially in the archives.

[soulster]

Stop it! I am sure he knows what he meant! LOL!!!!

Yes, I do. I mean another message board. I should set one up. The reason I thought this is because this forum is focused on Detroit and "Northern" soul, and most of the membership likes it that way. It also makes it kind of an exclusionary club populated with those who were there back in the 60s, which also pushes up the age demographic. And, if one's interest in soul music is wider than the main focus of this forum and it's inhabitants, the solution is another message board entirely. I need to create one. I just can't afford it.

Juice, thank you for so eloquently explaining exactly what it is I meant for the comprehension-challenged among us.

It seems there are many who like things the way they are, so why fight it?

There is so much to R&B music! There's R&B music that spans decades, defies location, and is stylistically diverse. There are younger people who are fans of the music that just do not relate to all the interpersonal relationships of the Motown people who were there. Those who do not fit into the exclusive club, are not as fanatical as the rest of the Supremes fans, or, who are not familar with, or enamored of certain longtimers, are seen as troublemakers.

[paladin]

This is a very good thread. Excellent, reminds me of the old days, but I have to disagree with some of the positions taken here by various members.
I shall try to be brief because the thread has taken on a different life and direction to include the diversity of the forum and the topics discussed therein.

This is one of the most diverse forums I've ever been associated with. Whether someone posts on Justin Bieber, The Temptations or God forbid...Tony Turner, its really all cool with me because I don't have to read it, encourage it or discourage it. Quite like I do the Supreme threads. Secondly during the time that I've been here we have probably discussed every Detroit Entertainment related topic that there is to discuss. Thats a given. But we have also had threads on Jazz, pop and blues artists although they were not as popular, we had them. You never know what thread is [[sans Supremes) will take off and generate legitimate and intelligent conversation. I personally like the Temptations but rarely start a thread on them and usually I'll try to get in where I fit in if someone thats new to the forum has a concept or someone that's old to the forum [[ like Jai) comes up with a new angle and we all know where he gets his inspiration.

Motown has a legacy and even though we have now become our parents and grandparents, there will always be conversation about that magical time in history. It may not be as heated or debated, but the legacy will endure. The so called deemphasis of all things Detroit and Bobby Eli and Weldon were mentioned prominently, added a new zest to the forum because it actually revealed another side of the business and how Motown's many contemporaries not only competed but became successful in their own right. I will always appreciate their contributions and it made the forum better. A rather famous Philly component of this forum is Russell Thompson and the New Stylistics and their long running thread is a testament to the diversity and participation in this forum.

Juice, I will take it under advisement that you have taken it upon yourself to explain something for someone else. I shall leave it at that. The legacy of Motown will outlast us all. I have written many times that we should be setting the example for those young folk that will follow us and encourage them to join us for the sake of enlightenment, entertainment and in some small way education. But realistically some things about the forum will probably never change, there are quite a few people here who continue to grind axes and all they have left is a handle. Let me begrudgingly illustrate; A forum member has been responding to something he posted about a Motown TV show for more years than I can count ! Now I ask you does anybody really care ? Whether it happened or not do we [[ the forum et al) really give a dam? Let it go people and let's move on. That has about as much chance of flying as Jai has of not drinking his hooch........the more things change the more they remain the same.

We're only here for a minute, lets use that time wisely.

[ralpht]

I remember when Bobby Eli first came on the scene. He and I hit it off rather well. I was in the middle of writing the Tera Shirma webisode for David Meikle, who was running the show at the time. Bobby asked David if he could contribute something, but David was reluctant, wanting to keep the website pure Detroit, in keeping with the name. Well things changed. Bobby came on and was a hit. He actually played on the very first rhythm date at Tera Shirma Studio B, brought in by the legendary Mike Terry. The Dude had Detroit cred, besides all the Philly you could handle.

As far as I'm concerned, Soulful Detroit represents music..period. That is what we should all be about here. R&B, Rock, Blues, Polkas...name it. We will cover it.There is so much to learn from such a diverse group of people that come here. I will never discourage anyone wanting to post about the music that interests them.

[soulster]

I just get the vibe that some really resent the discussion of more than Detroit music and artists on this forum.

[ralpht]

I wish they wouldn't, Soul. There is a lot of room here for everyone.

[pshark]

There's often too much that has nothing to do with Detroit or Soul. Justin Beiber, X-factor, does anyone give a sh*t really?
OK I posted an article on why Dexter Heywood a Memphis Soul singer & lead singer of the 80's group, Xavion, which I was unfamiliar with wanted to leave X Factor. His complaint of the show was the choice of watered down pop tunes he was forced to sing instead of the rock & soul songs that he's accustomed with, like the JB classic from his first XF audition. And I personally applaud him putting more value in his integrity than in the X Factor politics. So tell me, besides him not being from Dtown, what was wrong with my post?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_H6LAwAjlW8


I posted the death of Steve Mancha and got a couple of replies whilst some other non soul, non Detroit topic at the time was buzzing along nicely. You ask a question about Detroit and often nothing comes back. It is one reason why a few I know don't use this site as much.
But the next day there was another thread confirming his passing. Not a whole lot of responses but enough to call it a thread. I guess the reasons that you didn't get a response is the lack of info.
http://soulfuldetroit.com/showthread.php?1756-Steve-Mancha-passes&highlight=mancha
http://soulfuldetroit.com/showthread.php?1752-Steve-Mancha-R.I.P.&highlight=mancha
But I agree with you, I don't how the rule got broken of posting non related Detroit subjects. I think an "other music" section can be a good idea

[GeeTee(HPK)]

I agree. I became a member of SDF,because I was told to take a look at this site. I joined,and I was pleased how this site have many topics to discuss. Variety is the spice of life. :)

I know that many people have left,and the forum has changed slightly,but I didn't want to leave the forum.

As I posted from the beginning, I was noticing that when I would post either a link or just a simple post,there was 0 response. All I could see were the numbers of people that was looking at the posts.

The straw that broke the camel's back for me was the Soul Train 40th Anniversary Concert post,in September. I decided not to post a long detailed post. [[and I'm glad I didn't) I posted video clips that was on YouTube, and newsclip from one of the local TV news in Chicago.

That's why I decided to start this thread,just to see where I stand as a member of SDF. I was not expecting for this post to take a leg of it's own,and still remain a factor even at this point.

I pick and choose what I want to reply to. If there's a subject I don't want to put my input in,I won't. Different strokes for different folks,it's just that simple. Who am I to tell someone to post or not to post,on a person or subject ? That's not my place to do so. As Ralph have stated,there's room for everybody.

Time is too short for negativity. [[at least I believe so) :) We can agree to disagree,and that's fine with me. :)

[pshark]

Agree GEE. Some of the nonsense that goes around here reminds me of:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2cNbii3mbhM&feature=player_embedded#!

[GeeTee(HPK)]

LOL ! :p Yeah, it can be that nutty at times,but I avoid being a part of that madness. :D

[shermanb]

Thank, Ralpht, Paladin, Juice, Marv, Marv2.

For the kind words and welcoming me back, I never left the forum for I still think its the most informative of all the music forums out there. I just couldnt handle all the negative responses to my post. your words have given me a new spirit about posting. I still may be lurking in the background but I will know longer not post for fear of backlash from the forum. I realize that everybody has something to contribute no matter how small. Just think I got to meet a superstar randomly by visiting my brother in the hospital, I mysel didnt believe it was him until he sang for me and that moment will always stay with me. I will be posting more. Thanks.

Shermanb

[soulster]

As I posted from the beginning, I was noticing that when I would post either a link or just a simple post,there was 0 response. All I could see were the numbers of people that was looking at the posts.


I know what you mean. It's frustrating to see your thread about something different with no posts and a few views, but then see that three Supremes/Diana Ross threads have over a thousand views and hundreds of posts.

[ajk93]

I know what you mean. It's frustrating to see your thread about something different with no posts and a few views, but then see that three Supremes/Diana Ross threads have over a thousand views and hundreds of posts.
It's not always The Supremes threads either. My thread about Martha And The Vandellas quickly passed several
hundred views and 90+ posts, but thanks to conspiracy theories and long tangents about other members, my thread
was deleted within 2 days.

[marv2]

Marv,

I do remember that situation, but I guess that it comes down to whether people believe that the information is credible, or rather if the source is credible. Regardless, I do remember that situation.

As for telling people everyting, I am best reminded of what happened when I first posted about Ollie Woodson's illness. All that I did was give the information, asked people to pray for him, then directed everyone to his PERSONAL website.

Despite the fact that if there was anything additional that Ollie wanted people to know, he'd have said so on his website, I had to field questions asking about his illness. Now if a man didn't supply that information on his own site, why in the world would anyone expect me to take it upon myself & post it here?

So sometimes even though you know information about people, you simply can't post it here. I've known about several people & their illnesses or some other personal thing. But when people trust you to keep your lips shut, you simply keep your lips shut. And every now & then I'd come here before I checked my e-mail to read that someone had died. More often than not, it wasn't a surprise to me because I knew that they weren't doing too well, but that information wasn't for public consumption & that's something that I have to respect.

I guess it is what it is.

In my case certain folks just have chips on their shoulders and I know why, but that is not important. Like you, people tell me things and it's just like any family friend or relative telling you something and that it is understood that you don't go off blasting it in public. Case in point, several years ago, in 1998 I was having dinner with one of the "Vandellas". We got to talking about Detroit and people in general that we knew. It was then that she told me that all of the Four Tops were sick. I know I never spoke about it on the internet and only mentioned it to my brother at that time. The following year is when one of the Tops told me about what the deal was. All this was a good 7-8 years before anyone had passed [[not including Lawrence.) It just did not seem right or proper to go telling people if I was not given permission to do so.

There is a guy on this forum right now that made up a huge LIE and then had the daughter of a legendary female Motown star calling my home to curse me out. Well, what that person did was wrong and he will have to answer to God for that whether he believes or not. What he did, without realizing it was severely damage his own personal reputation and created a good size chain of fairly prominent folks that now distrust and despise him for not only the trouble he tried to start for me, but because he manipulated the daughter of the legendary female Motown star! Most of them had to get involved in the situation to "cool things out"!

The way you handled the Ollie Woodson situation was correct in my opinion.

Marv

[marv2]

This is a very good thread. Excellent, reminds me of the old days, but I have to disagree with some of the positions taken here by various members.
I shall try to be brief because the thread has taken on a different life and direction to include the diversity of the forum and the topics discussed therein.

This is one of the most diverse forums I've ever been associated with. Whether someone posts on Justin Bieber, The Temptations or God forbid...Tony Turner, its really all cool with me because I don't have to read it, encourage it or discourage it. Quite like I do the Supreme threads. Secondly during the time that I've been here we have probably discussed every Detroit Entertainment related topic that there is to discuss. Thats a given. But we have also had threads on Jazz, pop and blues artists although they were not as popular, we had them. You never know what thread is [[sans Supremes) will take off and generate legitimate and intelligent conversation. I personally like the Temptations but rarely start a thread on them and usually I'll try to get in where I fit in if someone thats new to the forum has a concept or someone that's old to the forum [[ like Jai) comes up with a new angle and we all know where he gets his inspiration.

Motown has a legacy and even though we have now become our parents and grandparents, there will always be conversation about that magical time in history. It may not be as heated or debated, but the legacy will endure. The so called deemphasis of all things Detroit and Bobby Eli and Weldon were mentioned prominently, added a new zest to the forum because it actually revealed another side of the business and how Motown's many contemporaries not only competed but became successful in their own right. I will always appreciate their contributions and it made the forum better. A rather famous Philly component of this forum is Russell Thompson and the New Stylistics and their long running thread is a testament to the diversity and participation in this forum.

Juice, I will take it under advisement that you have taken it upon yourself to explain something for someone else. I shall leave it at that. The legacy of Motown will outlast us all. I have written many times that we should be setting the example for those young folk that will follow us and encourage them to join us for the sake of enlightenment, entertainment and in some small way education. But realistically some things about the forum will probably never change, there are quite a few people here who continue to grind axes and all they have left is a handle. Let me begrudgingly illustrate; A forum member has been responding to something he posted about a Motown TV show for more years than I can count ! Now I ask you does anybody really care ? Whether it happened or not do we [[ the forum et al) really give a dam? Let it go people and let's move on. That has about as much chance of flying as Jai has of not drinking his hooch........the more things change the more they remain the same.

We're only here for a minute, lets use that time wisely.

Another excellent post! I am thoroughly enjoy this! Let's continue.

[marv2]

I remember when Bobby Eli first came on the scene. He and I hit it off rather well. I was in the middle of writing the Tera Shirma webisode for David Meikle, who was running the show at the time. Bobby asked David if he could contribute something, but David was reluctant, wanting to keep the website pure Detroit, in keeping with the name. Well things changed. Bobby came on and was a hit. He actually played on the very first rhythm date at Tera Shirma Studio B, brought in by the legendary Mike Terry. The Dude had Detroit cred, besides all the Philly you could handle.

As far as I'm concerned, Soulful Detroit represents music..period. That is what we should all be about here. R&B, Rock, Blues, Polkas...name it. We will cover it.There is so much to learn from such a diverse group of people that come here. I will never discourage anyone wanting to post about the music that interests them.

Ralph, do you remember my big , long thread in the old forum's clubhouse about Canadian Music & Musicians?

[marv2]

I just get the vibe that some really resent the discussion of more than Detroit music and artists on this forum.

I for one don't resent it , coming from Detroit. I did get a lift this week when I saw that MikewUK[[sp?) started a thread about WeeGee of the Dramatics, but at the same time, I did comment in the Justin Bieber thread. I will admit that I very much enjoy discussing Detroit's Musicial Heritage, but I realize that there are not a whole lot of Detroiters on the forum.

Some one posted a thread about Loretta Lynn that seemed a bit odd to me because it was about her health and not even about her music. That one I thought could have went to the clubhouse. I am guilty of posting the thread about Samuel L. Jackson's Guiness Book of World Records honor on the main forum......it should have went to the clubhouse.

I did this a long time ago. I posted a thread listing as many artists as I could think of that came out of Michigan and Detroit. I think I might do that again when I get time. Maybe that will spur more discussion of Detroit's and Michigans contributions to the World of music?

[marv2]

I know what you mean. It's frustrating to see your thread about something different with no posts and a few views, but then see that three Supremes/Diana Ross threads have over a thousand views and hundreds of posts.

I can tell you why that is, but it is going to be a long story! But basically what you have are folks that use belong to about a dozen or so old Yahoo Groups designated for fans of the Supremes and /or Diana Ross. These were popular about 10 or more years ago. There was so much bitching, arguing and general acrimony, that most of all of those groups were decimated! What you have now, today here at SDF are some of the "refugees" from those groups [[their MAIN interest in any thing musically related is Diana Ross with Supremes following as a close 2nd). Unfortunately, the ones that came here were responsible for destroying many of those old groups with a lot of nonsense that turned people off and ran them away.

Marv

[ralpht]

Marv,
I think I remember the thread.