Do you think the evolution of hip hop and R&B music has changed peoples accent?

[homebody]

People talked different in the 1950's not just slangs but if you listen to an interview or movie from like 1954 you can tell the accent was different.With Hip hop and R&B evolved its more of an urban feeling or gangsta.If you were live in the 1960's to maybe 1980's [[before the hip hop influence in R&B) I am sure if you heard a young black man like 19 years old speak today it sounds different from 40 or 30 years ago.Diana Ross listening to old interviews sounded like a middle aged woman when she was in her early 20's and looked older.I think I am the only one that has noticed how much people speaking has changed and I think the hip hop culture could have something to do with it.Where did talking ghetto come from cause I hear alot of young women smacking their gum trying to talk ghetto but do you think that came fro hip hop cause it wasnt like that 100 years ago but when they do biopics I notice they train them like when I saw "The Help" the black lady was speaking like in a 1960's accent,I wonder if they also noticed that it has changed.I think it was more accentuated and enunciated than now and clearer nowadays.Go to a urban high school and you will hear a different in talking compared to 30 something years ago especially from girls.

[ralpht]

Interesting concept, James. You may be on to something. I'll have to think about this.

[soulster]

I think it's just a matter of these "hip-hoppers" not using proper English. They have adapted the language of the streets, which really doesn't play well in the rest of society. And, if you listen to a lot of the big-name rappers, they do speak proper English.

[homebody]

Look at a movie from like 1970 and I do notice speaking was different like slower and clear not as fast as today like this "ghetto accent" that alot of females tend to speak in like they have spine in their throat and its very high.

[robb_k]

3676
Language is always changing. People speak the way they do, heavily influenced by what they hear. When I return to Canada or USA from The Netherlands, people notice that I am using very hard "Ts", and hissing my "Ss" [[Hard S), and so on. That lasts for a few weeks, until I am speaking again as a North American. I assume that people who listen to a LOT of music, might be influenced somewhat by the speech of the singers. But, usually, one's speech patterns are learned very early. Most of us speak the way our colleagues in school spoke. And we all first spoke as our parents did. I've spoken pretty much the way I've spoken all my life. Most people say I speak like their grandparents or great grandparents. I was raised by both sets of grandparents [[one set who spoke Dutch from the 1880s/1890s, and the other, who spoke Canadian English from the 1890s). I assume that most of you can tell from my writing that my writing [[and speech) is quite old-fashioned. We used about 40,000 words in daily speech then. Nowadays, we are told [[based on some scientific tests) that the average adult in USA now uses only about 4,000 words in daily speech. That's quite a big difference. Also, people's grammar is atrocious these days.

If you watch a Canadian film from the 1920s, you'd probably get a reasonable idea of how I speak. Although I've listened to a lot of R&B music and Soul music starting in the early 1950s, and continuing until this day, it hasn't affected my speech of standard English. However, when I lived in South Chicago [[very near to The South Side), and worked on The South Side for several years, my speech was very much affected by the people around me. While in The Ghetto, I spoke a hybrid between "Ghettoese" and standard English, just because most of the people I dealt with spoke that way. It was not a conscious effort to speak that way. It's just that one tends to repeat what one hears. That's why a lot of us use foul language without even thinking of what it means.

After living in Arab countries for much of 15 years, I found myself saying "Ensha'allah" , Y'Allah, etc.or other sayings. If I get surprised, shocked, or angry, I might say "Oh Christ!" or "Jesus Christ! Or "Christ All Mighty!", only because I've lived in English-Speaking Christian countries [[Canada, USA, Great Britain) for considerable periods. I am Jewish! I do NOT want to be saying such things! I am always shocked to hear myself say those words. It only happens out of familiarity. I'm used to hearing people say that when they have those emotions. After I return from Germany, I often continue to say "O scheisse!" [["Shit" in English), for several weeks [[only because I had heard it a lot over a recent period). Or, I'll return from Denmark to Holland, and people will say I am speaking with a Danish accent.

In any case, I think people's main speech patterns were formed heavily from age 2-5, and further molded in their early school period, with only minor influences later. Most of those influences come from the people around them. One would have to be almost a hermit who listens to a fantastic amount of singing to have his/her speech patterns affected a lot by recorded singers. People would have to make a concerted effort to develop an accent similar to R&B/Soul singers to have much effect.

[soulster]

Look at a movie from like 1970 and I do notice speaking was different like slower and clear not as fast as today like this "ghetto accent" that alot of females tend to speak in like they have spine in their throat and its very high.

Man...that was Hollywood! You know how those Blaxpliotation movies happened in the 70s? Maybe with the exception of people like Gordon parks, a bunch of White writers wrote characters and scripts based on how they viewed Black Americans. And, more often than not, they were merely caricatures, not anywhere realistic.

I'm assuming you are quite young. I don't want to sound patronizing, but I would highly suggest you do some real research on the social history of this country, and not use Hollywood and music for definitive references.

[soulster]

3676
Language is always changing. People speak the way they do, heavily influenced by what they hear. When I return to Canada or USA from The Netherlands, people notice that I am using very hard "Ts", and hissing my "Ss" [[Hard S), and so on. That lasts for a few weeks, until I am speaking again as a North American. I assume that people who listen to a LOT of music, might be influenced somewhat by the speech of the singers. But, usually, one's speech patterns are learned very early. Most of us speak the way our colleagues in school spoke. And we all first spoke as our parents did. I've spoken pretty much the way I've spoken all my life. Most people say I speak like their grandparents or great grandparents. I was raised by both sets of grandparents [[one set who spoke Dutch from the 1880s/1890s, and the other, who spoke Canadian English from the 1890s. I assume that most of you can tell from my writing that my writing [[and speech) is quite old-fashioned. We used about 40,000 words in daily speech then. Nowadays, we are told [[based on some scientific tests) that the average adult in USA now uses only about 4,000 words in daily speech. That's quite a big difference. Also, people's grammar is atrocious these days.

If you watch a Canadian film from the 1920s, you'd probably get a reasonable idea of how I speak. Although I've listened to a lot of R&B music and Soul music starting in the early 1950s, and continuing until this day, it hasn't affected my speech of standard English. However, when I lived in Southg Chicago [[very near to The South Side), and worked on The South Side for several years, my speech was very much affected by the people around me. While in The Ghetto, I spoke a hybrid between "Ghettoese" and standard English, just because most of the people I dealt with spoke that way. It was not a conscious effort to speak that way. It's just that one tends to repeat what one hears. That's why a lot of us use fopul language without even thinking of what it means.

After living in Arab countries for much of 15 years, I found myself saying "Ensha'allah" , Y'Allah, etc.or other sayings. If I get surprised, shocked, or angry, I might say "Oh Christ!" or "Jesus Christ! Or "Christ All Mighty!", only because I've lived in English-Speaking Christian countries [[Canada, USA, Great Britain) for considerable periods. I am Jewish! I do NOT want to be saying such things! I am always shocked to hear myself say those words. It only happens out of familiarity. I'm used to hearing people say that when they have those emotions. After I return from Germany, I often continue to say "O scheisse!" [["Shit" in English), for several weeks [[only because I had heard it a lot over a recent period). Or, I'll return from Denmark to Holland, and people will say I am speaking with a Danish accent.

In any case, I think people's main speech patterns were formed heavily from age 2-5, and further molded in their early school period, with only minor influences later. Most of those influences come from the people around them. One would have to be almost a hermit who listens to a fantastic amount of singing to have his/her speech patterns affected a lot by recorded singers. People would have to make a concerted effort to develop an accent similar to R&B/Soul singers to have much effect.


Excellent post, and so true!

You know, my family and I are from the midwest, and tend to enunciate and stress our words. I am the one in the family with the least amount of a dialect. Later, in our teens and in college in the 70s and 80s, my sister and I were always though of being "intelligent". The White people at schools thought we were "uppity" or "trying to be White". Some "black people" really didn't like us. I recall one guy staring me down and saying in a hostile, low voice "sounds intellectual". Anyway, Our manner of speech has always been an advantage for us in business. It also helps when one is able to communicate easily and effectively with anyone who understands the English language without having the barrier of an accent or dialect.

Having stated that, it's perfectly fine to use slang when around family or friends. Thing is, I don't know how to "talk Black", what ever that is. I sound like an idiot if I try. :)

[robb_k]

3682

Excellent post, and so true!

You know, my family and I are from the midwest, and tend to enunciate and stress our words. I am the one in the family with the least amount of a dialect. Later, in our teens and in college in the 70s and 80s, my sister and I were always though of being "intelligent". The White people at schools thought we were "uppity" or "trying to be White". Some "black people" really didn't like us. I recall one guy staring me down and saying in a hostile, low voice "sounds intellectual". Anyway, Our manner of speech has always been an advantage for us in business. It also helps when one is able to communicate easily and effectively with anyone who understands the English language without having the barrier of an accent or dialect.

Having stated that, it's perfectly fine to use slang when around family or friends. Thing is, I don't know how to "talk Black", what ever that is. I sound like an idiot if I try. :)

No harm in speaking a dialect. Language is for communication. There is often a deeper connection in the communication between dialect speakers than if they both moved to the standard "national" language of their country [[especially when that national language is a "second language" to each of them. So, it's advantageous to keep up speaking a dialect, but also to learn the standard national or international language of one's country. It is better to be able to communicate best in every situation, than to be limited by not having that option. "When in Rome, do as the Romans do.". It's better to be a Roman in as many situations possible. If you need to speak the standard national [[TV) language to get a professional job and keep it, it is good to have that capability. On the other hand, if you need to speak a local dialect to "be one of the crowd", that's good as well.

When I'm in Los Angeles, I live in a neighbourhood of mainly Oaxacan [[Mexican immigrants from the state of Oaxaca). Their form of Spanish is very far from standard Mexican Spanish, and yet further from the Classical Castilian which I learned at university and spending time in Spain. When I started speaking Castilian Spanish to the locals, they had no idea what I was talking about. Few, if any of the people near me speak any English. So, gradually, I had to learn the Oaxacan idiom. In Munich [[München) Germany, where I live 3 months a year, it is more advantageous to speak Bayerish [[Bavarian) in casual speech with friends, than to use standard Hochdeutsch [[German).

[144man]

This is a great topic. I'll be very interested to see what conclusions are reached.

[tamla617]

robb_k
good posting!you intrigue me with all that travelling.

[ralpht]

This has become a very interesting thread. Nice work, guys.

[stephanie]

I DO think the hip hop culture has made EBONICS acceptable and more prevalent. The same way Jeff Foxworthy and Rosanne [[and Rosanne said it) have made white trash or being a redneck acceptable. I never will forget an interview that I saw Rosanne do and she said "I made white trash acceptable". What I DONT like is that it is ok to be a redneck and its NOT ok to speak in EBONICS. I see nothing wrong with people hanging out and using slang on the street or amongst friends or even in movies for that matter but what I see happening is the hip hop culture making young kids WANT to speak this way and make it a part of their lives and they cant get out of the mode. It has always amazed me how young white hippies in the sixties were using terms as groovy, far out, Im gonna get laid, or dropping acid [[I am not saying blacks didnt do this) but it was prevalent amongst that culture. 20 years later these kids were the CEO's of companies and in middle management in corporate america. Now if a young black man is doing this same thing he doesnt become the head of any company or doesnt get the same chance. Blacks have to work twice as hard when it comes to getting a certain type of job and if he speaks like he is from the inner city, or has any kind of background having a history of drugs its frowned upon.

I am not a militant and I dont think that blacks should speak in an urban manner but if that is where you come from it should not be held against you. I see nothing wrong with cornrows or afros. If a white girl has an earring in her nose she wont have a problem getting a job but if the young black girl does its looked at like she is being tribal. Having gotten off of the subject matter I will go back to the original question YES hip hop videos have made white and black kids have more of a gangsta attitude and demeans the beauty of the sexual act. When I see white rockers in videos sex is usually a big party and in the hip hop videos the women is being demeaned. Hip hop is a culture but I can take it when I see an NWA video because they stood for something. When I see bit**** and whores being mentioned it is downgrading to the black woman you dont see white males doing that in their videos. You may see the guy getting laid but he is not talking about her in the video and calling her a b and a w! Whites are taught to turn it on and off. Black rappers are highly intelligent but they play to the masses of males by expressing a violence that need not be expressed in this music the way it is. Have you noticed that when this music came out people started talking like they were from NY and Jersey and they werent. The same way Tina Turner and Madonna were trying to sound like brits! Peter Noone [[hermans hermits) has lived in America a long time and Eric Burdon [[the animals) they didnt lose their accents! Why do people from Atlanta, SC and other regions try to talk like they are from NY when hip hop came? Good thread.

[soulster]

Good thing you mentioned rednecks. I don't approve of that type of speech either, but with the continuing double-standard in this country, it is acceptable, even celebrated. Wearing corn rolls, dreadlocks, and fros were also looked down on until White people started doing it. The only reason some rap is tolerated is because of the Beastie Boys, Areosmith, and Blondie.

[robb_k]

3689

I DO think the hip hop culture has made EBONICS acceptable and more prevalent. The same way Jeff Foxworthy and Rosanne [[and Rosanne said it) have made white trash or being a redneck acceptable. Peter Noone [[hermans hermits) has lived in America a long time and Eric Burdon [[the animals) they didnt lose their accents! Why do people from Atlanta, SC and other regions try to talk like they are from NY when hip hop came? Good thread.

Why should people above age 13 or 14, who move to a new country where the people speak differently, speak like a native of that new country? People generally form their basic speech patterns during ages 0-12 or 13. Most people will retain those basic patterns for the rest of their lives, and they can only be slightly modified after that age, even when speaking a new language. In general, the only people who move to a new country, whose people speak a different language or dialect, retain an "accent" from their original language when speaking the new language or dialect, regardless of how long they live in the new, adopted country. Usually, the only people who immigrated to a new country after age 13, that can "get rid of" an accent
from a first language, are actors or extremely determined people, who work extremely hard at that pursuit. Virtually every Dutch person I know, who moved to Canada or USA after age 13, that I have met, despite living in the English-speaking country for 70 or more years, has a discernable Dutch accent [[varying g=from light to heavy-but most are fairly heavy, due to the two languages containing several very different sounds). The same is true in the other direction. All the English first-language speakers I've met in The Netherlands [[who bothered even to learn to speak Dutch after living there for long periods-many [[most?) don't), retain a heavy, easily discernible English accent.

Why should British singing stars devote the ridiculous hours through the years that would be required to rid themselves of their English accents, when giving up such a large chunk of their life would not really benefit them in any meaningful way? Would it earn them more money? No. It would probably cause them problems. People might think they are imposters. It might limit their ability to get work.

I will have a heavy accent in Danish, for the rest of my life. It would take a ridiculous amount of practise for me to get rid of SOME of my accent in Danish [[such a difficult pronunciation that I probably could NEVER get rid of it completely). But I can't stop my life to get rid of my accent in ANY language. If it meant the difference in my working or not working in the one country I chose to live full time, then, I would probably do it.

People completely losing their foreign accents is so very uncommon, that one is usually shocked to find out that someone is from that foreign country and has no discernible accent.

[144man]

I was watching the BBC documentary series on language, "Fry's Planet Word", and it was discussed how rap music had changed the way French was spoken, particularly in Marseilles in respect of accent and the addition of Arabic words. These changes had also been adopted by Caucasians living there. If this is happening in France, there is no reason to think that it would not also take place in the US and the UK.

[soulster]

I was watching the BBC documentary series on language, "Fry's Planet Word", and it was discussed how rap music had changed the way French was spoken, particularly in Marseilles in respect of accent and the addition of Arabic words. These changes had also been adopted by Caucasians living there. If this is happening in France, there is no reason to think that it would not also take place in the US and the UK.

here in the U.S., the only word I can think of that has been assimilated into the mainstream population is "diss", as in "disrespect". The hip-hop culture is still very frowned on here, and a lot of it is due to racism.

[splanky]

I have a bigggg problem with hiphop in it's current form with it's current crop of clowns, thugs, ignorants who seem hell bent
on portray themselves visually and lyrically in the most vile, selfish and disgusting ways totally co-opting not only their elders
but our children at every turn and I am both black and a man who grew up with Dolemite, Blowfly, Richard Pryor and the
original nasty boys, Funkadelic so the racism criticism doesn't fly with me, soulster. Have you ever listened to Lil Wayne's
"songs"?...

[soulster]

I have a bigggg problem with hiphop in it's current form with it's current crop of clowns, thugs, ignorants who seem hell bent
on portray themselves visually and lyrically in the most vile, selfish and disgusting ways totally co-opting not only their elders
but our children at every turn and I am both black and a man who grew up with Dolemite, Blowfly, Richard Pryor and the
original nasty boys, Funkadelic so the racism criticism doesn't fly with me, soulster. Have you ever listened to Lil Wayne's
"songs"?...

Again, I think you misinterpreted what I meant. Hip-hop, as a whole, is frowned on simply because of it's creators. It's a covert type of racism. I'm not playing the race card, just calling it like I see. I grew up in the same era you did, but the difference with hip-hop is that it involves a whole mode of dress and attitude. That culture is rejected, even the positive aspects are.

[robb_k]

3700
I think that the question is: Is Rap Music having an effect on the basic speech of a significant percentage of the US population? I suspect that it is having a large effect on the young people within the "Rap culture". but, what percentage of The US population is that? I have no idea, because when I am in USA, I'm pretty much a hermit. I see my sister and her family [[sister is half Dutch half Canadian[[as am I), and her husband is Danish. Her kids were raised partly in Denmark and partly in USA, but they are certainly not rappers. Otherwise, my neighbours are mainly Mexican and Chinese, and my housemate is Chinese. I spend most of my time on Skype, talking with Dutch, German and Danish people. So, I have no idea what's going on. But, I'd guess that Rappers form a fairly small percentage of the overall population. I don't know about Rap's effect on speech among The Chicanos in L.A., but Ebonics [[or The general African American idiom [[dialect) has had an effect. There are many "Ghetto" words that have been taken into the "Spanglish" of The Barrios. But it has had little effect on the intact Mexican Spanish still spoken in L.A. [[continuously refreshed by newly arriving Latino immigrants).

[soulster]

Rob, you got to the heart of the matter!

No, I do not see hip hop having any significant effect of the larger percentage of the U.S. population.

[splanky]

And once again, soulster, you're missing my point. If I remember correctly you live out in the midwest, don't you?
Well, you may have grown up in the same time as I have but not the same place. Everybody and their mommas know
black people still make up a small percentage of the total American population, so what? That doesn't discount the fact
that in every major city in this country there is a more or less marginalised black population that in a number of ways has influenced not only their own subsequent generations but those of the surrounding populations. Whether they be white,
the majority, Chinese, Puerto Rican, Japanese, Mexican or immigrants from Dakar, Senegal. Most American popular music
forms wouldn't even exist without an influence from this " small percentage of the population". Funk, blues, jazz, R&B, soul...
these are black inventions. As is hip hop. But today in popular music belongs to the young and in those places I mentioned
they, black, spanish and white are listening to Jay Z, Kanye, Snoop, 50 pennies and Lil Wayne. I know tons of people of various ethnic backgrounds who don't listen to hip hop who adore varieties of those other black created musical forms. Some
too, who listen to music outside of the US chart focus like Reggae, Zouk, Soukous and Ethio-jazz...People who cannot see how much of a negative influence on our young people by so much of our "popular culture" are folks who to me live in denial...

[soulster]

If I remember correctly you live out in the midwest, don't you?

No, i'm in the southwest.


Well, you may have grown up in the same time as I have but not the same place.

Right. I'm in redneck country.


Everybody and their mommas know black people still make up a small percentage of the total American population, so what? That doesn't discount the fact that in every major city in this country there is a more or less marginalised black population that in a number of ways has influenced not only their own subsequent generations but those of the surrounding populations. Whether they be white, the majority, Chinese, Puerto Rican, Japanese, Mexican or immigrants from Dakar, Senegal. Most American popular music forms wouldn't even exist without an influence from this "small percentage of the population". Funk, blues, jazz, R&B, soul...these are black inventions. As is hip hop. But today in popular music belongs to the young and in those places I mentioned they, black, spanish and white are listening to Jay Z, Kanye, Snoop, 50 pennies and Lil Wayne. I know tons of people of various ethnic backgrounds who don't listen to hip hop who adore varieties of those other black created musical forms. Some too, who listen to music outside of the US chart focus like Reggae, Zouk, Soukous and Ethio-jazz...People who cannot see how much of a negative influence on our young people by so much of our "popular culture" are folks who to me live in denial...

Slow down! We are not talking about music. We are talking about speech. When we talk about hip-hop, we talk about the culture as a whole. Even many Black people have rejected hip-hop because of the negative elements of it, siuch as the glorification of violence, drugs, and racism. Too often rap represents the worst of the underclass that many would rather not see.

[robb_k]

3705

And once again, soulster, you're missing my point. If I remember correctly you live out in the midwest, don't you?
Well, you may have grown up in the same time as I have but not the same place. Everybody and their mommas know
black people still make up a small percentage of the total American population, so what? That doesn't discount the fact
that in every major city in this country there is a more or less marginalised black population that in a number of ways has influenced not only their own subsequent generations but those of the surrounding populations. Whether they be white,
the majority, Chinese, Puerto Rican, Japanese, Mexican or immigrants from Dakar, Senegal. Most American popular music
forms wouldn't even exist without an influence from this " small percentage of the population". Funk, blues, jazz, R&B, soul...
these are black inventions. As is hip hop. But today in popular music belongs to the young and in those places I mentioned
they, black, spanish and white are listening to Jay Z, Kanye, Snoop, 50 pennies and Lil Wayne. I know tons of people of various ethnic backgrounds who don't listen to hip hop who adore varieties of those other black created musical forms. Some
too, who listen to music outside of the US chart focus like Reggae, Zouk, Soukous and Ethio-jazz...People who cannot see how much of a negative influence on our young people by so much of our "popular culture" are folks who to me live in denial...

No one is arguing that Afro-American music hasn't had major influences on American music and its enjoyment by all Americans [[and lots of people World-wide, for that matter).

I have almost NO contact with Americans [[other than a handful of people who were born in other countries, and are so old that their speech patterns and vocabulary were formed long before Rap music existed. So, I can't speak about Rap music's impact on American speech. So, I'll leave it to you to tell us what you think is happening now. I can say thjat it is clear that African-American [[or Black American music certainly added vocabulary words to general American speech from the 1880s through the 1970s. So, I suspect there are a few words creeping into general American speech, even now. For example, "The Hood" for neighbourhood or local area, or for "The Ghetto" in general, came into general use years ago.

But, are you saying that a large portion of young Americans are using a LOT of Rapper words, and phrases in their everyday speech. I'm guessing that a good portion of The Caucasians that use that type of speech to appear "cool", turn that off when they have a job interview. So, I consider that as "feigning an accent", or putting on an act, rather than having their normal speech patterns altered by influence from listening to Rap Music.

Maybe you can tell us whether or not there are large amounts of African-American youth whose normal speech has been strongly affected by listening to Rap Music. I assume that there is some of that effect occurring.

[splanky]

As far as I can see, soulster, a number of other things besides speech were being mentioned in this thread. Besides, maybe I didn't get the memo or missed the date on my calendar but ah ummm...Can you tell me exactly WHEN you were voted to decide what I can or cannot post on any given thread?!?....please....
You have made the assertion several times on this forum that hip hop is attacked simply
due to racism and predjudice against its creators [[which I assume you mean against
black people) and I say that while for many that may be true, especially out there in the sticks where you live, a blanket portrayal of all people who don't like hip hop as racist is BULLSHIT....you slow down and think about that, amigo...

Anyway, robb k, as hip hop songs are like any vocal music composed of words and words
generate ideas I definitely think the things we hear and say influence our thinking and so
our actions and behavoir. For a most of the young people finding their way through the world, trying to shape their identity and come to terms with their own social status and
sexuality the culture they are exposed to, music, film, literature, etc becomes their
point of reference as does the ideas of their peers. Ego plays a big role too and so
one finds him or herself wanting to be cool. Be popular. Be "down". I have no problem
with any of that but I noticed a funny thing occur in the 90's when I lot of the young
people around me began to take almost all of their cues about life from the characters
rappers portrayed in their music. This whether or not that portayal was genuine.
You were nothing if you were not "hard". All of the guys wanted to be "thugs" and
the girls "the baddest b*tch." Criminal acts or behavior became glorified, with every young man claiming to be a pimp or bragging about sticking up people or robbing jewelry
stores as their "heroes" had said they did on a record and then real life performers started getting in real trouble in their own lives. Busted with drugs. Booked for domestic assault. Charged with murder or getting shot. Two big name figures even getting killed
and to this day no killer caught and convicted. "Oh, but it's just a song..." I hear people
say that all the time. I don't buy it anymore. I'm not knocking hip hop as a genre but as I said before hip hop in it's current state and even as Gangsta Rap dies out it has left
a ton of idealogical stains that I think may be permanent...Sorry for getting so long winded...

[ollie]

Soulster if i could beam you back to year 1600 or any other date around that year, the people there would look at you very strange.
You wouldn't stand a ghost of a chance to be heard or understood, with the modern language.
Speech is evolution, your on the one, or your not.
Hip Hop, Rap or the spoken word [[TV or better Hellavison) has influence on our youth, and ups they come up with a new vocabulary. Sometime we, as the older generation don't like that, but what the hell, who are we at last.

[juicefree20]

Slang has always been around but what I truly believe has happened that once corporate America read Madison Avenue decided to try to gain "cool points" via pushing the Rap sensibility, they've basically served to dumb-down things a great deal.

The last 25 years speak volumes more than anything that I could hope to say would.

[juicefree20]

Soulster,

Frankly I believe that there are 2 reasons why Rap music is as accepted as it is..

1. They couldn't keep Rap music from reaching kids in Kansas, Iowa or the suburbs
2. Rap music represented a whole lot of dollars & cents for their coffers.