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spyder turner
08-23-2010, 12:07 PM
Please accept my apologies about the late reply. Current US legislation does not recognise the right of performers to receive equitable remuneration for the exploitation of their music through airplay and broadcasting. This means that the USA is a non-qualifying territory and any recordings which are recorded in the country do not qualify for PPL payment. The only way for performers to be paid for radio airplay and broadcasting royalties for tracks which were recorded in the US is if they were a citizen of a qualifying territory or residing in a qualifying territory at the time of the recording.

I would like to instil some hope if I may in informing you that currently the US legislation is being reviewed and hopefully it will be changed to allow performers equitable remuneration for radio airplay and broadcasting. It is unlikely however that even if this was to change performers would be back paid any royalties.

Please let me know if you require any further assistance.

Kind Regards,

spyder turner
08-23-2010, 12:12 PM
Ms M was right, these people do not pay american singers for performances. They send you through changes get you to sign with them and then they collect money from other countries on your behalf and then send you a letter like this

spyder turner
08-23-2010, 12:16 PM
PLEASE DO NOT SIGN ANYTHING FROM THESE MOFOS CAUSE YOU WILL ONLY GET FRUSTRATED WAITING TO GET PAID. I called Ms M a suit, but she is a suit that cares about artist. I will listen next time

ms_m
08-23-2010, 01:42 PM
Thanks for the public acknowledgment bro but you've always been a class act:)

You already know how I feel about the PPL so I will not go down that road again but hey, it only took them a year [[or more) to fess up.....LOL

Love ya Spykie:cool:

theboyfromxtown
08-23-2010, 05:26 PM
Spyder and Mrs M

If I read that right, it's OUTRAGEOUS! I can't believe it's been going on all these years and I only found out about it now.

I get regular requests from PPL asking my firm to make payments for playing music to customers. I expected it to find its way to the correct people! Is the UK in a qualifying territory?

Next time, PPL send me a bill, I am gonna ask them who the money goes to.

ms_m
08-23-2010, 07:51 PM
theboyfromxtown I don't know where you are but this applies to US artists only.

A while back someone from the PPL was on SDF trying to get people to sign up. I hammered him at length about why these artists were not getting their money and even asked him to show me a legal binding statue that prevented PPL from sending a check, he couldn't produce one. All that tap dancing in the letter Spyder received is BS. The UK IS NOT and CANNOT be legally bound by US laws. Now here is the kicker, the artist that have signed up gave PPL the right to collect European royalties which sits in escrow collecting interest. If they continue to play by US rules and the US rules never change, guess who will eventually receive the dough?

jsmith
08-23-2010, 08:38 PM
Surely there are enough good UK soul mags that can get on the case here -- highlight what has been going on & along with outraged fans, help shame this outfit into paying out what they have collected on behalf of American soul artists.

marv2
08-23-2010, 09:08 PM
Spyder this is HUGE issue that got a fair amount of press last year. Mary addresses the issue at the MUSICFirst Conference in Las Vegas:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=56c_LVRai-w

marv2
08-23-2010, 09:09 PM
Part 2 :
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VOyxLzbNP8I&feature=related

ms_m
08-23-2010, 10:04 PM
Two separate issues Marv.

marv2
08-23-2010, 10:45 PM
Really Ms. M? How so? I would like to understand these issues.

ms_m
08-24-2010, 08:52 AM
The PPL is a UK based agency. Mary's issues, which I have talked about in length numerous times here and will not go over it again, should not have any affect on whether PPL pays American artists. The USA DOES NOT have any legal jurisdiction over U.K. performance agencies.

ms_m
08-24-2010, 09:04 AM
For the record, most European countries take a socialist approach towards their artist and are usually quite fair and generous so I'm guessing the PPL works great for the UK [[although you would have to ask an artist who lives there) but sucks for American artists. Especially classic soul artists which UK fans adore but the PPL is shafting!

marv2
08-24-2010, 01:46 PM
I understand. Thanks Ms. M for responding back.

juicefree20
08-24-2010, 05:34 PM
Spyder & Ms M:

I'm sorry to read this. It appears as though the PPL DELIBERATELY attempted to pull the wool over the eyes of the entertainers when recruiting them, knowing full well that there was no mechanism in place to get the artists compensated.

I guess that the only question as regards what they've been trying to do, comes directly from the letter that Spyder received...

"This means that the USA is a non-qualifying territory and any recordings which are recorded in the country do not qualify for PPL payment..."

So what in the hell was the recruitment process for, when by THEIR OWN admission, they already knew that US-based artists wouldn't qualify?

Sounds more than a bit fraudulent to me & as such, it would appear as though something should be able to be done. Signing up people under the guise of collecting monies for them, then admitting that those same people DO NOT qualify for payment, is out & out FRAUD. There's no other word for it.

From what I'm reading, those who signed up pretty much gave these folks the rights to collect & keep their money. Sounds like gross misrepresentation & exploitation to me & hopefully, it will be their own admission that helps to get any artist who signed, extract themselves from what appears to be a sham.

ms_m
08-24-2010, 06:33 PM
Juice you're dealing with the policies of another country. Our laws do not have any jurisdiction over the UK.
Besides, research and reading would have solved the problem as oppose to jumping on the band wagon and falling for the hype. Such is life. shrugs

theboyfromxtown
08-24-2010, 07:22 PM
I just find this so unfair to be unbelievable. The UK has some unfair stuff going on but this is not our style. Is it not possible to withdraw the consent previously given so that PPL cannot collect future royalties. I've half a mind to give them a call tomorrow and ask them more.

http://www.ppluk.com/en/Contact-Us/

I know the Velvelettes get paid their royalties but I now wish I had studied it a bit more in detail.

ms_m
08-24-2010, 08:49 PM
THEBOYFROMXTOWN do the Velvelettes own their publishing [[or maybe part of their publishing) or are they receiving royalties for airplay/broadcasting as artist? [[from PPL) If the former, all [[US) publishers receive royalties regardless the country through US agencies such as BMI [[at least they are suppose to) but if it's the latter, that's a precedent that needs to be explored.

ms_m
08-24-2010, 09:05 PM
Guys, the music industry has never been [[or rarely been) a level playing field. It wasn't back in the day and even more so now. [[all rules have exceptions) I could write a novel about my frustration with many old school artists who refuse to see the forest for the trees in today's industry so as perturbed as I am with PPL, it's not ALL THEIR FAULT.

From a suit standpoint they [[PPL) are in the middle of US music industry politics. As an observer, I would like to know the leverage the US agencies have over PPL....strictly political and professional courtesy [[by observing their current laws) or is something else involved? Probably both and I'm sure it comes back to the almighty dollar/pound!

theboyfromxtown
08-24-2010, 09:26 PM
Mrs M

I am not sure the ladies know why they're getting anything but they are. Could they ask for more information?

I do recall being quite humbled that the UK was mostly mentioned.

ms_m
08-24-2010, 09:35 PM
They can and IMO should always know where the money is coming from and why. Understanding how the industry works is a must for any artist.

Here is a brief description of the four types of royalty payments. Goggling can give you more details and info. Hope this helps, you seem like someone who is seriously interested in knowing more. I dig that.:)


[[1) Mechanical royalties: paid from record companies for record sold based on the exclusive to reproduce and distribute copyrighted works.

[[2) Public performance royalties: paid by music users for songs in the operation of their businesses and broadcasts based on the exclusive right to perform publicly copyrighted works.

[[3) Synchronization fees: paid by music users for synchronizing music with their visual images based on the exclusive right to reproduce and distribute copyrighted works and to prepare derivative works of copyrighted material.

[[4) Print music income: paid by music printers for sheet music and folios based on the exclusive right to distribute copies of copyrighted material.

theboyfromxtown
08-24-2010, 09:37 PM
Mrs M

As an accountant, I see people from all walks of life who are gifted in their fields but when it comes to figures and tax and accounts, they haven't got a clue and neither are they interested. That's why I did my training. I am assuming that everyone knows that when you're in business, whether it be the music industry or whatever, you engage a professional acccountant to protect your interests. In the case of this serious injustice, how can all those accountants have got it so badly wrong for so long by not protecting their clients interests? That's an accountants sole purpose!

I am, as we say here, gobsmacked

theboyfromxtown
08-24-2010, 09:43 PM
Mrs M

I am not the ladies official anything other than a close friend who cares very much for them. And I'll be damned if I find out anyone is trying to pull the wool over their eyes.

Thank you for your insight. I shall make a few discrete enquires before someone gets to hear any of my wrath!

ms_m
08-24-2010, 09:52 PM
That's an age old problem and I'm guessing it's worldwide. Keep in mind many of these artist were nothing more than kids when they started and many didn't [[and still don't) have a clue about the business end of this industry. There's also this thing about accountants, lawyers and such needing to be paid.:) Not all classic soul artist have it like that these days. Lot's of reasons and very little excuses tbfm but even outside the industry I know so call intelligent people signing documents without reading or having a true understanding of what they are signing. Many don't ask questions out of embarrassment but there is nothing embarrassing about not understanding legalese and accountant procedures if that's not your level of expertise. Better to ask questions now and feel foolish as oppose to being screwed without the Vaseline later down the road.

ms_m
08-24-2010, 09:54 PM
Always good to know what's up first...good idea. LOL

nomis
08-24-2010, 10:26 PM
I know at the time of Michael Jacksons death he had a lawsuit over payment of Jackson five royalties,I mean he had the money to chase the sharks but most people cannot afford the legal costs...its the ugly side of the buisness

jsmith
08-25-2010, 02:53 AM
I'm not entirely sure which payment this applies to, but I think its UK public performance payments.
I'm positive in the past I've seen that the body that collects this money here in the UK doesn't have the resources / can't be bothered to try to track down reps for every 'minor' US artist [[i.e. recording acts that haven't had a chart hit). So they collect all the money in, pay out the sums due to the likes of the Surpremes, Tempts, Stevie & Marvin THEN they put all the 'small sums' due [[say) US soul artists in a pot and use this to make 'charity' type payments to ex-recording artists who have fallen on hard times & need a financial helping hand.
Of course, 99% of this cash goes to UK artists even though I guess around 40% to 50% of the money that goes in this pot was earnt from plays of US recordings.

ms_m
08-25-2010, 04:54 AM
I offered to help track down any artist [[free of charge) here in the US that the PPL could not find. The conversation I had with the PPL rep can be found in the SDF archives.