The Temptations: The Emperors of.....Disco?

[marybrewster]

Read an intersting piece yesterday relating to the "birth" of disco. Many sources credit "Soul Mokossa" [[1973) by Manu Dibango as being the "first disco song" but this article also speculated that the honors could go to The Temptations for "Law of the Land".

Has anyone else ever heard of this? Here it is, from YouTube. I definiately hear disco elements, and remember, this was 1973 as well.....


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xP71jnIy6Ek

[johnjeb]

By the time the Masterpiece album came out we had already been dancing up a storm in the clubs.

I think of "Shaft" by Isaac Hayes as the first unofficial disco song. "Feel The Need In Me" by The Detroit Emeralds marked the beginning of disco for me.

I don't have my references handy but by the time Masterpiece was released we had long been dancing to "Papa Was A Rolling Stone". Eddie Kendricks' "Keep On Truckin'" and "Boogie Down" came out about the same time.

I think Eddie's songs would be considered the beginning of disco over "Law Of The Land". I would love to read that article, I love vintage disco. Do you have a link?

"Law Of The Land" was and is a favorite of mine. Although, in the clubs in Boston, I don't recall it as being anything special. Many times the song was mixed with the Undisputed Truth's version which came out about the same time. Their version has a bit more energy. I can never decide if I prefer one version over the other - depends on my mood I guess, as is the case with many Motown songs.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tJ0Kt4oxkkQ

[johnjeb]

BTW there were also two versions of "Soul Makossa". I have both 45s and I can't think who did the other version. Both were out about the same time also.

Black Skinned Blue-Eyed Boys by the Equals on Shout Records, if I recall, was another favorite in those early years.

The Bottle by Gil Scott-Heron, and so many others.

Gloria Gaynor's "Honeybee" came out in 1973, I think, on a Columbia 45. After she had her hit with "Never Can Say Goodbye" on MGM, "Honeybee" was included on that album. Ah, the memories.

Sorry if my dates are off, I don't have access to my references [[books, CDs or records).

[kenneth]

Van McCoy's "Hustle" was also one of the early, early disco hits...and I think well before they called it disco.

[soulster]

Marybrewster, you must be young if you don't remember "Masterpiece". It was a sizable hit that year, and modeled after "Papa Was A Rolling Stone". Unfortunately, the song doesn't get any airplay on oldies radio, but isn't worn out like it's predecessor.

[marv2]

Read an intersting piece yesterday relating to the "birth" of disco. Many sources credit "Soul Mokossa" [[1973) by Manu Dibango as being the "first disco song" but this article also speculated that the honors could go to The Temptations for "Law of the Land".

Has anyone else ever heard of this? Here it is, from YouTube. I definiately hear disco elements, and remember, this was 1973 as well.....


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xP71jnIy6Ek


I have always heard that Eddie Kendricks, "Girl You Need A Change of Mind" from his 1971 album "Can I" was the first disco song. It was a killer and can fill a dance floor to this very day.

[marv2]

Marybrewster, you must be young if you don't remember "Masterpiece". It was a sizable hit that year, and modeled after "Papa Was A Rolling Stone". Unfortunately, the song doesn't get any airplay on oldies radio, and isn't worn out like it's predecessor.

Kenneth, "The Hustle" came out in the summer of 1975, after disco was already a fad. Before that song came out, we had already had many disco hits, including one that many still consider the first disco hit, but wasn't really a disco hit at all: "Rock The Boat" by The Hues Corporation. Both songs incorporated what was called the Latin Hustle, both a dance and a musical style popularized by "Rock The Boat". Of course, before those, we had other claims to the first disco song:

Love Train - The O'Jays
Where Did Our Love Go - Donnie Ebert
Son Of My Father - Giorgio Moroder
The Love I Lost - Harold Melvin & The Bluenotes [In fact, the drummer [[Earl Young?) is credited for inventing the open-closed syncopotated hi-hat pattern.]
Armed And Extremely Dangerous - First Choice
..and anything by Barry White!

And, we had many disco hits before then, like "Doctor's Orders" by Gloria Gaynor, "Do It "Till You're Satisfied" by B.T. Express, "Attitude Dancing" by Carly Simon, "Swearin' To God" by Frankie Valli, "Rock Me Gently" by Andy Kim, and, again, just about anything by Barry White! But, by 1975, The Tempations had gotten nasty funky with "Shaky Ground"



Many interesting points Soulster and great examples. We had a really nice thread on the main forum from earlier this year covering the Disco Era. I am going to find it and "bump it up" .

[soulster]

Many interesting points Soulster and great examples. We had a really nice thread on the main forum from earlier this year covering the Disco Era. I am going to find it and "bump it up" .

yes, please do! My comments would probably be better served in that thread, as this one is about "Masterpiece". But, the door was opened with the suggestion of it being disco...

[kenneth]

I guess you're right, Marv2. I thought "Hustle" was earlier than that. I do remember "Doctor's Orders" and "Rock the Boat" as being a couple years before.

This is why I love Wikipedia...they have all these facts at your fingertips.

[sunshineonacloudyday]

While Harold Melvin & the Blue Notes' "The Love I Lost" is often credited for ushering in the Disco era, I think there is one earlier song--from the Summer of 1969--that presaged the Disco era more than any other:

"In A Moment" - The Intrigues
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6Or-ac5skrM

[tamla617]

soul makossa was covered by afrique......on pye uk.

its worth getting hold of too imo

[soulster]

I guess you're right, Marv2. I thought "Hustle" was earlier than that. I do remember "Doctor's Orders" and "Rock the Boat" as being a couple years before.

This is why I love Wikipedia...they have all these facts at your fingertips.

I don't need Wikipedia. I just remember it all because I grew up in the 60s and 70s. I'm pretty good at timelines and such. In fact, "Rock The Boat" was on the top of the charts exactly one year earlier than "The Hustle". "Doctor's Orders" was on the charts around Chrstmastime in 1974.

[roger]

yes, please do! My comments would probably be better served in that thread, as this one is about "Masterpiece". But, the door was opened with the suggestion of it being disco...

Actually Soulster .. when this thread started it was about "Law Of The Land" :)

"Law of The Land" by THE TEMPTATIONS was released as a 45 in Britain in September 1973 and got to #41 on the UK Charts .. not a huge hit but much better than "Masterpiece" which didn't chart at all.

Over the years there have been a number of threads here on SDF about what could have been the first "Disco" record and what can be considered a "Disco" record. There is even a constant debate about whether "Disco" was a style of music or whether it was just music that was promoted and popularised through being played in Discos!!

Living in Britain I first came across the term "Disco" late in the '60s .. a "Disco" was a nightclub that played music off disc for people to dance to, rather than having live bands. Every large town and city had at least one .. predominantly they played "Black" music .. R&B/Soul/Motown/Stax/Reggae/Rocksteady .. and if it was "Pop" it was the more uptempo and dancable/R&B influenced stuff.

At that time, in Britain, we didn't have any R&B Radio .. we didn't have much music radio at all actually .. and the only public place where you could hear a lot of Soul/R&B being played was in a "Disco". However the term "Disco" related to the venue, not to the music being played there.

It was also "common knowledge" in Britain that in the U.S. nightclubs featured "live bands" and were not "Discos" as such and that to hear Soul/R&B all you had to do was tune into a local Radio Station [[this is probably a sweeping generalisation).

Anyway, the point that I'm trying to make is that in the late '60s/early '70s in the U.S. Soul/R&B was generally promoted and popularised via the Radio, in Britain "Disco" exposure was equally important. This meant that in this period the best selling "Soul/R&B" tunes in Britain tended to be uptempo/midtempo material [[nowadays known as "Northern Soul") .. in the U.S. there was a mix of Uptempo, Ballad and Funk material. Crucially, U.S. record companies, when recording and releasing R&B/Soul would have an eye out for how it sounded on the Radio, not how it sounded in a Nightclub.

I can hardly claim to be an expert on what was going on in the U.S. at that time, living 3000 Miles away, but from my outside perspective .. reading "Blues & Soul" etc. it seems that sometime around 1972/3 "Discos" started to become established in parts of the U.S. and that overwhelmingly they were playing uptempo/midtempo R&B/Soul. So, sales of uptempo R&B/Soul started to pick up and some U.S. record companies [[Roulette, Scepter and P.I.R. come to mind) started to think about how their releases might sound in a nightclub. And some people started calling this music "Disco".

So, I think what actually makes a record a "Disco" record is it being recorded/produced with how it sounds when played in a nightclub being a major consideration.

I'm not sure about the exact first time that I first saw "Disco" in "Blues & Soul" being used to describe a variety of music rather than a venue but it would have had to have been some time late in 1973, especially with new Philadelphia recordings like "The Love I Lost"/"Look Me Up"/"Both Ends Against The Middle" ... certainly by mid 1974 the term was being used very liberally to describe new uptempo R&B/Soul .. "Rock The Boat"/T.S.O.P/"Rock Your Baby" etc. etc.

Back to "The Law Of The Land", it certainly fitted in with this new phenomenon, it was very "up" and dancable. Whether it was recorded/produced with "Disco" play in mind is another matter, there was an instrumental version of the tune released in 1974 which undoubtedly was.

ALFIE KHAN SOUND ORCHESTRA .. "Law Of the Land"

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EWDRme7EKOw

Roger

[daddyacey]

I got a schizum about that label or term Disco. What ever happened to Disco? Was it music with a basic 100 to 130 bpm drum beat ,that was danced to and played in the clubs, or Discotheques aka Disco's. Wasn't there clubs before they started calling them discos? What was the music they danced to before Disco called. R&B?/Soul, Funk????

Johnjeb--"Black Skinned Blue-Eyed Boys by the Equals on Shout Records, if I recall, was another favorite in those early years."

Yes that was/is a bad azz jam. It was 71/72 ,and I was in high school. A classmate of mine turned me on to it. They were playing it at the parties in the Village , Mancuso's Loft , and it worked it's way into the Black teen clubs in the Bronx ,along with Kool and The Gang [[FUNKY MAN ,FUNKY STUFF) for example as well as older records like The Horse , Mayfields "We're A Winner" ,Dyke & The Blazers "Funky Broadway" and countless other R&B/Soul tracks , that were our dance music. We didn't have any specific name for it.

Roger--
[["I can hardly claim to be an expert on what was going on in the U.S. at that time, living 3000 Miles away, but from my outside perspective .. reading "Blues & Soul" etc. it seems that sometime around 1972/3 "Discos" started to become established in parts of the U.S. and that overwhelmingly they were playing uptempo/midtempo R&B/Soul. So, sales of uptempo R&B/Soul started to pick up and some U.S. record companies [[Roulette, Scepter and P.I.R. come to mind) started to think about how their releases might sound in a nightclub. And some people started calling this music "Disco".)

Partially correct ,but the record companies didn't really catch up/ become involved until later around the late 70's. During the early 60's the European concept of the Discotheque was considered a Jet-Set ,in thing here in the states. There were dance music recordings out then that were played in the Discotheque Bars and clubs, which were basically underground ,but records like The Peppermint Twist ,[[Joey Dee) ,The Twist [[Chubby Checker) ,Mashed Potatoe were played there ,,and since they were dance music played in clubs I guess in hindsight they were "Disco Records/Music too.
"Disco", was a fad ,a label that was put on all dancable music and specifically R&B/Soul as a basis for an industry. There was always danceable R&B/Soul music before they started calling it Disco and applying a certain style to it.

[["However the term "Disco" related to the venue, not to the music being played there.")

And that's where things got out of control here. Clubs and D.J's started to grow in numbers and diversify in types of music being played ,to be unique ,the common factor was that all the music was and had to be ...Danceable.

[["soul makossa was covered by afrique......on pye uk.")

The original Dibango recording of "Makossa" was played in the upscale Discotheque in N.Y. called The Rasberry Freeze, which was the hangout of N.Y. radio DJ Frankie Crocker. He played it on the air but it was a French import by way of Africa and was not available here in the U.S. commercially. Afrique picked up on it and eventually Atlantic put the original out here. Aint nothin like the real thing and the original holds to this day to be a classic.........Dance track.

Back to "Law" , a danceable track no doubt , but there were countless danceable records years before that and really ,how can anybody twist they mouth to even dare to call the Temps......Disco.???

Aww hell no.............

[roger]

Daddyacey and Johnjeb ..

"Black Skinned Blue Eyed Boys" by THE EQUALS was a big hit in the U.K. in Late 1970/early 1971 on the President label. It entered the U.K. chart on Dec 19th 1970 and peaked at #9.

THE EQUALS were a multi-racial group fronted by EDDIE GRANT and I think all their recordings were done in London. They burst into public conciousness in 1968 when their "Baby Come Back" got to #1 across Europe .. I think I'm right in saying it was #1 in France first then got repromoted in Britain where it also got to #1.

Tamla617 .. that version of "Soul Makossa" by Afrique came out on Mainsteam in the U.S. and I believe it got released on Pye in the U.K. later.

And everyone .. "Doctors Orders" was originally a U.K. Top 10 entry in the spring of 1974 for SUNNY, some 6 months before it got picked up by CAROL DOUGLAS who did her "Gloria-Gaynoresque" version of it. SUNNY [[LESLIE) was one of the top London female session singers and was involved in a lot of studio projects notably BROTHERHOOD OF MAN ..

This is her version ..

SUNNY .. "Doctor's Orders".

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=smX3rWqsLpg

Roger

[marv2]

I got a schizum about that label or term Disco. What ever happened to Disco? Was it music with a basic 100 to 130 bpm drum beat ,that was danced to and played in the clubs, or Discotheques aka Disco's. Wasn't there clubs before they started calling them discos? What was the music they danced to before Disco called. R&B?/Soul, Funk????

Johnjeb--"Black Skinned Blue-Eyed Boys by the Equals on Shout Records, if I recall, was another favorite in those early years."

Yes that was/is a bad azz jam. It was 71/72 ,and I was in high school. A classmate of mine turned me on to it. They were playing it at the parties in the Village , Mancuso's Loft , and it worked it's way into the Black teen clubs in the Bronx ,along with Kool and The Gang [[FUNKY MAN ,FUNKY STUFF) for example as well as older records like The Horse , Mayfields "We're A Winner" ,Dyke & The Blazers "Funky Broadway" and countless other R&B/Soul tracks , that were our dance music. We didn't have any specific name for it.

Roger--
[["I can hardly claim to be an expert on what was going on in the U.S. at that time, living 3000 Miles away, but from my outside perspective .. reading "Blues & Soul" etc. it seems that sometime around 1972/3 "Discos" started to become established in parts of the U.S. and that overwhelmingly they were playing uptempo/midtempo R&B/Soul. So, sales of uptempo R&B/Soul started to pick up and some U.S. record companies [[Roulette, Scepter and P.I.R. come to mind) started to think about how their releases might sound in a nightclub. And some people started calling this music "Disco".)

Partially correct ,but the record companies didn't really catch up/ become involved until later around the late 70's. During the early 60's the European concept of the Discotheque was considered a Jet-Set ,in thing here in the states. There were dance music recordings out then that were played in the Discotheque Bars and clubs, which were basically underground ,but records like The Peppermint Twist ,[[Joey Dee) ,The Twist [[Chubby Checker) ,Mashed Potatoe were played there ,,and since they were dance music played in clubs I guess in hindsight they were "Disco Records/Music too.
"Disco", was a fad ,a label that was put on all dancable music and specifically R&B/Soul as a basis for an industry. There was always danceable R&B/Soul music before they started calling it Disco and applying a certain style to it.

[["However the term "Disco" related to the venue, not to the music being played there.")

And that's where things got out of control here. Clubs and D.J's started to grow in numbers and diversify in types of music being played ,to be unique ,the common factor was that all the music was and had to be ...Danceable.

[["soul makossa was covered by afrique......on pye uk.")

The original Dibango recording of "Makossa" was played in the upscale Discotheque in N.Y. called The Rasberry Freeze, which was the hangout of N.Y. radio DJ Frankie Crocker. He played it on the air but it was a French import by way of Africa and was not available here in the U.S. commercially. Afrique picked up on it and eventually Atlantic put the original out here. Aint nothin like the real thing and the original holds to this day to be a classic.........Dance track.

Back to "Law" , a danceable track no doubt , but there were countless danceable records years before that and really ,how can anybody twist they mouth to even dare to call the Temps......Disco.???

Aww hell no.............

I had never heard of the Temptations being referred to as a Disco act either.

[soulster]

I'm going to try to move this line of discussion over to here:
http://soulfuldetroit.com/showthread.php?1018-The-DISCO-Era!-Come-On-You-Know-You-Liked-It!&p=66972#post66972

[soulster]

I had never heard of the Temptations being referred to as a Disco act either.

Me neither! But, in retrospect, one cannot deny the sound was there. Just like with the O'Jay's "Love Train". It was just a groovin' soul song in late 1972 to us, but if you take off the vocal track...straight-up disco! well, Tom Moulton did just that in the "disco" remix, he faded down the vocals for part of it.

[arrr&bee]

Haha,may i chime in for a second,i haven't the faintest idea of what the first disco song was[and i don't lose any sleep over it either]but i've mentioned before that although it wasn't a hit coming at the end for them as it were the marvelettes cover of[a breathtaking guy-1971]could've been a nice disco tune...if you have the track take a listen!

[soulster]

Getting back to "Law of the Land": It's not even close to disco!

[marv2]

I'm going to try to move this line of discussion over to here:
http://soulfuldetroit.com/showthread.php?1018-The-DISCO-Era!-Come-On-You-Know-You-Liked-It!&p=66972#post66972

Hey cool! See ya there.

[mr soul]

Trammps Zing from 1972 must have been one of the first Disco records.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vx0pnqoenbQ

[tamla617]

manu's soul makossa was originally the theme to camaroon's "match of the day" football [[soccer to the cousins!) tv prog.

and i'll agree with those that dont think the temps were a disco group.
what about hughs corp. rock the boat,george mc crae's rock your baby?mfsb TSOP 1974? i dont think disco was much earlier.being played in a disco doesnt make it disco.i know we were not calling those disco or anything before them.i do remember the donna summer,gorgio moroder and munich machine stuff being dubbed [[euro) disco

[candykamaine]

I don't think the tempts were disco either, the only close thing they came to disco was thier 1978 atlantic album.

[soulster]

marybrewster hasn't been back to this thread since she started it. I wonder why.

[paladin]

Hey Candy they released a couple of other disco records.........most notably their effort "Do The Temptations" Track 1. Why Cant You and me Get Together and track 4. Theres No Stopping Until We Set The World Rocking........

3597





I never considered them being a disco act and never once thought about Law Of The Land that way, just more of Norman Whitfields magic, although to stay current they had to drop a disco sounding tune here and there.......and If I go back to their Album Psyhedelic Shack........"You Need Love Like I do Dont You", another Whitfield tune...... sounds tailor made for disco.......lol......

[marybrewster]

marybrewster hasn't been back to this thread since she started it. I wonder why.

Did you miss me?

Interesting conversation; nice to read all of your opinions.

[marybrewster]

And for those of you with your panties in a bunch, where does my post, or the article I refer to, call The Temptations a "disco act"? Could someone PLEASE point that out to me? kthanksbye

[marybrewster]

Actually Soulster .. when this thread started it was about "Law Of The Land" :)

"Law of The Land" by THE TEMPTATIONS was released as a 45 in Britain in September 1973 and got to #41 on the UK Charts .. not a huge hit but much better than "Masterpiece" which didn't chart at all.

Over the years there have been a number of threads here on SDF about what could have been the first "Disco" record and what can be considered a "Disco" record. There is even a constant debate about whether "Disco" was a style of music or whether it was just music that was promoted and popularised through being played in Discos!!

Living in Britain I first came across the term "Disco" late in the '60s .. a "Disco" was a nightclub that played music off disc for people to dance to, rather than having live bands. Every large town and city had at least one .. predominantly they played "Black" music .. R&B/Soul/Motown/Stax/Reggae/Rocksteady .. and if it was "Pop" it was the more uptempo and dancable/R&B influenced stuff.

At that time, in Britain, we didn't have any R&B Radio .. we didn't have much music radio at all actually .. and the only public place where you could hear a lot of Soul/R&B being played was in a "Disco". However the term "Disco" related to the venue, not to the music being played there.

It was also "common knowledge" in Britain that in the U.S. nightclubs featured "live bands" and were not "Discos" as such and that to hear Soul/R&B all you had to do was tune into a local Radio Station [[this is probably a sweeping generalisation).

Anyway, the point that I'm trying to make is that in the late '60s/early '70s in the U.S. Soul/R&B was generally promoted and popularised via the Radio, in Britain "Disco" exposure was equally important. This meant that in this period the best selling "Soul/R&B" tunes in Britain tended to be uptempo/midtempo material [[nowadays known as "Northern Soul") .. in the U.S. there was a mix of Uptempo, Ballad and Funk material. Crucially, U.S. record companies, when recording and releasing R&B/Soul would have an eye out for how it sounded on the Radio, not how it sounded in a Nightclub.

I can hardly claim to be an expert on what was going on in the U.S. at that time, living 3000 Miles away, but from my outside perspective .. reading "Blues & Soul" etc. it seems that sometime around 1972/3 "Discos" started to become established in parts of the U.S. and that overwhelmingly they were playing uptempo/midtempo R&B/Soul. So, sales of uptempo R&B/Soul started to pick up and some U.S. record companies [[Roulette, Scepter and P.I.R. come to mind) started to think about how their releases might sound in a nightclub. And some people started calling this music "Disco".

So, I think what actually makes a record a "Disco" record is it being recorded/produced with how it sounds when played in a nightclub being a major consideration.

I'm not sure about the exact first time that I first saw "Disco" in "Blues & Soul" being used to describe a variety of music rather than a venue but it would have had to have been some time late in 1973, especially with new Philadelphia recordings like "The Love I Lost"/"Look Me Up"/"Both Ends Against The Middle" ... certainly by mid 1974 the term was being used very liberally to describe new uptempo R&B/Soul .. "Rock The Boat"/T.S.O.P/"Rock Your Baby" etc. etc.

Back to "The Law Of The Land", it certainly fitted in with this new phenomenon, it was very "up" and dancable. Whether it was recorded/produced with "Disco" play in mind is another matter, there was an instrumental version of the tune released in 1974 which undoubtedly was.

ALFIE KHAN SOUND ORCHESTRA .. "Law Of the Land"

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EWDRme7EKOw

Roger

Thank you for this brilliant and well put together post. Very educational, you could teach "Disco 101". :)

[candykamaine]

Hey Candy they released a couple of other disco records.........most notably their effort "Do The Temptations" Track 1. Why Cant You and me Get Together and track 4. Theres No Stopping Until We Set The World Rocking........

3597


.

Thanks for reminding me, I forgot about that album a bit. :o

[tamla617]

very good roger

[soulster]

And for those of you with your panties in a bunch, where does my post, or the article I refer to, call The Temptations a "disco act"? Could someone PLEASE point that out to me? kthanksbye

I think it's your thread title...

[roger]

I think it's your thread title...

But the thread title does have a question mark at the end which implies a certain disbelief that THE TEMPTATIONS could be labelled as a "Disco" act!!

If I think about it, of the established Motown acts back in 1975/6, THE TEMPTATIONS were probably the ones who were least "tempted" to jump on the "Disco" bandwagon. Motown, as a whole, seemed resistant to the trend, but then we had DIANA ROSS with "Love Hangover", THE JACKSON FIVE with "Forever Came Today", THE ORIGINALS with "Down To Love Town, THE MIRACLES with "Love Machine" [[all recordings I really love) and Motown joined in.

Norman Whitfield, the writer and producer of "Law Of The Land" also produced some great "Disco" tracks in 1976/77 .. "You Plus Me" by THE UNDISPUTED TRUTH and some of the recordings by ROSE ROYCE come to mind.

Roger

[soulster]

But the thread title does have a question mark at the end which implies a certain disbelief that THE TEMPTATIONS could be labelled as a "Disco" act!!


Yes, but it opens the door...

[sunshineonacloudyday]

Here's a review of The Temptations "DO THE TEMPTATIONS" LP from the newspaper SOUL America's Most Soulful Newspaper, Vol 2 No. 14 [[Oct 26,1976):

This is an album for those who have lost faith in The Temptations. The Temps have tried on several different 'sounds' since leaving long-time producer Norman Whitfield in 1973, and now they seem to have hit it right with this new LP. Surprise! In many ways, this is the same sound they left behind. Catchy, hummable music lives anew.
On Display for the first time in a while are some of the things that used to be associated so closely with the Temps. Their harmony is once more at peak form, from the soring tenor of newcomer Glenn Leonard in the slow song "I'm On Fire", to the grumblingly sensuous ad-libs of bass singer Melvin Franklin in the same tune.
"There Is No Stopping [['Til We Set The Whole World Rockin')" is the obligatory disco tune on the album, and even at that, it comes out sounding good because of a few dashes of the old time Temps' finesse.
"Who Are You [[And What Are You Doing The Rest Of Your Life)?", features some pretty nice guitar work and has an upbeat happiness to it that pretty well characterizes the rest of the LP.
The Temptations wrote and seem to enjoy doing the material on this album, and their enjoyment shows in snappy, old-fashioned songs like "Put Your Trust In me, Baby", while the song "I;Take You In" has a well-done preach/rap lead by Edwards going for it.


On the same page, under "Hot Singles", is another interesting review:

"Catfish", The Four Tops. Like everyone else, the Four Tops have decided to go disco, so "Catfish" was "thrown" together to provide a danceable record with ridiculous lyrics. The intro is good, the beat average, but the lyrics are a little hard to deal with. Since this is the title track of their upcoming LP, one wonders what the rest of the LP will be like.

Incidently, one of the cover stories in this same issue is titled, Is Black radio disappearing into thin air?. The article laments the fact that "crossover" "Groups such as Wild Cherry, Average White Band, Boz Scaggs, Hall and Oates, John Valenti... are getting airplay on what used to be Black radio stations." the author interviews several program directors from around the country who basically agree they "play music that attracts the most audience."

Certainly, no one familiar with the music of The Temptations would call them a "disco act", but a guy's gotta eat and pay the rent.


I think The Godfather of Soul, James Brown summarized the impact of the Disco era on old-school Soul and R&B artists best in his 1986 autobiography. Particularly the synthesized period, where he felt irrelevant. It was a difficult period for him and other acts who were used to making their living off live tours:

By the middle of 1975 disco had broken big. Disco is a simplification of a lot of what I was doing, of what they thought I was doing. Disco is a very small part of Funk. It's the end of the song, the repetious part, like a vamp. The difference is that in the funk you dig into a groove, you don't stay on the surface. Disco stayed on the surface...

Disco was easy for artists to get into because they really didnt have to do anything. Its was all electronic sequencers and beats-per-minute--it was done with machines....They thought they could dress up in a Superfly outfit, play one note, and that would make them a star...But that was not the answer. It destroyed the musical basis that so many people worked so hard to build up in the sixties. The record companies loved disco because it was a producer's music....

Disco hurt me in a lot of ways. I was trying to make good hard funk records that Polydor was trying to soften up, while the people were buying records with no substance. The disco people copied off me and tried to throw me away and go with young people. You can't do that. You have to come back to the source. Disco hurt live music in general...

[mysterysinger]

Ok everyone knows disco is short for discotheque [[French) = an entertainment venue or club with recorded music played by Disc jockeys through a PA system. We also know that Jimmy Saville started it all in 1943 in Otley [[look it up on Wiki). We also know that Gloria Gaynor didn't do Doctor's Orders - Sunny did the original and definitive version and Carol Douglas did an inferior version [[but the "B" side "Baby Don't Let This Good Love Die" was something else). Actually Jane McDonald also does a reasonable version of Doctor's Orders. I also went to the local disco at Hyde Town Hall on Thursday nights and that was in 1970 - big there were Needle In A Haystack, Band Of Gold, Jimmy Mack, [[Blame It) On The Pony Express, Give Me Just A Little More Time, Candid etc etc. All long before Law of The Land of course. Who can forget Disco Tex and his Sex O Lettes - Get Dancin' which came along much later.

So what was the question?

[paladin]

@ Candy, No big deal........I appreciate your being here.........

[Jimi LaLumia]

actually, Regine started it all in France..http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/R%C3%A9gine_Zylberberg

[soulster]

I think The Godfather of Soul, James Brown summarized the impact of the Disco era on old-school Soul and R&B artists best in his 1986 autobiography. Particularly the synthesized period, where he felt irrelevant. It was a difficult period for him and other acts who were used to making their living off live tours:

By the middle of 1975 disco had broken big. Disco is a simplification of a lot of what I was doing, of what they thought I was doing. Disco is a very small part of Funk. It's the end of the song, the repetious part, like a vamp. The difference is that in the funk you dig into a groove, you don't stay on the surface. Disco stayed on the surface...

Disco was easy for artists to get into because they really didnt have to do anything. Its was all electronic sequencers and beats-per-minute--it was done with machines....They thought they could dress up in a Superfly outfit, play one note, and that would make them a star...But that was not the answer. It destroyed the musical basis that so many people worked so hard to build up in the sixties. The record companies loved disco because it was a producer's music....

Disco hurt me in a lot of ways. I was trying to make good hard funk records that Polydor was trying to soften up, while the people were buying records with no substance. The disco people copied off me and tried to throw me away and go with young people. You can't do that. You have to come back to the source. Disco hurt live music in general...

James Brown summed it up nicely, but I didn't detect that much bitterness in him. After all, he know he was the man who started it all. I will say that it seems the Europeans, where the brand of disco Americans came to despise, doesn't seem to have been based that much in American R&B.

[marybrewster]

I think it's your thread title...

I stand corrected. What I was trying to imply is that the referenced article suggested they were the PIONEERS of Disco. Po-tay-to. po-tah-to. :)

[soulster]

I stand corrected. What I was trying to imply is that the referenced article suggested they were the PIONEERS of Disco. Po-tay-to. po-tah-to. :)

Well, we know the person who wrote the article is wrong.

[sunshineonacloudyday]

In the sixties USA, large dance halls playing pre-recorded music was not new. However, by the late 60s, the socio-political climate was ripe for a new phenomenon: The first wave of Baby Boomers turned 21 years old--"club age" around this time. By the early 70s, Nixon's resignation and the end of the Vietnam War lifted people's spirits, and we left the streets for the Discos. The upbeat, uptempo music of that time [[especially coming out of Philly!), reflected the collective mood. We called it "Disco Music" [[still Soul Music then), and 'Disco' clubs was where we danced to it.

But while we may have danced to records in the clubs, we also flocked to see the artists perform live too. One of the most memorable shows for me at this time was Harold Melvin and The Blue Notes, with KC & the Sunshine Band. We danced our asses off, to both live music, and to records in a Disco.

The scene changed by the late 70s, with dance/synth DJ music attracting a younger crowd and taking precedence over live music, or recorded music made by musicians, as James Brown stated.

[marybrewster]

Well, we know the person who wrote the article is wrong.

But TRULY, is there EVER ANY article that isn't without inaccuracies or personal opinion?

We can argue this all day long, and I have the time, so bring your best.

[roger]

I've been doing a spot of googling and I've found this on discomusic.com that references the notion that "Law Of The Land" by THE TEMPTATIONS could be regarded as the first "Disco" record.

http://www.discomusic.com/forums/showthread.php/7942-Another-first-disco-quot-Law-Of-The-Land-quot-by-Temptati

It seems the quote comes from a book called "Turn The Beat Around" by PETER SHAPIRO.

http://www.amazon.com/Turn-Beat-Around-Secret-History/dp/0571211941

Of course, what this thread has illustrated is what an emotive term "Disco Music" can be. As a UK resident I have to say I've never understood what the objection is supposed to be ..

Roger

[soulster]

Of course, what this thread has illustrated is what an emotive term "Disco Music" can be. As a UK resident I have to say I've never understood what the objection is supposed to be ..

Roger

As an American resident, I can tell you exactly what it is. It's several things: racism, sexism, and homophobia. Then, there's the belief among many of disco's critics that it is not real music. Jazz fans say it is simple, and reduces music to it's primal elements. Rock fans claim that there's no real musicianship, or that it's a producer's medium. Religious and conservative types criticize the liberal use of drugs and the alleged promotion of casual sex associated with disco, all while ignoring the prevalence of these things in other types of music. And, what is interesting is how disco's critics are the same as critics of hip-hop, that it's not real music. What comes to my mind when this is mentioned is that both of those forms of music have deep roots in Black American culture.

One of the reasons disco was despised is simply that the record labels exploited it, shoved it in our faces. It was everywhere! To the labels, disco was a quick buck, and it's recklessness and saturation of the market led to the record industry depression on the early 80s.

Was disco derivative? Sure it was! All modern music is derivative of something that came before it.

[marv2]

As an American resident, I can tell you exactly what it is. It's several things: racism, sexism, and homophobia. Then, there's the belief among many of disco's critics that it is not real music. Jazz fans say it is simple, and reduces music to it's primal elements. Rock fans claim that there's no real musicianship, or that it's a producer's medium. Religious and conservative types criticize the liberal use of drugs and the alleged promotion of casual sex associated with disco, all while ignoring the prevalence of these things in other types of music. And, what is interesting is how disco's critics are the same as critics of hip-hop, that it's not real music. What comes to my mind when this is mentioned is that both of those forms of music have deep roots in Black American culture.

One of the reasons disco was despised is simply that the record labels exploited it, shoved it in our faces. It was everywhere! To the labels, disco was a quick buck, and it's recklessness and saturation of the market led to the record industry depression on the early 80s.

Was disco derivative? Sure it was! All modern music is derivative of something that came before it.


Several good and accurate points Soulster!

[soulster]

Several good and accurate points Soulster!

* The music has it's foundation in the music of Black Americans
* The vast majority of disco's stars stars were female and/or Black. The voice heard on disco records were most often female voices.
* The majority of D.J.s were gay.
* The natural constituency of disco music and discos were Black, Latino, and gays.
* The focus of disco music was on the rhythm section, not the guitar.
* In the height of disco's popularity in the late 70s, with the sudden dominance of Eurodisco, the deep groove rhythm was de-emphasized, and steady, monotonous, four beats-per-measure, and simple bass patterns were emphasised and sped up. The emotive singing was removed and replaced with nebulous chanting or repetitious words. Think cheap porno music from the 70s and early 80s.
* By 1978, it seemed that every artist was forced to release a disco song. Most pop songs had some kind of disco feel. Many veteran artists had little choice but to record disco albums or sit out the fad. Either way, they lost sales
* It was a producer-driven genre, without many self-contained bands, although the most successful songs came from them.
* Enjoying disco music was seen as having a requirement of knowing how to dance, and go dancing, one usually had to "dress up" or adhere to a specific dress code.

These are just some of the reasons people hated disco.

There were scores of R&B artists who felt pressured into disco:
James Brown
Wilson Pickett
The Temptations
Four Tops
Curtis Mayfield
O'Jays
Manhattans
Johnnie Taylor
Issac Hayes
Jerry Butler
Joe Tex
Billy Preston
Aretha Franklin

The list goes on...

The rock artists who had, or were forced to put disco songs on their albums were:

Alice Cooper
Kiss
Heart
Rolling Stones
Blondie
Rod Stewart

Some of them were successful, some not.

[roger]

As an American resident, I can tell you exactly what it is. It's several things: racism, sexism, and homophobia. Then, there's the belief among many of disco's critics that it is not real music. Jazz fans say it is simple, and reduces music to it's primal elements. Rock fans claim that there's no real musicianship, or that it's a producer's medium. Religious and conservative types criticize the liberal use of drugs and the alleged promotion of casual sex associated with disco, all while ignoring the prevalence of these things in other types of music.

Well, I have to agree on virtually everything you say here Soulster. But what we have here are two strands of reasoning. Dislike of "Disco" as a type of music, and dislike of "Disco" as an element of somebody's choice of lifestyle.

I can understand objections of "Rock" and "Jazz" fans on purely musical grounds, if they liked "Disco" as a musical form they would not have been been keen "Rock" or "Jazz" fans to begin with.

As to objections to the music on "moral" grounds .. so what? As you say, these things are just as prevelent with other forms of music.

What I find difficult to understand is why some regular [[American) posters on this forum get upset when a good Soul/R&B record from the mid '70s is described as "Disco" when
A : It was, and still is, highly "up" and danceable.
B : It had the type of sound that at the time was being described as "Disco".
C : It was popular and appeared in "Disco" charts published in Record World/Billboard/Blues & Soul etc.
Especially as, in 1974/75/76 .. "Disco" was one of the main strands of Soul/R&B .. a souped-up version of Soul and/or Funk, with a few Latin elements thrown in.


One of the reasons disco was despised is simply that the record labels exploited it, shoved it in our faces. It was everywhere!


I think in Britain we were a bit lucky in that in 1978/79 we escaped a lot of that over-exposure. "Disco" was just another type of music here, alongside "Rock", "Pop", "Punk", "Reggae", "Jazz-Funk", "Country", "Northern Soul" etc. etc. One Radio Station [[Radio Luxembourg, a nighttime AM station broadcasting from Continental Europe) adopted a "Disco" format for a while but that was the only one.

Another big difference here was that in 1977 there was a big explosion of interest in "Punk-Rock" spearheaded by THE SEX PISTOLS. It quickly morphed into "New Wave" , a slightly less abrasive form of "Punk Rock" which was also very commercially successful.

As I recall, in 1978/79 British "Rock" fans disliked "Punk Rock/New Wave" just as much as they disliked "Disco" [[ which to them would include Soul, Funk and Jazz/Funk ) if not more!!



* The music has it's foundation in the music of Black Americans
* The vast majority of disco's stars stars were female and/or Black. The voice heard on disco records were most often female voices.
* The majority of D.J.s were gay.
* The natural constituency of disco music and discos were Black, Latino, and gays.
* The focus of disco music was on the rhythm section, not the guitar.
* In the height of disco's popularity in the late 70s, with the sudden dominance of Eurodisco, the deep groove rhythm was de-emphasized, and steady, monotonous, four beats-per-measure, and simple bass patterns were emphasised and sped up. The emotive singing was removed and replaced with nebulous chanting or repetitious words. Think cheap porno music from the 70s and early 80s.
* By 1978, it seemed that every artist was forced to release a disco song. Most pop songs had some kind of disco feel. Many veteran artists had little choice but to record disco albums or sit out the fad. Either way, they lost sales
* It was a producer-driven genre, without many self-contained bands, although the most successful songs came from them.
* Enjoying disco music was seen as having a requirement of knowing how to dance, and go dancing, one usually had to "dress up" or adhere to a specific dress code.

These are just some of the reasons people hated disco.


Well yes .. if you are talking about 1978/79. Some points wouldn't be true in 1974/75/76 and some of the points wouldn't have been relevent in Britain.

* The music has it's foundation in the music of Black Americans

Yes, I totally agree .. though some people on this forum try to pretend it is not the case.

* The vast majority of disco's stars stars were female and/or Black.

In the latter days females predominated. Black artists predominated from the beginning.

* The voice heard on disco records were most often female voices.

Only in the later years.

* The majority of D.J.s were gay.

Quite possibly, though how can you tell, you can never be certain that someone is not gay? :)

* The natural constituency of disco music and discos were Black, Latino, and gays.

In the U.S. most probably yes. In Britain it was just as much a white working class phenomenon. Black British people were more likely to be interested in Reggae. Latinos [[in the U.S. sense) don't exist here.

* The focus of disco music was on the rhythm section, not the guitar.

Yes .. which is what I like about it!!

* In the height of disco's popularity in the late 70s, with the sudden dominance of Eurodisco, the deep groove rhythm was de-emphasized, and steady, monotonous, four beats-per-measure, and simple bass patterns were emphasised and sped up. The emotive singing was removed and replaced with nebulous chanting or repetitious words. Think cheap porno music from the 70s and early 80s.

Yes .. which is when I started to tire of it, though by 1979 Soul/R&B already seemed to be abandoning the fast and furious sounds of 1976/77 and funkier slower dance grooves were coming back into fashion .. kicked off by records such as "Shame" by EVELYN "CHAMPAGNE" KING and "Boogie Oogie Oogie" by TASTE OF HONEY.

* By 1978, it seemed that every artist was forced to release a disco song. Most pop songs had some kind of disco feel. Many veteran artists had little choice but to record disco albums or sit out the fad. Either way, they lost sales

I'm not sure if "forced to release" is correct, maybe "felt the need to release" is closer to the mark.

Artists like JAMES BROWN certainly suffered, and I felt that too many of the "Disco" tracks that established Soul/R&B acts were releasing were too long, padded out with conga drum intros and outros [[useful for lazy DJs) and overlong, unimaginative instrumental breaks.

"Get Down" by GENE CHANDLER is a good example of this .. as a 3 minute 7" single I think it works well, as a 7 minute 12" to me it is overlong!!

* It was a producer-driven genre, without many self-contained bands, although the most successful songs came from them.

Well yes, but then that was often the case with pre "Disco Era" Soul Music .. Motown was very producer driven .. especially those Norman Whitfield productions by the likes of THE TEMPTATIONS and THE UNDISPUTED TRUTH .. :)

* Enjoying disco music was seen as having a requirement of knowing how to dance, and go dancing, one usually had to "dress up" or adhere to a specific dress code.

Yes, we had all of that in Britain, the wise amongst us would practice our dance moves in front of a mirror at home.



There were scores of R&B artists who felt pressured into disco:
James Brown
Wilson Pickett
The Temptations
Four Tops
Curtis Mayfield
O'Jays
Manhattans
Johnnie Taylor
Issac Hayes
Jerry Butler
Joe Tex
Billy Preston
Aretha Franklin

The list goes on...


Well, I think a list of Soul/R&B acts that didn't record a "Disco" track or two in the 1974-78 period would be very short. As to them being "pressured" into it I have my doubts, I'm sure many of them enjoyed singing those songs.

Should THE O'JAYS should be on that list? .. their "Love Train" was one of those "pre-disco-era" tracks that virtually defined the genre and their "I Love Music" [[ which to me is very "Disco" ) is such a good song I can't possibly imagine them having to be "pressured" into recording it.

Similarly WILSON PICKETT's pre-disco-era "In Philadelphia" L.P. has some very "disco" tracks, check out "International Playboy", and I think his career was in decline well before "disco" was used to describe a style of music.

As for THE TEMPTATIONS, back in the 1960s they were recording uptempo dance gems such as "Get Ready" and "Ain't Too Proud To Beg" which if recorded in another era could have been classified as "Disco".

I could say the same about THE FOUR TOPS and JOHNNIE TAYLOR .. "I Can't Help Myself" and "Who's Making Love" both have a very incessant groove, why wouldn't they do the occasional dance track in the 1970's if that is how they had made their
name to begin with?

With ISAAC HAYES his "Disco Connection" is an absolute gem and was an instant hit with me and the Great British public.

With JOE TEX his "Ain't Gonna Bump No More" was a good fun record, I'm sure he had a ball recording it!

ARETHA FRANKLIN and JAMES BROWN undoubtedly suffered in the Disco Era, but then apart from "Too Funky In Here" by Mr Brown I've never heard anything from either of them from 1977-79 that gets me very excited!



The rock artists who had, or were forced to put disco songs on their albums were:

Alice Cooper
Kiss
Heart
Rolling Stones
Blondie
Rod Stewart


Well .. I think that is where in the U.S. the problem was .. some [[American) "Rock" fans hated their heroes dabbling in "Disco". Though "Satisfaction" by THE ROLLING STONES was as incessant a groove as you could possibly get and in Britain neither BLONDIE nor ROD STEWART were considered as "Rock" acts.

Roger

[captainjames]

Most historians credit this song as the first.


Trammps Zing from 1972 must have been one of the first Disco records.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vx0pnqoenbQ

[soulster]

Roger, you made a lengthy post. I'll have to get back to this later when I have more time.

[Jimi LaLumia]

The first white artist/rock artist to truly dabble in the 70's dance waters was david bowie, with the r&b "Young Americans" album,featuring the fabulous Ava Cherry and a young, unknown Luther Vandross as his backup singers; the album gave birth to Bowie's first u.s. #1 SINGLE "FAME"[[and a subsequent appearance on "Soul Train", a first at the time for a white artist; Elton John followed shortly thereafter with "Philadelphia Freedom")

[soulster]

can understand objections of "Rock" and "Jazz" fans on purely musical grounds, if they liked "Disco" as a musical form they would not have been been keen "Rock" or "Jazz" fans to begin with.

I cannot agree with you there. Many people who like rock and jazz like disco.


As to objections to the music on "moral" grounds .. so what? As you say, these things are just as prevelent with other forms of music.

I the U.S. that objection is most often politically and religiously based. In the first world nations, I think the U.S. is off the charts when it comes to these types of things.


What I find difficult to understand is why some regular [[American) posters on this forum get upset when a good Soul/R&B record from the mid '70s is described as "Disco" when
A : It was, and still is, highly "up" and danceable.
B : It had the type of sound that at the time was being described as "Disco".
C : It was popular and appeared in "Disco" charts published in Record World/Billboard/Blues & Soul etc.
Especially as, in 1974/75/76 .. "Disco" was one of the main strands of Soul/R&B .. a souped-up version of Soul and/or Funk, with a few Latin elements thrown in.

The U.S. is very schizoid about disco. Disco has such a negative image that we don't want the good music to be associated with it. Musically, a lot of stuff isn't disco, but is often lumped in that bag because of racism. There are still many people who reject a type of music because of the artists or the people who listen to it.


I think in Britain we were a bit lucky in that in 1978/79 we escaped a lot of that over-exposure. "Disco" was just another type of music here, alongside "Rock", "Pop", "Punk", "Reggae", "Jazz-Funk", "Country", "Northern Soul" etc. etc. One Radio Station [[Radio Luxembourg, a nighttime AM station broadcasting from Continental Europe) adopted a "Disco" format for a while but that was the only one.

Sure, back in the 70s disco was often played alongside pop/rock music on some radio stations, but it was also a time when radio underwent narrow formats, and it was largely due to...again...racism. A rocker may say it's because the music is just different, but it was often just because whites didn't want to hear "Black" music. Of course, Black were always a bit more accepting of some rock music, but even Black audiences said they didn't want to hear "White" music. The issues of race suns extremely deep in America.


Another big difference here was that in 1977 there was a big explosion of interest in "Punk-Rock" spearheaded by THE SEX PISTOLS. It quickly morphed into "New Wave" , a slightly less abrasive form of "Punk Rock" which was also very commercially successful.

The punk movement was somewhat limited here. If you talk to people from the east coast and places like Los Angeles, they will tell you how big punk was. But, it never really caught on in "Middle America" If it hadn't been for shows like Saturday Night Live, I wouldn't know what punk music was. However, new wave was huge here, and that was only after disco died out. Rap was huge starting from the late 70s.


* The music has it's foundation in the music of Black Americans

Yes, I totally agree .. though some people on this forum try to pretend it is not the case.

I cannot speak for Europe/U.K.. All I can speak about is the U.S.. Everyone here knows good and well that disco's roots are firmly in the musical traditions of Black Americans. That is why racism has been such a big issue with disco.


In the latter days females predominated. Black artists predominated from the beginning.

If we place the beginnings of the disco craze in, say, 1974, i'd say a good 50% of all disco artists, or artists who did disco, were White.


* The voice heard on disco records were most often female voices.

Only in the later years.

Again, consider Odyssey, Gloria Gaynor, Carol Douglas, Silver Convention, Donna Summer, The Ritchie Family, Salsoul Orchestra, The Three Degrees, even the Soul Train Gang! All had hits before 1976. I'd say it was an equal split of male and female.


* The majority of D.J.s were gay.

Quite possibly, though how can you tell, you can never be certain that someone is not gay? :)

I don't know this personally, but from all that I have read, it's pretty true.


Yes .. which is when I started to tire of it, though by 1979 Soul/R&B already seemed to be abandoning the fast and furious sounds of 1976/77 and funkier slower dance grooves were coming back into fashion .. kicked off by records such as "Shame" by EVELYN "CHAMPAGNE" KING and "Boogie Oogie Oogie" by TASTE OF HONEY.

Uh...the main difference between R&B-flavored disco and the European variety was that the R&B stuff was always a bit slower, and had more of a groove. The band Chic knew this, but was able to weld slower R&B rhythms with Eurodisco styles, and come out winners. Even by 1979, Donna Summer's producers slowed down her music. BTW, Evelyn Champange King and A taste Of Honey didn't come out until late 1978.


I'm not sure if "forced to release" is correct, maybe "felt the need to release" is closer to the mark.

Oh yes! It was even put into contracts that artists had to have at least one disco song on an album. I recall one case in 1977 that radio started playing Alice Cooper's "No More Love At Your Convenience" from his "Lace And Whiskey" album. Suddenly it was quietly withdrawn and "You And me" was issued as a single and became a huge hit for him. I imagine that, while the song was quite good, it hurt his image. Cooper has gone on record admitting to liking some of the older R&B music so often called disco, like the O'Jays.


"Get Down" by GENE CHANDLER is a good example of this .. as a 3 minute 7" single I think it works well, as a 7 minute 12" to me it is overlong!!

I never heard of a song called "Get Down" by Gene Chandler - obviously, it was never a hit here. But Joe Simon had a big R&B hit with a song called "Get Down" in 1975. It wasn't disco. It was straight-up R&B. And, yes, I know very well who Gene Chandler is! I prefer his 60s material.


* It was a producer-driven genre, without many self-contained bands, although the most successful songs came from them.

Well yes, but then that was often the case with pre "Disco Era" Soul Music .. Motown was very producer driven .. especially those Norman Whitfield productions by the likes of THE TEMPTATIONS and THE UNDISPUTED TRUTH .. :)

Correct! But it is another one of those baseless accusations leveled at disco by it's haters.


* Enjoying disco music was seen as having a requirement of knowing how to dance, and go dancing, one usually had to "dress up" or adhere to a specific dress code.

Yes, we had all of that in Britain, the wise amongst us would practice our dance moves in front of a mirror at home.

I'm a Black man who does not dance. Like Sir Nose Divvoidoffunk, I can't dance! I have two left feet. But, I enjoy dance music by listening to it.


Well, I think a list of Soul/R&B acts that didn't record a "Disco" track or two in the 1974-78 period would be very short. As to them being "pressured" into it I have my doubts, I'm sure many of them enjoyed singing those songs.

You keep doubting it, but the record labels often pushed veteran R&B artists into recording disco records. It was in the contract. It was either that, or get dropped by the label, which happened anyway when the records belly-flopped. Many R&B and rock artists complained about it. Others were able to pull it off.


Should THE O'JAYS should be on that list? .. their "Love Train" was one of those "pre-disco-era" tracks that virtually defined the genre and their "I Love Music" [[ which to me is very "Disco" ) is such a good song I can't possibly imagine them having to be "pressured" into recording it.

PIR was a strange animal. Gamble & Huff were sly like that. they saw the way the wind was blowing, and decided to go down the disco road. "I Love Music" is not disco to me. It's just tuff R&B.


Similarly WILSON PICKETT's pre-disco-era "In Philadelphia" L.P. has some very "disco" tracks, check out "International Playboy", and I think his career was in decline well before "disco" was used to describe a style of music.

The last hit Pickett had here in the U.S. is "Don't Let the Green Grass Fool You", which was not disco. But, it was done by Gamble & Huff After that, he had a R&B hit with "Funk Factory". That's the last I heard from him again. He put out disco albums, but they flopped. "Funky Situation" is now being recognized as a classic, but i've heard it. I have no use for it.


As for THE TEMPTATIONS, back in the 1960s they were recording uptempo dance gems such as "Get Ready" and "Ain't Too Proud To Beg" which if recorded in another era could have been classified as "Disco".

I think you're getting carried away with this.


I could say the same about THE FOUR TOPS and JOHNNIE TAYLOR .. "I Can't Help Myself" and "Who's Making Love" both have a very incessant groove, why wouldn't they do the occasional dance track in the 1970's if that is how they had made their
name to begin with?

Again, I think you're getting carried away with this.


With ISAAC HAYES his "Disco Connection" is an absolute gem and was an instant hit with me and the Great British public.

Issac Hayes released "Chocolate Chip" in 1975 on his Hot Buttered Soul label. It was a sizable R&B hit, but he disappeared during the disco years and only surfaced in mid-1978 with his hit "Don't let Go", an R&B cover of Jerry lee Lewis's 50s hit.

[soulster]

Part two:



With JOE TEX his "Ain't Gonna Bump No More" was a good fun record, I'm sure he had a ball recording it!

That was a sly production that morphed a disco song into a deep funk groove that James Brown would have been proud of. The secret? A heavy bass riff. It's a trick Rick James would use on his hit "You And I". Start off the main part of the song as an essentially disco tune, then gradually morph it into deep funk. James stated that he did this on purpose. The Jacksons used this trick again on their "Shake Your Body Down To The Ground". The main part of the song is mainly disco, but the song breaks down into a bass funk with the drums.


Well .. I think that is where in the U.S. the problem was .. some [[American) "Rock" fans hated their heroes dabbling in "Disco"...in Britain neither BLONDIE nor ROD STEWART were considered as "Rock" acts.

Undoubtedly! Most rock fans HATED their sacred rock acts doing disco. However, notice how the Rolling Stones did "Miss You", had a MASSIVE hit with it, but no rocker dare ever call it disco? ROFLOL! Rod Stewart and Blondie were considered very rock in the U.S....at least until they both released disco records! Kiss lost a lot of respect because of "I Was Made For Lovin' You" and "Sure Know Something". It wasn't until Rod Stewart released "DA Ya Think I'm Sexy" that the gross rumors of him having to get semen pumped out of his stomach. And, many have never forgiven him for abandoning his old band Faces.

[soulster]

The first white artist/rock artist to truly dabble in the 70's dance waters was david bowie, with the r&b "Young Americans" album,featuring the fabulous Ava Cherry and a young, unknown Luther Vandross as his backup singers; the album gave birth to Bowie's first u.s. #1 SINGLE "FAME"[[and a subsequent appearance on "Soul Train", a first at the time for a white artist; Elton John followed shortly thereafter with "Philadelphia Freedom")

Not true. Giorgio Moroder was among the first White artists to experiment with disco. And, in 1974, Andy Kim had a huge hit with "Rock Me Gently". David Bowie's "Young Americans" didn't come out for about five months after that. On top of that, there was Harry Wayne Casey and Richard Finch who were the men behind and in front of the T.K. Records output, including their own K.C. & the Sunshine Band.

[paladin]

Got***d**m great posts everyone, I'm specifically enjoying the exchange between Roger and Soulster, but they are far too long for me to jump into. However both of you make good solid points for discussion, once you eliminate the the excess verbiage which may or may not be verifiable. But what really surprises me [[ and I may be wrong due to the lengthy exchanges)) but no one has mentioned the frigging Bee Gee's.......now why is that ? Hell they single handedly saved disco.......ROTFLMAO.........

[soulster]

But what really surprises me [[ and I may be wrong due to the lengthy exchanges)) but no one has mentioned the frigging Bee Gee's.......now why is that ? Hell they single handedly saved disco.......ROTFLMAO.........

That British trio? They didn't save anything! There was nothing to save. Disco was strong. They were just a big part of the landscape starting in late 1977.

BTW, the brothers always said they were doing R&B, not disco.

[daddyacey]

There are some very interesting comments and facts relating to this intense discussion at this site. It's a long read but worth the time. I'd like to discuss some things mentioned in the article that apply directly with issues some of you have mentioned but it must be read so we can be on the same point of reference.
www.jacquespetrus.com [[http://www.jacquespetrus.com)

[wedgeville]

Read somewhere - was it the motown singles vol 7 box? Anyway, sure it said that "Just Look What You've Done" by Brenda Holloway could have been the first record that could be classed as Disco. Not sure though, maybe it was Barbara Randolph...

Loved "Law Of The Land", back in the day, and still play it quite often too.

Wayne

[roger]

Soulster

I'm surprised you can't remember "Get Down" by GENE CHANDLER. It was quite a big U.S. hit.
According to the Billboard/Joel Whitburn reference books it hit #3 R&B, debuting on 28th October 1978 and made #53 on the Billboard "Pop" listings.

In Britain "Get Down" made it to #11 when released her on 20th Century, debuting on 3rd Februaray 1979.

I've found the 7" version posted on YouTube, which is kind of groovy.
As far as I can see no one has posted the 12" version. I'm pretty sure I still have my 12" of it, but its filed away as I find it quite tedious nowadays.
.
"Get Down" .. GENE CHANDLER.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8fuP-HuiSe0

I'm very familiar with "Get Down" by JOE SIMON, full title "Get Down, Get Down [[Get On The Floor)" and bought it back in 1975 when Polydor released it in Britain. To me it was very in the "Disco" groove of the time .. especially with the opening reference to Kung-Fu Bumping .. two of the current dance crazes.
I also bought the similar styled follow up "Music In My Bones", another track that at the time I would have described as "Disco" or perhaps "Disco/Soul".

Neither "Get Down, Get Down" nor "Music In My Bones" by JOE SIMON were very big selling records in Britain. His only chart hit here was "Step By Step" a year or two earlier.

I find it interesting that you describe "Get Down, Get Down" by JOE SIMON as being "straight up R&B", whereas I regard it as "Disco/Soul"

Here is "Get Down, Get Down" by JOE SIMON, complete with an introduction that you should find interesting.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p6bHgd3BCgM

This difference in terminology does illustrate perfectly what I've been trying to say. Back in 1974/75/76 "up" dancefloor orientated R&B records were being referred to as "Disco" and this was long before the influx of Euro-Disco in 1977/78 and the obsession with 128 BPM thud thud thud music, sacharine strings and cooing female choruses. And it was also long before the "Fever" induced by "That" film.

You mention that the U.S. is very "schizoid" about "Disco" nowadays and I've noticed on this forum that some [[American) posters object to the term being used if it is associated with any of their favourites, there seems to be a tendancy to try to pretend that "Disco", as a musical style, only refers to the later "Euro" styled material in 1978/79. All this is very strange to me, it just seems to be a rewriting of history.

I'm being a bit pedantic here but with "Boogie Oogie Oogie" and "Shame", both these records actually came out in the Spring of 1978, not towards the end of the year. Both tunes were on the U.K. charts in June/July of 1978.

"Shame" debuted on the Billboard R&B chart on April 29th 1978, "Boogie Oogie Oogie" on May 13th 1978.

I Don't think the real difference between R&B-Disco and Euro-Disco was necessarily the tempo, during 1976/77 there were a lot of very fast and furious R&B-Disco tunes .. I'm particularly thinking of some of the Salsoul material from the likes of LOLEATTA HOLLOWAY, LOVE COMMITTEE etc. It was that style of music that took a back seat when "Shame" etc. came along. As you say, R&B-Disco always had more of a groove, with Euro-Disco it was that thud thud that was considered important .. I used to think it was made for people who couldn't dance well!!

And finally .. here is another one you seemed to have missed .. it reached #10 on the U.K. chart in the spring of 1976.

ISAAC HAYES - "Disco Connection"

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u0p6xO0JgH4

Fabulous tune .. this seems to be the L.P. version, the 45 was edited down to three and a half minutes.

Interesting that the person who posted it on youtube describes it as "Funk" ..:)

Roger

[paladin]

@ Soulster, I don't care what The Bee Gees said, they were one of the biggest disco acts period, that can't be denied and we all know imitation is the sincerest form of flattery, hence disco became even more popular after their string of incessant whiny songs. Hell I should have thrown Village People in the mix as well. :cool::cool::cool::cool:


Get Down by Gene Chandler was a superb disco record and a monster regional hit here in Chicago. I have the 12 inch and it has an infectious groove and Gene was really singing his azz off, although the nebulous Clinton/Collins references where at once comical and distracting, this record would blow up the dance floors. Marvin Gaye's "Got To Give it Up" in my opinion was another over blown & overwrought disco record that maintained a steady bass line and up tempo groove. I really didn't like the record when it came out, but there was no doubt that when at a party I was in the minority because Party goers [[ read dancers) flat out loved this record. I got so caught up in this thread that I simply forgot to post this record, I know Getting Ready has been mentioned but this is where disco started for me....but it wasn't called disco then......lol...... I say "Smokey" started it and thats my final answer.....ROTFLMAO........:cool::cool::cool::cool ::cool:.




http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sWt4Hz1KGcQ

[soulster]

Soulster

I'm surprised you can't remember "Get Down" by GENE CHANDLER. It was quite a big U.S. hit.
According to the Billboard/Joel Whitburn reference books it hit #3 R&B, debuting on 28th October 1978 and made #53 on the Billboard "Pop" listings.


OK, I listened to the Youtube link and NOW I remember it! Still it wasn't a big hit around here, despite it being #3 on the R&B chart. In 1878, my taste leaned more towards funk and jazz, and rock.


@ Soulster, I don't care what The Bee Gees said, they were one of the biggest disco acts period, that can't be denied and we all know imitation is the sincerest form of flattery, hence disco became even more popular after their string of incessant whiny songs. Hell I should have thrown Village People in the mix as well. :cool::cool::cool::cool:


I didn't say that they weren't huge. I said that their presence did not make a difference. Disco didn't need any rescuing.

[Jimi LaLumia]

you'll notice in my David Bowie post that I said white artist/ROCK artist; none of the others listed in response to my post were rock, and most people had no clue who Giorgio Moroder was until years later,thanks to the success of some Donna Summer hits; calling "Rock Me Gently" a DISCO record is really stretching the envelope, and I don't recognize that as anything resembling a disco record..

[texassoul]

Read an intersting piece yesterday relating to the "birth" of disco. Many sources credit "Soul Mokossa" [[1973) by Manu Dibango as being the "first disco song" but this article also speculated that the honors could go to The Temptations for "Law of the Land".

Has anyone else ever heard of this? Here it is, from YouTube. I definiately hear disco elements, and remember, this was 1973 as well.....


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xP71jnIy6Ek

Yes, I've heard it many times. It was a very popular song in the early discos. I think it was around 1972 or 1973. I don't know if it was THE first disco song, but it was one of the first, IMO.

[marv2]

Soulster

I'm surprised you can't remember "Get Down" by GENE CHANDLER. It was quite a big U.S. hit.
According to the Billboard/Joel Whitburn reference books it hit #3 R&B, debuting on 28th October 1978 and made #53 on the Billboard "Pop" listings.

In Britain "Get Down" made it to #11 when released her on 20th Century, debuting on 3rd Februaray 1979.

I've found the 7" version posted on YouTube, which is kind of groovy.
As far as I can see no one has posted the 12" version. I'm pretty sure I still have my 12" of it, but its filed away as I find it quite tedious nowadays.
.
"Get Down" .. GENE CHANDLER.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8fuP-HuiSe0

I'm very familiar with "Get Down" by JOE SIMON, full title "Get Down, Get Down [[Get On The Floor)" and bought it back in 1975 when Polydor released it in Britain. To me it was very in the "Disco" groove of the time .. especially with the opening reference to Kung-Fu Bumping .. two of the current dance crazes.
I also bought the similar styled follow up "Music In My Bones", another track that at the time I would have described as "Disco" or perhaps "Disco/Soul".

Neither "Get Down, Get Down" nor "Music In My Bones" by JOE SIMON were very big selling records in Britain. His only chart hit here was "Step By Step" a year or two earlier.

I find it interesting that you describe "Get Down, Get Down" by JOE SIMON as being "straight up R&B", whereas I regard it as "Disco/Soul"

Here is "Get Down, Get Down" by JOE SIMON, complete with an introduction that you should find interesting.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p6bHgd3BCgM

This difference in terminology does illustrate perfectly what I've been trying to say. Back in 1974/75/76 "up" dancefloor orientated R&B records were being referred to as "Disco" and this was long before the influx of Euro-Disco in 1977/78 and the obsession with 128 BPM thud thud thud music, sacharine strings and cooing female choruses. And it was also long before the "Fever" induced by "That" film.

You mention that the U.S. is very "schizoid" about "Disco" nowadays and I've noticed on this forum that some [[American) posters object to the term being used if it is associated with any of their favourites, there seems to be a tendancy to try to pretend that "Disco", as a musical style, only refers to the later "Euro" styled material in 1978/79. All this is very strange to me, it just seems to be a rewriting of history.

I'm being a bit pedantic here but with "Boogie Oogie Oogie" and "Shame", both these records actually came out in the Spring of 1978, not towards the end of the year. Both tunes were on the U.K. charts in June/July of 1978.

"Shame" debuted on the Billboard R&B chart on April 29th 1978, "Boogie Oogie Oogie" on May 13th 1978.

I Don't think the real difference between R&B-Disco and Euro-Disco was necessarily the tempo, during 1976/77 there were a lot of very fast and furious R&B-Disco tunes .. I'm particularly thinking of some of the Salsoul material from the likes of LOLEATTA HOLLOWAY, LOVE COMMITTEE etc. It was that style of music that took a back seat when "Shame" etc. came along. As you say, R&B-Disco always had more of a groove, with Euro-Disco it was that thud thud that was considered important .. I used to think it was made for people who couldn't dance well!!

And finally .. here is another one you seemed to have missed .. it reached #10 on the U.K. chart in the spring of 1976.

ISAAC HAYES - "Disco Connection"

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u0p6xO0JgH4

Fabulous tune .. this seems to be the L.P. version, the 45 was edited down to three and a half minutes.

Interesting that the person who posted it on youtube describes it as "Funk" ..:)

Roger

Oh "Get Down" by Gene Chandler was a VERY big hit in 1978! The radio edit, as well as the 12" extended version.

[marv2]

Yes, I've heard it many times. It was a very popular song in the early discos. I think it was around 1972 or 1973. I don't know if it was THE first disco song, but it was one of the first, IMO.


I can see why some people may consider this recording a "Disco" record. It has the a rhythm track very, very similar to Edwin Starr's 1978 Disco hit "Contact". But the horns and strings along with the lyrics kill that thought for me. This is pure driving soul music.

[daddyacey]

roger [[ "Get Down" by GENE CHANDLER. It was quite a big U.S. hit.)

Yes it was big here in the U.S. The only way you could get it here when it was first released was on 7 inch LP version. As it gained club and airplay a 12' extended 8:14 version mixed by Rick G. was released first as an import from Canada. The same applied to Edwin Starr's 1978 Disco hit "Contact",an import from the U.K.

ISAAC HAYES - "Disco Connection" ,was not as big here as his prior Dance classics ,JOY in 73 ,and BODY LANGUAGE and CHOCOLATE CHIP's in 75 , which were not presented as "Disco" records but were very FUNKY and popular in the clubs with very little if any airplay. JOY was his last recording on ENTERPRISE before it closed down and BODY LANGUAGE and CHOCOLATE CHIP's ,were on HBS/ ABC. Disco Connection was a result of those prior dancefloor classics as the word Disco had it's start in being a fad in late 75-76. [[IMO)

[roger]

roger [[ "Get Down" by GENE CHANDLER. It was quite a big U.S. hit.)

Yes it was big here in the U.S. The only way you could get it here when it was first released was on 7 inch LP version. As it gained club and airplay a 12' extended 8:14 version mixed by Rick G. was released first as an import from Canada. The same applied to Edwin Starr's 1978 Disco hit "Contact",an import from the U.K.

ISAAC HAYES - "Disco Connection" ,was not as big here as his prior Dance classics ,JOY in 73 ,and BODY LANGUAGE and CHOCOLATE CHIP's in 75 , which were not presented as "Disco" records but were very FUNKY and popular in the clubs with very little if any airplay. JOY was his last recording on ENTERPRISE before it closed down and BODY LANGUAGE and CHOCOLATE CHIP's ,were on HBS/ ABC. Disco Connection was a result of those prior dancefloor classics as the word Disco had it's start in being a fad in late 75-76. [[IMO)

As I recall the British 12 inch releases of "Get Down" and "Contact" both came out at the same time, and were both on the same label [[20th Century).

Back around 1978 there seemed to be a delay of 2 or 3 months between a record first appearing as a US import [[single or LP track) and any British release. On some occasions the British 12" release came a month or so after the British 7" release as the UK record companies tried to "hype" the record into the sales charts. I know that happened with "Boogie Oogie Oogie" as I bought the UK 7" then sold it onto a workmate a few weeks later when the "limited edition" 12" appeared in the shops.

I'd put the introduction of the term "Diisco", as a musical trend, into public consciousness slightly earlier than you Daddyacey.

In Britain "Blues and Soul" started to publish a "Disco Dozen" chart in August 1974, reflecting what was popular in some of the London clubs.

In the U.S. both "Record World" and "Billboard" had started to publish "Disco surveys" by the end of 1974.

The first #1 on Billboard's "Disco" survey was "Never Can Say Goodbye" by GLORIA GAYNOR, which I recall was introduced as a "Top New York Disco Record" or something similar when I first heard it played on British radio. "Never Can say Goodbye" debuted on the UK chart on 7th December 1974 .. maybe the DJ had been reading "Billboard"?

In January 1975 the "Never Can Say Goodbye" L.P. by GLORIA GAYNOR was released in the U.S. which would have to be the first L.P. where the tracks were specifically mixed and segueed for "Disco" play.

As far as I'm aware, the first commercially successful 45 that had an extended "Disco Mix" on the "B" side was "Express" by B.T.EXPRESS. At least my copy on UK Pye International did, I'm assuming the US release on Scepter was the same? "Express" debuted on the Bilboard R&B chart on 25th January 1975 and on the U.K. "Pop" chart on 29th March 1975.

"Express" wasn't too big a hit in Britain, only reaching #34, but on 24th May 1975 the first record [[ as far as I can work out ) that had "Disco" in the title debuted on the U.K. chart .. "Disco Stomp" by HAMILTON BOHANNON on the Brunswick label.

"Disco Stomp" was HUGE in Britain, getting to #6 on the sales charts, and seemed to be around all through the summer of 1975. Looking at the U.S. "Billboard" charts it debuted on the R&B charts on 27th September 1975 which suggests to me that Brunswick/Dakar released it as a single in the US on the back of its British success.

"Disco Stomp" wasn't too big a hit in the U.S. .. only reaching #62 R&B on the Billboard chart, so for those who are unfamiliar with it .. here it is in all its glory .....

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M3tuJ4qFmxY

The video with it seems to show images from the 1940s Big Band/Swing era BTW .. no one danced to it like that in 1975 Britain!!

Also, in July 1975 what I believe was the first L.P. of "Disco Mixes" was released in the U.S. .. "Disco Gold" on the Scepter label, which featured Tom Moulton remixes of a selection of Scepter/Wand dance favourites .. it debuted on the Billboard L.P. chart on 26th July 1975.

"Disco Gold" didn't get a UK release until the CD era, but I did manage to get a copy of the L.P. I was always fascinated by the geographical spread of the Clubs that got mentioned on the Gatefold Sleeve liner notes. As I recall about half of them were in the New York City/New Jersey area, with places like Philadelphia also being well represented, and also Los Angeles and San Francisco over in California.

I wish I still had that "Disco Gold" L.P. but it did seem to suggest to me that in mid 1975 the "Disco" fad was well entrenched on "The Coasts" but very patchy elsewhere. This might be the reason why different posters on the forum have different perspectives on when the term "Disco" actually started to refer to a type of music.

Roger

[daddyacey]

[["I'd put the introduction of the term "Disco", as a musical trend, into public consciousness slightly earlier than you Daddyacey.")
Oh no ,it was in the public conscious ,but not as wide spread media wise as it [[the term Disco and certain elements associated with it) became known in the later 70's. I still have both original "Disco Gold" L.P.'s.

[["Disco Stomp" wasn't too big a hit in the U.S. .. only reaching #62 R&B on the Billboard chart,)

I have to say that being an Afro American in the U.S. , those Billboard charts don't present a true overall picture in terms of popularity as opposed to sales among a certain segment of the population. Everybody may not have bought a copy of that record and you wouldn't have heard it much on the radio ,but everybody that went to the clubs or threw house parties and urban High School Dances knew the record. Notice I said "Club".

********I have to continue this post later later , after I get home from work.***************

[daddyacey]

[["As far as I'm aware, the first commercially successful 45 that had an extended "Disco Mix" on the "B" side was "Express" by B.T.EXPRESS. At least my copy on UK Pye International did, I'm assuming the US release on Scepter was the same? "Express" debuted on the Bilboard R&B chart on 25th January 1975 and on the U.K. "Pop" chart on 29th March 1975.")

Yes it was the same here. It came from the album "Do It Til You're Satisfied" ,released late in 74. That album ,SMOKED ,in both the "CLUBS" and on Black Radio. It included dance floor smokers ,That's What I Want For You Baby ,Do You Like It and the title track. Tom Moulton did the Disco Mix for Express. The second B.T. Express lp in 75 also smoked and had a track on it titled "Discotizer".

[["Express" wasn't too big a hit in Britain, only reaching #34, but on 24th May 1975 the first record [[ as far as I can work out ) that had "Disco" in the title debuted on the U.K. chart .. "Disco Stomp" by HAMILTON BOHANNON on the Brunswick label.)

Now "Disco Stomp" was preceded in 1974 by Bohannon's 7:00 track "South African Man" ,which is very similar to Disco Stomp and was a very popular dance club record in urban and Gay clubs. Also in 75 there was Van McCoy's , HUSTLE and two tracks on his production of Faith, Hope and Charity's first RCA album titled "Let's Go To The Disco" and "Disco Dan". Those tracks were just filler as far as I'm concerned because the main track on that album was "To Each His Own" ,which was remixed and extended on 12 inch and very much on the same order and style of HUSTLE. Now Van IMO created the first interpretation of the "Disco" sound and got away with it ,because he was a professional and a perfectionist. To this day ,The Hustle ,while you could call it campy Disco with the strings and the tempo and voices ,is a complex and multi layered piece of music ,when you truely listen and disect it. Kay-Gee is another example.
But back to pinpointing when the Disco designation started to become more popular and used more outside of the underground club scene and its R&B/Funk roots ,I have to agree with your observation that 75 was the turning point. Such that tracks played in CLUBS also then increasingly called Discotheques, popular before 75 were now being called pre-Disco. Tracks like......[[here we go!!!) ,First Choice ,"Guilty" and "The Player" [[74) , Fatback Band's ,Ninja Walk [[73), Going To See My Baby [[72), Do The Bus Stop [[75), Creative Source, the 11:45 Who Is He And What Is He To You [[73) , Corazon [[74) , New Birth's "Got To Get A Knutt" and "I Can Understand It [[72) , from the Birthday album which was out of print by 1976 and was fetching $50 on the collectors market ,such that F Byron Clark was able to pull those tracks for a "REMIX" album in 76 ,that was titled "New Birth DISCO".
"Jazz cut's such as EDDIE HARRIS , "LISTEN HERE" [[68) , Lee Morgan's ,"Sidewinder" [[50 somethin) ,Kool and The Gang, Funky Stuff [[73) ,Rhyme Time People [[74) , Hollywood Swinging [[73) ,Jungle Boogie [[73) , I could go on and on ,but yet all of those tracks were played and partied to prior to 75 ,in the same clubs that now in 75 are called Disco's ,and that was not so bad , until late 76 -77 , when IMO " Disco" took over R&B ,as the driving force behind the original Dance concept. Commercial stepped in , Disco this Disco that ,Disco clothes ,Ethel Merman doing Disco this ,Rod Stewart ,Yes ,Rolling Stones ,Disco Tex ,Disco Lucy, everybody and they mother on the Disco Bandwagon ,and R&B suffered for that. The same guys that brought you BT EXPRESS ,created Skyy ,Brass Construction. None of that shit is DISCO ,at least up to a certain point. Thats all down right Funky Dance music At least that's how I felt about it.

[soulster]

Technically, "The Express" was issued on The Roadshow label, distributed by Scepter. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eUwLt4KLKvg

[roger]

Technically, "The Express" was issued on The Roadshow label, distributed by Scepter. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eUwLt4KLKvg

Yes, you're quite correct Soulster. The funny thing is that I had it in the back of my mind that it was on Roadshow when I made my post, but my Pye International UK 7" actually has "A Scepter Records Inc, U.S.A. Recording" in the credits and I went along with that.

Another funny thing is that if anyone had asked me if "Do It If You're Satisfied" had charted in Britain I would have said yes .. however when I look in the reference books it never did .. funny that as it seemed to be around for ages. Incidentally my Pye International UK 7" of that does say "A Scepter U.S.A. Recording [[Roadshow)". That also had an elongated version on the "B" side.

"South African Man" by HAMILTON BOHANNON was also a very big record here Daddyacey .. even got to #22 on the UK chart, debuting on 15th February 1975. I see that it was in the U.S. R&B listings in November 1974 so obviously that one followed the normal pattern of getting a US release first.

One big thing to consider with Britain in 1974/75 is that it marked the appearance of the first legal Commercial Radio Stations here. Previously the BBC had a legal monopoly. In general the new stations were more receptive to Soul/R&B than the BBC and played a lot of the new Soul/Disco releases as a means of distinguishing themselves from BBC Radio 1.

When "Rock Your Baby" by GEORGE McRAE hit the British #1 in July 1974 it was the first Soul/R&B record to top the chart since late 1971 when "I'm Still Waiting" by DIANA ROSS and a reissue of "Hey Girl Don't Bother Me" by THE TAMS both hit the top spot. "Rock Your Baby" was swiftly followed at #1 by THE THREE DEGREES with "When Will I See You Again" and later in the year by BARRY WHITE with "You're the First, My Last, My Everything". There were also home grown Soul/R&B #1 hits from CARL DOUGLAS - "Kung Fu Fighting" and SWEET SENSATION - "Sad Sweet Dreamer" which seemed to confirm the new trend.

In the 1972/73 period the UK best selling singles lists had been dominated by "Glitter Rock" [[SWEET, MUD GARRY GLITTER, T-REX etc.) ,and pure "Pop" by acts such as THE OSMONDS. Though one British #1 that might be of interest to anyone who has read through this thread was the #1 record in February 1972 by CHICKORY TIP .. it was the British cover version of Georgio Moroder's "Son of my Father", the chorus of which has truly sunk into public conciousness here as it has become the basis of a thousand chants at football matches .. and I bet that very few football followers actually know where it comes from .. :)

Roger

[marybrewster]

One of the BEST threads and reads on SDF in a LONG time. Thanks all for your wonderful, detailed information. I have learned A LOT from all of you scholars!

[marv2]

[["I'd put the introduction of the term "Disco", as a musical trend, into public consciousness slightly earlier than you Daddyacey.")
Oh no ,it was in the public conscious ,but not as wide spread media wise as it [[the term Disco and certain elements associated with it) became known in the later 70's. I still have both original "Disco Gold" L.P.'s.

[["Disco Stomp" wasn't too big a hit in the U.S. .. only reaching #62 R&B on the Billboard chart,)

I have to say that being an Afro American in the U.S. , those Billboard charts don't present a true overall picture in terms of popularity as opposed to sales among a certain segment of the population. Everybody may not have bought a copy of that record and you wouldn't have heard it much on the radio ,but everybody that went to the clubs or threw house parties and urban High School Dances knew the record. Notice I said "Club".

********I have to continue this post later later , after I get home from work.***************

Daddy your comment reminded me of a record by Morris Jefferson called "Spank Your Blank, Blank". I don't think it charted all that well, but I heard it a lot at parties, school dances and in clubs Winter 77-78.