Diana Ross fan Question

[JohnnyB]

I've read on this site and on others that most fans were disappointed in Diana's RCA output by comparison with the Motown Years. I would like to compile an RCA best-of collection and would like the input of fans. Which song performances do you consider to be the cream of the RCA crop?

[longtimefan]

This should help...

http://itunes.apple.com/us/album/diana-ross-greatest-hits-the/id268456114

[kenneth]

This should help...

http://itunes.apple.com/us/album/diana-ross-greatest-hits-the/id268456114

Interesting writeup in the link. I have only the most superficial knowledge of Ross' RCA work. She no longer was interesting to me by that time. But what is the '91 smash referred to in this excerpt:

"..but, by 1991, nearly a decade after signing with RCA, she would create a global smash and regain her commercial footage while incorporating all that she learned during the 80s."

Help me out..

[JohnnyB]

That must be When You Tell Me That You Love Me, which was a huge UK hit in 1991 although it was not successful in the US. This song is from Diana's second LP after returning to Motown.

[soulster]

Although RCA has already released a Ross RCA comp many, many years ago. However, I saw fit to create my own CD-R comp, which includes more of her singles and isn't so ballad-weary:

Chain Reaction [[Single Version)
Muscles [[LP version)
Work That Body
It's Never Too Late
Missing You
Eaten Alive
Selfish One
So Close [[Single Version)
Dirty Looks
Touch By Touch
Who
Pieces Of Ice [[Single Version)
Let's Go Up
Mirror Mirror [[Single Version)
Love Will Make It Right
Swept Away [[Single Version)
Why Do Fools Fall In Love
Telephone
Shine
Cross My Heart

[jobeterob]

One of the best Diana Ross songs of all time came from the RCA Years.......Summertime.

[longtimefan]

Soulster mentioned "Let's Go Up." Here's a rare live performance of that song.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KqZLNYV2sqU&feature=related


p.s. Jobeterob ... You "stole" my vote .... :-) "Summertime" is Diana's top RCA performance.

[David Ybarra]

Have to agree with Jobeterob and Longtimefan: "Summertime" is stunning and is truly a classic. But it wouldn't be my Number 1 vote [[close second though). My number one vote would have to go to "I Am Me" from Silk Electric. Always been my very favorite. Just a perfect pop piece that smolders with her vocals: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LnaontbUZXM

[jobeterob]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BLzFz5_ruXs

[soulster]

My number one vote would have to go to "I Am Me" from Silk Electric. Always been my very favorite. Just a perfect pop piece that smolders with her vocals:

And I think that is her worst after "Fool For Your Love", also from "Silk Electric".

Yeah, I probably should redo the set and include "Summertime". I should also include "Sweet Surrender".

[jobeterob]

Diana's RCA Years were just as good as her Motown years; the real issue is that she was getting older and you get into your 40's and you don't have hit after hit after hit anymore. It is no different these days. And that is read by many as "the RCA years were not as good, not as successful etc". Well it depends how you measure.

[Koach]

The RCA songs are my favorite from her, actually. I'd like to see the single versions on CD, as well as a lost-and-found one with unreleased tracks.

[David Ybarra]

And I think that is her worst after "Fool For Your Love", also from "Silk Electric".

I always thought "Fool For Your Love" was experimental and cool considering it was such a departure from her repertoire before or since. She was defying the expectation and I respect her challenging the boundaries of her creative identity at this stage in her career. Listening to it today, "Fool For Your Love" actually holds up shockingly well as a strongly produced and passionately performed rock cut from the early 1980s. No, it doesn't sound like your typical "Diana Ross" song, but maybe it wasn't supposed to. It's still an interesting twist in her discography. I like it -- and I like "Sweet Surrender" and many of the songs on your list.

[soulster]

Diana's RCA Years were just as good as her Motown years; the real issue is that she was getting older and you get into your 40's and you don't have hit after hit after hit anymore. It is no different these days. And that is read by many as "the RCA years were not as good, not as successful etc". Well it depends how you measure.

Don't tell that to Paul McCartney, Barbra Streisand, George Harrison, The Bar-Kays, or Rod Stewart, or many other artists I can't think of right now.

[soulster]

The RCA songs are my favorite from her, actually. I'd like to see the single versions on CD, as well as a lost-and-found one with unreleased tracks.

Some of the single versions are on CD.

[soulster]

I always thought "Fool For Your Love" was experimental and cool considering it was such a departure from her repertoire before or since. She was defying the expectation and I respect her challenging the boundaries of her creative identity at this stage in her career. Listening to it today, "Fool For Your Love" actually holds up shockingly well as a strongly produced and passionately performed rock cut from the early 1980s. No, it doesn't sound like your typical "Diana Ross" song, but maybe it wasn't supposed to. It's still an interesting twist in her discography.

Sorry, she just doesn't have a "rock" voice.

[rovereab]

IMO something like a "RCA box set" is overdue. For me there are some excellent recordings from that era and as mentioned about Summertime is outstanding.

Hopefully there are some unreleased songs too which I am sure would make the "box" a must have for DR fans.

[smark21]

Summertime, Who, Missing You, and Turn Me Over are a few of my favorites from that era. But I think a lot of her 80's recordings have aged poorly in comparison to her 60's and 70's output due to the production and instrumentation on some of the songs.

[TMSG]

Always thought 'In Your Arms' from the Silk Electric album was Diana's best RCA song. The vocals on this are supurb, especially the vocal overdubs. Don't know why this was never released as a single, possibly because Whitney Houston released it on her debut album under the title 'Hold Me'. I think the Diana's version was recorded first. Can anyone confirm this?

[JohnnyB]

You are correct; Diana recorded In Your Arms in 1982. The Whitney Houston/Teddy Pendergrass Hold Me duet was recorded in 1984.

[randy_russi]

"Experience" and "Summertime" are good too.

[RossHolloway]

I've always liked her solo version of Endless Love, she really pours her heart into that song. I wish she would do it in her concerts.

[redlabs]

CRIMES OF PASSION from Eatin Alive along with MORE AND MORE. SWEPT AWAY, FIGHT FOR IT,NOBODY DRIVES ME CRAZY LIKE YOU DO, TELEPHONE.

[thommg]

One of the best Diana Ross songs of all time came from the RCA Years.......Summertime.

jobetrob, we agree on something! I think this song is exquisite. It is right up there with All The Befores from the Surrender album for me. I also like I'm Watching You and Don't Give Up On Each Other, both from the Eaten Alive cd.

[marybrewster]

I don't know a lot of Diana's work [[other than the obvious "hits") from her RCA years. It's interesting to her that Diana recorded "In Your Arms" or "Hold Me" before Whitney did. Does anyone know, was this recorded by someone before Diana? Or was this written especially for her?

I have ofetn wondered why there hasn't been a lush set celebrating her RCA years. For the amount of money that Diana was offered to leave Motown, you'd think RCA would by now have released something grand on her.

Not that it really matters, but another thing: wasn't Diana given 40 million to move to RCA? Was this a good investment? Did RCA make money off the deal?

[soulster]

Summertime, Who, Missing You, and Turn Me Over are a few of my favorites from that era. But I think a lot of her 80's recordings have aged poorly in comparison to her 60's and 70's output due to the production and instrumentation on some of the songs.

"Turn Me Over"???? Gawd! I edited out the part where she says it and just left the music. It's the stupidest thing I ever heard. IMO, of course. It's a prime example of what I meant when I said that Ross had a tendency to be over self-indulgent.

[soulster]

Always thought 'In Your Arms' from the Silk Electric album was Diana's best RCA song. The vocals on this are supurb, especially the vocal overdubs. Don't know why this was never released as a single, possibly because Whitney Houston released it on her debut album under the title 'Hold Me'. I think the Diana's version was recorded first. Can anyone confirm this?

Exactly. DR's version was first, so your reasoning is not valid. "Silk Electric" came out in 1982, and Whitney's album came out in '85. And, I do think Ross's original is superior.

[thommg]

Does RCA have rights to Diana's masters from that period? It seems that everything was done through Ross Records. Perhaps Diana holds the tapes and that's why we haven't seen anything more than the Greatest Hits cd.

[soulster]

Does RCA have rights to Diana's masters from that period? It seems that everything was done through Ross Records. Perhaps Diana holds the tapes and that's why we haven't seen anything more than the Greatest Hits cd.

I'm certain that Sony/BMG owns the rights to the recordings.

[jobeterob]

RCA paid Ross a $20 million advance to sign; they were fools; they signed too many aging artists at the same time....for example, Kenny Rogers.

It was great for her; I heard part of the money went into parking lots in NYC which have poured out buckets of money for years.

You'd have to ask RCA if they made money and of course, they wouldn't say; I suspect they did make money over time but it's put out there by people that "suspect", that RCA didn't. Who knows. It is also put out there that Motown didn't make a lot of money off of a lot of their artists but they still seem to be selling a few CDS by some of their minor artists even......for example, Marvelettes, Contours, Vandellas, Allstars, Mary Wells.

[soulster]

RCA paid Ross a $20 million advance to sign; they were fools; they signed too many aging artists at the same time....for example, Kenny Rogers.



But, that's the way the business was back then, and continued to be for a couple of more decades after that.

[kenneth]

But, that's the way the business was back then, and continued to be for a couple of more decades after that.

So true...there was a cruel joke back then that 'MCA' stood for 'Musical Cemetery of America."

[dickiemint]

When you say about Diana Ross RCA years then returning to Motown in 1991, in the UK she was on EMI, who she stayed with until the I Love You cd. Ross toured the UK when she released Swept Away, and those songs have remained favorites of mine from that time span, Touch by Touch, Missing You, although these songs only scraped the UK charts.
I also liked Red Hot Rhythm and Blues album Its hard for me to say and tell me again, but again no chart hits, Dirty looks just missed the UK top 40.

[skooldem1]

Muscles
Love Lies
Anywhere you run to
That's how you start over
Missing You
I'm watching you
Summertime
Selfish one
It's hard for me to say

[thaperson]

They weren't fools for paying her that much. She just came off the best year of her career. DIANA was selling like hot cakes around the world, she had three top ten hits [[with a fifth solo number one), and she was just about to release the megahit-duet of her career.

She was VERY hot, and could ask for whatever she wanted. Timing is everything, and the timing of the deal could not have been better.

Motown were fools for not offering her a better deal. Not that I think she would have stayed there, but the offer was apparently so low that it wasn't even a thought that she would reconsider.

[kenneth]

They weren't fools for paying her that much. She just came off the best year of her career. DIANA was selling like hot cakes around the world, she had three top ten hits [[with a fifth solo number one), and she was just about to release the megahit-duet of her career.

She was VERY hot, and could ask for whatever she wanted. Timing is everything, and the timing of the deal could not have been better.

Motown were fools for not offering her a better deal. Not that I think she would have stayed there, but the offer was apparently so low that it wasn't even a thought that she would reconsider.

Apparently many of you like her RCA output, but in a way it's similar to when James Brown left King Records to go to Polydor for huge money. His work truly suffered, it wasn't as good, he remained popular and a great entertainer up until his death, but his recordings got less and less commercial. The unique insight that the smaller company brought to his process couldn't be matched by the huge conglomerate. Maybe that's not exactly what happened with Ross, though I am unfamiliar with her RCA recordings, but certainly they weren't that popular and don't seem to be held in high regard except by hard core fans. Okay, shoot me, but that's my opinion.

[ladonna]

"Turn Me Over"???? Gawd! I edited out the part where she says it and just left the music. It's the stupidest thing I ever heard. IMO, of course. It's a prime example of what I meant when I said that Ross had a tendency to be over self-indulgent.




One would need to possess a sense of humor to catch the irreverence of "Turn Me Over". Additionally, the lyrics were rife with sexual innuendo.

[ladonna]

Of all the tunes mentioned here, let's not forget "You Do It", "Love or Loneliness", and "Upfront." UF was another rock-inspired tune despite her not having a "rock" voice, and one that worked. For the record, I enjoyed "Fool For Your Love" for all the reasons that others have mentioned. It was a fun aspect of her live performances from those days, as well.

The years at Motown were creatively magical and trendsetting; the years at RCA were more contrived, and an attempt to remain current and relevant; that's the difference.

[smark21]

One would need to possess a sense of humor to catch the irreverence of "Turn Me Over". Additionally, the lyrics were rife with sexual innuendo.

Exactly. In all seriousness it's not one of my faves, but I don't dislike it either. If nothing else, the song showed that Diana Ross has a sense of humor. Though the song works better in LP or cassette format than on a CD or as an MP3 file.

[smark21]

Of her RCA albums, I think Ross from 1983 is her best. May not have been the most commercial collection of songs, but she showed a range and some dashes of experimentation. Even Pieces of Ice, as nonsensical as the lyrics are, cooks.

[skooldem1]

At the time I thought it was kind of cool. Its like the thing Janet and other singers use today on their CD's, between tracks. I agree that the songs purpose is lost in the CD/ digital file era.

[Jimi LaLumia]

I'm a huge Ross fan, stated that here many times, but...
The RCA output was DREADFUL..in plain english...dreadful!

[ladonna]

Of her RCA albums, I think Ross from 1983 is her best. May not have been the most commercial collection of songs, but she showed a range and some dashes of experimentation. Even Pieces of Ice, as nonsensical as the lyrics are, cooks.



Agreed. Had "83" taken off, it could have set the tone for her sound and direction for that decade. Of all of her releases, "83" contains some of the magical creativity from her Motown days, and certainly was more cohesive than "Silk Electric"

[JohnnyB]

The responses to this forum have been very interesting. Of the 59 songs Diana released during her RCA tenure [[60 if Turn Me Over is counted), 44 have been mentioned with only 1 consistent nod--Summertime appears to be the favorite!

[honest man]

STILL IN LOVE ,EXPERIENCE,SO CLOSE,PIECES OF ICE,Got to say im really not into her 80s but.....i'd say WDF album was the best she could do,really some good songs on that album, but i have forgotten them, cheers.

[soulster]

So true...there was a cruel joke back then that 'MCA' stood for 'Musical Cemetery of America."

Well, I was talking about the outrageou$ record deal$. But, in the late 70s, MCA didn't do that bad.They did have Elton John, Olivia Newton-John, Steely Dan, Spyro Gyra, The Crusaders, and Rufus and Chaka on their roster, even though they were mostly interested in country music. That changed somewhat when they bought ABC Records in 1978.

[soulster]

One would need to possess a sense of humor to catch the irreverence of "Turn Me Over". Additionally, the lyrics were rife with sexual innuendo.

I got that, but it still sounds stupid.


Of all the tunes mentioned here, let's not forget "You Do It", "Love or Loneliness", and "Upfront." .

I did mention a couple of those songs. My list concentrated on singles, though.

"Up Front" works for her because, even though it's rock, it's in a laid-back way, which was Ray Parker Jr's style. He did everything but sing on that song and "Love or Loneliness" because they were probably going to be on his next album. All he had to do was bring in the backing tracks and her sing over them. He even recorded them in his own studio.

[tomato tom]

I thought, personaly that much of Diana's work for R.C.A. was below par. If only for the fact that her Motown work was far superior to these ears. I was expecting much when she signed to R.C.A., but was sadly disappointed. There were some bright spots of course, like Missing You, Chain Reaction, but some songs like swept away, I find I cant listen to. Just my own view..Paulo xxx

[reese]

RCA faves of mine:

Mirror, Mirror
Think I'm In Love
Fool For Your Love
Let's Go Up
Love Or Loneliness
Missing You
Touch By Touch
Telephone
Forever Young
Experience
Chain Reaction
Dirty Looks
Summertime
Cross My Heart
It's Hard For Me To Say
Shockwaves

[thaperson]

though I am unfamiliar with her RCA recordings, but certainly they weren't that popular and don't seem to be held in high regard.

I like some of her output, while some is a little overindulgent. I was just saying in terms of RCA offering her such a big amount of money, that it wasn't such a crazy idea at the time. Perhaps in hindsight, but at the time there were many reasons why they offered her the huge amount they did.

Not popular? That's debatable. I'd say "Fools", "Mirror", "Chain Reaction" and "Missing You" stand with the best of her Motown work, and still go over well in concerts. "Missing You" is one of her finest vocal performances, period.

Frankly, her second Motown tenure [[though it produced some great work) is the period that seems to be completely forgotten, at least in the States.

[Jimi LaLumia]

by the way,"Summertime" IS fabulous..should have been a single...

[REDHOT]

I agree,SUMMERTIME is DIANA'S best work at RCA.[[to me)
Please stay positive

[soulster]

But "Mirror Mirror" jammed! When I first heard the song, I was shocked! I didn't think Ross had it in her!

[uptight]

"Mirror Mirror" is a smoker! It has elements of rock, funk and soul.

[luke]

Diana no longer with EMI?

[soulster]

Diana no longer with EMI?

Depends on what country you're talking about. Her contract for the domestic [[U.S.) product was with RCA. Her worldwide contract was with EMI-Toshiba. Now that Bertlesman and Sony have combined, any new domestic releases would be on Sony/BMG Legacy. I do not know if her worldwide contract with EMI still stands, although I would think that would go to Sony as well.

Her Motown material is still with Universal.

[jobeterob]

And her new material, at least domestically [[or worldwide??) is with Manhattan?

It almost doesn't matter because all these old time artists was pretty much contractless like Aretha and Diana. Their day as CD sellers are pretty much over. As icons, they are forever.