NO MATTER WHAT SIGN YOU ARE-Diana Ross & The Supremes

[BayouMotownMan]

There has been some talk of this release on other threads, but I wanted to share my observations on the Supremes 1969 single releases...and what happened.

The Composer immediately followed I'm Livin' In Shame. I never liked this song, it just was too fluffy. The only reason I can think of Motown releasing this lame track after such pitch-hitters as Love Child, Livin' In Shame and I'm Gonna Make You Love Me was because Smokey had produced it and Smokey was hot again with Baby, Baby Don't Cry. Despite my feelings, The Composer got off to an impressive chart showing, debuting in the Top 60 and zooming into the Top 30 in only a few weeks. It clearly would have made the Top 20...until Gordy made some irrational decisions.

Gordy recorded No Matter What Sign You Are on the heels of the wildly successful 5th Dimension Aquarius/Let The Sunshine In. Although the instrumental track is excellent, the lyrics are ludicrous and Ross's attempts at imitating James Brown [[aaww) were downright funny. Despite this, Gordy pulled The Composer and No Matter What debuted also in the Top 60, but soon started limping as radio programmers and listeners soon laughed this song off as a "Hair" rip-off. Motown had always been a trend-setter; now they were imitating others.

Gordy expected stellar results from this song, even giving the accompanying lp the same name. When the song tanked, Motown quickly re-named the lp "Let The Sunshine In." This lp also did poorly. This all delayed Diana's departure even further. It was panic time in Hitsville as Gordy ranted and raved to his production team that he needed a No. 1 on the Supremes before pulling Diana out, as his adviser's had instructed. Another single with the Temptations, a rather bland "The Weight" didn't help matters. In order to buy time, the company even released the flip side, "The Young Folks" which did the worst chart showing on the group since 1963.

Johnny Bristol saved the day when he recorded Someday We'll Be Together and presented it to Quality Control. It was perfect for the occasion...the breaking up of Diana Ross and the Supremes. Gordy ordered it released and put a big budget on its promotion. As it soared up the charts, and after the airing of "GIT On Broadway" it was announced that Diana was leaving.

In hindsight, if Gordy had waited, The Composer likely would have been a much bigger hit than he allowed it to be. It's chart progress was excellent. To have held back the release of No Matter until The Composer completed its chart run would have been the smarter thing to do.

[ladonna]

I just don't feel that The Composer had the goods to reach number one; the material was a little better than mediocre at best.

[Glenpwood]

The Composer is a nice enough song but its has no peaks or depth to it. Just kinda glides along with no solid hooks so it doesnt really stick to the ear. It's a nice album cut that should've been just that. If they were gonna put a Smokey cut out Sweet Thing would've been a better choice. Yet that went into the can for 18 years. No Matter What Sign You Are is the better of the two but again feels underwritten. Diana owwwing while the Andantes read the Astrological chart is not exactly top drawer poetry but the label was under intense pressure to have a new single ready every 13 weeks for all its acts so sometimes they just went with the "Cream Of The [[Current) Crop" so to speak......

[BayouMotownMan]

I agree Glen, but based on it's chart history, I think The Composer could have peaked in the Top 20, around 18 or so. A big enough hit to keep the group red hot. As it were, pulling it and throwing out No Matter, Young Folks and The Weight put Diana Ross and the Supremes in the chart cellar

[theboyfromxtown]

Even with its dedicated Motown fanbase in the UK, neither "The Weight" nor "The Composer" gained a 45 release in the UK.

[psychedelic jacques]

Interesting reading, Bayou. Over the years I've read a lot of threads on these boards where the general consensus seems to be that both 'Composer' and 'Sign' were a couple of duffers, and I want to try to redress this balance a bit. So here are my thoughts...

I disagree that Composer was just average album fodder with no hooks - it had that interesting middle section [[I don't know the technical term) - the "like a rahpsody, a symphony" part, building to the mini climax of "you put a song in my heart". It also had a driving, catchy chorus, and those cute "hah, hahs" - all in all I think it was as strong a pop-soul siong as any of its type from 1969. Bear in mind my UK perspective - I never even heard it until I bought the 'Big Hits volume 8' lp round about 1970, and was blown away by the fact that a song as strong as this hadn't even been released as a single over here - I thought it was a huge missed opportunity.

'Sign' just broke the UK top 30, whilst the 5th D's 'Aquarius' just stopped short of the top 10. Yes, the lyrics aren't great, but I did think it was actually surprisingly soulful for Diana - I don't mean the owwwws, where she sounds like an Andante just trod on her foot, but the final chorus and ad-libs, especially as she builds towards "yes you are, hold me tight, aaah hold me, hold me" etc. 1969 was a strange year for Motown in the UK - re-releases from the mid-60s were riding high in the charts, which caused havoc with the release schedules, resulting in singles being released months after they'd hit in the US, or not at all [a digressionary example of this was that it was wonderful to see 'Tracks of My Tears' hit the UK top 10 four years on, but at the expense of the sublime 'Doggone Right' not even getting a release.] Indeed, the Supremes were one of the few artists who were not having old singles re-released, and perhaps it was partly due to this that 'Sign' sounded fresher and more "now" to my [[very young) ears at the time.

And I know i've said this before, but I really think that both Composer and Sign ran rings around "Someday", with its dreary lyrics and pedestrian delivery. For me, it seemed like a damp squib to end on, even verging on the cynical in terms of its "message", partly hinting at Loved Ones Far Away in 1969, and partly whimsically suggesting that the gals themselves might reunite sometime - a rather tasteless sentiment in the light that neither Mary nor Cindy were even singing on the record, and with the hindsight of the knowledge that neither Berry or Diana had any intention of them ever "being together" again.

So let's hear it for Composer and Sign - two geat late 60s pop-soul songs, IMO.

[nabob]

I know i've said this before, but I really think that both Composer and Sign ran rings around "Someday", with its dreary lyrics and pedestrian delivery.Comments like this always bring a smile to my face when I realize that such divergent tastes are displayed from the two sides of the Atlantic. This is not to imply that there is anything wrong or out of place with the opinion expressed.

The Composer is usually overlooked when making a Supremes' compilation. It never resonated with me. On the other hand, I grew into No Matter What Sign after more than 30 years and look at it as a good piece of music and an equally good performance that has stood the test of time. For me, Someday has always been a great piece of music with consummate arranging and mixing and a soul-felt performance. There is a story in the song that is missing from the two prior releases and that story has nothing to do with the Supremes. Jackie Beavers and Johnny Bristol wrote and performed the original in 1961, long before the Supremes hit their stride.

[psychedelic jacques]

not to worry, Nabob - I know i'm out on a long limb on this one - it's not even a UK/US thing, as Someday was huge over here, whilst Sign just made the 30, and Composer wasn't deemed worth a release. As you say, it all just comes down to taste, and i've always been a supporter of the underdog - even underdog songs.

[jillfoster]

I think of ALL those songs, "The Young Folks" was the best of the bunch. I thought it should have done better than it did.

[bradsupremes]

I never understood who was in charge of what songs should be singles on the Supremes in the late 60's. "The Weight" is an amazing song by the Band, but it's no more than an album filler with the Supremes & Temptations. Motown should have released "Why [[Must We Fall In Love)" instead as a single. I know it was released in the UK, but I think it could have been a hit here in the US if released. "The Composer" has never done anything for me as I find it a truly dull song, no matter who sings it. "No Matter What Sign You Are" has an incredible instrumental track, but the lyrics are plain silly. Who gave these songs the greenlight? Why didn't Motown release "You Gave Me Love" instead? Personally, I think that song had A-side potential and deserved to be more than just an album filler. Even though the Andantes are on it, they attempt to sound like Mary and Cindy. The other song that I felt should have been released as a single was "Stormy." I know it was a cover, but it's one of the best recordings by the group from the late 60's. Diana gives, in my opinion, one of the best vocal performances from her Supremes days and Mary & Cindy are actually on the recording. People may disagree with me, but "Stormy" runs circles around "The Composer" and "No Matter What Sign You Are." "I'll Set You Free" and "How Long Has That Evening Train Been Gone" are other songs that could have been singles, yet were ignored because of politics and mediocre tunes.

[redlabs]

i like NO MATTER WHAT SIGN YOU ARE but ,THE COMPOSER, was a bit [MOR]. the lyrics were ok but it seems to me they made it too pop! if it had been more soulful,maybe it would have done better.
i just would have given the song a better mix. i also agree that the two songs were released to closely together and it didnt give the songs a chance to breath. also ,the Supremes never performed COMPOSER on any tv shows. with a bit more exposure it may have done better.
never cared for the SUNSHINE lp for the same reasons.to pop sounding and why name a supremes lp after a 5th D hit???????? even if the song tanked. who ok'd that ?
if they ever reissue SUNSHINE lp i hope they rename it with the original title.

[rovereab]

Even with its dedicated Motown fanbase in the UK, neither "The Weight" nor "The Composer" gained a 45 release in the UK.

For very good reasons IMO John. However, we did get Why [[Must We Fall In Love) which was a great performance by the two groups.

Eamonn

[theboyfromxtown]

In point of fact, my statement wasn't entirely true...TMG 999 had "Take Me Where You Go" backed with "The Composer"...released about 1979

[mistercarter2u]

I personally loved both THE COMPOSER and NO MATTER WHAT SIGN YOU ARE. I never understood why both missed becoming really big hits. I had never considered that Gordy pulled the plug on THE COMPOSER, if that is what happened. That's sad. Both songs had much more chart potential than they were afforded....

[arrr&bee]

Good post,i like[the composer]while it's not the best supremes song it's not bad either it just sorta sits there with a kind of cuteness to it,and the funny thing about this song to me is that it sounds like something they would've done in the early sixties,as for[no matter what sign]i just think that berry wanted the girls to jump into the astriological waters that was popular at that time.

[144man]

I strongly disagree that the lyrics to "No Matter What Sign You Are" are silly.

It is a protest against the unhealthy obsession with astrology that was prevalent at the time. It carries a message of hope that the future is not ordained in the stars, but that you can take control of your own destiny. It is the age-old philosophical debate of Free Will versus Predestination encapsulated in a three minute pop record.

[uptight]

I liked both songs. "No Matter What Sign" was written tongue in cheek about the astrological charts and l'amor. You wouldn't take the lyric seriously, but the record was very listenable and kinda groovy, IMO. The poor stereo mix on the LP didn't help it, but the single was ok. By the time I discovered either of these tracks, Ross had long left the group. The timing of the Supremes' release so close to the Fifth Dimension's "Aquarius" single couldn't have been too controversial, since a lot of people were already discussing astrology as it relates to personal compatibility in relationships. It was the "in thing."

I thought "Composer" was about as clever as any Smokey Robinson song. It is more R&B than The Miracles' version [[which I like too) and a bit groovier than "No Matter..." "Too pop" doesn't mean it's a bad song.

[Ramone Verona]

So true, Uptight.
I laugh when folks take these lyrics seriously and thought the girls were trying to deliver some "message" into their lives!
Ha Ha!
Dance, folks. Dance!

[144man]

I always take Supremes lyrics seriously.

The deep philosophy behind "Love is like an itching in my heart and baby I can't scratch it" changed my life forever.

[westgrandboulevard]

144man

Me too!

I find "Ooooooooo...." lifted me onto an altogether higher level.

[144man]

westgrandboulevard

And I'm going to go out in a few minutes to see if I can find out where my love went to!

[Ramone Verona]

Now that you talk about it, "up the" did it for me!

[ExGuyParis]

psychedelic Jacques: I’m completely with you on The Composer. It grabs me right from the start, with its opening stereo percussion, glissando, and the strings that jump in and embrace me. The funky guitar dives in to contrast with the strings. I love the “clap on time” [[when they show us they can, in a syncopated style). The strings and wah-wah guitar play surprising well together. Harmonies: sweet! The next musical lesson, “four to the bar” [[“Hey! Hey! Hey! Hey!”), makes me grin every time.

The change in key and mood – “Life’s a tender song; it’s like a rhapsody, a symphony...” – is surprising and intriguing. With the return to the opening theme and key, Diana sings in an amazingly sweet voice, and the harmonies are heavenly. The piano plays elegantly, and the bass guitar shines. The violin riffs at the end are awesome.

This is one of those songs I listen to over and over, focusing each time on one component—the bass, the strings, the piano, the harmonies, the xylophone [[or chimes?)...and then listen again to appreciate how masterfully they are all woven together.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a5xoT05NMpo

[brothadc]

Hi Exguy. I'm afraid you have an incorrect lyric. It's actually "Now it's a tender song...". I love the way you described the song though, I always loved it too.

[RossHolloway]

I also think that the Composer is an underappreciated song much like Nothin But Heartache. Diana's delivery on The Composer is actually quite sweet. I wonder if there are any live concert versions floating around out there.

[robbert]

Anyone knows if DRATS ever performed The Composer in live shows?

[robbert]

Did DRATS perform The Composer live - ever?

[Jimi LaLumia]

by this point they were doing supper clubs,and the 'singles' were treated as an after thought: even as a teenager back then, not knowing the business, I could feel the vibe in the air that concern for the success of these singles wasn't as intense as in the glory days of 64/65/66..

[johnjeb]

Anyone knows if DRATS ever performed The Composer in live shows?

I saw DRATS several times in 1969 and they did not sing either the Composer or Sign.

By this time I was familiar with seeing them perform and yet not including their latest releases. I've posted in detail in previous threads on this topic.

In Feb 66 they did not perform World and in Spring of 68 Forever was not included, much to my surprise in both instances. I think they did Where when I saw them in Feb 66, but I'm not sure. Can't even remember if I've ever seen them do Nothing or Itching.

Even when they performed on college campuses they stuck to their regular supper club routines as heard on their LIVE albums. I would have thought that they would have done more of their own song catalog and hits when they played to a predominantly teenage audience.

At least I got to hear You're Nobody Til Somebody Loves You all 10 times that I saw them!!!!!!!!!! [[Actually not sure if that's true but more than likely.)

[144man]

I saw DRATS several times in 1969 and they did not sing either the Composer or Sign.

By this time I was familiar with seeing them perform and yet not including their latest releases. I've posted in detail in previous threads on this topic.

In Feb 66 they did not perform World and in Spring of 68 Forever was not included, much to my surprise in both instances. I think they did Where when I saw them in Feb 66, but I'm not sure. Can't even remember if I've ever seen them do Nothing or Itching.

Even when they performed on college campuses they stuck to their regular supper club routines as heard on their LIVE albums. I would have thought that they would have done more of their own song catalog and hits when they played to a predominantly teenage audience.

At least I got to hear You're Nobody Til Somebody Loves You all 10 times that I saw them!!!!!!!!!! [[Actually not sure if that's true but more than likely.)

... And that was why DRATS were my least favorite Motown group LIVE. I didn't want to hear standards and show-tunes.
I wanted to hear their Motown hits, and I wanted to hear them separately, not performed in a medley at breakneck speed as if they wanted to get them out of the way as quickly as possible.

[motony]

"No Matter....was one of the few DRAS 45's I bought, loved the track.I thought Berry Gordy & Hank Cosby made a great record and I think Diana did an outstanding vocal.

[thaperson]

Berry had all the acts doing the supper club routine. That was his way of making sure they weren't just a "Black" act so to speak. He wanted everyone to have that crossover appeal.

For me, The Supremes were the best at doing that kind of show. Marvin and Stevie were a million times better doing their own thing. Ditto Smokey and the Miracles.

[BobC]

I never once heard either "The Composer" or "Sign" on the radio, but have listened to the songs several times on Youtube--and frankly both songs seemed to be really weak in comparison to songs like "Love child." I still can' even hum the melody of either song, that's how unmemorable they are to me.

Hey I was in a bar last night for happy hour, and I heard a familiar voice being played over the sound system--but I didn't know the song so I asked the bartender. It was "Those DJ Shows" or something like that, by the Supremes. I'm assuming that's an older song, but Diana's voice was instantly recognizable. Maybe Berry had a point after all...

[uptight]

"Those DJ Shows" was a very early track but was never released until compilations of vaulted material were released. The bartender either had his own mp3 playlist going on or a digital music subscription that showed him the song information. LOL

[Sotosound]

I really liked "The Composer" when I first heard it on the UK compilation, 16 Big Hits Volume 8. It's an interesting composition with lots of changes to keep the interest of the listener. It's also arranged and mixed to sound bright and sunny - a bit like "In And Out Of Love". Although it's remained a favourite of mine ever since, I'm not certain, however, that it's perfect singles material as you have to sit down and listen to it to get the most out of it.

"No Matter What Sign You Are" was more instantly commercial back in 1969, picking up on astrology as it did. After the intro, the song just keeps the same tempo and rhythm throughout and therefore doesn't risk losing momentum - which can be a bad thing for an uptempo song.

[[Imagine if the full length "Band Of Gold" had been released instead of the much shorter and relentlessly beat-y version that we all know so well. That would have been tougher for a lot of people, including HDH and Freda Payne.)

"No Matter What Sign You Are" is also easier to remember after one listen, and pulls you in if you hear it in the background on a radio, i.e. it demands less of the casual listener. In those ways it made more sense as a single.