remove this doubt & going down for the third time

[thisoldheart]

as far as i can tell these two were only recorded once. rather usual for motown. what's the scoop, being as both are more than "filler" tunes in my book. in fact pheobe snow recorded "going down", so i'm not the only one who liked it. in fact i always thought it had potential as a single. "remove this doubt" is a great slow song. never did get how motown had everybody record everything, 'cept these two. experts explain!

[reese]

I read that GOING DOWN FOR THE THIRD TIME was originally recorded by Martha and the Vandellas, but never released.

[johnjeb]

I've also wondered why some songs were recorded by almost everyone at Motown and yet some great tunes by only one artist.

Other notable album tracks that seem only to have been recorded by The Supremes:

Mother You, Smother You [[besides Christine Schumacher - that doesn't count!)
He's All I Got
The Only Time I'm Happy
I'm In Love Again
Baby Doll
Discover Me
Misery Makes It's Home In My Heart

and even The Supremes' first hits Where Did Our Love Go and Baby Love were only covered by Choker Campbell.

There are lots of my favorite songs by many Motown artist that I would have loved to hear covered by other Motowners. Maybe some of the ones I mentioned are still in the vaults, one could only hope.

[johnjeb]

I read that GOING DOWN FOR THE THIRD TIME was originally recorded by Martha and the Vandellas, but never released.

I thought I read that it was planned for Martha but it worked with Diana so they left it at that. Works for me!

[Jimi LaLumia]

Four tops did "Mother you smother You" didn't they?
or the Isleys?

[luke]

Totally agree per Going Down-one of their most soulful, Flo loud and clear and could have been a hit!

[johnjeb]

Four tops did "Mother you smother You" didn't they?
or the Isleys?

If either group recorded this song it isn't listed in DFTMC. I used that as my guide but I also relied on my memory.

[daviddesper]

I have always thought that the Reflections/Going Down 45 was one of Motown's best two-sided records and I think if given the chance, Going Down could have been a hit on its own.

[mowest]

"Going Down For The Third Time" was a "hit bound" selection on the legendary CKLW in May, 1967. Another excellent B-side, "There's No Stopping Us Now" [[b/w "Love Is Here...") made #1 in Philadelphia [[WIBG), #4 in Boston [[WBZ) and #13 in Pittsburgh [[KDKA) earlier in 1967.

[soulwally]

Going down... is a stormer - which is why it's still a fixture at Motown/Northern Soul nites. Both Going down... and There's No Stopping Us Now were big favourites in the youth club days of the Sixties

Going down...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FuQCstht-CE

There's no...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rgXYyEz59Uk&feature=fvwrel

[RossHolloway]

I would also throw Everything is Good About You as being a stand out. Diana's delivery on that song still gives me chills, especially when you stop and listen to what she's singing. It was just more of that HDH magic. They really did some great album tracks on the Supremes.

[thommg]

Was I the only person surprised to hear the "Save Me, Save Me" chorus at the beginning of the cd version of Goin' Down For The Third Time? My album didn't have that on it and I LOVED it at the beginning of the song. I wonder why it wasn't used on the album track.

[RossHolloway]

Was I the only person surprised to hear the "Save Me, Save Me" chorus at the beginning of the cd version of Goin' Down For The Third Time? My album didn't have that on it and I LOVED it at the beginning of the song. I wonder why it wasn't used on the album track.

What cd are you referring to?

[mowest]

Was I the only person surprised to hear the "Save Me, Save Me" chorus at the beginning of the cd version of Goin' Down For The Third Time? My album didn't have that on it and I LOVED it at the beginning of the song. I wonder why it wasn't used on the album track.

I've read that the Andantes provided those additional "save me's." I wonder if they are on the rest of the recording.

[rovereab]

I would also throw Everything is Good About You as being a stand out. Diana's delivery on that song still gives me chills,

I totally agree, Diana's performance is outstanding IMO and gave an early insight of the greater achievements to come.

Eamonn

[thommg]

What cd are you referring to?

I'm pretty sure they appear on all the cd versions of the song, but I believe I first heard it on the two-fer that included Sings Holland Dozier Holland.

[RossHolloway]

I'm pretty sure they appear on all the cd versions of the song, but I believe I first heard it on the two-fer that included Sings Holland Dozier Holland.

I will have to check when I get home..

[reese]

It might be a mono/stereo thing. I always heard the "Save me, Save Me" on the stereo copies that I owned. But when I bought the 45, and the mono SING HDH album, some of them were missing. I also find the mono mix rather muddy re Diana's vocal.

[Jimi LaLumia]

I hate the 'save me"s..like the basic uncluttered track;
I also HATE the kazoo version of "Love Is Like An Itching.."; horrific,thank goodness that wasn't the single version

[ron]

'Remove this doubt' is one of my all time favourites, especially the mono version where the piano is prominent over the strings, rather than the other way around on the stereo version [[which as far as I know has only appeared on the stereo version of 'Supremes sing HDH' album).
Proving that we are all different, 'Itching' has to be my absolute favourite track of all time [[copy in me coffin please when the time comes, as long as there's a CD player as well), kazoo version or otherwise.... What surprised me was the kazoo version as far as I can tell was only released on the stereo version of 'Supremes a go-go'. Unless anyone knows any different of course!

[Jimi LaLumia]

it's my fave too, the birth of disco, but the kazoos tamper down the heat, they take the energy out of the party..real overkill AND buzzkill..no kazoo,thank you..

[nabob]

Going Down For the Third Time was a break through recording for the Supremes. Many folks in NYC were complaining that they had sold out to the pop market and lost their "soul". Diana sings from the gut with an unmatched urgency. If this isn't soulful, tell me what is.

[Jimi LaLumia]

As Mr.Gordy wisely deduced, The Supremes were pop stars with a soul base;
but pop came first it would seem from day one, Ross was concieved for pop,not soul;

[Motown4Ever518]

In Philly it was a 2 sided hit with In And Out Of Love I believe.

[Motown4Ever518]

This just in.....1000 apologies, from the land of a 1000 dances, I should have read the other posts before jumping in. It was huge in any event in William Penns Swinging Town even if I did not recall the hit that it was coupled with correctly.

[redlabs]

i have to give a listen to the alt REMOVE THIS DOUBT. cant remember now. but i do remember the SAVE ME SAVE ME but i knew it wasnt the Supremes. to bad.
i think we need to compile a list of alt stereo /mono mixs . i know there is a alt STRANGER IN PARADISE. from symphony lp. my original Symphony had only a diana lead but the stereo version has the supremes singing back up.much better IMO. i also heard there is another version of HEATWAVE but i havent heard it yet.

[RossHolloway]

'Remove this doubt' is one of my all time favourites, especially the mono version where the piano is prominent over the strings, rather than the other way around on the stereo version [[which as far as I know has only appeared on the stereo version of 'Supremes sing HDH' album).
Proving that we are all different, 'Itching' has to be my absolute favourite track of all time [[copy in me coffin please when the time comes, as long as there's a CD player as well), kazoo version or otherwise.... What surprised me was the kazoo version as far as I can tell was only released on the stereo version of 'Supremes a go-go'. Unless anyone knows any different of course!

I seem to remember hearing the kazoo on this song, but for the life of me I can't remember off what album/cd.

[RossHolloway]

As Mr.Gordy wisely deduced, The Supremes were pop stars with a soul base;
but pop came first it would seem from day one, Ross was concieved for pop,not soul;


To me the Supremes were a mix of their influence, much like all the early Motown stars. I don't think that Berry Gordy wanted just R&B artists, he wanted them to cross over and do it around the world. I think what made them all stand apart was that they were able to sing everything from standards, to pop songs, to r&b covers to Motown originals. I think it's because of this versality that we're still talking about their recordings almost 50 years after they were made.

[Jimi LaLumia]

think what make them all stand apart was that they were able to sing everything from standards, to pop songs, to r&b covers to Motown originals
---------------------------
that,however,is an apt descrption of The Supremes, and to a slightly lesser extent, the Four Tops, Tempations, Gaye and Wonder...not so much Marvelettes or Vandellas,Edwin Starr or Jr. Walker, Smokey & the Miracles weren't exactly doing Rogers & Hart,neither were the Jackson 5 doing country,western and pop..it was The Supremes who opened the doors to the Copa, Gordy's dream...it was a pop universe designed primarily for Miss Ross..

[RossHolloway]

think what make them all stand apart was that they were able to sing everything from standards, to pop songs, to r&b covers to Motown originals
---------------------------
that,however,is an apt descrption of The Supremes, and to a slightly lesser extent, the Four Tops, Tempations, Gaye and Wonder...not so much Marvelettes or Vandellas,Edwin Starr or Jr. Walker, Smokey & the Miracles weren't exactly doing Rogers & Hart,neither were the Jackson 5 doing country,western and pop..it was The Supremes who opened the doors to the Copa, Gordy's dream...it was a pop universe designed primarily for Miss Ross..

No, I would actually put all those groups in the same category as the Supremes. If you go and look back and listen to all their earlier album work those guys were doing it all too. The Supremes may have gotten more attention for it, but all those groups were doing standards and pop covers as well. I really think it's a tribute to Berry Gordy vision that he tried different materials on those groups, and encouraged them to include standards or show tunes in their live acts. I think that is one of the things that really seperated the top tier of artist from the rest. I think that even Katherine Anderson mentions it in a book/interview. I also think that Martha & The Vandellas were there too as well as the Miracles. Maybe not to the same extent as The Supremes, Temps, Tops and Marvin Gaye, but they didn't sing straight Motown/R&B either. I don't see too many artist today that are that gutsy in the material they cover.

[jeff9nyc]

I hate the 'save me"s..like the basic uncluttered track;
I also HATE the kazoo version of "Love Is Like An Itching.."; horrific,thank goodness that wasn't the single version

I couldn't agree more. The "save me save me," just clutters the track and really ruins the stereo version for me. Didn't like the kazoo on LILAIIMH either. Love the version that was done on the CD anthology and the PBS Motown box set. The best! Wow....that track really cooked. I have another completely different version on a test 45. I like it better than the kazoo mix but not as much as the anthology.

[RossHolloway]

Is the kazoo version of LILAIIMY on cd anywhere?

[randy_russi]

This song was the B side to You Keep Me Hangin' On, but I believe it was recorded in
'63 and considered at that time for a possible A side release.

[RossHolloway]

According to DFTMC Remove This Doubt was recorded in January 1965 in Detroit.

Oddly enough the song You're Gone, But Always In My Heart was recorded a year earlier in January 1964!

[Jimi LaLumia]

New waver Elvis Costello actually did a cover of "Remove this Doubt"..not a fan of his..
but I luv the "Do You Love Me" cover version by Johnny Thunders[[formerly of The New York Dolls) and his late 70's punk band The Heartbreakers[[not to be confused with Tom Petty who copped the name)

[ron]

Is the kazoo version of LILAIIMY on cd anywhere?

As mentioned in my post above, its available on 'Supremes sing Holland Dozier Holland'. This was last re-issued on the UK two-fer along with 'More Hits', and is still available at least through Amazon UK and US, unfortunately at a much higher price than I paid for it a few years back.

[Jimi LaLumia]

I have most of those two fers for many years,and the dread kazoo mix is indeed on there..ugh...what were they thinking?
and it's actually Supremes A Go Go which is two fered with the Love Child album

[nabob]

Is the kazoo version of LILAIIMY on cd anywhere?

It seems like I'm the only one with a preference for the Kazoo version. It is included on two long out of print compilations:
25th Anniversary [1986] and Compact Command Performances [1983]
That was back at the birth and infancy of the CD [25 and 28 years ago].

[stephanie]

I cant stand that Kazoo! Its on my A Go Go Album the released single version is much better. My love for Remove this Doubt is at an all time high but as a child the beginning of that song reminded me of a funeral parlor or Alfred Hitchcock.

[Jimi LaLumia]

beginning of that song reminded me of a funeral parlor or Alfred Hitchcock
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
YES!!!

[RossHolloway]

I cant stand that Kazoo! Its on my A Go Go Album the released single version is much better. My love for Remove this Doubt is at an all time high but as a child the beginning of that song reminded me of a funeral parlor or Alfred Hitchcock.

It is indeed a rather somber beginning fo a song.

[jeff9nyc]

The intro on "Gone But Always In my Heart" always sounded like a dirge to me! I never understood why that song with that arraignment was on the HDH album in that prominent spot. For another DMF Supremes overlooked classic, I'd vote for "He's All I Got." That song cooks!

[Motown Eddie]

Was I the only person surprised to hear the "Save Me, Save Me" chorus at the beginning of the cd version of Goin' Down For The Third Time? My album didn't have that on it and I LOVED it at the beginning of the song. I wonder why it wasn't used on the album track.

It's one of those things that different mixes [[in this case, the stereo and mono mixes) of a song can make. I can listen to "Going Down For The Third Time" in either version; I feel it's one of the best Supremes songs from their classic era [[and Diana Ross really goes for the throat with her lead vocals on the song).

[ExGuyParis]

Going Down is my second-favorite Supremes song, just a shade below Everything is Good About You. Back in the old days, we had to pay more for the stereo album than the mono... so the extra "Save Me's" were a bit more for your extra money! I love either version. The extra ones throw in an interesting driving counterpoint... and there is NO doubt you've got the stereo album!
;-)

[ExGuyParis]

The intro on "Gone But Always In my Heart" always sounded like a dirge to me! I never understood why that song with that arraignment was on the HDH album in that prominent spot. For another DMF Supremes overlooked classic, I'd vote for "He's All I Got." That song cooks!

LOL! Totally agree with the dirge analogy. And He's all I Got kicks butt... Flo totally nails it. LOVE it.

[tamla617]

going down....is one their records i forget about,and i think its one of the best drats outings.and i keep forgeting it!makes no sense,i love it.whats more suprising it was a b side.what was quality control thinking about?