Missing You

[jobeterob]

21291

The final big hit - well big American pop hit

[jobeterob]

Darn, it’s blurry

[Ollie9]

“Missing You” marked a return to the soulful type ballad Diana excelled at. Compared to much of the forgettable pop fluff she was turning out at the time, it was something of a relief to know she still had it in her.
Had she followed this up with a Lionel Ritchie produced album her hit making days might have continued a while longer.

[daviddh]

i remember this song taking a while to take off here in USA, then she appeared on the awards show and it took off.
good song, surprised she doesnt do this as much as anymore. it was a nice seller.

[florence]

Never really got Missing You.

Obviously the sentiment is fine but for me it's a bit dull, not one of her finest ballads.

It was dropping down the charts having peaked around the 40s/50s when her appearance on the awards show regalvanised the record.

It was a strange one in the UK.

At that time a record became a hit when it entered the Top 75 - Missing You peaked at #76!

But it sold steadily for quite a long period and spent 29 weeks in The UK Top 200 selling more than many of her minor "hits" which charted in the Top 75.

[jobeterob]

It’s not one of my favourite songs - but I think it’s a good recording and I like hearing it once in a while

[Ollie9]

Never really got Missing You.

Obviously the sentiment is fine but for me it's a bit dull, not one of her finest ballads.

It was dropping down the charts having peaked around the 40s/50s when her appearance on the awards show regalvanised the record.

It was a strange one in the UK.

At that time a record became a hit when it entered the Top 75 - Missing You peaked at #76!

But it sold steadily for quite a long period and spent 29 weeks in The UK Top 200 selling more than many of her minor "hits" which charted in the Top 75.

I remember it being played a plenty on UK radio at the time.
It remains a touching song, but i don’t consider it to be one of Diana’s strongest ballads. I think it’s appeal lay in the sentiment of the song, with most of us missing someone at some point in our lives.
It certainly marked a return to the Diana of old who at that point in time i thought gone forever.
Unlike her American fans, the UK didn’t particularly warm to the Swept Away album or subsequent singles. She hadn’t had a hit single since “Muscles” in 82 so her profile was kind of low here. Like the USA, it needed a tv appearance to give it a nudge.

[florence]

Unlike her American fans, the UK didn’t particularly warm to the Swept Away album or subsequent singles. She hadn’t had a hit single since “Muscles” in 82 so her profile was kind of low here. Like the USA, it needed a tv appearance to give it a nudge.

After 1982 EMI in the UK dropped the ball on promoting Diana.

Had Touch been a release in that year it was almost certainly at least Top 20.

Strangely, I suppose given its American success, they did pull out the stops for Missing You including re-promoting it several times to no avail.

If they had given it the same attention when it was released Touch would certainly have been a sizeable hit and perhaps the Swept Away album would have benefited

[Ollie9]

After 1982 EMI in the UK dropped the ball on promoting Diana.

Had Touch been a release in that year it was almost certainly at least Top 20.

Strangely, I suppose given its American success, they did pull out the stops for Missing You including re-promoting it several times to no avail.

If they had given it the same attention when it was released Touch would certainly have been a sizeable hit and perhaps the Swept Away album would have benefited

“Touch” did receive a fair amount of radio play at the time, but the public just weren’t interested. Personally i have always hated the song, finding it rather twee and lightweight.
They probably should have taken a chance with “Swept Away” but were probably put off by “Mirror Mirror” charting so poorly.

[Jaap]

"Touch by Touch" was a surprise Top 10 hit in the Netherlands, one of her bigger hits in the 1980s. "All of You" also made the Top 10, while "Missing You" didn't even chart [[which has always surprised me). "Touch by Touch" is a fun song, but to me not really a Diana Ross song -- and I never liked that bridge which seems to be copied straight from the opening tune of The A-Team.

[Ollie9]

"Touch by Touch" is a fun song, but to me not really a Diana Ross song A-Team.

At that point in time i don’t think there was anything typical of a Diana Ross song.
The SA album alone contained soft rock, calypso shuffler, r&b, weird techno, a bland retro cover and perhaps one of the worst pop songs of her career in “We Are The Children”.

[rovereab]

I like the song and the video which I think shows the good vibes between Diana and Marvin. However, what sounds like an edit at track time 2:00 lets the recording down as it spoils the flow of the song to my ears.

[Guy]

At that point in time i don’t think there was anything typical of a Diana Ross song.
The SA album alone contained soft rock, calypso shuffler, r&b, weird techno, a bland retro cover and perhaps one of the worst pop songs of her career in “We Are The Children”.


An excellent summation of SA.

[Boogiedown]

what week was that jobeterob ??
its too blury and I'm curious how crappy the competition was [or wasn't] that week








https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NIeoWMAZTtk

[jobeterob]

The date isn’t on it - but it was 1985

Private Dancer and Like A Virgin are on the chart21297

[jobeterob]

Is that better? Why are my pictures blurry?

[Boogiedown]

no better.
thanks for trying, I'll pick a date around WE ARE THE WORLD recording . :)

[midnightman]

How odd that that album - Swept Away - Diana and RCA basically had this "throw everything at the wall to see what sticks" method, which is why you have:

A rock-ish dance song [[title track)
Power ballads [[Forever Young)
Romantic duet [[All of You; apparently this was copy and pasted on SA)
R&B tunes [[Missing You, Telephone)
New wave-ish pop [[It's Your Move)
Schlocky humanitarian anthem [[We Are the Children)

And ironically, the one song that has endured was the new wave-ish tune, albeit in a very slowed down, reverbed, warped version and turned into a viral meme.

[sup_fan]

How odd that that album - Swept Away - Diana and RCA basically had this "throw everything at the wall to see what sticks" method, which is why you have:

A rock-ish dance song [[title track)
Power ballads [[Forever Young)
Romantic duet [[All of You; apparently this was copy and pasted on SA)
R&B tunes [[Missing You, Telephone)
New wave-ish pop [[It's Your Move)
Schlocky humanitarian anthem [[We Are the Children)

And ironically, the one song that has endured was the new wave-ish tune, albeit in a very slowed down, reverbed, warped version and turned into a viral meme.

it really was a patchwork album. there was 0 connectivity between the tunes in terms of production approach, style, anything. but it doesn't strike me as quick as disjointed at LTISH or Cream of the Crop.

now that said, there are some tunes that are really questionable. like Forever Young - i find her vocals way to wispy and breathy. Rescue Me is ok i guess but she always had some "oldies" tune on her albums or a knock off like So Close. the woman was now 40 and didn't need to be reminding people of "oldies" if her goal was to appear current and relevant.

i can deal with Children, had the hideous children's choir not been included. or at least if they could have sang in tune! there's this false notion that kids sing endearingly off pitch and that it's "cute." plenty of kids choirs can sing in pitch just fine.

[thommg]

i can deal with Children, had the hideous children's choir not been included. or at least if they could have sang in tune! there's this false notion that kids sing endearingly off pitch and that it's "cute." plenty of kids choirs can sing in pitch just fine.

When I hear that recording I think, why didn't they add a key change and just go all the way full shlock?

[midnightman]

it really was a patchwork album. there was 0 connectivity between the tunes in terms of production approach, style, anything. but it doesn't strike me as quick as disjointed at LTISH or Cream of the Crop.

now that said, there are some tunes that are really questionable. like Forever Young - i find her vocals way to wispy and breathy. Rescue Me is ok i guess but she always had some "oldies" tune on her albums or a knock off like So Close. the woman was now 40 and didn't need to be reminding people of "oldies" if her goal was to appear current and relevant.

i can deal with Children, had the hideous children's choir not been included. or at least if they could have sang in tune! there's this false notion that kids sing endearingly off pitch and that it's "cute." plenty of kids choirs can sing in pitch just fine.

One thing I noticed about the RCA material was how old fashioned everything was. Like you said, if Diana was tried to appeal to that era's young listeners, she didn't play her cards right by adding in oldies tunes or '60s-era type of material. Because it would bring attention to her age. That definitely added to why she had such a sales slump.

[Ollie9]

One thing I noticed about the RCA material was how old fashioned everything was. Like you said, if Diana was tried to appeal to that era's young listeners, she didn't play her cards right by adding in oldies tunes or '60s-era type of material. Because it would bring attention to her age. That definitely added to why she had such a sales slump.

The biggest mystery for me is why she waited nine years before reconnecting with Nile for an album in the vein of diana 80. It would seem a no-brainer to me.
She seemed clueless in thinking her fans and public craved repeats of 50’s retreads and yowling guitars.

[sansradio]

The biggest mystery for me is why she waited nine years before reconnecting with Nile for an album in the vein of diana 80. It would seem a no-brainer to me.
She seemed clueless in thinking her fans and public craved repeats of 50’s retreads and yowling guitars.

It may have had something to do with bad blood resulting from her decision to remix diana without his knowledge right before its release. He's said to have been seriously pissed.

[Ollie9]

It may have had something to do with bad blood resulting from her decision to remix diana without his knowledge right before its release. He's said to have been seriously pissed.

A possibility, though Bernard Edward’s seems to have forgiven her being he produced “Telephone” on SA, with Nile apparently the featured guitarist on “Its Your Move”.
I have a feeling they would have been willing to produce the whole album if Diana had been up for it. Perhaps control issues still cast a shadow.
It’s noteworthy that the album featured a grey album cover in the vein of “diana”.

[sup_fan]

The biggest mystery for me is why she waited nine years before reconnecting with Nile for an album in the vein of diana 80. It would seem a no-brainer to me.
She seemed clueless in thinking her fans and public craved repeats of 50’s retreads and yowling guitars.

i'm guessing here and trying to sort of piece together comments from fans like Bluebrock and others.

her recording career really wasn't a #1 priority for her at this period so it seems she sort of approached it with a lackadaisical attitude. Supposedly she wanted to work with Lionel and Quincy and Michael, especially on some of her earlier albums. but i guess they were busy or she didn't get hold of them soon enough or something. I would think being asked to produce THE debut album after Diana's departure from Motown would have been a prize at the top of most producer's wish list. I realize Quincy might have had contractual obligations with other singers and maybe just really couldn't squeeze her in. but i have my doubts on that.

Supposedly when she finally worked with the Gibbs, it was very rushed and very last minute. so perhaps she wasn't good at planning out these things or accounting for timelines.

there's a quote from around 1981 where she talks about producing it herself. i think she mentioned the idea of working with chic again but that they wanted creative control and that was something she was not willing to give up. odds are that sentiment carried through MUCH of her working relationships with producers while at RCA

[Ollie9]

i'm guessing here and trying to sort of piece together comments from fans like Bluebrock and others.

her recording career really wasn't a #1 priority for her at this period so it seems she sort of approached it with a lackadaisical attitude. Supposedly she wanted to work with Lionel and Quincy and Michael, especially on some of her earlier albums. but i guess they were busy or she didn't get hold of them soon enough or something. I would think being asked to produce THE debut album after Diana's departure from Motown would have been a prize at the top of most producer's wish list. I realize Quincy might have had contractual obligations with other singers and maybe just really couldn't squeeze her in. but i have my doubts on that.

Supposedly when she finally worked with the Gibbs, it was very rushed and very last minute. so perhaps she wasn't good at planning out these things or accounting for timelines.

there's a quote from around 1981 where she talks about producing it herself. i think she mentioned the idea of working with chic again but that they wanted creative control and that was something she was not willing to give up. odds are that sentiment carried through MUCH of her working relationships with producers while at RCA

Yet she was prepared to hand control of production duties to Gary Katz and Barry Gibb as opposed to reuniting with the producers of her best selling album.
The fact both Nile and Bernard are both featured on the SA album makes me think they would have been more then prepared for a follow up album at that point in time.

[sup_fan]

Diana would also receive songs from writers and producers as potential tunes to record. she might favor a few of those and want to include. so a project might not be 100% with 1 producer.

katz only did about 2/3 of the Ross lp. although supposedly there are unreleased tunes. not sure if they're his or Parkers though

[Ollie9]

Diana would also receive songs from writers and producers as potential tunes to record. she might favor a few of those and want to include. so a project might not be 100% with 1 producer.

katz only did about 2/3 of the Ross lp. although supposedly there are unreleased tunes. not sure if they're his or Parkers though

I don’t visualise a huge problem if she had presented certain songs she liked to any would be producer. Unless of course they were at the quality of “We Are The Children”.
Katz produced five of the eight songs featured on ross 83, with the disjointed “Girls’ the only Ross production.That’s a fair few.
My point being, when you have the best selling album of your career, why not go for a follow up. If anything, it was a style and genre of music she appeared for the most part to avoid.

[Boogiedown]

I'm not sure the Chic sound is worth revisiting. Do you really want even more of UPSIDE DOWN kind of stuff from her?
Seems like the artists that got the Chic treatment tapped into it briefly then moved on.
A little goes a long way.
Even Chic's own albums ....well I don't listen to them.

Disco worked best as a kaleidoscope of songs and artists and sounds being interweaved together. You got a bit of this and a bit of that and you moved on. That was a big factor in its magic.

[sup_fan]

I don’t visualise a huge problem if she had presented certain songs she liked to any would be producer. Unless of course they were at the quality of “We Are The Children”.
Katz produced five of the eight songs featured on ross 83, with the disjointed “Girls’ the only Ross production.That’s a fair few.
My point being, when you have the best selling album of your career, why not go for a follow up. If anything, it was a style and genre of music she appeared for the most part to avoid.

i think you're right about the importance of a follow up lp. the story is that chic was to produce a 2nd album on her at motown but of course she left the label before that could happen.

had she stayed - maybe she would have done more chic and maybe not. even if they had produced something, it might not have been released. the very early 80s were really a period of musical change as "disco" died and other more new wave sounds went mainstream.

I believe the next lp would have been a full Masser production with all new tunes, as opposed to the mishmash we got on To Love Again. That would have taken her through 1981

so that puts us at 1982. maybe the label would have brought Michael on board to work with her after the phenomenal success of Off The Wall and the Jackson's work at epic. MJ still had a good relationship with Berry and so even being at a different label probably wouldn't have totally stopped it. and if it was for Diana, hey no rules apply.

Lionel would almost undoubtedly produced her too. Assuming Endless Love still happened [[no reason it shouldn't in this timeline), then Dreaming Of You would probably have been a released too since both artists would have been on the Motown label.

[Ollie9]

I'm not sure the Chic sound is worth revisiting. Do you really want even more of UPSIDE DOWN kind of stuff from her?
Seems like the artists that got the Chic treatment tapped into it briefly then moved on.
A little goes a long way.
Even Chic's own albums ....well I don't listen to them.

Disco worked best as a kaleidoscope of songs and artists and sounds being interweaved together. You got a bit of this and a bit of that and you moved on. That was a big factor in its magic.

I think the public were clamouring for another “Upside Down” from her. Far more so than dated musical retreads or fluffy pop. There was definitely room for one more album.

[Boogiedown]

you seem certain.
but there is the risk of overstaying your welcome with that sound . the risk of the " hoo-hum she already did that" result.

As it is I already think of it as a Chic album that features Diana Ross. Does she want to get over identified as a performer under their shadow?


[i guess one could argue it worked with HDH]

[RanRan79]

I think the public were clamouring for another “Upside Down” from her. Far more so than dated musical retreads or fluffy pop. There was definitely room for one more album.

He's right that the Chic sound was dead. She didn't need to revisit that. Besides, Nile Rodgers had moved on had some huge successes.

So in all my criticisms of Diana during this time, I have failed to remember what she was dealing with. She apparently recorded the SA album when her mother was battling cancer. Then her mom dies like a month or two after the album dropped. There's no way Diana was thinking clearly during this time, nor that of when the EA album was being recorded. While I like the SA album, I've been brutal with my thoughts about the EA album and the dumb decisions I feel Diana made with the entire thing. I'm officially forgiving her EA. It's unfair to ask someone to be focused during such a tough time.

That being said, Nile would have been perfect for the follow up to SA. Like A Virgin had blown up, among some of his other projects, and while I wouldn't think Diana needed to be doing Madonna songs, Nile had certainly proven that he could produce quality albums around unique talent. I think he would have found a way to give Diana age appropriate songs that would appeal to the youth market and the more adult market. He most certainly would have given her a better all around album than EA.

[Ollie9]

He's right that the Chic sound was dead. She didn't need to revisit that. Besides, Nile Rodgers had moved on had some huge successes.

So in all my criticisms of Diana during this time, I have failed to remember what she was dealing with. She apparently recorded the SA album when her mother was battling cancer. Then her mom dies like a month or two after the album dropped. There's no way Diana was thinking clearly during this time, nor that of when the EA album was being recorded. While I like the SA album, I've been brutal with my thoughts about the EA album and the dumb decisions I feel Diana made with the entire thing. I'm officially forgiving her EA. It's unfair to ask someone to be focused during such a tough time.

That being said, Nile would have been perfect for the follow up to SA. Like A Virgin had blown up, among some of his other projects, and while I wouldn't think Diana needed to be doing Madonna songs, Nile had certainly proven that he could produce quality albums around unique talent. I think he would have found a way to give Diana age appropriate songs that would appeal to the youth market and the more adult market. He most certainly would have given her a better all around album than EA.

Without sounding hard hearted, it’s hard to comprehend that she spent two years not thinking clearly owing to her mother’s illness. It must have been difficult having to perform at Radio City every night, but i can’t believe the task of finding a strong producer would have added additional strain to the process of recording an album.
Many of us have to deal with the grief of losing a parent while still having to make important business decisions. Having a single producer take control would i have thought been an asset in freeing up time for her to concentrate on more personal matters during that difficult time.
I definitely think she should have teamed up with Nile and Bernard anytime between 81 -87. None of the albums she recorded during that time frame will ever be considered classics.

[midnightman]

The biggest mystery for me is why she waited nine years before reconnecting with Nile for an album in the vein of diana 80. It would seem a no-brainer to me.
She seemed clueless in thinking her fans and public craved repeats of 50’s retreads and yowling guitars.

Beats me. I think Diana would've found herself stuck anyway because the early '80s was not a great time for female pop-R&B artists prior to the arrivals of the "new blood" like Whitney and Janet.

Plus she was older, had kids to look after, too much was going on, you know?

Diana wanted control too and I think Nile and Bernard would've still butted heads with her. I think she should've rehired Ashford & Simpson - but I think by then, A&S were becoming stars on their own right. Luther Vandross became the go-to for the older divas [[Dionne, Aretha) in the '80s as well some younger ones [[Cheryl Lynn). Luther gave Diana a few songs. But again, probably would've butted heads [[as we now know about those legendary heated sessions Luther had with Aretha).

Maybe it just wasn't in the cards to work?

[midnightman]

A possibility, though Bernard Edward’s seems to have forgiven her being he produced “Telephone” on SA, with Nile apparently the featured guitarist on “Its Your Move”.
I have a feeling they would have been willing to produce the whole album if Diana had been up for it. Perhaps control issues still cast a shadow.
It’s noteworthy that the album featured a grey album cover in the vein of “diana”.

I'm still confused by who was the guitarist on IYM. People have said it's Nile but others say it's Jeff Beck so I don't know who's telling the truth [[though Nile is credited with playing guitar on the album).

[Ollie9]

I'm still confused by who was the guitarist on IYM. People have said it's Nile but others say it's Jeff Beck so I don't know who's telling the truth [[though Nile is credited with playing guitar on the album).

It is an odd one, unless Nile was hanging around the studio due to Bernard producing “Telephone”. Personally i have my doubts.
As a whole i find the SA” album dull and uninspiring, receiving mainly negative reviews upon it’s release here in the UK. The only decent songs for me are, “SA”, “Missing You” and the brilliant Telephone”.
One of the glaring faults with those rca albums being the weak tracks were particularly awful as opposed to just fillers as in the Motown years.

[sup_fan]

It is an odd one, unless Nile was hanging around the studio due to Bernard producing “Telephone”. Personally i have my doubts.
As a whole i find the SA” album dull and uninspiring, receiving mainly negative reviews upon it’s release here in the UK. The only decent songs for me are, “SA”, “Missing You” and the brilliant Telephone”.
One of the glaring faults with those rca albums being the weak tracks were particularly awful as opposed to just fillers as in the Motown years.

i think Telephone is absolutely dreadful. it plods along with no direction and she sounds thin and whiney.

i agree that SA is a hodge podge but i think it holds together ok. SA, Missing, Touch, it's your move, all of you are all solid tracks. Rescue Me and Forever Young are ok enough but nothing great.

I know the song Nobody Makes Me Crazy is a bit controversial. many people HATE it but i don't mind it. most definitely NOT a single but i think it's fine enough for an album track.

Fight For It was apparently dropped from the album once she got permission to include All Of You. Frankly she should have dropped Rescue Me or Forever.

I think Children is cheesy but had they cut the horrible children choir, it would have been ok. it's full on 80s teen movie when there was some goofy montage action sequence of the nerds and the dweebs finally overcoming the stuck up snooty girls and jocks, to triumph in the climax of the movie. but it's not terrible - at least it had some potential.

[Ollie9]

i think Telephone is absolutely dreadful. it plods along with no direction and she sounds thin and whiney.

i agree that SA is a hodge podge but i think it holds together ok. SA, Missing, Touch, it's your move, all of you are all solid tracks. Rescue Me and Forever Young are ok enough but nothing great.

I know the song Nobody Makes Me Crazy is a bit controversial. many people HATE it but i don't mind it. most definitely NOT a single but i think it's fine enough for an album track.

Fight For It was apparently dropped from the album once she got permission to include All Of You. Frankly she should have dropped Rescue Me or Forever.

I think Children is cheesy but had they cut the horrible children choir, it would have been ok. it's full on 80s teen movie when there was some goofy montage action sequence of the nerds and the dweebs finally overcoming the stuck up snooty girls and jocks, to triumph in the climax of the movie. but it's not terrible - at least it had some potential.

I don’t consider “We Are The Children” would ever have been ok lol.
I think “Telephone” one of the best songs she cut in the 80’s. Her voice is high, but soulful and expressive. “Rescue Me” is utterly devoid of any soul or feeling whatsoever when compared to the terrific version by Fontella Bass.
“”All Of You” only became popular owing to the fact it featured the immensely popular Inglesias. It would otherwise have fallen flat.
The rest with the exception of “SA”, “Missing You” and perhaps “Touch” [[if you like bubblegum pop) sounds flat and uninspired
The album garnered terrible reviews, with esteemed Motown historian and author Sharon Davis commenting “Why does she keep recording these awful songs”.
I’m with Sharon on that one.

[RanRan79]

Without sounding hard hearted, it’s hard to comprehend that she spent two years not thinking clearly owing to her mother’s illness. It must have been difficult having to perform at Radio City every night, but i can’t believe the task of finding a strong producer would have added additional strain to the process of recording an album.
Many of us have to deal with the grief of losing a parent while still having to make important business decisions. Having a single producer take control would i have thought been an asset in freeing up time for her to concentrate on more personal matters during that difficult time.
I definitely think she should have teamed up with Nile and Bernard anytime between 81 -87. None of the albums she recorded during that time frame will ever be considered classics.

As I have to repeatedly remind people, grief affects everyone in different ways. And yes, cloudy judgement is one of those things. And because one person can do "thing A" while grieving, another person may find it hard to even get out of bed. So yeah, I can forgive her these mistakes. Now, of course I have no way of knowing if this was Diana's issue or not. Contrary to popular belief, she doesn't confide in me.:p I'm just giving her the benefit of the doubt.

[RanRan79]

It is an odd one, unless Nile was hanging around the studio due to Bernard producing “Telephone”. Personally i have my doubts.
As a whole i find the SA” album dull and uninspiring, receiving mainly negative reviews upon it’s release here in the UK. The only decent songs for me are, “SA”, “Missing You” and the brilliant Telephone”.
One of the glaring faults with those rca albums being the weak tracks were particularly awful as opposed to just fillers as in the Motown years.

I like the album, with my favorites being the three you mentioned. I'm also rather partial...wait for it...to "We Are the Children".

But you are absolutely right, the weak tracks on the RCA albums are leaps and bounds worst than the worst of the ones on her Motown albums.

[RanRan79]

I think “Telephone” one of the best songs she cut in the 80’s. Her voice is high, but soulful and expressive. “Rescue Me” is utterly devoid of any soul or feeling whatsoever when compared to the terrific version by Fontella Bass.


I used to love "Telephone", then I cooled off of it, now I really like it again. My problem with it is that it needed a total remixing. But it was definitely the type of song I would from her during this period.

She should have been slapped for what she did to "Rescue Me". Honestly, I'm not convinced there is anything she could have done differently to be a worthy cover of such a great song. Nothing about the original sounds like it was in her wheelhouse. But then again, I wouldn't have thought she could do anything good with "Tell Mama", but I was pleasantly surprised that, at best, she didn't mess it up.

Her 80s cover songs mostly have a cheesy karaoke feel to them. I would say the exceptions are "Selfish One", which I think is great, "Sweet Soul Music", which also surprised me at how well she did it, and "There Goes My Baby".

[Ollie9]

I like the album, with my favorites being the three you mentioned. I'm also rather partial...wait for it...to "We Are the Children".

But you are absolutely right, the weak tracks on the RCA albums are leaps and bounds worst than the worst of the ones on her Motown albums.

Just for clarification, you actually like “We Are The Children”!!!. Perhaps she was taking advice from certain fans when compiling those rca albums. It would certainly be one explanation. :rolleyes:

[Ollie9]

As I have to repeatedly remind people, grief affects everyone in different ways. And yes, cloudy judgement is one of those things. And because one person can do "thing A" while grieving, another person may find it hard to even get out of bed. So yeah, I can forgive her these mistakes. Now, of course I have no way of knowing if this was Diana's issue or not. Contrary to popular belief, she doesn't confide in me.:p I'm just giving her the benefit of the doubt.

I think few of us need any lessons on grief, but can’t really see it was responsible for her making questionable decisions over a two year period.
Until that all revealing book arrives, i guess we will never know for sure.

[Levi Stubbs Tears]

It's funny that people think Nile & Bernard's music was dated in the early 1980s when they went on to have huge successes with Madonna, David Bowie, Power Station, Duran Duran, INXS and many more that decade.

Nile & Bernard also wrote many lovely ballads. Pretty much all of them were superior to anything Diana recorded during the RCA years.

[Ollie9]

It's funny that people think Nile & Bernard's music was dated in the early 1980s when they went on to have huge successes with Madonna, David Bowie, Power Station, Duran Duran, INXS and many more that decade.

Nile & Bernard also wrote many lovely ballads. Pretty much all of them were superior to anything Diana recorded during the RCA years.

Very much agree.

[sup_fan]

Just for clarification, you actually like “We Are The Children”!!!. Perhaps she was taking advice from certain fans when compiling those rca albums. It would certainly be one explanation. :rolleyes:

Children is definitely a product of it's time. lol very 80s sound but the track itself is also energetic and she commits to the vocals with more effort than other tracks. it's not a highlight of her discography but [[apart from the ill conceived child voices) it's hardly the worst she sounded on vinyl. IMO it's more enjoyable than most of Eaten Alive lp

[sup_fan]

It's funny that people think Nile & Bernard's music was dated in the early 1980s when they went on to have huge successes with Madonna, David Bowie, Power Station, Duran Duran, INXS and many more that decade.

Nile & Bernard also wrote many lovely ballads. Pretty much all of them were superior to anything Diana recorded during the RCA years.

very true but that was all a little after a "cooling off" period of a couple years. chic was so hot in the late 70s and then the diana album in 80. but then the next big hit was Bowie's Let's Dance.

[RanRan79]

It's funny that people think Nile & Bernard's music was dated in the early 1980s when they went on to have huge successes with Madonna, David Bowie, Power Station, Duran Duran, INXS and many more that decade.


I can only speak for myself, but when I say the sound was dead, I was talking about the Chic sound. Everyone knows a Chic production of the late 70s into early 80s. It has a signature sound. Diana got that sound when it was fast on the way out. She did not need to have any more productions post 1980 that sounded like the diana80 album.

The successes Nile and Bernard moved on to throughout the 80s sounds nothing like the sound they became known for in the disco era. So yeah, using them during this time makes a lot of sense. But Diana could not have afforded a diana80 sound alike in 1981. The public had been there and done that and moved on.

[RanRan79]

Children is definitely a product of it's time. lol very 80s sound but the track itself is also energetic and she commits to the vocals with more effort than other tracks. it's not a highlight of her discography but [[apart from the ill conceived child voices) it's hardly the worst she sounded on vinyl. IMO it's more enjoyable than most of Eaten Alive lp

It is very 80s. And like you, I've always thought it sounded perfect for some cheesy 80s movie, which is right up my alley. It's no "Swept Away", but I enjoy it for what it is.

[Ollie9]

Children is definitely a product of it's time. lol very 80s sound but the track itself is also energetic and she commits to the vocals with more effort than other tracks. it's not a highlight of her discography but [[apart from the ill conceived child voices) it's hardly the worst she sounded on vinyl. IMO it's more enjoyable than most of Eaten Alive lp

I so disagree. I think the song without doubt the worst she has ever recorded in her long career. Along with “Rescue Me” it remains the low point of the album. It really was so not what she should have been recording at the time.
Give me EA any day. :)

[Ollie9]

I can only speak for myself, but when I say the sound was dead, I was talking about the Chic sound. Everyone knows a Chic production of the late 70s into early 80s. It has a signature sound. Diana got that sound when it was fast on the way out. She did not need to have any more productions post 1980 that sounded like the diana80 album.

The successes Nile and Bernard moved on to throughout the 80s sounds nothing like the sound they became known for in the disco era. So yeah, using them during this time makes a lot of sense. But Diana could not have afforded a diana80 sound alike in 1981. The public had been there and done that and moved on.

The point being that with the exception of “Mirror Mirror” Diana didn’t move on with her music. In 81 she was doing 50’s retreads or dated disco schlock like “It’s Never Too Late”. The “diana” album sounded fresh and cutting edge by comparison.

[sup_fan]

I so disagree. I think the song without doubt the worst she has ever recorded in her long career. Along with “Rescue Me” it remains the low point of the album. It really was so not what she should have been recording at the time.
Give me EA any day. :)

see i think her vocals are so weak and breathy on EA. she's out of tune on a significant amount of the tunes and frankly the tunes are really little more than pablum. even Chain Reaction is NOT a high quality song. I'm glad it did well internationally but this is not timeless music. it's a cheap knock off of the motown sound. Katrina and the Waves did it MUCH better with Walking on Sunshine or Wham with Wake Me Up.

[sup_fan]

The point being that with the exception of “Mirror Mirror” Diana didn’t move on with her music. In 81 she was doing 50’s retreads or dated disco schlock like “It’s Never Too Late”. The “diana” album sounded fresh and cutting edge by comparison.

i do agree with this. she was mostly just singing run of the mill pop tunes. I think Mirror, Sweet Surrender and the backing track to Work that Body could have been the anchor of a fresh new sound and album. heck even the title Work That Body could have been super sexy and hot. but the inane lyrics about eating cake!?!? made it a joke of a song.

[Ollie9]

see i think her vocals are so weak and breathy on EA. she's out of tune on a significant amount of the tunes and frankly the tunes are really little more than pablum. even Chain Reaction is NOT a high quality song. I'm glad it did well internationally but this is not timeless music. it's a cheap knock off of the motown sound. Katrina and the Waves did it MUCH better with Walking on Sunshine or Wham with Wake Me Up.

For me there is nothing cheap about “Chain Reaction. I think it a glorious salute to her Motown years that still sounds fresh and exciting today.

[Ollie9]

i do agree with this. she was mostly just singing run of the mill pop tunes. I think Mirror, Sweet Surrender and the backing track to Work that Body could have been the anchor of a fresh new sound and album. heck even the title Work That Body could have been super sexy and hot. but the inane lyrics about eating cake!?!? made it a joke of a song.

I’m pleased we agree on something sup lol.

[sup_fan]

It is very 80s. And like you, I've always thought it sounded perfect for some cheesy 80s movie, which is right up my alley. It's no "Swept Away", but I enjoy it for what it is.

the song Swept Away is sort of a curious entry in her discography. i think it's a pretty solid production and is an exciting song. but i never listen to it. it seems to be so overlooked, easily forgottten.

it only just charted inside the Top 20. apparently it was competing with the duet All of You. do you think it might have had the chance to go top 10? would that have made it more well know and more recognized?

[sup_fan]

I’m pleased we agree on something sup lol.

haha i know!! although this is one of my fav past times here. comparing notes on what we each like/dislike, seeing who's in agreement with us but also seeing who has different ideas. there have been a few times where i've changed my mind about one of the tunes as i've heard more POVs on it.

[sup_fan]

For me there is nothing cheap about “Chain Reaction. I think it a glorious salute to her Motown years that still sounds fresh and exciting today.

i think Battlefield on Force is a stronger tune and better production. although i don't see if as a "lost hit"

after movies The Big Chill, Dirty Dancing, Stand By Me and Twist and Shout appearing in Ferris Bueller, there was a strong interest in the general public for the 60s, motown and motown-esque tunes. some were better than others. CR is IMO not one of the best. Walking on Sunshine is probably one of the best of these throwback style songs.

and i still find the backing Gibbs vocals to be grating, even on CR. the whole sound just doesn't work well with Diana

[RanRan79]

The point being that with the exception of “Mirror Mirror” Diana didn’t move on with her music. In 81 she was doing 50’s retreads or dated disco schlock like “It’s Never Too Late”. The “diana” album sounded fresh and cutting edge by comparison.

I agree, but repeating diana80 wasn't the right move either. In 1981 disco was officially dead. It was time to move on. "Mirror, Mirror" was definitely the right direction. It's unfortunate that she didn't insist the entire album be structured around this more progressive sound.

[RanRan79]

see i think her vocals are so weak and breathy on EA. she's out of tune on a significant amount of the tunes and frankly the tunes are really little more than pablum. even Chain Reaction is NOT a high quality song. I'm glad it did well internationally but this is not timeless music. it's a cheap knock off of the motown sound. Katrina and the Waves did it MUCH better with Walking on Sunshine or Wham with Wake Me Up.

I reluctantly agree with you here. It is a very good song. I think in someone else's productive hands, "Chain" could have been the quality of "Sunshine" or "Wake Me Up". I'm usually gob smacked at the fact that "Chain" was such a huge hit all over the world but failed here at home. But the more I think about it, it is missing something. I think the track needed some extra "oomph", and those backing vocals...where were the Andantes when you need them?:p I still dig the song, but I can understand better why it didn't take off here.

It's my understanding that Diana initially didn't want to record the song because she thought it sounded too much like what she might have done with the Supremes. After the whole Motown 25 debacle, it might have been good PR for her to call up Mary and Cindy [[maybe even Jean, Lynda, Scherrie and Susaye as well) to sing backup. In a perfect world, Mary and Cindy would have said "yes", the group would have left a better taste in the mouths of the public after Motown 25 and all would be well. In reality of course, Mary would have insisted on singing a few lines, Diana would have been pissed, and the whole thing would never have happened.:cool:

[RanRan79]

the song Swept Away is sort of a curious entry in her discography. i think it's a pretty solid production and is an exciting song. but i never listen to it. it seems to be so overlooked, easily forgottten.

it only just charted inside the Top 20. apparently it was competing with the duet All of You. do you think it might have had the chance to go top 10? would that have made it more well know and more recognized?

"Swept Away" is constantly in my "all songs" rotation. I remember it being on the radio all the time as a kid, and the video got a lot of rotation as well. If it was competing with "All Of You", that makes sense that "Swept" only got as far as it did. I think without the competition, it would have easily made it into the top 10. It went top 5 on the R&B chart, as "All Of You" was no real competition there.

[Ollie9]

I agree, but repeating diana80 wasn't the right move either. In 1981 disco was officially dead. It was time to move on. "Mirror, Mirror" was definitely the right direction. It's unfortunate that she didn't insist the entire album be structured around this more progressive sound.

I disagree. “diana” wasn’t a traditional disco album in the vein if ‘I Will Survive. It was funky and exciting r&b that took her in another direction. The public loved this new sound being why it took off. “Mirror Mirror” was fresh, but i don’t think soft rock was a place to linger as in 5O’s retreads being it wasn’t the genre of music she was famous for.
It’s worth noting that the single flopped here in the UK, usually her most reliable market.

[sup_fan]

I disagree. “diana” wasn’t a traditional disco album in the vein if ‘I Will Survive. It was funky and exciting r&b that took her in another direction. The public loved this new sound being why it took off. “Mirror Mirror” was fresh, but i don’t think soft rock was a place to linger as in 5O’s retreads being it wasn’t the genre of music she was famous for.
It’s worth noting that the single flopped here in the UK, usually her most reliable market.

see - another point we agree upon! lol diana 80 wasn't traditional disco and it also wasn't all just traditional chic either. yes there are some parts of it that are very, very chic-heavy. but I'm Coming Out is a total departure from their sound. As you mention, there was a enough funk and urban groove to help it steer clear of being "disco"

[Ollie9]

see - another point we agree upon! lol diana 80 wasn't traditional disco and it also wasn't all just traditional chic either. yes there are some parts of it that are very, very chic-heavy. but I'm Coming Out is a total departure from their sound. As you mention, there was a enough funk and urban groove to help it steer clear of being "disco"

We should be careful, this could become a habit. I would have loved for Nile & Bernard to have worked on a follow up to the funky “diana” set. A slightly harder edged album might have been good in the vein of “Give Up”.
They might even have produced “Mirror Mirror” and “Sweet Surrender” as songs Diana particularly wanted to record.

[RanRan79]

I disagree. “diana” wasn’t a traditional disco album in the vein if ‘I Will Survive. It was funky and exciting r&b that took her in another direction. The public loved this new sound being why it took off. “Mirror Mirror” was fresh, but i don’t think soft rock was a place to linger as in 5O’s retreads being it wasn’t the genre of music she was famous for.
It’s worth noting that the single flopped here in the UK, usually her most reliable market.

I agree that it wasn't traditional disco, maybe not even disco at all. But Chic was a driving force of some of disco's biggest sounds. To the public Bernard and Niles were Chic and they had a rather identifiable sound.

"Mirror, Mirror" wasn't just fresh, it was funky. Soft rock? There's a rockish guitar doing it's thing, but me thinks a "rockish guitar" does not a rock song make. I don't know why "Mirror" didn't break big in the UK, but in the States it was a big hit, just missing the number one spot on the R&B chart. [[I'm curious to know from those of you who may know- looking at you Reese:p- what was the song that kept "Mirror" from the number one spot?)

"Mirror", "Work That Body" with different lyrics, "Think I'm In Love", and "Sweet Surrender" were all worth keeping. She needed four more edgy cuts and one big ballad and I think the Mirror, Mirror album [[because that's what I would have called it) would have been classic.

[RanRan79]

see - another point we agree upon! lol diana 80 wasn't traditional disco and it also wasn't all just traditional chic either. yes there are some parts of it that are very, very chic-heavy. but I'm Coming Out is a total departure from their sound. As you mention, there was a enough funk and urban groove to help it steer clear of being "disco"

The intro to "I'm Coming Out" isn't characteristic Chic. The rest of it has Chic written all over it.

[RanRan79]

We should be careful, this could become a habit. I would have loved for Nile & Bernard to have worked on a follow up to the funky “diana” set. A slightly harder edged album might have been good in the vein of “Give Up”.
They might even have produced “Mirror Mirror” and “Sweet Surrender” as songs Diana particularly wanted to record.

Don't you hate agreeing with Sup? It makes me feel all icky inside.:cool:

Yeah, y'all have way more faith in this idea about the follow up than I do. The previously unreleased album they did with Johnny Mathis in 81 and their own Take It Off album that year all sound a lot like leftovers from the diana80 sessions. Even the album they did with Debbie Harry, while there was some departures in sound, particularly in a rock vein, there were quite a few numbers that basically sound like more leftovers from diana80 with a rock element. Now by the time they get to Bowie, the sound had progressed. There's nothing that sounds like the old Chic sound. So heading back to them for another album makes total sense for Ross83 and onwards. But I fear that had she tried to repeat diana80 with her RCA debut, it would have failed. Massively? Probably not. Underperforming expectations? Yup.

[reese]

"Mirror, Mirror" wasn't just fresh, it was funky. Soft rock? There's a rockish guitar doing it's thing, but me thinks a "rockish guitar" does not a rock song make. I don't know why "Mirror" didn't break big in the UK, but in the States it was a big hit, just missing the number one spot on the R&B chart. [[I'm curious to know from those of you who may know- looking at you Reese:p- what was the song that kept "Mirror" from the number one spot?)



Not sure, but looking at dates, it could possibly be Stevie Wonder's THAT GIRL.

[Levi Stubbs Tears]

Now by the time they get to Bowie, the sound had progressed.

"They" didn't get to Bowie. Only Nile [[though he got Bernard in to play bass on one track).

[Levi Stubbs Tears]

She did not need to have any more productions post 1980 that sounded like the diana80 album.

The public had been there and done that and moved on.

I think the public had also moved on from songs like 'Why Do Fools Fall in Love' from the 50s, but obviously Diana didn't agree.

[Levi Stubbs Tears]

Underperforming expectations?

That could be the title of every album Diana released at RCA.

[rovereab]

For me there is nothing cheap about “Chain Reaction. I think it a glorious salute to her Motown years that still sounds fresh and exciting today.

I totally agree Ollie9. Chain Reaction is an excellent reminder of the golden Motown years. The accompanying video is also full of fun but with important "reflection" on Diana's different looks over the years.

It hit the nail on the head in the UK where, unlike the USA at times, Diana has never lost her strong following. Chain Reaction is still a floor filler at events and clearly liked by all age groups. Sadly, I don't hear much else to really like on the Eaten Alive album.

[Ollie9]

I totally agree Ollie9. Chain Reaction is an excellent reminder of the golden Motown years. The accompanying video is also full of fun but with important "reflection" on Diana's different looks over the years.

It hit the nail on the head in the UK where, unlike the USA at times, Diana has never lost her strong following. Chain Reaction is still a floor filler at events and clearly liked by all age groups. Sadly, I don't hear much else to really like on the Eaten Alive album.

Absolutely. It’s a Diana Ross classic that for me remains up there with her very best.
Aside from the huge international success of “Chain Reaction”, the “Eaten Alive” single was a top ten r&b hit as well as reaching #3 on the us dance chart.
Regarding EA the album, the big thing for me being at least it was a cohesive set and not just a hodgepodge of songs thrown together.
I would have much preferred something more soulful from a different producer, but the album proved successful enough to make it a worthwhile project.

[sup_fan]

The intro to "I'm Coming Out" isn't characteristic Chic. The rest of it has Chic written all over it.

yes there are chic trademarks to ICO but the use of brass and the trombone solo during the bridge are way different from other chic tunes. that brass sound is the anchor of the song so i think it is really quite different. listen to Good Times, one of biggest hits and just prior to the diana 80 set. it's really a very different sound to what they evolved into on ICO

[jobeterob]

I prefer the Eaten Alive album a little more than SA - I wasn’t keen on Children, FY and even MY wasn’t high up my list. However, I saw the recent list of sales showed SA at 1.5 million - powered by MY, SA and All of You.

[Boogiedown]

Disco was not dead when Diana hit #1 on its chart with UPSIDE/ COMING OUT.
Billboard had a Hot 100 that week for the genre just as it did for Soul, Country, and Pop.

You can't pigeon hole disco as having had a certain sound. There was no one sound. And as soon as any style became too familiar, the DJs were on to the next ... As with UPSIDE DOWN Chic's first release: DANCE DANCE DANCE was not "traditional" disco either. That's what made it stand out as being Chic's sound. In fact I don't know what traditional disco means. It was always changing, always had variables ...
So yes UPSIDE DOWN was a fresh approach to disco ...as was to be expected ...

From that same disco chart of Aug 16, 1980 where Diana was #1


some wild secret disco:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qYxSNIIdfP4

where synths and electronics clash head on with real.


Just for fun

[Ollie9]

Don't you hate agreeing with Sup? It makes me feel all icky inside.:cool:

Yeah, y'all have way more faith in this idea about the follow up than I do. The previously unreleased album they did with Johnny Mathis in 81 and their own Take It Off album that year all sound a lot like leftovers from the diana80 sessions. Even the album they did with Debbie Harry, while there was some departures in sound, particularly in a rock vein, there were quite a few numbers that basically sound like more leftovers from diana80 with a rock element. Now by the time they get to Bowie, the sound had progressed. There's nothing that sounds like the old Chic sound. So heading back to them for another album makes total sense for Ross83 and onwards. But I fear that had she tried to repeat diana80 with her RCA debut, it would have failed. Massively? Probably not. Underperforming expectations? Yup.

For me and a lot of others it would have been preferable to what we did end up with.
The traditional Chic sound remained popular throughout the early 80’s, with Sister Sledge charting high with “Thinking Of You” in 83, as well as a remix of “We Are Family” and “Lost In Music” in 84. There was also “Frankie” which reached #1 in the UK.
At that point in time, fans and public would have been more than happy with another “Upside Down/Coming Out” from Diana as much as a “Mirror Mirror” which itself was a nice slice of funk.

[Levi Stubbs Tears]

To the public Bernard and Niles were Chic and they had a rather identifiable sound.


I don't think in 1980 'the public' would have even known who Nile & Nard were. And their sound was always changing. The people that say Debbie Harry's solo album sounds like 'diana leftovers' crack me up.

They wrote Diana's album 'to order' [['songs that my kids can sing') and wrote Debbie's album with a rap [[one of the first)/hip-hop theme. The Koo-koo album was ahead of its' time [[probably why it was not a bigger hit) and still stands out today. Very few of the 'Chic Organisation' productions sound the same apart from quality.

I remember a record review in the early 80s [[post 'Disco sucks' and the Chic hit years) describing a Nile/Nard song as 'pre-meditated excellence'. Maybe 'Record Mirror' or another UK publication.

ETA - I remember the review now. It was the Chic song '26'.

'26 - my baby's a 26. On a scale of 1 to 10, my baby's a 26' lol

[Levi Stubbs Tears]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cjuL32pgsIE

[RanRan79]

"They" didn't get to Bowie. Only Nile [[though he got Bernard in to play bass on one track).

Yes, you're right. Thank you for the correction. Makes sense too because it sounds nothing like the stuff they did together.

[RanRan79]

I think the public had also moved on from songs like 'Why Do Fools Fall in Love' from the 50s, but obviously Diana didn't agree.

Apparently they didn't move on because the song was a hit. I'll never understand why it was a hit. To me it sounds like karaoke and it definitely is not how I would have kicked off this phase of her career. But the public felt differently, unfortunately.

[RanRan79]

That could be the title of every album Diana released at RCA.

You aint lying about that. Lol

[RanRan79]

For me and a lot of others it would have been preferable to what we did end up with.
The traditional Chic sound remained popular throughout the early 80’s, with Sister Sledge charting high with “Thinking Of You” in 83, as well as a remix of “We Are Family” and “Lost In Music” in 84. There was also “Frankie” which reached #1 in the UK.
At that point in time, fans and public would have been more than happy with another “Upside Down/Coming Out” from Diana as much as a “Mirror Mirror” which itself was a nice slice of funk.

Yeah, I can agree it probably would have been a better set of songs than what Fools ultimately ended up being. I'm just not convinced it would have been popular with the general public.

[RanRan79]

I don't think in 1980 'the public' would have even known who Nile & Nard were. And their sound was always changing. The people that say Debbie Harry's solo album sounds like 'diana leftovers' crack me up.

They wrote Diana's album 'to order' [['songs that my kids can sing') and wrote Debbie's album with a rap [[one of the first)/hip-hop theme. The Koo-koo album was ahead of its' time [[probably why it was not a bigger hit) and still stands out today. Very few of the 'Chic Organisation' productions sound the same apart from quality.

I remember a record review in the early 80s [[post 'Disco sucks' and the Chic hit years) describing a Nile/Nard song as 'pre-meditated excellence'. Maybe 'Record Mirror' or another UK publication.

ETA - I remember the review now. It was the Chic song '26'.

'26 - my baby's a 26. On a scale of 1 to 10, my baby's a 26' lol

I'm glad my opinion cracks you up.:cool:

Nothing you've said has changed my mind. Johnny's album, Debbie's album, and Chic's album sound like a bunch of stuff that might have been on or recorded for diana80 and I'm unconvinced that the public would have continued to eat the sound up.

[RanRan79]

Her two biggest hits from 1984 were "Swept Away" and "Missing You". She hadn't had a hit single since 1982. Seems like it would have made sense for her to tap Daryl Hall and/or Lionel Richie for the next album, both of whom I have confidence that they would have given her top quality tunes.

[sup_fan]

i don't think the WDFFIL album is terrible. it's quite enjoyable - aside from the hideous Endless Love cover. but i do agree that it isn't up to the task of being THE debut album for her new label.

[RanRan79]

i don't think the WDFFIL album is terrible. it's quite enjoyable - aside from the hideous Endless Love cover. but i do agree that it isn't up to the task of being THE debut album for her new label.

Not terrible, but it wasn't the album that should have kicked off the new phase of her career.

[sup_fan]

Not terrible, but it wasn't the album that should have kicked off the new phase of her career.

completely agree. and another point is one Randy made in a book about how by the time the 80s came around, Diana had been a star for nearly 20 years. and so it wasn't like 1965 where they needed to flood the market with product and have a ton of lps and a new single every 4 months. at this time in her career she could easily have gone 12 - 18 months between albums, provided what was released was strong and meaningful. the WDFFIL package is really more like a random album they released when they just needed product. like if they released an album while she was making a movie or just to have a new lp for the holiday season.

Also she seemed hellbent on maintaining herself in the Top 40. but by this time, that torch had really been passed. and she herself was approaching her 40s. so it's really about a new generation of artists. she should/could have focused more on creating special music and albums, occasionally tapping into some current sound to re-engage with the youth market, perhaps doing a film title track or something.

[reese]

completely agree. and another point is one Randy made in a book about how by the time the 80s came around, Diana had been a star for nearly 20 years. and so it wasn't like 1965 where they needed to flood the market with product and have a ton of lps and a new single every 4 months. at this time in her career she could easily have gone 12 - 18 months between albums, provided what was released was strong and meaningful. the WDFFIL package is really more like a random album they released when they just needed product. like if they released an album while she was making a movie or just to have a new lp for the holiday season.

Also she seemed hellbent on maintaining herself in the Top 40. but by this time, that torch had really been passed. and she herself was approaching her 40s. so it's really about a new generation of artists. she should/could have focused more on creating special music and albums, occasionally tapping into some current sound to re-engage with the youth market, perhaps doing a film title track or something.

During the late 70s and early 80s, most of Diana's peers [Aretha, Dionne, etc.] were releasing at least one album per year. During some of those years, Dionne and Millie Jackson actually released two.

But Diana's contracts [with RCA and EMI] called for her to release an album per year for seven years. So stretching it to 18 months wasn't possible. During her RCA era [1981-1987], she only missed releasing an album in 1986. That was the year she recorded the Harold Arlen album which for some reason went unreleased.

[Boogiedown]

For me and a lot of others it would have been preferable to what we did end up with.
The traditional Chic sound remained popular throughout the early 80’s, with Sister Sledge charting high with “Thinking Of You” in 83, as well as a remix of “We Are Family” and “Lost In Music” in 84. There was also “Frankie” which reached #1 in the UK.
At that point in time, fans and public would have been more than happy with another “Upside Down/Coming Out” from Diana as much as a “Mirror Mirror” which itself was a nice slice of funk.

You could very well be right Ollie....it might have been a one-two punch of success. I guess we'll never know.
I doubt it though. Were you actually thinking at the time, "gee, I wish this Chic/ Diana album were a two-record set??"

They might've stuck her with this one:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Mgi3QkwHQ4Q


Disco to fall asleep by :p

BTW Don't misunderstand me ...I'm a Chic fan.

[Ollie9]

You could very well be right Ollie....it might have been a one-two punch of success. I guess we'll never know.
I doubt it though. Were you actually thinking at the time, "gee, I wish this Chic/ Diana album were a two-record set??"

They might've stuck her with this one:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Mgi3QkwHQ4Q


Disco to fall asleep by :p

BTW Don't misunderstand me ...I'm a Chic fan.

Not necessarily this song, but would have more than welcomed a Nile and Bernard follow up to “diana”. It was the funkiest she had sounded in years.
Upon first hearing “WDFFIL”, my only thought was WTF.

[sup_fan]

During the late 70s and early 80s, most of Diana's peers [Aretha, Dionne, etc.] were releasing at least one album per year. During some of those years, Dionne and Millie Jackson actually released two.

But Diana's contracts [with RCA and EMI] called for her to release an album per year for seven years. So stretching it to 18 months wasn't possible. During her RCA era [1981-1987], she only missed releasing an album in 1986. That was the year she recorded the Harold Arlen album which for some reason went unreleased.

definitely true. her contract might have been frankly composed with different intentions. of course RCA coughed up a LOT of money on day 1 and they wanted a return on that investment. and maybe the Harold Arlen material was truly lovely and captivating but unfortunately not commercial. i don't even know if any fans have really heard the material to know how it turned out. it might have been a wonderful "classic" of an album but RCA was wanting top 40.

and i think by that time, the leadership at RCA had changed. the president that signed Diana was gone, partly due to him spending a shit ton on signing marquee acts and singers and not really focusing on the reality of the costs. so the new leadership might have wanted nothing but pop mega hits in order to recoup.

[RanRan79]

Upon first hearing “WDFFIL”, my only thought was WTF.

Same here, although my first hearing it was many years after its release. She was so much better than that crap. Her first single on RCA should have been some type of mega smash. I can't imagine anyone hearing it before it was pressed and released thinking "Now that is going to let the world know that Diana Ross is queen, no matter the label". No doubt in my mind that had she stayed with Motown and gotten some creative freedom, "Fools" would not have made it out the gate.

[RanRan79]

I love Teena Marie. Her first few albums at Motown are pretty great. She released some fantastic singles too, but most of what she recorded didn't live up to it's potential, sales and chart wise. I've always been confused about that, although now I realize that her race and the public's wishy washy attitude toward it just didn't make for the best combo for taking her career to the heights it should have been.

So I said all of that to say something I know I've said before, that had Diana stayed at Motown, Teena producing her album after diana80 might have been a perfect match. Diana singing the songs instead of Teena could have been very successful. Not that Diana and Teena's singing styles were anything alike, but I think Diana would have done a great job with "It Must Be Magic", "Square Biz", "Portuguese Love", among others.

[midnightman]

Not necessarily this song, but would have more than welcomed a Nile and Bernard follow up to “diana”. It was the funkiest she had sounded in years.
Upon first hearing “WDFFIL”, my only thought was WTF.

Imagine going from Funkadelic to doing a ballad with some cheesy pop producer lol that's exactly what it felt like. LOL