Pops We Love You …. What happened ?

[Circa 1824]

Pops We Love You had brilliant vocals from 4 superstars, and was written by proven hit makers.

It not only commercially failed, but is impossible for me to listen to it twice in a row. To this day I cannot listen to it all the way through. It peters out immediately after Stevie’s vocal. What in tarnation happened?

[jobeterob]

A nice song - like I Guess I’ll Miss the Man - no hooks - I don’t know how people in the business expected songs like that to be a hit

[reese]

I like it a lot. Four of Motown's legends on the same recording. I think all of them put in a great performance.

But I only heard it on the radio once. I don't recall any promo for it. Plus it was rather expensive for a 45 with only one vocal backed with an instrumental. Because it was red heart-shaped vinyl, it cost more. I remember paying $4.19 before tax.

Maybe it might have done a bit better if more people knew who "Pops" was. I recall reading that it received a Father's Day Song of the Year award or something like that. But really, how many Father's Day songs are there to begin with?

[jobeterob]

I like it a lot. Four of Motown legends on the same recording. I think all of them put in a great performance.

But I only heard it on the radio once. I don't recall any promo for it. Plus it was rather expensive for a 45 with only one vocal backed with an instrumental. Because it was red heart-shaped vinyl, it cost more. I remember paying $4.19 before tax.

Maybe it might have done a bit better if more people knew who "Pops" was. I recall reading that it received a Father's Day Song of the Year award or something like that. But really, how many Father's Day songs are there to begin with?

The cost would have been a real deterrent to success

[gman]

I remember seeing the 12" single all over the place...Red photo sleeve with 4 snap shots.

[BayouMotownMan]

I have to disagree with some opinions here, I was a DJ during this period and Pops We Love You was highly promoted by Motown. In the beginning at least. It got off to a big start and then petered out.

I love the song, especially the instrumental B side. But disco was the rage and the song just wasn't danceable. Motown tried to remedy this by putting out a sped-up 12 inch but by this time the song was dying.

Like many have said on here, it was a mystery who Pops was. Not many people refer to their dad this way.

I love almost everything Pam Sawyer and Marilyn McLeod did, but this time besides writing the song, they produced it. There seems to be some mixing issues on the original 45 rpm track. Also that spoken dialogue Diana did on the original release to radio and the public was so hokey that it was almost laughable. Future mixes, and there were many, omitted this.

In summary, when compared to song hits of that period, KC and the Sunshine Band, the Bee Gees, Earth, Wind & Fire and the Commodores, this song just wasn't as commercial.

[DWSheffer]

I have in my collection the Pops promotional card sent to DJ's, not often seen today.
Darin

20970

20971

[Boogiedown]

.

I love the song, especially the instrumental B side.


Hard to fathom putting out a record featuring for the first time ever these powerhouses: Smokey , Stevie , Diana and Marvin !!! ... and the more appealing side [although not by much] is the instrumental B side that completely removes them !!!! :p:p ....

No matter what wiki says .....[that only Stevie wasn't present], there's no way this sounds like they are gathered and singing together....[ about as much as they were for that group photo for the LP cover].

the telltale being that forced insert of Diana barking at Smokey trying to wake him to put some kinda spark into it.

But the concept makes perfect sense ...

....nothing captures the sentiment of I LOVE YOU [ toward a ninety year old man] quite like a disco record ....:rolleyes:

[vgalindo]

I like it a lot. Four of Motown's legends on the same recording. I think all of them put in a great performance.

But I only heard it on the radio once. I don't recall any promo for it. Plus it was rather expensive for a 45 with only one vocal backed with an instrumental. Because it was red heart-shaped vinyl, it cost more. I remember paying $4.19 before tax.

Maybe it might have done a bit better if more people knew who "Pops" was. I recall reading that it received a Father's Day Song of the Year award or something like that. But really, how many Father's Day songs are there to begin with?
I have the red shaped vinyl. I also have the regular black vinyl 45. It was released on both.

[Ollie9]

I remember being super excited when I heard about this record, then the complete and utter disappointment when I heard it.
Everyone on it sounds on top form, but it really is rather weak. It received shed loads of airplay here in the UK, but it was only ever the diehard fans who were ever likely to buy it.

[reese]

I have the red shaped vinyl. I also have the regular black vinyl 45. It was released on both.

I first saw and bought the heart-shaped red vinyl. Many years later, I bought the regular 45, the 12", as well as the promo green vinyl 45.

I also bought POPS WE LOVE YOU...The Album because I thought it might have been heart-shaped red vinyl as well. It wasn't. :D

[copley]

I was given the album. It's still not unwrapped!

[sup_fan]

it's just too much of a novelty to be a serious record. "pops" is just too colloquial of a term and the song didn't have near the sincerity of Part of You or Turn Around or frankly just about any of the tunes for the To The Baby project

i think the idea of a loving song paying tribute to a dad is a wonderful idea. but just not here

[reese]

it's just too much of a novelty to be a serious record. "pops" is just too colloquial of a term and the song didn't have near the sincerity of Part of You or Turn Around or frankly just about any of the tunes for the To The Baby project

i think the idea of a loving song paying tribute to a dad is a wonderful idea. but just not here

Maybe if they had waited to release it closer to Father's Day it might have gotten more attention. But POPS... was released in December of 1978, and Father's Day wouldn't come until the following June.

From reading BayouMotownMan's post, it does sound as if Motown did some promo for it. But as a kid back then, promo to me meant seeing an ad in Jet or Ebony or Black Stars. Or seeing an appearance on Soul Train or Mike Douglas. I saw none of those things for this record. The only ad I saw was when the album was released and one of my local record stores included it in an ad for new releases.

[sansradio]

Maybe if they had waited to release it closer to Father's Day it might have gotten more attention. But POPS... was released in December of 1978, and Father's Day wouldn't come until the following June.

From reading BayouMotownMan's post, it does sound as if Motown did some promo for it. But as a kid back then, promo to me meant seeing an ad in Jet or Ebony or Black Stars. Or seeing an appearance on Soul Train or Mike Douglas. I saw none of those things for this record. The only ad I saw was when the album was released and one of my local record stores included it in an ad for new releases.

I recall a tiny blurb about it in Right On!​ accompanied by the sketch of the four.

[reese]

I recall a tiny blurb about it in Right On!​ accompanied by the sketch of the four.

I think I saw that and that's where it mentioned it had received an honor as being "Father's Day" Song of the Year or something along those lines.

20972

[Boogiedown]

Hey Smokey I want to put together an album centered on Pops. You got anything to contribute?

"Yes I have just the song to commemorate your dad ."


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WtpRIgnAylw


Great ! per-fecttttt.;)

[marybrewster]

Four of the biggest recording artists of the 70's.

And this is the result.

Woof.

[Circa 1824]

The last 30 seconds is unlistenable with each artist repeating and shouting “we love you” over and over. A serious lack of production/arranging skill and quality.

The record as it is should have been given privately to Pops and never released to the public. That may have been the original intention much like The Supremes honoring Berry with We Couldn’t Have Made it Without You.

[Boogiedown]

The last 30 seconds is unlistenable with each artist repeating and shouting “we love you” over and over. A serious lack of production/arranging skill and quality.

The record as it is should have been given privately to Pops and never released to the public. That may have been the original intention much like The Supremes honoring Berry with We Couldn’t Have Made it Without You.

I think you are on to something. And I'm wondering if this wasn't first conceived as a song to celebrate Berry Sr. 90th birthday...its certainly written as if addressed to him in the present , and not about him posthumously.

Would Pam Sawyer and Marilyn McLeod even have spent much time in Sr's presence, ....they came along when he would've been in his eighties. Their generic descriptions for him seem to suggest not.
Yes
those repetitive lyrics . Saying "love you" twice in a row doesn't make the lyric twice as good ... or if so would repeating it three times make it even better?


you're so good, you're so kind , you're so real, you're so fine...

.... just think people collected money for writing that !!:p

[Spreadinglove21]

Maybe it was conceived to be just a private recording, but given the names on it, Motown thought it would be a can't miss hit and issued it? Only to be severely let down.

[Philles/Motown Gary]

I originally bought the red heart-shaped 45 as well as the "Pops We Love You -- The Album" on vinyl. Got the Pop version and the Disco version on CD. If memory serves, I liked one version better than the other. I think the Pop version was the lesser evil of the two, although they're both weak and disappointing. Dare I say annoying?

[Ollie9]

I think you are on to something. And I'm wondering if this wasn't first conceived as a song to celebrate Berry Sr. 90th birthday...its certainly written as if addressed to him in the present , and not about him posthumously.

Would Pam Sawyer and Marilyn McLeod even have spent much time in Sr's presence, ....they came along when he would've been in his eighties. Their generic descriptions for him seem to suggest not.
Yes
those repetitive lyrics . Saying "love you" twice in a row doesn't make the lyric twice as good ... or if so would repeating it three times make it even better?


you're so good, you're so kind , you're so real, you're so fine...

.... just think people collected money for writing that !!:p

I’m sure i remember reading that it was originally recorded to celebrate his birthday.
As pops appeared to be such a well loved, highly thought of guy, it’s rather surprising BG didn’t ask either Stevie, Smokey or Marvin to help write such a personal and intimate message song to his father. As it stands, it kinda sounds like Diana had complete control. lol. :rolleyes:

[Spreadinglove21]

Frank Wilson was the producer of this. Did he ever produce any Diana Ross solo tracks?

[BayouMotownMan]

Frank Wilson was the producer of this. Did he ever produce any Diana Ross solo tracks?

Frank Wilson had nothing to do with this and had already left Motown by the time this was issued. Sawyer & McLeod produced this.

[Boogiedown]

Yes Mel Bolton was the arranger . His list of duds [non-blockbusters to put it more kindly] is rather extensive.

[Boogiedown]

I’m sure i remember reading that it was originally recorded to celebrate his birthday.
As pops appeared to be such a well loved, highly thought of guy, it’s rather surprising BG didn’t ask either Stevie, Smokey or Marvin to help write such a personal and intimate message song to his father. As it stands, it kinda sounds like Diana had complete control. lol. :rolleyes:
found this when reading closer in wiki :
this is how Billboard reported it at the time:

"Billboard [[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Billboard_[[magazine)) listed the single in its Top Single Picks, meaning that the magazine predicted that the single would reach the top 30 on the Hot 100. The reviewer wrote,
"Outstanding vocal performances by these four premiere singers highlights this song written for Berry Gordy Sr.'s 90th birthday. However, rather the lyric content leaves something to be desired and takes away from the glittering vocals, especially Stevie Wonder's." [[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pops,_We_Love_You_[[A_Tribute_to_Father)#cite_note-1)"


as far as the [rambling, unconvincing, messy imo] vocals , what else would one expect him to say about the monumental lumping of these four well-known voices ?


[[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pops,_We_Love_You_[[A_Tribute_to_Father)#cite_note-1)

[RanRan79]

I think the song wasn't originally conceived as a single. At some point the struggling company thought "hey, why not?" in order to capitalize off the four biggest acts at the label. It's not a bad song, but I'm not at all surprised or puzzled at the fact that it didn't take off. I do think it was a mistake not issuing Diana and Marvin's duet on "Light" as a single.

Had Motown really been smart, after the big 4 cut "Pops", another song would have been commissioned for the four of them to do. With some time and effort, a Diana/Marvin/Stevie/Smokey duet could have been one of the biggest hits of the decade. But of course that was asking too much, that Motown go back to crafting hits.

[Boogiedown]

I think the song wasn't originally conceived as a single. At some point the struggling company thought "hey, why not?" in order to capitalize off the four biggest acts at the label. It's not a bad song, but I'm not at all surprised or puzzled at the fact that it didn't take off..

that these four : Motown's "four biggest acts", released it and it didn't take off defines it a bad song.

[in other words if failure under that circumstance doesn't define a stinker, I don't know what does]

[Spreadinglove21]

Frank Wilson had nothing to do with this and had already left Motown by the time this was issued. Sawyer & McLeod produced this.

Oh OK. I got that info from this youtube link, which appears to be Diana Ross' official Youtube page.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zQtgaf_UYgI


[[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zQtgaf_UYgI)AS for Pops We Love You, it's pleasant enough

[Boogiedown]

I love the song, especially the instrumental B side. But disco was the rage and the song just wasn't danceable. Motown tried to remedy this by putting out a sped-up 12 inch but by this time the song was dying.




Let's do a tribute to Pops and ... let's make it disco ....:confused:...

I think its danceable, but it doesn't have that draws-one-to-the-floor oomph. This is sort of "Quiet Storm" type disco ...where the amping up part is achieved by featuring a piccolo.

The intro really draws me in, almost expect to hear Barry White. The marching bass though is a little mundane. Nice piano, guitars, strings.


Maybe this instrumental version should have been the single ....like LOVES THEME .....just feel the love instead of saying it eighty times...


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4TGitb8-jrs

Here's yet another example of how Motown never fully grasped the whole disco thing ....they extended the vocal side for a 12" pressing and backed it with a very smart instrumental b -side ....of which they didn't extend [!?] , so the DJs ignored it, can't be bothered with such a short record... ...too bad:



A six minute instrumental could've been good 2am sleaze ...

[marybrewster]

Pops Gordy was born on July 10, 1888 and died on November 21, 1978.

POPS WE LOVE YOU was recorded in the spring of 1978 to honor Pops 90th birthday.

I'd bet anything that this wasn't originally intended for release. But after his death, it was quickly pressed as a single and released two weeks later December 8, 1978

[RanRan79]

I'd bet anything that this wasn't originally intended for release. But after his death, it was quickly pressed as a single and released two weeks later December 8, 1978

Yup. But it was a quick money grab without any real thought. Why no one thought to take the four biggest single artists at the company and make a real record...well like I said before, that would have been too much like right.

[Ollie9]

I think it was the wording “pops” that helped kill the song. It’s certainly not used much in the UK, sounding a little close to Walton’s Mountain for mass acceptance perhaps.

[Boogiedown]

To be fair,
this record must have increased in meaning ten-fold for Berry Gordy with the loss of his father right at the time of this production. Nothing would have thrilled him more and help him get through it, than to see this song about his Pops become a public favorite. What a meaningful tribute that would be as a last gesture toward his Dad.

Wanting to please and impress his dad was apparently something Berry fed from. He tells in his autobiography how he was selling .... I think it was pots and pans .... door-to-door and he was doing so well at it, he invited his dad along to watch him in action. They went to some old guy's house and left with a contract. Berry Sr. surprised Berry Jr. when instead of patting him on the back, he was bothered that Berry so willingly took this guy's hard-earned money for something he didn't really need.

I think with Berry Sr. looking over his shoulder and being so hands on with the company, it gave Berry Jr. motivation and guidance. His dad was there witnessing it all and that energized Berry.

I suspect with his Dad's passing, that perhaps even more than Diana's debilitating face-slap, it hit Berry hard, marking the end of an incredible era for him so that it all became a little less meaningful for him after that.

Releasing POPS probably helped Berry work through this tough time and maybe it was the last release from Motown that Berry even cared about.

[midnightman]

With the song's subject matter, why are we surprised it didn't work? :confused:

Plus it wasn't like, besides Stevie and Marvin [[up until that time, I think Here, My Dear had dropped months before), it wasn't like Smokey or Diana could push it up any further [[Smokey went a long four years without a top 40 hit record when Pops dropped and this is right before Cruisin' came out).

Plus it was a very personal thing for Berry [[I mean it's about his father) so he probably wasn't focused on its commercial sales.

[Boogiedown]

I wonder if when Berry Jr. turned 90, he noticed he didn't get anything close to the affectionate love serenade his dad was accorded from the remaining 3 grateful hot shots .....


could've been a pretty cool gesture .....

[RanRan79]

Plus it was a very personal thing for Berry [[I mean it's about his father) so he probably wasn't focused on its commercial sales.

I disagree. It was personal when it was recorded and presented to Pops for his birthday. The minute the decision was made to release it as a single meant it was back to business, and thusly the point was commercial sales.

At this point Motown was struggling. The prolific hit releases with hot artists was in the rearview mirror. There also didn't seem to be anyone in charge who had the ingenuity that once seemed abundant in the 60s, including Berry himself. Releasing "Pops" was a lazy attempt to cash in on the four artists themselves. Sixties Gordy would not have made this mistake, which is why "We Couldn't Get Along Without You" and probably "Aint No Place Like Motown" never hit the street.

Like I said before, a bright idea would have been hearing those four voices together and figuring "This is cool for Pops' birthday. But you know what would be cool for Motown? Getting these four on a super hot song!" Between Stevie, Smokey and Marvin, you had three extremely talented writers and producers. That they weren't charged with coming up with something hot for themselves with Diana is a travesty. Forever, the only song these four musical royalty members would be on together is freakin "Pops We Love You". Sad.

[sup_fan]

this brings up a curious question - what was motown leadership absorbed with during this time?!?

Gordy had pretty much 0 involvement with The Wiz. so while that kept diana busy, it didn't occupy his time.

you had the Commodores doing big things. in April 78 Rick James had his big first release. High Inergy had their first hit in 77 and then some action in 78. marvin did the live lp and Got To Give It Up in 77 but then the snoozer Here My Dear in 78.

Stevie was wrapped up with the Secret Plants project, diana didn't have anything but Ross 78. nothing much from Smokey. the Sups, J5 and Temptations were all gone.

there was just such a lack of major things going on

[midnightman]

You know what I just realized: all four of them weren't really thriving in 1978.

Marvin dropped Here, My Dear, which was his first massive flop in quite some time.
Stevie was doing the Secret Plants album and wasn't active on the charts as he had been when SITKOL was out.
Smokey Robinson hadn't had a hit since Quiet Storm and Baby That's Backatcha.
Diana had a terrible 1978 chart wise [[none of her singles released that year reached the top 40 on the Hot 100, her album Ross was a big flop [[performed worse than HMD... HMD hit number 26 on the BB200, Ross only reached 49) and of course THE WIZ).

So when you put it in that perspective, the song was doomed to fail. It was a bad decision to release it and it just made their chart fortunes even more of a mess than it already was. As was said, Motown was brewing with activity from its newer acts like the Commodores and Rick James was making his debut that year.

[TheMotownManiac]

I think it’s the worst record I have ever heard coming out of Motown. It sounds to me like a song that was given an F in songwriting 101. Motown’s four greatest voices and this is what they come up with? I think they are the most cloying, cringe worthy lyrics I have ever heard ever. I will put I want a guy OnRepeat before I would listen to this again.

[captainjames]

They should have let Berry and his sisters sing it.

[Circa 1824]

I think it’s the worst record I have ever heard coming out of Motown.

Yes, horrible record that has awesome vocals. Go figure ……

[RanRan79]

You know what I just realized: all four of them weren't really thriving in 1978.

Marvin dropped Here, My Dear, which was his first massive flop in quite some time.
Stevie was doing the Secret Plants album and wasn't active on the charts as he had been when SITKOL was out.
Smokey Robinson hadn't had a hit since Quiet Storm and Baby That's Backatcha.
Diana had a terrible 1978 chart wise [[none of her singles released that year reached the top 40 on the Hot 100, her album Ross was a big flop [[performed worse than HMD... HMD hit number 26 on the BB200, Ross only reached 49) and of course THE WIZ).

So when you put it in that perspective, the song was doomed to fail. It was a bad decision to release it and it just made their chart fortunes even more of a mess than it already was. As was said, Motown was brewing with activity from its newer acts like the Commodores and Rick James was making his debut that year.

But they weren't the reason it was doomed to fail. It was the song itself. Lol The track is nice enough, but the song is so sentimental...honestly, Motown- Gordy- sold out by releasing it. It was a love song to Pops and it never should have been used to cash in on.

The four singers were in a somewhat slump. Really this is the first Marvin had been there and the first Stevie had been there. Diana and Smokey had been spotty for years. And after this, all four of them rebounded...well Marvin mostly rebounded a few years later, but Smokey, Diana and Stevie would quickly get it back together. So in my mind, at this point in 1978, you take these four singers and give them the best that you got...easy major hit.

[RanRan79]

I think it’s the worst record I have ever heard coming out of Motown. It sounds to me like a song that was given an F in songwriting 101. Motown’s four greatest voices and this is what they come up with? I think they are the most cloying, cringe worthy lyrics I have ever heard ever. I will put I want a guy OnRepeat before I would listen to this again.

IMO there are much worst songs that can be found in the Motown catalog than "Pops". Take away the fact that it never should have been a single, I think the lyrics are beautiful, sung to a man that meant so much to his family and the Motown family in general. We should all be so lucky to be gifted a song such as this by those who mean the most.

[Boogiedown]

Motown threw a lot of money at this. custom picture sleeves, colored vinyl, 45 and 12" pressings, heart shaped vinyl, international releases...contrived accompanying LP.... nothing held back ...



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[jobeterob]

I’ve never really bought into a lot of the conspiracy type thinking about Motown not promoting certain artists or groups. I think they promoted records that caught on and groups that caught on and were on a roll. When you had a run of hits for a while you inevitably hit a dry time. When groups members and management get tired, sick, start disagreeing and not cooperating with the record company, the record company pulls back.

Record companies make mistakes. Thinking that Pops would be a hit because they had 4 major artists on it was a mistake; the song is nice but it’s not even a good choice for a single, There are plenty of other collaborations that didn’t do that well,

We are also seeing this decades after the fact. Looking back, Love Is Like An Itching and Come See About Me are better songs than Baby Love. But in 1964, the first “ooh” in Baby Love sent a lot of white listeners into orbit and introduced them to a new kind of music.

When time put the Supremes on their cover in 1965 or 1966, they labelled it Rock and Roll which also probably wouldn’t happen anymore.

[sup_fan]

I’ve never really bought into a lot of the conspiracy type thinking about Motown not promoting certain artists or groups. I think they promoted records that caught on and groups that caught on and were on a roll. When you had a run of hits for a while you inevitably hit a dry time. When groups members and management get tired, sick, start disagreeing and not cooperating with the record company, the record company pulls back.

Record companies make mistakes. Thinking that Pops would be a hit because they had 4 major artists on it was a mistake; the song is nice but it’s not even a good choice for a single, There are plenty of other collaborations that didn’t do that well,

We are also seeing this decades after the fact. Looking back, Love Is Like An Itching and Come See About Me are better songs than Baby Love. But in 1964, the first “ooh” in Baby Love sent a lot of white listeners into orbit and introduced them to a new kind of music.

When time put the Supremes on their cover in 1965 or 1966, they labelled it Rock and Roll which also probably wouldn’t happen anymore.

but motown wasn't a publicly traded company that was beholden to sharesholders. it was Berry Gordy's kingdom and so absolutely personal feelings could leak in. some fans have discussed truly vindictive actions by motown and berry. supposedly Nathan Jones and Walking were both actively de-prioritized by motown in favor of Reach out I'll be There and Love Hangover for Diana. in regards to NJ, you could argue that they made the wrong decision since the Sups in 70 and into 71 were outselling Diana. so from a financial perspective, the bet should have been on the sups. but with LH, you had the chance for a mega hit with an artist that had a recent trackrecord of hits versus the unknown with the Sups.

but look at David Ruffin, Eddie, Martha, and many others. i don't think most of these are due to 1 point of conflict with Berry but rather a culmination. and one that is often associated with drugs or addiction. Martha was never going to be "DIANA ROSS" in berry's eyes but once she got tied up with drugs, he was pretty much through with her. David was a phenomenal singer but his ego and problems with the Temps, his unruly public behavior and drugs were already a major issue. but then when he tried to leave motown and went to the press, his coffin was sealed.

[Boogiedown]

The fact that Berry Gordy has identified himself as Berry Gordy Jr. his entire life is his way of saying something.