diana regular or Chic mix ?

[Albator]

A common view outside Diana's fandom is that the original Diana Mix is soooo much better than the actual record.


The subtext is probably "Diana Ross can only do wrong". By the way some in the fandom are on the same wavelength on a regular basis.


When the Chic MIX came out I hated it, but give it another try, again and again and now I'm more nuanced except that the hits are ruined on it. I mean "upside down, coming out, My old piano".


I'v found this very interesting opinion on a web site.

https://daily.redbullmusicacademy.com/2014/10/chic-in-the-80s


"Edwards and Rodgers’ original mix was finally released as part of Diana’s “Deluxe Edition” in 2003, and no wonder Motown balked: It’s a defiant left turn for both artist and producers, Ross sounding husky and defiant, the instrumental tracks heavy on solos, the whole thing weirdly aggressive. If anything, Motown’s official version – Diana’s singing metronomic, the arrangements streamlined – sounds more like classic Chic than the record Chic actually made, which sounded as if Bernard and Nile had elected not to release “Le Freak” but its original draft, “Ahh, Fuck Off!” "

[sup_fan]

out of all of the alt versions of albums, this is certainly the most divergent between cancelled and released.

I don't dislike the original chic mixes, like the reviewer seems to have. But i do agree that pretty much every track on the released version is better and was the wiser choice to use.

the vocal takes are fascinating to listen to. makes me think about the alt version of You Can't Hurry Love where she flubs the line but kept on singing. ignoring the error, the overall vocal was more aggressive than the released one. and I would bet that even if she had NOT screwed up the line, motown would still have gone with the version we all know and love today.

some vocalists have created a sound and style that is that more aggressive singing. but much of motown and especially the Sups/DR were more middle of the road. so i think it was right that the more assertive takes for diana 80 were probably not the right ones for release

[Boogiedown]

MY OLD PIANO
as Chic wanted it:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VpbqAfz0ATI

released version:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dxFmU3_VlQM


either way, fun and whimsical ....

[Albator]

Is "tenderness" overlooked? In both version I think it's a terrific song, unusual lyrics and her performance is stunning - Same with "now that you'r gone"

[Levi Stubbs Tears]

I think the original Chic mix should have been used on the album, but the remixes were fine - possibly better - as singles.

[Boogiedown]

Is "tenderness" overlooked? In both version I think it's a terrific song, unusual lyrics and her performance is stunning - Same with "now that you'r gone"

CHIC's preferred version


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N3f4bO78D88

Diana's remix


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NusCcgX4ibw

Tenderness is a mess. I confess, not her best

[Ollie9]

The subtext is probably "Diana Ross can only do wrong". By the way some in the fandom are on the same wavelength on a regular basis.
"

Much the same way that Mary can do no right being consumed by jealously and all that.
I think the Terrana mixes far superior in every way, with the exception of “Tenderness” and “Friend To Friend” where for me the shimmering Chic versions just pip the remixes.

[sup_fan]

Much the same way that Mary can do no right being consumed by jealously and all that.
I think the Terrana mixes far superior in every way, with the exception of “Tenderness” and “Friend To Friend” where for me the shimmering Chic versions just pip the remixes.

both of these songs are my least favorite of the album so i've not really compared them as closely as the others. You might have a point - that the original versions of these two could have added a little spice and variety to the lp if they'd been left as is

[jobeterob]

For me, the Chic mixes were weak and would not have been hits.

Besides Upside Down and I’m Coming Out, the classic songs were My Old Piano, Give Up, and Now That You’re Gone.

I forgot Friend to Friend was on the album.

[Boogiedown]

Is "tenderness" overlooked? In both version I think it's a terrific song, unusual lyrics and her performance is stunning - Same with "now that you'r gone"

NOW THAT YOU'RE GONE

Chic:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4WUQ896OQEM


Improved:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rH1hZ00qinw


So I don't hear much difference, I do like that Diana is present in the long intro in her redo version by including her grunts ... or whatever the term is for her audibles. Surprised the odd tape manipulation was left in at 3:33 seems most out of place. Chic's crash ending is kind of edgy , jolting, I prefer it ....I was ready for something to break the overall lulling quality .


This cut is amongst the better half of the album's sum total imo, although after six listens, it gets redundant, I've had enough ....for awhile.

[daviddh]

i really like the Chic version of Friend to Friend. i need to listen to the album again, but mostly i like the version that was released.
always thought Give up was a lost hit

[Ollie9]

NOW THAT YOU'RE GONE

Chic:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4WUQ896OQEM


Improved:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rH1hZ00qinw


So I don't hear much difference, I do like that Diana is present in the long intro in her redo version by including her grunts ... or whatever the term is for her audibles. Surprised the odd tape manipulation was left in at 3:33 seems most out of place. Chic's crash ending is kind of edgy , jolting, I prefer it ....I was ready for something to break the overall lulling quality .


This cut is amongst the better half of the album's sum total imo, although after six listens, it gets redundant, I've had enough ....for awhile.

I think the Terrana remix far superior, being tighter and brighter then the Chic original.
I understand why they had to release “Its’s My Turn”, but wish they could have kept going and released this or “Have Fun” as one last single.

[ejluther]

The CHIC mixes use the takes where they just handed the lyrics to Diana and said, “Go!” with no rehearsals, right? At last that’s the story I remember hearing but I’ve always wondered if that was apocryphal - I mean she must have at least heard the instrumental tracks first, right? Or perhaps I’m misremembering it?

[sup_fan]

The CHIC mixes use the takes where they just handed the lyrics to Diana and said, “Go!” with no rehearsals, right? At last that’s the story I remember hearing but I’ve always wondered if that was apocryphal - I mean she must have at least heard the instrumental tracks first, right? Or perhaps I’m misremembering it?

while i think it's common to do a demo recording, to just sort of explore and run through things, i don't know that the chic mixes are that. I've not heard that they used those

[sup_fan]

I think the Terrana remix far superior, being tighter and brighter then the Chic original.
I understand why they had to release “Its’s My Turn”, but wish they could have kept going and released this or “Have Fun” as one last single.

the UK got a top 10 hit with My Old Piano. I think it's a bit too odd of lyric but that's just my opinion. Now That You're Gone is a sensational song. it might have done well as a single. i agree with they had to move onto IMT and then of course Endless Love. by later in 81, all significant interest in pulling out another hit from this album was gone. it's time had come and gone. plus her new RCA album was out and that was a fresh set of tunes. I know some fans weren't thrilled with WDFFIL and the lp. i don't think the lp is cutting edge but i do fine it enjoyable and commercial. I do to think Mirror Mirror is a very strong song and very current and fresh. wish that sound and approach had found it's way into more of the tunes and feel of the album

[Albator]

Compared to the other songs on "diana" I find MOP" a little bit corny.
Anyway It surprises me that she never sang it live.
In fact it's really weird that she only did "Upside down" and "Have fun" live wether she went to perform 5 songs from The Boss.

[khansperac]

IMO the lyrics of “My old piano” are brilliant. Very clever.

[Ollie9]

Compared to the other songs on "diana" I find MOP" a little bit corny.
Anyway It surprises me that she never sang it live.

I agree that compared to the vibe of the other songs it does sound rather cheesy. Given its chart success in the UK, i would have thought it a natural when she performed on these shores. Perhaps she also thought the lyrics a bit to daft sounding.

[Ollie9]

the UK got a top 10 hit with My Old Piano. I think it's a bit too odd of lyric but that's just my opinion. Now That You're Gone is a sensational song. it might have done well as a single. i agree with they had to move onto IMT and then of course Endless Love. by later in 81, all significant interest in pulling out another hit from this album was gone. it's time had come and gone. plus her new RCA album was out and that was a fresh set of tunes. I know some fans weren't thrilled with WDFFIL and the lp. i don't think the lp is cutting edge but i do fine it enjoyable and commercial. I do to think Mirror Mirror is a very strong song and very current and fresh. wish that sound and approach had found it's way into more of the tunes and feel of the album

The song kind of veers towards sexual obsession with a musical instrument. I must confess that after hearing it, i came to view the piano in quite a different way altogether. Another thread entirely lol.
The leap from contemporary vibe of “diana to 50’s retreads such as “WDFFIL” was hugely disappointing to say the least.
I agree that without “Mirror” and probably “Work That Body” the album would have been dullsville in the extreme. Like you, i wish she had continued the vibe of the contemporary sounding “Mirror Mirror” for the rest of the album. Dime a dozen bullshit such as “Two Can Make It” just didn’t cut the mustard.

[Albator]

Here is what Nile says about MOP

"Bernard and I talked endlessly with her, went to her apartment to see who this woman was. Once we met her and became friends, she started to reveal things about herself that no one knew. No one understood that she was driven, complex and intellectual. When I went to her apartment and saw the grand piano, I didn't know if she played it or not, and I didn't care, Feeling it in the space makes you know something else about a person. So I was writing based on compiling Diana Ross information."

The booklet interviews are very interesting to read, especially Nile. He may tell the story putting himself in a good light, but what he has to say about Diana as a singer is pretty valid.

Her appeal for retro songs, is something I don't get. She is a far more interesting singer when she does what is current or even avant-guard than when she reaches back.

[sup_fan]

IMO the lyrics of “My old piano” are brilliant. Very clever.

while not my fav song, i think the lyric is clever. but what was cheesy was the video with Diana bouncing around an actual piano. where there even any men in the video? i think if a sexy man like Billie Dee was PLAYING the piano and diana was singing to him, it might have worked. Billie has an 88-key smile!

[sup_fan]

The song kind of veers towards sexual obsession with a musical instrument. I must confess that after hearing it, i came to view the piano in quite a different way altogether. Another thread entirely lol.
The leap from contemporary vibe of “diana to 50’s retreads such as “WDFFIL” was hugely disappointing to say the least.
I agree that without “Mirror” and probably “Work That Body” the album would have been dullsville in the extreme. Like you, i wish she had continued the vibe of the contemporary sounding “Mirror Mirror” for the rest of the album. Dime a dozen bullshit such as “Two Can Make It” just didn’t cut the mustard.

i think Work is a pretty silly song but the track is hot. had it had better lyrics and a non-aerobic theme, it would have been a very sexy hot number. i think Sweet Surrender is another good one.

one songs i think hold up well are It's Never Too Late and Think I'm in Love. With the title track being an oldie and the campy Work That Body, Sweet Nothings is redundant. but if they weren't present, i think 1 campy number would be ok.

Endless Love is ghastly. one of the worst things ever waxed by Diana Ross, including all of the tracks on Meet The Sups. Two Can Make It is pretty weak. not terrible but could certainly have been replaced with a better tune

[sup_fan]

Her appeal for retro songs, is something I don't get. She is a far more interesting singer when she does what is current or even avant-guard than when she reaches back.

i agree and I'd also lump into that her "oozy, feel-good, Oprah swaying back and forth" song

Take Me higher
force behind the power
he lives in you
one shining moment
let's make every moment count [[on Forever)
It's a wonderful life [[Forever)
The best years of my life [[forever)

these are the smarmy songs she'd sing on the Oprah show and Oprah would be caught up in the moment, eyes half closed in ecstasy, arms up in the air, swaying back and forth

[rovereab]

I think the Motown mix sounds brighter than the Chic mix. The Chic mix of Upside Down sounds mushy in comparison to the Motown mix. I think the Chic mix of Friend To Friend is very good though.

David Bowie's Let's Dance album compares well to the Motown mix in that there is a clear Chic influence but it doesn't sound like a Chic/Sister Sledge album. The Motown mix is Diana with some great Chic guitar work, snappy vocals and an uplifting vibe. MOP in its Chic mix form drags along to me in comparison, is it running a touch slower than the Motown mix?

An all time classic album for me!

[sup_fan]

I think the Motown mix sounds brighter than the Chic mix. The Chic mix of Upside Down sounds mushy in comparison to the Motown mix. I think the Chic mix of Friend To Friend is very good though.

David Bowie's Let's Dance album compares well to the Motown mix in that there is a clear Chic influence but it doesn't sound like a Chic/Sister Sledge album. The Motown mix is Diana with some great Chic guitar work, snappy vocals and an uplifting vibe. MOP in its Chic mix form drags along to me in comparison, is it running a touch slower than the Motown mix?

An all time classic album for me!

i'm not sure i'll describe it right but the Chic mixes are denser, sort of "thicker". there's added echo or a little bit of reverb. the released versions are more clear, pop more.

[Boogiedown]

Much the same way that Mary can do no right being consumed by jealously and all that.
I think the Terrana mixes far superior in every way, with the exception of “Tenderness” and “Friend To Friend” where for me the shimmering Chic versions just pip the remixes.

chic's

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iP0eSweUTrs

shimmering is a good word

diana's

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H4mz-d_iQkQ


sounds like something from LADY SINGS .....boozy

[Boogiedown]

Here is what Nile says about MOP

"Bernard and I talked endlessly with her, went to her apartment to see who this woman was. Once we met her and became friends, she started to reveal things about herself that no one knew. No one understood that she was driven, complex and intellectual. When I went to her apartment and saw the grand piano, I didn't know if she played it or not, and I didn't care, Feeling it in the space makes you know something else about a person. So I was writing based on compiling Diana Ross information."

The booklet interviews are very interesting to read, especially Nile. He may tell the story .

So was this filmed at her apartment?? She sure likes parlor palms ...


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2ykMkMrBaf8

I'd always pictured an old well-used upright piano ... one you bang out ragtime on .....I wonder why the lyric isn't, "love is like, my grand piano" ...

[Ollie9]

chic's

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iP0eSweUTrs

shimmering is a good word

diana's

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H4mz-d_iQkQ


sounds like something from LADY SINGS .....boozy

The irresistible voice of Diana Ross. I find the Chic version that little bit more interesting, but only just.

[ejluther]

while i think it's common to do a demo recording, to just sort of explore and run through things, i don't know that the chic mixes are that. I've not heard that they used those
Oh, I don't mean the instrumental tracks were demos, just that what they wanted from Diana was spontaneous and unrehearsed vocals, hence giving her basically one take with no rehearsal...again, I may be misinformed/misremembering...

As for which mixes I prefer, my heart belongs to the ones I've known all these years but the Chic mixes definitely have their own impact and charm...

[Levi Stubbs Tears]

So was this filmed at her apartment?? She sure likes parlor palms ...



Bluebrock knows more about it, but I think it was filmed in London when her UK record company asked her to film a video to support their release of MOP. I think he might have said it was filmed at a hotel.

It was a bit of a cheap production but helped to promote the song in the UK & Australia where it did well. The lack of proper videos for Upside Down & I'm Coming Out meant those releases probably didn't do quite as well as they might in many countries.

[Albator]

The irresistible voice of Diana Ross. I find the Chic version that little bit more interesting, but only just.
It is.
The original diana rendition may be more emotional but after repeated listening it becomes uninteresting. The Chic version is more musical with it's cold atmosphere.

[Ollie9]

Oh, I don't mean the instrumental tracks were demos, just that what they wanted from Diana was spontaneous and unrehearsed vocals, hence giving her basically one take with no rehearsal...again, I may be misinformed/misremembering...

As for which mixes I prefer, my heart belongs to the ones I've known all these years but the Chic mixes definitely have their own impact and charm...

Interesting point. Diana’s vocals on the original Chic mixes sounding far looser and almost demo like in places. On the Terrana mixes her vocals are more clipped, sounding tighter and more polished in comparison.

[rovereab]

Interesting point. Diana’s vocals on the original Chic mixes sounding far looser and almost demo like in places. On the Terrana mixes her vocals are more clipped, sounding tighter and more polished in comparison.

Her singing on the Chic mix of MOP sounds as it she is thoroughly disinterested as none of her usual sparkle shines through. Perhaps it's a demo vocal?

[Ollie9]

Her singing on the Chic mix of MOP sounds as it she is thoroughly disinterested as none of her usual sparkle shines through. Perhaps it's a demo vocal?

For me it’s more the mix then Diana’s actual vocal, with her voice sounding at odds with the production while not being supported properly.
Having the Chic mixes to compare and contrast makes you realise just what a fantastic job Russ Terrana did in remixing the album.
She should have asked him to try and breath some life into “WDFFIL”. Might have been interesting, especially if he could have added. “Who” And “Love Lies” instead of “Endless Love” And “Two Can Make It”.

[sup_fan]

I was listening to Guilty by Streisand and a little later Islands In The Stream came on too. made me think about Diana and her 1980 album and all. wondering if a Barry/Diana duet or having Diana duet with someone on Islands would have been a big hit. i'm sure they would have as these are top artists and songs.

but that got me thinking about diana 80. has Rodgers or Edwards ever really sung on their songs? sure they might have joined in choruses with chic. but mostly it was the female vocalists singing. R and E are really known for their playing rather than singing [[guitar and bass respectively). So in a sense, diana 80 IS a duet. Diana is dueting not with a vocalist but with N and E and their playing. they aren't just session musicians but frankly soloists in their own right.

now i get it that these tunes weren't recorded really as a duet. it's not like diana was singing in the studio and her vocals inspired Niles to do a riff on the guitar and that his playing encouraged Diana to ad lib

[Albator]

To my ears, "Now that you'r gone", "tenderness" and "friend to friend" are almost the same and therefore I favour the Chic Mix that are more dance oriented.


In fact Nile is supposed to have told her she sounded flat !!! causing a storm exit and a break from the Star. This is acknowledged in the booklet by the way.
That's probably why she sounds more exuberant or gusty, like they say on the Chic mix.
It's probable that Russ used early performances to complete with the project.

[Ollie9]

To my ears, "Now that you'r gone", "tenderness" and "friend to friend" are almost the same and therefore I favour the Chic Mix that are more dance oriented.


In fact Nile is supposed to have told her she sounded flat !!! causing a storm exit and a break from the Star. This is acknowledged in the booklet by the way.
That's probably why she sounds more exuberant or gusty, like they say on the Chic mix.
It's probable that Russ used early performances to complete with the project.

She either re-recorded or they used different vocal takes on some of the songs. Personally I think N & B were trying to save face as the Terrana mixes were less about Chic and more Diana the singer.
I believe she told him that not even BG had the temerity to tell her that she was singing flat lol.
If “Telephone” was anything to go by, i so wish she had recorded a complete album with Bernard.

[Albator]

Interesting... In the end, Russ and Diana were more faithfull to the Chic style than Nile was with her.
Reading between the line what he says is basically he wanted to do the kind of album he wanted for him, protected by Diana's credibility.


But it doesn't matter, it's a great album anyway.


I also wish she did a whole album with Bernard. Her vocals on Telephone are stunning.


Swept Away is a great album when it comes to showcase all of her vocal styles.

[Ollie9]

Interesting... In the end, Russ and Diana were more faithfull to the Chic style than Nile was with her.
Reading between the line what he says is basically he wanted to do the kind of album he wanted for him, protected by Diana's credibility.


But it doesn't matter, it's a great album anyway.


I also wish she did a whole album with Bernard. Her vocals on Telephone are stunning.


Swept Away is a great album when it comes to showcase all of her vocal styles.

I disagree. On the Terrana mixes it’s Diana’s voice that takes centre stage as opposed to the guitar riffs.
I remember the “”Swept Away” album receiving a stinker of a review in Blues & Soul magazine, lamenting why she continued to make such terrible albums.
For me it contains three great songs in “Missing You” “Swept Away” and “Telephone”, with the rest decidedly average or bloody awful.

[Albator]

I disagree. On the Terrana mixes it’s Diana’s voice that takes centre stage as opposed to the guitar riffs.
I remember the “”Swept Away” album receiving a stinker of a review in Blues & Soul magazine, lamenting why she continued to make such terrible albums.
For me it contains three great songs in “Missing You” “Swept Away” and “Telephone”, with the rest decidedly average or bloody awful.Do you trust them to know what's good or bad? I don't, but Swept Away is still a great album that exposes all her vocal styles... As you say, "missing you", "swept" "telephone", I'll ad "all of you" for the kind of glossy pop she enjoys performing and maybe "touch by touch" a typical Diana performance.
The rest average or bloody awful as usual.

[Ollie9]

Do you trust them to know what's good or bad? I don't, but Swept Away is still a great album that exposes all her vocal styles... As you say, "missing you", "swept" "telephone", I'll ad "all of you" for the kind of glossy pop she enjoys performing and maybe "touch by touch" a typical Diana performance.
The rest average or bloody awful as usual.

The review of the album was by respected Motown author and historian Sharon Davis who had known and worked with Diana throughout her first tenure at Motown.
Rather sadly, four decent songs does not a great album make, with as you agree the rest being pretty average or downright awful.

[Levi Stubbs Tears]

Rather sadly, four decent songs does not a great album make

And four was about as good as it got for any of Diana's RCA albums.