Your Thoughts: Diana Ross .... & The Supremes ....RTL On The Today Show

[Boogiedown]

Live at The Rockefeller Plaza early in the morning in 2000.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SzwF9ICR-5o

Watcha think??

[Circa 1824]

Live at The Rockefeller Plaza early in the morning in 2000.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SzwF9ICR-5o

Watcha think??

Disaster
Embarrassing
Ugly

[reese]

I thought the various DSL tv appearances on TODAY and DIVAS LIVE were ok.

But I thought they really performed well on THE VIEW. It was very casual and they performed BABY LOVE, STOP!, and I WILL SURVIVE. It seemed like they had found a groove.

[milven]

I thought the various DSL tv appearances on TODAY and DIVAS LIVE were ok.

But I thought they really performed well on THE VIEW. It was very casual and they performed BABY LOVE, STOP!, and I WILL SURVIVE. It seemed like they had found a groove.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=43BPvfeasgs

[daviddh]

Sounded like the Supremes mics were turned down on Divas.
Will have Another listen

[marybrewster]

The problem with this incarnation of "The Supremes" is they had never worked together, and were thrust into a media frenzy and ambitious tour. As mentioned above, I think at some point they finally found somewhat of a groove. Diana, Scherrie, and Lynda are all great singers, but three great singers doesn't mean they'll blend well together.

[jobeterob]

Pretty good at replacing the Andantes

[jim aka jtigre99]

The missing component in the Supremes' sound is Mary. I was watching a video about HDH where she spoke of the harmony that the original trio had-Diana with the higher voice, Florence with the higher-mid sound and her with the mid-lower sound. Mary was also able to approximate a blend with Cindy in DRATS and with Jean and Scherrie. Mary seemed to have an uncanny knack of being able to blend the group together to have that Supremes sound.
I like the FLOs but they seemed to have always been three excellent singers without that special harmony. Scherrie and Lynda sound okay together, but something seems to be missing. Plus, Diana for some reason has always had the mikes turned down on the backgrounds since the DRATS days.
Still, the sound was missing a certain magic that the Supremes always seemed to have but that is not to say that Diana, Lynda and Scherrie are not amazing vocalists-they just didn't seem to gel together to give the Supremes sound.

[Boogiedown]

Pretty good at replacing the Andantes
Good point actually!
I honestly hadn’t observed this from the angle of how they sounded , I had thought they sounded fine , especially in these conditions. I was struck by this appearance for other reasons, the stage presence , the interactions, for example . The totality of the packaging.

[Boogiedown]

Oh , and the way the Supremes were treated.

[carlo]

I have always loved that mini-concert on the Today Show. Diana was full of energy, spinning around with her hot pink feather boa and then playfully mingling with the audience during Love Child, which she benchmarked with the most perfect and lady-like return to the stage, without stairs, at the 3:24 mark. The way she gets herself back on stage with her legs crossed, and then swiveling herself around, without missing a beat...I'm sure Ms Maxine Powell would have been proud. Lol.

[Boogiedown]

I have always loved that mini-concert on the Today Show. Diana was full of energy, spinning around with her hot pink feather boa and then playfully mingling with the audience during Love Child, which she benchmarked with the most perfect and lady-like return to the stage, without stairs, at the 3:24 mark. The way she gets herself back on stage with her legs crossed, and then swiveling herself around, without missing a beat...I'm sure Ms Maxine Powell would have been proud. Lol.

Great observation! The camera was right on her. She pulled it off brilliantly and yes, without missing a beat. Excellent observation Carlo, thanks for pointing it out.

[Ollie9]

which she benchmarked with the most perfect and lady-like return to the stage, without stairs, at the 3:24 mark. The way she gets herself back on stage with her legs crossed, and then swiveling herself around, without missing a beat...I'm sure Ms Maxine Powell would have been proud. Lol.

Not a glimpse of undergarments to be had. The groups time spent with Maxine certainly proved it’s weight in gold. ;)

[BayouMotownMan]

It's an ok appearance and an interesting combination in that we had three legit Supremes even though they had no history together. None were in the group at the same time.

All of this was to promote a tour that was ill-conceived and grossly over-priced.

[reese]

I have always loved that mini-concert on the Today Show. Diana was full of energy, spinning around with her hot pink feather boa and then playfully mingling with the audience during Love Child, which she benchmarked with the most perfect and lady-like return to the stage, without stairs, at the 3:24 mark. The way she gets herself back on stage with her legs crossed, and then swiveling herself around, without missing a beat...I'm sure Ms Maxine Powell would have been proud. Lol.

I think this moment ended up being highlighted on ACCESS HOLLYWOOD that evening.

[carlo]

I think this moment ended up being highlighted on ACCESS HOLLYWOOD that evening.

I didn't know that, Reese...thanks for mentioning it :)

[Boogiedown]

Diana Ross .............................& The Supremes:

So were the hosts directed to not overly mention or ask questions about the Supremes in any way? This important factor of this whole shebang ...just leave it out.

This was on purpose.... they had decided the best way to highlight the amazing return of the Supremes was to hardly have them involved at all ...

Best not to call attention to their lack of credentials to the unassuming ....yes it really is The Supremes, even though Diana barely knows them or ever worked with them BITD ... so ya Supremes again, sort of ... no need to get into the weeds about this ...just leave it at that ??


How does Diana put it, "All you have to do is show up."

[Spreadinglove21]

Well Scherrie and Lynda had been performing together for 13 years or so at this point so they had musical bond. Diana was the newcomer to the group, in a sense. Though in truth Scherrie and Lynda were new members to the Diana Ross solo live show. Performance not bad for a new show in the works. But does the performance give out an aura of a genuine real group? Nope.

[Boogiedown]

It's an ok appearance and an interesting combination in that we had three legit Supremes even though they had no history together. None were in the group at the same time.

All of this was to promote a tour that was ill-conceived and grossly over-priced.

this deepens the phoniness of this reunion. I hadn't made the connection that , although they performed for years together in the past, Lynda and Scherrie were actually unrelated in terms of their times shared as Supremes . All three are strangers when it comes to being Supremes members.

[Boogiedown]

Before getting back to looking at this specific appearance, I wonder how these three got together in order to plan this tour? Did they first have some type of lunch together , just the three of them to get to know each other?? Surely[?] Diana was interested in knowing them a little more personally, get some bonding going ...create some chemistry. Wouldn't that make sense??

Although since Lynda and Scherrie already knew each other well, Diana probably would have felt like the odd girl out. Hey just like the real Supremes days! Its all coming back ... "uh, you girls go ahead and work out your participation amongst yourselves" ....

Maybe they never met at all outside of rehearsing on stage ??? Just "showed up"?


Scherrie or Lynda ... need to write a book about this , maybe together !!


Added : Had Scherrie and Lynda at this point put in more time as Supremes than Diana ever had??

[Spreadinglove21]

I recall reading in J. Randy Taraborelli's revised and updated Diana Ross biography [[published about 2007?) an incident that occurred during RTL [[either rehearsals or during the tour) in which Diana was backstage and heard Lynda and Scherrie laughing in their dressing room so Diana burst in demanding to know what was going on and why they were laughing. Scherrie explained she and Lynda were friends and were sharing a laugh. Diana found that astonishing and bizarre and couldn't understand how people could be friends, especially singers as she never had such a feeling with The Supremes back in the 60s.

I can only wonder what was going through her mind when she heard the laughter--did she think Scherrie and Lynda were laughing at her? Or cackling over some evil plot they were hatching to undermine and destroy Diana?

[Albator]

I understand the exact opposite.
Hearing Lynda and Scherrie laughing together made Diana realize, with a touch of sadness, that she'd never had any complicity with the two Supremes.


In fact, didn't Barbara Walters ask Diana :
"have you known all of these years, she talks about since you were 13, that Mary Wilson had this kind of resentment ."


It was obvious to all they were never friends in a genuine way. It was just a matter of circonstances.

[Ollie9]

They may not have been the closest of friends, but it’s hard to believe there weren’t plenty of good times that Diana shared with Mary, Flo and Cindy.
Mary mentions in one of her books that while on tour, they always had more fun when BG wasn’t around as Diana was more relaxed.

[jim aka jtigre99]

Diana, Mary and Florence were friendly coworkers. Diana was always overly competitive with her bandmates, which would naturally cause some resentments. Florence, apparently, was quite open about it. Once Berry chose Diana and they had goals together, it probably caused their friendliness with each other to suffer.
Ross said herself she never really had many female friends until later with Suzanne DePasse. Scherrie and Lynda did not have that competitive nature so naturally they became friends while members of the FLOS. Even in her recent tour, Diana has a video saying she was a tomboy and very competitive. I am sure that made it harder for Florence and Mary to become closer with her. So I would say they were friendly but never were able to get that bond due to the pressure Diana was under and their busy schedules. Still, despite everything they did remain friendly even if their relationships became strained. They just probably never did have the laughs that Scherrie and Lynda had because of all of the pressures they were under in the 60's.

[Spreadinglove21]

I recall when she appeared on Oprah in early 90s to promote Secrets of a Sparrow, Oprah asked Diana about her friends. Diana said her children were her friends. That didn't satisfy Oprah and she asked she any girlfriends she could relax and hang out with. Diana replied that her secretary was her friend.

[RanRan79]

Comparing Diana, Flo and Mary's relationship to Scherrie and Lynda's is nonsensical. And I do hope I'm not coming off as insulting or dismissive in response. That is definitely not my intention. However, I couldn't think of another way to describe how I see the comparison.

Scherrie and Lynda undoubtedly met in the 70s, maybe crossing paths through the business, or maybe at one of Mary's parties. Whether that friendship began then or when the two women became FLOS in the 80s, they were very much grown. If your adult relationships mirror your juvenile ones, something aint right.

Diana, Flo and Mary became friends through the Primettes, which was no different than how most teens become friends via classes together or living on the same street or participating in the same extracurricular activities. Not only did they perform together, but they attended parties together, double dated, spent the night at one another's homes, did each other's hair [[I think Diana was doing their hair, not the other way around), all the things teen girlfriends do. Diana Ross even sang at Flo's father's funeral. You don't do that, or allow it to be done, if there is no affection or familiarity with one another beyond "we work together".

There are anecdotes even in JRT's CHMR of the original Supremes sharing laughs and moments of levity. In fact there are some in the book Spreading references. Sometimes things are written to play up a certain narrative. In this case, depicting a 50 year old woman being unable to grasp the reality of two women sharing a laugh in camaraderie, plays up the idea that Diana Ross grew up to be a lonely woman, likely due to her youthful antics that alienated folks. And while there may certainly be some truth to that- the answer of her children being her friends and then her secretary don't help her case- the anecdote might also be over exaggerated. Perhaps Diana did "burst" in wanting to know what's so funny. We've all asked the question before, we've all wanted to be in on the joke, but oddly Diana wanting to know the same thing meant she couldn't understand two women laughing together. I wonder who told the story? Did Diana say she couldn't understand it, or was that what the storyteller read into it because, well, it's Diana Ross and why not think she couldn't understand?

The idea that Diana never shared a hardy laugh with Florence and Mary in the nearly decade the three sang together is just more negative narrative regarding the original Supremes. Diana is said to have been good friends with Cal of the Velvelettes back in the day. Even they never laughed? Come on now. Lol

[bradsupremes]

I believe it's been mentioned on here, but during rehearsals for RTL, Scherrie observed whenever Mary's name was brought up or something referring to what the original group did when they performed, Diana would get teary-eyed and emotional.

One doesn't respond that way over a coworker, but rather someone you have/had personal connections and affection for.

[RanRan79]

I believe it's been mentioned on here, but during rehearsals for RTL, Scherrie observed whenever Mary's name was brought up or something referring to what the original group did when they performed, Diana would get teary-eyed and emotional.

One doesn't respond that way over a coworker, but rather someone you have/had personal connections and affection for.

Absolutely. Describing the Supremes' relationships to one another as "complicated" might be as accurate a description as there is. But within that complication is all the stuff that makes all of our relationships complicated: love, anger, sadness, disappointment, perhaps jealousy, selfishness, fun, distant, close. These were not relationships that spanned a year or two. I can't imagine Flo, Diana or Mary having these same feelings with Betty, Barbara, or Cindy, the latter in Diana's case. We're talking at least a decade of young life.

[Boogiedown]

Diana Ross was far from being a juvenile when she hooked up with The Flos for the faux reunion, but apparently her relationship skills remained undeveloped.

Leave it her to have her own dressing room while sticking the other two in a shared one, and then wonder why they're having such a good time and she isn't.:rolleyes:

[thanxal]

I believe it's been mentioned on here, but during rehearsals for RTL, Scherrie observed whenever Mary's name was brought up or something referring to what the original group did when they performed, Diana would get teary-eyed and emotional.

One doesn't respond that way over a coworker, but rather someone you have/had personal connections and affection for.
HOW DARE YOU suggest that Diana had an affection or a kind thought for another Supreme, particularly Mary! Blas-phem-errrrrr!!!!
[/snark]

[jobeterob]

I believe it's been mentioned on here, but during rehearsals for RTL, Scherrie observed whenever Mary's name was brought up or something referring to what the original group did when they performed, Diana would get teary-eyed and emotional.

One doesn't respond that way over a coworker, but rather someone you have/had personal connections and affection for.

She appears to be quite a spiritual, emotional person.

I think this is a good post.

Parsing some minor incidents that way that was done by Randy, Tony and even Mary seems unreasonable to me. It seems to be it is done to "celebrities of a certain stature". My guess is that the celebrity probably doesn't even remember it. But the rabble gives it "major play" because it was their interaction with Barbra or Aretha or Ella or Bruce or Beyonce or Diana.

I don't really buy a lot of it or put much stock in it myself. But if it's what turns somebody's crank and what they remember, how can you argue it?

[Ollie9]

Diana was emotional because her marriage had just ended. I really can’t imagine her tearing up about Mary Wilson, no matter how spiritual some perceive her to be.
Had she wanted Mary on that tour she would have been there. Bottom line.

[jobeterob]

Diana was emotional because her marriage had just ended. I really can’t imagine her tearing up about Mary Wilson, no matter how spiritual some perceive her to be.
Had she wanted Mary on that tour she would have been there. Bottom line.

I agree with this too. I believe Scherrie saw what she saw and believes what she said. But I think Mary was nothing but a pain in the ass to Diana after 1983. Rhonda turned on her heel and walked away from her. The kids wanted her to stay away from Mary. She may have loved Mary and loved what they went through but she didn't like her or want to be around her anymore. They could not come to a meeting of the minds on being together on a tour like the Beach Boys and Temptations did. Mary was jealous - I would have been too. It takes time to get over seeing your partner walk away to massive success while you struggle.

[thanxal]

Oh come on. Do any of us really know what Diana thought about Mary at any given point? There could be so many things that none of us know that went on between them. Just the idea that Diana could possibly have reserved a kind or emotional thought toward her? Is that so unreasonable to think?

[jobeterob]

For me, there’s a bit of magic in this clip now. We now know there will be no real reunion of the seminal Supremes - the M25 moment was a crock of dog crap and there was nothing else real. But there was this and it was real singing by women who were Supremes that stayed at it for years.

The proved they could get along - they should do some more of it

[Albator]

I agree with this too. I believe Scherrie saw what she saw and believes what she said. But I think Mary was nothing but a pain in the ass to Diana after 1983. Rhonda turned on her heel and walked away from her. The kids wanted her to stay away from Mary. She may have loved Mary and loved what they went through but she didn't like her or want to be around her anymore. They could not come to a meeting of the minds on being together on a tour like the Beach Boys and Temptations did. Mary was jealous - I would have been too. It takes time to get over seeing your partner walk away to massive success while you struggle.
Very true.

It's really hard to go against the evidence... Diana is very attached to her "image", and Mary Willson never stopped trying to damage it. Either out of resentment or because it was the only way she could exist in the media.


In 20/20 Diana was very clear about what she thinks of Mary Willson, and it's no different from what she wrote in "Secret of the sparrow".

[Ollie9]

Very true.

It's really hard to go against the evidence... Diana is very attached to her "image", and Mary Willson never stopped trying to damage it. Either out of resentment or because it was the only way she could exist in the media.


In 20/20 Diana was very clear about what she thinks of Mary Willson, and it's no different from what she wrote in "Secret of the sparrow".

Diana certainly didn’t need any help from Mary to damage her image. Lashing out at reporters with stiletto heels while on a trip to Paris, plus driving while intoxicated being just two incidents.
I suppose it is possible Mary might had paid the press to try and wind her up lol.
I know, let’s just blame Mary.

[jobucats]

I just re-watched it. What I like mostly about this is that it appears to be only Scherrie & Lynda who are singing the background vocals, unless I am missing something, as opposed to the extra background singers positioned behind them during the RTL arena performances. Those background vocals sound good.

[reese]

I just re-watched it. What I like mostly about this is that it appears to be only Scherrie & Lynda who are singing the background vocals, unless I am missing something, as opposed to the extra background singers positioned behind them during the RTL arena performances. Those background vocals sound good.

I think there are additional vocalists in the TODAY clip as well. In a few of the long shots, I catch glimpses of three figures positioned behind the percussionist.

[RanRan79]

I'm sure there was a part of Diana that hoped the whole thing would work out as originally planned, with Mary and Cindy. I imagine the drama that ensued hurt Diana deeply, even if she was part of the problem. I also think when it became clear that Mary wasn't going to go along to get along, Diana had an issue with that and thus she did not do all she could to go to bat with the promoters on Mary and Cindy's behalf. How any of that leads to Diana having no emotion in regards to Mary Wilson, other than anger and dismissiveness, is quite a leap. Again, despite the complexities of the relationships in our lives, we somehow hold the Supremes to some kind of different standard, as if they are less human- or superhuman- than each of us. I don't get it.

And chalking Mary's issues up to jealousy is low hanging fruit. I've seen that crap, particularly among women or among men discussing women, my whole life, where it's always "Oh, she's just jealous". It couldn't be that the other woman [[Diana) was a bitch and an asshole sometimes, it had to be jealousy. Not buying it.

I am not at all suggesting that Mary didn't have a jealous bone in her body. I imagine it had to suck for her- and while she was alive, Florence too- to have started out with Diana but fail to achieve the solo success Diana had. I also think that would only be natural, for anyone in Mary's position. However, the things Mary has griped about Diana have mostly been legitimate gripes.

Did Mary carry a grudge? I have to conclude that Mary did in fact carry a grudge for a long time. She writes in her book about Diana flirting with Mary's "fiancé" in the early Supremes days, and criticizing Mary's appearance in front of him. The passage doesn't end with "I finally pulled that heifer aside and told her in no uncertain terms, do it again and I'll kick your ass". Instead the passage ends with Mary explaining how she "let it go" in order to keep the group from falling apart.

So ultimately, if you read through Mary's first book, so often what she did was get insulted and offended- intentionally or not- and then push her feelings about it down in order to keep the peace, something a lot of people do, unfortunately. What ends up happening to people who do that is that the feelings don't go away, they just get stored up until- BAM- it all comes rushing out. So was it Mary's jealousy that had her recalling these moments or was it finally dealing with the anger that she didn't allow herself to deal with previously, and in regards to a person who was often dismissive and unavailable?

It's interesting to me that Mary isn't allowed her grudges from things she claims Diana did or said, but Diana is allowed her grudges from things Mary has written and said. What's good for one should be good for the other. Either both women's issues should be validated or we chalk both of them up to catty females. It can't be one on this and the other on that.

[Ollie9]

It's interesting to me that Mary isn't allowed her grudges from things she claims Diana did or said, but Diana is allowed her grudges from things Mary has written and said. What's good for one should be good for the other. Either both women's issues should be validated or we chalk both of them up to catty females. It can't be one on this and the other on that.

EXACTLY Ran, though i think there will always be those more comfortable in casting one of these woman the villain as proved here. Mary consumed by jealously, Diana the self-centred, egotistical bitch etc etc.
Sadly it’s set to play until there is no one left to remember.

[bradsupremes]

I agree with this too. I believe Scherrie saw what she saw and believes what she said. But I think Mary was nothing but a pain in the ass to Diana after 1983. Rhonda turned on her heel and walked away from her. The kids wanted her to stay away from Mary. She may have loved Mary and loved what they went through but she didn't like her or want to be around her anymore. They could not come to a meeting of the minds on being together on a tour like the Beach Boys and Temptations did. Mary was jealous - I would have been too. It takes time to get over seeing your partner walk away to massive success while you struggle.

At the time of RTL, yes the kids were protective of their mom as any kid would, but in recent years the Ross kids have been very kind to Mary. There were several occasions before Mary's death where her and Rhonda were together; Rhonda always making sure to say hello and get a photo together. During the Elton John Oscars party, it was Evan who ran into Mary, excited to see her, and insisted she come over and say hello to the family. I was with Mary and Jim Brown going to a Hillary Clinton fundraiser back in 2015 when the topic of Tracee and her success with Black-ish came up and Jim asked Mary how Tracee was doing. Mary said "I haven't seen her recently but I'm happy to know she's doing well and having that success. She's always been so nice." When Mary passed way, Rhonda and Tracee posted very sweet tributes to Mary. Whatever came out of RTL, Diana, Mary, and the Ross kids let the water flow under the bridge.

[Ollie9]

At the time of RTL, yes the kids were protective of their mom as any kid would, but in recent years the Ross kids have been very kind to Mary. There were several occasions before Mary's death where her and Rhonda were together; Rhonda always making sure to say hello and get a photo together. During the Elton John Oscars party, it was Evan who ran into Mary, excited to see her, and insisted she come over and say hello to the family. I was with Mary and Jim Brown going to a Hillary Clinton fundraiser back in 2015 when the topic of Tracee and her success with Black-ish came up and Jim asked Mary how Tracee was doing. Mary said "I haven't seen her recently but I'm happy to know she's doing well and having that success. She's always been so nice." When Mary passed way, Rhonda and Tracee posted very sweet tributes to Mary. Whatever came out of RTL, Diana, Mary, and the Ross kids let the water flow under the bridge.

This is heartening to know brad.

[Boogiedown]

Strikes me as common courtesy when you stumble upon someone unexpectedly especially when you're on public display and you have to gauge which plays better, a quick hug or throwing your butter knife at someone . :p

[PeaceNHarmony]

My thoughts. Hmmm. Shameful that one Supreme cost another Supreme a desperately needed paycheck. The resulting performances were excellent but Cindy shoulda been there.

[Ollie9]

My thoughts. Hmmm. Shameful that one Supreme cost another Supreme a desperately needed paycheck. The resulting performances were excellent but Cindy shoulda been there.

Not sure about feeling shameful, but i’m sure Diana had her regrets.

[Boogiedown]

Not sure about feeling shameful, but i’m sure Diana had her regrets.

Every time Diana heard Mary's name mentioned, it brought tears to her eyes because she was reminded how much money they'd blown from the mishandling. ....

[Albator]

Never listened to this revealing interview from UK.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7HjM5QJBRlw&t=927s

At about 9 minutes she talks about The Supremes becoming Diana Ross &

[Ollie9]

Every time Diana heard Mary's name mentioned, it brought tears to her eyes because she was reminded how much money they'd blown from the mishandling. ....

I’m sure that more likely then sisterly love. Diana is a shrewd business woman, and RTL was primarily about making as much money as possible.