Bizarre Billboard Chart Snub For Diana Ross

[Boogiedown]

In 1973 , Diana Ross' LADY SINGS THE BLUES will become a #1 album on Billboard's weekly Top 200 LP chart. It'll also reach #2 on the magazine's Soul LPs chart.

Yet .... it will be completely ignored on their JAZZ LP chart. The rest of the nation's music aficionados will embrace this project featuring Billie Holiday songs while the jazz crowd totally ignores it??
How likely is that ?

And to make this situation truly bizarre .....
what album and by who do you think is #1 on the Jazz chart at this time? ?:confused:

[mindful1]

[QUOTE=Boogiedown;750596]In 1973 , Diana Ross' LADY SINGS THE BLUES will become a #1 album on Billboard's weekly Top 200 LP chart. It'll also reach #2 on the magazine's Soul LPs chart.

Yet .... it will be completely ignored on their JAZZ LP chart. The rest of the nation's music aficionados will embrace this project featuring Billie Holiday songs while the jazz crowd totally ignores it??
How likely is that ?

And to make this situation truly bizarre .....
what album and by who do you think is #1 on the Jazz chart at this time? ?:confused:[/QUOTE

The wildly popular film soundtrack The Godfather?

[Boogiedown]

[QUOTE=Boogiedown;750596]In 1973 , Diana Ross' LADY SINGS THE BLUES will become a #1 album on Billboard's weekly Top 200 LP chart. It'll also reach #2 on the magazine's Soul LPs chart.

Yet .... it will be completely ignored on their JAZZ LP chart. The rest of the nation's music aficionados will embrace this project featuring Billie Holiday songs while the jazz crowd totally ignores it??
How likely is that ?

And to make this situation truly bizarre .....
what album and by who do you think is #1 on the Jazz chart at this time? ?:confused:[/QUOTE

The wildly popular film soundtrack The Godfather?

I love this answer but nope that's not it!

[reese]

Was it Billie herself? I know Atlantic released an album by her called STRANGE FRUIT around that time.

[Boogiedown]

Was it Billie herself? I know Atlantic released an album by her called STRANGE FRUIT around that time.

Now that really would be something wouldn't it?:eek:

And BTW , you're right!

[reese]

Now that really would be something wouldn't it?:eek:

And BTW , you're right!

Cool. As a kid, I remember seeing an ad for the STRANGE FRUIT album in Jet or Ebony and wondering how a Billie record ended up on Aretha's label [Atlantic].

[jobeterob]

Cool. As a kid, I remember seeing an ad for the STRANGE FRUIT album in Jet or Ebony and wondering how a Billie record ended up on Aretha's label [Atlantic].

I remember hearing or reading that Billie Holiday's first album on the charts occurred after the movie was released.

I haven't gone and checked; does that seem accurate Reese?

[Jaap]

At least Ross got "revenge" with Blue... #2 on Billboard's Jazz album charts.

[reese]

I remember hearing or reading that Billie Holiday's first album on the charts occurred after the movie was released.

I haven't gone and checked; does that seem accurate Reese?

I just looked at the Billboard Pop Album chart and it seems her first entry wasn't until 1972. I couldn't find how her albums might have done on the Jazz chart.

[jobeterob]

I just looked at the Billboard Pop Album chart and it seems her first entry wasn't until 1972. I couldn't find how her albums might have done on the Jazz chart.

I just went looking too and your right

https://www.billboard.com/artist/billie-holiday/

However I think there may have been some specialized jazz charts she made it onto in the 40’s

Diana accomplished some remarkable feats and popularizing Billie Holiday was one of them

Screw the Grammys

[Boogiedown]

The Jazz chart lists 25 titles and is not weekly, perhaps monthly, I haven't narrowed down its schedule. Right now I'm looking at the one for 2/24/73.

It's a tad bit more bizarre:
Not only is there no interest in Diana Ross doing Billie Holiday, the interest in Billie herself is so strong, she's charting in the Top 10 twice. Once at #1 with STRANGE FRUIT, a new release of old stuff as stated by reese, but also a reissue of THE BILLIE HOLIDAY story is at #8. To have both these records charting with one being the most popular of them all currently, it strikes me as curious these buyers are walking right past the new soundtrack.

Any theories as to why Miss Ross gets the total snub?? The jazz enthusiasts aren't interested in this new angle of an old favorite?

I know from having worked records retail, there's a lot a snobbery in customers, and the classical and jazz buyers were the worst. Is it that??

[jobeterob]

There may have been some rules at the time keeping LSTB off the jazz chart.

Maybe it wasn’t acknowledged as jazz lol.

I wonder how billboard was compiling the jazz chart in 1972.

[Boogiedown]

There may have been some rules at the time keeping LSTB off the jazz chart.

Maybe it wasn’t acknowledged as jazz lol.

I wonder how billboard was compiling the jazz chart in 1972.

hee haw!

.....probably direct reports from snobby jazz buyers at select locations.

[reese]

I guess some of the jazz fans changed their thoughts re Diana's work in LADY. In 1974, the Newport Jazz Festival paid tribute to Diana with a midnight jam session. Although I recall reading one reviewer complaining that in addition to her LADY material, Diana did her regular repertoire as well.

[jobeterob]

I just saw that a Frank Sinatra album has been #1 on a Billboard Jazz chart for 125 weeks

There’s always been some questions about many charts, what they are measuring and the validity of what is being measured.

[Boogiedown]

I just saw that a Frank Sinatra album has been #1 on a Billboard Jazz chart for 125 weeks

There’s always been some questions about many charts, what they are measuring and the validity of what is being measured.

Really?? 125 @ #1 ?? Or total charting weeks??

[Boogiedown]

It gets worse for Diana the following month's chart, March 24, 1973:

The jazz crowd is now buying three of Billie's LPs while still ignoring hers :

#2 STRANGE FRUIT
#6 THE BILLIE HOLIDAY STORY
#18 BILLIE HOLIDAY THE ORIGINAL RECORDINGS

LADY SINGS THE BLUES - Not charting

[Ollie9]

I know one jazz purist who doesn’t consider the “ LSTB” soundtrack as being authentic jazz. Perhaps this attitude was part of the reason.
Personally i think it an incredible achievement that she managed to make so many of those BH songs her own. Something hardly anyone else has been able to do.

[Boogiedown]

I know one jazz purist who doesn’t consider the “ LSTB” soundtrack as being authentic jazz. Perhaps this attitude was part of the reason.
Personally i think it an incredible achievement that she managed to make so many of those BH songs her own. Something hardly anyone else has been able to do.

exactly.
I would think that crowd would be grateful for the bother. Eager to hear a "new" yet true spin on an old favorite.
It honestly does not make sense to me.

[Ollie9]

exactly.
I would think that crowd would be grateful for the bother. Eager to hear a "new" yet true spin on an old favorite.
It honestly does not make sense to me.

As Diana once said, “It’s a long way from “Baby Love” To “Good Morning Heartache”.

[jobeterob]

Really?? 125 @ #1 ?? Or total charting weeks??

125 weeks at #1

What that means is it's useless chart and the sales or streams in the whole area are static

[jobeterob]

I know around the time of the movie there were critics that said if all the movie did was open the world up to Billie Holiday, then it was a huge success

[TNSUN]

I am wondering if the spoken dialogue included in
the "Lady Sings The Blues" soundtrack album excluded it from being in the category of an album of jazz songs. It remains a great album and Diana Ross' singing is joyful as ever after all these years.

[Ollie9]

I am wondering if the spoken dialogue included in
the "Lady Sings The Blues" soundtrack album excluded it from being in the category of an album of jazz songs. It remains a great album and Diana Ross' singing is joyful as ever after all these years.

It’s certainly a possibility. If ever a Diana Ross album deserved an expanded edition it’s got to be “LSTB. Perhaps this lack of recognition being the reason it’s fallen under the radar in recent times. Diana’s version of “God Bless The Child” beats all others imo.

[jobeterob]

My memory is there can be no expanded edition because they need permission from several entities - Paramount etc

[Ollie9]

My memory is there can be no expanded edition because they need permission from several entities - Paramount etc

This I understand, but these kind of film soundtracks are released all the time on cd.
I wonder what makes “LSTB” particularly difficult. Sadly it’s become something of a lost gem.

[TNSUN]

I believe Diana Ross recorded alot of Billie Holiday songs at this time. Is it true that only the songs included in the movie made it to the LSTB soundtrack album? How many songs are still in the vaults? Priceless.

[reese]

I believe Diana Ross recorded alot of Billie Holiday songs at this time. Is it true that only the songs included in the movie made it to the LSTB soundtrack album? How many songs are still in the vaults? Priceless.

There's a version of the title song with a musical track backing Diana. For the album, they only included Diana's vocal with no instrumentation. But a snippet of the full version can be heard [[I think) in MOTOWN 40.

[Boogiedown]

I am wondering if the spoken dialogue included in
the "Lady Sings The Blues" soundtrack album excluded it from being in the category of an album of jazz songs. It remains a great album and Diana Ross' singing is joyful as ever after all these years.

Thought about that , but why would there be rules for this genre that weren't so for the Soul and Pop charts? Personally I would probably have returned the LP if it had all this dialogue interrupting the music.
Can't argue with its success as is, but an optional non-dialogue version might have done even better? Or added to the coffers anyway.

[Boogiedown]

It gets a bit more bizarre:

April 7, 1973: [is this the time of the Oscars??]

LADY SINGS THE BLUES in its 20th week charting hits #1 on the Top 200.
It is also #2 in its 18th week on the Soul LPs.

But on the Jazz chart , now expanded to 40 listings from 25 in the past, buyers are now preferring four other Billie Holiday releases:


#8 STRANGE FRUIT
#16 THE BILLIE HOLIDAY STORY
#19 BILLIE HOLIDAY THE ORIGINAL RECORDINGS

and now ad:
#29 HISTORY OF BILLIE HOLIDAY

meanwhile
LADY SINGS THE BLUES - zilch

[TNSUN]

A remastered LSTB album without dialogue and more songs would be ideal. Diana Ross' vocals at this time seem to be freer and mellower than ever in her career. Listening to Billie, Diana discovered her own vocal gifts. Personally, Billie is not my cup of tea. I do love Billie's song selections and her early recordings swing like Ella!

[Boogiedown]

A remastered LSTB album without dialogue and more songs would be ideal. Diana Ross' vocals at this time seem to be freer and mellower than ever in her career. Listening to Billie, Diana discovered her own vocal gifts. Personally, Billie is not my cup of tea. I do love Billie's song selections and her early recordings swing like Ella!

I don't think there was a disclaimer on the packaging that the LP was riddled with dialogue. [?] At the time, one couldn't obtain the movie itself for home use as would be the norm later, so likely many treasured having this unique opportunity. But if it weren't made clear this is what one was instore for, I would also guess many put up with it for a couple listens at most, but so what, the product had been sold,

and the 7.98 list price for the double set added easy extra pennies to the Motown bookkeeping.

It likely was a healthy experience for Ross in developing her vocal skills, but by only doing Billie songs, I wonder if there was a resentment that she was robbing the Holiday treasury for her own gain.

[reese]

When I bought the soundtrack and saw titles like "The Arrest," and "Louis Visits Billie on Tour," I just assumed they were instrumentals from those scenes in the film. So when the album began with the dialogue "Billie Holiday. We're taking you in...," yeah, it was a bit jarring but I can't say it really bothered me, then or now.

[jim aka jtigre99]

I know one jazz purist who doesn’t consider the “ LSTB” soundtrack as being authentic jazz. Perhaps this attitude was part of the reason.
Personally i think it an incredible achievement that she managed to make so many of those BH songs her own. Something hardly anyone else has been able to do. I agree, purists seemed nonplussed about her singing their genre at the time. I agree with you, her vocals remain her own yet you can feel BH in her vocals. A remarkable achievement!

[Boogiedown]

When I bought the soundtrack and saw titles like "The Arrest," and "Louis Visits Billie on Tour," I just assumed they were instrumentals from those scenes in the film. So when the album began with the dialogue "Billie Holiday. We're taking you in...," yeah, it was a bit jarring but I can't say it really bothered me, then or now.

Did you buy it then reese?? Or later on??

From reading at The Diana Ross Project, it seems the first disk is kind of a mish-mash of excerpts , partial songs and dialogue.
The second LP is the pay off...do you agree?

[Ollie9]

Complete with dialogue, i loved the whole album from the first time i ever heard it.
I consider it sad that other then the “Stolen Moments” concert, she would never again record a whole jazz album, seeming always to be chasing the next hit. Most fans would have lapped it up.

[Boogiedown]

Complete with dialogue, i loved the whole album from the first time i ever heard it.
I consider it sad that other then the “Stolen Moments” concert, she would never again record a whole jazz album, seeming always to be chasing the next hit. Most fans would have lapped it up.
unless by fans , you mean jazz fans, who completely ignored this .....and now we're back to square one :p

[Ollie9]

unless by fans , you mean jazz fans, who completely ignored this .....and now we're back to square one :p

Perhaps those said jazz purists could have been won over second time around. Their adoration of Billie Holiday may have got in the way that first outing. :)

[reese]

Did you buy it then reese?? Or later on??

From reading at The Diana Ross Project, it seems the first disk is kind of a mish-mash of excerpts , partial songs and dialogue.
The second LP is the pay off...do you agree?

I bought it somewhere around 1977 or 1978.

I honestly don't have a problem with the album, dialogue and all. Most of the songs that were truncated, like ALL OF ME or FINE AND MELLOW had full-length versions on the second disc. They should have done the same for the title track and MEAN TO ME.

The only criticism I have is that I think her vocals on MY MAN are wimpy until she gets to the climax.

[Boogiedown]

Perhaps those said jazz purists could have been won over second time around. Their adoration of Billie Holiday may have got in the way that first outing. :)
She could have done jazz standards by many artists and called it LADY SINGS THE JAZZ just to
make it abundantly clear that this is right up their alley.

hmmm but maybe not, kind of like poking a tiger with a stick.

so one thing I’m
doing as of late is listening to some of this material.[ Unfortunately YouTube doesn’t provide the entire set as a continuous listen ].

Am I right that Diana intentionally sang some tunes as if high or under the influence to sound more “Billie” later in her career? I could see how faking insobriety could be a turn off for “purists” listening to it.
Similarly , I personally don’t care for the way Ross sings “good moanin’ heartache “, sounds contrived and perhaps condescending to purposely sing it that way.

[reese]

Am I right that Diana intentionally sang some tunes as if high or under the influence to sound more “Billie” later in her career? I could see how faking insobriety could be a turn off for “purists” listening to it.

In SECRETS OF A SPARROW, Diana wrote that she used the song's placement in the script as a factor in determining Billie's addiction status and how that affected her [Diana's] interpretation.

[Boogiedown]

I bought it somewhere around 1977 or 1978.

I honestly don't have a problem with the album, dialogue and all. Most of the songs that were truncated, like ALL OF ME or FINE AND MELLOW had full-length versions on the second disc. They should have done the same for the title track and MEAN TO ME.

The only criticism I have is that I think her vocals on MY MAN are wimpy until she gets to the climax.

I’ll give MY MAN a listen the next time at my computer .:)
What is the point I wonder of truncated versions that are then provided in full?

[reese]

I’ll give MY MAN a listen the next time at my computer .:)
What is the point I wonder of truncated versions that are then provided in full?

There are only a few truncated versions and they are included on the sides that have dialogue: ALL OF ME and FINE AND MELLOW.

The truncated ALL OF ME includes the scene where Diana auditions for Dean and Dean's. When it appears on the second disc, it is actually a different, full version.

The truncated FINE AND MELLOW is from the scene where Louis comes into town and sees Billie on stage under the influence, illustrated by the sluggish onstage dialogue she uses when going into the next tune, WHAT A LITTLE MOONLIGHT CAN DO. The full FINE AND MELLOW appears on the second disc.

MEAN TO ME should have gotten a full version. The only version on the album is taken from the scene where Billie passes out onstage after taking drugs.

The title song also should have gotten a full version. The version on the album is only the first verse and only includes Diana's vocal. But there is also a version that includes the same vocal but with instrumentation and it can be heard in the MOTOWN 40 special.

[Boogiedown]

Oh I see . It sounds like a thoughtful approach. You get the samplers at first, as used in the movie , then a real
listen. I rather like it.

[Boogiedown]

I mentioned on another thread recently having noticed there is no reference to Billie Holiday anywhere on the LSTB soundtrack. Diana Ross in big letters yes and that’s fine , and even Berry Gordy gets his name on there. But Billie Holiday? Who’s that?

Maybe a nod to the person who is being tapped into might have been a respectful thing to do….to not do so seems pretty disregarding.

Could this slight have affected the cool response to it by the jazz crowd who apparently decided if they wanted Billie Holidays music , they knew where to find it : from the actual source.
I would venture it had an affect, can’t prove how much.

[reese]

I mentioned on another thread recently having noticed there is no reference to Billie Holiday anywhere on the LSTB soundtrack. Diana Ross in big letters yes and that’s fine , and even Berry Gordy gets his name on there. But Billie Holiday? Who’s that?

Maybe a nod to the person who is being tapped into might have been a respectful thing to do….to not do so seems pretty disregarding.

Could this slight have affected the cool response to it by the jazz crowd who apparently decided if they wanted Billie Holidays music , they knew where to find it : from the actual source.
I would venture it had an affect, not sure how much.

I don't think this had anything to do with the jazz audience embracing or not embracing the soundtrack. The album is titled LADY SINGS THE BLUES. Anyone who was really interested would know who the "LADY" referred to.

Maybe some of them just weren't interested in Diana singing jazz. Maybe Motown didn't have an agressive marketing plan for the jazz audience. Or maybe some didn't appreciate the liberties taken with Billie's life. It could be anything.

[Boogiedown]

…

Reese:
I don't think this had anything to do with the jazz audience embracing or not embracing the soundtrack. The album is titled LADY SINGS THE BLUES. Anyone who was really interested would know who the "LADY" referred to.

.. yes as it says in big letters “DIANA ROSS” :p

Who knows. maybe not the actual buyers, because obviously a number one album is selling , but Noticing such a slight could affect how the reporting jazz retailers chose not to report it/ support it. There must be some reason they weren’t. ???
so far there’s not a reasonable explanation ….

[reese]

…

.. yes as it says in big letters “DIANA ROSS” :p

Who knows. maybe not the actual buyers, because obviously a number one album is selling , but Noticing such a slight could affect how the reporting jazz retailers chose not to report it/ support it. There must be some reason they weren’t. ???
so far there’s not a reasonable explanation ….

Now you know I meant that the "LADY" referred to Lady Day. :D

[milven]

I mentioned on another thread recently having noticed there is no reference to Billie Holiday anywhere on the LSTB soundtrack. Diana Ross in big letters yes and that’s fine , and even Berry Gordy gets his name on there. But Billie Holiday? Who’s that?
....

Th FUNNY GIRL posters for the Broadway show and movie did not mention Fanny Brice either. And it was her life story. Barbra's name is quite noticeable. The soundtrack and original cast albums also did not mention Fanny. The original Broadway run did not even have any of Fanny's songs in it. Fanny's songs like MY MAN and I'd Rather Be Blue were added to the movie

The nice thing about these two movies is that it brought a whole new generation of fans to Billie Holiday and Fannie Brice and they sought out some of their original music of Billie and Fannie

[midnightman]

It was likely because Diana wasn't considered a jazz artist. It was also the 1970s and that was an era where jazz purists kinda were snooty towards pop-soul artists who occasionally did jazz, we're talking not just about Diana but also Marvin Gaye, Ray Charles, Aretha Franklin and Stevie Wonder, all of whom added jazz elements to their sounds. But jazz purists didn't necessarily consider them "jazz artists" and this is despite the fact that Ray and Aretha performed at jazz festivals in the past [[Ray himself was a frequent performer on the Newport Jazz Festival). But both Ray and Diana wouldn't appear in any jazz album chart until much later on when the rules started losing its strictness about what they consider jazz or not. That's likely why "Lady..." was never given that chance to top the jazz chart at that time in 1973.

[Boogiedown]

Th FUNNY GIRL posters for the Broadway show and movie did not mention Fanny Brice either. And it was her life story. Barbra's name is quite noticeable. The soundtrack and original cast albums also did not mention Fanny. The original Broadway run did not even have any of Fanny's songs in it. Fanny's songs like MY MAN and I'd Rather Be Blue were added to the movie

The nice thing about these two movies is that it brought a whole new generation of fans to Billie Holiday and Fannie Brice and they sought out some of their original music of Billie and Fannie

Interesting thoughts milven. Provides food for thought. I did just a little checking, the posters maybe don't mention Fanny Brice, but the LP covers for the play and the movie both do.

Also the music Barbra sings is almost all new material, with also the two Brice ones you've mentioned.... point being this is not a "Barbra Streisand Sings Fanny Brice" concept ... .... whereas Diana is singing all and only Billie Holiday material. It's the point of the recording.

In a similar way, I'd say that if there were a Comedy album chart, and Barbra Streisand released one using all Fanny Brice's comedy material, it would surely be acknowledged as being such on the album cover. What would be the point of not mentioning it? Why would this detail be left out ?

Why is Billie Holiday left out of Diana's??