Middling albums by Diana Ross?

[Spreadinglove21]

What are albums by Diana Ross you consider middling? That is, they're OK, nothing really bad about the songs/production/performances, but at the same time don't really wow you either. Even the hits or album highlights are a bit underwhelming?

[sup_fan]

i think Diana and Marvin could qualify. there are a couple good tunes but overall the set underdelivered

Ross 83 maybe? it's nice that we finally got an 80s album that was relatively cohesive and were Diana wasn't producer. but overall the material never really jumps out at you

[reese]

LAST TIME I SAW HIM
ROSS [1978]
SILK ELECTRIC
EATEN ALIVE
WORKIN' OVERTIME

I wouldn't call any of these albums truly bad. Some like LTISH and R have some great moments but don't quite hang together.

But some of them like EA and WO just didn't grab me. To this day, if some of these songs from these albums started playing, I wouldn't know what they were. I didn't listen to them enough to get familiar.

[jobeterob]

These comments are fair but Diana and Marvin and Eaten Alive don’t belong in the weaker category for me

[daviddh]

had to think about this , so for me mostly , the RCA out put but i do like Eaten Alive minus the title cut and Ross 83
Last Time I Saw Him was a mess to me .had to redo my playlist.grateful foe the expanded editions to allow me to have the deeper dive into Ross music

[RanRan79]

What are albums by Diana Ross you consider middling? That is, they're OK, nothing really bad about the songs/production/performances, but at the same time don't really wow you either. Even the hits or album highlights are a bit underwhelming?

Going by your definition, I'd say diana80 comes to mind. It's not a bad album at all, it just does nothing for me.

Diana Ross 76 is another one. There are some great highlights for sure, but as a collection, it doesn't work for me.

LTISH has a couple songs I really love, and then some I really don't, and the album sounds like Motown just pulled together some tracks and put out an album, resulting in my not being wowed. But it's not a bad album, per se.

[lucky2012]

Going by your definition, I'd say diana80 comes to mind. It's not a bad album at all, it just does nothing for me.

Diana Ross 76 is another one. There are some great highlights for sure, but as a collection, it doesn't work for me.

LTISH has a couple songs I really love, and then some I really don't, and the album sounds like Motown just pulled together some tracks and put out an album, resulting in my not being wowed. But it's not a bad album, per se.

As Diana says in You Keep Me Hangin, On: Whoa! Whoa! Whoa!

I think Diana Ross 76 and diana 80 are two of her best albums! Never mind that they are two of her best-selling albums. [I realize we're not discussing sales here.] I love everything about the two: production, songs, vocal performance, and the album covers.

I'm going to run for cover now, because I think most of her solo [studio]albums are middling, some bordering on poor [EIE, SE, EA, WO, ILY]

My personal favorites, definitely not middling: Diana Ross 70, Surrender, LSTB, TMITM, Diana Ross 76, BIM, The Boss, diana 80

[TNSUN]

I get excited by every album because Ms.Ross' vocal virtuosity is what I concentrate on.

[daviddh]

i loved DR70,DR 76,BIM,Boss,Diana,TMH,FBTP

[RanRan79]

As Diana says in You Keep Me Hangin, On: Whoa! Whoa! Whoa!

I think Diana Ross 76 and diana 80 are two of her best albums! Never mind that they are two of her best-selling albums. [I realize we're not discussing sales here.] I love everything about the two: production, songs, vocal performance, and the album covers.

I'm going to run for cover now, because I think most of her solo [studio]albums are middling, some bordering on poor [EIE, SE, EA, WO, ILY]

My personal favorites, definitely not middling: Diana Ross 70, Surrender, LSTB, TMITM, Diana Ross 76, BIM, The Boss, diana 80

I feel this way about her RCA albums. They're middling to poor.

My problem with DR76 is "Kiss Me Now", "Smile", "Mahogany" and "After You". Now believe it or not, I love "After You", but I often listen to it apart from the album. I understand why "Mahogany" was included, but they could have limited it to the soundtrack and even used it as an incentive to purchase the greatest hits. "Kiss" and "Smile" throw me off. I don't dislike either one- in fact I think "Smile" is very good- but these songs throw me off while listening to the album. I think the album tracks on the album should have all had a "You're Good Me Child" and "Aint Nothing But a Maybe" vibe in order to have hooked me.

[Bluebrock]

Everything is Everything.
Last time i saw him.
Ross78.
Ross83.
Swept Away.
RHRAB.
Thank You.

All the above albums contained great songs alongside throwaway songs. They are by no means her worst albums. Fools, Silk Electric, Workin' Overtime and I love you are all weaker albums overall, but they all required surgery to make them into good albums.
If truth be told she wasn't that concerned so long as she was making money. She publicly criticised the quality of at least two of her Motown albums, but when she had the opportunity to release strong consistent albums in the 80's she sacrificed quality in favour of a lucrative pay day and i don't think she ever regretted doing that.
In the 90's she finally decided she wanted to take her career seriously again, but Motown USA did not know how to market her product and she was left angry and frustrated by their lack of support.
Nowadays she has very little interest in putting in the work to promote any new product.

[daviddh]

Blubrock
do you think she was used to motown or BG handling everything
not sure how she sees herself

[TNSUN]

Love all the albums. Guess the vocal focus sustains my joy. Like some productions more than others. "He Lives in You" should have been #1 Hit. Love it as much now as in the clubs with sound gardens.

[Albator]

Everything is everything, Touch me in the morning, Diana & Marvin, Diana Ross76, Red hot, Force Behind the Power

- to me bad albums are : last time, Ross 78, WDFFIL, Silk, WO, I love you, thank you.

- good are : Diana Ross, Surrender, Baby it’s me, Boss, diana, Ross83, Swept away, EA, TMH, EDAND

[Bluebrock]

Blubrock
do you think she was used to motown or BG handling everything
not sure how she sees herself
I guess she did kind of throw herself in at the deep end when she left Motown, but she had upped her own input to The Boss and Diana albums so she felt ready to strike out on her own. I still maintain she needed someone to offer advice and input where required but she was sure she could handle it on her own. History perhaps proved that she could not.

[Ollie9]

If truth be told she wasn't that concerned so long as she was making money. She publicly criticised the quality of at least two of her Motown albums, but when she had the opportunity to release strong consistent albums in the 80's she sacrificed quality in favour of a lucrative pay day and i don't think she ever regretted doing that.
In the 90's she finally decided she wanted to take her career seriously again, but Motown USA did not know how to market her product and she was left angry and frustrated by their lack of support.
Nowadays she has very little interest in putting in the work to promote any new product.

From a music fans perspective, it’s a criminal shame that at the peak of her popularity financial gain was her main priority.
I understand she wanted to secure her children’s future, but those first two rca albums really do scream bargain basement. Did she really have so little regard for her legacy?.
It’s interesting that the packaging of those albums appeared not to be affected by any penny pinching around this time.

[Spreadinglove21]

My picks for middling albums: Last Time I saw him, Ross 78, Ross 83, Red Hot Rhythm and Blues, and Take Me Higher.

[sup_fan]

I feel this way about her RCA albums. They're middling to poor.

My problem with DR76 is "Kiss Me Now", "Smile", "Mahogany" and "After You". Now believe it or not, I love "After You", but I often listen to it apart from the album. I understand why "Mahogany" was included, but they could have limited it to the soundtrack and even used it as an incentive to purchase the greatest hits. "Kiss" and "Smile" throw me off. I don't dislike either one- in fact I think "Smile" is very good- but these songs throw me off while listening to the album. I think the album tracks on the album should have all had a "You're Good Me Child" and "Aint Nothing But a Maybe" vibe in order to have hooked me.

while i don't agree, i do recognize your complaints with DR 76. for me the variety does work together but others have stated it's too all over the place.

Love Hangover is so passionate and hot. to me it represents the throws of "the act". the foreplay leading up to the main thing lol

to have Kiss Me Now after that can be jarring. i view it as the playful afterglow. you and your partner are done and in bed, still hot and sweaty but laughing and kissing and goofing off a little now. agree it's not everyone's cup of tea but i think it works.

could there have been other approaches though to the album? definitely

[RanRan79]

while i don't agree, i do recognize your complaints with DR 76. for me the variety does work together but others have stated it's too all over the place.

Love Hangover is so passionate and hot. to me it represents the throws of "the act". the foreplay leading up to the main thing lol

to have Kiss Me Now after that can be jarring. i view it as the playful afterglow. you and your partner are done and in bed, still hot and sweaty but laughing and kissing and goofing off a little now. agree it's not everyone's cup of tea but i think it works.

could there have been other approaches though to the album? definitely

I think Diana could have had perhaps the first "blockbuster" album of her solo career had the song selection been more cohesive. There's no question the album was a success, but it's hard for me to imagine that the average fan loved playing it from beginning to end. To reach back into the vaults for a song from an album that was completed and shelved four or five years ago is a head scratcher. This was the time for "funky" Diana and DR76 kept rising and falling with the occasion.:D

[sup_fan]

I think Diana could have had perhaps the first "blockbuster" album of her solo career had the song selection been more cohesive. There's no question the album was a success, but it's hard for me to imagine that the average fan loved playing it from beginning to end. To reach back into the vaults for a song from an album that was completed and shelved four or five years ago is a head scratcher. This was the time for "funky" Diana and DR76 kept rising and falling with the occasion.:D

maybe it's because i have some sort of association between this album and Evening With. i don't know why exactly but i always sort of tie the two together. she sang LH, Mahogany, Smile. Kiss Me Now sort of seems like a playful song a la I Wanna Be Bad from the HBO 1979 show. so i now KMN isn't on the Evening With album but for some reason it is connected in my mind

so DR 76 is sort of a studio version of her live shows to me. a little jazz, her hits, some strong other songs. And each song on the album is well done, none are tunes i just don't like so that also helps marry them together for me i guess.

odd that i find LTISH so patchwork but here for some reason it seems to gel

[sup_fan]

I think Diana could have had perhaps the first "blockbuster" album of her solo career had the song selection been more cohesive. There's no question the album was a success, but it's hard for me to imagine that the average fan loved playing it from beginning to end. To reach back into the vaults for a song from an album that was completed and shelved four or five years ago is a head scratcher. This was the time for "funky" Diana and DR76 kept rising and falling with the occasion.:D

i do agree though that motown could have used this opportunity to create a blockbuster. DR76 sold incredibly well and is enjoyable. but i'd never suggest it to a casual fan or someone as a "must have" for them to learn about and grow to appreciate DR. ironic given my earlier post about how it seems to easily capture the various sides of DR's talent and styles.

maybe because when LH hit, they just didn't really have any immediate, natural material ready. or at least enough of it to fill an album. One Love is fine enough but IMO it's album filler. not a single. although they could have probably mixed together a better single version than what was actually released, i don't see it as being a lost hit. maybe if Don't Leave Me This Way had actually been recorded on her. the 1-2 punch of these singles would have been mind blowing. in another thread did Bayou say High Inergy's "You Can't Turn Me Off" was intended for Diana? wow. i think it could have also been a super hot Sups song for MSS. but if Diana had recorded it, it would have been amazing here. So an album of LH, YCTMO, DLMTW, One Love, You're good my child, Ain't nothing but a maybe. then a ballad or two. Harmony might have fit pretty well. you still need another track or two

the various Masser tracks like After You, To Love Again, I thought it took etc. are too much of "super lush" ballads IMO. Masser had so much talent that frankly they should have allowed him to produce an entire album. the idea of the Soundtrack including DR leads on Side 1 and then movie music on Side 2 might have worked. but maybe the Masser album should have been the follow up to the revamped DR76 instead of the Richard Perry.

[copley]

Although I have all her Motown recordings none would feature in my Top 200 favs. That's more Motown's fault than hers. I don't own any of her post Motown recordings.

[Ollie9]

For me Diana Ross 76 is the quintessential DR album. Beautiful lush ballads, some thumping disco funk and a sprinkling of mid tempo numbers. Unlike many of her outings for rca, there are no duds on this one. I have always been able to play it from start to finish. Definitely one of her best.

[lucky2012]

I think Diana could have had perhaps the first "blockbuster" album of her solo career had the song selection been more cohesive. There's no question the album was a success, but it's hard for me to imagine that the average fan loved playing it from beginning to end. To reach back into the vaults for a song from an album that was completed and shelved four or five years ago is a head scratcher. This was the time for "funky" Diana and DR76 kept rising and falling with the occasion.:D

I think DR76 is remarkably cohesive for an album with multiple producers. I find that rare. I think Motown really intended to release a quality album and chose the best tracks [or were incredibly lucky!]. Granted not at first, but I soon was playing it beginning to end. I can still do that occasionally.

DR76 reached #4 on Billboard's album charts, probably due to two #1 hits and a stunning album cover. It wasn't a "blockbuster" like Stevie Wonder's run of albums at the time, but it was very successful. Her only "blockbuster" album, comparable to Barbra Streisand's Guilty or Donna Summer's Bad Girls, was 1980's Diana. [Unless you count the LSTB soundtrack].

I feel the same way as Ollie9:
For me Diana Ross 76 is the quintessential DR album. Beautiful lush ballads, some thumping disco funk and a sprinkling of mid tempo numbers. Unlike many of her outings for rca, there are no duds on this one. I have always been able to play it from start to finish. Definitely one of her best.

[Bluebrock]

From a music fans perspective, it’s a criminal shame that at the peak of her popularity financial gain was her main priority.
I understand she wanted to secure her children’s future, but those first two rca albums really do scream bargain basement. Did she really have so little regard for her legacy?.
It’s interesting that the packaging of those albums appeared not to be affected by any penny pinching around this time.
The packaging of those albums was way more interesting than the music contained within said packaging! A case of style over substance!

[Bluebrock]

For me Diana Ross 76 is the quintessential DR album. Beautiful lush ballads, some thumping disco funk and a sprinkling of mid tempo numbers. Unlike many of her outings for rca, there are no duds on this one. I have always been able to play it from start to finish. Definitely one of her best.
Totally agree. I played the hell out of that album when it was released and it will always hold a special place in my heart. It is definitely one of her best efforts despite so many producers being involved.

[Ollie9]

Totally agree. I played the hell out of that album when it was released and it will always hold a special place in my heart. It is definitely one of her best efforts despite so many producers being involved.

Me to. I received the album for my thirteenth birthday and spent the entire summer of 76 wearing those grooves out while gazing at that stunning lip cover.
All the songs hang together well, and with three Diana classics what’s not to like.
My only gripe being i wish the poignant “After You” had been released as a single, at least in the UK.

[sup_fan]

it's interesting to see how sometimes a multi-producer album works out and sometimes it doesn't

Love Child, Right On, Touch me in the morning, DR 76

but then you have Sunshine, Cream, LTISH, Ross 78

of course at the end of the day, quality songs are mandatory. but in most of the cases of the "dud" albums, i don't think the songs are necessarily bad. it might be timing - Ross 78 had two older songs dropped on it and then the remixes.

[sup_fan]

Me to. I received the album for my thirteenth birthday and spent the entire summer of 76 wearing those grooves out while gazing at that stunning lip cover.
All the songs hang together well, and with three Diana classics what’s not to like.
My only gripe being i wish the poignant “After You” had been released as a single, at least in the UK.

After You is just a beautiful song. an absolute favorite of mine. but i wonder if the song's structure might have held it back from being a huge hit. the verses aren't heavily defined from the choruses. it might have sounded a bit too rambling for radio. but i wouldn't have changed a thing of it. it's just lovely. just maybe not the right vehicle to force into the typical requirements of 45 single

[Ollie9]

After You is just a beautiful song. an absolute favorite of mine. but i wonder if the song's structure might have held it back from being a huge hit. the verses aren't heavily defined from the choruses. it might have sounded a bit too rambling for radio. but i wouldn't have changed a thing of it. it's just lovely. just maybe not the right vehicle to force into the typical requirements of 45 single

I do agree up to a point. The lyrics of “After You” definitely have universal appeal in that most of us have experienced those emotions at some point in our lives. It’s not a rousing heartbreaker in the fashion of “Touch Me In The Morning”, but it’s poignant simplicity might have ended up its biggest strength.

[sup_fan]

I do agree up to a point. The lyrics of “After You” definitely have universal appeal in that most of us have experienced those emotions at some point in our lives. It’s not a rousing heartbreaker in the fashion of “Touch Me In The Morning”, but it’s poignant simplicity might have ended up its biggest strength.

yeah i agree that not every song needs to thunderous climax. The First Time Ever I Saw Your Face doesn't and it's masterful. i agree that After You doesn't need that either. it might actually be marred by it.

song structure isn't universal but there is a typical formula that many, many hits follow:

intro
chorus
Verse 1
chorus
Verse 2
chorus
Bridge
Chorus/ending

most of the mega HDH hits followed this, love child, ladder, stoned love, nathan. heck even Walking sort of follows this formula. mountain doesn't but the single edit is closer to this. upside down really doesn't either but again, it's not mandatory

After You isn't totally without structure its just that the choruses are as clearly delineated as on something like You Can't Hurry Love. without structure, a song runs the risk of sort of meandering. frankly i think After You works with a bid of meandering. it sort of adds to the hopelessness and despair of the song

[TheMotownManiac]

last time I saw him
Ross, 78
Ross, 83
Red hot rhythm and blues
I love you

[TheMotownManiac]

i do agree though that motown could have used this opportunity to create a blockbuster. DR76 sold incredibly well and is enjoyable. but i'd never suggest it to a casual fan or someone as a "must have" for them to learn about and grow to appreciate DR. ironic given my earlier post about how it seems to easily capture the various sides of DR's talent and styles.

maybe because when LH hit, they just didn't really have any immediate, natural material ready. or at least enough of it to fill an album. One Love is fine enough but IMO it's album filler. not a single. although they could have probably mixed together a better single version than what was actually released, i don't see it as being a lost hit. maybe if Don't Leave Me This Way had actually been recorded on her. the 1-2 punch of these singles would have been mind blowing. in another thread did Bayou say High Inergy's "You Can't Turn Me Off" was intended for Diana? wow. i think it could have also been a super hot Sups song for MSS. but if Diana had recorded it, it would have been amazing here. So an album of LH, YCTMO, DLMTW, One Love, You're good my child, Ain't nothing but a maybe. then a ballad or two. Harmony might have fit pretty well. you still need another track or two

the various Masser tracks like After You, To Love Again, I thought it took etc. are too much of "super lush" ballads IMO. Masser had so much talent that frankly they should have allowed him to produce an entire album. the idea of the Soundtrack including DR leads on Side 1 and then movie music on Side 2 might have worked. but maybe the Masser album should have been the follow up to the revamped DR76 instead of the Richard Perry.


I just don’t know what to do with you two!
I can understand ran because he wasn’t around when it came out and there’s simply no way to go back in time and be in the moment. Sup? We usually agree on so much.
However…………

I’ve always felt this was the perfect Diana Ross album. I remember playing it the first time as if it were yesterday. I remember hearing it in the bars that night I loved every song, some more than others, and you could not beat the yardwork. It was the perfect package and I knew it was going to be a smash. I was giddy, listening to I thought it took a little time for the first time I was expecting to hear something new to follow up mahogany anyway, add one minute into the song I knew that would be the follow up . He just kind of had a natural progression to it. We were stunned at love, hangover and I know that kiss me now isn’t everyone’s taste, but it was the perfect track to follow love hangover, because nothing really could. Nowadays love hangovers just another dance record that in February 76 it was a rare, exotic, sumptuous dance record that sounds like nothing else. People fell in love with it instantly, and I don’t know who sequenced the album, but I think they did a great job and as much as I love, sorry doesn’t always make it right, I think that it probably didn’t belong, in the set because too many people were horrified at her doing a country song. I’m sure there were some people that didn’t like kiss me now I can’t recall any pushback from it at the time specifically, but there had to have been some. Mostly, everyone just loved the album to pieces. And it was the album I have been waiting for.. I love hearing your opposing viewpoints - makes me think.

I’m going to include the Rolling Stone review. I often disagree with their reviews, and this is just one person’s opinion, but I think it was pretty much the consensus back in the day. I don’t think the album has aged as well as others ..see below

https://soulfuldetroit.com/blob:https://soulfuldetroit.com/edd30694-dafe-4fb7-b9d6-ef53191a1d8c

[TheMotownManiac]

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[sup_fan]

I just don’t know what to do with you two!
I can understand ran because he wasn’t around when it came out and there’s simply no way to go back in time and be in the moment. Sup? We usually agree on so much.
However…………

I’ve always felt this was the perfect Diana Ross album. I remember playing it the first time as if it were yesterday. I remember hearing it in the bars that night I loved every song, some more than others, and you could not beat the yardwork. It was the perfect package and I knew it was going to be a smash. I was giddy, listening to I thought it took a little time for the first time I was expecting to hear something new to follow up mahogany anyway, add one minute into the song I knew that would be the follow up . He just kind of had a natural progression to it. We were stunned at love, hangover and I know that kiss me now isn’t everyone’s taste, but it was the perfect track to follow love hangover, because nothing really could. Nowadays love hangovers just another dance record that in February 76 it was a rare, exotic, sumptuous dance record that sounds like nothing else. People fell in love with it instantly, and I don’t know who sequenced the album, but I think they did a great job and as much as I love, sorry doesn’t always make it right, I think that it probably didn’t belong, in the set because too many people were horrified at her doing a country song. I’m sure there were some people that didn’t like kiss me now I can’t recall any pushback from it at the time specifically, but there had to have been some. Mostly, everyone just loved the album to pieces. And it was the album I have been waiting for.. I love hearing your opposing viewpoints - makes me think.

I’m going to include the Rolling Stone review.20428

now maniac - lol. did you scroll up and see my earlier post on the album? i think you're reading my second post. :)

i do agree that it's a very excellent album. I don't know that i'd call it a masterpiece though. or grammy award-winning. IMO Touch Me In the Morning [[the album and the song) should have been at least nominated. the entire TMITM package was perfect, and also ironic that it was so many producers. with LH, yes it was a radically new sound and song. but that artistic tone wasn't carried throughout the album. with TMITM you have the first pop music Diana was to record AFTER the amazing foray into jazz. plus she'd married and had a child. plus launched a movie career. so you had this totally different person in 73 and with all of those massive life changes, how would it come through in her music? the TMITM package couldn't have been a more perfect encapsulation of this new person

so now back to DR76. every track is great. but every track isn't this whole new thing. it isn't an entire artistic statement that's being made other than an excellent singer singing excellently to excellent songs. with The Boss lp later, you have, again, all of these personal influences coursing through the project. not every song is on the topic of defiance and rebellion but there's a commonality. DR76 just doesn't quite hit the mark even though it's a wonderful album.

[Spreadinglove21]

That's quite the review and at her best Diana Ross brought a regalness to mid to late 20th century pop music.

[lucky2012]

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I remember this review well. The 70's [college years] was when I read and gave some credence to Rolling Stone reviews. I was actually surprised at this review because Rolling Stone never seemed to hold The Supremes and especially Diana Ross in as high esteem as, say, the Ronettes or Martha & the Vandellas, let alone Aretha Franklin, Tina Turner or Gladys Knight, which was fine because these were all favorites of mine.

For me, it just confirmed my own high estimation of the album and Ross, which didn't need to be validated by a rock music magazine.

[Bluebrock]

Me to. I received the album for my thirteenth birthday and spent the entire summer of 76 wearing those grooves out while gazing at that stunning lip cover.
All the songs hang together well, and with three Diana classics what’s not to like.
My only gripe being i wish the poignant “After You” had been released as a single, at least in the UK.
I love After You but i never thought it as a potential hit single. Perhaps it could have followed Love Hangover in the UK or maybe after ITITALT which i absolutely love every bit as much as After You. The "new' version of One love in my lifetime was nowhere near as good as the original album version. Whatever were Motown thinking? Even Diana thought it a crazy decision to release the new version as a single.
Now i am going to have to listen to the album again and transport myself back to 1976.
Happy memories!

[Jaap]

What surprises me in the Rolling Stone review is that Dave Marsh does not mention Love Hangover. Including Love Hangover in it's 7:48 glory, without making the album a full disco album with "disco suites" like Gloria Gaynor's 1975 Never Can Say Goodbye and Donna Summer's 1975 Love To Love You Baby, is a masterstroke, bringing Diana Ross into the disco realm without suggesting that she is merely following Gaynor and Summer. I'm not a big fan of Kiss Me Now -- and it was such an odd B-side to the Love Hangover single -- but it does work, together with Smile, to highlight the versatility of Diana Ross. The overall album is such an eclectic mix, with only one element keeping it all together... the indeed "regal" star image of Ross, which is emphasized by the cover art. Marsh's comment about Ross as "present[ing] herself with taste and control" can be read in context of how the "disco divas" as Gaynor and Summer were perceived at the time. Sophistication would be an apt description of the album. I would have LOVED a full-blown Love Hangover disco album, but I do think Motown made a smart decision with this album to avoid that Ross would be pigeonholed in the disco diva category, as happened with Gaynor and Summer.

[Ollie9]

20429https://soulfuldetroit.com/blob:https://soulfuldetroit.com/f7a022c8-dc39-49b2-b7a0-a5c6bc29a610https://soulfuldetroit.com/blob:https://soulfuldetroit.com/90829e7e-b0cc-4609-8323-9124dbe728a3

Many thanks for posting this review MM. Any others would be most welcome.
The only review i can remember is from Black Echoes, a popular black music mag of the time. It was a lukewarm review under the heading ‘Diana’s Frozen Assets’. The only songs they really liked were “Hangover”, “After You” and “Nothing But A Maybe”. Perhaps this ties in with Ran’s preference for a more upbeat album.
At the time of the albums release there was no telling how a song such as “Love Hangover” might be received from Diana. I think it was a wise decision they went for a more eclectic set with something to fall back on.
It remains one my top 5 Diana albums.

[Boogiedown]

Leave it to Dave Marsh to hear disco in AINT NOTHIN BUT A MAYBE [??] while totally ignoring the glaring disco masterpiece found here.
Either it’s another typically flimsy review or this piece got edited, leaving out a segment .

[TheMotownManiac]

That's quite the review and at her best Diana Ross brought a regalness to mid to late 20th century pop music.

it’s not even the review, I’m looking for. There’s another one that I thought was Rolling Stone that said something to the effect, “this is the kind of album, Dionne Warwick, Natalie Cole, and Aretha Franklin you should be making “of course it could be dementia, however, I’m still looking for it because I remember that quote. The album was just perfect for that cold dark February day.

[TheMotownManiac]

[QUOTE=sup_fan;749653]now maniac - lol. did you scroll up and see my earlier post on the album? i think you're reading my second post. :)

i do agree that it's a very excellent album. I don't know that i'd call it a masterpiece though. or grammy award-winning. IMO Touch Me In the Morning [[the album and the song) should have been at least nominated. the entire TMITM package was perfect, and also ironic that it was so many producers. with LH, yes it was a radically new sound and song. but that artistic tone wasn't carried throughout the album. with TMITM you have the first pop music Diana was to record AFTER the amazing foray into jazz. plus she'd married and had a child. plus launched a movie career. so you had this totally different person in 73 and with all of those massive life changes, how would it come through in …

You’re right sup,I missed it. I agree with you about TMITM. When I played that album for the first time, I almost cried. Here was her first viable, can’t go up against anyone in the business, stupendous album. I know how much the first two Ashford & Simpson albums are loved, and revered, and I certainly love elements about them. But they weren’t competitive in the market TMITM was. I am convinced part of the reason is because people who bought the album on the strength of the single, weren’t disappointed when they heard the other tracks. Side one I had, arguably, five tracks worthy of single release. Side two contained the master vees, brown, baby/save the children. How I wish that would have been promoted, edited and sent out as a single. It might’ve been a smash, or I might’ve been a flop, but it would be very interesting to know. Even the cover art, which, normally I would feel cheated. If that’s all the image we’re going to get of her, fit the mood of the single so much that I figured Motown must have a new art department. I mean, this is only three years after greatest hits, volume three, magnificent, 71 and two. Anyway, diana ross 76, with two obvious number one records, and another certain top 10 was even more competitive.

[RanRan79]

I'm not a big fan of Kiss Me Now -- and it was such an odd B-side to the Love Hangover single -- but it does work, together with Smile, to highlight the versatility of Diana Ross. The overall album is such an eclectic mix, with only one element keeping it all together... the indeed "regal" star image of Ross, which is emphasized by the cover art.

But did we need to highlight Diana's versatility yet again? I feel like anyone who didn't recognize how versatile of an artist Diana Ross was by 1976 just didn't deserve to find out.:p She had been providing evidence of her versatility to the general public since 1964. I guess I can overlook "Kiss Me Now", but "Smile" was going too far. It had no business being packaged with these other songs IMO.

[RanRan79]

Many thanks for posting this review MM. Any others would be most welcome.
The only review i can remember is from Black Echoes, a popular black music mag of the time. It was a lukewarm review under the heading ‘Diana’s Frozen Assets’. The only songs they really liked were “Hangover”, “After You” and “Nothing But A Maybe”. Perhaps this ties in with Ran’s preference for a more upbeat album.
At the time of the albums release there was no telling how a song such as “Love Hangover” might be received from Diana. I think it was a wise decision they went for a more eclectic set with something to fall back on.
It remains one my top 5 Diana albums.

Ollie my thoughts weren't that the album necessarily had to be more upbeat- although I guess my use of the word "funky" probably gave that impression- but that it needed some more 70s...soul. I love "Took A Little Time" and don't have any problem with it on the album. If they were gonna include "Mahogany", "After You", "Smile", then give the whole album to Masser. This wasn't the time for yet another hodgepodge. But at the end of the day, I'm guessing off the strength of the two #1s, the album succeeded in putting money in Motown's account and keeping Diana Ross relevant, which was ultimately the goal. So who am I to argue?:cool:

[RanRan79]

it’s not even the review, I’m looking for. There’s another one that I thought was Rolling Stone that said something to the effect, “this is the kind of album, Dionne Warwick, Natalie Cole, and Aretha Franklin you should be making “of course it could be dementia, however, I’m still looking for it because I remember that quote. The album was just perfect for that cold dark February day.

Which is insane to me because both Aretha and Natalie's albums released that year do it for me much more than Diana's album. But of course it all comes down to personal taste, so I guess not so insane after all.:cool:

[RanRan79]

brown, baby/save the children. How I wish that would have been promoted, edited and sent out as a single. It might’ve been a smash, or I might’ve been a flop, but it would be very interesting to know.

I believe I said this exact thing once in the forum, that "Brown Baby/Save the Children" would have been interesting as a single. I could see it hitting big, but I could also see it flopping. Would love to hear someone tackle a single edit for it.

[Ollie9]

Ollie my thoughts weren't that the album necessarily had to be more upbeat- although I guess my use of the word "funky" probably gave that impression- but that it needed some more 70s...soul. I love "Took A Little Time" and don't have any problem with it on the album. If they were gonna include "Mahogany", "After You", "Smile", then give the whole album to Masser. This wasn't the time for yet another hodgepodge. But at the end of the day, I'm guessing off the strength of the two #1s, the album succeeded in putting money in Motown's account and keeping Diana Ross relevant, which was ultimately the goal. So who am I to argue?:cool:

I think the time for a more funky, dance orientated album should have been in the followup to ”DR76”. The fact the public welcomed “Love Hangover ” with open arms should have given Motown some indication as to where she should be heading.
”Getting Ready For Love” though a really nice song, doesn’t quite cut the mustard....imo.

[sup_fan]

[QUOTE=sup_fan;749653]now maniac - lol. did you scroll up and see my earlier post on the album? i think you're reading my second post. :)

i do agree that it's a very excellent album. I don't know that i'd call it a masterpiece though. or grammy award-winning. IMO Touch Me In the Morning [[the album and the song) should have been at least nominated. the entire TMITM package was perfect, and also ironic that it was so many producers. with LH, yes it was a radically new sound and song. but that artistic tone wasn't carried throughout the album. with TMITM you have the first pop music Diana was to record AFTER the amazing foray into jazz. plus she'd married and had a child. plus launched a movie career. so you had this totally different person in 73 and with all of those massive life changes, how would it come through in …

You’re right sup,I missed it. I agree with you about TMITM. When I played that album for the first time, I almost cried. Here was her first viable, can’t go up against anyone in the business, stupendous album. I know how much the first two Ashford & Simpson albums are loved, and revered, and I certainly love elements about them. But they weren’t competitive in the market TMITM was. I am convinced part of the reason is because people who bought the album on the strength of the single, weren’t disappointed when they heard the other tracks. Side one I had, arguably, five tracks worthy of single release. Side two contained the master vees, brown, baby/save the children. How I wish that would have been promoted, edited and sent out as a single. It might’ve been a smash, or I might’ve been a flop, but it would be very interesting to know. Even the cover art, which, normally I would feel cheated. If that’s all the image we’re going to get of her, fit the mood of the single so much that I figured Motown must have a new art department. I mean, this is only three years after greatest hits, volume three, magnificent, 71 and two. Anyway, diana ross 76, with two obvious number one records, and another certain top 10 was even more competitive.

the album graphics for TMITM are truly perfect. supposedly it was art design for the cancelled Blue project, of which several tracks were used for TMITM and other albums. Little Girl Blue on TMITM is IMO one of the most amazing DR songs ever recorded. so agree that Motown dropped the ball on TMITM by not continuing to push it, release a second or even third single!

i think the art for The Boss is the my favorite of all and damn! it couldn't be more appropriate for the music. Randy's description of her looking that a true 80s Woman was spot on. showing off some leg and chest, no sequins but still so utterly glamorous, the first time with the mane of hair. a defiant look that is still suggestive and appealing. it's not cold or threatening

and the art for DR76 is amazing too. that photo session was so unique and magical. i think the look works perfect with the released music but it also would have worked with my suggestion of reimagining the music a bit.

[sup_fan]

But did we need to highlight Diana's versatility yet again? I feel like anyone who didn't recognize how versatile of an artist Diana Ross was by 1976 just didn't deserve to find out.:p She had been providing evidence of her versatility to the general public since 1964. I guess I can overlook "Kiss Me Now", but "Smile" was going too far. It had no business being packaged with these other songs IMO.

ah but see maybe you DID with this album. sure diehard fans were more than well aware of her talent and capabilities. but LH was such a phenomenon that it opened her up to a whole new fanbase. new fans that were too young to care much about her back in the 60s now had a reason to care. they might have never even paid attention to what she had been doing before

[sup_fan]

I think the time for a more funky, dance orientated album should have been in the followup to ”DR76”. The fact the public welcomed “Love Hangover ” with open arms should have given Motown some indication as to where she should be heading.
”Getting Ready For Love” though a really nice song, doesn’t quite cut the mustard....imo.

the whole Baby it's me project was mis-timed. everything about it is stellar but to release in fall 77 right on top of Saturday Night Fever was a terrible move. the dance tracks on it just weren't anywhere near powerful enough and fun, light pop tunes were not what people were wanting. BIM would have been perfect in 75 or hell even 81 instead of WDFFIL. you could have simply held the entire project and released it in the early 80s

so you're absolutely right. with the success of LH, motown should have gone full-on disco with her and made a major smash. and i guess they sort of tried with the subsequent Hal Davis productions and then the HDH stuff. but all of it was far inferior to LH. it's like they shot their shot with that first one and had nothing else left for her

[Ollie9]

the whole Baby it's me project was mis-timed. everything about it is stellar but to release in fall 77 right on top of Saturday Night Fever was a terrible move. the dance tracks on it just weren't anywhere near powerful enough and fun, light pop tunes were not what people were wanting. BIM would have been perfect in 75 or hell even 81 instead of WDFFIL. you could have simply held the entire project and released it in the early 80s

so you're absolutely right. with the success of LH, motown should have gone full-on disco with her and made a major smash. and i guess they sort of tried with the subsequent Hal Davis productions and then the HDH stuff. but all of it was far inferior to LH. it's like they shot their shot with that first one and had nothing else left for her

The priority should have been in finding another “Love hangover”. It’s odd when you consider the high quality dance material HDH were producing on the Supremes that Diana was never taken in that direction for a complete album.
“Your Love Is So Good For Me” might have done well with a funked up remix to breath some oomph into it. The 12” version is a lot better but even so.

[Spreadinglove21]

The priority should have been in finding another “Love hangover”. It’s odd when you consider the high quality dance material HDH were producing on the Supremes that Diana was never taken in that direction for a complete album.
“Your Love Is So Good For Me” might have done well with a funked up remix to breath some oomph into it. The 12” version is a lot better but even so.

Then again the Mary Scherrie and Susaye album which is chock full of Holland Brother Disco songs, didn't even chart so maybe that's why Motown didn't go full Disco with Diana Ross albums? In a way, it may have helped her as she didn't get saddled with a Disco diva tag.

[Ollie9]

Then again the Mary Scherrie and Susaye album which is chock full of Holland Brother Disco songs, didn't even chart so maybe that's why Motown didn't go full Disco with Diana Ross albums? In a way, it may have helped her as she didn't get saddled with a Disco diva tag.

As opposed to Diana herself, the Supremes profile was by then quite low.
I don’t see why you might think she would be considered a disco diva by simply recording a few more songs in that vein.
As mentioned, the “BIM” album was all wrong for the time being why most of it’s singles died a death.

[sup_fan]

The priority should have been in finding another “Love hangover”. It’s odd when you consider the high quality dance material HDH were producing on the Supremes that Diana was never taken in that direction for a complete album.
“Your Love Is So Good For Me” might have done well with a funked up remix to breath some oomph into it. The 12” version is a lot better but even so.

IMO the quality of the HDH productions for the supremes was FAR higher than the music they recorded with Diana. frankly i find the Diana tracks to be second rate, at best. nowhere near the quality she needed and laughable follow ups to LH. I can completely understand why they were canned

Greg Wright sort of tapped into something with You Were The One. it's a great song. i don't know if it's at LH level though

[sup_fan]

Then again the Mary Scherrie and Susaye album which is chock full of Holland Brother Disco songs, didn't even chart so maybe that's why Motown didn't go full Disco with Diana Ross albums? In a way, it may have helped her as she didn't get saddled with a Disco diva tag.

i think the MSS project suffered from a variety of things working against it.

1. the wrong first single - Wheel is a fine dance floor track but not radio friendly
2. disjointed campaign with the djs and discos - with the HE set, Walking was really the sole tune the djs were focusing on. sure the title track got some action. but everyone really was focused on Walking. i don't know if this was a strategically planned effort by the group and it's management [[doubtful lol) or just the fact that Walking is head and shoulders above everything else on the lp. it's the clear standout. with MSS, according to the disco charts, it was all over the place. some focused on Wheel. some on Wheel and LYG. or Wheel/LYG/love i never knew or only LYG and LINK or LYG and Don't wanna be tied down, etc. without having that focus in the clubs, momentum on 1 song never materialized and so the hopes of a crossover hit dimmed
3. mary's announcement of leaving - the lp came out in mid to late oct. according to mary's book, she announced her departure from the group in mid Dec. at which point apparently motown stopped all promotion
4. berry managing the group - this is certainly speculation but if mary had declined berry's offer, that would have done nothing to garner any support or interest from him or the label

[Ollie9]

IMO the quality of the HDH productions for the supremes was FAR higher than the music they recorded with Diana. frankly i find the Diana tracks to be second rate, at best. nowhere near the quality she needed and laughable follow ups to LH. I can completely understand why they were canned

Greg Wright sort of tapped into something with You Were The One. it's a great song. i don't know if it's at LH level though

That’s what doesn’t make sense. The songs HDH recorded on Diana were generally pretty awful, with their production on the Supremes albums being both slick and contemporary.
Perhaps Diana just hated dance music.

[masterblaster]

I bought The ‘Last Time’ album when it was first released in 1975 and always considered it an okay ‘middling’ album, playing it only occasionally. It spawned two top 40 hits in the UK, the title track and ‘Love Me’.
I recently acquired the album on CD and now have a new respect for it. Diana explores different genres throughout the album, from Country, ballads and gospel. In addition to the two ‘hits’, I like ‘Sleepin’, ‘Stone Liberty’ and for me, the stand out track is the gospel tinged ‘You’. I just love the way the song builds to an all out crescendo and is one of those lost gems that could have made the album a classic.

[RanRan79]

I think the time for a more funky, dance orientated album should have been in the followup to ”DR76”. The fact the public welcomed “Love Hangover ” with open arms should have given Motown some indication as to where she should be heading.
”Getting Ready For Love” though a really nice song, doesn’t quite cut the mustard....imo.

Oh I definitely think the follow up album should have been a dance album. I guess for me DR76 should've sounded more like a Natalie Cole album than what we got. Lol

[RanRan79]

As mentioned, the “BIM” album was all wrong for the time being why most of it’s singles died a death.

I disagree. The real problem with BIM is that Motown bungled the release schedules for both the album and the singles. It was one big "who the hell is making the decisions at Motown" piss show. The singles did fairly well in some markets. The problem was that the album was on the street for awhile before Motown even dropped the first single. By then various markets were playing various songs. The singles started dropping and by then it was too late for a national hit.

I recall someone making the argument that the BIM project sounded like music that would be made a couple years later. I actually agree with that. I also think that worked in BIM's favor, as Diana was ahead of the game. I don't think we can accurately judge how well received the singles were because of the way Motown messed it up. With some of the dumb decisions made regarding Diana from 1970 onwards, it's a wonder the lady ever had a hit at all.

[sup_fan]

That’s what doesn’t make sense. The songs HDH recorded on Diana were generally pretty awful, with their production on the Supremes albums being both slick and contemporary.
Perhaps Diana just hated dance music.

there might be some timing issues too. plus the Hollands had been working closely with Scherrie at Invictus. the early HDH disco songs with the Sups are fine but not special. even much of HE is still what i call "generic disco" Only You and High Energy are both great songs but it's possible to hear plenty of others singing them. Walking is unique and special. the power of the lyrics fits perfectly with the power of Scherrie's voice. and the exciting backing vocals are so well suited for the supremes and the tone of the song.

i think it was that success which gave the Scherrie lineup a "sound" and they developed MS&S off of that.

with Diana, they were probably just exploring different things that they had available. rather than tapping into a new custom sound

[Ollie9]

there might be some timing issues too. plus the Hollands had been working closely with Scherrie at Invictus. the early HDH disco songs with the Sups are fine but not special. even much of HE is still what i call "generic disco" Only You and High Energy are both great songs but it's possible to hear plenty of others singing them. Walking is unique and special. the power of the lyrics fits perfectly with the power of Scherrie's voice. and the exciting backing vocals are so well suited for the supremes and the tone of the song.

i think it was that success which gave the Scherrie lineup a "sound" and they developed MS&S off of that.

with Diana, they were probably just exploring different things that they had available. rather than tapping into a new custom sound

I was thinking more of “MS&S” with its eclectic mix of songs and high production values. “Fire Don’t Burn” doesn't really compare, while i have never considered “BIM” choc full of potential hit singles despite its quality.

[sup_fan]

I was thinking more of “MS&S” with its eclectic mix of songs and high production values. “Fire Don’t Burn” doesn't really compare, while i have never considered “BIM” choc full of potential hit singles despite its quality.

no i completely agree. MS&S is top notch but my point was that HDH got to that point AFTER quite a bit of trial and error. Where Do I Go From Here is fine enough. definitely better than Fire Don't Burn. but still it's not in the same league as the MS&S set.

with the diana tunes, it seems to me that they just went into the studio and had her record whatever. they hadn't had time to explore and come up with a new sound

[sup_fan]

I disagree. The real problem with BIM is that Motown bungled the release schedules for both the album and the singles. It was one big "who the hell is making the decisions at Motown" piss show. The singles did fairly well in some markets. The problem was that the album was on the street for awhile before Motown even dropped the first single. By then various markets were playing various songs. The singles started dropping and by then it was too late for a national hit.

I recall someone making the argument that the BIM project sounded like music that would be made a couple years later. I actually agree with that. I also think that worked in BIM's favor, as Diana was ahead of the game. I don't think we can accurately judge how well received the singles were because of the way Motown messed it up. With some of the dumb decisions made regarding Diana from 1970 onwards, it's a wonder the lady ever had a hit at all.

i think market timing definitely played a role here. once Sat Night Fever was on the streets, the entire BIM set was just too tame. SNF was such a major cultural change. you could almost liken it to the arrival of the Beatles to the US in 64. sure american artists were still releasing good things but they just went nowhere due to the entire pop market audience shifting to something else.

[Ollie9]

I disagree. The real problem with BIM is that Motown bungled the release schedules for both the album and the singles. It was one big "who the hell is making the decisions at Motown" piss show. The singles did fairly well in some markets. The problem was that the album was on the street for awhile before Motown even dropped the first single. By then various markets were playing various songs. The singles started dropping and by then it was too late for a national hit.

I recall someone making the argument that the BIM project sounded like music that would be made a couple years later. I actually agree with that. I also think that worked in BIM's favor, as Diana was ahead of the game. I don't think we can accurately judge how well received the singles were because of the way Motown messed it up. With some of the dumb decisions made regarding Diana from 1970 onwards, it's a wonder the lady ever had a hit at all.

It might have had some effect, but i still don’t consider the album to be choc full of potential hit singles. The fact that nearly all the singles died a death in the UK, normally one of her strongest markets gives some indication as to their commercial potential.
Had the album been released in 81 it would be following the biggest selling album of her career. “You Got It” is no “Upside Down” and “Getting Ready For Love” no “Mirror Mirror”. It would have been just to tame a follow up.
Hit singles are not always an indication of a good album, with “BIM” remaining a classy affair without them.

[TheMotownManiac]

I believe I said this exact thing once in the forum, that "Brown Baby/Save the Children" would have been interesting as a single. I could see it hitting big, but I could also see it flopping. Would love to hear someone tackle a single edit for it.

I see it the exact, same way, but hit or flop, it might prove to be an important single. I’m surprised Deke didn’t do a single edit, the medley was his idea when he sequenced the album.

[TheMotownManiac]

the whole Baby it's me project was mis-timed. everything about it is stellar but to release in fall 77 right on top of Saturday Night Fever was a terrible move. the dance tracks on it just weren't anywhere near powerful enough and fun, light pop tunes were not what people were wanting. BIM would have been perfect in 75 or hell even 81 instead of WDFFIL. you could have simply held the entire project and released it in the early 80s

so you're absolutely right. with the success of LH, motown should have gone full-on disco with her and made a major smash. and i guess they sort of tried with the subsequent Hal Davis productions and then the HDH stuff. but all of it was far inferior to LH. it's like they shot their shot with that first one and had nothing else left for her

They did that. Exactly that how dave is came up with don’t leave me this Way and ross refused to record it. You can lead a stubborn Mule to water………. I think Thelma Houston was absolutely ideal for the song, but Diana would have hit with it also. Maybe not as big. She like to doing a variety of songs.

I think that Saturday night fever wasn’t big competition because it didn’t come out until Christmas time and baby. It’s me was came out in September. That was plenty of time to release a couple singles. I would’ve released top of the world in July. Then a follow up in September, and then the album I probably would have released come in from the rain second and a reworked same love that made me laugh. If those were hitting, OK, fourth single would’ve been baby it’s me. I’m very curious to see how it would’ve done.

[florence]

I still don’t consider the album to be choc full of potential hit singles. The fact that nearly all the singles died a death in the UK, normally one of her strongest markets gives some indication as to their commercial potential.

Isn't this the period Bluebrock has told us someone at EMI was actively trying to sabotage Diana's UK career?

BIM was the really odd album in the UK which never charted but which remained just outside for a long period and wasn't far short of Gold status.

Interestingly Top Of The World and Your Love Is So Good For Me never made the Official chart but they did make the Gallup chart.

I'd put Touch Me In The Morning album north of middling.

In addition to Touch Me and Life, Leave A Little Room and I Won't Last A Day would surely have been at least top 20 although it looked as is they were ready to go with We Need You as the 3rd single - I have reservations about this, I think the lyrics may have been too dark for the UK public.

I think Diana does a good job on Imagine but what ruins the album for me are the other three tracks Little Girl Blue, my Baby and Brown Baby/Save The Children, not for me at all.

I wouldn't even class diana as middling - yes Upside Down was brilliant and My Old Piano was pretty good but didn't like the rest of the tracks not even I'm Coming Out.

[sup_fan]

They did that. Exactly that how dave is came up with don’t leave me this Way and ross refused to record it. You can lead a stubborn Mule to water………. I think Thelma Houston was absolutely ideal for the song, but Diana would have hit with it also. Maybe not as big. She like to doing a variety of songs.

I think that Saturday night fever wasn’t big competition because it didn’t come out until Christmas time and baby. It’s me was came out in September. That was plenty of time to release a couple singles. I would’ve released top of the world in July. Then a follow up in September, and then the album I probably would have released come in from the rain second and a reworked same love that made me laugh. If those were hitting, OK, fourth single would’ve been baby it’s me. I’m very curious to see how it would’ve done.

How Deep Is Your Love was released in Sept 77. the full album soundtrack in Nov and was More than a Woman. plus You Should Be Dancing had been released the year prior and was now coming back strong [[though not officially released as a single). Plus there was just huge buzz about the Bee Gees, the film and everything associated with it.

BIM and Getting Ready for Love were issued in Sept and Oct 77 respectively. a single usually takes a month or so to enter the charts so the timing really is just totally off here. maybe if the releases had been spring or even early summer but still, this music was just a bit too safe and "nice" for what was going on. it didn't push Diana into anything new and exciting.

[Boogiedown]

For Berry Gordy to miss the boat when he was actively trying to develop Motown's film empire seems hard to believe. Maybe being west coast didn't help, disco erupted out of NYC. But once SNF hit, he should've noticed. Maybe he was just too old, and things like PIPPIN attracted him instead.

But Motown's embarrassingly limp participation in THANK GOD ITS FRIDAY proved they hadn't caught on.... even when some of their biggest records recently were disco. Pity that with the ready made roster of performers they had, they didn't use it as vehicle for movie and music success. As stupid as TGIF was, so was SNF [and so was MAHOGANY].... so the standard to beat seemed a completely doable target.
"BOOGIE DOWN" was begging to be their cash in project .... especially with Diana so eager to be a film star and with nowhere to go...

[RanRan79]

i think market timing definitely played a role here. once Sat Night Fever was on the streets, the entire BIM set was just too tame. SNF was such a major cultural change. you could almost liken it to the arrival of the Beatles to the US in 64. sure american artists were still releasing good things but they just went nowhere due to the entire pop market audience shifting to something else.

I think you're giving SNF too much power. Fleetwood Mac and Linda Ronstadt finished off 1977 and into 1978. Yeah, no denying how huge SNF became, with a ton of weeks at #1, but a bit of hodgepodge artists with number one albums afterwards. And don't forget, when BIM dropped, Debby Boone was on her way to number one for ten whole weeks...a song about as far from SNF as one might get. Lol

Disco really had it's coming out party as 1978 got underway, but it didn't force other artists and songs into obscurity. People outside of disco were still hitting and selling big. When it was all said and done, BIM still did respectfully well, and that's with Motown's bungling of the singles. Imagine how much better it might have done if Motown didn't screw it up.

[RanRan79]

what ruins the album for me are the other three tracks Little Girl Blue, my Baby and Brown Baby/Save The Children, not for me at all.


You are officially dead to me.:p

[RanRan79]

How Deep Is Your Love was released in Sept 77. the full album soundtrack in Nov and was More than a Woman. plus You Should Be Dancing had been released the year prior and was now coming back strong [[though not officially released as a single). Plus there was just huge buzz about the Bee Gees, the film and everything associated with it.

BIM and Getting Ready for Love were issued in Sept and Oct 77 respectively. a single usually takes a month or so to enter the charts so the timing really is just totally off here. maybe if the releases had been spring or even early summer but still, this music was just a bit too safe and "nice" for what was going on. it didn't push Diana into anything new and exciting.

I think BIM's singles had a chance but how could they win when different markets were playing different album cuts at the same time because no singles were released for more than a month? By the time the singles dropped, some areas had already played it enough off the album that it didn't make sense to start playing it again just because Motown finally issued it as a single.

To my ears, BIM doesn't sound like much of anything that was out at the time. Maybe the ballads are of it's time, but the other songs come across as new. Even "All Night Lover" with it's throwback Supremes style seems pretty hip. I don't fault Motown for going in this direction with Diana in 1977. I fault them for not having their stuff together in giving the album the chance it needed to follow DR76's success. Diana78 on the other hand was a complete mess. It really should have been a breakout album had they gone with a disco lineup, maybe one ballad on each side if they were too scared to go full on disco.

[sup_fan]

I think you're giving SNF too much power. Fleetwood Mac and Linda Ronstadt finished off 1977 and into 1978. Yeah, no denying how huge SNF became, with a ton of weeks at #1, but a bit of hodgepodge artists with number one albums afterwards. And don't forget, when BIM dropped, Debby Boone was on her way to number one for ten whole weeks...a song about as far from SNF as one might get. Lol

Disco really had it's coming out party as 1978 got underway, but it didn't force other artists and songs into obscurity. People outside of disco were still hitting and selling big. When it was all said and done, BIM still did respectfully well, and that's with Motown's bungling of the singles. Imagine how much better it might have done if Motown didn't screw it up.

now i might be jumping the gun a bit by saying SNF was starting to wipe everything else out in fall of 77. and it isn't that no other song or music broke through. but facts are facts Ran and you're wrong on this one

the soundtrack ended up selling over 40 million copies. was the biggest selling soundtrack until The Bodyguard and the biggest selling record until Thriller. it topped the record chart for 24 straight weeks

How deep is your love - went #1 and was in the top 10 for 17 weeks! selling nearly 2 million copies in the US

Stayin Alive - wasn't even released as a single yet but the trailers during the fall of 77 for SNF forced the singles release. it too topped the charts for weeks and sold nearly 4 million copies.

Night Fever - #1 for 8 weeks selling 2.5 million. and for 5 of the weeks NF was #1, SA was #2. and HDIYL was still in the top 10

i don't disagree that the soundtrack is a bit all over the place. some tunes are amazing and some are... But this thing just took music industry by storm. Fleetwood's Rumours was a huge phenomenon too. but at the beginning of the year. it was released in early Feb 77 and the final single was released in Sept 77. again, maybe if BIM was released in spring 77 it would have had time to find it's own place. totally agree motown's promotional efforts were haphazard.

[sup_fan]

I think BIM's singles had a chance but how could they win when different markets were playing different album cuts at the same time because no singles were released for more than a month? By the time the singles dropped, some areas had already played it enough off the album that it didn't make sense to start playing it again just because Motown finally issued it as a single.

To my ears, BIM doesn't sound like much of anything that was out at the time. Maybe the ballads are of it's time, but the other songs come across as new. Even "All Night Lover" with it's throwback Supremes style seems pretty hip. I don't fault Motown for going in this direction with Diana in 1977. I fault them for not having their stuff together in giving the album the chance it needed to follow DR76's success. Diana78 on the other hand was a complete mess. It really should have been a breakout album had they gone with a disco lineup, maybe one ballad on each side if they were too scared to go full on disco.

i agree that BIM doesn't sound like anything else in late 77 or into 78. maybe a good way to describe the situation is similar to the mid60s music. by 66 and 67, music was becoming less cute. rock was kicking in more, bands and groups were getting more aggressive with their sound. HDH definitely became more adventurous with things like Love is Here, YKMHO, Reflections, 7 rooms of gloom, bernadette, etc.

top songs of 78 include the SNF tunes, Andy Gibb, various songs from Grease, Dance Dance Dance by chic, Boogie Oogie Oogie, two out of three aint bad, last dance, use ta be my girl, hot blooded, we are the champions. As i've said, mabye the BIM set was just too cute and not adventurous enough.

[Boogiedown]

when you have at your fingertips Stevie and Marvin and Diana and Eddie ,and all those songwriters, this is an opportunity tailor made. Combine your existing music talent with your film aspirations. Not with a SNF knock off . Something more clever, along the lines of CAR WASH. Look what Whitfield did with that !!

[Boogiedown]

For me the SNF album was mostly ho-hum. It was just in the right place at the right time for an under informed audience looking for something new. It was amazing working in the record store at the time. For every three people in line at the register, two of them had the SNF ST.

[sup_fan]

For me the SNF album was mostly ho-hum. It was just in the right place at the right time for an under informed audience looking for something new. It was amazing working in the record store at the time. For every three people in line at the register, two of them had the SNF ST.

i agree. and don't forget it was a DOUBLE ALBUM!! problem is there's more than enough material for it to have been 1 disc, although maybe if you dropped Jive and You Should Be Dancing since they were previously released songs. all of the instrumental stuff isn't very exciting. or you play it once and then moved the needle. but i guess they needed the tunes to fill in the rest of the album

[Boogiedown]

i agree. and don't forget it was a DOUBLE ALBUM!! problem is there's more than enough material for it to have been 1 disc, although maybe if you dropped Jive and You Should Be Dancing since they were previously released songs. all of the instrumental stuff isn't very exciting. or you play it once and then moved the needle. but i guess they needed the tunes to fill in the rest of the album
Yes a two record set, brilliant. Neil Bogart surely took notes. What people wanted most was the Bee Gees stuff ...

Nobody could have foreseen how that soundtrack would take off and over. Would be so interesting to learn how it was compiled and by who and how much thought was put into it. I'm sure KC was kicking himself for not contributing a stronger cut than BOOGIE SHOES. But , was also at the same time glad he got something on there.

A diverse array was tapped into. Was Motown approached if they were interested in getting something included??

added from wiki:


The Bee Gees's involvement in the film did not begin until post-production. As John Travolta [[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Travolta) asserted, "The Bee Gees [[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bee_Gees) weren't even involved in the movie in the beginning ... I was dancing to Stevie Wonder [[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stevie_Wonder) and Boz Scaggs [[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boz_Scaggs)."[8] [[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Saturday_Night_Fever_[[soundtrack)#cite_note-Kashner-8)

[sup_fan]

Yes a two record set, brilliant. Neil Bogart surely took notes. What people wanted most was the Bee Gees stuff ...

Nobody could have foreseen how that soundtrack would take off and over. Would be so interesting to learn how it was compiled and by who and how much thought was put into it. I'm sure KC was kicking himself for not contributing a stronger cut than BOOGIE SHOES. But , was also at the same time glad he got something on there.

A diverse array was tapped into. Was Motown approached if they were interested in getting something included??

added from wiki:

given how tepid motown's interest was in disco, i'd be surprised if the SNF people wanted to do much with them. however you did have some huge hits like LH, Don't leave me this way, Walking, got to give it up. maybe the problem was motown didn't have a strong reputation in the area of disco even though they certainly had a lot of hits. they hadn't really produced a big disco LP. DR 76 was big but not as a disco album. Any Way You Like It [[thelma's album that included Don't Leave Me) wasn't a mega force.

[Boogiedown]

given how tepid motown's interest was in disco, i'd be surprised if the SNF people wanted to do much with them. however you did have some huge hits like LH, Don't leave me this way, Walking, got to give it up. maybe the problem was motown didn't have a strong reputation in the area of disco even though they certainly had a lot of hits. they hadn't really produced a big disco LP. DR 76 was big but not as a disco album. Any Way You Like It [[thelma's album that included Don't Leave Me) wasn't a mega force.

Motown was a bit wishy washy concerning disco.They tried, or did they. They even put out those special disco compilations that just seemed to have little to offer in their content. Again, they tried, or did they ? Those types of missteps probably suggested to them it wasn't worth the effort.

Since SNF was willing to go a little retro in some of the selections [a huge no no in discoland where it was all about the very latest new record] such as DISCO INFERNO, then Motown had a real treasure to offer right off with The Originals DOWN TO LOVE TOWN which went to #1 on the disco chart but got stiffed everywhere else. Like DISCO INFERNO, that one could have gotten new life and the attention it deserved if it had found its way to that ST.

I added this to my post above:



wiki: The Bee Gees's involvement in the film did not begin until post-production. As John Travolta [[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Travolta) asserted, "The Bee Gees [[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bee_Gees) weren't even involved in the movie in the beginning ... I was dancing to Stevie Wonder [[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stevie_Wonder) and Boz Scaggs [[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boz_Scaggs)."[8] [[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Saturday_Night_Fever_[[soundtrack)#cite_note-Kashner-8)

because if they were already using Stevie's music to develop the dancing, surely they approached Motown with an interest in actually using it???

[sup_fan]

Motown was a bit wishy washy concerning disco.They tried, or did they. They even put out those special disco compilations that just seemed to have little to offer in their content. Again, they tried, or did they ? Those types of missteps probably suggested to them it wasn't worth the effort.

Since SNF was willing to go a little retro in some of the selections [a huge no no in discoland where it was all about the very latest new record] such as DISCO INFERNO, then Motown had a real treasure to offer right off with The Originals DOWN TO LOVE TOWN which went to #1 on the disco chart but got stiffed everywhere else. Like DISCO INFERNO, that one could have gotten new life and the attention it deserved if it had found its way to that ST.

I added this to my post above:




because if they were already using Stevie's music to develop the dancing, surely they approached Motown with an interest in actually using it???

Robert Stigwood produced Saturday Night Fever and also owned RSO records, which the Bee Gees were signed to and which released the soundtrack to SNF. so i would imagine the idea of ever using anyone BUT the Bee Gees and other RSO stars was probably rather remote. clearly they did use some though. Stigwood was an Aussie living in London. and with RSO being an independent label, maybe there was some competition or something between the independents.

given he was in the UK and from Australia, i went to see how the motown acts did over there with disco music. these are just the pop charts. i don't know if there were separate disco charts

Thelma Don't Leave Me - #13 UK, #6 Australia
Love Hangover - #10 UK, #67 Australia
Love Machine - #3 UK, #89 Australia
Dancing Machine - couldn't find this one on wikipedia
I Wish Stevie Wonder - #5 UK, #51 Australia
got to give it up - #7 UK, no Australia info


none of the Supremes' disco tunes charted in UK or Australia

[Boogiedown]

interesting. good stuff. how were the Bees Gees faring there at this time?

True about Stigwood and the British angle ...but Saturday Night Fever was all about NYC ...and was based on a magazine article describing the scene in where ? [maybe the New Yorker?] . [This article was later admitted to be mostly imaginary] He therefore really should have included some music by acts like Crown Heights Affair or Patrick Adams.

The Bee Gees claim they were writing the material in Europe [France?] without a thought to the movie or even disco [lol] in their compositions... they had it , so they used it ....

Not sure why Stigwood didn't delve more into what was happening in the UK,

would love to have seen a similar approach to the Northern Soul scene, or maybe the glam scene or punk rock. Instead Stigwood turned his attention to more Americana ....GREASE.

Although some great disco emerged from the UK, they were late to the dance party overall. The 'Serious' dancers/clubbers [is that an oxymoron?] were into Northern Soul and were highly resistant to disco. Punkers hated it. There was not a major disco there until 1980 , Heaven, DJ'd by, incidentally, Ian Levine , the one DJ who saw the bigger picture.

[sup_fan]

interesting. good stuff. how were the Bees Gees faring there at this time?

True about Stigwood and the British angle ...but Saturday Night Fever was all about NYC ...and was based on a magazine article describing the scene in where ? [maybe the New Yorker?] . [This article was later admitted to be mostly imaginary] He therefore really should have included some music by acts like Crown Heights Affair or Patrick Adams.

The Bee Gees claim they were writing the material in Europe [France?] without a thought to the movie or even disco [lol] in their compositions... they had it , so they used it ....

Not sure why Stigwood didn't delve more into what was happening in the UK,

would love to have seen a similar approach to the Northern Soul scene, or maybe the glam scene or punk rock. Instead Stigwood turned his attention to more Americana ....GREASE.

Although some great disco emerged from the UK, they were late to the dance party overall. The 'Serious' dancers/clubbers [is that an oxymoron?] were into Northern Soul and were highly resistant to disco. Punkers hated it. There was not a major disco there until 1980 , Heaven, DJ'd by, incidentally, Ian Levine , the one DJ who saw the bigger picture.

the Bee Gees were definitely scoring hits as their albums pre SNF were big and they were scoring chart successes with Jive Talking and You Should Be Dancing.

and you had groups like ABBA going bonkers on the charts. so much for the hate of disco lol ;)