Scherrie and Susaye question

[marybrewster]

I've often wondered:

After the Supremes disbanded and Scherrie and Susaye went on to record "Partners", was there ever consideration of the duo coming up with a new group name [[a la "A Taste of Honey")? Or, because they'd just come off of the "Mary, Scherrie and Susaye" LP, was there a bigger chance of name recognition with simply "Scherrie and Susaye"?

[simplysupreme]

I recall Susaye stating that Suzanne DePasse had suggested the name The Twopremes.

[ralpht]

Brilliant......

[BayouMotownMan]

The original deal was that each lady, Mary, Scherrie and Susaye were given solo deals. Scherrie and Su were also given the green light to write their own material. Mary was assigned to Hal Davis. This is why there are so many solo numbers on the Partners lp, because Scherrie and Susaye were working on solo projects. Mr. Gordy came up with the idea to pair them together since they were really not as well known as Supremes as the prior women in the group. It was a marketing strategy.

[Ramone Verona]

Thanks for that info, BayouMM.
Always great to hear from you!
I did not know the pairing was Berry's idea.
I wonder what his thoughts were on recording Mary as a solo?
Just can't imagine he listened to Mary's tracks and gave "that" a green light to market; unless "that" was the plan all along.

[jobeterob]

I love a thread with wit and a touch of sarcasm.

I loved the "brilliant". Surely that was a joke about naming them the "Twopremes". Please please please........

And I equally love the "gave THAT a green light to market" ~ I take it that means it wasn't superlative material?

[theboyfromxtown]

Rob

Trust you to find a hint of wit and sarcasm! Nevertheless, even if it wasn't there, you can be relied upon to bring it to the table.

I cannot tell you how much I laughed at your post.......brought tears to my eyes!

[ralpht]

Rob, I was hoping that my amusement for such a dumb name was shining through. Leave it to Suzanne DePasse.

[theboyfromxtown]

Ralph

We must promise to not let out our real feelings!

I'm itching too, you know!!!!

[Ramone Verona]

Did she have something you both caught? ;)

[theboyfromxtown]

I wouldn't touch that with yours, let alone mine!

LOL

[ralpht]

I can see where this conversation is heading....

[luke]

And remember the Super S group which I think was Suzanne's idea as well--Syreeta, Scherrie and Susaye-but Syreeta got a hit and that was the end of that!

[BayouMotownMan]

Actually the idea of a Syreeta/Scherrie/Susaye grouping was shot down more than a year before Syreeta had a hit. Syreeta was not really interested in a group situation anyway, but what was taken seriously was having Joyce Vincent to replace Mary. She still had time on a contract with Tony Orlando and his label which would have meant yet more contractual dollars which an already pinched Motown was not interested in doing. Thus...the solo promises for all three was proposed.

[marv2]

And remember the Super S group which I think was Suzanne's idea as well--Syreeta, Scherrie and Susaye-but Syreeta got a hit and that was the end of that!


She came up with that? I am sorry, but that was not a good name for a group either.

[luke]

According to Scherrie in an interview in 2010, I was quoting "SYreeta got a hit and that was that."

[marv2]

According to Scherrie in an interview in 2010, I was quoting "SYreeta got a hit and that was that."

I remember Scherrie saying that. Is it just me or did anyone else find it "unique" that Syreeta was able to stay on the label's roster for something like 11 years before she scored a hit with Billy Preston?

[rod_rick]

I remember Scherrie saying that. Is it just me or did anyone else find it "unique" that Syreeta was able to stay on the label's roster for something like 11 years before she scored a hit with Billy Preston?

Can you say Stevie Wonder

[daddyacey]

"Leave it to Suzanne DePasse."
Wooo Haaa!!!! that's a whole nother subject!!! I've got a whole love /hate issue with Ms DePasse and Motown/Berry Gordys allowed control he gave her and SOME things she produced. But that's another, deep subject. That was a critical time period for the Motown legacy and its relation to music and the industry in particular. "Last Day's In Time" ,IMO.

[marybrewster]

Thanks all for the interesting conversation; I had no idea that Scherrie and Susaye's "deals" were solo. I was also surprised to hear about the Syreeta grouping. That is a new one on me.

You learn something new everyday.

[marv2]

"Leave it to Suzanne DePasse."
Wooo Haaa!!!! that's a whole nother subject!!! I've got a whole love /hate issue with Ms DePasse and Motown/Berry Gordys allowed control he gave her and SOME things she produced. But that's another, deep subject. That was a critical time period for the Motown legacy and its relation to music and the industry in particular. "Last Day's In Time" ,IMO.

Daddy, I don't have the dual issue with Suzanne DePasse. She was bad for the company and in the end help to destroy it in my opinion. I do not "love" her at all.

Marv

[luke]

I never knew Susaye had solo contract, though I knew it was possibility for Scherrie. Didnt Scherrie have a single release in UK on Motown? And perhaps Susaye can comment on all of this.

[captainjames]

That's interesting because I heard once that Syreeta's name was brought up when Diana left and now again at this point. It would have been good to see her as a Supreme.



Actually the idea of a Syreeta/Scherrie/Susaye grouping was shot down more than a year before Syreeta had a hit. Syreeta was not really interested in a group situation anyway, but what was taken seriously was having Joyce Vincent to replace Mary. She still had time on a contract with Tony Orlando and his label which would have meant yet more contractual dollars which an already pinched Motown was not interested in doing. Thus...the solo promises for all three was proposed.

[jobeterob]

I wish Syreeta had been a later day Supreme as well. And I believe it's been said several times that she didn't want to be.

Looking at it logically, after 1973, why would she want to be in the Supremes? They weren't doing very well or very much, nor were they getting along and they were changing members monthly; she might have just been asking for trouble. If it wasn't good enough in 1970, it was even less attractive in 1973 and 1975.

[marv2]

Can you say Stevie Wonder

Oh yeah, that definitely played a factor in her long tenure with the company.

[marv2]

I wish Syreeta had been a later day Supreme as well. And I believe it's been said several times that she didn't want to be.

Looking at it logically, after 1973, why would she want to be in the Supremes? They weren't doing very well or very much, nor were they getting along and they were changing members monthly; she might have just been asking for trouble. If it wasn't good enough in 1970, it was even less attractive in 1973 and 1975.

Syreeta was not "Supremes material" in my opinion. She did not have their ways and would have had difficulty projecting their image.

[marv2]

I never knew Susaye had solo contract, though I knew it was possibility for Scherrie. Didnt Scherrie have a single release in UK on Motown? And perhaps Susaye can comment on all of this.

That is news to me too!

[Glenpwood]

I remember reading in Mary's second book that every Supreme from Jean Terrell on was signed to Motown via a solo deal, not as a Supreme. So from that we can gather every girl besides Mary & Cindy was technically being subletted to the Supremes and made it easier from a contractual standpoint for Motown to end use of the Supremes name after Mary left without facing any major legal repercussions. Also the timeline in finding a replacement to carry on The Supremes post Wilson seemed a bit off. Mary announces she's leaving the band to Scherrie & Susaye I estimate the end of 1976 [[again this comes from Mary's version of events in her book although I know some people claim it was the Madison Square Garden fiasco of March 1977 that finally pushed her to leave). The Drury Lane farewell happens On June 12th. Tony Orlando breaks up Dawn and has his breakdown on stage July 22nd, technically meaning Joyce was not expecting to need to find a new job until that happened so I have to wonder who else was on the short list. I can't image Scherrie & Susaye decided to wait six months until Mary left to really start looking or was counting on serendipity to free up Joyce unless Suzanne or someone at Motown said they were gonna conduct a search for them as part of their new concept for continuing the band then realized there was ample talent in just the two of them going forward as "Partners"

[marv2]

I remember reading in Mary's second book that every Supreme from Jean Terrell on was signed to Motown via a solo deal, not as a Supreme. So from that we can gather every girl besides Mary & Cindy was technically being subletted to the Supremes and made it easier from a contractual standpoint for Motown to end use of the Supremes name after Mary left without facing any major legal repercussions. Also the timeline in finding a replacement to carry on The Supremes post Wilson seemed a bit off. Mary announces she's leaving the band to Scherrie & Susaye I estimate the end of 1976 [[again this comes from Mary's version of events in her book although I know some people claim it was the Madison Square Garden fiasco of March 1977 that finally pushed her to leave). The Drury Lane farewell happens On June 12th. Tony Orlando breaks up Dawn and has his breakdown on stage July 22nd, technically meaning Joyce was not expecting to need to find a new job until that happened so I have to wonder who else was on the short list. I can't image Scherrie & Susaye decided to wait six months until Mary left to really start looking or was counting on serendipity to free up Joyce unless Suzanne or someone at Motown said they were gonna conduct a search for them as part of their new concept for continuing the band then realized there was ample talent in just the two of them going forward as "Partners"

Glenpwood, I'm only going on an old man's memory now...hehehehehehe.....
But I recall mention was made of Mary leaving to go solo back around December 1976. They were doing or about to do a gig in Vegas. They made their last television appearance on the Mike Douglas Show in March of 1977 [[the same month they played MSG & Richard Nader's Rock N' Roll Oldies Show).

Also, there were several women mentioned as potential replacements for Mary long before we heard that the other ladies had settled on Joyce Vincent-Wilson, which was her name at that time. I saw one photo taken together of Scherrie, Susaye and Joyce casually dressed in the late Fall of 1977. It was my impression that Vivian Greene, [[Susaye's Mother), Ed Brown [[Susayes husband at time) and Susaye were going to be instrumental in revamping the act along with Scherrie Payne. To my knowledge, there was never a big formal announcement made that the Supremes would not continue on. Something was said a few years later with the release of the "Partners" album in 1979, but we were all left with the understanding that the group was going to continue.

[Jimi LaLumia]

actually, every Supreme after the original lineup was a solo deal,starting with Cindy Birdsong..
I remember Miss Ross on Barbra Walters during the reunion blowup stating that "Cindy was never really a Supreme" which i thought was kind of harsh, as Ross was the one who picked Cindy from the Patti La Belle tree...
this is why Ballard had to renounce any right to the Supremes name in her settlement,
and it's why Mary was able to fight for the use of the name;
Cindy had no such right, she was never really made part of the package;
as to Suzanne De Passe,her initial entry to Motown in the first place was via Cindy..
Motown's position was The Supremes were Ross/Wilson/Ballard;

everything thereafter was moving chess pieces around the board..
KISS was like that; after it was down to original members Gene Simmons and Paul Stanley,all those who followed were 'for hire' temps,basically;
of course, the fans don't feel that way, in regard to either KISS or The Supremes, but that's how the business end regards these matters

[Ramone Verona]

I agree with Marv that Syreeta was a poor choice.
Not Supremes material, for sure.
Berry could most likely control her.
Strange that a mention was made that the supremes would not have been good for Syreeta.
Not only is she gone too soon, a blip in Motown history, but here the "FINAL SESSIONS" are in demand by fans.
Me thinks Syreeta would have appreciated that kind of kinship and recognition.
"Changing members monthly"????
That's not only untrue and unfair, it's kind of a slight towards a group that has obviously caught on over time.......to say the least.
I'm happy Syreeta had the fun success that she had as well as her early Supremes and Vandellas work in vocals.

[johnjeb]

I can't recall when I first heard that Syreeta was considered to replace Diana Ross. I never could picture her as a Supreme either visually or musically.

HOWEVER, I saw her perform in a small club, Paul's Mall in Boston, just after her second album, "Stevie Wonder Presents Syreeta", was released. My memory of her opening songs leads me to believe that she could have fit the Supremes mold very nicely, if that was her career choice.

The club was very small, probably no more than 200-300 capacity, with the stage on the same level as the audience. There was a small raised audience level for those sitting closer to the walls of the club.

I saw Martha Reeves there when her Richard Perry album was just out. It was a weeknight and the crowd was small. The staging was non-existent, just room enough for her small combo of musicians and her mic. Performer and musicians all dressed-down in jeans. A good performance but no razzle-dazzle. In the late Seventies I saw The Dynamic Superiors several times. Again, good performances in an intimate and casual setting.

When I saw Syreeta I sensed a difference in the atmosphere as soon as I entered the club. Unlike the bare-bones look of the club with which I was familiar, the stage area was bathed in a soft light and the overall appearance was elegant. The instruments were arranged around the perimeter of the stage area, rather than pushed against the back of the stage or off to one side. I sensed something special. That was reinforced when the musicians came out in tuxedos. Unfortunately, my seat was along a side wall so my view of the stage area was partially blocked by the piano.

Syreeta came out singing "I'm Going Left" and "Spinnin' and Spinnin'", if I recall correctly. She was wearing a full-length gown which glimmered under the stage lights. It was magical. I thought I was watching Diana Ross. I don't recall much more of the show except this opening. I was so awe-struck at what I was witnessing. Having been so familiar with her first album I was expecting a more subdued performer and performance.

So my memory of this performance leads me to think that she would have fit The Supremes image without a problem.

[BayouMotownMan]

I think Syreeta had the voice to be a Supreme, but not the look so much. However, had she wanted to do it, she would have been accepted if only by her incredible voice.

There was some seriousness about replacing Jean with Syreeta despite Mary Wilson's objections. There is a version of Syreeta doing UP THE LADDER TO THE ROOF in the Motown vault

[dba]

JohnJeb brought back memories of one of my favorite clubs in Boston. I also saw the Syretta show there and she was amazing. Her show was very professional in the same way that made so many Motown performers great to see live.

I love Jean but also think Syretta would have made a great Supreme.

Saw Martha and the V's, Esther Phillips and Lily Tomlin at the same club. it's been gone for years now but whenever I am on Boylston Street in the Copley/Prudential area I fondly remember the "Mall" and the Jazz Workshop.

[theboyfromxtown]

dba and Johnjeb

I find it very pleasing that as individuals we continue through our different journey in life, yet we always meet up later. Wherever we are, whatever has happened.

dba-I've known John for a good 30 years and we are still in touch even though he and I live in different countries! And I know all about Boyleston Street,Tower, Strawberry's..... *smile*

[marv2]

I can't recall when I first heard that Syreeta was considered to replace Diana Ross. I never could picture her as a Supreme either visually or musically.

HOWEVER, I saw her perform in a small club, Paul's Mall in Boston, just after her second album, "Stevie Wonder Presents Syreeta", was released. My memory of her opening songs leads me to believe that she could have fit the Supremes mold very nicely, if that was her career choice.

The club was very small, probably no more than 200-300 capacity, with the stage on the same level as the audience. There was a small raised audience level for those sitting closer to the walls of the club.

I saw Martha Reeves there when her Richard Perry album was just out. It was a weeknight and the crowd was small. The staging was non-existent, just room enough for her small combo of musicians and her mic. Performer and musicians all dressed-down in jeans. A good performance but no razzle-dazzle. In the late Seventies I saw The Dynamic Superiors several times. Again, good performances in an intimate and casual setting.

When I saw Syreeta I sensed a difference in the atmosphere as soon as I entered the club. Unlike the bare-bones look of the club with which I was familiar, the stage area was bathed in a soft light and the overall appearance was elegant. The instruments were arranged around the perimeter of the stage area, rather than pushed against the back of the stage or off to one side. I sensed something special. That was reinforced when the musicians came out in tuxedos. Unfortunately, my seat was along a side wall so my view of the stage area was partially blocked by the piano.

Syreeta came out singing "I'm Going Left" and "Spinnin' and Spinnin'", if I recall correctly. She was wearing a full-length gown which glimmered under the stage lights. It was magical. I thought I was watching Diana Ross. I don't recall much more of the show except this opening. I was so awe-struck at what I was witnessing. Having been so familiar with her first album I was expecting a more subdued performer and performance.

So my memory of this performance leads me to think that she would have fit The Supremes image without a problem.

Great story johnjeb! Do you remember if Paul's Mall was downtown? Thanks.

[1382hitsville]

Syreeta also did a demo of "Love Child"

[marv2]

JohnJeb brought back memories of one of my favorite clubs in Boston. I also saw the Syretta show there and she was amazing. Her show was very professional in the same way that made so many Motown performers great to see live.

I love Jean but also think Syretta would have made a great Supreme.

Saw Martha and the V's, Esther Phillips and Lily Tomlin at the same club. it's been gone for years now but whenever I am on Boylston Street in the Copley/Prudential area I fondly remember the "Mall" and the Jazz Workshop.


Ahh, now I know or have an ideal of where the club was! I lived not far from there. Close enough to the Prudential and Copley Sq. from my window. Thanks Dba

[Ramone Verona]

Syreeta's version of "Up The Ladder To The Roof" is a bit different as once she gets up there she goes left.
JMC got it "right".
Wonder if Andy or George has seen this title by Syreeta in the vaults.
They have been very quiet lately.
Probably exhausted from editing down "Mother Dear" from 17 minutes.

[theboyfromxtown]

Ramone

Where are you hearing Syreeta's "Up The Ladder To The Roof". Have I missed something here?

I know Mary tells us to hold on to your dreams but 17 minutes of "Mother Dear" can't be a dream. Thats' a miracle!

[theboyfromxtown]

I think Syreeta had the voice to be a Supreme, but not the look so much. However, had she wanted to do it, she would have been accepted if only by her incredible voice.

There was some seriousness about replacing Jean with Syreeta despite Mary Wilson's objections. There is a version of Syreeta doing UP THE LADDER TO THE ROOF in the Motown vault

Rick....is it a finished recording or a demo?

[luke]

Never heard or read that Cindy was not signed to Motown as a Supreme. From Jean on my understanding is that they were salaried and that Scherrie and Susaye and maybe Cindy the second time were signed to Marys corp. [[In fact Scherrie sued Marys corp for 1.25 million after the Supremes split).

[captainjames]

Perhaps it is just a matter of opinion but, I am in lined with Berry in his desire to add Syreeta to the line-up. Not to take anything away from Jean because I slowly fell in love with her but, Syreeta was pure elegant to me. Perhaps Mr. Gordy would have supported them a little more if they had of went with his decision. I thought Syreeta had the voice of an angel and would have made a great blend between Cindy and Mary.

Now the second time around with Scherrie and Susaye would have put them in the same vein as maybe the Emotions. A lot of high notes would have been swinging there.

[marv2]

Jean Terrell was the perfect replacement. Syreeta Wright would not have even made my 10 ten for a potential replacement of any of the Supremes. Berry and Mary made the right choice in Jean Terrell. "Whatever" caused Berry to want to replace Jean with Syreeta had nothing to do with Jeans talent and overall ability. The public loved the Supremes with Jean Terrell.

Scherrie Payne and Susaye Greene made the right choice with Joyce Vincent. She had "Supreme Qualities" about her. Also a very good looking woman.

[Glenpwood]

The Supremes, as told in Taraborelli's last Ross tome, actually were given an allowance [[anywhere from 300-1000 bucks weekly depending on the era) by Motown rather than a salary. The crucial difference being an allowance would be untaxed and therefore had no withholdings taken for the IRS or for where it would hurt the most now, Social Security benefits, robbing them of the extra income from their peak earning years being applied to the monthly Check each girl would receive whenever they decide to take the benefit upon retirement. I find that upsetting to say the least and makes me very willing to support the ladies various ways of earning income today, whether it's via concerts or buying another Greatest Hits album or an extra copy of the box set. But enough of surmising about other people's money since it isn't polite conversation to go any deeper than this......

[johnjeb]

marv2, "Paul's Mall" and the "Jazz Workshop" [[I think that's what it was called, or do I have Motown on the brain?!) were two basement clubs side-by-side on Boylston St, Boston. It was near Copley Square and halfway between the Prudential Center and the Boston Public Library but on the opposite side of the street. I think it was directly opposite Lord & Taylor.

About 1979/1980 it became a popular gay club called "Buddies". The disco was the former "Paul's Mall" and the bar/lounge was the former "Jazz Workshop". On the street level was, and maybe still is, Pizzeria Uno

I have no idea what business now occupies the basement space of the former clubs, if anything at all.

It is a shame that we lost those clubs. Many great performers appeared there in their early careers. A friend saw Bette Midler there when Barry Manilow was her piano player.

[marv2]

marv2, "Paul's Mall" and the "Jazz Workshop" [[I think that's what it was called, or do I have Motown on the brain?!) were two basement clubs side-by-side on Boylston St, Boston. It was near Copley Square and halfway between the Prudential Center and the Boston Public Library but on the opposite side of the street. I think it was directly opposite Lord & Taylor.

About 1979/1980 it became a popular gay club called "Buddies". The disco was the former "Paul's Mall" and the bar/lounge was the former "Jazz Workshop". On the street level was, and maybe still is, Pizzeria Uno

I have no idea what business now occupies the basement space of the former clubs, if anything at all.

It is a shame that we lost those clubs. Many great performers appeared there in their early careers. A friend saw Bette Midler there when Barry Manilow was her piano player.

Thanks Johnjeb. I lived on St. Botolph. Right near the Christian Science Monitor building and I could see the Prudential Blding/Copley Square from my bedroom windows. So many entertainments spots have disappeared over the last 20-25 years not only in Boston, but in Detroit, New York, Chicago, Philly and even Toronto. Progress I guess? NOT! LOL!

[captainjames]

Anyway, I wish Scherrie and Susaye could have been given another shot at it because it seemed like they respected each other's talents and both were songwriters too. Motown had happened upon a good combination here and let it slipped through the cracks. Syreeta was an acomplished songwriter too.

[marv2]

Anyway, I wish Scherrie and Susaye could have been given another shot at it because it seemed like they respected each other's talents and both were songwriters too. Motown had happened upon a good combination here and let it slipped through the cracks. Syreeta was an acomplished songwriter too.


I have ask. What magic did you think was going to occurr for Scherrie and Susaye with Motown? I mean after all, they both had been at Motown for a decent amount of time when the album "Partners" was released [[Scherrie Payne had been with the company approx 6 years, Susaye Greene 3 years or even longer if you count her association with Stevie Wonder).

Had Motown done that much for them in all that time? I mean they still were the same individuals and Motown was still the same company by 1979. Just asking?

Syreeta Wright was talented ,but was not so much a performer.

[captainjames]

Maybe something or someone was in their way~~~ I mean I am just saying.


I have ask. What magic did you think was going to occurr for Scherrie and Susaye with Motown? I mean after all, they both had been at Motown for a decent amount of time when the album "Partners" was released [[Scherrie Payne had been with the company approx 6 years, Susaye Greene 3 years or even longer if you count her association with Stevie Wonder).

Had Motown done that much for them in all that time? I mean they still were the same individuals and Motown was still the same company by 1979. Just asking?

Syreeta Wright was talented ,but was not so much a performer.

[marv2]

Maybe something or someone was in their way~~~ I mean I am just saying.


Nah, Mary wasn't in their way. They were a group! They probably would have never been signed to Motown had it not been for Mary Wilson. Why didn't Motown promote them after Mary was gone?

[marv2]

They [[Motown) were capable of promoting the group High Inergy. They even got a hit on them with their first release "You Can't Turn Me Off..." the same year Mary left the Supremes, 1977. Why didn't they do the same or something similar for Scherrie and Susaye?

[captainjames]

Perhaps Susaye will answer that since she was there !!~~

[marv2]

Perhaps Susaye will answer that since she was there !!~~

Susayeeeee! Anytime! LOL!!!