James Jamerson or Carol Kaye

[stingbeelee]

This article was referred by Graham Jarvis in another post, but it is VERY INTERESTING reading:
https://www.cambridge.org/core/journals/journal-of-the-society-for-american-music/article/reconstructing-the-history-of-motown-session-musicians-the-carol-kayejames-jamerson-controversy/57ACC9F2F2411AF36EB905769E1E53C3

[bradburger]

Yes, it's a very interesting read, but it really confirms what we knew already.

That is, she played bass on a lot of the Motown tunes cut in L.A. [many ended up as L.P cuts or were not released at the time] during the 60s but did not play on the songs/versions she claimed to have played during her lawsuit with Allen Slutsky and in the subsequent years i.e., those that were cut at Hitsville on which Jamerson played on!

Whilst she was an accomplished session musician and contributed to a lot of classic 60s songs, in my opinion she ruined any reputation and credibility she had with that lawsuit and the continued claims after, for work that belonged to someone else.

Cheers

Paul

[Roger Polhill]

I`ve just listened to the Beach Boy`s "I Was Made To Love Her" for the first time and while I can`t hear Carole`s lines very well I would suggest that she plays the same on every verse. Whereas James Jamerson plays a variation on each one. She is a very skilled musician but wooden compared to James.

[Roger Polhill]

If as Carole claims she played on the Supreme`s "Love Is And Now You`re Gone" then her track was replaced with Jamerson`s upright bass.

[snakepit]

Surely this has been put to bed.
She played on LA sessions....unissued stuff, LP tracks, cover versions...probably TV work.
But she's not on the Detroit records she claims to be ..she's confused,mistaken..at best.

[ralpht]

Snake, I sure would like to put that fallacy to bed once and for all. FACT: I was present at most of the sessions Kay claims to have played bass on. Funk Brothers all the way, including Jamerson.

[paul_nixon]

Snake, I sure would like to put that fallacy to bed once and for all. FACT: I was present at most of the sessions Kay claims to have played bass on. Funk Brothers all the way, including Jamerson.

The bed is made

[ralpht]

Amen and amen.......

[bob_olhsson]

Music publishing was Motown's biggest source of income. We had publishing offices in New York and LA from almost the very beginning.

Their job was to sell non-Motown artists on recording our songwriters' songs. They recorded demos of almost everything to pitch with and Kaye was on virtually all of the Los Angeles demo sessions. They had learned early-on that a demo by the Funk Brothers didn't sell because it was so distinctive.

She kept a diary of song titles. I have no doubt that she believes some of the demos got turned into backing tracks for the hits but there is plenty of evidence otherwise. I'm sure a lot of this has mostly to do with her book of Motown bass tracks.

[ralpht]

She should be satisfied with her contribution to Motown and just leave it at that.

[bob_olhsson]

I think she's mostly afraid of a copyright lawsuit over her book. Her credit list is staggering without any Motown. Recording 18 demos a day was common, so I suspect she has no idea what she actually played other than comparing the list of songs in her diary to the pop charts.

[ralpht]

Good to hear your contributions, Bob.

[BritishTony]

Thank you so much Ralph for putting the record straight.
Carol keeps making claims in documentaries and books and to us observant fans it just doesn’t add up. She is without doubt a gifted player and made significant contributions to legendary West Coast sessions by major artists. But anyone can hear it was James on those Snakepit tracks. The kindest interpretation is that Motown’s vast recording programme of album tracks and West Coast covers has left her confused. So thanks again Ralph as one who was there.

[ralpht]

Glad to keep the record accurate,Tony. And you are correct. She is a gifted player that should be able to stand on her own accomplishments.

[garyr]

"Their job was to sell non-Motown artists on recording our songwriters' songs. ... They had learned early-on that a demo by the Funk Brothers didn't sell because it was so distinctive.

She kept a diary of song titles. I have no doubt that she believes some of the demos got turned into backing tracks for the hits but there is plenty of evidence otherwise. I'm sure a lot of this has mostly to do with her book of Motown bass tracks."

That is fascinating, Bob. I have been tracking this controversy in some form since I began playing bass over fifty years ago. One of my self-teaching tools then was Kaye's books - and even then I noticed discrepancies in her Motown information. It was confusing to me at first but I believe Slutsky, though disliked by some Motown people, did an admirable job of defending Jamerson's legacy that should have needed no defense [[thank you Ralph!). I came to the conclusion that Kaye amped up her Motown claims after Jamerson had died and could no longer defend himself so my opinion of her is quite low.

[mysterysinger]

I know that this issue keeps raising it's head and I have to say I'm absolutely with the majority view on this, but I find Appendix A [[the Musicians Union contract info) very interesting. There are a couple of queries too [[e.g. "I'm Ready For Love" MR&TV) but for the most part it confirms what most people say. What's more it gives recording dates for many of these tracks and, perhaps, points to some still being in the can? Seems like a decent piece of work to me.