Blue-eyed soul on Motown and it's subsidiary labels.

[ivyfield]

Last week here in the UK I heard 'Gotta See Jane' on the radio and the DJ said "That's R Dean Taylor - one of only two white artists ever signed to Motown, the other being Chris Clark". When I'd calmed down, it got me thinking. Can you add to this list for me? Again, apologies if this subject has been covered before. The obvious additions I know of are: The Four Seasons, Debbie Dean, Charlene, Lynda Carter, Bobby Darin, The Lewis Sisters, Kiki Dee and Rare Earth. I know you're going to add more to those listed above, so thanks in advance.

[sansradio]

Ahem...Teena Marie, anyone? Also, Paul Petersen, Carrie McDowell, Sam Harris and probably several others I'm forgetting. :D

[jobucats]

Irene Ryan, aka Granny on the Beverly Hillbillies, recorded "No Time at All" from the musical 'Pippen' in 1973? Question is...was she actually a 'signed' Motown artist?

[paul_nixon]

Ahem...Teena Marie, anyone? Also, Paul Petersen, Carrie McDowell, Sam Harris and probably several others I'm forgetting. :D

Tommy Good, Lewis Sisters, Connie Haines, Dalton Boys, Granny 'Irene' Ryan, Hornets, Rick Robin, Johnny Powers, Little Lisa, Reuben Howell, Ron Miller, Stoney and Meatloaf, Tony Martin, Martin and Finlay, Underdogs, and loads more - the DJ wants shooting or re educating

[paul_nixon]

Well she had a single relase and was on the soundtrack so there must have been a contract

[Motown Eddie]

Rustix, Messengers, Power Of Zeus, Sunday Funnies, Road, Heart, Two Friends.

[Motown Eddie]

Also-Matrix, Severin Browne & Michael Quatro.

[mysterysinger]

Severin Brown,
Phil Cordell,
The Boones,
Michael McDonald,
Bruce Willis,
Andrew Logan,
Love Sculpture,
The Pretty Things,
Dorsey Burnette,
Mike Valvano,
Lesley Gore,
Jose Feliciano,
The Impact of Brass,
plus

[sansradio]

Jose Feliciano

He's Puerto Rican.

[Sotosound]

He's Puerto Rican.
What colour are his eyes?

[sansradio]

What colour are his eyes?

I'm sure you're funning, but when we talk about blue-eyed soul, we're not talking about the music of Latinx folks--or Smokey Robinson or Vanessa Williams, for that matter.

[Boogiedown]

And they went “We” “we” “we” all the way home

[sansradio]

Oh, and Michelle Aller as well. How could I forget her?

[woodward]

Soupy Sales.

[sansradio]

Soupy Sales.

Yes! Absolutely. And T.G. Sheppard [though I wouldn’t necessarily cast his work as “soul”] had a brief stint as well.

[gordy_hunk]

Tommy Good, Lewis Sisters, Connie Haines, Dalton Boys, Granny 'Irene' Ryan, Hornets, Rick Robin, Johnny Powers, Little Lisa, Reuben Howell, Ron Miller, Stoney and Meatloaf, Tony Martin, Martin and Finlay, Underdogs, and loads more - the DJ wants shooting or re educating

Last week, celebrating Valerie Simpson's birthday, a very well known veteran DJ [[not Tony Blackburn nor Paul Brown) said that she had written "Reachout I'll be there" for the 4 Tops....

I often wonder how people become a DJ when the knowledge is sometimes ... lacking ... or they just pour out something which they've not bothered to check.

[Sotosound]

I'm sure you're funning, but when we talk about blue-eyed soul, we're not talking about the music of Latinx folks--or Smokey Robinson or Vanessa Williams, for that matter.
Sorry, but I couldn't resist it.

The term "Blue-eyed Soul" really meant something back in the 1960s and 1970s, but perhaps it referred to a distinction and over-simplification that didn't fully exist even back then and that certainly doesn't exist in 2022.

If I were to have described a track such as "Gotta See Jane" by R. Dean Taylor back in 1968, I might have described it as "Blue-eyed Soul", but when I listen to it again in 2022 it's actually something of its own. There are elements of pop and rock and psychedelia and soul, and there are certainly Funk Brothers laying down an immense groove, but it certainly isn't just a white man singing black music. Instead, it's just R. Dean Taylor doing what he did and it's actually original and new and going places that many more consciously or unconsciously started to go in the years immediately following.

[Sotosound]

Last week, celebrating Valerie Simpson's birthday, a very well known veteran DJ [[not Tony Blackburn nor Paul Brown) said that she had written "Reachout I'll be there" for the 4 Tops....

I often wonder how people become a DJ when the knowledge is sometimes ... lacking ... or they just pour out something which they've not bothered to check.
He probably had no idea and was relying on a script.

Not all DJs are as deeply into their music as Tony Blackburn or Simon Mayo. Many are more interested in promoting their own brand and are better described as radio presenters.

[sansradio]

Sorry, but I couldn't resist it.

The term "Blue-eyed Soul" really meant something back in the 1960s and 1970s, but perhaps it referred to a distinction and over-simplification that didn't fully exist even back then and that certainly doesn't exist in 2022.

If I were to have described a track such as "Gotta See Jane" by R. Dean Taylor back in 1968, I might have described it as "Blue-eyed Soul", but when I listen to it again in 2022 it's actually something of its own. There are elements of pop and rock and psychedelia and soul, and there are certainly Funk Brothers laying down an immense groove, but it certainly isn't just a white man singing black music. Instead, it's just R. Dean Taylor doing what he did and it's actually original and new and going places that many more consciously or unconsciously started to go in the years immediately following.

I’ve long felt the same. The term kind of became a lazy marketing device, lumping disparate kinds of music together to suit the vagaries of commerce and sociology. It’s kind of akin to the lumping of everything Black into an “urban” box.
You’ve nailed it.

[mysterysinger]

He's Puerto Rican.

Not sure why you would want to exclude Jose Feliciano - I believe he's white - and he's good enough for Spotify's Blue Eyed Soul compilation https://open.spotify.com/album/1Gv8ERW0xvbZqG0Sep8LWx

[Sotosound]

Many thanks.

Better to nail it than to screw it up. :)

[sansradio]

Not sure why you would want to exclude Jose Feliciano - I believe he's white - and he's good enough for Spotify's Blue Eyed Soul compilation https://open.spotify.com/album/1Gv8ERW0xvbZqG0Sep8LWx

That’s interesting. I wonder how he’d feel about that classification. He’s an admixture of West African, Spanish and Taíno, to the best of my knowledge, and has always identified as a man of color.

[mysterysinger]

It's an interesting discussion.

If he identifies himself as a man of colour I'd certainly be interested to see that. If that's what he says then that's what he is.

This article describes him as of white ethnicity https://gossipgist.com/jose-feliciano

[soulwally]

He probably had no idea and was relying on a script.

Not all DJs are as deeply into their music as Tony Blackburn or Simon Mayo. Many are more interested in promoting their own brand and are better described as radio presenters.
Even esteemed Northern Soul/Modern Soul/ Whatever Soul DJ Richard Searling gets things wrong. The other week he had Paul Williams as lead singer on My Baby and Ashford and Simpson writing something they didn’t [[can’t recall what!!)

[Boogiedown]

That’s interesting. I wonder how he’d feel about that classification. He’s an admixture of West African, Spanish and Taíno, to the best of my knowledge, and has always identified as a man of color.
Shouldnt That nowadays be a “person” of color ?? WE’re just saying’….:rolleyes:

[Sotosound]

It's an interesting discussion.

If he identifies himself as a man of colour I'd certainly be interested to see that. If that's what he says then that's what he is.

This article describes him as of white ethnicity https://gossipgist.com/jose-feliciano
Unless we use bleach on our skin, we are all people of colour.

In fact, white is a colour, well, certainly when bought as a paint or viewed through a prism.

So, where does that leave us?

The term 'color' or 'colour' actually perpetuates an outmoded perception from centuries ago, when dark-skinned people were rarely seen by people from much of Europe. And dark-skinned people were actually no more coloured than Europeans - they were just differently coloured.

In fact, our skin colour and eye colour are simply evolutionary responses to the climate where our ancestors grew and evolved. They say nothing else about us at all, and they certainly have no cultural content. That comes from where we live and who we grow up with.

What we're really left with is good old tribalism, which I regard as a blight upon humanity, as the root of so many of our problems, and as the cause of so many of our conflicts.

[jobucats]

Well she had a single relase and was on the soundtrack so there must have been a contract
Thank you, paul nixon. So with that, we'll need to add Jill Clayburgh to the list because she also was on the Pippen soundtrack album.

[sansradio]

Unless we use bleach on our skin, we are all people of colour.

In fact, white is a colour, well, certainly when bought as a paint or viewed through a prism.

So, where does that leave us?

The term 'color' or 'colour' actually perpetuates an outmoded perception from centuries ago, when dark-skinned people were rarely seen by people from much of Europe. And dark-skinned people were actually no more coloured than Europeans - they were just differently coloured.

In fact, our skin colour and eye colour are simply evolutionary responses to the climate where our ancestors grew and evolved. They say nothing else about us at all, and they certainly have no cultural content. That comes from where we live and who we grow up with.

What we're really left with is good old tribalism, which I regard as a blight upon humanity, as the root of so many of our problems, and as the cause of so many of our conflicts.

I couldn’t have said it better myself. The myth of “race” vs. the reality of racism is the crux of the matter.

[mysterysinger]

Football commentator - "For those of you watching in black and white, Spurs are in the all-yellow strip"

[mysterysinger]

Did anyone mention Tom Clay?
or The Valadiers
Nick and The Jaguars
The Abbey Tavern Singers
David Alexander
The Honest Men

[jack020]

Dutch group The Cats and dutch singer Waylon.

[mysterysinger]

Who can forget Christine Schumacher?

[Guy]

Ahem...Teena Marie, anyone? Also, Paul Petersen, Carrie McDowell, Sam Harris and probably several others I'm forgetting. :D

Teena Marie is NOT "blue-eyed soul." Unless Lorraine Ellison, Linda Jones and Yvonne Fair are also blue-eyed soul. That title diminishes Teena's artistry and musicianship, and her commitment to enriching Black music over 3 decades.

SIDEBAR: a friend who worked at Motown in the 80s said that Prince admired her and wanted to work with her after she left Motown but ultimately felt her creative expression was "too Black" for them to collaborate. lol.

[sansradio]

Teena Marie is NOT "blue-eyed soul." Unless Lorraine Ellison, Linda Jones and Yvonne Fair are also blue-eyed soul. That title diminishes Teena's artistry and musicianship, and her commitment to enriching Black music over 3 decades. Soupy Sales isn’t “blue-eyed soul,” either. If you’ll carefully reread the initial post, the point is that a radio announcer stated that Motown only signed two white artists—-R. Dean Taylor and Chris Clark. That’s categorically wrong, no matter how you label the music, and that’s what this thread is trying to remedy.

[MIKEW-UK]

Michael Edward Campbell. Tracks produced by Bob Babbit, Tom Baird, Russ Terrana and Michael Edward Campbell

[MIKEW-UK]

T.G.Sheppard on Melodyland, subsequently Hitsville, owned by Motown

[Guy]

Soupy Sales isn’t “blue-eyed soul,” either. If you’ll carefully reread the initial post, the point is that a radio announcer stated that Motown only signed two white artists—-R. Dean Taylor and Chris Clark. That’s categorically wrong, no matter how you label the music, and that’s what this thread is trying to remedy.

That is not at all clear. It appears that you were labelling Teena as blue-eyed soul. Maybe it's your accent...https://soulfuldetroit.com/image/png;base64,iVBORw0KGgoAAAANSUhEUgAAABAAAAAQCAYAAAA f8/9hAAAAGXRFWHRTb2Z0d2FyZQBBZG9iZSBJbWFnZVJlYWR5ccll PAAAAtVJREFUeNqkUk1IFVEU/u6M4/O9pp4 0p6WpWIbpdJNixDUUCvcZJItyoXtWySujBa26hG0qFWoCBZEEB mEZFRgQor2Q2olhmVKWD3T/Bnnzd d27kvMallA5fz3cv5vvOdM4cJIfA/X8rfD24X030fzYLjKOc4SBiERwj3UbwaaRHG5ny22QGRy32OLm V/RT6LVkAEdwG B391Bt7cEMyh/mkSaoq2imf/CLidrM7Pjt5TC49DhDPhLr8GN39CODZlBaDqhWC2AnOsD bUtxO7L4meDQG7k0UozKRUtepcXYBnTAG2Ae448F2HRByAC7At UWihUsTvXDfIyZ7CmFhUpAr11qweqNFFkPJMIjsmOq4s0cUjax 662wlaFtz4NFxzEuHyGp27aJbcpACp1bKcanBjgqpZ8InYdC6Q jMLz0HjGoiI0C8uG 3UCWrRYatduFihCKIssLxHJJZL7m2wTJgc JfgOp3cOvrZGjIQ0lr8hQJNPCGcVoGo3Yh/w5vmPJFESfHqTeHQkgfZuIykGGhj3of4RcDENe4VQKhpO78DQ4 DLevSA3LjkgwtirBIbHHdRXa1BUDdzVYCcwlVwkxhjil9FrzQ6 UqNE8bMuIo6EhgscPFtE/QK6oVEYIqK/SkJ6uIDUrH6uzU6Bx9EouS0tLw/QFK5MKfco42aJzaxze4kfwhEkD9cBtmgFFkHMtYztY1mGMXusw HBcFdQ8D84plWSz7IhYsB2dXhm9Tf7lIySyFkqJT/yL5/9VgCGl5CHy/DlySPYNpqO9Yh5uUNMtqFp2laKkfNlXuWpItG280hFTjC3BGqA 5sQdWgsPS5MTGLvbP3f/M2u79V59SvYX6CzRYUES2EtqmlQMB/1QrNJvLEjHIT0VxXKTv6/i3eQCBmMv2U3DUcxk74xxOm lA52AqiiKTph2EQESkiseSG6ptMlkGux1khRYW6/u/RJgAJZdlsYzbjOrAAAAAElFTkSuQmCC

[TomatoTom123]

I guess we could make the distinction between “white artists at Motown” and “blue-eyed soul artists at Motown” [as in white artists who recorded R&B/soul music at the label]. Although sometimes that line itself is blurry… :)

[robb_k]

Did anyone mention Tom Clay?
or The Valadiers
Nick and The Jaguars
The Abbey Tavern Singers
David Alexander
The Honest Men
19892
I think these Irish Canadian people would have been shocked to find out they were "Soul Singers" of any sort!

I wouldn't call The Honest Men's music genre as "Soul Music". Neither would I call Nick andThe Jaguars Garage guitar instrumentals, "Soul Music".

[robb_k]

Severin Brown,
Phil Cordell,
The Boones,
Michael McDonald,
Bruce Willis,
Andrew Logan,
Love Sculpture,
The Pretty Things,
Dorsey Burnette,
Mike Valvano,
Lesley Gore,
Jose Feliciano,
The Impact of Brass,
plus
19893
Did those singers really sing "Soul Music"?

[robb_k]

Rustix, Messengers, Power Of Zeus, Sunday Funnies, Road, Heart, Two Friends.
19894
Do you REALLY consider the music these groups sang, as "Soul Music"???

The Two Friends were Clyde Wilson [[AKA "Steve Mancha"), and Wilbur Jackson, who were both African-Americans. Did they actually try to sing like "Caucasians" trying to sing like African Americans? Or did they BOTH have blue eyes? I say no! Otherwise, I probably wouldn't have bought their record.

[robb_k]

Tommy Good, Lewis Sisters, Connie Haines, Dalton Boys, Granny 'Irene' Ryan, Hornets, Rick Robin, Johnny Powers, Little Lisa, Reuben Howell, Ron Miller, Stoney and Meatloaf, Tony Martin, Martin and Finlay, Underdogs, and loads more - the DJ wants shooting or re educating
19895
I know that Motown signed Ron Miller to a songwriter contract, and he recorded demo records for songs he wrote. But, did Motown also sign him to an artist [[singer's) contract, and really release a commercial record on he that they actually marketed? Or did they just release a record of his to go through the motions, which had no marketing push from the company, as they did with the Lewis Sisters?

[mysterysinger]

19893
Did those singers really sing "Soul Music"?

The original question Robb is about white artists signed to Motown - it's irrelevant what, or if, they sang.

[robb_k]

The original question Robb is about white artists signed to Motown - it's irrelevant what, or if, they sang.
19898
Huh???? Am I in The Twilight Zone [[as The Astors once sang)????

The way I read it, the title of this thread is: Blue-Eyed Soul On Motown And It's Subsidiary Labels. [[https://soulfuldetroit.com/showthread.php?29813-Blue-eyed-soul-on-Motown-and-it-s-subsidiary-labels)

It seems that several others on this thread were confused about what this thread was about. The first post didn't make it clear that he or she was changing what he or she wanted us to post about in the post from what he or she asked us to post about in the thread title. In the post, he or she just asked for help with his or her list". If he or she decided to change the point of the thread, he or she should have changed the thread title to match what the post requested, and also should have been more specific about whether or not the list we were to add to was "Caucasian" or "White" artists or "Blue Eyed Soul Singers". My point here was already brought up earlier in this thread, but, I was so busy looking for listed artists whose recordings couldn't be even remotely considered "Soul Music", that I didn't notice them. :p [[just to avoid any Internet strife or irritation, this is the nearest emoji I could find for flakiness on my part, as opposed to sticking my tongue out at anyone). "Peace, Brother."

[Ed H]

Motown successfully blurred the line between soul and pop anyway.

[mysterysinger]

Robb - we love you.

Ed - great point.

[WaitingWatchingLookingForAChance]

I think I get it now. Can someone from the UK tell me what the term "Blue-Eyed Soul" means there? In the US, it's the general term for White singers [[because Whites, in general, in general, in general, in general are the race with blue eyes) who sing with a "Black" sound. And please don't start a pointless rage about what exactly a "Black sound" is. So the thread's title asks about something that we in the US would understand to be about White Motown artists who sound Black. However, if I'm understanding it correctly, in actuality, actuality, ACTUALITY, this is about any and all Motown [[and subsidiary labels) artists who were White, regardless if they sang soul, rock, country, polkas or bluegrass calypso laments.

[Sotosound]

I think I get it now. Can someone from the UK tell me what the term "Blue-Eyed Soul" means there? In the US, it's the general term for White singers [[because Whites, in general, in general, in general, in general are the race with blue eyes) who sing with a "Black" sound. And please don't start a pointless rage about what exactly a "Black sound" is. So the thread's title asks about something that we in the US would understand to be about White Motown artists who sound Black. However, if I'm understanding it correctly, in actuality, actuality, ACTUALITY, this is about any and all Motown [[and subsidiary labels) artists who were White, regardless if they sang soul, rock, country, polkas or bluegrass calypso laments.
A point well made.

The OP's thread title and initial post don't actually belong together.

Perhaps @ivyfield will join us and clarify exactly what was intended. This will prevent any further confusion.

[144man]

19894
Do you REALLY consider the music these groups sang, as "Soul Music"???

The Two Friends were Clyde Wilson [[AKA "Steve Mancha"), and Wilbur Jackson, who were both African-Americans. Did they actually try to sing like "Caucasians" trying to sing like African Americans? Or did they BOTH have blue eyes? I say no! Otherwise, I probably wouldn't have bought their record.

Some but not all of the tracks The Rustix recorded were definitely Soul Music.

[144man]

Don't forget Connie Van Dyke's Oh Freddie / It Hurt Me Too.

[Motown Eddie]

19894
Do you REALLY consider the music these groups sang, as "Soul Music"???

The Two Friends were Clyde Wilson [[AKA "Steve Mancha"), and Wilbur Jackson, who were both African-Americans. Did they actually try to sing like "Caucasians" trying to sing like African Americans? Or did they BOTH have blue eyes? I say no! Otherwise, I probably wouldn't have bought their record.

Excuse me but the Two Friends that I'm referring to in my post were [according to Discogs] were a folk-rock duo, Bucky Wiener & Chip Carpenter, that released an album on Motown's Natural Resources label in 1972. Like others on this thread, I listed White performers that recorded for Motown and didn't take into consideration whether or not they sang Soul Music and that was a mistake.

https://i.discogs.com/Ej7P3NOI9sPcR5mDwIId_QH_w3YB7iZK1dWAKhUmOFI/rs:fit/g:sm/q:40/h:300/w:300/czM6Ly9kaXNjb2dz/LWRhdGFiYXNlLWlt/YWdlcy9BLTIzNjEy/MjMtMTU2MjU2MDgy/OC02NzM5LnBuZw.jpeg

And their single released overseas.

https://i.discogs.com/vnOpQGG-9_2Ipgdhb9fOYjY4rGH94HcXrWCp3FdzsZI/rs:fit/g:sm/q:90/h:596/w:600/czM6Ly9kaXNjb2dz/LWRhdGFiYXNlLWlt/YWdlcy9SLTEyNzgz/NjE2LTE2MjI3MTUw/NzItMzI3Ni5qcGVn.jpeg

[Sotosound]

Excuse me but the Two Friends that I'm referring to in my post were [according to Discogs] were a folk-rock duo, Bucky Wiener & Chip Carpenter, that released an album on Motown's Natural Resources label in 1972. Like others on this thread, I listed White performers that recorded for Motown and didn't take into consideration whether or not they sang Soul Music and that was a mistake.



@ivyfield listed Lynda Carter, Rare Earth, Charlene, and others at the start of this thread, none of whom could ever have been referred to as doing Blue-eyed Soul.

Hence my request that they clarify exactly what they intended.

At present they appear to have launched the thread and then gone AWOL while posters get tangled up trying to resolve the contradictory contents of the initial post.

Was this thread intended as a wind-up?

[Motown Eddie]

19894
Do you REALLY consider the music these groups sang, as "Soul Music"???

The Two Friends were Clyde Wilson [[AKA "Steve Mancha"), and Wilbur Jackson, who were both African-Americans. Did they actually try to sing like "Caucasians" trying to sing like African Americans? Or did they BOTH have blue eyes? I say no! Otherwise, I probably wouldn't have bought their record.

The Two Friends [Clyde Wilson & Wilbur Jackson] record, "Just Too Much To Hope For"/"Family Reunion" came out on Harvey Fuqua's H.P.C. label in 1962 [prior to producer Harvey Fuqua joining the Motown family and bringing some of his acts with him]. "Just Too Much Too Hope For" however was remade years later at Motown by The Monitors, Tammi Terrell and Marvin Gaye & Kim Weston.

[Boogiedown]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P5G3Ffta-ic

[mysterysinger]

The Two Friends album is available on CD - it's pretty good too.

https://www.flickr.com/photos/cookephotography/albums/72157688699354790

[mysterysinger]

For my part I took the meaning of the thread to be white artists signed to Motown - seemed clear enough to me - but does it really matter that much? It's an interesting discussion either way.

[WaitingWatchingLookingForAChance]

For my part I took the meaning of the thread to be white artists signed to Motown - seemed clear enough to me - but does it really matter that much? It's an interesting discussion either way.

The thing is it does matter that much. I've noticed over the years in social media that communication has become murkier and murkier. That's why I asked if someone could explain if the term Blue-Eyed Soul means something different in the UK than in the US. It would explain why there has been confusion here. Your understanding of the thread's title isn't at all what someone in the US would understand that term to mean. It shouldn't be a big deal but honestly, I'm seeing it everywhere that there's a breakdown in communication and it just ends up frustrating everyone. I think I just need to shut up now and disappear once again from social media.

[paul_nixon]

The Two Friends album is available on CD - it's pretty good too.

https://www.flickr.com/photos/cookephotography/albums/72157688699354790

Wow never seen or heard that LP is it typically Motown or what?

[paul_nixon]

The Two Friends [Clyde Wilson & Wilbur Jackson] record, "Just Too Much To Hope For"/"Family Reunion" came out on Harvey Fuqua's H.P.C. label in 1962 [prior to producer Harvey Fuqua joining the Motown family and bringing some of his acts with him]. "Just Too Much Too Hope For" however was remade years later at Motown by The Monitors, Tammi Terrell and Marvin Gaye & Kim Weston.

It appears that DFTMC blurs the lines between the early Two Friends who do appear to have recorded a couple of sides for the label in the very early days and which remain unreleased and the country act that appeared on the Natural Resources/Mowest outlet in the 70's. An easy mistake when the act has an identical name

[mysterysinger]

Wow never seen or heard that LP is it typically Motown or what?

No not a Motown sound - more on the lines of America or Crosby, Still, Nash I would say.

[mysterysinger]

The thing is it does matter that much. I've noticed over the years in social media that communication has become murkier and murkier. That's why I asked if someone could explain if the term Blue-Eyed Soul means something different in the UK than in the US. It would explain why there has been confusion here. Your understanding of the thread's title isn't at all what someone in the US would understand that term to mean. It shouldn't be a big deal but honestly, I'm seeing it everywhere that there's a breakdown in communication and it just ends up frustrating everyone. I think I just need to shut up now and disappear once again from social media.

But a thread title can only be short and sweet which is why it pays to always read the post. That left me in no doubt that the thread was about white artists signed to Motown - especially given the examples quoted. That doesn't need anyone to explain the term "Blue Eyed Soul".

[motony]

the first time I heard the term "Blue-Eyed Soul" was in reference to the Righteous Brothers, way back in 1964.

[mysterysinger]

In all fairness if anyone mentions "Blue Eyed Soul" I immediately think of The Righteous Brothers.

[robb_k]

19905
Sorry! I didn't know about this Duo. But 1972 is quite late for me, and when I started my UN work in Africa and Asia, which took me away from USA most of the year. Interesting coincidence.

[Sotosound]

In all fairness if anyone mentions "Blue Eyed Soul" I immediately think of The Righteous Brothers.
The term might well have started as a description of what they did back in the 60s.

[Motown Eddie]

19905
Sorry! I didn't know about this Duo. But 1972 is quite late for me, and when I started my UN work in Africa and Asia, which took me away from USA most of the year. Interesting coincidence.

I Understand. It's easy since there was more than one act using the name 'Two Friends' [even though it was years apart]. And you were doing your UN work at the time when the Two Friends LP came out in 1972.

PS: Thank You for your Service with the UN.

[mysterysinger]

Then there was the Northern Lights album "Vancouver Dreaming" on Natural Resources which is also available on a Big Pink CD - another very good album really and a sound I would liken to The Association or Mamas and Papas to an extent.

https://www.flickr.com/photos/cookephotography/albums/72157667021148198

[robb_k]

The Two Friends [Clyde Wilson & Wilbur Jackson] record, "Just Too Much To Hope For"/"Family Reunion" came out on Harvey Fuqua's H.P.C. label in 1962 [prior to producer Harvey Fuqua joining the Motown family and bringing some of his acts with him]. "Just Too Much Too Hope For" however was remade years later at Motown by The Monitors, Tammi Terrell and Marvin Gaye & Kim Weston.
19906
I was referring to The Two Friends duo being picked up by Motown in The Harvey-Tri-Phi-HPC-Message folding in with Motown in 1963. At east Clyde Wilson was signed by Motown as a songwriter, as he had, at least 10+ songwriting credits. I can't, at this moment, remember a specific "Jackson" as a Motown songwriting credit on a 1963 or 1964 issued record, or Jobete acetate, or Motown acetate or vinyl demo record, but, I seem to remember seeing one from that period. So, I had aways thought that BOTH members of that duo had been part of Motown for, at least several months [[Wilson, at least the last half of 1963, and al of 1964). But, I never saw a post-HPC Motown-produced recording by that pair. In any case, this is O.T., as they weren't "Caucasians", or "Due-eyed Soul Singers".

[bob_olhsson]

Berry Gordy's original goal was clearly to create another Columbia Records and not just a Chess or Atlantic. Mike Valvano told me his rock band, Mike and the Modifiers, was the second artist Berry ever signed after the Miracles.

[Roger Polhill]

Clyde Wilson later wrote as Steve Mancha.

[robb_k]

Clyde Wilson later wrote as Steve Mancha.
19959
Yes, but I don't remember any credits for Steve Mancha on a Motown issue. I remember a few for Don Juan Mancha [[from whom Steve got that pen name), on early Tamla releases, as he was a songwriter for Motown in 1960 and '61.

[Roger Polhill]

We`re a bit off subject Rob but thanks for that.