importance of the right 1st single

[sup_fan]

i don't know that this theory was as important in the 60s but certainly into the 70s and 80s, the right or wrong lead single could absolutely make or break an album

I think the following changes could have made huge differences in the album performance

Sups 75 - i think leading with a pop song like Its All Been Said or Can't Stop A Girl would have helped break the album into the general market more

MS&S - although there are a LOT of issues that could have been significantly involved with the eventual collapse of the group, i think Wheel was wrong to lead off with and should have been LYG

Ross 83 - i think That's How or maybe Love or Loneliness should have been lead single. maybe You Do It

[reese]

I think EATEN ALIVE was a poor choice for a first single from that album. It certainly turned me off. I would have gone with CHAIN REACTION.

[sup_fan]

I think EATEN ALIVE was a poor choice for a first single from that album. It certainly turned me off. I would have gone with CHAIN REACTION.

in Randy's book, he stated that the song EA was so unlike anything else on the album and set an unfair example of what it would contain

you could actually also say the same thing about Chain. it's retro which is unlike anything else. diana's vocals are much more forward and full, again unlike anything else. While this song has never been a fav of mine [[and i frankly think the EA album is overall one of her worst ever) it is certainly a strong song than the title track with the overly heavy MJ influence.

[TomatoTom123]

I think EATEN ALIVE was a poor choice for a first single from that album. It certainly turned me off. I would have gone with CHAIN REACTION.

Do you think that if they had gone with "Chain Reaction" as the album's first single, it would have performed better in the US?

I like "Eaten Alive" although I do sometimes think it’s a bit of a mess… as in, its enjoyable, but doesn't suit Diana as much as it does Michael [although she does a good job on it]. :)

[reese]

Do you think that if they had gone with "Chain Reaction" as the album's first single, it would have performed better in the US?

I like "Eaten Alive" although I do sometimes think it’s a bit of a mess… as in, its enjoyable, but doesn't suit Diana as much as it does Michael [although she does a good job on it]. :)

I don't know. By that point, her sales were spotty in the US. But I think pop radio might have taken to CR much better than it did to EA. I was almost shocked that it initially peaked at #95.

[reese]

in Randy's book, he stated that the song EA was so unlike anything else on the album and set an unfair example of what it would contain

you could actually also say the same thing about Chain. it's retro which is unlike anything else. diana's vocals are much more forward and full, again unlike anything else. While this song has never been a fav of mine [[and i frankly think the EA album is overall one of her worst ever) it is certainly a strong song than the title track with the overly heavy MJ influence.

I remember a review of the EATEN ALIVE album [[maybe in Rolling Stone?) where the reviewer said he thought the album was unsuccessful because of a poor first single.

[Ollie9]

Starting with “So Close” on “SE”, ross 83, “Eaten Alive” And “RHRAB” suffered from the most abysmal single choices. Even Workin’ Overtime was the wrong song.
Thats a lot of bad decisions.

[BayouMotownMan]

We can speculate on first singles til the cows come home but by the time Eaten Alive was issued RCA was finished with Ross. They had lost a fortune on her and of course the diva antics that Berry Gordy knew how to channel just wore thin on upper management at RCA.

[sup_fan]

We can speculate on first singles til the cows come home but by the time Eaten Alive was issued RCA was finished with Ross. They had lost a fortune on her and of course the diva antics that Berry Gordy knew how to channel just wore thin on upper management at RCA.

true - by the mid to late 80s Diana has pretty much trashed her US recording career. and her relationship with RCA was nonexistent. RCA also had a significant leadership change during her tenure. the new pres was not in favor of the contracts that had been used to lure big named stars. Wasn't Kenny another one that felt this backlash? can't remember. but yeah - RCA's prior regime had spend buckets to land huge artists and then probably never broke even on it.

[Ollie9]

Bad relationship or not, she was still scoring hits throughout Europe.. “Chain Reaction” proved that if the song was strong enough, she was still more then capable of capturing a hit. Her music continued to be played on commercial radio, at least in the UK.

[TheMotownManiac]

We can speculate on first singles til the cows come home but by the time Eaten Alive was issued RCA was finished with Ross. They had lost a fortune on her and of course the diva antics that Berry Gordy knew how to channel just wore thin on upper management at RCA.


by the time eaten alive came out, in four years she had one platinum album, two gold albums, four top 10 singles including one that was number one R&B, +2 more top 20 singles. Swept away project was quite successful even if the single didn’t hit, the album probably qualified for platinum. She had sold millions of albums and singles and RCA coughed up mightily for their half of the video production budget. RCA eventually lost money on all the big contracts they did and people stopped doing them. All the big contracts that were announced subsequently based against artist royalties and not just a clear signing bonus. As far as her diva antics go , I talk to an RCA executive who turned green at the very mention of her name but then again that has nothing to do with what we’re talking about but it is a good way to get a good jab in at Miss Ross.

[TheMotownManiac]

I think the first glaring error was with Diana and Marvin. You’re a special part of me is not that good of a record and not going to make people think “oh I heard that song I want an album just like it! “ just say just say, love twins, maybe my mistake all would’ve been better choices.

on the Supremes I definitely would’ve done it’s all been said before, and had them redo the lead vocals on he’s my man to tighten them up a little bit for the follow up single.

on high energy I would’ve released teardrops first, then walking

we already did baby it’s me, should’ve been coming from the rain

Ross 78: never say I don’t love you or. Maybe where did we go wrong.

Silk electric: should probably have been love lies first., Then muscles.

swept away first single should’ve been missing you or touch by touch

eaten alive definitely should have been chain reaction. After the disaster of the title single radio didn’t want anything to do with that album.

Red hot rhythm and blues: God help me. Shine summertime there is certainly no stand out single on this travesty.

working overtime: bottom line should definitely have been the first single, and not the single remix, just the album version. In paradise, then working overtime or keep on dancing. Period

take me higher: if you’re not gonna love me right had the best chance.

I definitely think these glaring errors were strong contributing factors to the disappointing results of these albums

[Ollie9]

I think the first glaring error was with Diana and Marvin. You’re a special part of me is not that good of a record and not going to make people think “oh I heard that song I want an album just like it! “ just say just say, love twins, maybe my mistake all would’ve been better choices.

on the Supremes I definitely would’ve done it’s all been said before, and had them redo the lead vocals on he’s my man to tighten them up a little bit for the follow up single.

on high energy I would’ve released teardrops first, then walking

we already did baby it’s me, should’ve been coming from the rain

Ross 78: never say I don’t love you or. Maybe where did we go wrong.

Silk electric: should probably have been love lies first., Then muscles.

swept away first single should’ve been missing you or touch by touch

eaten alive definitely should have been chain reaction. After the disaster of the title single radio didn’t want anything to do with that album.

Red hot rhythm and blues: God help me. Shine summertime there is certainly no stand out single on this travesty.

working overtime: bottom line should definitely have been the first single, and not the single remix, just the album version. In paradise, then working overtime or keep on dancing. Period

take me higher: if you’re not gonna love me right had the best chance.

I definitely think these glaring errors were strong contributing factors to the disappointing results of these albums

Of all her albums, ross 83 ranks as the worst balls up. What on earth were they thinking releasing “Ice” and “Upfront” as singles. With the exception of the ridiculous “Girls”, they were the least likely songs to succeed.

[sup_fan]

Ross 78 - lead single should have been You Were The One. Never Say is lovely but i'm not sure if would have worked as well at the time. maybe single 2. regardless is a lovely album track. wasn't it also done by Greg Wright, who did You Were The One and He's My Man for the Sups? clearly this guy should have done more with Diana.

SE - muscles was the right first single. it was a huge hit. prob is the rest of the lp is poor and so any follow up single was pretty much destined to fail. too bad Michael couldn't have produced more of the lp

[florence]

Burt then who can say with any certainty what is going to be a hit?

It's not even as if everyone agrees on what would have been the best single from the albums.

I believe Still In Love and Love Lies from SE would have been UK hits.

For me Eaten Alive was a complete mess, her worst single ever and surely killed off the album.

But there are those who like it and it actually was a hit in several territories [[maybe the MJ connection was a factor?)

In the UK for example any solo Diana Ross record up to the late 70s was guaranteed to land somewhere on the chart.

Even the anaemic Sorry Doesn't Always Make It Right went Top 30.

Then in October 1976 came Do You Know Where You're Going To - a lush ballad, climbing the US chart towards #1, tailor made for UK ears, and guaranteed to go Top 20 but more likely Top 10.

It was a complete flop not even making the Breakers.

[sup_fan]

Burt then who can say with any certainty what is going to be a hit?

It's not even as if everyone agrees on what would have been the best single from the albums.

I believe Still In Love and Love Lies from SE would have been UK hits.

For me Eaten Alive was a complete mess, her worst single ever and surely killed off the album.

But there are those who like it and it actually was a hit in several territories [[maybe the MJ connection was a factor?)

In the UK for example any solo Diana Ross record up to the late 70s was guaranteed to land somewhere on the chart.

Even the anaemic Sorry Doesn't Always Make It Right went Top 30.

Then in October 1976 came Do You Know Where You're Going To - a lush ballad, climbing the US chart towards #1, tailor made for UK ears, and guaranteed to go Top 20 but more likely Top 10.

It was a complete flop not even making the Breakers.

very valid. and that's what makes this such a fun topic lol

in Randy's book he said with the WO set, radio and motown were both really wanting Bottom Line as the lead single but Diana insisted on the title track. oops

so apparently no only do we now have differing opinions but at time of release there were conflicts too

[rovereab]

It's often been said that You Are Everything from Diana & Marvin should have been a US single. It was a very big hit in the UK and should have been the lead single from the album, likewise in the US.

I don't subscribe to the view that the Stylistics had already had a hit in the US as being the reason not to release the song there. Just consider I Heard It Through The Grapevine being a big hit in the USA by Gladys Knight & The Pips and then Marvin Gaye striking even bigger. I think that shows that Motown could have done well with You Are Everything instead of releasing You're A Special Part Of Me.

[TheMotownManiac]

Of all her albums, ross 83 ranks as the worst balls up. What on earth were they thinking releasing “Ice” and “Upfront” as singles. With the exception of the ridiculous “Girls”, they were the least likely songs to succeed.


I remember when we got the single of pieces of ice. We were ecstatic as the intro was playing, and then it never went anywhere. We looked at each other like we must’ve missed some thing and played it right away again. Still nothing. The only track on the album I can honestly say I like a lot is that’s how you start over, I don’t know that it had any chance of hitting as a single, there was a fairly eclectic mix of music in the early 80s so maybe there was a possibility. Nothing else had a chance. When they released let’s go up, I nearly jumped out the window. I thought it was the worst choice of a single since it’s my house, just the most awful choice. What I didn’t know was, worse was coming!

[sup_fan]

I remember when we got the single of pieces of ice. We were ecstatic as the intro was playing, and then it never went anywhere. We looked at each other like we must’ve missed some thing and played it right away again. Still nothing. The only track on the album I can honestly say I like a lot is that’s how you start over, I don’t know that it had any chance of hitting as a single, there was a fairly eclectic mix of music in the early 80s so maybe there was a possibility. Nothing else had a chance. When they released let’s go up, I nearly jumped out the window. I thought it was the worst choice of a single since it’s my house, just the most awful choice. What I didn’t know was, worse was coming!

I think "That's How" could have worked but only moderate hit. perhaps if she'd really laid down a committed, solid, and fun vocal, it might have really charted. but as it is, she comes across rather disinterested and bored. meanwhile the backing track and vocals are highly energized and exciting.

great assessment thought of Pieces. it's frankly more ambiance than anything else. you're right that it just never goes anywhere. there's no rise or climax or peak

[TheMotownManiac]

Ross 78 - lead single should have been You Were The One. Never Say is lovely but i'm not sure if would have worked as well at the time. maybe single 2. regardless is a lovely album track. wasn't it also done by Greg Wright, who did You Were The One and He's My Man for the Sups? clearly this guy should have done more with Diana.

SE - muscles was the right first single. it was a huge hit. prob is the rest of the lp is poor and so any follow up single was pretty much destined to fail. too bad Michael couldn't have produced more of the lp

I have to disagree about silk electric, I am certain Love Lies would’ve hit big. It would’ve fit very well on playlist that had who can it be now and do you really want to hurt me. I thought they had lost their minds when they put out So Close. I just played it again. As an album cut, it’s acceptable. There’s an unpleasantness in the sound that permeates most of the record. I think it might’ve been helped if they went to the chorus after the first verse, but still……. I don’t hear a single there. I would’ve released a third single: either Who, or Anywhere You Run to. It’s unlikely that anywhere would’ve done anything but, it does have a quirky sound that sometimes clicks on top 40. I think Who had a chance….. There are people that think in your arms should’ve gotten out as a 45, but I think it was a little too cloying and it just doesn’t work for me on a level that I could say, “that’s a radio single. “

I really believe never say I don’t love you, if it got on some playlists, would have hit. Against it is the fact that it’s a very laid-back record, but I still would definitely have given it a shot. When I saw the 45 of what you gave me, I couldn’t believe my eyes. Then I never even considered that anyone anywhere ever would think that that is going to get on a radio playlist. I don’t mind it on the album, but the world would’ve survived without it completely.

[TheMotownManiac]

It's often been said that You Are Everything from Diana & Marvin should have been a US single. It was a very big hit in the UK and should have been the lead single from the album, likewise in the US.

I don't subscribe to the view that the Stylistics had already had a hit in the US as being the reason not to release the song there. Just consider I Heard It Through The Grapevine being a big hit in the USA by Gladys Knight & The Pips and then Marvin Gaye striking even bigger. I think that shows that Motown could have done well with You Are Everything instead of releasing You're A Special Part Of Me.

grapevine, and ain’t no mountain high enough we’re both complete reworkings of this song. You are everything is not. Still it might’ve had a shot. Special part of me would be my sixth or seventh choice as a single.

[George Solomon]

This is an interesting thread. It's amazing how someone's favorite is unlistenable to another. Numerically, "My Mistake" was planned as the first single. I think it would have gone top 10 and is still remembered as the biggest US hit from Diana & Marvin. "You're A Special Part" is the only song on the album produced by Berry Gordy. He also did about 50 different mixes. Or maybe Russ did them, I don't know. This is just speculation on my part but I think this was just a case of the chairman getting his single out there first. On the strength of both Diana and Marvin coming off of solo #1 singles it did pretty well at #12 pop, but I think it's mostly forgotten today.

[sup_fan]

I have to disagree about silk electric, I am certain Love Lies would’ve hit big. It would’ve fit very well on playlist that had who can it be now and do you really want to hurt me. I thought they had lost their minds when they put out So Close. I just played it again. As an album cut, it’s acceptable. There’s an unpleasantness in the sound that permeates most of the record. I think it might’ve been helped if they went to the chorus after the first verse, but still……. I don’t hear a single there. I would’ve released a third single: either Who, or Anywhere You Run to. It’s unlikely that anywhere would’ve done anything but, it does have a quirky sound that sometimes clicks on top 40. I think Who had a chance….. There are people that think in your arms should’ve gotten out as a 45, but I think it was a little too cloying and it just doesn’t work for me on a level that I could say, “that’s a radio single. “

I really believe never say I don’t love you, if it got on some playlists, would have hit. Against it is the fact that it’s a very laid-back record, but I still would definitely have given it a shot. When I saw the 45 of what you gave me, I couldn’t believe my eyes. Then I never even considered that anyone anywhere ever would think that that is going to get on a radio playlist. I don’t mind it on the album, but the world would’ve survived without it completely.

i think the problem with SE is they apparently placed her recording booth at the bottom of a well! lol and upon further review of the tracks, i think you've mentioned several that are pretty solid. Who, Love Lies and Anywhere you run to. for whatever reason i also think AYRT was on Fools. in my mind the first two RCA albums are really just all 1 big project. and i tend to think that the stronger tracks were on WDFFIL and SE was the dud leftovers.

So Close is barely a passable album track. she just had a big hit with doing a retro song. and supposedly she was trying to pass herself as a youthful contemporary artist. so it was time to skip retro. but other than Ross 83, every album includes at least 1 retro tune. not a good strategy.

[sup_fan]

This is an interesting thread. It's amazing how someone's favorite is unlistenable to another. Numerically, "My Mistake" was planned as the first single. I think it would have gone top 10 and is still remembered as the biggest US hit from Diana & Marvin. "You're A Special Part" is the only song on the album produced by Berry Gordy. He also did about 50 different mixes. Or maybe Russ did them, I don't know. This is just speculation on my part but I think this was just a case of the chairman getting his single out there first. On the strength of both Diana and Marvin coming off of solo #1 singles it did pretty well at #12 pop, but I think it's mostly forgotten today.

see i like You're a Special. My Mistake has never really done much for me. but YASPOM and You Are Everything are two of my favs from the duets. Just Say is another i really like. but that's about it.

like the Sup/Top duets, the D/M duet package is pretty superfluous. none really stand as a shining testament to partnering of some of pop and r&b's biggest names. almost all of the material is frankly subpar, given the mega volume of talent.

[Ollie9]

I remember when we got the single of pieces of ice. We were ecstatic as the intro was playing, and then it never went anywhere. We looked at each other like we must’ve missed some thing and played it right away again. Still nothing. The only track on the album I can honestly say I like a lot is that’s how you start over, I don’t know that it had any chance of hitting as a single, there was a fairly eclectic mix of music in the early 80s so maybe there was a possibility. Nothing else had a chance. When they released let’s go up, I nearly jumped out the window. I thought it was the worst choice of a single since it’s my house, just the most awful choice. What I didn’t know was, worse was coming!

I rather like the cool, laidback vibe of “Pieces Of Ice”, though sadly it lacks the key ingredients to make it a single hit. I agree with you as regards “That’s How You Start” Over”. Even today it sounds fresh and engaging.
“You Do It” is the one for me. It has a kind of “One Shining Moment”, east coast vibe to it that would have been extremely radio friendly in 83.
It’s interesting that she performed “Maniac” at the Central Park concert as it’s a song that suits her voice and would have fitted perfectly on the Ross 83 album. I actually prefer her version to Micheal Sembello.
p.s “It’s My House is my favourite song from The Boss set.

[daviddh]

i think that part of the issue is how to market Diana Ross, she is a pop singer??? soul., adult contemporary, disco at times.
each release had to handled individually ,and to be honest, many times Diana has not got the respect she is due.
with Baby is me, i find it one of her best albums and three singles reaching top ten on A/C charts, they should have followed thru with promoting it as such and Come In From The Rain as a single,and maybe Top Of the World. more Pr from diana and motown.

one of the issues i would have with Diana, in the 70s, when she would appear , on the Tonight show and perform Ridin High. not sure where that song came from ,but personally ,every television appearance should have been accounted for like when she was a Supreme. did we need to hear Lady is a tramp, dont rain on my parade,nobody business if i do.
with Ross 78, i think this was a motown issue with BG interfering and the HDH walking out on him.then to release a low budget type album on Diana.? but You Were the One gets my choice. Never Say is beautiful and i totally agree Greg Wright should have handled the rest of the album.
with Eaten Alive, aside from the title track, there are some gems, Crimes of Passion was kick butt and i like some of the ballads, Im watching you. i would have issued the tilte cut as a video only to promote the album and dance track only.
Ross 83, yep Thats How You Start Over?? wtf ...a few gems on this album, imo this could be one of her best RCA albums. replace silly songs like Girls. there were 4 out takes from this album .im sure any one of them would have been better than Up Front or Girls.
the rest is just marketing Diana in a proper forum. the Force album was a great A/C album
Take Me Higher needed a stronger follow up but motown came up with Im Gone.
Workin O also Bottom Line and then Paradise.
another big issue is Diana being off the charts for so long between albums at times. in the 80s she was a bit more consistent but in the 70s, not so much
the late 80s, after EA album, she got married and disappeared. i knew it was over by this point, but she had a good 25 years up to that point

[copley]

Burt then who can say with any certainty what is going to be a hit?

It's not even as if everyone agrees on what would have been the best single from the albums.

I believe Still In Love and Love Lies from SE would have been UK hits.

For me Eaten Alive was a complete mess, her worst single ever and surely killed off the album.

But there are those who like it and it actually was a hit in several territories [[maybe the MJ connection was a factor?)

In the UK for example any solo Diana Ross record up to the late 70s was guaranteed to land somewhere on the chart.

Even the anaemic Sorry Doesn't Always Make It Right went Top 30.

Then in October 1976 came Do You Know Where You're Going To - a lush ballad, climbing the US chart towards #1, tailor made for UK ears, and guaranteed to go Top 20 but more likely Top 10.

It was a complete flop not even making the Breakers.

You have confused me. 'Do You Know Where You're Going To' reached #5 in the UK but it was a late arrival! Released in Oct 1975 it did not enter the Top 50 until 3rd April 1976 just a few weeks ahead of 'Love Hangover'. What happened or where it went to in that almost six month period I have no idea! I bought my 45 when it was released.

[TheMotownManiac]

This is an interesting thread. It's amazing how someone's favorite is unlistenable to another. Numerically, "My Mistake" was planned as the first single. I think it would have gone top 10 and is still remembered as the biggest US hit from Diana & Marvin. "You're A Special Part" is the only song on the album produced by Berry Gordy. He also did about 50 different mixes. Or maybe Russ did them, I don't know. This is just speculation on my part but I think this was just a case of the chairman getting his single out there first. On the strength of both Diana and Marvin coming off of solo #1 singles it did pretty well at #12 pop, but I think it's mostly forgotten today.


fans purchased the single because the album wasn’t out yet, and radio jumped on it because the pair was hot as a pistol at the moment, but I Don’t think there was any appeal outside of their perspective fan bases. I remember being so thrilled having a duet by them that I liked it enough to play it regularly, but I knew it couldn’t hit. I think it was lucky to get to number 12 and doomed it’s follow up. I agree my mistake would’ve gone top 10, but I think love twins, for fall of 73, would’ve been a home run on pop, R&B Was pretty good potential for quiet storm, and perhaps even a few spins on AC.

[TheMotownManiac]

I rather like the cool, laidback vibe of “Pieces Of Ice”, though sadly it lacks the key ingredients to make it a single hit. I agree with you as regards “That’s How You Start” Over”. Even today it sounds fresh and engaging.
“You Do It” is the one for me. It has a kind of “One Shining Moment”, east coast vibe to it that would have been extremely radio friendly in 83.
It’s interesting that she performed “Maniac” at the Central Park concert as it’s a song that suits her voice and would have fitted perfectly on the Ross 83 album. I actually prefer her version to Micheal Sembello.
p.s “It’s My House is my favourite song from The Boss set.

yeah but there’s a difference between what we like and what would be a good single. Good single hast to have the ability to convince a programmer to add it, a wide net so the general public will buy it and interest people in the album. POI had absolutely the best promotional tool any single has ever had: RCA promo department, a video of arguable quality and, TV exposure to hundreds of millions of people worldwide. It attracted some people it just didn’t attract enough people. I like it’s my house, enough, but can you imagine it on a playlist with bad girls don’t stop ‘til you get enough, knock on wood, ring my bell, grease songs……? I just don’t think it had any commercial appeal whatsoever. I love the single version of sorry doesn’t always make it right. I think it’s a brilliant record and if Olivia Newton-John‘s name was on it or Dolly partner, I think it would hit. But it’s the last thing anyone expected from her and couldn’t get any adds. What program director is going to put that on their Pop station or R&B station? I would be surprised if the country radio programmers ever even played it. But everyone I played it for liked it in spite of itself. Well maybe not everyone but, a lot. Maybe if she did it on TV five times, it might’ve connected like missing you did. But my point is it doesn’t matter what we like, it just has to fit the criteria and this one sure did not.

[florence]

You have confused me. 'Do You Know Where You're Going To' reached #5 in the UK but it was a late arrival! Released in Oct 1975 it did not enter the Top 50 until 3rd April 1976 just a few weeks ahead of 'Love Hangover'. What happened or where it went to in that almost six month period I have no idea! I bought my 45 when it was released.

The record was astonishingly a flop when it was released in October 1975.

It was only exceptional circumstances which led to it charting 6 months later.

It was forgotten about until Diana began her UK tour in mid-March 1976 which brought it to the public's attention - it spent 2 weeks just outside the chart [[probably because there would have been very few copies in the shops until the record company was aware of the demand) then quickly shot up to the top 5.

It was never officially re-released.

[copley]

Indeed Florence, it's another of these Motown mysteries! It also took a staggering 13 weeks to reach #1 in the US!

[Ollie9]

yeah but there’s a difference between what we like and what would be a good single. Good single hast to have the ability to convince a programmer to add it, a wide net so the general public will buy it and interest people in the album. POI had absolutely the best promotional tool any single has ever had: RCA promo department, a video of arguable quality and, TV exposure to hundreds of millions of people worldwide. It attracted some people it just didn’t attract enough people. I like it’s my house, enough, but can you imagine it on a playlist with bad girls don’t stop ‘til you get enough, knock on wood, ring my bell, grease songs……? I just don’t think it had any commercial appeal whatsoever. I love the single version of sorry doesn’t always make it right. I think it’s a brilliant record and if Olivia Newton-John‘s name was on it or Dolly partner, I think it would hit. But it’s the last thing anyone expected from her and couldn’t get any adds. What program director is going to put that on their Pop station or R&B station? I would be surprised if the country radio programmers ever even played it. But everyone I played it for liked it in spite of itself. Well maybe not everyone but, a lot. Maybe if she did it on TV five times, it might’ve connected like missing you did. But my point is it doesn’t matter what we like, it just has to fit the criteria and this one sure did not.

Nonsensical lyrics impacted “Pieces Of Ice” chances of becoming a hit. I like it, but never thought it a good choice as a single.
As for “Its My House”, it charted higher in the UK then either “The Boss or “No one Gets The Prize”. It would have done even better had it not had to compete with a cover version released at the same time. It’s appeal is based upon simple, yet modern lyrics with Diana relishing her new found independence. It reached No #6 in South Africa I believe and is still popular here in the UK.
”Sorry Doesn't Always Make It Right” was played regularly on mainstream radio in the UK where it became a minor hit. I’ve always thought her voice sounds gorgeous on the song.

[florence]

As for “Its My House”, it charted higher in the UK then either “The Boss or “No one Gets The Prize”. It would have done even better had it not had to compete with a cover version released at the same time. It’s appeal is based upon simple, yet modern lyrics with Diana relishing her new found independence. It reached No #6 in South Africa I believe and is still popular here in the UK.

I just wish some enterprising DJ at Radio 1 had happened to listen to the B-side of No-One Gets The Prize [[Never Say I Don't Love You) and given it a play on the Station - you just never know what might have happened.

I would really love to know just how It's My House really sold.

While it did pretty well in the US the whole Boss project received a somewhat lukewarm reaction in the UK.

At that stage BMRB was compiling the UK charts where a tick was manually put in a diary when a copy of a record was sold - obviously open to manipulation and it was well known many false "ticks" were entered.

At one stage a programme did an expose of chart hyping [[it might have World In Action) and It's My House was specifically mentioned - they had a member of Storm [[the group who released a cover version of House) on who explained how the opposing companies perpetrated false sales to try to steal a march - maybe the record shouldn't have been in the top 40?

[jim aka jtigre99]

In Hindsight, there are some personal choices I would have liked to have been seen made. I think Ain't No Mountain should have been the first single for Diana Ross and she could have followed that up with Reach Out and Touch just like the Supremes picked the stronger song first and the sing a long as the second. I think coming out of the gate strong would have been a great idea. Sometimes the second single actually caused momentum to slow. Witness Sleepin', Touch,Where Do I go From here. And the 70's Supremes didn't even release a second single from the two most important albums-nothing to follow up Stoned Love or I'm Gonna Let My Heart Do The Walking.

[sup_fan]

In Hindsight, there are some personal choices I would have liked to have been seen made. I think Ain't No Mountain should have been the first single for Diana Ross and she could have followed that up with Reach Out and Touch just like the Supremes picked the stronger song first and the sing a long as the second. I think coming out of the gate strong would have been a great idea. Sometimes the second single actually caused momentum to slow. Witness Sleepin', Touch,Where Do I go From here. And the 70's Supremes didn't even release a second single from the two most important albums-nothing to follow up Stoned Love or I'm Gonna Let My Heart Do The Walking.

i agree - Mountain as the debut single for diana would have been amazing. it was so different from any Sups material she did that it would have perfectly launched her solo career. something so new, so different, so revolutionary. unlike anything heard on the radio before, or frankly since

but just like Everybody was a poor 2nd single, Reach out and touch would have bombed following such a masterpiece debut. I think [[had it not been the flip to mountain) Dark Side might have worked. but frankly there's little else on the lp that could follow mountain. lots of excellent songs though

Sleepin and Touch should never have been singles.

Where Do I Go was a decent enough disco track and it charted as well as HMM. the booklets and liner notes we've received about HMM hitting #1 on region disco charts are true. it did that in NYC. but it was co-listed with WDIGFH so it too is a number 1 dance track. they both also charted individually. HMM hit #2 and Where hit #3. Yes HMM made a very minor appearance on the r&b charts but hardly a hit there. also the group continued to perform HMM on network tv appearances from the spring of 75 through the fall, well after WDIGFH was released and they should have been promoting it.

[copley]

Diana's 'It's My House' is still my fav track from 'The Boss' and was far superior to Storm's version. Their version was OK but it killed Diana's chances of a Top 20 hit of which her last was 'Love Hangover' in '76!

[sup_fan]

Diana's 'It's My House' is still my fav track from 'The Boss' and was far superior to Storm's version. Their version was OK but it killed Diana's chances of a Top 20 hit of which her last was 'Love Hangover' in '76!

didn't The Boss go to 19? but still, yeah it didn't hit as it should. it also was a slooooooooww chart climber. took a while to get going, even though she was on tour promoting it, sang it on Tonight Show. it took 6 weeks after it entered the charts for it to finally crack the Top 40! and then ANOTHER 6 weeks to crack the top 20.

as strong of a song as it is, that's a very odd chart performance. far below expectations

[copley]

I'm talking UK as the post I replied to referred to 'It's My House' in the UK. 'The Boss' was #40 UK and #19 US.

[sup_fan]

I'm talking UK as the post I replied to referred to 'It's My House' in the UK. 'The Boss' was #40 UK and #19 US.

ah my mistake. got the discussion confused. but your point is so spot one - why did The Boss just not click in the UK?

i know in the US, as the Boss was climbing the charts, there was the beginnings of the "disco sucks" movement. that might have impacted public reception to it.

were there similar public thoughts in UK? was new wave and other forms starting to catch on?

[Ollie9]

ah my mistake. got the discussion confused. but your point is so spot one - why did The Boss just not click in the UK?

i know in the US, as the Boss was climbing the charts, there was the beginnings of the "disco sucks" movement. that might have impacted public reception to it.

were there similar public thoughts in UK? was new wave and other forms starting to catch on?

I can remember when the album was first released to being rather underwhelmed with “The Boss”. I have since grown to love it, but never thought it dynamic enough for lead single.
The finger snapping “It’s My House” remains my favourite track. Had it been released as the first single, it would probably have gone UK top 15 or even higher with promotion. It was still a minor hit, reaching #32 on the pop charts.
Diana s ballads have always been popular with us brits, so would have followed it up with the hugely underrated “All For One”

[copley]

Dear sup-fan. The week that 'The Boss' peaked at #40 above it in the UK Top 75 were 'Born To Be Alive', 'Bad Girls' & 'Good Times'. 15 records classed as punk were in the Top 75. Here is a link to that chart :)

https://www.officialcharts.com/charts/singles-chart/19790729/7501/

By the end of 1979, punk was waning and new wave was yet to arrive. Most chart music was IMHO awful. I liked only 15 out of 75!

https://www.officialcharts.com/charts/singles-chart/19791230/7501/

Diana had no big hits after 'Love Hangover' #10 in 1976 till 'Upside Down' #2 in 1980! She has the amazing record of having had a UK Singles chart entry from 1970 - 1996! That's not likely to ever be broken, well not in my lifetime!

[Ollie9]

I just wish some enterprising DJ at Radio 1 had happened to listen to the B-side of No-One Gets The Prize [[Never Say I Don't Love You) and given it a play on the Station - you just never know what might have happened.

I would really love to know just how It's My House really sold.

While it did pretty well in the US the whole Boss project received a somewhat lukewarm reaction in the UK.

At that stage BMRB was compiling the UK charts where a tick was manually put in a diary when a copy of a record was sold - obviously open to manipulation and it was well known many false "ticks" were entered.

At one stage a programme did an expose of chart hyping [[it might have World In Action) and It's My House was specifically mentioned - they had a member of Storm [[the group who released a cover version of House) on who explained how the opposing companies perpetrated false sales to try to steal a march - maybe the record shouldn't have been in the top 40?

Thanks for sharing the info Flo. If financial figures were that easy to exploit, chart hyping must have been rife.
I think “House” is a little different from anything else she had released up to that point. It’s also a song that you remember, being as copley mentions far superior to Storms version which probably held it back.
”Never Say I Don’t Love You” is a pretty little song that makes for a nice album track. Had it been included on the “To Love Again” set and released as a single in 81 it might have caught on.

[TheMotownManiac]

Nonsensical lyrics impacted “Pieces Of Ice” chances of becoming a hit. I like it, but never thought it a good choice as a single.
As for “Its My House”, it charted higher in the UK then either “The Boss or “No one Gets The Prize”. It would have done even better had it not had to compete with a cover version released at the same time. It’s appeal is based upon simple, yet modern lyrics with Diana relishing her new found independence. It reached No #6 in South Africa I believe and is still popular here in the UK.
”Sorry Doesn't Always Make It Right” was played regularly on mainstream radio in the UK where it became a minor hit. I’ve always thought her voice sounds gorgeous on the song.


it’s my house was a disaster follow up to the boss. It didn’t even chart pop. It was almost the worst choice for the second single. I was certain I ain’t been licked or no and get the prize would be the second single and then probably the third single. I honestly don’t know what they were thinking it was just so contrary to anything being played on the radio top 40. It got played on some soul stations but it didn’t lead to anything it was just slightly a little ahead of its time I think, in the USA. It’s interesting that what hit’s on one side of the pond may not hit on the other side.

[Ollie9]

it’s my house was a disaster follow up to the boss. It didn’t even chart pop. It was almost the worst choice for the second single. I was certain I ain’t been licked or no and get the prize would be the second single and then probably the third single. I honestly don’t know what they were thinking it was just so contrary to anything being played on the radio top 40. It got played on some soul stations but it didn’t lead to anything it was just slightly a little ahead of its time I think, in the USA. It’s interesting that what hit’s on one side of the pond may not hit on the other side.

I think that divide was often not taken into consideration. As mentioned, the highly regarded “No One Gets The Prize” bombed here in the UK yet might have been a good choice for the USA. I also think “All For One” might have done well this side of the pond but not USA.
The more I think about it, The Boss album might very well have been similar to “Baby It’s Me” in being a superb album that doesn’t really feature mega hit singles.
Ive often wondered how well the immaculate “You Are Everything” might have done had it been the first single release in the USA. Even today it remains one of Diana’s most popular songs here in the UK.

[florence]

In relative terms It's My House would seem to be more popular now in the UK than it was at the time.

To the end of last year it was her 15th most-streamed track - probably the Eric Kupper re-mix had something to do with this.

[sup_fan]

it’s my house was a disaster follow up to the boss. It didn’t even chart pop. It was almost the worst choice for the second single. I was certain I ain’t been licked or no and get the prize would be the second single and then probably the third single. I honestly don’t know what they were thinking it was just so contrary to anything being played on the radio top 40. It got played on some soul stations but it didn’t lead to anything it was just slightly a little ahead of its time I think, in the USA. It’s interesting that what hit’s on one side of the pond may not hit on the other side.

i think the issue with IMH is that it never really goes anywhere. the overall style and vibe are hip and all. but from a song standpoint, it doesn't deliver the goods. the intro is catchy, the verses are rather simplistic but there's some meaning there. the choruses are only so-so IMO. not terrible but not overly memorable. and the ending is just odd. after the bridge you get 1 more chorus and then this long extended ending that just meanders.

[Boogiedown]

It’s album filler. A quicky.
The potential is there but it wasn’t thoroughly explored.

[Boogiedown]

it’s my house was a disaster follow up to the boss. It didn’t even chart pop. It was almost the worst choice for the second single. I was certain I ain’t been licked or no and get the prize would be the second single and then probably the third single. I honestly don’t know what they were thinking it was just so contrary to anything being played on the radio top 40. It got played on some soul stations but it didn’t lead to anything it was just slightly a little ahead of its time I think, in the USA. It’s interesting that what hit’s on one side of the pond may not hit on the other side.
Maniac , this is how wiki says the singles were released :



"The Boss [[https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Boss_[[Diana_Ross_song))"
Released: May 22, 1979
"No One Gets The Prize[2] [[https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Boss_[[Diana_Ross_album)#cite_note-2)[3] [[https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Boss_[[Diana_Ross_album)#cite_note-3)[4] [[https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Boss_[[Diana_Ross_album)#cite_note-4)"
Released: September 21, 1979
"It's My House [[https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/It%27s_My_House)"
Released: October 20, 1979

[reese]

Maniac , this is how wiki says the singles were released :



"The Boss [[https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Boss_[[Diana_Ross_song))"
Released: May 22, 1979
"No One Gets The Prize[2] [[https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Boss_[[Diana_Ross_album)#cite_note-2)[3] [[https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Boss_[[Diana_Ross_album)#cite_note-3)[4] [[https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Boss_[[Diana_Ross_album)#cite_note-4)"
Released: September 21, 1979
"It's My House [[https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/It%27s_My_House)"
Released: October 20, 1979


NO ONE GETS THE PRIZE was never released as a single. It might have been planned but it didn't happen.

[florence]

Maniac , this is how wiki says the singles were released :



"The Boss [[https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Boss_[[Diana_Ross_song))"
Released: May 22, 1979
"No One Gets The Prize[2] [[https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Boss_[[Diana_Ross_album)#cite_note-2)[3] [[https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Boss_[[Diana_Ross_album)#cite_note-3)[4] [[https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Boss_[[Diana_Ross_album)#cite_note-4)"
Released: September 21, 1979
"It's My House [[https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/It%27s_My_House)"
Released: October 20, 1979


Assuming Wiki has them right those dates look very odd.

The Boss charted on Billboard and Record World on 14 July, 07 July on Cashbox so you're looking at around 6 weeks to chart!

It was a slow burner not making spectacular leaps but solid progress with a bullet each week.

It only went into decline when No One was issued and quickly dropped off the chart [[it peaked at #21 on CB, 2 below BB on 06 October).

Unless there's compelling reasons such as in the case of Love Hangover they didn't usually release a follow-up while a record was still making gains so No One's release looks odd.

Then within a month It's My House gets issued - all very strange.

It would take at the very least 2/3 weeks from release date to charting so No-One wasn't really given a chance.

It's a mystery.

[sup_fan]

in the US the release schedule was:

The Boss [[single)
released 5/22/79
entered the Billboard charts on 7/14/79
peaked on the Billboard charts on 10/6/79
was on the charts for 16 weeks
80-71-61-57-45-40-36-32-28-35-22-21-19-19-44-92

It's My House
released 10/20/79
did not chart on the Billboard Top 100 pop singles

The Boss [[album)
released 5/23/79
entered the Billboard charts on 6/16/79
peaked on the Billboard charts on 9/29/79
was on the charts for 36 weeks
120-88-44-39-36-33-30-25-23-21-19-16-15-15-15-14-14-22-21-37-59-77-87-113-123-133-133-131-150-164-174-174-186-199-196-198

So the single was on the charts longer than other releases like Reach out and touch [[9 weeks), Mountain [[13 weeks), Remember me [[10 weeks), Last Time i saw him [[14 weeks). And a few of her big hits were on the charts only slightly longer Mahogany [[17 weeks), Love Hangover [[18 weeks), I'm coming out [[17 weeks)

The album charted longer than Diana Ross 1970 [[28 weeks), Touch Me in the Morning [[28 weeks), Diana Ross 1976 [[32 weeks), Greatest Hits US version [[22 weeks)

[Spreadinglove21]

In the end, The Boss and It's My House are considered landmark moments in her career. They may not have ruled the charts at time of release but they made enough of an impression to permeate the culture.

[sup_fan]

i agree. The Boss has definitely maintained itself in the overall public regarding DR. not to the level of Mountain or Upside Down but still people know it. IMH is probably a bit less so but it's still recognized and associated with her. she was still using it in her show for years.

both songs are like My World. MWIEWY didn't go to #1 and didn't sell or chart like a YCHL or Baby Love or other #1 hits. but it had endured.

IMH maybe fits better as a live version or as an album track, as opposed to a single. as part of the album, it adds a vibe and feeling. you put the album on while you're doing housework and just groove along with things. and live you can jam to it, the lack of form and structure of the song can be a benefit here. allowing the musicians to groove out, people to dance about and just creating a magnificent mood and feeling.

as a single, it needs to be able to stand on it's own for 2:45. no context of the album, no live musicians jamming out. who knows what'll come before it or what'll be played after. and so in that environment, i can understand why it didn't work

[Boogiedown]

:



"The Boss [[https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Boss_[[Diana_Ross_song))"
Released: May 22, 1979
"No One Gets The Prize[2] [[https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Boss_[[Diana_Ross_album)#cite_note-2)[3] [[https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Boss_[[Diana_Ross_album)#cite_note-3)[4] [[https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Boss_[[Diana_Ross_album)#cite_note-4)"
Released: September 21, 1979
"It's My House [[https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/It%27s_My_House)"
Released: October 20, 1979


The September release is perhaps the 12 inch.

[reese]

:



"The Boss [[https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Boss_[[Diana_Ross_song))"
Released: May 22, 1979
"No One Gets The Prize[2] [[https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Boss_[[Diana_Ross_album)#cite_note-2)[3] [[https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Boss_[[Diana_Ross_album)#cite_note-3)[4] [[https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Boss_[[Diana_Ross_album)#cite_note-4)"
Released: September 21, 1979
"It's My House [[https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/It%27s_My_House)"
Released: October 20, 1979


The September release is perhaps the 12 inch.

In the US, a medley of NO ONE GETS THE PRIZE and THE BOSS was released as the flipside to a promo-only 12 inch of IT'S MY HOUSE.

The same medley was also released as the flipside to the 12-inch of DIANA ROSS AND THE SUPREMES' MEDLEY OF HITS.

[Boogiedown]

Good stuff Reese.
ITS MY HOUSE was the LP version not a club tailored remix.

most curious.
now I’m seeing it’s a bit longer.
and now I’m listening to it very nice break and center of song build up.

much better than I’ve given it credit for .

[reese]

Good stuff Reese.
ITS MY HOUSE was the LP version not a club tailored remix.

most curious.
now I’m seeing it’s a bit longer.
and now I’m listening to it very nice break and center of song build up.

much better than I’ve given it credit for .

The promo version of IT'S MY HOUSE is a remix that was never released commercially until 1999, when it was included as a bonus track on THE BOSS expanded edition cd.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3EVS1J166GA

[sup_fan]

here's the full release schedule

US

5/22/79 The Boss b/w I'm in the World 7"
5/23/79 The Boss lp
5/79 The Boss b/w Lovin', Livin', Givin' 12"
10/20/79 It's My House b/w Sparkle 7"
2/80 Medley of hits b/w No One Gets the Prize 12"

International
6/79 The Boss b/w I'm in the World 7"
6/79 The Boss lp
7/79 The Boss b/w Lovin', Livin', Givin' 12"
9/79 No one gets the prize b/w Never say I Don't love you 7"
11/79 It's my house b/w Sparkle 7"
11/79 It's my house b/w No one gets the prize/The Boss 12"

note - the international 12" release of the Sups medley used Love Hangover as the flipside


expanded content releases
*CD re-release of The Boss in 1999 with album plus 12" The Boss and 12" It's My House
*CD re-release of diana 1980 contained 12" I Ain't Been Licked and 12" combo No One Gets the Prize/The Boss
*CD release of Diana Anthology contained 12" No One Gets the Prize


Once in the morning is the only dance track to not have a 12" release. there are no extended/12" versions of the 3 ballad All for one, Sparkle, I'm in the world

[Ollie9]

As with Baby It’s Me it’s a great album, but nothing necessarily screams hit in the fashion of a “Love Hangover” or “I’m Coming Out”.

[Jaap]

To me personally, “The Boss” is the quintessential Diana Ross song. The first time I remember hearing it was when an abridged version of the HBO Standing Room Only concert was broadcast on Dutch television in 1981 and I’ve loved it ever since. It is such a joyful and uplifting song and her vocals are amazing. Interestingly, “The Boss” didn’t even chart in the Netherlands, while the version by The Braxtons did in 1997.

[sup_fan]

see i think the title track The Boss does scream hit. it's such an infectious tune, there's the catchy "on and off!" and it's joyous. driving in your car, you can easily sing along with it. the single version didn't cut out anything to ruin the song

also the idea of infusing disco with gospel was something rather new. you had the electronic influences of Donna Summer, the bass-heavy sounds layered with falsettos for the Bee Gees, a zillion one-hit wonders popping up. the sound and style of The Boss could easily fit in with a choir on Sunday morning [[even if the lyric isn't exactly religious lol). so it wasn't just rehashing prior sounds.

IMO either the public was already waning on disco or motown's promotional department lost focus on the song.

[TNSUN]

"Once in the Morning" should have followed "The Boss". "The Boss" album is as fresh as ever. Oh my...

[sup_fan]

i'd vote for No One as single 2. it has more story to the lyrics, more melody. Once In AM is a great, hot dance track but i don't know if it would be as strong as a single

[reese]

see i think the title track The Boss does scream hit. it's such an infectious tune, there's the catchy "on and off!" and it's joyous. driving in your car, you can easily sing along with it. the single version didn't cut out anything to ruin the song .

I agree.

The first time I heard the THE BOSS on the radio, I really felt that Diana had a major hit on her hands. Not long after, one of my local djs played NO ONE GETS THE PRIZE as well. There was something special about it both and I felt they were much better than the songs on her previous album, ROSS '78. Personally, I was pissed that I had to wait for a month for my next allowance before I could buy the album.

[Ollie9]

It’s kind of redundant whether folks felt “The Boss” screamed hit or not. The fact remains it only did moderately well in the USA and flopped elsewhere.
USA 19
UK 40
CAN 48
It certainly could never be accused of setting the global charts alight. The song received masses of airplay here in the UK as i’m sure it must have in the USA.
It really is a very pleasant little number, just not dynamic enough to go the extra mile.

[Boogiedown]

i'd vote for No One as single 2. it has more story to the lyrics, more melody. Once In AM is a great, hot dance track but i don't know if it would be as strong as a single
Besides she already did her yearning in the morning angle and that’s about enough of that young lady !

[Boogiedown]

see i think the title track The Boss does scream hit. it's such an infectious tune, there's the catchy "on and off!" and it's joyous. driving in your car, you can easily sing along with it. the single version didn't cut out anything to ruin the song

also the idea of infusing disco with gospel was something rather new. you had the electronic influences of Donna Summer, the bass-heavy sounds layered with falsettos for the Bee Gees, a zillion one-hit wonders popping up. the sound and style of The Boss could easily fit in with a choir on Sunday morning [[even if the lyric isn't exactly religious lol). so it wasn't just rehashing prior sounds.

IMO either the public was already waning on disco or motown's promotional department lost focus on the song.
If the public was waning on disco then the follow ups UPSIDE DOWN and OUT OF THE CLOSET should have been doomed.
id be curios to look at the Hot 100 when BOSS was peaking on it … date ??
what was the amount of disco competition on it at the time ?

THE BOSS is masterful full throttle orchestral disco strings horns etc. with no synth/ electronics that I hear. ? Motown did very little of that , for Diana the only one I believe is LIVING LOVIN ETC.
Also could make quite a list of gospel infused disco, one of the first that comes to mind is MIGHTY HIGH by The Mighty Clouds Of Joy which topped the earliest charts.
id say what the Boss had especially going for it was a creative storyline . Understandably a lot of disco songs were about disco and dancing And you can only carry that so far especially on the radio.
I can’t fault THE BOSS in any way , hence it’s #1 positioning on the disco chart which it was designed for. It’s a perfect execution of exuberance.

Perhaps they were still worried of pigeonholing Diana in that genre and weren’t seeking to limit her as a disco queen, hence no push.

[BobbyC]

I've been looking at old trade magazines, and The Boss, the album, was played massively in clubs. All the cuts! It was just huge. It dominated the dance charts like no other at the time.

[Circa 1824]

I've been looking at old trade magazines, and The Boss, the album, was played massively in clubs. All the cuts! It was just huge. It dominated the dance charts like no other at the time.

100% true. I was there. And think, Ross never did another album with A&S. Mind boggling…….

[Ollie9]

100% true. I was there. And think, Ross never did another album with A&S. Mind boggling…….

Diana was chasing big pop hits, and The Boss” didn’t deliver in that regard. I’m sure a couple of top ten singles would have ensured another outing.

[Jaap]

Well, at least "The Boss" as an album showed that Ross was still relevant and paved the way to "diana." I was too young back then, but my older friends tell me that they thought Diana's career was over when "Ross" 78 was released, but were pleasantly surprised by "The Boss." In that sense, even if it didn't hit as high on the charts than it should/could have, "The Boss" was some sense of "come back", at least in the club scene. And then "diana" came out!

[Circa 1824]

Diana was chasing big pop hits, and The Boss” didn’t deliver in that regard. I’m sure a couple of top ten singles would have ensured another outing.

It was at the top of the dance charts for weeks. The entire world was dancing to it and screaming along with Ross during the yelping part of The Boss. Ross was riding high! She was as hot as a pistol.

Yeah, it didn’t hit radio, but that was BG’s fault, not A&S.

[sup_fan]

So i pulled up the July 28, 1979 issue of billboard to see what else was riding the charts

Bad Girls was #1
Ring My Bell, Good Times, Hot Stuff, makin it, Gold, I want you to want me, shine a little love, when you're in love w a beautiful woman, main event/fight completed the Top 10

meanwhile The Boss had just entered a few weeks prior and was up at 61

I wonder if the high gloss and gospel sound of The Boss was out of step with the heavier "rock" style of Disco you had with Donna Summer and the sleek urban-cool of Chic.

[Ollie9]

So i pulled up the July 28, 1979 issue of billboard to see what else was riding the charts

Bad Girls was #1
Ring My Bell, Good Times, Hot Stuff, makin it, Gold, I want you to want me, shine a little love, when you're in love w a beautiful woman, main event/fight completed the Top 10

meanwhile The Boss had just entered a few weeks prior and was up at 61

I wonder if the high gloss and gospel sound of The Boss was out of step with the heavier "rock" style of Disco you had with Donna Summer and the sleek urban-cool of Chic.

You could well be right sup. The only review of the album I can remember was from music mag Black Echoes who described the production as being as smooth as a suchard egg. Perhaps as on the production on BIM, it was just a little to glossy for the time.

[Ollie9]

It was at the top of the dance charts for weeks. The entire world was dancing to it and screaming along with Ross during the yelping part of The Boss. Ross was riding high! She was as hot as a pistol.

Not in the UK we weren’t. We were bopping to Chics “Good Times” And Ami Stewart’s ”Light My Fire” amongst others.

[sup_fan]

some other top hits of the year include

If you think i'm sexy
heart of glass
my sharona
we are family
don't bring me down
i want you to want me
reunited
i will survive
don't stop till you get enough
video killed the radio star
good times
no more tears
september
roxanne
message in a bottle
ain't no stopping us now
got to be real
he's the greatest dancer

[Spreadinglove21]

Well, at least "The Boss" as an album showed that Ross was still relevant and paved the way to "diana." I was too young back then, but my older friends tell me that they thought Diana's career was over when "Ross" 78 was released, but were pleasantly surprised by "The Boss." In that sense, even if it didn't hit as high on the charts than it should/could have, "The Boss" was some sense of "come back", at least in the club scene. And then "diana" came out!

Did many people seriously think her career was over in 1978 at time of Ross 78 album release? I know Wiz was a set back and box office disappointment and Baby It's Me and its singles didn't set charts on fire, but really, career over? Slump or dip, sure, but over?!

[RanRan79]

"The Boss" was a killer cut. I can understand why it was chosen as the first single, but I do believe "Prize" was the better song. "The Boss" caught on with the public, but I do think it lacks something that a "Bad Girls" or "Ring My Bell" had which is why it ultimately didn't score as big. "Prize"'s intro immediately grabs. The track is hot and Diana is on fire vocally. As Sup points out, "The Boss" is fun, but I think it had a better chance of going top 10 if it had followed "Prize".

As usual Motown screwed things up. "Prize" wasn't even an official single. "House" was released with too much time between singles. I like "It's My House". Of the songs on the album "House" is the one I actually heard on the radio for years growing up. People loved it. I was shocked to learn that it wasn't a big hit because radio stations were playing it like it had been. For whatever reason pop radio didn't get behind it. I'm guessing it wasn't pop enough. I think it works as a final single, but more life could have been squeezed out of the album. "Once In the Morning" could've been the third single. I think it had hit potential. Then after "Once", comes "House". "Sparkle" has elements that I think could've made it a good single, but it needed an almost complete re-working to be a viable candidate.

In the end, "The Boss", and I guess even "It's My House", just don't rate as high as a lot of the other disco cuts of the time, especially when compared alongside what Donna Summer was releasing at the time. However, as a whole album, I think The Boss lp blows Donna's Bad Girls album out of the water, song for song, and holds up much better today.

[Ollie9]

"The Boss" was a killer cut. I can understand why it was chosen as the first single, but I do believe "Prize" was the better song. "The Boss" caught on with the public, but I do think it lacks something that a "Bad Girls" or "Ring My Bell" had which is why it ultimately didn't score as big. "Prize"'s intro immediately grabs. The track is hot and Diana is on fire vocally. As Sup points out, "The Boss" is fun, but I think it had a better chance of going top 10 if it had followed "Prize".

As usual Motown screwed things up. "Prize" wasn't even an official single. "House" was released with too much time between singles. I like "It's My House". Of the songs on the album "House" is the one I actually heard on the radio for years growing up. People loved it. I was shocked to learn that it wasn't a big hit because radio stations were playing it like it had been. For whatever reason pop radio didn't get behind it. I'm guessing it wasn't pop enough. I think it works as a final single, but more life could have been squeezed out of the album. "Once In the Morning" could've been the third single. I think it had hit potential. Then after "Once", comes "House". "Sparkle" has elements that I think could've made it a good single, but it needed an almost complete re-working to be a viable candidate.

In the end, "The Boss", and I guess even "It's My House", just don't rate as high as a lot of the other disco cuts of the time, especially when compared alongside what Donna Summer was releasing at the time. However, as a whole album, I think The Boss lp blows Donna's Bad Girls album out of the water, song for song, and holds up much better today.

“No One Gets The Prize” crept to a staggering #59 when released as a single in the UK. I agree in that it should have been released as the the first single in the USA.
The fact it’s such a great album makes it all the more annoying that dance hits aside, it never produced a sizeable hit. A top ten single might have got the ball rolling.
I adore “Sparkle”, but it’s not single material. “All For One” being imo a far more commercial ballad and seemingly a song Diana really liked.
”Once In The Morning” would have been a huge dance hit, not sure it has enough for the pop charts.

[Jaap]

Did many people seriously think her career was over in 1978 at time of Ross 78 album release? I know Wiz was a set back and box office disappointment and Baby It's Me and its singles didn't set charts on fire, but really, career over? Slump or dip, sure, but over?!

"Over" is indeed a bit dramatic [[though that's what they did say), and of course it was said in retrospect. But then again, Ross was not as big a star in the Netherlands as she was in the US and the UK during the 1970s. "Diana Ross [[1976)" is the only album that charted in the 1970s, and only 3 top 20 songs: "You Are Everything," "Theme From Mahogany" and the #1 "A Brand New Day." It was in the early 1980s that she really became a superstar here.

[reese]

"Over" is indeed a bit dramatic [[though that's what they did say), and of course it was said in retrospect. But then again, Ross was not as big a star in the Netherlands as she was in the US and the UK during the 1970s. "Diana Ross [[1976)" is the only album that charted in the 1970s, and only 3 top 20 songs: "You Are Everything," "Theme From Mahogany" and the #1 "A Brand New Day." It was in the early 1980s that she really became a superstar here.

I remember most of my peers thinking of Diana as sort of "old-fashioned". I brought the AN EVENING WITH DIANA ROSS album to music class and the teacher put the needle down on THE LADY IS A TRAMP. Why did she do that? The kids were screaming "That's jazz!" I had to move the needle to LOVE HANGOVER to settle things down.

But when she came out with THE BOSS, with a hot record and a hot new youthful look, things changed. And of course, after "diana" came out, she was really popular again.

[Ollie9]

I remember most of my peers thinking of Diana as sort of "old-fashioned". I brought the AN EVENING WITH DIANA ROSS album to music class and the teacher put the needle down on THE LADY IS A TRAMP. Why did she do that? The kids were screaming "That's jazz!" I had to move the needle to LOVE HANGOVER to settle things down.

But when she came out with THE BOSS, with a hot record and a hot new youthful look, things changed. And of course, after "diana" came out, she was really popular again.

Your Music classes sounded a lot more fun then mine. We were to busy playing the recorder or learning how to play the clarinet lol.

[Boogiedown]

….But then if avoiding being boxed into the disco genre was a concern, A&S should have been consulted to be sure to include something releasable as a single that was not a thumper. Instead what resulted was just the opposite.
I’ve always suspected FOUND A CURE was also offered to Diana, but including that really would have made it a disco project.
Instead they piggybacked off the BOSS release for their own #1 disco tune. Most clever of them as the DJs loved the seamless ability to mix the two.
Both tunes benefitted by their similarity in clubs, but I suppose it could also be argued that FOUND A CURE hampered THE BOSS’ progression as some radio programmers likely chose it over Diana not wanting two rather similar songs in their roster.

[Boogiedown]

Also it seems an odd coincidence that Ashford and Simpson came out with their own project so soon on the heels of Diana’s .
I’ve wondered about whether they didn’t interrupt their own project to go in and work with Diana. Perhaps they let her choose from material they had in the works for themselves. One that they had come up with for Diana though might have been FOUND A CURE playing off the clever LOVE HANGOVER line of not needing one. Diana may have said no to it , but liked instead THE PRIZE, which they handed her. To me THE PRIZE sounds like an intended A+S song with Diana substituting/participating.

[reese]

Also it seems an odd coincidence that Ashford and Simpson came out with their own project so soon on the heels of Diana’s .
I’ve wondered about whether they didn’t interrupt their own project to go in and work with Diana. Perhaps they let her choose from material they had in the works for themselves. One that they had come up with for Diana though might have been FOUND A CURE playing off the clever LOVE HANGOVER line of not needing one. Diana may have said no to it , but liked instead THE PRIZE, which they handed her. To me THE PRIZE sounds like an intended A+S song with Diana substituting/participating.

I don't think its that odd. Many artists were putting out an album a year back then. Ashford and Simpson were a hot production team during those years in addition to doing their own albums. So projects were bound to overlap at times. Besides Diana's album, during this period, they also produced two albums for Gladys Knight and the Pips, as well as albums by Ullanda and Ray Simpson, plus tracks for Stephanie Mills and Teddy Pendergrass.

[Boogiedown]

I guess the odd part is that they’d put out a single so similar to Diana’s right on top of it .
another scenario would be they worked in her project in tandem with their own as they could juggle the studio time .

[Boogiedown]

It was mentioned above they were surprised A&S never worked with Diana after this, perhaps that’s a part of the explanation. Maybe she didn’t like their immediate competition with her with similar product of their own.

[sup_fan]

It was mentioned above they were surprised A&S never worked with Diana after this, perhaps that’s a part of the explanation. Maybe she didn’t like their immediate competition with her with similar product of their own.

i agree that it's odd she never paired with them again and it's a true shame. someone else speculated that in the 80s, perhaps she was more determined to focus on the pop charts and that A&S might be too r&b?

[reese]

It was mentioned above they were surprised A&S never worked with Diana after this, perhaps that’s a part of the explanation. Maybe she didn’t like their immediate competition with her with similar product of their own.

Supposedly, when she was preparing the Central Park concert [[s) for release as a live album, Ashford and Simpson were going to produce some studio sides for it as well. I don't know how true that is. I think I read it in one of the fan club newsletters.

That said, although I love the three albums that Diana did with them, I don't know how good a fourth might have been. I love A&S but found their albums after leaving Warner Bros. to be not so great.

[Boogiedown]

Agreed and
SOLID AS A ROCK makes me cringe every time it finds me.

[Ollie9]

I prefer every track on Diana’s The Boss” to anything on the A&S “Stay Free” album.

[reese]

I prefer every track on Diana’s The Boss” to anything on the A&S “Stay Free” album.

STAY FREE is my least favorite of the WB albums. But they bounced back well with A MUSICAL AFFAIR.

[Ollie9]

STAY FREE is my least favorite of the WB albums. But they bounced back well with A MUSICAL AFFAIR.

“A Musical Affair” is a better album, but for me not nearly as solid as “The Boss”.
Perhaps i’m biased, but Diana is one of a few singers that can take an average song and make it into something quite special.

[Boogiedown]

“A Musical Affair” is a better album, but for me not nearly as solid as “The Boss”.
Perhaps i’m biased, but Diana is one of a few singers that can take an average song and make it into something quite special.


I think that's right, although that finally caught up with her in the eighties.

This song sounds kind of contrived lyrically , sometimes you can tell when a songwriter is just exercising his trade, but it's got a good energy, maybe were it performed by Diana ....


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-yKFlgg8WiM

[TNSUN]

"I Ain't Been Licked" would have been the best single after "The Boss". It has underground sound which was upcoming at the time. It has a rock edge to it. "It's My House" is a great tune as John Mayer also joyfully performed it on "The Andy Cohen Show".

[Ollie9]

I think that's right, although that finally caught up with her in the eighties.

This song sounds kind of contrived lyrically , sometimes you can tell when a songwriter is just exercising his trade, but it's got a good energy, maybe were it performed by Diana ....


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-yKFlgg8WiM

It’s not that dissimilar to “Once In The Morning”. I think Diana’s voice would have given the song more uplift and energy. Like the entire album, not terribly memorable.