Are Two Guys Getting It On On Miracles' LOVE MACHINE?

[Boogiedown]

My conclusion:
Absolutely Yes.

But I'll let you ponder it over before I make my case.

For starters, listen throughout but especially starting @ 5:10 thru 5:50:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hfgq4HMdMdg

[TomatoTom123]

I mean, ain’t nobody straight in LA. :p:p

[copley]

Video not available.

[carlo]

My conclusion:
Absolutely Yes.


We all hear what we want to hear, and see what we want to see ;)

[Boogiedown]

We all hear what we want to hear, and see what we want to see ;)

and we all hear what there is to hear and we all see what there is to see, and we all taste what there is to taste , and smell what there…… oh enough of that

so back to the tune ,
what is it Carlo, you “want to hear” ?

[Boogiedown]

I mean, ain’t nobody straight in LA. :p:p
Yes …. That is part of the total equation here. LOVE MACHINE is from a thematic album package that delves into homosexuality front and center in its content.

[Boogiedown]

Video not available.

bummer.

Try this one :


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gLBWHQIfxEY

same drill applies 5:10 thru 5:50 ....

[TomatoTom123]

I’d never really paid much attention to the, uhh, groans and moans before. But to me, it sounds like about 3 guys and 1 girl getting it on… LOL

[gordy_hunk]

You have a very vivid imagination.

[soulster]

Boogiedown, you are letting your imagination get the best of you.

The album is not about homosexuality. It is not front and center. Just because they put one song on it called "Ain's Nobody Straight In L.A." does not mean that it's what the album is about. In fact, if you listen to the banter at the end of that song, it clearly talks about straight men looking for women. The grunting on "Love Machine" is just that: grunting. Why can't it be a man grunting with a woman?

Geez! Where do people come up with this stuff? next you'll be saying that the heavy breathing on "Tell me Something Good" by Rufus is also gay.

[TomatoTom123]

I mean, we can't know for sure that it’s NOT two men grunting. It could be.

To me, it does sound like more than one male voice grunting, but I also hear a woman. I think it’s just about unfettered intimacy, generally!!! :p

[Boogiedown]

I mean, we can't know for sure that it’s NOT two men grunting. It could be.

To me, it does sound like more than one male voice grunting, but I also hear a woman. I think it’s just about unfettered intimacy, generally!!! :p

Hi Tom! Good for you to take the time to actually LISTEN to the song before commenting here. That's all it takes to hear two distinct male voices taking turns grunting over each other, shall we say.

Can you tell exactly where on the song you also hear a female voice in ecstasy ?? I don't hear it, I've tried.:cool::)

[Boogiedown]

Boogiedown, you are letting your imagination get the best of you.

The album is not about homosexuality. It is not front and center. Just because they put one song on it called "Ain's Nobody Straight In L.A." does not mean that it's what the album is about. In fact, if you listen to the banter at the end of that song, it clearly talks about straight men looking for women. The grunting on "Love Machine" is just that: grunting. Why can't it be a man grunting with a woman?

Geez! Where do people come up with this stuff? next you'll be saying that the heavy breathing on "Tell me Something Good" by Rufus is also gay.


Soulster! It's good to see you back! Glad I could come up with a topic to entice you! :)I've enjoyed your postings here in the past.

So, yes the album has a bigger concept than just homosexuality, its about life in LA....exciting times for the Detroit Motowners. However, gayness as a topic is most certainly brought forth front and center as never before [can anyone name a song that was dedicated to gayness so directly prior to this one? OK maybe BIG BRUCE :p]....right down to the title itself....ANSILA.... forthright and even remarkably casual about it. I can't think of any other album that took on this topic so 'front and center' like this one did in the history of music. [ & certainly from old school days. anyone?]
Why can't it be 'a man with a woman grunting'? ......because, its two guys that're being heard....

If there's a female involved we wouldn't have to be reaching to infer it ....it would've [and easily could've] been made clear.


In fact, if you listen to the banter at the end of that song, it clearly talks about straight men looking for women.
And of course this is not LOVE MACHINE you're referring to, but an entirely different song, AINT NOBODY STRAIGHT IN LA that closes out that way...
yes the banter created there: this was the escape clause of the tune, the cop-out....they wanted to make it clear to their buying public, that they, The Miracles, weren't singing about themselves [even if perhaps some of them were].





https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cm_cFzVAoo8

Oh my!!:o
yes another moaning record.
However the grunting heard here is clearly in response to a female's continuous 'encouragement' shall we say ...throughout the record and following the lines :

what I got will knock your pride aside....
what I've got to give will sure enough do you good

nope. nothing gay about it.

[TomatoTom123]

Hi Tom! Good for you to take the time to actually LISTEN to the song before commenting here. That's all it takes to hear two distinct male voices taking turns grunting over each other, shall we say.

Can you tell exactly where on the song you also hear a female voice in ecstasy ?? I don't hear it, I've tried.:cool::)

Hey Boogie! Listening again, I think the female groan I’m hearing may be one or two high-pitched male groans… perhaps imitating a woman. To me, it sounds like all 4 Miracles are joining in. :D

[soulster]

Soulster! It's good to see you back! Glad I could come up with a topic to entice you! :)I've enjoyed your postings here in the past.

So, yes the album has a bigger concept than just homosexuality, its about life in LA....exciting times for the Detroit Motowners. However, gayness as a topic is most certainly brought forth front and center as never before [can anyone name a song that was dedicated to gayness so directly prior to this one? OK maybe BIG BRUCE :p]....right down to the title itself....ANSILA.... forthright and even remarkably casual about it. I can't think of any other album that took on this topic so 'front and center' like this one did in the history of music. [ & certainly from old school days. anyone?]
Why can't it be 'a man with a woman grunting'? ......because, its two guys that're being heard....

If there's a female involved we wouldn't have to be reaching to infer it ....it would've [and easily could've] been made clear.


And of course this is not LOVE MACHINE you're referring to, but an entirely different song, AINT NOBODY STRAIGHT IN LA that closes out that way...
yes the banter created there: this was the escape clause of the tune, the cop-out....they wanted to make it clear to their buying public, that they, The Miracles, weren't singing about themselves [even if perhaps some of them were].





https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cm_cFzVAoo8

Oh my!!:o
yes another moaning record.
However the grunting heard here is clearly in response to a female's continuous 'encouragement' shall we say ...throughout the record and following the lines :

what I got will knock your pride aside....
what I've got to give will sure enough do you good

nope. nothing gay about it.


Oh, I check in once in a while, mainly to catch up on any new releases that may interest me. I also look to see about any political stuff, but all i've found is a thread about Kyle Rittenhouse being acquitted. I'm thinking news and politics is avoided around here because of the bad blood. Shocked no one is talking about Ukraine, though.

About the album: it's excellent, and I wonder how Berry Gordy released it. I'm sure he wasn't happy about it, given some of the subject matter. Motown was still trying to push inoffensive ballads and disco records in 1976.

I don't know what "Big Bruce" is, but there have been several songs about homosexuality in the past, even if they weren't explicitly so. "Strange Fruit" by Billie Holliday, anyone?

When I hear that grunting on "Love Machine", i'm thinking multitracking. I'm thinking of sex..er...love machines, not gay machines.

And, do you have any evidence that any of those Miracles members at the time were gay? It's just a song, man! You know the stereotype about Hollywood and gays, and that stereotype includes liberals, drugs, sex, wealthy, carefree people with all the free time in the world. Of course L.A. is a huge city, the second largest in the country, but has the largest land mass, and is prone to earthquakes and tremors.

The album and song focus on just one aspect of it circa 1976. It's just a city that just happened to have been the entertainment capital at the time.

Regarding the Rufus song: It was written by Stevie Wonder for the band Rufus. It was 1974. The word "pride" meant something way different then than it does now, or at least had a different connotation.

I know this forum is populated with gays, but, c'mon!

[thanxal]

but there have been several songs about homosexuality in the past, even if they weren't explicitly so. "Strange Fruit" by Billie Holliday, anyone?

I've always read that song is about lynchings in the south. Lyrics below.


Southern trees bear a strange fruit
Blood on the leaves and blood at the root
Black bodies swinging in the Southern breeze
Strange fruit hanging from the poplar trees

Pastoral scene of the gallant South
The bulging eyes and the twisted mouth
Scent of magnolias sweet and fresh
Then the sudden smell of burning flesh

Here is a fruit for the crows to pluck
For the rain to gather, for the wind to suck
For the sun to rot, for the tree to drop
Here is a strange and bitter crop

[Boogiedown]

Soulster,

funny how things can be misread or not made properly clear by the poster in the first place in these exchanges. In the case of TELL ME SOMETHING GOOD , I wasn’t being sarcastic , I really was agreeing that there’s nothing gay about it. It’s written to be about a female who has the hots coaxing a guy, who judging from the male moans, obliges . It never occurred to me that she’s doing so because the guy has to be convinced to be attracted to her femininity.

That would be quite a stretch , …. or would it, hee hee …one that’s now kind of amusing me .


is AINT NOBODY STRAIGHT IN LA the first song to use the word “gay”
in that context so explicitly?, no innuendo, double meaning etc.

[RanRan79]

I've always read that song is about lynchings in the south. Lyrics below.


Southern trees bear a strange fruit
Blood on the leaves and blood at the root
Black bodies swinging in the Southern breeze
Strange fruit hanging from the poplar trees

Pastoral scene of the gallant South
The bulging eyes and the twisted mouth
Scent of magnolias sweet and fresh
Then the sudden smell of burning flesh

Here is a fruit for the crows to pluck
For the rain to gather, for the wind to suck
For the sun to rot, for the tree to drop
Here is a strange and bitter crop


"Strange Fruit" is indeed about lynchings.

[soulster]

"Strange Fruit" is indeed about lynchings.

Yes, but people have misinterpreted the content based solely on the title. I once read a critic's comment of it in the past that did just that [[I don't really respect most music critics, anyway).

Bottom line: saying the grunting in "Love Machine" are two gay guys is a product of an overactive imagination. Aside from themes of human sexuality on the album, there are also numerous silly lines about L.A. falling into the ocean on the track "City Of Angels".

[tjl]

Huh - I always thought those grunts were like the "ooh yeas" - the computer making those sounds like the love machine was Hal in 2001 or something - or Agnes in the Twilight Zone, a computer with a personality?

I never equated them to people - just sound effects from a machine.

[Boogiedown]

Huh - I always thought those grunts were like the "ooh yeas" - the computer making those sounds like the love machine was Hal in 2001 or something - or Agnes in the Twilight Zone, a computer with a personality?

I never equated them to people - just sound effects from a machine.
Me too!
although I never cared for the song much and therefore haven’t paid that much attention to it —- AND if one were only familiar with hearing it via the radio bitd as I was and never listened to the full length album version , as I didn’t …. Well guess where exactly at what point the radio single has been elected to fade out , yep…. just as the frolicking begins.
Now I have to say I’m surprised that people aren’t hearing what I’m hearing and it’s got me questioning what’s going on. I’m just noticing all this for the first time as I present it, but I fully expected to get yawns and comments like, of course everybody knows about that, “old news” as this crowd has a tendency to do. But nary a one. I can’t be the first person ever to notice this.
Only Tom seems to be relating to what I’m talking about and even he keeps insisting he’s hearing multiples [all the Miracles ?] while I’m hearing two gents grunting.
so it turns out there’s a caveat to the listening experience I’ll get into soon in a post when I have more time.

In the meantime let’s consider the lyrics. Firstly, what’s missing —-there’re lots of gender neutral “baby” references but never words like “girl” “woman” “lady” and no “ she” s. The absence of these words might just be fitting to the song , but it might also be intentionally ambiguous. Whatever the reason, convenient to my argument, they aren’t there.
Some lyric sites seem to go out of their way to put in a “she” at one point where it’s clearly a “you” being sung, as other sites dictate correctly.

As to lyrics themselves, there’s one particularly odd line that’s in there that stands out.
I’ll see if anyone else picks up on it , while I get to work.
Composing by phone instead of computer sucks.

[TomatoTom123]

A lack of gender specific nouns is interesting Boogie! I’d not considered any of these things before if I'm honest, but whatever the intention, I definitely hear more than one MALE voice grunting in the song. Whether this was for a deliberate effect [[as if they were grunting back at each other in a ‘gay’ way]], or whether it was just to layer the sound, I'm not sure. :)

[MIKEW-UK]

From Wikipedia
City of Angels is an album by the Motown soul group The Miracles, released on Motown Records' Tamla label in September 1975. The group's fourth album recorded after replacing lead singer Smokey Robinson with Billy Griffin in 1972, City of Angels is a concept album, depicting of a man from "Anytown, U.S.A." who follows his estranged girlfriend Charlotte to Los Angeles, where she has gone in hopes of becoming a star. All of the tracks on the album were written by Billy Griffin and Miracles bass singer Pete Moore. Freddie Perren and Moore served as the album's producers.
The album's first single, "Love Machine", peaked at number-one on the Billboard Hot 100 on March 6, 1976, and was a multi-million-selling Platinum single,[3] becoming the most successful single of The Miracles' career. Its success coincided with the rise of the disco craze of the late 1970s. Another song on City of Angels, "Ain't Nobody Straight in L.A.", caused controversy due to addressing the subject of homosexuality: "Ain't nobody straight in L.A./It seems that everybody is gay."


If anyone out there has the CD reissue on Universal 2010, there is a comprehensive essay by David Nathan and featured interviews with the composers Warren "Pete" Moore and Billy Griffin

[soulster]

For what it's worth, I isolated those grunts the best as I could using RX7, and you can clearly hear female "ahhhs" in there. There are not two guys getting it on.

https://we.tl/t-DebfkcUSKU

[MIKEW-UK]

Soulster, that's some impressive sound analysis. Thanks for taking the time and making the effort. Very good.

[144man]

I'm going to keep very quiet on this subject as I don't want to get beaten up by Bruce Willis, who you may remember broke into this song when he was appearing in an episode of "Friends":)

[TomatoTom123]

I'm going to keep very quiet on this subject as I don't want to get beaten up by Bruce Willis, who you may remember broke into this song when he was appearing in an episode of "Friends":)

I’m only on season 4 at the moment so can’t wait for that episode, heeeeee :D

[tjl]

I had a girlfriend once that loved WHAM's "Love Machine" cover, she thought it was their original song. Let's just say the relationship didn't last too long when she thought the Beatles also did "You've Really Got A Hold On Me" first and the Stones "Going To A Go-Go" first - - it was the 80s in my late teens, but still, I had to say - no way, this can never work!

[Boogiedown]

From Wikipedia
City of Angels is an album by the Motown soul group The Miracles, released on Motown Records' Tamla label in September 1975. The group's fourth album recorded after replacing lead singer Smokey Robinson with Billy Griffin in 1972, City of Angels is a concept album, depicting of a man from "Anytown, U.S.A." who follows his estranged girlfriend Charlotte to Los Angeles, where she has gone in hopes of becoming a star. All of the tracks on the album were written by Billy Griffin and Miracles bass singer Pete Moore. Freddie Perren and Moore served as the album's producers.
The album's first single, "Love Machine", peaked at number-one on the Billboard Hot 100 on March 6, 1976, and was a multi-million-selling Platinum single,[3] becoming the most successful single of The Miracles' career. Its success coincided with the rise of the disco craze of the late 1970s. Another song on City of Angels, "Ain't Nobody Straight in L.A.", caused controversy due to addressing the subject of homosexuality: "Ain't nobody straight in L.A./It seems that everybody is gay."


If anyone out there has the CD reissue on Universal 2010, there is a comprehensive essay by David Nathan and featured interviews with the composers Warren "Pete" Moore and Billy Griffin


Yes according to wiki [although where in the album is this relationship actually explored?] : he follows his 'estranged' [wonder what's going on between them that bought that about:rolleyes:] girlfriend to Hollywood where upon arrival he's excited to learn 'that everybody is gay'. Meanwhile Charlotte's so lonely [according to the song POOR CHARLOTTE] that she kills herself, resulting in the man from Anytown USA being so devastated, he focuses on his newfound adventure of returning to gay bars ....

[Boogiedown]

Soulster, that's some impressive sound analysis. Thanks for taking the time and making the effort. Very good.

Yes it is.:cool:

But these grunting exchanges go on for about four minutes, I wish Soulster, you had presented all of it, instead of a limited snippet, it would offer more clarity by listening to it in its entirety.
Listening to the part you've provided, some might hear Billy's carrying-ons as sounding a little , 'womanly' .... ??

By this time, The Miracles were a group of all male singers. I doubt they would go to the bother of bringing in a female [an Andante? Syreeta?] to moan a little and then bury it amongst multiple male groans.

By comparison, and as a likely inspiration to the concept at play here, coming off the charts as a million selling #1 soul song, just as The Miracles went into the studio that summer of 1975:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-xItIxyykXk

Now that's how you present a female's groaning part on a record if that's your intention.

[soulster]

I had a girlfriend once that loved WHAM's "Love Machine" cover, she thought it was their original song. Let's just say the relationship didn't last too long when she thought the Beatles also did "You've Really Got A Hold On Me" first and the Stones "Going To A Go-Go" first - - it was the 80s in my late teens, but still, I had to say - no way, this can never work!

Really? I totally understand, but I would have had fun introducing her to all the originals.

[soulster]

Yes it is.:cool:

But these grunting exchanges go on for about four minutes, I wish Soulster, you had presented all of it, instead of a limited snippet, it would offer more clarity by listening to it in its entirety.
Listening to the part you've provided, some might hear Billy's carrying-ons as sounding a little , 'womanly' .... ??

By this time, The Miracles were a group of all male singers. I doubt they would go to the bother of bringing in a female [an Andante? Syreeta?] to moan a little and then bury it amongst multiple male groans.

By comparison, and as a likely inspiration to the concept at play here, coming off the charts as a million selling #1 soul song, just as The Miracles went into the studio that summer of 1975:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-xItIxyykXk

Now that's how you present a female's groaning part on a record if that's your intention.

Hah! Yeah! Only to be followed six months later by Donna Summer's "Love To Love You Baby"!

You know, in light of that Wiki explanation, maybe you are onto something, Boogiedown. Whatever, that's what I love about the music of the 70s: it was a crazy time where anything went, or people got away with anything, with no apologies!

[Boogiedown]

Hah! Yeah! Only to be followed six months later by Donna Summer's "Love To Love You Baby"!

You know, in light of that Wiki explanation, maybe you are onto something, Boogiedown. Whatever, that's what I love about the music of the 70s: it was a crazy time where anything went, or people got away with anything, with no apologies!

but wait Soulster , I need more push back !....I haven't finished presenting my case yet! :p lol!

Now you are thinking more like me....why is this so outrageous an idea .... it's the seventies where anything goes , if it feels good do it ...."freedom of expression is really the thing" is what the Miracles declare in AINT NOBODY STRAIGHT.
Also, how else does LOVE MACHINE fit in with this concept album? The tie in would be if this song is about the gay stuff specifically brought up in ANSILA ....

If someone were to tell me about the Major Harris record, where a women moans sexually all over it, and how this was thought appropriate for family radio ... and I didn't already know it to be so ...I would have said "You're kidding me..."
But there it is, and in plain sight. Why is this so impossible then on LOVE MACHINE from that same time ....masked as was thought to be a clever , safer approach , but there if one pays attention... Pushing the envelope ...

This appearance on Soul Train cracks me up. Harris just stands there while there's this anonymous woman groaning overhead . Seems most uncomfortable .


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6Fo5ObyKGOM

It doesn't help that Major's persona seems like some stuffy middle aged businessman, a horny boss with his young secretary getting it on in the back room of the office perhaps? lol!

And Soulster , you've lead me right into Donna Summer which I've wanted to mention. What is already airing in Europe that same summer LOVE MACHINE was created ? LOVE TO LOVE YOU BABY. It's increasingly the "in" thing right now.


How did all this explicitness on pop records ever get started ? Blame it on the French and
Je t'aime... moi non plus from the late sixties.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GlpDf6XX_j0

There's quite a read about it in wiki. Some highlights:





France Dimanche [[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/France_Dimanche) said the "groans, sighs, and Bardot's little cries of pleasure [give] the impression you're listening to two people making love".[3] [[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Je_t%27aime..._moi_non_plus#cite_note-simmons-3) The first time Gainsbourg played it in public was in a Paris restaurant immediately after they recorded it. Birkin said that "as it began to play all you could hear were the knives and forks being put down. 'I think we have a hit record', he said."

The song culminates in orgasm [[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Orgasm) sounds by Birkin: mostly because of this, it was banned from radio in Spain, Sweden, Brazil, the UK,[11] [[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Je_t%27aime..._moi_non_plus#cite_note-omm-11) Italy,[12] [[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Je_t%27aime..._moi_non_plus#cite_note-italy-12) and Portugal,[[I]citation needed [[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Citation_needed)] banned before 11 pm in France, not played by many radio stations in the United States because it was deemed too risqué,[2] [[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Je_t%27aime..._moi_non_plus#cite_note-evene-2) and denounced by the Vatican [[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vatican_City) and the L'Osservatore Romano [[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/L%27Osservatore_Romano);[11] [[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Je_t%27aime..._moi_non_plus#cite_note-omm-11)[12] [[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Je_t%27aime..._moi_non_plus#cite_note-italy-12) one report even claimed the Vatican excommunicated the record executive who released it in Italy.[8] [[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Je_t%27aime..._moi_non_plus#cite_note-zwerin-8) Birkin says Gainsbourg called the Pope "our greatest PR man".[6]
[[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Je_t%27aime..._moi_non_plus#cite_note-telegraph-6)
[[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Je_t%27aime..._moi_non_plus#cite_note-telegraph-6)In the UK, it was released on the [[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Je_t%27aime..._moi_non_plus#cite_note-telegraph-6)Fontana [[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fontana_Records) label, but, after reaching number two, it was withdrawn from sale. Gainsbourg arranged a deal with Major Minor Records [[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Major_Minor_Records) and on re-release it reached number one, the first banned number one single in the UK[11] [[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Je_t%27aime..._moi_non_plus#cite_note-omm-11) [have to say ,I don't understand how that works] ,

Gainsbourg asked her to sing an octave higher than Bardot, "so you'll sound like a little boy".

Gainsbourg also asked Marianne Faithfull [[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marianne_Faithfull) to record the song with him; she said: "Hah! He asked everybody"

When groaning records were becoming the rage ...JUNGLE FEVER... PILLOW TALK ... this version was again released in the UK in late 1974 charting for nine weeks.

US radio broadcasters decided "no" to JE T'AIME. It didn't even reach the Top half of the Hot 100.


Soulster:
Whatever, that's what I love about the music of the 70s: it was a crazy time where anything went, or people got away with anything, with no apologies!

Exactly. ...

[Sotosound]

but wait Soulster , I need more push back !....I haven't finished presenting my case yet! :p lol!

Now you are thinking more like me....why is this so outrageous an idea .... it's the seventies where anything goes , if it feels good do it ...."freedom of expression is really the thing" is what the Miracles declare in AINT NOBODY STRAIGHT.
Also, how else does LOVE MACHINE fit in with this concept album? The tie in would be if this song is about the gay stuff specifically brought up in ANSILA ....

If someone were to tell me about the Major Harris record, where a women moans sexually all over it, and how this was thought appropriate for family radio ... and I didn't already know it to be so ...I would have said "You're kidding me..."
But there it is, and in plain sight. Why is this so impossible then on LOVE MACHINE from that same time ....masked as was thought to be a clever , safer approach , but there if one pays attention... Pushing the envelope ...

This appearance on Soul Train cracks me up. Harris just stands there while there's this anonymous woman groaning overhead . Seems most uncomfortable [inappropriate].


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6Fo5ObyKGOM

It doesn't help that Major's persona seems like some stuffy middle aged businessman, a horny boss with his young secretary getting it on in the back room of the office perhaps? lol!

And Soulster , you've lead me right into Donna Summer which I've wanted to mention. What is already airing in Europe that same summer LOVE MACHINE was created ? LOVE TO LOVE YOU BABY. It's increasingly the "in" thing right now.


How did all this explicitness on pop records ever get started ? Blame it on the French and
Je t'aime... moi non plus from the late sixties.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GlpDf6XX_j0

There's quite a read about it in wiki. Some highlights:



When groaning records were becoming the rage ...JUNGLE FEVER... PILLOW TALK ... this version was again released in the UK in late 1974 charting for nine weeks.

US radio broadcasters decided "no" to JE T'AIME. It didn't even reach the Top half of the Hot 100.



Exactly. ...
"Je T'aime" was also banned from UK radio but it still topped the charts.

This suggests that the record-buying public had the last word.

I'm not quite sure what that says about record buyers on either side of the Atlantic, however...... :)

[I just liked the melody of "Je T'aime", so I bought the instrumental version by Sounds Nice and avoided having to listen to all that faux sex.]

[soulster]

but wait Soulster , I need more push back !....I haven't finished presenting my case yet! :p lol!

Nope! No more pushback!:p



If someone were to tell me about the Major Harris record, where a women moans sexually all over it, and how this was thought appropriate for family radio ... and I didn't already know it to be so ...I would have said "You're kidding me..."

Well, the album version had more passionate moaning. The 45 RPM edit, which is what's presented here on the Soul Train clip cut out the worst of it near the end. But, that song did indeed get played on top 40 radio during the afternoons when kids could hear it. That's how I heard it, though I was already 12 years old in the late spring of '75.




It doesn't help that Major's persona seems like some stuffy middle aged businessman, a horny boss with his young secretary getting it on in the back room of the office perhaps? lol!

The album cover makes him look like a pimp.


And Soulster , you've lead me right into Donna Summer which I've wanted to mention. What is already airing in Europe that same summer LOVE MACHINE was created ? LOVE TO LOVE YOU BABY. It's increasingly the "in" thing right now.

Hey! It's a nice change from all the damn rapping where every other word is the n-word, that's fer sure!



How did all this explicitness on pop records ever get started ? Blame it on the French and
Je t'aime... moi non plus from the late sixties.


People wanting to push the envelope and stick it to "the establishment".


There's quite a read about it in wiki. Some highlights:



When groaning records were becoming the rage ...JUNGLE FEVER... PILLOW TALK ... this version was again released in the UK in late 1974 charting for nine weeks.

US radio broadcasters decided "no" to JE T'AIME. It didn't even reach the Top half of the Hot 100.




I never heard of the Je TiAme" here in the U.S., and top 40 radio didn't play "Jungle Fever", but man, radio went crazy playing "Pillow Talk" by Sylvia! It went straight to the top 10. It was mighty embarrassing for it to come on the radio when my mom was in the room when I was 10 years old. I knew exactly what was going on. It made Marvin Gaye's #1 "Let's Get It On" seem like a Sunday school hymn, and that one was played at jr. high dances.

[Sotosound]

People wanting to push the envelope and stick it to "the establishment".



And there I was thinking that it was done because sex sells.

[Boogiedown]

"Je T'aime" was also banned from UK radio but it still topped the charts.

This suggests that the record-buying public had the last word.

I'm not quite sure what that says about record buyers on either side of the Atlantic, however...... :)

[I just liked the melody of "Je T'aime", so I bought the instrumental version by Sounds Nice and avoided having to listen to all that faux sex.]

So #1s on the UK charts were based on sales only with no connection to airplay?

Just because the song was banned ....it was selling regardless , and very well , #2 ... so why would Fantana pull it??


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3RQ-dZ7c8w0

It's got a wah wah -ish sound to it ...

[Boogiedown]

Nope! No more pushback!:p Darn


Well, the album version [of LOVE WONT LET ME WAIT] had more passionate moaning. The 45 RPM edit, which is what's presented here on the Soul Train clip cut out the worst of it near the end. Yes and even at that, Soul Train rightfully cut it off early. But, that song did indeed get played on top 40 radio during the afternoons when kids could hear it. That's how I heard it, though I was already 12 years old in the late spring of '75. Seems wrong to be exposed to that at that age.

The album cover makes him look like a pimp. Quite a contrast from his Soul Train appearance. Neither quite hit the mark I would say.

Hey! It's a nice change from all the damn rapping where every other word is the n-word, that's fer sure!

People wanting to push the envelope and stick it to "the establishment". I think that's what's going on on LOVE MACHINE .... trying to be daring but with extreme caution. It's buried, camouflaged, after all, there's a lot to lose if it backfires. The song is 6:54 long. To make it an even two-parter each side would be 3:27 in length a perfectly acceptable time length for a single.
LOVE WON'T LET ME WAIT is 3:45 in it's reduced 45 form.

Yet , the LOVE MACHINE 45 drops out at 2:55 making it a comparatively short single for the time. It drops out exactly when all the moaning groaning action kicks in. Why go to all the trouble to create all that , the effects, the overlays, in the record only to dump it entirely and have it absent on the 45 version? We already know moaning is now the vogue. Why not let it be heard some by letting the single have a length of another thirty seconds? Was Motown or The Miracles afraid to call too much attention to their antics ?? Would it get noticed with stereo becoming the norm even in cars, what can be heard on one channel? If word got out would the song tank, would their reputation suffer?
What is the ulterior reason to fade the 45 out just at that point?? Seems intentional to me.


I never heard of the Je TiAme" here in the U.S., and top 40 radio didn't play "Jungle Fever", Soulster, it went Top 10 on Billboard's Hot 100 but man, radio went crazy playing "Pillow Talk" by Sylvia! yep It went straight to the top 10. It was mighty embarrassing for it to come on the radio when my mom was in the room when I was 10 years old. very interesting I knew exactly what was going on. It made Marvin Gaye's #1 "Let's Get It On" seem like a Sunday school hymn, and that one was played at jr. high dances. good input !

So Soulster you've gone from 100% stating 'that's a guy and a gal carrying on' , to now ....??



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DMRiHCeFF0c

[Boogiedown]

......and to move this along a little,
can anyone spot the line in the lyrics that stands out as a little odd??

[also note word correction at another point]

Lyrics



I'm just a love machine
And I won't work for nobody but you [[yeah baby)
I'm just a love machine
A huggin', kissin' fiend
I think it's high time you knew
Whenever I think of you
My mind blows a fuse [she's [incorrect the word sung is 'you'] got to use
If you look into my files
I am sure you can find out how
To turn me on just set my dial
And let me love you for a little while, wooh

I-I I'm just a love machine
And I won't work for nobody [[but you baby)
I'm just a love machine [[yeah baby)
A huggin', kissin' fiend
I'm just a love machine
And I won't work for nobody but you[[baby)
I'm just a love machine [[yeah baby)
A huggin', kissin' fiend
I'm just a love machine
I won't operate for nobody but you
I'm just a love machine [[yeah baby)
A huggin', kissin' fiend


Source: LyricFind [[https://www.lyricfind.com/)
Songwriters: Warren Moore / William Griffin

[TomatoTom123]

Gentle as a lamb? :p

[TomatoTom123]

I become so confused? :p:p

[Boogiedown]

I become so confused? :p:p


yep bingo !!:cool:

[soulster]

Seems wrong to be exposed to that at that age.



You must be under 40 or something. It was a different world in 1973. How do you think such songs got to #1? No one cared! It really was a game to see what people could get away with. And, kids were a little more sophisticated back then. We knew it was naughty, and yeah, you didn't want your mom around when the song came on the radio. But, we're also talking about a time where drug stores carried Penthouse and Hustler on the magazine racks in the drug store and they were not behind a counter. And, parents back then weren't obsessed with trying to shield kids from sex. Most buys were gonna have a nudie mag under the mattress or hidden in a closet. Seven-year-olds talked about wanting to pork school-mate Suzie. And if your mom found your dirty mag while gathering the clothes and bed sheets, and told your dad, the dad just probably laughed and said our kid is growing up!

[TomatoTom123]

yep bingo !!:cool:

Boogie, you have convinced me for sure now! :cool:

[thanxal]

You must be under 40 or something. It was a different world in 1973. How do you think such songs got to #1? No one cared! It really was a game to see what people could get away with. And, kids were a little more sophisticated back then. We knew it was naughty, and yeah, you didn't want your mom around when the song came on the radio. But, we're also talking about a time where drug stores carried Penthouse and Hustler on the magazine racks in the drug store and they were not behind a counter. And, parents back then weren't obsessed with trying to shield kids from sex. Most buys were gonna have a nudie mag under the mattress or hidden in a closet. Seven-year-olds talked about wanting to pork school-mate Suzie. And if your mom found your dirty mag while gathering the clothes and bed sheets, and told your dad, the dad just probably laughed and said our kid is growing up!
You left out Wally and the Beave. Lol!

[Boogiedown]

double post sorry

[Boogiedown]

Boogie, you have convinced me for sure now! https://soulfuldetroit.com/images/smilies/cool.png

https://soulfuldetroit.com/images/smilies/cool.png
stay tuned for the grand finale of this expose!https://soulfuldetroit.com/images/smilies/tongue.png.
Hey Tom wouldn't it be great if Billy Griffin chose to show up and spill the beans about this song ! Why not?? What's he got to lose at this point in his life ? It's actually significant Gay history, if we've got it right. And the renewed interest in it by talking about it could garner $$ for him. He's a credited author.

shall we break it down?
the line:

When I look in your eyes
My meter starts to rise, I become so confused

Keep in mind this is coming from someone boasting to be "a love machine".

A straight guy about to be "a love machine" is not confused when looking into a woman's eyes his meter rises, in fact everything is going as needed.
Now a guy [new to LA in this story line] finds looking into a guy's eyes makes his meter go twang , he might find himself 'becoming confused' by this !!

Some more to ponder:

on this clip we can see the label for the disco promo only that came out for the clubs:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aD8yueGjJ4Q

Odd word choice "THE FULL UNEDITED VERSION OF"

Most Disco 12" used words like 'Long Version' or 'Disco Version'. This one could just read "THE FULL VERSION OF" but the word unedited has been included. For starters the 45 version isn't edited in that its been sliced and diced... it just fades out at a certain point within the full version. By doing so it does seem to be editing out a certain aspect of the recording. 'Unedited' is almost another word for 'uncensored'.
Strikes me they are trying to call attention to the long version's special content for the gay clubs* especially that might then want to play it ,

*since as the Miracles say, all the bars in LA are gay ....

Unedited https://soulfuldetroit.com/images/smilies/confused.png: I cannot name another 12" pressing from Motown or any other label that uses that word. Anyone?

here's a shot of the label for the Frankie Valli 12"out at the same time:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bf3F8f2q7uQ

[TomatoTom123]

I already agreed, but now I agree even more. :cool: Excellent work Boogie. I too would like to know more about these things from those who were involved. :)

[kenneth]

"Je T'aime" was also banned from UK radio but it still topped the charts.

This suggests that the record-buying public had the last word.

I'm not quite sure what that says about record buyers on either side of the Atlantic, however...... :)

[I just liked the melody of "Je T'aime", so I bought the instrumental version by Sounds Nice and avoided having to listen to all that faux sex.]

That is the same song as the 12" by Donna Summer on the "Thank God It's Friday" soundtrack, isn't it? I never heard the original before now. I never played the 12" that came with "Friday." It seemed to just be a rehash of "Love to Love You Baby" and was much too long in my [[then) humble opinion. It made a nice package but I don't recall anyone ever playing it on the radio, though I was too young for the clubs at the time and perhaps it got some exposure there though it would have had to compete with "Last Dance" which of course was the big song from the film.

[soulster]

You left out Wally and the Beave. Lol!

Agh! I need to proofread my posts! So many errors!

[soulster]

:cool:
stay tuned for the grand finale of this expose!:p.
Hey Tom wouldn't it be great if Billy Griffin chose to show up and spill the beans about this song ! Why not?? What's he got to lose at this point in his life ? It's actually significant Gay history, if we've got it right. And the renewed interest in it by talking about it could garner $$ for him. He's a credited author.

shall we break it down?
the line:

When I look in your eyes
My meter starts to rise, I become so confused

Keep in mind this is coming from someone boasting to be "a love machine".

A straight guy about to be "a love machine" is not confused when looking into a woman's eyes his meter rises, in fact everything is going as needed.
Now a guy [new to LA in this story line] finds looking into a guy's eyes makes his meter go twang , he might find himself 'becoming confused' by this !!

Some more to ponder:

on this clip we can see the label for the disco promo only that came out for the clubs:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aD8yueGjJ4Q

Odd word choice "THE FULL UNEDITED VERSION OF"

Most Disco 12" used words like 'Long Version' or 'Disco Version'. This one could just read "THE FULL VERSION OF" but the word unedited has been included. For starters the 45 version isn't edited in that its been sliced and diced... it just fades out at a certain point within the full version. By doing so it does seem to be editing out a certain aspect of the recording. 'Unedited' is almost another word for 'uncensored'.
Strikes me they are trying to call attention to the long version's special content for the gay clubs* especially that might then want to play it ,

OK, now you really are reading more into this than there actually is. All that means is that it's the long version and not the edited single version. Geez!

[Boogiedown]

OK, now you really are reading more into this than there actually is. All that means is that it's the long version and not the edited single version. Geez!

maybe so................ and then again..... maybe no, that may not be "all that means".
Its a dog whistle.

I'm putting together the pieces for the sum total.

Can you name any other 12" of the thousands pressed in the disco era that is labeled this way??

[Boogiedown]

That is the same song as the 12" by Donna Summer on the "Thank God It's Friday" soundtrack, isn't it? I never heard the original before now. I never played the 12" that came with "Friday." It seemed to just be a rehash of "Love to Love You Baby" and was much too long in my [[then) humble opinion. It made a nice package but I don't recall anyone ever playing it on the radio, though I was too young for the clubs at the time and perhaps it got some exposure there though it would have had to compete with "Last Dance" which of course was the big song from the film.

Yes same song. I agree with your assessment , too long and too mundane. Not convincing.
A reluctant Donna Summer got cajoled into doing a cover of this as it seemed an obvious fit for her as the queen of sexual moaning. It didn't resonate and got tacked onto the THANK GOD ITS FRIDAY ST [not used in the film] as a proclaimed bonus track, an entire platter pressed for this with nothing on the flip! stuffed into the ST packaging that was then set aside by club DJs...


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O0Z3nqbPTW0


Also a part of the ohhs and ahhhs fest, The Moments with SEXY MAMA in 1974:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AI8MotW3IqA

and while this like LOVE MACHINE is absent any accompanying female responses, the lyrics and the title make it clear who's involved here.

[Boogiedown]

I have a feeling this is more the Freddie Perren preferred version as opposed to the more Billy Griffin infused one...

...still got some of the busyness in the middle but by the 4:30 its gone and Perren's arranging hits full stride and the groove shines uninfluenced by love for over three minutes.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2JYNL0Y-Hfs
also wish the strings heard here had been left in in the first part for the final version.


This an earlier version from song's developmental stage?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WR6plnsPWTU
More 'disco', less edgy





this one lays it out pretty clearly ....love to love ya baby !


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WqIkCh7kvO0

[TomatoTom123]

This an earlier version from song's developmental stage?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WR6plnsPWTU
More 'disco', less edgy

Hey Boogie, I think this might be some sort of re-recording… the backing track is quite similar but the lead vocal doesn't sound like Billy Griffin to me. :)

[reese]

Hey Boogie, I think this might be some sort of re-recording… the backing track is quite similar but the lead vocal doesn't sound like Billy Griffin to me. :)

It might be a re-recording done by a latter-day edition of the group. I know they did a remake in the 90s for Motorcity Records but I don't believe this is that one.

[Boogiedown]

Hey Boogie, I think this might be some sort of re-recording… the backing track is quite similar but the lead vocal doesn't sound like Billy Griffin to me. :)
ah ok ... good call. ..yes not Billy at all ...
here it is again :

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qZ69kZmgbio

with this info:

Provided to YouTube by The Orchard Enterprises Love Machine [[Re-Recorded) ·

The Miracles Disco Inferno ℗ 2008 Goldenlane Records
Released on: 2008-07-01

a re-recording as you and reese say. no matter as its not really relevant to the issue at hand ....just stumbled upon it :)
.


also , while I'm at it , The Moments' SEXY MAMA mentioned previously was on Stang Records one of Sylvia Robinson's many labels and she had a big hand in that single which was preceded by her own :


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=otGzq7eFxRw

[Boogiedown]

Already mentioned as the culprit in getting this whole thing started, the French with Je t'aime... moi non plus

Might've just left it there, but noooo , along come the Belgians with Jungle Fever in 1971, revving it all up again:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mp-NIC6X0GQ


wiki ---"Jungle Fever" was banned by the BBC [[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/BBC), who took exception to the song's heavy breathing and moaning

This is a wild rowdy interview by Don Cornelius especially with the touchy subject matter.
Notice Billly Griffin pointing out Pete Moore when trying to figure out who's who when it comes to what's what ....


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UfnpDYVhyQs


flirting with disaster here

[Boogiedown]

The more I delve, the more I'm finding this quite an interesting saga in the Motown story. Who would've thought the back-up group , The Miracles minus their super-leader could stage such a comeback without him [ this as Smokey himself struggles]...its almost well ...a miracle. Even Don Cornelius seems stunned by the implausibility as he says to them, '''finally got a hit!'





This is a wild rowdy interview by Don Cornelius especially with the touchy subject matter.
Notice Billly Griffin pointing out Pete Moore when trying to figure out who's who when it comes to what's what ....


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UfnpDYVhyQs




The interview starts at 2:30. The crowd is unusually chatty and Don comes on lit right away. Seems comfortable around them and wastes no time with formalities, maybe this taping takes place on a day after a night at the Playboy mansion ...
Don greets each, but notice he stops short of shaking Billy's hand and Billy calls him on it. A bit later Don takes a dig at him , saying he's amazed he had written the LP.... "I didn't know that boy could write his name!" Billy just smiles and takes it on the chin, but would love to know what he was thinking at the moment ,...I can guess....
Not sure why Ronnie feels the need to go out of his way to bring up AINT NOBODY STRAIGHT IN LA, Don wasn't going to, and the tune isn't being released as a single and they aren't working it, nor performing it that day. Maybe he felt he was in friendly company there with The Soul Train Gang being heavily populated with gay guys who would therefore be aware of their song and he wanted to connect with them about it?? This could be.
Otherwise why does he want to talk about this particular cut ...instead, for instance why not the one about smog??After all , as soulster says:

"The album is not about homosexuality. It is not front and center. Just because they put one song on it called "Ain's Nobody Straight In L.A." does not mean that it's what the album is about." ..

...yet there's Ronnie purposely bringing it up....and as Don says, just as the interview is otherwise ending.
But focusing on ANSILA doesn't go well and bringing up the tune and explaining it leads to Don jokingly accusing them of being a bunch of .... "except for me and Bill"....odd he singles out Billy as the exception to the accusation....

I've never seen anything quite like it.....on Soul train or elsewhere....


As for the LP, CITY OF ANGELS:


soulster:
About the album: it's excellent,

Do you listen to it Soulster??

How about others here? Is this LP held in high regard?? A favorite?

[TomatoTom123]

What a bizarre interview! I’ve watched several other Soul Train interviews before, none of them like that. They're normally much more, erm, professionally done…

It’s seems to me that Ronnie's main point is that it was just Billy and Pete who wrote "Ain’t Nobody Straight In LA". It’s probably an attempt at banter [LOL] implying that the songwriters are the ‘gay’ ones. Yet why bring it up at all!? [It makes things quite awkward!!]

How curious! :rolleyes:

[Boogiedown]

What a bizarre interview! I’ve watched several other Soul Train interviews before, none of them like that. They're normally much more, erm, professionally done…

It’s seems to me that Ronnie's main point is that it was just Billy and Pete who wrote "Ain’t Nobody Straight In LA". It’s probably an attempt at banter [LOL] implying that the song's writers are the ‘gay’ ones. Yet why bring it up at all!!? Very odd.

It does become quite awkward by the end! :rolleyes:

Ahhh YES, I think you've got it figured out. I couldn't understand why Ronnie White went out of his way with insisting on bringing up the song ....but watching it again, you're right I think, he wanted to make it clear that it was those two who wrote the song and he had nothing to with it. [he's so detached, he had to ask them for help in getting the title right] Good job Tom!:)


I also can't recall seeing Don being quite like this in other interviews, what's the word?, aggressive?? And I'm still trying to understand the noisiness of the crowd. I can't recall that noisiness either at other times..

Don appears most connected to Bobby Rogers. They seem to perhaps know each other well. Maybe the TWO of them were at the Playboy mansion the night before [!], Rogers is recently divorced at this time [ just having some fun here with that notion]. The ugly glasses comment is a funny one, as they are wearing the same style.



So Tom, is this a "go to" LP for you?? This dreamy romantic tune being sung to LA does it do it for you?


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XPa_XuBWRME

City of angels you have faults in your land:p
People say you'll crumble and your beauty will no longer stand:p:p
Oh I love you L.A. [[City of angels)
Please don't go away [[Please don't go away)
[[Please don't go away)
Will you fall into the sea? [[Will you fall into the sea?)
And forsake me

Will you disappear from the earth just like Atlantis did?
Each and every night I'll say a prayer for heaven to forbid
I could never live without you my salvation I would give to you
If you stay [[please stay) don't go away [[don't go away)

.... And Don doubts Billy's songwriting skills!

Billy seems more emotionally concerned about LA checking out on him than his suicidal girlfriend he supposedly followed there.:rolleyes:


Notice too the female vocal back up that was brought in and heard clearly on this song ....
so, why are they absent when it comes to LOVE MACHINE?

We gotta take a closer look at the AINT NOBODY STRAIGHT cut.... any thoughts?


And, there's an interview with Billy Griffin I've come upon, of which some of it strikes me as a bit odd concerning his recollections. I'll listen again to it before posting about it.
.

[TomatoTom123]

You’re right about Don being quite, erm, aggressive. It’s like he’s really trying to force some some of back and forth. The mention of "Ain’t Nobody Straight" really tops the whole thing off, LOL

As for the audience noise, I don’t know if it's just a technical thing [error?], but I’ve not heard it on any other Soul Train interview before either.

[TomatoTom123]

With the album itself, I'm only really familiar with "Love Machine" and "Ain’t Nobody Straight In L.A.". There was another cut that I quite liked on the LP… I think it was "Night Life". The rest of it… I have no idea, LOL.

What about you? :)

P.S. Just listened to "City Of Angels"... interesting. Quite nice, but quite different from "Love Machine". Reminds me of The Four Tops' "L.A. [My Town]", although much slower.

P.S.S. Just listened to "Night Life" and it was indeed my next favourite cut! Much more in the "Love Machine" vein and has an awesome vibes solo. And I have to say… the narrator seems to be enjoying all the L.A. night life… which is interesting, as according to "ANSIL" there "ain’t nothing but gay bars in Los Angeles…!" :p

[Boogiedown]

With the album itself, I'm only really familiar with "Love Machine" and "Ain’t Nobody Straight In L.A.". There was another cut that I quite liked on the LP… I think it was "Night Life". The rest of it… I have no idea, LOL.

What about you? :)

P.S. Just listened to "City Of Angels"... interesting. Quite nice, but quite different from "Love Machine". Reminds me of The Four Tops' "L.A. [My Town]", although much slower.

P.S.S. Just listened to "Night Life" and it was indeed my next favourite cut! Much more in the "Love Machine" vein and has an awesome vibes solo. And I have to say… the narrator seems to be enjoying all the L.A. night life… which is interesting, as according to "ANSIL" there "ain’t nothing but gay bars in Los Angeles…!" :p

I find the whole CITY OF ANGELS album worthy of a focused discussion and I was tempted to start a thread on it specifically, but its hard enough keeping up with this one, much less managing two, so lets just press forward here shall we ...

Looks like we've lost soulster's interest, oh well we'll still use his comments to further the discussion. Like his assertion that this is a great album. Is it?

Can't seem to find any defenders [?] of the CITY OF ANGELS LP as being some sort of monumental artistic masterpiece, although it at least demonstrates some sense of ambition within a group that was otherwise submerging.

So Tom, lets give NIGHTLIFE a play before we move on to the LP's major attraction but also kept hidden, the showpiece, AIN'T NOBODY STRAIGHT...

Yes it is a lot of LOVE MACHINE revisited in its arrangement and yes includes nice vibes. When I listen at 3:30 it is apparent to me that Freddie Perren was determined to not let weak lyrics get in the way of his abilities.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c7ViKqmJjZs

more from the heartbroken narrator with the suicidal girlfriend:

And you can bet that is where you'll run into the hippest chicks.
And if your intentions are to get a chick to share a lovely evening spent
There are several head shops that carry a variety of incense [aka poppers:p]

And I suspect Freddie didn't ask permission to go it alone to start the LP off:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SVgwuMReCcA

A lot of nerve using this instrumental as an opening cut on an LP by a vocal group ! Who did Freddie think he was, Norman Whitfield!:p



to chew on:
this is a conceptual album about the LA experience of the early/mid 70's, as background to those days think War, Santana, and Cheech and Chong.

Yet there is only one cut on this LA themed album that taps into the Hispanic vibe, that is latin tinged in its flavor ...that also has some Spanish phrases tossed in ... most odd that the chosen title for this element is in of all cuts: AIN'T NOBODY STRAIGHT IN LA ......why oh why .....???:confused: hmmmm

[TomatoTom123]

I agree Boogie, it’s definitely an interesting LP… possibly the only real concept album in the Miracles catalogue…?

I think I’ve listened to all of the tracks on the album at one point or another. I don’t recall being absolutely blown away, but maybe I need to sit down and listen to the whole thing in one go.

"Overture" is a cool track actually. Sounds quite like a theme song from a blaxploitation film, although a bit more ‘polished’.

As for "ANSIL", I really don’t know why the group chose to tackle homosexuality as a part of the L.A. theme, and with Latin flavours mixed in too! :p They do go about it in a strange way, almost comical [“bisexuals on a loving spree” always gets me.] But it does end on agreement that "gay people are nice people too", which is at least a positive if not particularly substantive message. LOL

[Boogiedown]

I agree Boogie, it’s definitely an interesting LP… possibly the only real concept album in the Miracles catalogue…? define "real":p

I think I’ve listened to all of the tracks on the album at one point or another. I don’t recall being absolutely blown away, but maybe I need to sit down and listen to the whole thing in one go. yes SMOG alone is worth the visit ....or is it SMOG that absolutely needs to get blown away

"Overture" is a cool track actually. Sounds quite like a theme song from a blaxploitation film, although a bit more ‘polished’. yes Tom! music for a bisexual-blacksploitation themed movie, perfect! Given how lucrative the current movie/TV soundtrack writing opportunities had become , I wouldn't be surprised if this little offering by Freddie Perren wasn't a clever way for him to audition his talents ..

As for "ANSIL", I really don’t know why the group chose to tackle homosexuality as a part of the L.A. theme, and with Latin flavours mixed in too! :p OK so why the latin tinge on this homosexual topic ?? Billy gives us the reason in his lyrics ...can you spot it??
They do go about it in a strange way, almost comical [“bisexuals on a loving spree” always gets me.] hee haw !!! But it does end on agreement that "gay people are nice people too", yes nice, or then again other times not , just witness some behavior on the DRATS forum !! which is at least a positive if not particularly substantive message. LOL for such a bold record and it REALLY WAS , it actually says very little ....

We have to listen to the dreamy and wistful SMOG :


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-BBMLu8hXxY

I wish the smog would drift awayyyy ,....to stayyy!

LYRICS for AINT NOBODY :





Ain't nobody straight in L.A
It seems that everybody is gay
Homosexuality is a part of society
I guess that they need some more variety
Freedom of expression is really the thing

Bisexuales es un grupo amoroso
Bisexuals on a loving spree

Homosexuality is a part of society
Well, I guess that they need some more variety
Freedom of expression is really the thing

Ain't nobody straight in L.A
[[Ain't nobody in L.A. straight)
It seems that everybody is gay
Oooh oooh, oooh oooh,
Oooh, oooh, oooh, oooh

"Hey, man, check that out."
Ain't nobody straight in L.A
It seems that everybody is gay

"Hey, man, let's ride out"
"Yeah c'mon, man!"
"I mean that's cool with me, uh, where we gon' go?"
"Hey, man, I know where a real hip place is on Sunset Boulevard and there's another place on La Cienega that's really..."
"Nah, nah, I saw that place on Hollywood Boulevard..."
"Hey, wait a minute, wait a minute, Bill, that place you took me the other night..."
"Yeah?"
"Hey, but wait a minute, man, that's a gay bar"
"Hey, man, ain't nothing but gay bars in Los Angeles"
"Yeah, Bill, that might be true though, but, uh... You know some of the finest women are in the gay bar"
"Hey, but dig, Bob, how do you know they women?"
"Well... uh... Hey, man, look, well, look, gay people are nice people too, man"
"Yeah, let's go, man. Let's go, man"

https://www.rockol.com/uk/lyrics-94767242/the-miracles-aint-nobody-straight-in-la

[TomatoTom123]

Ha! Well Boogie, I guess the group's 1969 album What Love Has… Joined Together was a concept album of sorts… featuring six famous love songs quite distinctly reimagined!!!

I just listened to "Smog"… uhhhh… not a massive fan. I find the song itself quite dreary :p. It does have an interesting and worthwhile message though!! And, a very early mention of electric cars in the lyrics!

I can’t figure out why there are Latin flavours are in ANSIL, other than for stylistic reasons. :D [is it something to do with "bisexuales es un grupo amoroso"?]

P.S. I'd watch a Miracles-soundtracked bisexual-blaxploitation themed movie. LOL

[marybrewster]

My conclusion:
Absolutely Yes.

But I'll let you ponder it over before I make my case.

For starters, listen throughout but especially starting @ 5:10 thru 5:50:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hfgq4HMdMdg

Sounds delightful to me. Nothing wrong with a little Masc 4 Masc action.

[Boogiedown]

Sounds delightful to me. Nothing wrong with a little Masc 4 Masc action.



MB, thanks for bringing the link to the song of focus forward !!

How do you think the Masc 4 Masc action would have been received if Motown had let it be included on the released 45??

[Boogiedown]

Hi Tom I didn't forget you ! Or this topic! ... sorry for the delay, it just got issued to the back burner for a bit. There's still plenty to discuss!!:p .... if you're game ....



Ha! Well Boogie, I guess the group's 1969 album What Love Has… Joined Together was a concept album of sorts… featuring six famous love songs quite distinctly reimagined!!!
ah , ok
I just listened to "Smog"… uhhhh… not a massive fan. I find the song itself quite dreary :p. and likely written in under ten minutes ...It does have an interesting and worthwhile message though!! And, a very early mention of electric cars in the lyrics!
Ha, true and proof you actually did listen !!:cool:
I can’t figure out why there are Latin flavours are in ANSIL, other than for stylistic reasons. :D Yes, a song with latin flavoring could've held up very well completely on its own as part of this LA concept, and it should've been its own featured cut on the LP, but - it gets used instead only within the gay themed song ....
so, in Billy's lyrics you'll find the line "I guess they need some variety" ....what do you make of that?? Lets see if we agree...

P.S. I'd watch a Miracles-soundtracked bisexual-blaxploitation themed movie. hee haw LOL

OK, there's something more here about this entire narrative, when we back up a bit, and read about The Miracles in wikipedia ....it is asserted that the group interviewed extensively before deciding on Smokey's replacement ...


After auditioning some 60 hopefuls,[2] [[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Renaissance_[[The_Miracles_album)#cite_note-2) the group decided on Billy Griffin [[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Billy_Griffin), a native of Baltimore [[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Baltimore), Maryland [[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maryland). In the 2006 Miracles DVD release [I]The Definitive Performances [[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Definitive_Performances_)[[1963-1987), Miracles Pete Moore & Bobby Rogers, commented that the group decided on Billy because, in addition to being a great singer, he also demonstrated "some writing ability"



But this doesn't play out. Billy Griffin has no prior writing history. Once he joins the group he doesn't write even one cut for any of the first three albums by them. Three albums and not one song. Their first album with Griffin singing, called RENAISSANCE, was a mish-mash of a variety of production and writing. Freddy Perren then takes charge for the second album, still a writing mish-mash of tunes from various sources, and they have a hit with the title cut, DO IT BABY, which was written by Perren and his wife.
Then something weird happens, bolstered I guess by the moderate success of DO IT BABY, Perren and HIS WIFE write the entirety of the third album featuring Griffin's leads, which then is a complete bomb. Titled DONCHA LOVE IT , I guess no one did, and the album is not even written about in wiki.

Next comes album four, the CITY OF ANGELS album where Freddie, and the now vanished wife, go from writing everything to writing none of the songs, and Griffin and Moore suddenly write everything, but! Perren is still around and produces all of them [due to contract obligations?], giving these lame songs some credence by the embellishment of his arrangement skills.


What do I make of this?....hmmmm...

[TomatoTom123]

Oh Boogie, you’re like a goldmine of new Miracles info! :cool: I don’t know what to make of that at all. Perhaps Billy didn’t feel confident in his writing abilities until album number 4. :p

It’s interesting that one of the first things Billy wrote was "Ain't Nobody Straight In L.A.". I wonder if Billy was [is] LGBT himself, or had some personal connection to the cause?

[TomatoTom123]

Also, I’m not sure what to make of the line "I guess that they need some more variety"… other than it makes me laugh… like it’s some sort of sex pick ‘n’ mix ! :p

[Boogiedown]

Oh Boogie, you’re like a goldmine of new Miracles info! :cool: I don’t know what to make of that at all. Perhaps Billy didn’t feel confident in his writing abilities until album number 4. :p

It’s interesting that one of the first things Billy wrote was "Ain't Nobody Straight In L.A.". I wonder if Billy was [is] LGBT himself, or had some personal connection to the cause?
Maybe he was [is] 'Q' :rolleyes:.
Yes , that is interesting Tom that AIN'T NOBODY STRAIGHT is a chosen topic for his first round of compositions. From writing nothing from maybe not ' feeling confident' as you suggest, to straight for the jugular.

There's more. Soon after Billy comes on board, Marv Tarplin , a Miracle from day one in '58, and one of the group's most important members when it came to compositions, bales. His writing credits are included on: TRACKS OF MY TEARS, GOING TO A GO GO etc. as well as Marvin Gayes AIN'T THAT PECULIAR and the Tops STILL WATERS as examples.
Tarplin didn't leave because he was tired of the music business. He stayed linked with Smokey Robinson for years thereafter, and is credited with helping Smokey compose songs such as CRUISIN' and BEING WITH YOU and toured and recorded with him until 2008.

To make things wackier, The Miracles didn't audition any where near 60 applicants to replace Tarplin and his relevant guitar work. Maybe not even any. [?] They simply brought in Billy's brother [!!], whose first professional credit as a performer in discogs is his playing on the LA themed album. In a couple more years, when the Miracles shift to Columbia Records, brother Donald , will also emerge as a sudden songwriter for the Miracles albums.


Tarplin's guitar heard as the introduction and throughout, crucial to the song's sound:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rNS6D4hSQdA

[TomatoTom123]

I’ve tried to find out more about Billy online, but couldn’t find much. I just find it striking that among his very first compositions is a homage to homosexuality! :p

Interesting about his brother being brought on! I didn’t know that. Maybe he truly had a musical gift unparalleled by all others!!! I'm not too familiar with their post-Motown work… I think I saw a CD with their two Columbia LPs on it that I clearly need to buy! :D

[Boogiedown]

I’ve tried to find out more about Billy online, but couldn’t find much. I just find it striking that among his very first compositions is a homage to homosexuality! :p
I agree 100 %, quite striking.

Interesting about his brother being brought on! I didn’t know that. Maybe he truly had a musical gift unparalleled by all others!!! I'm not too familiar with their post-Motown work… I think I saw a CD with their two Columbia LPs on it that I clearly need to buy! :D

Ah my friend Tom, OK this'll take us deeper yet, and at this rate, we may never find our way back to the top! Oh well, what the heck... what have we got better to do .....:p

So, some more on Billy Griffin .....here's an interview from Oct 4, 2017 , lots of good stuff, but also with lots that’s MISSING and not talked about, but the part that most caught my attention begins at 44:55, listen to this New Year's Eve tale of his and tell me how it strikes you!!!!:)


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bMv-OECBYSA

hmmmm....:rolleyes:

[TomatoTom123]

Well Boogie, he seems very proud of "Love Machine"! I guess that's because he both wrote and sung it… :D

I’d like to hear Tom Jones' rock the house with "Ain’t Nobody Straight In L.A.", LOL

[MIKEW-UK]

In Billy Griffin's own words..... scroll down to podcast

https://p-c-r-l.blogspot.com/2012/07/bill-randle-pcrl-interviews.html

[MIKEW-UK]

Billy Griffin's interview with David Nathan

https://archive.ph/20130411205208/http://www.soulmusic.com/index.asp?S=1&T=38&ART=2635

[Boogiedown]

thanks for additional reference material !


Billy Griffin's interview with David Nathan

https://archive.ph/20130411205208/http://www.soulmusic.com/index.asp?S=1&T=38&ART=2635


nice long article .... ....much bolstering about how clever and innovative and successful CITY OF ANGELS was ...with no mention specifically of the AINT NOBODY STRAIGHT cut.....and of course absent was the question we all want the answer to:
ARE TWO GUYS GETTING IT ON ON LOVE MACHINE!!!

but then this was a promo piece for the reissuing of the failed Columbia releases

and there's always little snippets of interests of which to weave into this exploration:


Billy: Well, Pete was trying - I think at that time being that he was ten years older than me - he was trying to keep the reins on me as far as lyrically. Because I wanted to really stretch out. I wanted to do things that people hadn’t written about before. He said, ‘You know, we’re still The Miracles. We still have a reputation.

how? a AINT NOBODY STRAIGHT Part Two??? The interviewer fails to ask Griffin what are the topics he's wanting to stretch out with ...


Billy: Yeah, the whole concept album was biographical. Autobiographical, because I come from a town – I’ve been in England quite a bit. So, let’s say I came from Manchester to London. So, you can imagine the difference in culture between those two places, maybe even during that time period. London is such a big flashy city and Manchester is a blue collar town. It was like that for me, leaving Baltimore, Maryland, which is a port city, but a real blue collar town, with really rigid strict moral way of life. Then you go to this town that’s kind of like ten years into the future of every city in America. in what way? Whatever is happening in Los Angeles, it’s like a decade before it’s going to happen anywhere else in the country. So, just getting on the plane, David, to go to Lost Angeles at that time, the stewardesses were wearing hot pants!I imagine they were already wearing the hot pants when he got on the plane in Baltimore . :pI’m coming from working at the Baltimore Gas and Electric company in Baltimore as a junior accountant and I’m flying to Hollywood with stewardesses wearing hot pants! Maybe he means male stewardesses:p:p I was like, man, what an introduction to a new life. Not sure what it was about LA that it made it ten years ahead that wowed him ....what he writes about in CITY OF ANGELS is smog and earthquakes... oh and homosexuality
:p
David: What a really…truly truly truly, [truly WHAT David?? spit it out ] what an introduction! hee haw !

Billy: Then, when we get to Los Angeles - and I’ll let you move on to the next question - but the second thing that struck me was the gay community. As soon as you get off the plane, ??? you see it for the first time coming from a blue collar town where in the 1970’s being gay was kind of squashed or hidden or in the closet. [guess he never went to NYC? , about a two hour train ride from Baltimore] Out there it’s prevalent, in fact they have their own part of Los Angeles called ‘Boys Town.’ Not in the 70s that is a much later term that Billy's aware of. It’s just something that hit me apparently!!:p... you're still talking about it as a writer because, like I said I’m an author in addition to being a composer, I said one day, ‘I’m going to write about this.’

And how did he write about it?? A song about how cool it was and how much fun the gay bars were, so much so that in the song AINT NOBODY STRAIGHTIN LA he drags his Miracles co-members to them !!! [recall in the Soultrain Interview , Ronnie White going out of his way to disavow having anything to to with that song]



David: So, tell us something. Obviously I know from looking at the credits, as everyone else will do if they haven’t already purchased it will see, you and Pete wrote I think the entire album if I’m correct, LOVE CRAZY. Also, your brother Donald was involved and actually is pictured on the cover of the album. You know he had been with the Miracles as a guitarist I think for a few years before that, correct?

well, they got the impression that songwriting was easy...actually it is, writing hits is where the challenge is ...


my brother Donald was part of The Miracle Workers, which was the band that used to accompany us. So, when I would introduce the band, introduce The Miracles, when I would introduce Ronnie and Bobby and Pete, of course we would get a very rousing applause for them, but when I would introduce my brother [Donald], the young girls would go crazy, and it was embarrassing. It was really embarrassing. So Pete said, ‘You know what, man? Maybe we need to bring Donald into the group?’ I said, ‘I agree with you. He needs to be a part of the group. We’ll stretch our demographic’ - because Donald was five years younger than me, so he had that young vibe, that Jimi Hendrix vibe

this is interesting .... the brother was keeping the group relevant to a younger female audience ...and apparently not Billy himself as well....or at least he doesn't claim that.



Billy: Well, we were leaving Motown at that time, as we already referenced, and we owed Motown an album. So, we actually had to sit down and write two albums. THE POWER OF MUSIC and LOVE CRAZY. That were right behind each other. They just came out right behind each other. In fact, Motown just kind of like threw THE POWER OF MUSIC up against the wall and said, ‘if it sticks, it sticks.’ It didn’t really count if it did anything, but still we had to deliver an album. So, I was writing feverishly like night and day to try to have at least thirty six songs to pick twenty-four from. So, we picked the songs for THE POWER OF MUSIC and then we picked the songs that were more ‘love crazy-oriented’ for LOVE CRAZY, like all forms of love that you could have. uh-huh!:pYou have “Love Crazy,” which kind of like tells you what the album’s going to be about, and then you get to “Love to Make Love”, which is very sexual, and then there’s a song called “Too Young” about a guy digging on a young girl. Then you have “Gossip” which is about people not having love for you and the antithesis of it, and then you have “Spy for the Brotherhood”, which is about a love for brotherhood, a love for your fellow man. I think there’s another one on there called “We’ve Got to Find a Better Way to Live”

Very telling as to the quality found/not found on the last Motown record and the first one for Columbia.... imagine writing two albums [and expecting quality] at once and in the context of crunch time ....



Billy: Right. I at that time was dating, or wanted to date, a Teenage Miss America or something. I think we had met, I’m not making this story up

I'm including this comment , because it seems he's concerned of being accused of making a story up, suggesting he perhaps has a way of spinning tales a certain way ... New Year's Eve for instance? ...who says a disclaimer like that...usually those that have a reputation for embellishing??


and to be perfectly honest, Pete was kind of like my dad or my older brother in the group and I didn’t enjoy that same kind of relationship with Bobby and Ronnie. I sang with them, they were my compadres, but we just didn’t have that kind of understanding with each other

there was a disconnect/ a split within the group that I think showed on that Soultrain appearance.


I had intended on staying and performing with The Miracles, writing another Miracles album, and then doing what I wanted to do. Which was like “Hold Me Tighter in the Rain” and that kind of stuff,
.....So when Pete Moore wanted out, Billy wanted to do a solo album then as well and still "write" and perform for The Miracles and to that they said, "See, ya!!"


So, that marked the end of The Miracles....and Billy did his HOLD ME song............four years later.

[....and I won't comment on Billy's bragging about writing a racist song ....]

[TomatoTom123]

LOL Boogie, your comments make for some great reading. :p Billy seems surprised by the presence of the gay community in L.A… kinda comes across like he’d not met many LGBT+ people before… not sure what to make of that…!