San Remo Golden Strings

[reachoutuk]

Three years ago Keith Hughes asked a question in the MU68 thread about whether anyone would be interested in buying music by SRGS. It is nice to see the imminent release of “All Turned On” which will contain a track by them.


My question is this, and apologies if it sounds rather basic. I know that SRGS issued two albums – “Hungry For Love” and “Swing”, however, I have come across three other albums not mentioned on DFMC which were issued on the Marble Arch label in the UK:

MAL 641 San Remo Strings “Summertime In Venice” [[1966)

MAL 642 San Remo Strings “The Sound of Romance” [[1966)
MAL 654 San Remo Golden Strings “Around The World” [[1967)

These seem to have been released just ahead of the two Gordy albums.

Marble Arch also released two Motown-related albums, the Isley Brothers “Take Time Out With the Isley Brothers” [[based on “Twist and Shout”) and “The Early Show” with Tammi Terrell and Chuck Jackson which dated from their Wand days.

Can anyone confirm if these three SRGS albums are by the same musicians please and if there is any background information on them? As an afterthought, I did find two or three tracks on YouTube which don’t seems to have been released as far as I can find out at the moment.

[snakepit]

My gut feeling would be that it is NOT the Ric Ric set up.
See this link to the LP Venice

https://www.discogs.com/release/5934152-The-San-Remo-Strings-Summertime-In-Venice

[paul_nixon]

My gut feeling would be that it is NOT the Ric Ric set up.
See this link to the LP Venice

https://www.discogs.com/release/5934152-The-San-Remo-Strings-Summertime-In-Venice

Those are instrumental MOR elevator muzak releases not contacted with the RT - Mot relelases at all

[snakepit]

Ed Wingate alledgedly named the San Remo Strings after a visit with his wife to Italy. Perhaps he saw this San Remo MOR and 'appropriated' the name on Ric Tic releases?

[nsoule]

Does anyone know why the world "Golden" was removed from the name San Remo Golden Strings on UK Tamla-Motown releases? The first thing I noticed with those Marble Arch releases was that it was the San Remo Strings and not the San Remo Golden Strings, but it looks like all or at least most the UK releases of the Detroit San Remo Golden Strings material changes the name.

US release:
https://www.discogs.com/release/5143662-San-Remo-Golden-Strings-The-San-Remo-Golden-Strings-Swing

UK release:
https://www.discogs.com/release/3257708-San-Remo-Strings-The-San-Remo-Strings-Swing

[reachoutuk]

Those are instrumental MOR elevator muzak releases not contacted with the RT - Mot relelases at all

HI Paul,
Thank you for your reply and the confirmation that they are two different groups of musicians. It has saved me some money which I can use for future Ace releases and possibly Cellarful Volume 6 [[?)

[reachoutuk]

My gut feeling would be that it is NOT the Ric Ric set up.
See this link to the LP Venice

https://www.discogs.com/release/5934152-The-San-Remo-Strings-Summertime-In-Venice

Thanks "snakepit". Discogs have grouped the different artists under the same heading, both with and without the "Golden" part of the name. The track listing on the Marble Arch LPs did seem very different from the track titles of the Motown albums. But due to the overlapping of the artist names and a similarity in dates of release, I couldn't make up my mind without some expert assistance. So thank you for your reply.

[snakepit]

Thanks "snakepit". Discogs have grouped the different artists under the same heading, both with and without the "Golden" part of the name. The track listing on the Marble Arch LPs did seem very different from the track titles of the Motown albums. But due to the overlapping of the artist names and a similarity in dates of release, I couldn't make up my mind without some expert assistance. So thank you for your reply.

pleasure....as I say , Ed Wingate got the idea from a visit to Italy

[reachoutuk]

Does anyone know why the world "Golden" was removed from the name San Remo Golden Strings on UK Tamla-Motown releases? The first thing I noticed with those Marble Arch releases was that it was the San Remo Strings and not the San Remo Golden Strings, but it looks like all or at least most the UK releases of the Detroit San Remo Golden Strings material changes the name.

US release:
https://www.discogs.com/release/5143662-San-Remo-Golden-Strings-The-San-Remo-Golden-Strings-Swing

UK release:
https://www.discogs.com/release/3257708-San-Remo-Strings-The-San-Remo-Strings-Swing

Hi "nsoule". Good question! This is also the reason why I was confused over who the artists were for these various releases. In fact, Discogs list the Marble Arch LP "Around the World" as by the San Remo Golden Strings, even though the cover only states San Remo Strings. So when I was sorting through the Detroit group's releases, I noticed that there was a similar difference between the American and British names.

As the Italian artists appear to pre-date the Motown artists, then the Marble Arch issues came first and used the name San Remo Strings. As "snakepit" has suggested, the name could have been appropriated for the Motown musicians but with the accolade 'Golden" added. According to the 45cat website, the British releases came out four years later. In addition, Belgium, Ireland and the Netherlands also used the British shorter version.

[snakepit]

Taken from the Golden World Tour on this very web site

John Rhys recalls that the name San Remo came about as a result of a vacation taken by Ed and JoAnne to the town of the same name.

[TomBairdFan]

The San Remo Strings are right up there as one of my Motown favorites! I've never been convinced that the musicians are moonlighting Funk Brothers, as the Ric Tic recordings and instrumentation are so different from the 'Motown Sound'. The drummer in particular produces licks that I've never heard from the Snakepit.

19585
19586

[bradburger]

The drummer on a lot of those tracks credited to SRGS was the one and only George McGregor.

Cheers

Paul

[TomatoTom123]

So these are two different groups with the same name who existed at the exact same time!!!

I love the San Remo Strings' tracks and would love to get Hungry For Love and Swing on CD/download. :D

[Roger Polhill]

The "Hungry For Love" albums Ric-Tic and Gordy differ slightly in that Van McCoy`s "Somethings You Never Get Used To" appears on the former and it is replaced by "Festival Time" on the Gordy outing.

[reachoutuk]

So these are two different groups with the same name who existed at the exact same time!!!

I love the San Remo Strings' tracks and would love to get Hungry For Love and Swing on CD/download. :D

Actually, I feel it goes a little further than just those coincidences. On the Marble Arch LPs, there are some versions of well-known tracks: Till There Was You, Catch A Falling Star and I Believe. On the Gordy albums, there are versions of Downtown, Blueberry Hill, Everybody Loves A Lover, It's Not Unusual and Born Free to name a few. Maybe I had a reason to feel confused!

The Marginal Records CD of 1998 pulls together both Hungry For Love and Swing, plus three other tracks, one of which does not appear to be listed on DFMC. I'll summarise my list of additional tracks on a follow-up post shortly.

[reachoutuk]

Taken from the Golden World Tour on this very web site

John Rhys recalls that the name San Remo came about as a result of a vacation taken by Ed and JoAnne to the town of the same name.

Thank you - you prompted my remaining brain cell, and I checked my copy of The Complete Motown Singles 1967 which includes Festival Time and Joy Road, together with a write-up about the musicians. It also confirms your statement about the origin of the group's name - I promise, I never once doubted your word!!

[reachoutuk]

Tracks by the San Remo Golden Strings in addition to those released on the two Gordy albums:

Hungry For Love - on Tamla Motown Big Hits Vol.4
Sunny - on Motown Unreleased 1967
Get Ready - on Cellarful of Motown Vol.3
Fuerte Amor - on Motown Unreleased 1968
All Turned On - on Marginal Records CD
Quando Sei Bella [[You Are So Beautiful) - on Marginal Records CD
Still Hungry - on Marginal Records CD - not listed on DFMC

Finally I found these two tracks on YouTube:

Detroit Theme - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eMnKL9JVZhE

Shades Down - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8xTqNKWj_JA

The latter seems to have an interesting back story. The YouTube image shows that it is Shades Down by the San Remo Golden Strings on Ric-Tic RT 138, however, Discogs shows an image of RT 138 as being Shades Down by the Detroit Emeralds. Does anyone know if there is a connection between them?

[reachoutuk]

Forgot to mention, there are also four tracks on Ric-Tic Relics Vol.1:

Hungry For Love
I'm Satisfied
Festival Time
International Love Theme

And on Ric-Tic Relics Vol.2:

Joy Road
Quanto Sei Bella [[You Are So Beautiful)

Plus on Complete Motown Singles Vol.7 1967:

Festival Time
Joy Road

[Roger Polhill]

I think that the vocal side by the Detroit Emeralds is "Ode To Billy Joe" and the other side is often an instrumental version in this case "Shades Down"

[reachoutuk]

I think that the vocal side by the Detroit Emeralds is "Ode To Billy Joe" and the other side is often an instrumental version in this case "Shades Down"

Hi Roger, that was a very prompt reply thank you. After a little more research on the 45cat website, you are correct that the A-Side is Ode To Billy Joe. The B-Side, for both the Promo and the commercial releases, names the group as the Detroit Emeralds and the track has been uploaded, with the comment "Shades Down is an instrumental .. very similar to those issued on Ric-Tic by The San Remo Strings":

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Oj1s-aiFts8&t=9s

After comparing images of the two promo versions, they have the same duration and the same matrix number, and so it appears that in this instance, the Detroit Emeralds were in fact the San Remo Golden Strings. The Detroit Emeralds version states:
Produced by A. Kent and E. Wingate.

The SRGS version states:
Kent, Toney - the latter name is difficult to read
Arranged by Gil Askey

[snakepit]

Hi Reachoutuk
" Shades Down" has no Direct connection to the Detroit Emeralds.
The Ric Tic instrsumentals are session players, and used as B sides to the A vocal.....but often credited to the vocal. i.e the A side group are not involved directly with the B.
e.g. " You've got to pay the price" was for years credited to Al Kent because Al was the vocal artist on tbe A side.
Actually the guitarist is Dennid Coffee with sesion men who would be used on San Remo tracks.
" Shades Down " is Ric Tic session men.....Detroit Emeralds are the vocal to the A
Similarly Agent double O Soul and Back Street B sides are session men .....Maybe credited to Edwin Starr .
Record Labels often put an instrumental on a B side. Why Ric Tic didn't use a Detroit Emeralds track is a mystery. And why they didn't issue Shades Down as a SRGS track...who knows?But these things happened a lot.
LAs Mirwood label did similar things.

[reachoutuk]

Hi Reachoutuk
" Shades Down" has no Direct connection to the Detroit Emeralds.
The Ric Tic instrsumentals are session players, and used as B sides to the A vocal.....but often credited to the vocal. i.e the A side group are not involved directly with the B.
e.g. " You've got to pay the price" was for years credited to Al Kent because Al was the vocal artist on tbe A side.
Actually the guitarist is Dennid Coffee with sesion men who would be used on San Remo tracks.
" Shades Down " is Ric Tic session men.....Detroit Emeralds are the vocal to the A
Similarly Agent double O Soul and Back Street B sides are session men .....Maybe credited to Edwin Starr .
Record Labels often put an instrumental on a B side. Why Ric Tic didn't use a Detroit Emeralds track is a mystery. And why they didn't issue Shades Down as a SRGS track...who knows?But these things happened a lot.
LAs Mirwood label did similar things.

Hi Snakepit,
Yes, I have come across that before with a certain Mr. Spector doing the same with the Ronettes and the Crystals. There was also something similar with a pre-fame solo Cher release plus one or two early Sonny and Cher releases.

[snakepit]

Just think,
It could have been "Festival Time" or "Joy Road" used as the B to Ric Tic 138....
"Festival Time" by the Detroit Emeralds!!
I guess it was something to do with royalties etc

[144man]

I always assumed that the San Remo Strings were the Detroit Symphony Orchestra. Was my assumption wrong?

[snakepit]

No...members of the DSO were contracted by Motown, Ric Tic and others to play on tracks requiring strings.
For example young Dayna Hartwick [[16 I think) played the Flute on the intro to "Reach Out I'll be there"....her first session I believe. Several DSO players were brought in. They would supplement the session rythym players, Funk Bros and other Detroit players....

[snakepit]

The DSO leader was Gordon Staples. He led the DSO players on Motown/ Detroit sessions.
When I visted Hitsville, there was a room dedicated to musicians. As we walked around we engaged in conversation 3 "Senior" Ladies. One of the " Golden Girls" asked me if I had heard of Gordon Staples. I told her I had.
She then told me that she had been HIS music teacher!!

[grapevine]

...I like both versions of Lonely One


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CmyxOY6aKg0

...and the faster version


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J0qstNK7-pY

Grape :)

[reachoutuk]

...and the faster version


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J0qstNK7-pY

Grape :)[/QUOTE]

That's curious, I wasn't aware of this longer version. TMG 512 was allocated to Shorty Long's Out To Get You which dates from 1964, whereas the other two Tamla Motown releases for SRGS came out in 1971 and 72 with much later catalogue numbers. Does anyone know if this was released as a commercial disc rather than a promo? And what could be on the flip side? I've quickly zoomed through YouTube looking for a companion green label but haven't found one yet. It's not listed on Discogs or 45cat.

[snakepit]

Does this vinyl exist?
I'm guessing it's a mock-up.for the Youtube entry.
This is made for the Northern Soul market..sped up for dancers....the 45 makes it look legit.
Can't see it being real....and nothing to do with the TMG series of the 60s.

[Roger Polhill]

Thanks Grape I wasn`t aware of the fast version is it different or just sped up? It certainly isn`t the genuine article with that cat. #.

[grapevine]

Does this vinyl exist?


...goodness knows Snake ...just found it on my surfing travels...!

Grape :)

[snakepit]

Hi Grape
Great sound all the same

[Peter G]

A further 2 titles that were released on vinyl in the UK:

All Turned On - Motown Memories [[16 Non-Stop Tamla Hits) [[Tamla Motown STML 11200)
I'm Satisfied - Motown Disco Classics - Vol 2 [[16 Non-Stop Tamla Hits) [[Tamla Motown STMA 8005)

There was a 3rd volume in this series but I do not have the track listing to hand. Presume they changed the title of the series for Vol 2 to avoid confusion with the earlier Motown Memories - Vols 1-3

[144man]

Was "Crying Over You" by The Kaddo Strings {Impact 1005} the same session men?
It certainly sounds like the San Remo Strings.

[144man]

Laura Lee's "To Win Your Heart"[Ric Tic 111] was the vocal version of "Festival Time" [Ric Tic 112], and the Reflections' Tony Michaels vocals were added to "Hungry For Love" and released on Golden World GW 41 as "I Love The Life I Live [And Live The Life I Love]".
Were any other San Remo Strings tracks released as vocals with different titles?

[snakepit]

Was "Crying Over You" by The Kaddo Strings {Impact 1005} the same session men?
It certainly sounds like the San Remo Strings.

I would think it's a fair chance. Similarly, Duke Browner's "Crying over you ..instl." and others.

[reachoutuk]

Just been listening to Festival Time and All Turned On on the new Ace CD. Lovely sound as always - if only the tracks could have been longer. Sigh! I will have to listen to my Marginal Records CD until one day I hope that the SRGS get their just desserts and a proper anthology.

Thank you everyone at Ace for producing yet another superb collection of overlooked music.