Is Why Do Fools Fall in Love a good single?

[Spreadinglove21]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WPO46xvT0Xk

So how do you all really feel about Diana's first RCA single release, her cover of Why do Fools Fall in Love? it was a top ten hit. It's a good song, This version certainly has plenty of hooks and ear worms. But I find the production and music chintzy and hasn't aged well, like her Motown output of the 60s and 70s.

I also think I understand why it was her first single on RCA. It was the beginning of next stage of her career. Frankie Lymon and the Teenagers were a big influence on her as a teen so I think maybe doing this song was an homage to the music that got her started singing and performing in the first place.

[lucky2012]

This was quite a surprise. 90 degree, if not 180 degree, turn! I liked it even if I was uncertain how it would fare. When it was played at a party, not long after it was released, it got a rousing response from my friends and other party-goers. I knew then it would do well. This was not just an R&B crowd.

I agree with why you understand it was her first RCA single. It was a bold gamble, for sure. I now see, decades later, that she was expanding her reach as a global pop icon at RCA. Admittedly, the results were decidedly mixed and only sporadically stellar. Still, as someone pointed out in another thread
Originally posted by Jobeterob: What she had to do was morph into the iconic artist that lasted forever - and it seems like she has done that.

[Bluebrock]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WPO46xvT0Xk

So how do you all really feel about Diana's first RCA single release, her cover of Why do Fools Fall in Love? it was a top ten hit. It's a good song, This version certainly has plenty of hooks and ear worms. But I find the production and music chintzy and hasn't aged well, like her Motown output of the 60s and 70s.

I also think I understand why it was her first single on RCA. It was the beginning of next stage of her career. Frankie Lymon and the Teenagers were a big influence on her as a teen so I think maybe doing this song was an homage to the music that got her started singing and performing in the first place.

It's a great song, and her version could have been pretty good had the production not being of such a karaoke standard. That awful introduction was probably the most inept i have ever heard on a Diana Ross record. It sounded like a 10 year old kid was on production duties. I just wish Quincy Jones had overseen the project. Ms Ross did it on a budget. I understand that. She wanted to keep costs down and increase revenue, and to that end it was a rip roaring success, but from an artistic point of view it was an unmitigated disaster.

[Boogiedown]

its harmless fun. bright and bouncy.

the kind of song that isn't going to get you first place in a karaoke competition but won't get you booed off either.

I'd rank it with Linda Ronstadt's HEATWAVE ... how can you go wrong with covering that song ....
but in the end , so what ....

[Ollie9]

My gran liked it......Nuff said!.......Definitely not :cool:

[after you]

This is a dream song it’s fun as a water slide

[after you]

I love this song so much it’s every thing fun

[Ollie9]

Now if we were discussing “Why [[Must We Fall In Love)”, that’s a praise worthy performance. . “Why Do Fools”....nah. A crowd pleaser for the casual Joe.

[PeaceNHarmony]

Of course! A hit and a big concert favorite to this day.

[JohnnyB]

Absolutely! It is one of Diana’s biggest selling solo singles and was very well-received at the time of its release. I remember seeing Diana in concert in early 1982, just as Mirror, Mirror debuted as the follow up. WDFFIL got such a huge response she reprised it twice, keeping the audience up on their feet. Definitely a good choice…

[Ollie9]

As regards a crowd pleaser WDFFIL was probably a wise decision. She could have released a version of “Dancing Queen” and it would have scored in 81. It all comes down to musical integrity. It’s a long way from “Upside Down” To 50’s retreads, and i really
can’t imagine another time when that song would have sold so well.
By the time of “So Close” she was already losing the momentum she had generated with the sparkling “Boss” And “diana” sets.
Wrong direction imo.

[Levi Stubbs Tears]

Dreadful decision to release a lame cover version as the first single of her 'new independent career'. Of all the songs on that album, 'Mirror Mirror' should have been the first single, if something even better couldn't have been found.

Would not have been a big hit if it hadn't ridden on the coat-tails of the Chic singles & Endless Love.

[florence]

Love it!

One of my top 10 Diana singles [[even if it is at #10!)

It's just a great slice of pop - upbeat, bouncy and high-spirited and perfect for her debut single. It made me feel good.

It was tailor-made for UK radio - I would hear it on the Radio 1 Breakfast Show and go to work with a smile on my face.

It was the video with Diana dancing in the Las Vegas Streets which really made the record go BIG in the UK - one of her top 5 biggest selling singles here and it was #1 in both The Netherlands and Belgium.

I love it just as it is.

[Deepdishus2001]

We can debate artistic merits but it really didn’t ride the coattails of the The Boss or Diana 80. If it was just that, the single would have risen and dropped quickly.

It stayed in the Billboard Top Pop 40 for 14 weeks. The Boss spent 9 weeks, Upside Down-17 weeks, I’m Coming Out-14 weeks, It’s My Turn-15 weeks, Endless Love-19 weeks. It was a big hit and the general public clearly did enjoy it. Also, Mirror Mirror, in my opinion, stands up to anything in her first or second Motown stints. Great track and great performance. It was played a lot on NYC radio when it was released.

[Levi Stubbs Tears]

WDFFIL had one benefit that most of Diana's most recent [[and superior) singles didn't have. A music video. Something that helped its' chart performance and chart longevity, especially outside the US.

The one thing that was a positive of the RCA era was music videos for most singles.

I can only imagine how much more successful songs like Upside Down or I'm Coming Out would have been with the benefit of the same.

[Nitro2015]

I do think it's a great single. Not innovative or groundbreaking, but really enjoyable, bright, and very radio-friendly. It was a worldwide hit and Diana seems to like it. It's one of the few 80's songs she still performs to this day.


It's a cover of a 50's song but it fitted early 80's radio formats perfectly. And, if we look closely, it started a trend: many 80's smash hits were cover songs or new songs inspired by the late '50s and '60s. Wham!, Phill Collins and many others did the same thing Diana started in 1981. Sometimes I think Diana does not get the credit she deserves. She was a visionary with her WDFFIL in 1981.


For me, it stood well the test of time.

[Sotosound]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WPO46xvT0Xk

So how do you all really feel about Diana's first RCA single release, her cover of Why do Fools Fall in Love? it was a top ten hit. It's a good song, This version certainly has plenty of hooks and ear worms. But I find the production and music chintzy and hasn't aged well, like her Motown output of the 60s and 70s.

I also think I understand why it was her first single on RCA. It was the beginning of next stage of her career. Frankie Lymon and the Teenagers were a big influence on her as a teen so I think maybe doing this song was an homage to the music that got her started singing and performing in the first place.
This certainly wasn't what I expected after the Chic album or any of the Michael Masser ballads that came out sounding like old, previously unreleased recordings.

Instead, it's a great and well-known melody, well-arranged, well-played, well-performed, and well-produced. All in all, a great track with an optimistic and bouncy feel to brighten up one's day.

As a first single with RCA - Capitol in the UK - I can't really fault it, as it was just so sunny and fresh.

It doesn't move pop music or soul music forward in any big way, but I doubt that it was meant to.

Put simply, a great little pop record.

That's a "Yes!" from me, by the way. :)

[JohnnyB]

We can debate artistic merits but it really didn’t ride the coattails of the The Boss or Diana 80. If it was just that, the single would have risen and dropped quickly.

It stayed in the Billboard Top Pop 40 for 14 weeks. The Boss spent 9 weeks, Upside Down-17 weeks, I’m Coming Out-14 weeks, It’s My Turn-15 weeks, Endless Love-19 weeks. It was a big hit and the general public clearly did enjoy it. Also, Mirror Mirror, in my opinion, stands up to anything in her first or second Motown stints. Great track and great performance. It was played a lot on NYC radio when it was released.

Thanks for providing these chart statistics. While the momentum of her previous hits got WDFFIL airplay, that momentum did not lead to record sales. The public obviously enjoyed the record and responded with their wallets.

[SatansBlues]

Why Do Fools Fall In Love came out about a month after I purchased my very first album by the Supremes and is the first 45 that I ever bought. I loved it the first time that I heard it. To me it was a throwback to her earlier days with the Supremes. I never tire of hearing it when it's played or when she sings it in concert. The song sits nicely in her songbook. My parents bought me the album for my birthday in October and I still have it and its still one of my favorite albums by her.

[PeaceNHarmony]

Why Do Fools Fall In Love came out about a month after I purchased my very first album by the Supremes and is the first 45 that I ever bought. I loved it the first time that I heard it. To me it was a throwback to her earlier days with the Supremes. I never tire of hearing it when it's played or when she sings it in concert. The song sits nicely in her songbook. My parents bought me the album for my birthday in October and I still have it and its still one of my favorite albums by her.What wonderful memories for you, SB! Thanks for sharing. I hope you and your family are well.

[RanRan79]

Horrible version of this great song. The most karaoke sounding song she's ever recorded, until a few of the I Love You cuts. I've made my displeasure of "Pieces Of Ice" well known in the forum. I think I can actually say I'd rather listen to "Ice" than "Fools". The execution is almost horrible. Diana sounds weak and the track matches it. I would've gone with "Mirror" as the first single if I only have what we have released to go on. But I do think "Fools" had the potential to be a good move. Had Diana decided to go with a funky track, one where she could really sink her teeth into the lyrics, the song could've been killer. This pop fluff sucks.

But it did put money in her account. And there's apparently people who are quite fond of it. As mentioned in the "Nothing But Heartaches" thread, chart position does not preclude a song from being good. I'll offer "Fools" as an example of the same thing on the other side of the coin. Hit status and seller does not equate good music. But I'm glad somebody likes it. Me? There are a number of other Diana RCA tunes that I fondly play.

[RanRan79]

I do think it's a great single. Not innovative or groundbreaking, but really enjoyable, bright, and very radio-friendly. It was a worldwide hit and Diana seems to like it. It's one of the few 80's songs she still performs to this day.


It's a cover of a 50's song but it fitted early 80's radio formats perfectly. And, if we look closely, it started a trend: many 80's smash hits were cover songs or new songs inspired by the late '50s and '60s. Wham!, Phill Collins and many others did the same thing Diana started in 1981. Sometimes I think Diana does not get the credit she deserves. She was a visionary with her WDFFIL in 1981.


For me, it stood well the test of time.

I don't know if I would give Diana credit for the start of that "trend". That was the nature of music. All throughout the 50s and 60s artists were covering popular tunes of the 30s and 40s. And then the 60s and 70s crowd were covering popular tunes of the 50s and 60s. Disco has a number of disco-fied 50s and 60s tunes. The 80s wouldn't have been any different without Diana covering "Fools".

[Nitro2015]

I don't know if I would give Diana credit for the start of that "trend". That was the nature of music. All throughout the 50s and 60s artists were covering popular tunes of the 30s and 40s. And then the 60s and 70s crowd were covering popular tunes of the 50s and 60s. Disco has a number of disco-fied 50s and 60s tunes. The 80s wouldn't have been any different without Diana covering "Fools".

I have the impression pop music as we know today really started in the 1960s... I think the 1980s was the first decade in pop music that retro songs started to score big.

In the 1960s or 1970s artists could cover songs from previous decades, but it wasn't really a pop music trend or a commercial trick.

Probably you do have a point, Diana wasn't the sole reason for the 80's trend of retro songs with a contemporary feel dominating radio but she was one of the first, if not the first, superstar to do it. And it was a bold and controversial move in her career.

[Boogiedown]

interesting the added cheering on the video version at the end ....


what does Diana say at the very end ? "hey , keep that"....?

I'm only now noticing this same bouncy rhythm sound on WHY DO FOOLS as others from about that same period ... that was first [?] started by WHAT A FOOL BELIEVES


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bi_WayqBVYg


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dJe1iUuAW4M

was there a term for this style??

[Ollie9]

Horrible version of this great song. The most karaoke sounding song she's ever recorded, until a few of the I Love You cuts. I've made my displeasure of "Pieces Of Ice" well known in the forum. I think I can actually say I'd rather listen to "Ice" than "Fools". The execution is almost horrible. Diana sounds weak and the track matches it. I would've gone with "Mirror" as the first single if I only have what we have released to go on. But I do think "Fools" had the potential to be a good move. Had Diana decided to go with a funky track, one where she could really sink her teeth into the lyrics, the song could've been killer. This pop fluff sucks.

But it did put money in her account. And there's apparently people who are quite fond of it. As mentioned in the "Nothing But Heartaches" thread, chart position does not preclude a song from being good. I'll offer "Fools" as an example of the same thing on the other side of the coin. Hit status and seller does not equate good music. But I'm glad somebody likes it. Me? There are a number of other Diana RCA tunes that I fondly play.

Agree 100% Ran. I guess like “I Will Survive”, it’s a song peeps are familiar with. It will always make for a good singalong no matter what. I had assumed when she was handed creative control by rca that she was really going to spread her musical wings. Instead we got a sickly 50’s retread...Hmmm.

[Deepdishus2001]

Thanks for providing these chart statistics. While the momentum of her previous hits got WDFFIL airplay, that momentum did not lead to record sales. The public obviously enjoyed the record and responded with their wallets.

You’re welcome. It was just to provide some clarity. The single was a big hit and the album went platinum plus. Again, artistic merit can always be debated. As they say one person’s trash is another’s treasure. There just seems to be a lot of attempts to correct or disparage each other’s opinions here sometimes.

[after you]

Horrible my —— it’s a great song and only a true Diana Ross hater would spew such venom why even talk to crazy this is a great song one can always tell who the haters are enjoy your hated day with a little bit of Arthritis lol

[jim aka jtigre99]

I think Diana Ross did a credible job on the song. Remember the times, we were just a few years away from the 70's where there was a revival of the 50's with shows like Happy Days and movie like Grease. Both Diana Ross and Mary Wilson cited Frankie Lymon as an influence, Wilson pantomimed to their song I am not a Juvenille Delinquent when she met Florence at a talent show. Why wouldn't Miss Ross want to pay homage to a major influence on her? I much prefer Mirror, Mirror as a single which had a lot more weight and contemporary sound but taking in the times, I can see why she chose it. It certainly was very pleasant and much better than some of her RCA releases. Enjoyable.

[Levi Stubbs Tears]

only a true Diana Ross hater would spew such venom .... enjoy your hated day with a little bit of Arthritis lol

Wow.... 'Spreadin' Love'...

[Sotosound]

Wow.... 'Spreadin' Love'...
Lol. Agreed.

There's a great old Bo Diddley song called "Who Do You Love?" but, happily, I've not come across one called "Who Do You Hate?", which is a sentiment that I can't empathise with.

One post here could also do with a touch of Victor Borge's 'Phonetic punctuation'. :)

Also, all this thread is about really is whether or not members like a song. Not really a reason to get nasty with anyone.

[Levi Stubbs Tears]

Lol. Agreed.

Also, all this post is about really is whether or not members like a song. Not really a reason to get nasty with anyone.

Agreed.

Also, I only just noticed the OP is called 'spreadinglove' lol

[RanRan79]

I think Diana Ross did a credible job on the song. Remember the times, we were just a few years away from the 70's where there was a revival of the 50's with shows like Happy Days and movie like Grease. Both Diana Ross and Mary Wilson cited Frankie Lymon as an influence, Wilson pantomimed to their song I am not a Juvenille Delinquent when she met Florence at a talent show. Why wouldn't Miss Ross want to pay homage to a major influence on her? I much prefer Mirror, Mirror as a single which had a lot more weight and contemporary sound but taking in the times, I can see why she chose it. It certainly was very pleasant and much better than some of her RCA releases. Enjoyable.

The idea of Ross starting off the next phase of her career with a 50s throwback was a bit genius IMO. It's the execution that bugs me. "Fools" was an important part of her early music love. Previously I've offered in the forum the opinion that "There Goes My Baby" would've made an even better single than "Fools", but either one, being important to the Ross story, makes sense.

Diana has a reputation by some for being a weak singer, which is ridiculous if one really pays attention to her recorded as well as live work. She has a thin voice, which people erroneously equate with weakness. This song did her no favors in that regard. It's almost a different singer from The Boss to diana80 to "Fools". I just can't stand it. But in the end can one argue against it too hard, considering the fact that it was a big hit and it's still- apparently- a crowd pleaser? This just isn't the Diana Ross I particular prefer.

[Ollie9]

I just can't stand it. But in the end can one argue against it too hard, considering the fact that it was a big hit and it's still- apparently- a crowd pleaser? This just isn't the Diana Ross I particular prefer.

Nicely put. As with you, it’s not the Diana i prefer, but if there are folks who enjoy it then all is good and well. The song certainly possesses the marmite factor. :)

[RanRan79]

Also, all this post is about really is whether or not members like a song. Not really a reason to get nasty with anyone.

The unhinged will find any reason to get nasty. The block button comes in handy and I utilized it on that particular screename [[as well as it's more senior status alter ego) as soon as it became apparent that it's job in the forum was to disrupt, not bring forth healthy discussions on the subject of music as it relates to the Supremes and it's members.

[reese]

The idea of Ross starting off the next phase of her career with a 50s throwback was a bit genius IMO. It's the execution that bugs me. "Fools" was an important part of her early music love. Previously I've offered in the forum the opinion that "There Goes My Baby" would've made an even better single than "Fools", but either one, being important to the Ross story, makes sense.

I never thought of Diana's THERE GOES MY BABY as any more than a decent album track. But I think an updated rendition, similar to what Donna Summer did with it, might have been nice to hear.

Re FOOLS, I wasn't knocked out by it upon first listen but I ended up liking it. It is a nice rendition and was a nice way to start off the RCA era.

[RanRan79]

I never thought of Diana's THERE GOES MY BABY as any more than a decent album track. But I think an updated rendition, similar to what Donna Summer did with it, might have been nice to hear.

Re FOOLS, I wasn't knocked out by it upon first listen but I ended up liking it. It is a nice rendition and was a nice way to start off the RCA era.

Regarding "There Goes My Baby", I wasn't referring to the version Diana eventually cut. As much as I like the version on RHRAB, I think Diana's "Fools" is a better choice of single. I think if Diana had cut "There Goes" in 1981 she could've made a hit out of it had she funked it up.

Four On the Floor did this in 1979. I don't suggest that Diana do a knock off of this, but just an idea of making the song up tempo and kind of funky. I think it would've worked.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=84jRTPWgd5E

[jobeterob]

It wasn't one of my favorites and I often skip it when it's playing.

But it is monster concert favorite to this day.

It was a big hit.

It's a nice enough song, did well, I'm sure she's very happy with it all.

[TheMotownManiac]

I don’t care for WDFFIL, but it was an international hit, so, yes it was “good” but if I never heard it again, I’d be just fine.

[after you]

It’s not really about any one getting nasty it’s about the nasty trashing her music and it’s always the same ones so who’s nasty cheers and enjoy life

[Roberta75]

I loved WDFFIL cause it was such a real happy song and a great video. Just fun fun fun IMO. I still like it when Diana does it in her concerts.

[TheMotownManiac]

I loved WDFFIL cause it was such a real happy song and a great video. Just fun fun fun IMO. I still like it when Diana does it in her concerts.

it DOES seem to enjoy a bouncy fun reception in her shows, I’m glad you and so many others love it. I think I might have received better had my expectations for some thing more like her previous recent hits not been so strong.

[TheMotownManiac]

Dreadful decision to release a lame cover version as the first single of her 'new independent career'. Of all the songs on that album, 'Mirror Mirror' should have been the first single, if something even better couldn't have been found.

Would not have been a big hit if it hadn't ridden on the coat-tails of the Chic singles & Endless Love.

I have to disagree with you. I was disappointed in this record when it came out and I still don’t care for it, but it doesn’t make me cringe. I don’t think it was riding the coattails of anything because the public responded strongly with record sales. Songs that road coattails are in and out of love which rose quickly and dropped immediately, ditto I’m living in shame. Those songs received a lot of AirPlay because of the coattails, but the public did not respond with purchases in kind. Why do you fools did very well in the sales department. Surprisingly well. By the 80s, Radiohead a lot more information at their fingertips to gauge which songs to continue to play. Work that body, was a gigantic disappointment after that long string of hits. Folks weren’t buying it.

[florence]

Whatever your opinion of WDFFIL's artistic merit - and we can respect each other's opinion - the bottom line was the public loved it and in fact still do.

Interestingly in two countries in which Diana didn't have a prolific chart career, Germany and [[perhaps surprisingly) Australia Fools was one of those records which did go top 20.

[Ollie9]

Work that body, was a gigantic disappointment after that long string of hits. Folks weren’t buying it.

The UK adored “Work That Body reaching number #7 on the pop charts. It did a lot better here then “Mirror Mirror” with the Uk never really embracing that rock sound.
I remember it being all over the airwaves in 82, also making the top ten in Ireland.
It was the cloying “So Close” that brought the string of hits to an abrupt end.

[Jaap]

Whatever your opinion of WDFFIL's artistic merit - and we can respect each other's opinion - the bottom line was the public loved it and in fact still do.

Interestingly in two countries in which Diana didn't have a prolific chart career, Germany and [[perhaps surprisingly) Australia Fools was one of those records which did go top 20.

And in the Netherlands, Why Do Fools Fall In Love is her first and only #1 [[not counting "A Brand New Day" which was also a #1 here). The song was very popular at the time, yet nowadays you never hear it on the radio anymore, while other Ross songs are played regularly [[including the new single "Thank You"). I loved WDFFIL when it came out [[also because of the very joyful music video), but in retrospect I find it too MOR/Adult contemporary, particularly indeed when comparing it to The Boss and diana, which really re-established Ross as a major recording star.

[Bluebrock]

Whatever your opinion of WDFFIL's artistic merit - and we can respect each other's opinion - the bottom line was the public loved it and in fact still do.

Interestingly in two countries in which Diana didn't have a prolific chart career, Germany and [[perhaps surprisingly) Australia Fools was one of those records which did go top 20.

Not sure that is still the case Florence. I have not heard Fools on the radio for over 20 years. It is true to say Ms Ross still loves to perform it and will no doubt continue to do so, but i don't think the general public yearn to hear it unlike some of her classic hits which continue to be played regularly. It has not aged well in my opinion.
However we will continue to be treated to it along with the equally awful i will survive simply because Ms Ross loves to sing those songs, and they are easy songs for her to perform. It doesn't matter if us long term fans yearn for something different. The only changes to her live set will be 2 or 3 songs from the new album. Of course she will add a couple of UK favourites for the tour next year, but don't expect many if any "surprises" that we all would love to hear

[RanRan79]

I have to disagree with you. I was disappointed in this record when it came out and I still don’t care for it, but it doesn’t make me cringe. I don’t think it was riding the coattails of anything because the public responded strongly with record sales. Songs that road coattails are in and out of love which rose quickly and dropped immediately, ditto I’m living in shame. Those songs received a lot of AirPlay because of the coattails, but the public did not respond with purchases in kind. Why do you fools did very well in the sales department. Surprisingly well. By the 80s, Radiohead a lot more information at their fingertips to gauge which songs to continue to play. Work that body, was a gigantic disappointment after that long string of hits. Folks weren’t buying it.

I'm not so sure about that. Cash Box, which tallied it's positions based on sales, ranked "Fools" at #7, "Shame" at #8 and "In and Out" at #10. Additionally, for "Fools" to have been some big seller in the US, I can find no gold or platinum certification. The album went platinum but it appears the single failed to hit gold status. Of course, as has happened in the Diana Ross discography a few times, the song may have sold exceptionally well in other parts of the world. I don't know exactly how songs ride on the coattails of the ones before it, so I'm not arguing that point. I just don't see much evidence that supports the claim that people ran out and bought "Fools" in some dramatic fashion, compared to some others. I would also offer that "Fools" isn't any more present in the conscious of the general public​ than either "Shame" or "In and Out".

[Boogiedown]

I was wondering what the competition was on the Top 40 at the time: It was still a pretty good period for Top 40 , some big records, big names :



CASH BOX TOP 100 SINGLES
November 28, 1981


1 PHYSICAL--- OLIVIA NEWTON -JOHN [[MCA -51182) 1 9
2 PRIVATE EYES ---DARYL HALL & JOHN OATES [[RCA PB -12296) 2 14
3 WAITING FOR A GIRL LIKE YOU--- FOREIGNER [[Atlantic 3868) 4 8
4 ARTHUR'S THEME [[BEST THAT YOU CAN DO)--- CHRISTOPHER CROSS [[Warner Bros. WBS 49787) 3 16
5 HERE I AM--- AIR SUPPLY [[Arista AS 0626) 7 11
6 START ME UP--- ROLLING STONES [[Rolling Stones/Atlantic RS 21003) 5 15
7 OH NO--- COMMODORES [[Motown M 1527F) 8 11
8 EVERY LITTLE THING SHE DOES IS MAGIC ---THE POLICE [[A&M 2371) 9 10
9 YOUNG TURKS ---ROD STEWART [[Warner Bros. WBS 49843) 15 7
10 WHY DO FOOLS FALL IN LOVE?---DIANA ROSS [[RCA PB -12349)


RCA was doing pretty good : Besides Diana Ross:
Two H&O records in the Top 40, #2 and I CAN"T GO FOR THAT racing up at #22, Rick Springfield their current hot property at #12, and a surprise hit, HOOKED ON CLASSICS entering the Top 40 at #33 , and Ronnie Milsap at #39.


Added:

The Four Tops are also on here #14 --- WHEN SHE WAS MY GIRL
Rick James now drops off with SUPERFREAK

and ENDLESS LOVE is still on the Top 40 @ #38 , just now falling from last week's position of #6

......so yes i think some coat-tailing here is a fair observation

[144man]

The idea of Ross starting off the next phase of her career with a 50s throwback was a bit genius IMO. It's the execution that bugs me. "Fools" was an important part of her early music love. Previously I've offered in the forum the opinion that "There Goes My Baby" would've made an even better single than "Fools", but either one, being important to the Ross story, makes sense.

Diana has a reputation by some for being a weak singer, which is ridiculous if one really pays attention to her recorded as well as live work. She has a thin voice, which people erroneously equate with weakness. This song did her no favors in that regard. It's almost a different singer from The Boss to diana80 to "Fools". I just can't stand it. But in the end can one argue against it too hard, considering the fact that it was a big hit and it's still- apparently- a crowd pleaser? This just isn't the Diana Ross I particular prefer.

On the one hand, I agree that the idea of Diana Ross starting the next phase of her career with a 50s throwback was a bit genius.
On the other hand, I could argue that it was just taking the easy way out.

[144man]

Horrible my —— it’s a great song and only a true Diana Ross hater would spew such venom why even talk to crazy this is a great song one can always tell who the haters are enjoy your hated day with a little bit of Arthritis lol

You really must learn to improve your insults.
Your remark wasn't addressed to me, but I, for one, am proud of every arthritic bone in my body.
What on earth do they teach you in school in Canada?

[jobeterob]

You really must learn to improve your insults.
Your remark wasn't addressed to me, but I, for one, am proud of every arthritic bone in my body.
What on earth do they teach you in school in Canada?

Canada? Cannot be! Um, should not be.

[after you]

There was no insults directed at anyone in bunch your panties people come on here and say oh that’s such a horrible song I can’t stand it it’s Karaoke when all your doing is insulting Miss Ross you don’t think her family knows about this site think again be kind and kind will be to you ❤️[🩹 it is never my intention to divide one Doesn't have to use the words hate and horrible there no need for it

[Sotosound]

There was no insults directed at anyone in bunch your panties people come on here and say oh that’s such a horrible song I can’t stand it it’s Karaoke when all your doing is insulting Miss Ross you don’t think her family knows about this site think again be kind and kind will be to you ❤️[啕 it is never my intention to divide one Doesn't have to use the words hate and horrible there no need for it

Actually, all anyone is doing is sharing their opinion of a 1981 single by Diana Ross.

Given that most people in the world didn't buy it, there will be some who like it, some who don't like it, and billions who have probably never heard it.

Also, some people will think that releasing it was a good move, and others will think that it wasn't a good move.

How people express their views will vary from person to person, but all they are doing is expressing their views about a 1981 single, since that is what this thread is about.

[detmotownguy]

Ouch Blue; an unmitigated disaster lol! I first heard WDFFIL in an office building lobby environment and was def a "feel good pick me up" song. I also think it has the same effect on the radio. Per Wiki: It reached #15 in the United States [[#4 R&B), #17 in the United Kingdom and the top ten in Sweden, Norway and the Netherlands. But yeah, the production needed a bit more attention.

I wonder what Berry thought, if anything, about her immediate success after leaving Motown.

[sansradio]

Ouch Blue; an unmitigated disaster lol! I first heard WDFFIL in an office building lobby environment and was def a "feel good pick me up" song. I also think it has the same effect on the radio. Per Wiki: It reached #15 in the United States [[#4 R&B), #17 in the United Kingdom and the top ten in Sweden, Norway and the Netherlands. But yeah, the production needed a bit more attention.

I wonder what Berry thought, if anything, about her immediate success after leaving Motown.



Diana's WDFFIL reached #7 pop US.

[144man]

There was no insults directed at anyone in bunch your panties people come on here and say oh that’s such a horrible song I can’t stand it it’s Karaoke when all your doing is insulting Miss Ross you don’t think her family knows about this site think again be kind and kind will be to you ❤️[�� it is never my intention to divide one Doesn't have to use the words hate and horrible there no need for it

I've said this before and will no doubt have to say it again, but this is a forum, not an appreciation society.
The dictionary defines a forum as a ..."place for public discussion...giving opportunity for debate". Consequently different points of view should be encouraged. This could cause problems for very young members who have formed their opinions through social media, as they tend to gravitate to groups with similar world-views and therefore may not be able to grasp the concept of dissent.
However forums have existed for several thousand years as a conduit for reasoned arguments, so no one is going to hold back on firmly held views just to avoid hurting the feelings of someone with an opposing view.
On the whole, members get on reasonably well with each other as long as they concentrate on the arguments themselves and do not let things become personal.

[Bluebrock]

Ouch Blue; an unmitigated disaster lol! I first heard WDFFIL in an office building lobby environment and was def a "feel good pick me up" song. I also think it has the same effect on the radio. Per Wiki: It reached #15 in the United States [[#4 R&B), #17 in the United Kingdom and the top ten in Sweden, Norway and the Netherlands. But yeah, the production needed a bit more attention.

I wonder what Berry thought, if anything, about her immediate success after leaving Motown.



I seem to recall it went to no.4 in the UK. I still find that hard to believe, but it evidently held great appeal to the UK pop crowd. 7" singles were still very much a big deal over in the UK at that time.
My main criticism of the record is the woeful standard of production. I actually like the song itself. I loved the original version, and i do believe Ms Ross's version could have been a good one had more time and care been taken in the recording process, but i do not lay the blame soley at her door. She wanted Quincy to produce the album, and Quincy wanted to produce the album, but RCA understandably wanted a quick return on their major investment and demanded an album at short notice. As i have previously stated there was a delay in finishing Patti Austin's superlative Every Home Should Have One album, which Quincy was producing. Patti Austin herself told me this. She felt awful about this and insisted upon providing backing vocals for a few Ross tracks at a fraction of her normal fee.
Ms Ross did her best at short notice, but was quite simply out of her depth. It took her a while to realise this, and by the time she did her relationship with RCA was already terminally damaged. I could say more but i shall leave it at that.
Hope you are feeling better. Drop me a line when you fancy a catch up. Take care.

[detmotownguy]

I seem to recall it went to no.4 in the UK. I still find that hard to believe, but it evidently held great appeal to the UK pop crowd. 7" singles were still very much a big deal over in the UK at that time.
My main criticism of the record is the woeful standard of production. I actually like the song itself. I loved the original version, and i do believe Ms Ross's version could have been a good one had more time and care been taken in the recording process, but i do not lay the blame soley at her door. She wanted Quincy to produce the album, and Quincy wanted to produce the album, but RCA understandably wanted a quick return on their major investment and demanded an album at short notice. As i have previously stated there was a delay in finishing Patti Austin's superlative Every Home Should Have One album, which Quincy was producing. Patti Austin herself told me this. She felt awful about this and insisted upon providing backing vocals for a few Ross tracks at a fraction of her normal fee.
Ms Ross did her best at short notice, but was quite simply out of her depth. It took her a while to realise this, and by the time she did her relationship with RCA was already terminally damaged. I could say more but i shall leave it at that.
Hope you are feeling better. Drop me a line when you fancy a catch up. Take care.

Any idea how much more time was needed to wait for Quincy? Sounds like RCA was a bit short-sighted by wanting a quick ROI in lieu of a super quality project. I guess enuf said - Will try to catch up tonight.

[Ollie9]

I've said this before and will no doubt have to say it again, but this is a forum, not an appreciation society.
The dictionary defines a forum as a ..."place for public discussion...giving opportunity for debate". Consequently different points of view should be encouraged. This could cause problems for very young members who have formed their opinions through social media, as they tend to gravitate to groups with similar world-views and therefore may not be able to grasp the concept of dissent.
However forums have existed for several thousand years as a conduit for reasoned arguments, so no one is going to hold back on firmly held views just to avoid hurting the feelings of someone with an opposing view.
On the whole, members get on reasonably well with each other as long as they concentrate on the arguments themselves and do not let things become personal.

Eloquently stated.

[TheMotownManiac]

I'm not so sure about that. Cash Box, which tallied it's positions based on sales, ranked "Fools" at #7, "Shame" at #8 and "In and Out" at #10. Additionally, for "Fools" to have been some big seller in the US, I can find no gold or platinum certification. The album went platinum but it appears the single failed to hit gold status. Of course, as has happened in the Diana Ross discography a few times, the song may have sold exceptionally well in other parts of the world. I don't know exactly how songs ride on the coattails of the ones before it, so I'm not arguing that point. I just don't see much evidence that supports the claim that people ran out and bought "Fools" in some dramatic fashion, compared to some others. I would also offer that "Fools" isn't any more present in the conscious of the general public​ than either "Shame" or "In and Out".

highest chart position is certainly a strong barometer of level of success, but it is Often not the whole story.

in and out of love rocketed into the top ten on the coattails of Reflections. It got its Reflections boost, couldn’t sustain, and died a quickie.

In And Out *65, *47, *29, *13, *9, 9, 12, 21 8 weeks

Ditto

Shame. *47, *22, *15, 11, 10, 12, 21, 29 8 weeks

* Bullet

A month or so is all that’s needed to see if a record is strong on its own merits. in the 60’s, Herman’s Hermits and Gary Lewis both usually shot up fast and died quickly. For our purposes:

‘Fools launches on the strength of her recent mammoth success, but the public responded and sustained it into a very successful record with legs.
Fools is white hot longer than the total chart life of the others.
Fools total chart life is 150% longer
Fools’ fade is very indicative of a strong record. Even its fade is longer than the chart life of the other two.

Fools. @56, @38, @28, @21, @14, @12, @10, @9, @8, @7, 7, 7, 15, 25, 27, 42, 79, 75, 96, 99 20 weeks

@White Hot Bullet [[strongest surge)
* Bullet

[Deepdishus2001]

I seem to recall it went to no.4 in the UK. I still find that hard to believe, but it evidently held great appeal to the UK pop crowd. 7" singles were still very much a big deal over in the UK at that time.
My main criticism of the record is the woeful standard of production. I actually like the song itself. I loved the original version, and i do believe Ms Ross's version could have been a good one had more time and care been taken in the recording process, but i do not lay the blame soley at her door. She wanted Quincy to produce the album, and Quincy wanted to produce the album, but RCA understandably wanted a quick return on their major investment and demanded an album at short notice. As i have previously stated there was a delay in finishing Patti Austin's superlative Every Home Should Have One album, which Quincy was producing. Patti Austin herself told me this. She felt awful about this and insisted upon providing backing vocals for a few Ross tracks at a fraction of her normal fee.
Ms Ross did her best at short notice, but was quite simply out of her depth. It took her a while to realise this, and by the time she did her relationship with RCA was already terminally damaged. I could say more but i shall leave it at that.
Hope you are feeling better. Drop me a line when you fancy a catch up. Take care.

Bluebrock, thank you so much for restating what happened. RCA bungled it from the get go and is largely responsible for the loss on their investment. Did they even recommend another producer to helm her label debut? They were thinking short term and screwed themselves.

[Levi Stubbs Tears]

there was a delay in finishing Patti Austin's superlative Every Home Should Have One album, which Quincy was producing.

If only Miss Ross had said 'I insist on waiting for Quincy, but in the meantime, how about I cut a single of WDFFIL for release.'

I would be much more appreciative of the single if there was a reason like this behind it.

[Bluebrock]

Any idea how much more time was needed to wait for Quincy? Sounds like RCA was a bit short-sighted by wanting a quick ROI in lieu of a super quality project. I guess enuf said - Will try to catch up tonight.
I was told between 3-4 months which back then was a long time when you consider how regularly artists released new albums back then.

[Bluebrock]

If only Miss Ross had said 'I insist on waiting for Quincy, but in the meantime, how about I cut a single of WDFFIL for release.'

I would be much more appreciative of the single if there was a reason like this behind it.
Can i be your producer? Together we could make such sweet music. Lol......

[Bluebrock]

Bluebrock, thank you so much for restating what happened. RCA bungled it from the get go and is largely responsible for the loss on their investment. Did they even recommend another producer to helm her label debut? They were thinking short term and screwed themselves.
I suspect they did put forward their own ideas for a suitable producer, but i honestly do not know who they had in mind.

[Levi Stubbs Tears]

Can i be your producer? Together we could make such sweet music. Lol......

lol - we do seem to agree quite a bit. Great minds and all that ;)

[Ollie9]

I suspect they did put forward their own ideas for a suitable producer, but i honestly do not know who they had in mind.

In your own personal opinion Mr B, would you say she received support and guidance from the record company but refused to listen, or was she pretty much left to her own devices?. I’m guessing the former, but would be interested to know your thoughts.

[rovereab]

I think WDFFIL was a great choice for a single. It was nice to have something that, along with the video, presented a fun and upbeat side to Diana Ross to herald a new start on RCA.

[Circa 1824]

Of all the great oldies to re-record, she chose Why Do Fools Fall In Love and Sweet Nothings ??????

[Bluebrock]

In your own personal opinion Mr B, would you say she received support and guidance from the record company but refused to listen, or was she pretty much left to her own devices?. I’m guessing the former, but would be interested to know your thoughts.

I would say without hesitation she was offered support and guidance from the record company but she refused to listen. She was very headstrong back then, and firmly believed her own hype. She thought she could do it without any outside interference.
Of course history eventually proved she could not. I did not envy those rca executives back then, despite their many shortcomings.

[Circa 1824]

RCA had a $15 million dollar investment on their hands who was delusional. I can only imagine how many nights sleep were lost and executive careers ruined.

[Ollie9]

I would say without hesitation she was offered support and guidance from the record company but she refused to listen. She was very headstrong back then, and firmly believed her own hype. She thought she could do it without any outside interference.
Of course history eventually proved she could not. I did not envy those rca executives back then, despite their many shortcomings.

Many thanks. I had assumed this was the case, but it’s always good to hear an informed opinion.

[Spreadinglove21]

I guess RCA wanted to get Diana Ross product out there given the amount of money they spent to sign her, and due to her recent string of big hits. Strike while the iron is hot. But one can argue that she wasn't a newly minted star where there is a true need to get a new song and album to maintain the momentum of a new star. Diana Ross was established. Would the public have forgotten her if more time had been taken to produce her RCA debut? I don't think so.

[TheMotownManiac]

I guess RCA wanted to get Diana Ross product out there given the amount of money they spent to sign her, and due to her recent string of big hits. Strike while the iron is hot. But one can argue that she wasn't a newly minted star where there is a true need to get a new song and album to maintain the momentum of a new star. Diana Ross was established. Would the public have forgotten her if more time had been taken to produce her RCA debut? I don't think so.


I once, by happenstance, was in TKTS line with an RCA exec in Times Square. He shuttered at the mere mention of her name. He’s the one who told me about them refusing the Central Park album and that’s why there are only 6 rca albums. Her contract was for one per year, but didn’t specify that RCA could dictate content, so They had to accept it, but could refused to release it. He said that they would have re-signed her if she was more cooperative, but both sides couldn’t wait for the contract to end.

[Ollie9]

I once, by happenstance, was in TKTS line with an RCA exec in Times Square. He shuttered at the mere mention of her name. He’s the one who told me about them refusing the Central Park album and that’s why there are only 6 rca albums. Her contract was for one per year, but didn’t specify that RCA could dictate content, so They had to accept it, but could refused to release it. He said that they would have re-signed her if she was more cooperative, but both sides couldn’t wait for the contract to end.

I really enjoy reading such recollections. It provides extra insight into what is surely a very complex character. I’m sure she must have been a complete nightmare to work during that period, but It certainly doesn't stop me being any less of a fan.

[Jaap]

I once, by happenstance, was in TKTS line with an RCA exec in Times Square. He shuttered at the mere mention of her name. He’s the one who told me about them refusing the Central Park album and that’s why there are only 6 rca albums. Her contract was for one per year, but didn’t specify that RCA could dictate content, so They had to accept it, but could refused to release it. He said that they would have re-signed her if she was more cooperative, but both sides couldn’t wait for the contract to end.

Such a shame RCA did not released the Central Park live album. I'm sure with some editing it could have been turned into a solid album [[probably better than the Greatest Hits Live). At least we now have it on DVD!

[TheMotownManiac]

I really enjoy reading such recollections. It provides extra insight into what is surely a very complex character. I’m sure she must have been a complete nightmare to work during that period, but It certainly doesn't stop me being any less of a fan.

that’s one of the wonderful things about this group, everybody has their a little bit of some thing to add, or to comment, or to suggest. When I think of Marv, I think of all the wonderful clips he provided that I never would’ve heard of, I know I had more than a share of run-ins with him, but I don’t think about that anymore I’m so glad.

[sup_fan]

Such a shame RCA did not released the Central Park live album. I'm sure with some editing it could have been turned into a solid album [[probably better than the Greatest Hits Live). At least we now have it on DVD!

oh i think it's a mess. 30 years later its fine enough but no way would it have been a quality album. Day 1 is fine enough but you have the whole mess of the weather. without the visual of her on stage in the rain and wind, the sound isn't great. Day 2 her voice isn't as strong. a little raspy now and then.

now if they were releasing VHS tapes of videos back at this time, perhaps that would have been a better outlet. then you have the wildly dramatic visual of the storm and Day 1. then pick a few pieces of Day 2 and have that almost as "Act II" in the video. but this concert doesn't have the audio quality of her Evening With back in 77.

she certainly could have released the 79 HBO special on audio. her vocals there are masterful.

[sup_fan]

I once, by happenstance, was in TKTS line with an RCA exec in Times Square. He shuttered at the mere mention of her name. He’s the one who told me about them refusing the Central Park album and that’s why there are only 6 rca albums. Her contract was for one per year, but didn’t specify that RCA could dictate content, so They had to accept it, but could refused to release it. He said that they would have re-signed her if she was more cooperative, but both sides couldn’t wait for the contract to end.

oh i would have offered to take him to dinner to extend the conversation!!! fascinating!!

[reese]

oh i think it's a mess. 30 years later its fine enough but no way would it have been a quality album. Day 1 is fine enough but you have the whole mess of the weather. without the visual of her on stage in the rain and wind, the sound isn't great. Day 2 her voice isn't as strong. a little raspy now and then.

now if they were releasing VHS tapes of videos back at this time, perhaps that would have been a better outlet. then you have the wildly dramatic visual of the storm and Day 1. then pick a few pieces of Day 2 and have that almost as "Act II" in the video. but this concert doesn't have the audio quality of her Evening With back in 77.

she certainly could have released the 79 HBO special on audio. her vocals there are masterful.

I think they could have released a single out of her performance of RIBBON IN THE SKY. IMO, it was her best vocal of the day, along with MIRROR, MIRROR.

Back in 1983, one of my local stations aired the Central Park concert and I taped it on 8-track! For months, I used to listen to it every day from 4-5:30 like clockwork. I remember wondering why it wasn't released as a live album but now I agree that it really doesn't work as well without the stunning visuals.

[sup_fan]

I think they could have released a single out of her performance of RIBBON IN THE SKY. IMO, it was her best vocal of the day, along with MIRROR, MIRROR.

Back in 1983, one of my local stations aired the Central Park concert and I taped it on 8-track! For months, I used to listen to it every day from 4-5:30 like clockwork. I remember wondering why it wasn't released as a live album but now I agree that it really doesn't work as well without the stunning visuals.

exactly. it's not that she sounds bad [[like on Greatest Hits Live released in early 90s). but she doesn't sound spectacular. and the real gem here was the craziness with the storm and audio only just doesn't capture it. I think a 45 min concert on vhs could have worked. maybe an intro section with footage of the year proceeding with all the work [[just a couple mins) and then the bulk would be Night 1 and the storm. then selections from the second day.

[reese]

exactly. it's not that she sounds bad [[like on Greatest Hits Live released in early 90s). but she doesn't sound spectacular. and the real gem here was the craziness with the storm and audio only just doesn't capture it. I think a 45 min concert on vhs could have worked. maybe an intro section with footage of the year proceeding with all the work [[just a couple mins) and then the bulk would be Night 1 and the storm. then selections from the second day.

I think if she had released Central Park on VHS back in the 80s it would have been a big seller. The HBO '79 concert was already available on vhs by that time and her 1984 video collection was actually certified gold.

[Boogiedown]

it worked for

https://i.ebayimg.com/thumbs/images/g/e5QAAOSwGc1g6G9e/s-l225.webp

#6 Billboard album chart , double platinum

[sup_fan]

that's also a much stronger concert than Diana's CP show

in theory, Diana Ross Live In Central Park could have/should have been a mega hit album. she had more hits than practically any other artist, she was still a major pop chart presence in 83 [[although that was starting to slip), her name recognition was huge and she's a dynamic live performer.

but listening to a singer in a thunderstorm just isn't very exciting

watching a singer in a thunderstorm is!

[Boogiedown]

ha ha !!!!!

[JLoveLamar]

I would say without hesitation she was offered support and guidance from the record company but she refused to listen. She was very headstrong back then, and firmly believed her own hype. She thought she could do it without any outside interference.
Of course history eventually proved she could not. I did not envy those rca executives back then, despite their many shortcomings.

But, if she were so headstrong, why couldn't she just demand that RCA wait until Quincy was finished with the other album? Couldn't she have demanded more time?

Also, after the album was released, why couldn't Quincy do her follow up?

[sansradio]

But, if she were so headstrong, why couldn't she just demand that RCA wait until Quincy was finished with the other album? Couldn't she have demanded more time?

Also, after the album was released, why couldn't Quincy do her follow up?

Probably because Q had begun work on the Donna Summer LP by then.

[SatansBlues]

Probably because Q had begun work on the Donna Summer LP by then.

Quincy was also producing MJ's Thriller album between April - November '82.

[TheMotownManiac]

I really enjoy reading such recollections. It provides extra insight into what is surely a very complex character. I’m sure she must have been a complete nightmare to work during that period, but It certainly doesn't stop me being any less of a fan.


It doesn’t affect my fandom either, it’s just a bit of interesting information.

[TheMotownManiac]

oh i would have offered to take him to dinner to extend the conversation!!! fascinating!!

Believe me honey I was doing everything I could to continue this conversation short of throwing myself on the ground and grabbing his leg! He didn’t really even want to talk about her as I recall, the whole thing was kind of like a nightmare to him. It was a stressful time in her life she was going through all the Motown separation stuff, being an absolute gigantic superstar and all that that entails plus I assume, some sort of desperate need to stay on top which would be stressful, plus she’s raising three girls plus she’s trying to do a movie career plus she’s single and dating and then gets married to a guy that doesn’t understand show business……Those could be reasons why she was investing less time in her recording career than I would’ve liked. But who knows? She was used to just going in and getting things done quickly. The only RCA album I was happy with was swept away.

[JLoveLamar]

Quincy was also producing MJ's Thriller album between April - November '82.

But he didn't end up producing any albums for her. Couldn't they have made time to do just one?

[Bluebrock]

But, if she were so headstrong, why couldn't she just demand that RCA wait until Quincy was finished with the other album? Couldn't she have demanded more time?

Also, after the album was released, why couldn't Quincy do her follow up?
Following the success of the Fools album she understandably thought she had got the production side off to a tee. Why spend 1000's of bucks on hiring Quincy when you can do it yourself for a fraction of the cost? Also Quincy was in great demand and wasn't going to stand around waiting for her to give him a call.
Had the Fools album flopped as it deserved to we would probably not have been subjected to Silk Electric.

[Ollie9]

Following the success of the Fools album she understandably thought she had got the production side off to a tee. Why spend 1000's of bucks on hiring Quincy when you can do it yourself for a fraction of the cost? Also Quincy was in great demand and wasn't going to stand around waiting for her to give him a call.
Had the Fools album flopped as it deserved to we would probably not have been subjected to Silk Electric.

Have you any idea Mr B if Stevie Wonder was ever approached to produce that first album for rca after QJ was held up?. Diana has shown she clearly loves his music, and even delayed the FBTP album so his song could be included. Perhaps the Motown connection would have made it a no no in 81.

[Bluebrock]

Have you any idea Mr B if Stevie Wonder was ever approached to produce that first album for rca after QJ was held up?. Diana has shown she clearly loves his music, and even delayed the FBTP album so his song could be included. Perhaps the Motown connection would have made it a no no in 81.

I don't think so. I am sure we would have heard something about it before now. Stevie was very busy around this time, and it is unlikely he would have been more readily available than Quincy.
She spoke warmly of Stevie, and there was obviously genuine affection between the two. She would surely have mentioned it had it ever been a possibility.
It would have been a great idea i agree. Stevie was at his creative peak and they could have come up with a classic album. Instead we got the Fools album. Enough said.

[sup_fan]

I don't think so. I am sure we would have heard something about it before now. Stevie was very busy around this time, and it is unlikely he would have been more readily available than Quincy.
She spoke warmly of Stevie, and there was obviously genuine affection between the two. She would surely have mentioned it had it ever been a possibility.
It would have been a great idea i agree. Stevie was at his creative peak and they could have come up with a classic album. Instead we got the Fools album. Enough said.

see i just don't know that i would be all that excited about Stevie producing Diana. it really is mostly just personal preference - just not a huge fan of his music. I don't deny his immense talent but just never really got into his stuff

Given the funkier direction he often went in [[at least the 70s) i don't see Diana's voice being a great fit. Jean Terrell on the other hand was.

IMO Diana's music has almost always had a sophistication and elegance to it. even more urban things like diana 80. And that doesn't mean she has to only sing big soap-opera songs like It's My Turn. Marvin, Smokey both seem to capture that elegance even in many different sounds and styles. stevie and Rick James are more funk - talented and geniuses in those areas but "elegant" doesn't really seem to fit IMO.

[Ollie9]

see i just don't know that i would be all that excited about Stevie producing Diana. it really is mostly just personal preference - just not a huge fan of his music. I don't deny his immense talent but just never really got into his stuff

Given the funkier direction he often went in [[at least the 70s) i don't see Diana's voice being a great fit. Jean Terrell on the other hand was.

IMO Diana's music has almost always had a sophistication and elegance to it. even more urban things like diana 80. And that doesn't mean she has to only sing big soap-opera songs like It's My Turn. Marvin, Smokey both seem to capture that elegance even in many different sounds and styles. stevie and Rick James are more funk - talented and geniuses in those areas but "elegant" doesn't really seem to fit IMO.

Are you saying Stevie as producer would have been least likely of providing Diana with elegant and/or sophisticated songs??
I disagree about Diana’s music as always having been sophisticated and elegant. Much of her rca output is testament to that. “Fool For Your Love”, “Girls”, “We Are The Children”, “Eaten Alive” etc etc.
The albums SW produced on Syreeta are arguably her very best. He chose material that not only complimented her style of voice, but were asophisticated and elegant in content. I see no reason why he could not have done the same with Diana.

[sup_fan]

Are you saying Stevie as producer would have been least likely of providing Diana with elegant and/or sophisticated songs??
I disagree about Diana’s music as always having been sophisticated and elegant. Much of her rca output is testament to that. “Fool For Your Love”, “Girls”, “We Are The Children”, “Eaten Alive” etc etc.
The albums SW produced on Syreeta are arguably her very best. He chose material that not only complimented her style of voice, but were asophisticated and elegant in content. I see no reason why he could not have done the same with Diana.

i'll be the first to admit i'm not widely familiar with Stevie's work - both his own and his productions for others. Much of what i'm basing this off of his the material i'm most familiar with which are his classic 70s albums

now this isn't to say his music is poor quality or that nothing was sophisticated or elegant. Knocks Me Off My Feet is a wonderful song and yes that would be sophisticated and elegant.

My main point is that i just didn't "hear" him as a producer that would have fit as well with DR. and yes, i agree that not every song she recorded was flawless. the examples you cite are classic ones that most fans really dislike [[although i like Girls lol). Another key example is the WO album. Do i think DR could have gone a very contemporary r&b album in 1989 that focused on hip house and all yet still incorporated her signature sophistication and elegance? sure. was WO an example of this - absolutely not

[Bluebrock]

Are you saying Stevie as producer would have been least likely of providing Diana with elegant and/or sophisticated songs??
I disagree about Diana’s music as always having been sophisticated and elegant. Much of her rca output is testament to that. “Fool For Your Love”, “Girls”, “We Are The Children”, “Eaten Alive” etc etc.
The albums SW produced on Syreeta are arguably her very best. He chose material that not only complimented her style of voice, but were asophisticated and elegant in content. I see no reason why he could not have done the same with Diana.

You beat me to the punch Ollie. I was just about to give those examples [[and more besides) which in no shape or form could ever be described as elegant or sophisticated. Most of the Fools and Silk Electric were anything but that.
Sup Fan - At the end of the day it is all down to personal preference. I am a huge Stevie who i rate as quite possibly the greatest songwriter of the 20th Century. His albums contain so many treasures, but i respect your right to disagree. I think he could have worked his magic with Diana, but of course we will never know.
Who would have been your choice of producer assuming you could pick anyone?

[Ollie9]

i'll be the first to admit i'm not widely familiar with Stevie's work - both his own and his productions for others. Much of what i'm basing this off of his the material i'm most familiar with which are his classic 70s albums

now this isn't to say his music is poor quality or that nothing was sophisticated or elegant. Knocks Me Off My Feet is a wonderful song and yes that would be sophisticated and elegant.

My main point is that i just didn't "hear" him as a producer that would have fit as well with DR. and yes, i agree that not every song she recorded was flawless. the examples you cite are classic ones that most fans really dislike [[although i like Girls lol). Another key example is the WO album. Do i think DR could have gone a very contemporary r&b album in 1989 that focused on hip house and all yet still incorporated her signature sophistication and elegance? sure. was WO an example of this - absolutely not

Purely based on the two albums he produced on Syreeta, particularly Stevie Wonder Presents, i think it would have made for an interesting matchup. Bearing in mind also Syreeta’s voice is not that dissimilar to Diana’s.
Sensitive ballads with a little funk mixed in. I for one would have been more then happy with a little of that.

[sup_fan]

You beat me to the punch Ollie. I was just about to give those examples [[and more besides) which in no shape or form could ever be described as elegant or sophisticated. Most of the Fools and Silk Electric were anything but that.
Sup Fan - At the end of the day it is all down to personal preference. I am a huge Stevie who i rate as quite possibly the greatest songwriter of the 20th Century. His albums contain so many treasures, but i respect your right to disagree. I think he could have worked his magic with Diana, but of course we will never know.
Who would have been your choice of producer assuming you could pick anyone?

hmmm - if i had to pick a producer?

Marvin would be top. His productions on What's Going On and Let's Get It On are gorgeous and while i'm not proposing those concepts take on a DR vocal, i think the sounds and styles could have been easily adapted to Diana.

Continuing with the marvin idea, Marvin, Leon Ware and T Boy Ross produced his next studio album, I Want You, which is a huge favorite of mine. Again the lyric and content it not what i'd propose for Diana, but i think the sound, vibe and style could have worked. So in addition to Marvin, potentially Leon or T Boy.

Imagine if T Boy produced a DR album!!

while i'm not a fan of the material he DID do on Diana, Jeff Bowen might be another option.

[RanRan79]

Have you any idea Mr B if Stevie Wonder was ever approached to produce that first album for rca after QJ was held up?. Diana has shown she clearly loves his music, and even delayed the FBTP album so his song could be included. Perhaps the Motown connection would have made it a no no in 81.

I don't know if the cross label thing would've worked, but it would've been awesome to have a Stevie produced album for her in 1981 or 82 or 83.

[RanRan79]

Are you saying Stevie as producer would have been least likely of providing Diana with elegant and/or sophisticated songs??
I disagree about Diana’s music as always having been sophisticated and elegant. Much of her rca output is testament to that. “Fool For Your Love”, “Girls”, “We Are The Children”, “Eaten Alive” etc etc.
The albums SW produced on Syreeta are arguably her very best. He chose material that not only complimented her style of voice, but were asophisticated and elegant in content. I see no reason why he could not have done the same with Diana.

I'm not a fan of Syreeta's, but the Stevie Presents album is one of my all time favorite albums, period. It's such a fantastic piece of music. Stevie was certainly just as capable as anyone of producing sophisticated soul.

As an aside, I often wonder how much of the Stevie Presents album may have had it's origins in the potential Stevie produced Supremes album.

[RanRan79]

Sensitive ballads with a little funk mixed in. I for one would have been more then happy with a little of that.

As would I. I'll personally take that over some of the syrupy Masser ballads, if I'm being honest.

[JLoveLamar]

If Diana was Miss Ross' most popular and highest selling album, why didn't she do another Nile Rodgers album?

[JohnnyB]

If Diana was Miss Ross' most popular and highest selling album, why didn't she do another Nile Rodgers album?

Chic was her first choice, but they were unavailable. Then Quincy…

[SatansBlues]

If Diana was Miss Ross' most popular and highest selling album, why didn't she do another Nile Rodgers album?

She did in 1989, it was called Workin' Overtime.

[Levi Stubbs Tears]

She did in 1989, it was called Workin' Overtime.

showed how out of touch she was since Nile was drugged-up at the time and hadn't been near his peak in years. 1980-85 was when she needed Nile [[& Nard) to work with her - IF they forgave her for getting someone to rework their diana album from 1980.

[Bluebrock]

showed how out of touch she was since Nile was drugged-up at the time and hadn't been near his peak in years. 1980-85 was when she needed Nile [[& Nard) to work with her - IF they forgave her for getting someone to rework their diana album from 1980.

The royalties they received from the DIANA album helped them to forgive her!

[sup_fan]

If Diana was Miss Ross' most popular and highest selling album, why didn't she do another Nile Rodgers album?

I believe there was some talk that had she stayed with Motown that there would have been a follow up album. But because she recorded It's My Turn and it was released to coincide with the movie, they had to put it on an album. Therefore we got To Love Again. And I'd assume they filled it with the older tunes only because she was leaving motown. had she stayed I would think they would have turned over the full lp to Masser for new material

then perhaps after that she'd return to the chic team

[Ollie9]

I'm not a fan of Syreeta's, but the Stevie Presents album is one of my all time favorite albums, period. It's such a fantastic piece of music. Stevie was certainly just as capable as anyone of producing sophisticated soul.

As an aside, I often wonder how much of the Stevie Presents album may have had it's origins in the potential Stevie produced Supremes album.

It’s a truly brilliant album that has withstood the test of time. You could be right about it’s origins being Supreme related. Every song on it would have been a perfect fit for Jean’s style of voice. I would have loved to have heard her version of “Cause We’ve Ended Now As Lovers”. I see the album more a vehicle for a solo singer as opposed to a group.
A Stevie Wonder Presents Jean Terrell album might have launched her solo career into the stratosphere. If she was truly serious about it of course.