THE SUPREMES "IN AND OUT OF LOVE" INSTRUMENTAL & BACKING VOCALS [[Extracted)

[blackguy69]

https://youtu.be/PGQcKOBPkUs

[blackguy69]

Saw this and had to share. And I do hear Mary and the Andantes. Flo must be there somewhere [[ I do know she’s in there)

[drlorne]

Yes I can hear Mary too, but they tend to emphasize the soprano voices more, and I don't hear Florence.

[sup_fan]

on 6/12/67 M and F were in the studio and recorded backing vocals for both In and Out and for It's Going All The Way.

then on 6/13, the A's recorded their backing vocals for In and Out

now the question is did they wipe M and F vocals from In and Out? or just add the A's on top?

was it like Stop In the Name of Love which F and M first recorded their backing vocals and then the A's recorded their [[slightly different) vocals?

on Stop M, F and the A's all sing the chorus.

during the verses, M and F are definitely singing the baby, baby part, but i'll have to listen again to seeif the A's are ALSO singing this.

then in the verse there's the ahhhhhhh section. that is only the A's, i believe

then at the end of the verse you have Think It Over. that's def M and F. does it have the A's too?

[marybrewster]

on 6/12/67 M and F were in the studio and recorded backing vocals for both In and Out and for It's Going All The Way.

then on 6/13, the A's recorded their backing vocals for In and Out

now the question is did they wipe M and F vocals from In and Out? or just add the A's on top?

was it like Stop In the Name of Love which F and M first recorded their backing vocals and then the A's recorded their [[slightly different) vocals?

on Stop M, F and the A's all sing the chorus.

during the verses, M and F are definitely singing the baby, baby part, but i'll have to listen again to seeif the A's are ALSO singing this.

then in the verse there's the ahhhhhhh section. that is only the A's, i believe

then at the end of the verse you have Think It Over. that's def M and F. does it have the A's too?

I'm sure others will disagree, but I can almost always hear Mary. And on this example, I can't. My guess is she and Flo were wiped and the Andantes are what we are hearing.

[blackguy69]

George already explained Stop. U have either just M and F or M, F and the Andantes. With in and out of love M and F weren’t removed they just simply overdubbed the Andantes.

[nomis]

I'm sure others will disagree, but I can almost always hear Mary. And on this example, I can't. My guess is she and Flo were wiped and the Andantes are what we are hearing.

I cant hear Mary or Flo

[marybrewster]

I certainly don't hear 5 background singers.

[marybrewster]

on 6/12/67 M and F were in the studio and recorded backing vocals for both In and Out and for It's Going All The Way.

then on 6/13, the A's recorded their backing vocals for In and Out

now the question is did they wipe M and F vocals from In and Out? or just add the A's on top?

was it like Stop In the Name of Love which F and M first recorded their backing vocals and then the A's recorded their [[slightly different) vocals?

on Stop M, F and the A's all sing the chorus.

during the verses, M and F are definitely singing the baby, baby part, but i'll have to listen again to seeif the A's are ALSO singing this.

then in the verse there's the ahhhhhhh section. that is only the A's, i believe

then at the end of the verse you have Think It Over. that's def M and F. does it have the A's too?

This is a post from "Motown Andy", back in 2011:

The Supremes story is a very complicated one, and when discussing who sang on which records, it is sensitive not only to the Supremes, but to the Andantes, and to the fans. What we report may be loved by many, and in some situations, may not be popular, but it is always important that we tell the truth. Our motivation is that of preserving the Supremes legacy, not diminishing it. If we report a kind word about one Supreme, Mary, Flo or Diana, it is often misconstrued as a slap to the other two ladies. On any project I work on, I can assure you that this is not, and will never be the case. I support them, and I love them, both professionally and personally.

There’s a recent thread about what songs are Tammi Terrell, and what songs are Valerie Simpson. The thread is long and the argument is interesting, but the truth can be found in the research, and in listening to the isolated vocals on the multi-tracks. However, the answers we could give, in the Tammi scenario, in the Supremes scenario, or in other artists scenarios may not be what fans want to hear. I’d rather tell the truth, for myself, and for an accurate history, than to be popular. And at the end of the day, all I can do is present the facts, even if they are conflicting, and if there is no clear answer, the listener can be the judge. Sometimes we have an answer, sometimes we don’t.

The Supremes/Andantes situation does exist, but it has absolutely been blown out of proportion. The Supremes background vocals by Mary and Flo, are on most of their records leading up to Flo’s departure. But there are some they are not on, pure and simple. Mary Wilson has acknowledged this, Florence Ballard in interviews acknowledged this, Diana Ross has acknowledged this.

As one learns the Supremes voices, it becomes more clear when you hear them. Once you learn the Andantes voices, the picture comes right into focus. And if you’re lucky enough to see the Motown session logs and tape cards, or get to hear the isolated vocals, there becomes no doubt when you hear the Supremes, the Andantes, or both.

When I am asked, I often give fans one example to listen to. There are many, but here is my favorite one. Listen to the Supremes version of “Fancy Passes” [[issued on Never-Before-Released-Masters and the same version is the bonus track version issued on There’s A Place For Us). Mary and Flo have a spoken passage. If you know their voices from this song, you’ll also know that when you hear the same spoken passage in the Barbara McNair version, that those girls are the Andantes. Listen to the same parts, learn the two different sets of vocals. Now go listen to other Supremes songs you may have in question.

Stop! In The Name Of Love is the latest hot topic, so I’ll acknowledge it here. Listen to the alternate from disc 2 of More Hits, also in a different mix on the box set. Now listen to the live versions on At The Copa, or the video from the Hollywood Palace. They are all consistent. Now listen to the released “hit” version. The voice you are hearing, is Jackie Hicks. Go back to McNair’s Fancy Passes, you’ll hear Jackie there. You’ll hear her on Run Run Run. But you’ll also hear her clearly on Ask The Lonely by the Four Tops, I Heard It Through The Grapevine by Marvin Gaye and dozens of other non-Supremes songs

I’m sure that regardless of what I could say, some will argue forever. I respect everyone’s opinions. But, it is what it is. More importantly, this is not the first time this information has been suggested, discussed or challenged. Nor will it be the last. I can only confirm what I know.

This does not, and will not tarnish the Supremes reputation as the greatest female group of all-time. The roads they paved for others must be acknowledged and respected. What they accomplished has never been duplicated.

I’ll save the discussion about every other Supremes song for another day. If they weren’t on a particular song, well, it is what it is. They’re still on literally hundreds of other songs. Mary Wilson is still singing these hits today, Diana Ross is still singing this hits today. Diana and Mary’s legacies separately, and together as the Supremes, with Florence [[and Cindy, respectfully) will last long after we’re all gone. I personally love them, they are incredible women. The people I work with love them too, as I know all of you do as well. I have nothing but love and respect for each of these ladies, for all nine of them actually, and will continue to support what they did, and continue to do. I hope you will also.

[after you]

I’m all Reality all I hear is Diana Ross’s beautiful voice

[danman869]

I’m all Reality all I hear is Diana Ross’s beautiful voice

"Diana Ross's beautiful voice" is not the topic being discussed here.

[TheMotownManiac]

I consider The Andantes as part of The Motown Sound period - and they are used like the tambourine when producers find it desirable. They are on Vandellas, Tops - lots of act’s record and I don’t personally care one way or the other, except I prefer Mary and Flo to them. I also prefer The A’s to M&C, And I fully understand why they were used so much, but in no way does that lessen the importance or the contributions of Mary Cindy or whoever. It’s just another tool to make the perfect record like Up The Ladder - I don’t know anybody who would tinker with that record at all. Thank you Andy for the information and the continued support to SupremesNation And all of us Motown junkies!

[blackguy69]

In regards once again regarding Stop in the Name of Love:

George Solomon
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"I'm going to jump in for a minute. [[And hope I don't regret it) The fact is Mary and Flo sang the first version of "Stop" with no augmentation. The second [[released) version features Mary, Florence and the Andantes. Some parts they're all singing together. Some parts it's just Mary and Flo and some parts it's just Andantes. If you listen carefully you can break it down."

[marybrewster]

"Diana Ross's beautiful voice" is not the topic being discussed here.

Diana could fart and it would be bliss.

[Bluebrock]

I’m all Reality all I hear is Diana Ross’s beautiful voice

Good for you, but it is not all about Diana Ross.
Nobody, but nobody loves that lady more than i do on a personal and professional basis, but it is unfair and unkind to come out with uncalled for comments. Please show some respect.

[Bluebrock]

Diana could fart and it would be bliss.

I have heard her fart albeit accidently!!. Bliss is not the word i would use! Surprise maybe, shock definitely, bliss no way!

[TYK1986]

I can hear Mary on some parts, or it's someone who sounds very similar. But I can't hear anyone who sounds like Florence. I do like the Andantes and think they add some good vocals to many of the songs. Maybe the background vocals of In and out of Love were like Where did our love go, where Mary is more audible than Florence. Then the andantes were added to the song and Florence's vocals got burried so underneath them that you can't hear them.

[marybrewster]

I have heard her fart albeit accidently!!. Bliss is not the word i would use! Surprise maybe, shock definitely, bliss no way!

I was KIDDING! I didn't even know Diana could do such a thing! I bet it was in tune, though. ;)

[danman869]

Good for you, but it is not all about Diana Ross.
Nobody, but nobody loves that lady more than i do on a personal and professional basis, but it is unfair and unkind to come out with uncalled for comments. Please show some respect.

Well put, Blue!

[Bluebrock]

I was KIDDING! I didn't even know Diana could do such a thing! I bet it was in tune, though. ;)

Oh it was beautifully melodic. It put me in mind of Louis Armstrong at his finest. Had it been chosen as a bonus track on Why do Fools or Silk Electric it would have been the cream track.

[sup_fan]

Oh it was beautifully melodic. It put me in mind of Louis Armstrong at his finest. Had it been chosen as a bonus track on Why do Fools or Silk Electric it would have been the cream track.

when you mentioned Louis Armstrong with this, i first saw Dizzy Gillespie. lol the ballooning effect of his cheeks lol

[marybrewster]

Oh it was beautifully melodic. It put me in mind of Louis Armstrong at his finest. Had it been chosen as a bonus track on Why do Fools or Silk Electric it would have been the cream track.

The Cream of the Crack? I couldn't resist.

Okay, back to arguing if Flo is or isn't on STOP!

[Spreadinglove21]

I’m all Reality all I hear is Diana Ross’s beautiful voice

Really, whenever you play an Diana Ross, solo or Supremes song, or duet, all you hear is her voice and nothing else? Not the background vocals? Not the instrumentation? Not the beat? How can one listen to a song from the classic Motown 60s and not hear the beat?! You just hear her voice, and nothing else? Interesting ears you got there.

[Bluebrock]

The Cream of the Crack? I couldn't resist.

Okay, back to arguing if Flo is or isn't on STOP!

I will probably be blacklisted for being indiscreet, and i would deserve it too!

[sup_fan]

Really, whenever you play an Diana Ross, solo or Supremes song, or duet, all you hear is her voice and nothing else? Not the background vocals? Not the instrumentation? Not the beat? How can one listen to a song from the classic Motown 60s and not hear the beat?! You just hear her voice, and nothing else? Interesting ears you got there.

i'm going to guess here but i think you guys might be reading too much into After You's comment. After isn't berating or slamming the other elements, he's not saying Mary would have sucked doing lead on this song, he's not saying this or that. I'm just seeing it as he's a huge diana fan and he always loves to hear her artistic interpretation of things. Diana was a master at phrasing and elocution and so let's give credit - that was always a huge element of Sup songs.

[nomis]

it would be great if the Flo and Mary vocals still existed in the vault..I was surprised by The Funny Girl expanded set that Mary And Cindy vocals were re- added into the mix..I didnt think those would have survived

[after you]

This is respect all I hear is her I was never one to sit and think for years on end who was singing background all I cared about was the voice whether it’s Mary or Cindy or the Andandtees please give respect to others opinions and yes the background vocals where nice

[carlo]

Definitely only hearing the Andantes on In and Out of Love. Thanks for sharing this extracted track, blackguy69.

[after you]

Here here Exactly

[marybrewster]

i'm going to guess here but i think you guys might be reading too much into After You's comment. After isn't berating or slamming the other elements, he's not saying Mary would have sucked doing lead on this song, he's not saying this or that. I'm just seeing it as he's a huge diana fan and he always loves to hear her artistic interpretation of things. Diana was a master at phrasing and elocution and so let's give credit - that was always a huge element of Sup songs.

That might be the case, but the comment adds nothing to the overall development of the thread. Much like the multiple threads that have a song name, and then a comment how it is the greatest Diana song ever. How exquisite her voice is. Again, that may be the case. But girl, we gonna go through her entire songbook, track by track? We all know Diana has a lovely voice. We're all past that.

[danman869]

That might be the case, but the comment adds nothing to the overall development of the thread. Much like the multiple threads that have a song name, and then a comment how it is the greatest Diana song ever. How exquisite her voice is. Again, that may be the case. But girl, we gonna go through her entire songbook, track by track? We all know Diana has a lovely voice. We're all past that.

Thank you, MaryB! I wanted to succinctly get the point across in my original post. I think it’s clear that AfterYou likes Diana’s voice. That said, I don’t know that it has to be reiterated with glowing compliments on “every” thread. Plus, this thread was all about the background vocals. Why not just post, “I can’t hear them,” and leave it at that? Or not post anything as it didn’t really need another appraisal of Diana voice.

opinions can be respected, however your original post was a declaration—not an opinion.

[after you]

In all the reality of the world if you take away Diana Ross’s voice what’s left ,hundreds of millions of people who listen to the song her her and are not concerned about background singers saying all that I love all the background singers with Flo being respected for her Abilities Mary her self even said she never sang on most of those songs because they wouldn’t let her so there you go it’s neither here or there all other singers I could not tell the difference who was singing background , they all sounded heavenly

[Philles/Motown Gary]

When it comes to Diana Ross & The Supremes' live recordings, I can easily recognize the difference between Mary & Flo and Mary & Cindy. Their studio recordings, however, are another story. Until the past few years, I had no idea that Flo was on "In And Out Of Love". I was always sure that it was Mary & Cindy and/or The Andantes. As much as I love The Andantes [[the Louvain Demps, Jackie Hicks, & Marlene Barrow blend, whom I can always identify when they're featured on records by The Vandellas, The Marvelettes, and The Velvelettes), I can't always tell whether the Supremes' studio back-up vocals are Mary & Cindy and/or The Andantes. To my ears, their blends are that similar and equally impressive.

[rod_rick]

I agree their blend is very similar but the key is the 3 voices of the Andantes compared to the 2 voices of the Supremes that's the tell tell sign. As for In and Out Of Love I hear Mary and Flo at the very beginning for sure and the then the Andantes are more audible until the end of the recording.

[Philles/Motown Gary]

I agree their blend is very similar but the key is the 3 voices of the Andantes compared to the 2 voices of the Supremes that's the tell tell sign. As for In and Out Of Love I hear Mary and Flo at the very beginning for sure and the then the Andantes are more audible until the end of the recording.

Well, you make a good point, rod_rick, but for back-up vocals on The Supremes records, they often replace Mary & Cindy with only 2/3 of The Andantes, which puts me right back to not being sure which two voices I'm hearing -- The Supremes or The Andantes. Unlike some Motown fans who feel gypped by The Andantes, it doesn't matter to me because Motown always had the best-sounding voices on their recordings -- miles ahead of other record labels. How [[or with whom) they achieved it is immaterial to me. In fact, the more I learn about The Andantes, the more I love and appreciate them.

[JohnnyB]

I agree their blend is very similar but the key is the 3 voices of the Andantes compared to the 2 voices of the Supremes that's the tell tell sign. As for In and Out Of Love I hear Mary and Flo at the very beginning for sure and the then the Andantes are more audible until the end of the recording.

My thoughts as well—I heard Mary and Flo initially, but after the first lines, the Andantes’ vocals became prominent.

[floyjoy678]

I can hear Flo on "Stop!" But I also hear the Andantes mixed in there too. There's definitely more than 3 voices on that one.

[after you]

What the the reasoning on having the Andantes on these records I love them they should of been named Diana Ross and the Supremes Andantes give credit where credit is due I love them all

[danman869]

What the the reasoning on having the Andantes on these records I love them they should of been named Diana Ross and the Supremes Andantes give credit where credit is due I love them all

By that thinking, every group would have had to have been similarly named:

The Four Tops Andantes
The Marvelettes Andantes
Martha and The Vandellas Andantes
etc.

Not really a logical choice. Especially during the "classic era," The Andantes were used on nearly all recordings to "sweeten" the sound of the recordings. The Andantes have since gotten public recognition, but during those days, they [[like The Funk Brothers) were not credited for their work.

[johnjeb]

Saying The Andantes were used to "sweeten" the sound suggests that either the background singers or, for that matter, even the lead vocalist were not up to the task.

When I read the recent books by Lamont Dozier and Brian and Eddie Holland, when released, I was left with the impression that they were so busy and had so many deadlines that the songs needed to be completed quickly. So if a group was touring it was becoming more common to do whatever was necessary to get things done, with or without a specific singer or singers.

I was also left with the impression that since their names were also on the records then the final product also reflected their abilities and careers just as much, if not more, than the singers'.

Understandably HDH had to consider their own careers and livelihoods, as well as their own egos, and not just those of the singers or groups.

[RanRan79]

Thank God George cleared up that "Stop In the Name of Love" issue. Andy's explanation leaves questions. Was he suggesting that Jackie replaced all the Supremes or was he pointing out that she's audibly there in addition? He doesn't make it clear, only that Jackie is on the song. George makes it plain. Andy did not and it left the door open for folks to run through the forum screaming about Diana being the only Supreme on one of their most popular songs. I remember the collective sound of disappointment from some when George commented.:p

[WaitingWatchingLookingForAChance]

What the the reasoning on having the Andantes on these records I love them they should of been named Diana Ross and the Supremes Andantes give credit where credit is due I love them all Of all places, the answer for the Andantes being on all these records is in the last place I'd expect: the booklet that comes with the recent CD release of Diana Ross & The Supremes Sing Funny Girl. I won't say anything else except that reading the comments from Jule Styne, you'll find it wasn't anything new or unfathomable or even scandalous to have extra voices added to a Supremes record or ANYBODY's record for that matter [[i.e. The Andrews Sisters) . Another CD for the 60's group The Exciters says as much; it was common everywhere for extra voices to be added to everyone's records. It was purely to round out and fatten up the sound. It wasn't about abillity, but it was record producers wanting a record to sound as polished and full as possible. This was even coming from a group member and there seemed to be no animosity or anger about it. It was just an industry standard as much as that dreaded AutoTune has become an industry standard today.

[WaitingWatchingLookingForAChance]

By that thinking, every group would have had to have been similarly named:

The Four Tops Andantes
The Marvelettes Andantes
Martha and The Vandellas Andantes
etc.

Not really a logical choice. Especially during the "classic era," The Andantes were used on nearly all recordings to "sweeten" the sound of the recordings. The Andantes have since gotten public recognition, but during those days, they [[like The Funk Brothers) were not credited for their work. I'm not sure if everyone believes Motown was the only record company to use extra voices on their recordings. In my younger days, I certainly thought that was the case. As I've grown older and started buying music and books on other artists, I've found Motown wasn't by any means doing anything that had not been done before they came along and it was a fairly comment practice industry wide. I don't thing the groups made a big deal about it because the goal was to get a record that sounded better than the competition so you could get that hit. If that meant beefing up a group with extra voices or replacing a group on record, that's what everyone did. In some cases, yes, it caused friction as in the case of The Crystals finding out records were coming out that weren't them at all, but the Blossoms. I think they did raise a ruccus with Phil Spector about it, but in general, it seems nearly everyone got dubbed over in recording studios at some point or other. [[I've always had the suspicion that Gary and The Playboys were not actual "Playboys" members in the records but studio session musicians- but I digress...)

[1382hitsville]

Did any of you read the book written by Vickie Wright, Motown from the Background? It's a biography with the cooperation of Louvaine Demps, Marlene Barrow-Tate and Jackie Hicks.

No gossip or dirt, only the hard work the ladies had to do, unrecognized, the pain and the life after Motown left Detroit.

[1382hitsville]

https://www.amazon.com/Motown-Background-Vickie-Wright/dp/190440829X/ref=sr_1_1?dchild=1&keywords=motown+from+the+background&qid=1625574882&sr=8-1

[1382hitsville]

And...bringing it back to subject, I hear both, I can hear Mary, Florence and the Andantes. Reading the liner notes in the Complete Motown Singes Collection [[Volume 7, page 86):
Working title: Summer Good, Summer Bad
Track recorded in Los Angeles, April 20 1967
Lead and Supremes background recorded June 12; Andantes recorded June 13, Strings July 7.

[Ollie9]

Hats off to whoever can hear Florence in the mix. After close evaluation, i don’t hear any trace of her. There’s certainly a voice that sounds like Mary’s in there.