Quincy Jones Says He Refused To Work With Elvis Presley Because He Was Racist

[PeaceNHarmony]

https://dlisted.com/2021/05/25/quincy-jones-says-he-refused-to-work-with-elvis-presley-because-he-was-racist/#more-398727

[jack020]

https://www.hollywoodreporter.com/news/music-news/quincy-jones-michael-jackson-elvis-presley-1234955138/

The interview here!

[TomatoTom123]

That interview must have been fun to record :p

[carlo]

Maybe I missed something but all I saw was that Quincy made a claim that Elvis was racist and he didn't give any solid story or firsthand experience to backup his claim.

[mr_june]

First I've heard of this claim. On the other hand I've only got heard and read that he was solid with black folks and their music.

[splanky]

This claim by many others before Quincy is over 50 years old and has a long and complicated history. It's based on quotes rumoured to have been attributed to Elvis
and believed to be true by generations both within and without the business. Also allowed
to be accepted as so by Colonel Parker, Elvis's own manager, a master manipulator from
jump. The absolute whole truth is something we can never truly know but I think Q here
asserting something he cannot prove is a mistake on his part. As large and important as
a figure as he is in Jazz and American popular music, he's still just a man, only human
and can be silly fighting to stay relevant with age...

[PeaceNHarmony]

This claim by many others before Quincy is over 50 years old and has a long and complicated history. It's based on quotes rumoured to have been attributed to Elvis
and believed to be true by generations both within and without the business. Also allowed
to be accepted as so by Colonel Parker, Elvis's own manager, a master manipulator from
jump. The absolute whole truth is something we can never truly know but I think Q here
asserting something he cannot prove is a mistake on his part. As large and important as
a figure as he is in Jazz and American popular music, he's still just a man, only human
and can be silly fighting to stay relevant with age...I tend to agree with your assessment, Splanky. If Presley was truly racist I don't believe he would have had Black musicians among his crew.

[Levi Stubbs Tears]

Darlene Love always said nice things about Elvis.

He said more than one thing in that interview which weren't substantiated [[and one countered by the person he was said was Elvis' voice coach).

It was pretty much just name-dropping and then moving on to another name.

[carlo]

As large and important as a figure as he is in Jazz and American popular music, he's still just a man, only human and can be silly fighting to stay relevant with age...

Yeah exactly. Quincy has been saying A LOT of stuff in recent years, to the point where his daughters had to pull him aside and forced him to issue a public apology back in 2018. In addition to this latest statement about Elvis, he's also recently said that the Beatles were terrible musicians, that MJ stole a ton of his music from other songs and artists, that MJ's vitiligo diagnosis was BS, that Marvin Gaye and Richard Pryor slept with Marlon Brando, that he knows who killed JFK...the list goes on and on. One of his interviewers also recently asked him if there was any project he ever did that he wished would have been bigger and said something to the effect of, "What are you talking about? Everything I did was big!"

He's a legend, but some things are better left unsaid, otherwise he's just gonna keep pissing people off, like he already has previously. It sounds to me like he's trying to make headlines by sharing gossip and that he has also become bitter in his old age.

[smallworld]

It sounds to me like some are deeming him bitter because they don't like what he has to say about some of their heroes.

[kenneth]

It’s obviously not definitive proof one way or the other, but Elvis was known for spotlighting many of his supporting players, such as the Sweet Inspirations, who he always called out by name and gave some impetus to their own career as a group on their own.

Likely, growing up in the south, he’d heard all the jokes and derisive comments and maybe smiled or laughed along with some of them, but as an adult he certainly never displayed any disdain for African-Americans that I’ve ever been aware of.

[splanky]

It sounds to me like some are deeming him bitter because they don't like what he has to say about some of their heroes.

I don't think it's anywhere as near as simple as that... Okay. let's say in this instance we
take Q's suggestion on face value and run with it. Elvis was racist, right? So what we do
with that "knowledge" is we eliminate him from any discussion of American popular
music and remove his catalog from archived recordings. For everyone. For everywhere.
Forever. Next? I mean we have created a perfect culture, haven't we? Is it really necessary or even possible to remove every incidence of bad speech or behavior from
any individual's past? Of course in a perfect world we would hope that justice would prevail but sometimes shit just happens and what we can't change we have to navigate.
Or we can pretend to not see, if we choose. As funny as it sounds, you have the right to
be wrong if you want. Still I know the trend today is drama. It's fashionable. Rumours
tittiliate. Everybody wants spilled tea. I can think of a number of living celebrities who've
exhibited racist ideas and behavior in the past and who are treated as idols today. Howard Stern, Elton John, Mick Jagger among them. I liked that the Rolling Stones championed The Ohio Players but I also remember Mick calling Jimi Hendrix a "n###r
over Marianne Faithful. So I know he wasn't clear of the bullshit of racism that most of
us have known since the birth of this country.

[smallworld]

So what we do with that "knowledge" is we eliminate him from any discussion of American popular music and remove his catalog from archived recordings. For everyone. For everywhere. Forever. Next? Who suggested "we" do such a thing? Quincy Jones? As I recall, Jones suggested that the Beatles didn't play their instrumentals all that well back then, in his opinion. The Beatles are musical gods to many. Jones' opinion got their goat. That doesn't mean Jones gave his opinion in bad faith.

[splanky]

A lot of people will take the notions of prominent public figures as gospel and act on them
in their own personal life changing reality for others. I'm just saying people would do better
learning to think for themselves. Also to be able to accept disagreements. As far as The
Beatles I agree with Q. Ringo was a shitty drummer when they first came out IMO...:)

[mistercarter2u]

I honestly think Quincy Jones is a little off. He is known as being very opinionated and quite out-spoken. In the past, he has blustered and blabbed and said some off the wall things. The man is a genius and has produced some of the best music ever, but I don't put any stock whatsoever in anything he says.

[smallworld]

A lot of people will take the notions of prominent public figures as gospel and act on them in their own personal life changing reality for others. Have you some public figures in mind? I think it's at best rather paternalistic to suggest that the public should be fed the "right" narrative to ensure an artist's legacy. Quincy Jones has no such remit, nor does any other public figure who wishes to speak on their experiences - e.g. Patti Labelle re Jackie Wilson.

[splanky]

Have you some public figures in mind?

Sure I do. It's a thing that occurs all the time whenever and wherever people interact.
But I don't believe in any "right narratives" or entertain any notion about what people
"should" do. All I can do is suggest a different approach if I'm made aware of an issue
my family or friends might be trying to deal with. Still I can't control the decisions of even my most favorite artist. It's the 50th year since Marvin Gaye recorded What's
Goin" On. What if Berry Gordy didn't allow that release? Jazz pianist Thelonious Monk
didn't like bowed bass. As a Monk fan I listened to a lot of bassist who break his rule.
I wish Otis Williams had kept Damon Harris in The Temptations and learned to deal with
his youthful cockiness but tell him he "should"? As far as Patti Labelle, I believe her,
I don't need proof but you know what? We are in the shape we're in today because of people continue to believe in some very public people still lying....aren't we?...

[smallworld]

We are in the shape we're in today because of people continue to believe in some very public people still lying....aren't we?... And has it ever been different? We have always been sold images, tweaked for maximum impact. Jones' recent comments don't seem unbelievable to me. Cybill Shepherd has already indicated that Elvis classed himself apart from black men... There are degrees to racism.

[splanky]

Oh, You don't have to tell me that!...I lived, worked and traveled in virtually every state
on the eastern seaboard from New York to Jacksonville, Florida since 1966...I'm not saying
I don't believe Elvis had no notions of superiority just that I consider foremost his actions
which I do with every single individual human being I come across in life. I have no access
to what goes on inside the head of anyone. I don't care as long as they don't empty that
bucket on me. I've worked alongside people who openly admitted to racist ideas, argued
the benefits of apartheid in South Africa and American slavery. I also know what it's like
to be physically assaulted having experienced that twice in South Carolina and once in
Tennessee. I don't give a shit what anyone believe in their heads. Only the things released as those kind of encounters concern me....Hell, Abraham Lincoln said himself
he will always believe in the superiority of white people over blacks but people still love
to toss out his name like he was some perfect humanitarian. "But he freed the slaves!"
Sure he did. It was a last resort...A documented one too...

[carlo]

I think it's at best rather paternalistic to suggest that the public should be fed the "right" narrative to ensure an artist's legacy. Quincy Jones has no such remit, nor does any other public figure who wishes to speak on their experiences - e.g. Patti Labelle re Jackie Wilson.

I don't think the two situations can be compared. Patti LaBelle shared a first-hand experience that affected her directly. Quincy is talking about things like who slept with who, or Elvis was racist, without any hint of it being first-hand experience/knowledge. Putting his opinions aside about different artists, he's making a lot statements about artists' personal lives and integrity, with no clarification or explanation. To me, that is completely different and just plain tacky. It would be different if he were to say, "Yes, I dropped off Marvin Gaye for a sleepover at Marlon Brando's house" or "Elvis walked in the studio and got angry with a musician, hurling racial slurs." However, this is not the case. He's making general statements about legends that come off as secondhand gossip, which would make most people question his intentions. He's allowed to express his opinions about different artists' music, plagiarism, competitiveness, etc. But delving into these other areas that I mentioned just makes him seem like he thinks he's the authority on everyone's lives, without any substance to back up the shit he's saying. It's pretty much slanderous, and it's no wonder that Rashida and his other daughters had to step in three years ago to have him publicly backpeddle and apologize. Seems like he's back at it again.

[smallworld]

I don't think the two situations can be compared. Patti LaBelle shared a first-hand experience that affected her directly. Quincy is talking about things like who slept with who, or Elvis was racist, without any hint of it being first-hand experience/knowledge.

I can understand wanting further details from Jones to better make one's own judgment on Presley's racism. But he specifically makes reference to a run in with Presley while in the presence of Tommy Dorsey. Quincy knows what he's doing by not going into detail. His comment goes on record but he's not going to have hell rain down on him because he hasn't really threatened Elvis' reputation.

As for the personal lives stuff, there is already information out there - some from their spouses, some from the horse's mouth - about Brando, Pryor and Gaye. I reacted in much the same way as when Etta James mentioned that Doris Day and Sly Stone were seeing each other - a raised eyebrow - and I moved on to the next paragraph.

I understand that, for some people, Quincy's comments are read as a threat to the artists' image. I think that's an overreaction.

[sansradio]

I reacted in much the same way as when Etta James mentioned that Doris Day and Sly Stone were seeing each other - a raised eyebrow - and I moved on to the next paragraph.

Off topic, but for the record, smallworld, Doris and Sly's romance was widely reported and well known at the time.

[soulster]

The claim that Elvis Presley was racist goes back to the debunked rumor that he once said that "The only thing a Negro can do for me is shine my shoes and buy my records". But, a lot of Black people, to this day, believe it at face value. Rap group Public Enemy didn't help when Professor Griff parroted the belief in their 1989 single "Fight The Power".

If we knew about all the things our musical legends have said and done, and canceled them, we wouldn't have any. Ted Nugent, Eric Clapton, Jerry Lee Lewis, Ray Stevens, Pat Boone, Bill Cosby, Charlie Daniels, and the many that have been mentioned on this thread, and scores of others. But, cancelling is up to each individual as they see fit. For many of these artists, the dominant class has given their tacit approval of these artists comments and quietly excused their behavior, while criticizing the comments they don't like. And, every time the ruling class feels like their power is threatened, endless Newsweek magazines pop up on the store shelves paying tributes to the likes of John Wayne, and what he said in a 1971 Playboy magazine is heavily documented.

As for Quincy Jones, the man is a talented legend, but I think he may be experiencing some form of dementia. My personal opinion with no facts to back it up, just my opinion. How else can one account for his erratic statements, especially about individuals who are no longer around to defend themselves?

[splanky]

Off topic, but for the record, smallworld, Doris and Sly's romance was widely reported and well known at the time.

They met one time. One afternoon. Doris's son Terry and Sly shared the same manager
for a minute and she happened to be home when Sly was visiting. They chatted, small
talk, joked, that's all. He covered her hit song Que Sera Sera and everybody and their momma started spreading the rumor that still lives to this day. Sly was hilariously intrigued by all of it and coyly let it run it's course. Apparently Etta James believed it too...

[carlo]

As for Quincy Jones, the man is a talented legend, but I think he may be experiencing some form of dementia. My personal opinion with no facts to back it up, just my opinion. How else can one account for his erratic statements, especially about individuals who are no longer around to defend themselves?

I sadly suspect the same, Soulster.

Splanky, thanks for the interesting background info regarding Doris Day and Sly Stone.

[sansradio]

They met one time. One afternoon. Doris's son Terry and Sly shared the same manager
for a minute and she happened to be home when Sly was visiting. They chatted, small
talk, joked, that's all. He covered her hit song Que Sera Sera and everybody and their momma started spreading the rumor that still lives to this day. Sly was hilariously intrigued by all of it and coyly let it run it's course. Apparently Etta James believed it too...

Wow...I stand corrected. Thanks!

[motony]

I have watched interviews with different members of the Sweet Inspirations on youtube and they all LOVE Elvis and only have good things to say about him.

[PeaceNHarmony]

They met one time. One afternoon. Doris's son Terry and Sly shared the same manager
for a minute and she happened to be home when Sly was visiting. They chatted, small
talk, joked, that's all. He covered her hit song Que Sera Sera and everybody and their momma started spreading the rumor that still lives to this day. Sly was hilariously intrigued by all of it and coyly let it run it's course. Apparently Etta James believed it too...I forgot all about this rumor - it was QUITE the scandal back then.

[soulster]

Well, here is Wikipedia's entry about the controversy:



Relationship with the African-American community

When Dewey Phillips first aired "That's All Right" on Memphis' WHBQ [[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/WHBQ_[[AM)), many listeners who contacted the station by phone and telegram to ask for it again assumed that its singer was black.[61] [[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Elvis_Presley#cite_note-FOOTNOTEGuralnick1994100%E2%80%9301-63)

From the beginning of his national fame, Presley expressed respect for African-American performers and their music, and disregard for the norms of segregation and racial prejudice then prevalent in the South. Interviewed in 1956, he recalled how in his childhood he would listen to blues musician Arthur Crudup [[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arthur_Crudup)—the originator of "That's All Right"—"bang his box the way I do now, and I said if I ever got to the place where I could feel all old Arthur felt, I'd be a music man like nobody ever saw."[45] [[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Elvis_Presley#cite_note-FOOTNOTEGuralnick2004-47) The Memphis World, an African-American newspaper, reported that Presley, "the rock 'n' roll phenomenon", "cracked Memphis' segregation laws" by attending the local amusement park on what was designated as its "colored night".[45] [[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Elvis_Presley#cite_note-FOOTNOTEGuralnick2004-47) Such statements and actions led Presley to be generally hailed in the black community during the early days of his stardom.[45] [[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Elvis_Presley#cite_note-FOOTNOTEGuralnick2004-47) In contrast, many white adults, according to Billboard's Arnold Shaw, "did not like him, and condemned him as depraved. Anti-negro prejudice doubtless figured in adult antagonism. Regardless of whether parents were aware of the Negro sexual origins of the phrase 'rock 'n' roll', Presley impressed them as the visual and aural embodiment of sex."[391] [[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Elvis_Presley#cite_note-FOOTNOTEDenisoff197522-395)


Despite the largely positive view of Presley held by African Americans, a rumor spread in mid-1957 that he had at some point announced, "The only thing Negroes can do for me is buy my records and shine my shoes." A journalist with the national African-American weekly Jet [[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jet_magazine), Louie Robinson, pursued the story. On the set of Jailhouse Rock [[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jailhouse_Rock_[[1957_film)), Presley granted Robinson an interview, though he was no longer dealing with the mainstream press. He denied making such a statement: "I never said anything like that, and people who know me know that I wouldn't have said it. ... A lot of people seem to think I started this business. But rock 'n' roll was here a long time before I came along. Nobody can sing that kind of music like colored people. Let's face it: I can't sing like Fats Domino [[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fats_Domino) can. I know that."[392] [[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Elvis_Presley#cite_note-FOOTNOTEWilliams2012-396) Robinson found no evidence that the remark had ever been made, and on the contrary elicited testimony from many individuals indicating that Presley was anything but racist.[45] [[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Elvis_Presley#cite_note-FOOTNOTEGuralnick2004-47)[393] [[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Elvis_Presley#cite_note-FOOTNOTEPilgrim2006-397) Blues singer Ivory Joe Hunter [[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ivory_Joe_Hunter), who had heard the rumor before he visited Graceland one evening, reported of Presley, "He showed me every courtesy, and I think he's one of the greatest."

[394] [[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Elvis_Presley#cite_note-FOOTNOTEGuralnick1994426-398) Though the rumored remark was discredited, it was still being used against Presley decades later.[395] [[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Elvis_Presley#cite_note-FOOTNOTEKolawole2002-399) The identification of Presley with racism—either personally or symbolically—was expressed in the lyrics of the 1989 rap hit "Fight the Power [[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fight_the_Power_[[Public_Enemy_song))", by Public Enemy [[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Public_Enemy_[[group)): "Elvis was a hero to most / But he never meant shit to me / Straight-up racist that sucker was / Simple and plain".[396] [[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Elvis_Presley#cite_note-FOOTNOTEMyrie2009123%E2%80%9324-400)
The persistence of such attitudes was fueled by resentment over the fact that Presley, whose musical and visual performance idiom owed much to African-American sources, achieved the cultural acknowledgement and commercial success largely denied his black peers.[393] [[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Elvis_Presley#cite_note-FOOTNOTEPilgrim2006-397) Into the 21st century, the notion that Presley had "stolen" black music still found adherents.[example needed [[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:AUDIENCE)][395] [[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Elvis_Presley#cite_note-FOOTNOTEKolawole2002-399)[396] [[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Elvis_Presley#cite_note-FOOTNOTEMyrie2009123%E2%80%9324-400) Notable among African-American entertainers expressly rejecting this view was Jackie Wilson [[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jackie_Wilson), who argued, "A lot of people have accused Elvis of stealing the black man's music, when in fact, almost every black solo entertainer copied his stage mannerisms from Elvis."[397] [[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Elvis_Presley#cite_note-FOOTNOTEMasley2002-401) Moreover, Presley also acknowledged his debt to African-American musicians throughout his career. Addressing his '68 Comeback Special audience, he said, "Rock 'n' roll music is basically gospel or rhythm and blues, or it sprang from that. People have been adding to it, adding instruments to it, experimenting with it, but it all boils down to [that]."[398] [[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Elvis_Presley#cite_note-FOOTNOTEOsborne2000207-402) Nine years earlier, he had said, "Rock 'n' roll has been around for many years. It used to be called rhythm and blues."[399] [[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Elvis_Presley#cite_note-FOOTNOTEBertrand2000198-403)


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Elvis_Presley#Relationship_with_the_African-American_community

On a personal level, my family did not have any Elvis Presley music in our household. Therefore, as a 60s child, I never heard him or heard of him until 1969's "Suspicious Minds". I heard it a lot on the radio and loved it. Around that time, I discovered that my [[White) best friend's father was a huge Elvis Presley fan, and his favorite song is "Don't Cry Daddy". It wasn't until the early 70s that I understood that Elvis Presley was culturally significant. Frankly, I thought Elvis was just a crooner, like Frank Sinatra, that only old White people listened to because I had never heard of him. My family never even uttered his name, so, today I figured that they had heard about the comments too, and believed them. I didn't find out about the details of this controversy until after they all passed, so I can't ask them why they never had any Elvis music in the house. I can only assume.

After Elvis died in 1977, I started hearing about a lot of racist Elvis fans, especially after Michael Jackson married his daughter Lisa Marie. I wondered how racists could love a man who essentially sang and danced Black could hate Black people. If only fed into my belief that Elvis was racist, and was reinforced by that Public Enemy song. Now, I know better. Anyway, that's my personal experience with the Elvis Presley legend.

[smallworld]

especially about individuals who are no longer around to defend themselves?

The dead can't sue.


They met one time. One afternoon. Doris's son Terry and Sly shared the same manager
for a minute and she happened to be home when Sly was visiting. They chatted, small talk, joked, that's all. He covered her hit song Que Sera Sera and everybody and their momma started spreading the rumor that still lives to this day. Sly was hilariously intrigued by all of it and coyly let it run it's course. Apparently Etta James believed it too...

From Etta James' "Rage to Survive," top of page 195:


[Sly] asked me to sing a duet with him on "Que Sera, Sera," but it never came off; the night of the session he was too high to work. That's when he was going with Doris Day. I met her up at Sly's, along with her son Terry Melcher.

[carlo]

The dead can't sue.

Their estates do.

[PeaceNHarmony]

Their estates do.A - to - the - men! Just refer to those Greedy, Griftin' Gayes.

[smallworld]

Their estates do. Was Quincy Jones sued for his last freewheelin' interview?

[Jerry Oz]

Read the article and he said that Tommy Dorsey said Elvis was racist and refused to work with him. Quincy didn't work with him based on Dorsey's statement, not Jones' experience. The headline is a bit misleading.

[soulster]

Well, then Tommy Dorsey perpetuated the false rumor.

[splanky]

I loved Etta James, always will but she could stretch the truth sometimes. Any relationship
between an about 30 year old Sly Stone and 50 year old Doris Day would surely have been
more documented than a side note in someone's memoirs 30 years after the fact. We've been down this road before. Etta also believed that billiard legend Minnesota Fats was her
biological father because he used to frequent the area where her mother used to hang out. She kept trying to chase Fats down but he refused to talk to her about the time he spent there....

[Boogiedown]

This is a terrific interview in which Quincy shoots from the mouth. I like that and mostly trust his quick comments [ with proper suspicion] over someone who has to prethink/gauge everything they are about to say.

Its too bad that the title of the thread is what it is...that was only a brief answer to a question of many that were quite diversified ....This comment was not explored in the interview enough to be singled out, but that is today's obsession isn't it. Let's taint every possible thing we can ....And shame on the interviewer to not say ,"now wait a minute that's quite a charge you've made , especially in these tender times, maybe you'd like to elaborate on your disparity?"

As far as Quincy's claim to refuse to work with Elvis:

from wiki

Jones played second trumpet in the studio band that supported 21-year-old Elvis Presley [[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Elvis_Presley) in his first six television appearances .....

so "refuse" is apparently an incorrect recollection.

It also strikes me that Quincy is saying he was told by someone else [Tommy Dorsey] that Elvis was a racist ...he just heard it and that was good enough for him ....did he experience it [?] ...we all 'hear' things.....and apparently Elvis was such a racist that he wouldn't let Jones share the stage with him six times:rolleyes:...

Interesting that this is coming from Tommy Dorsey .....maybe he is jealous of the changing of the guard ...feels threatened by Elvis and the resulting change in musical trends, maybe he is saying things to Quincy who is doing the arranging for his show ...doing so so Quincy won't favor Elvis, be drawn to him .....maybe maybe maybe as to his motives .

Here is Elvis on Tommy Dorsey's show , proceeded by Dorsey's band/dancers ....that stage doesn't seem very integrated, if Dorsey was so concerned about the issue, maybe he should've started there. And apparently Quincy wasn't bothered by this either ....or not enough to mention it this time around , lol.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oXiX3cl03DE


Elvis had his own regular producer for the second half of his career , during the time when Quincy had grown big, so I'm doubting there was even an approach to Quincy to somehow do work with Elvis in this regard.



Having said all that , it also wouldn't surprise me that Elvis might have been a bit of a punk early on, in his rockabilly years. If so, I prefer to think his world experiences broadened him. Racist is too strong a word to apply to somebody just 'cause someone told you so once along the way, ...

Elvis had a home in Hawaii and he remained rooted in the South, he made his home there ....With fame, Elvis didn't distance himself by setting up respite in a place meant for the elite , say in some place like Bel Air or ....Martha's Vineyard.

Back to Elvis' long time friend and producer: Felton Jarvis. Besides Elvis, he worked with many other acts, these include Fats Domino , Charley Pride, and Gladys Knight and the Pips, so incorporate that into the mix however one sees fit.

Fascinating interview ...probably the highlight is Quincy revealing he's putting together a new book specifically in order to put out some truth !!!
What a life he's lived! And of course what stories...


[added: re-watching the Dorsey TV show ,I bet that is Quincy seen charging forward with his trumpet]

[splanky]

Boogie, I don't think Quincy thinks of his time spent playing second trumpet in Dorsey's band as working WITH Elvis or any other guest who appeared on Dorsey's show. I also
don't think Tommy felt threatened at all by Elvis and the incoming rock rollers. My father
was a big fan of his but I never got into him really deep. He died that same year. The year
I was born. I didn't appreciate his music til 20+ years later....

[Boogiedown]

Thanks Splanky , who Elvis or Dorsey?

why would big banders not feel threatened ?

do we know those first six times were all on Dorsey's show ...or there were also other TV appearances.

And if all six appearances were on Dorsey's ......I thought Dorsey wanted nothing to do with Elvis .....six times though hmmm....

[smallworld]

I loved Etta James, always will but she could stretch the truth sometimes. Any relationship between an about 30 year old Sly Stone and 50 year old Doris Day would surely have been
more documented than a side note in someone's memoirs 30 years after the fact. We've been down this road before. Etta also believed that billiard legend Minnesota Fats was her biological father because he used to frequent the area where her mother used to hang out. She kept trying to chase Fats down but he refused to talk to her about the time he spent there....

I don't think it's a given that a relationship likely to be deemed "bad for business" would not be documented widely, especially if that relationship may have been confined to the individuals' homes.

You stated that Day and Stone met one time, with Sly as a house visitor. Etta James stated that she met Day at Stone's place. Day was the visitor. I wonder how Etta is stretching the truth on that point...

Etta's matter of fact statement on the Day/Stone relationship, when she frequently socialised with Stone as an adult, can hardly be compared to a belief she held about her conception.

[StuBass1]

Who really knows about these rumors, etc, however, Etta James, despite her musical legacy was addicted to heroin for much of her adult life, including virtually the entire 60's, as well as arrests for drugs and bad checks... She narrowly escaped a lengthy prison sentence when she and her husband were arrested with a quantity of heroin in the 70's and he took the rap, and a 10 year prison sentence. I generally take unverified and uncorroborated claims by heroin addicts with a pinch of salt...That said, who really knows and who really cares???...As for Quincy, he's made several outrageous and undocumented claims in recent years... Some of those things, even if true, would probably be better left unsaid, including his opinion's about Michael Jackson stealing music, he knows who killed Kennedy, his opinion the Beatles were "terrible musicians", and numerous rumors about the sexuality of several Hollywood stars [[who cares), claim he dated Ivanka Trump [[again who cares)... As for Elvis, spending his formative years in Jim Crow Mississippi, he may have brought certain stereotypes and ingrained prejudices into his early persona, who knows, however, most of his adolescent and adult life was heavily influenced by Black artists and Black culture... He desegregated an amusement park in Memphis and was widely hailed by Black Memphis newspapers at the time as being "indifferent" to, and ignored the racial barriers expected of White performers at the time... He recorded several songs lamenting racial issues like Joe South's Walk A Mile In My Shoes and In The Ghetto...He was generous to a fault lavishing expensive gifts on the likes of Sammy Davis Jr and others, reportedly significantly contributed to Jackie Wilsons hospital bills as Jackie lay in a coma, and was certainly loyal to all those around him in his clique and entourage, including the his Black backup singers that included first The Blossoms and later The Sweet Inspirations who toured with Elvis from 1969 to 1977 [[who re-formed after Elvis death to do Elvis Tribute Shows)... He was accused of making derogatory statements about Blacks in an alleged Edward R Murrow television interview, an interview that never took place and those who knew Elvis stated he would never make such statements... Obviously, some still express bitterness that White artists like Elvis prospered off music they feel belonged to the Black artists who were the early pioneers of the style that became the DNA of Rock & Roll, and built huge financial empires off of it... That said...even Quincy should realize that even he is not the "perfect" human being...

[splanky]

Boogie, as far as the fanship thing my pop liked Dorsey...

smallworld, I don't know Etta said what she did or whether it came out like that because
of some retelling with her co-author, that was David Ritz wasn't it? Terry had people over all the time. Sly may come by a second time but there was no relationship between him
and Doris Day as far as any of the assortment of the folks who've tried investigating the
issue have found. Sly was married to Kathy Silva around that time. The album Frisky
which features the song Que Sera Sera has a picture of him and her on the cover. This
rumor has been debunked several times already.....

[smallworld]

Some of those things, even if true, would probably be better left unsaid

Thankfully, that's not the historian way.


album Frisky
which features the song Que Sera Sera has a picture of him and her on the cover. This rumor has been debunked several times already.....

I can debunk your claim as "Que Sera Sera" is on the album Fresh. Sly and family appear on the cover of an album named Small Talk.



Terry had people over all the time. Sly may come by a second time

You must not be reading what I've posted because I've written more than once that Etta's claim was that she met Doris Day at Sly Stone's place, not anyone else's residence.

For those interested in Etta James' words, I'll post a longer extract below. I think it's notable throughout the book that Etta is unstinting when it comes to her drug use - there is only one "fade to black" moment in her memoir. Her Doris Day comment is matter of fact. It's not even an anecdote. The two residences - one near Sunset Strip, one in Bel Air - gives insight into how Stone conducted his affairs...


Sly was sly. He kept a small house off Sunset Strip, near the Whiskey. That's where he'd test out his chicks before he moved them up to his big crib in Bel Air.


We'd go up to Bel Air, where he'd work in his fabulous home studio. He'd also sing in bed or stretched out on the couch--the place was wired so he could cut anywhere--and we'd just watch, amazed. He asked me to sing a duet with him on "Que Sera, Sera," but it never came off; the night of the session he was too high to work. That's when he was going with Doris Day. I met her up at Sly's, along with her son Terry Melcher. I also met the beautiful Eurasian sisters Sly was sleeping with. He finally threw out one and married the other in Madison Square Garden in a wedding thrown by Charlie Garcia.

[splanky]

You know I had those albums on vinyl and mixed up the covers, I'll give that but that's all I can concede on this subject. I read your comments and have read Etta's book myself but took a lot with a grain of salt as I do all "autobiographies" of public figures. That's where I
first heard her Minnesota Fats tales. Matter of fact means can be or has been proven. Outside of Etta's head nobody has ever shown that. Believe whatever you want, small....

[smallworld]

You know I had those albums on vinyl

I don't know but I believe you.


I also believe this is a definition for "matter of fact":


unemotional and practical.

"she tried to keep her tone light and matter-of-fact"




Synonyms include: straightforward, plain, unembellished.

I maintain that word accurately describes James' one line on Doris Day in Rage to Survive.

[kenneth]

Their estates do.

But not for defamation, Carlo. By definition, you cannot defame the dead. So Quincy Jones or anybody else is safe saying anything they want to about Elvis Presley and his estate can’t take any action against it.

[splanky]

So? Since I can walk on water I'll.........I just said that in a matter of fact tone. People use
"matter of fact" as a conversational expression every single day, doesn't prove anything
that comes out of their mouth is true...The fact of the matter is no one has found proof
of a relationship between Sly Stone and Doris Day....If you can dig that up, post it and I
will salute you....

[smallworld]

You're resorting to hyperbole? That doesn't strengthen your argument.

[StuBass1]

[QUOTE=smallworld;631667]Thankfully, that's not the historian way.

Quincy hardly fits my definition of an "historian"... These days, he's more like a bitter old man seeking attention with statements and opinions that are highly questionable and often contradicted...

[smallworld]

Quincy hardly fits my definition of an "historian"... These days, he's more like a bitter old man seeking attention with statements and opinions that are highly questionable and often contradicted...

And those who seek to prove him wrong should do so, hopefully without resorting to insults.


Further to the Sly/Day claims. Jet magazine had an interview with Sly Stone in their issue of October 3rd, 1974. The following is stated:


He has three Mercedez Benz autos [[one, a present from his friend, actress Doris Day)

The quote is from page 60 of the issue. It can be read on Google Books.

Doris Day sure was generous to someone she allegedly met only once...

[StuBass1]

And those who seek to prove him wrong should do so, hopefully without resorting to insults.

Poor Q...Can't finish a sentence without the word "M-'F**ker... Asked about his greatest innovation, his response is "Everything I've done"... Claims he KNOWS Sam Giancana had JFK killed... If he knows and talks about it, you'd think he'd present at least a shred of evidence???... Just Q being Q...Exquisite arranger and producer who has obviously had many experiences with many people, but that does not an "historian" make... Many people in the industry believe he's gone off the deep end, but there are people who will, and have the right to believe anything they read, especially from someone they admire...I'll leave it at that...

[smallworld]

that does not an "historian" make...

I never made a claim that Jones is a historian. My response was to a comment about what might best be left unsaid.

[splanky]

https://www.google.com/books/edition/_/YRIM1weHOZIC?hl=en&gbpv=1&bsq=doris%20day

[sansradio]

Here’s an excerpt from another Sly bio that supports splanky’s thesis:

http://andrewdarlington.blogspot.com/2019/05/book-excerpt-sly-stone-meets-doris-day.html?m=1

And for s**ts and giggles, this from the Soulful Detroit archives [featuring commentary from not only splanky, but the late marv2]:

https://soulfuldetroit.com/showthread.php?674-Sly-or-Doris

[arr&bee]

James brown and jackie wilson were friends of elvis.

[splanky]

Thanks, sansradio...That link I posted above is to the I Want To Take You Higher book
I referred to Marv back then. Sly liked to stir the pot...

[sansradio]

Thanks, sansradio...That link I posted above is to the I Want To Take You Higher book
I referred to Marv back then. Sly liked to stir the pot...

For sure. He’s a card and a half. The Forum link really drives home how much I miss marv2’s presence.

[smallworld]

The Google preview above doesn't work for me but if it links to the excerpts below, they don't actually contradict the passage in James' book. David Kapralik was careful enough to state that to his knowledge, Day and Stone met only one time.


Today, David Kapralik and Steve Paley are both ready to put the myth to rest. "I was Terry Melcher's mentor at Columbia, and we became good friends and remained so through the years," says David. "I introduced Sly to Terry, and several times Terry joined me at Sly's recording sessions. I often visited with Terry and Doris at their home in Beverly Hills, and one day I brought Sly with me to hang out with Terry." "Sly was mainly interested in buying one of her cars," Steve continues. "Sly did go
to Doris's house, but only to see the car in question, and that's when Terry introduced him to his mother."

"They had a brief conversation, and then Doris went into the kitchen," David goes on. "While she was out of the room, Sly went to the piano in the living room and began to play `Que Sera, Sera.' Then Doris came out of the kitchen, on her way elsewhere in the
house, and with Sly accompanying her, she sang a few bars of the song." Steve describes their rendition as "a gospel version," not unlike its delivery on Fresh. "To the best of my knowledge, that is the first and last time Sly and Doris met," attests David, "despite the false and scurrilous tabloid reports that appeared subsequently." "After the song came out, that stupid Sly-Doris Day rumor started," concludes Steve. "It amused Sly at the time, but irritated Doris. Part of the reason this rumor took hold was
because Doris was supposedly having an affair with Maury Wills, a black L.A. Dodgers baseball player," an item attested to in Wills's 1991 autobiography.

Among Sly's paramours after Riot and during the making of Fresh was Kathy Silva, a lovely Hawaiian-born aspiring actress and model about ten years his junior. She'd romanced him in the company of her older sister, April, and had befriended Maria
Boldway during Ria's last stay with Sly. In 1973, Kathy bore Sly a son, Sylvester Bubba Ali Stewart Jr., and the common-law family of three posed for the cover of Small Talk, released the following year.

The idea of spendthrift Sly Stone eager to buy a secondhand car seems a little odd and indeed he told Mike Douglas that Doris gave him the car, not that he bought it. He's careful to say that he and Day never took each other out. He gives little away when Douglas tries to probe why Doris Day would give him a car.

2:00 onwards


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uxrHEGNu6o4

[soulster]

Who really knows about these rumors, etc, however, Etta James, despite her musical legacy was addicted to heroin for much of her adult life, including virtually the entire 60's, as well as arrests for drugs and bad checks... She narrowly escaped a lengthy prison sentence when she and her husband were arrested with a quantity of heroin in the 70's and he took the rap, and a 10 year prison sentence. I generally take unverified and uncorroborated claims by heroin addicts with a pinch of salt...That said, who really knows and who really cares???...As for Quincy, he's made several outrageous and undocumented claims in recent years... Some of those things, even if true, would probably be better left unsaid, including his opinion's about Michael Jackson stealing music, he knows who killed Kennedy, his opinion the Beatles were "terrible musicians", and numerous rumors about the sexuality of several Hollywood stars [[who cares), claim he dated Ivanka Trump [[again who cares)... As for Elvis, spending his formative years in Jim Crow Mississippi, he may have brought certain stereotypes and ingrained prejudices into his early persona, who knows, however, most of his adolescent and adult life was heavily influenced by Black artists and Black culture... He desegregated an amusement park in Memphis and was widely hailed by Black Memphis newspapers at the time as being "indifferent" to, and ignored the racial barriers expected of White performers at the time... He recorded several songs lamenting racial issues like Joe South's Walk A Mile In My Shoes and In The Ghetto...He was generous to a fault lavishing expensive gifts on the likes of Sammy Davis Jr and others, reportedly significantly contributed to Jackie Wilsons hospital bills as Jackie lay in a coma, and was certainly loyal to all those around him in his clique and entourage, including the his Black backup singers that included first The Blossoms and later The Sweet Inspirations who toured with Elvis from 1969 to 1977 [[who re-formed after Elvis death to do Elvis Tribute Shows)... He was accused of making derogatory statements about Blacks in an alleged Edward R Murrow television interview, an interview that never took place and those who knew Elvis stated he would never make such statements... Obviously, some still express bitterness that White artists like Elvis prospered off music they feel belonged to the Black artists who were the early pioneers of the style that became the DNA of Rock & Roll, and built huge financial empires off of it... That said...even Quincy should realize that even he is not the "perfect" human being...

Thanks Stu! I think you nailed the situation perfectly.

As far as Etta James is concerned, she was one messed up puppy! Up to the day she died, she was abusing alcohol/substances.

[Boogiedown]

very interesting thread !

now I'm trying to imagine the late night girl talk on the phone between Doris Day and Rock Hudson ! :o