PDA

View Full Version : The Supremes Sing Lesser-Known Smokey On ‘The Composer


test

milven
05-10-2021, 01:33 PM
https://www.udiscovermusic.com/wp-content/uploads/2021/05/Supremes-Composer.jpg

The Composer is not a favorite of many fans, but I have always liked it, so there !!! :) I'm an instrumental freak, and this article mentions the prominent strings and hard piano. That may be what turns me on to the song.


By Paul Sexton

The good times for the Supremes were so very good, that it was even harder for them to take when some of their singles of the later 1960s found the going considerably tougher. Among their releases of the period, “The Composer” is an interesting, if less well remembered, part of the story, brought to fruition by its writer and producer, Motown master Smokey Robinson.

Diana Ross and the Supremes, as they had been billed since 1967, may now not have been guaranteed pop chart-toppers every time. But they were still able to make major soul-pop crossovers with almost every release. ....

“The Composer” combined prominent strings and piano with the increasingly funky groove of the day, and was billed as a single to the trio even though it was the Andantes, not Mary Wilson and Cindy Birdsong, accompanying Diana Ross. It debuted on Bestselling Rhythm & Blues Singles for the week of May 10, 1969 at No.25, but peaked only four places higher.

The ambitious sentiment of the lyric was one that surely few writers but Robinson would even have attempted. “You may not what quarter notes are, or what I mean by four to the bar now,” he wrote. “Such musical terms may be Greek to your ears, but deep down inside of me, you have created a melody.” ...

Mary Wilson pulled no punches when she wrote about “The Composer” and its follow-up, “No Matter What Sign You Are,”... “That these records charted so poorly compared to our biggest hits, was due in part to the fact that, as several critics have since pointed out, they did not sound like ‘Supremes records.’”

According to The Complete Motown Singles Vol. 9, “The Composer” sold a “mere” 200,000 copies. Such were the Supremes’ standards that their idea of failure would have been spectacular success for others.

https://www.udiscovermusic.com/stories/diana-ross-supremes-the-composer-song/

reese
05-10-2021, 02:03 PM
It is not a fave of mine but I don't think it is a bad recording. I listened to it enough that I can still sing along. :D

Bluebrock
05-10-2021, 02:26 PM
https://www.udiscovermusic.com/wp-content/uploads/2021/05/Supremes-Composer.jpg

The Composer is not a favorite of many fans, but I have always liked it, so there !!! :) I'm an instrumental freak, and this article mentions the prominent strings and hard piano. That may be what turns me on to the song.


By Paul Sexton

The good times for the Supremes were so very good, that it was even harder for them to take when some of their singles of the later 1960s found the going considerably tougher. Among their releases of the period, “The Composer” is an interesting, if less well remembered, part of the story, brought to fruition by its writer and producer, Motown master Smokey Robinson.

Diana Ross and the Supremes, as they had been billed since 1967, may now not have been guaranteed pop chart-toppers every time. But they were still able to make major soul-pop crossovers with almost every release. ....

“The Composer” combined prominent strings and piano with the increasingly funky groove of the day, and was billed as a single to the trio even though it was the Andantes, not Mary Wilson and Cindy Birdsong, accompanying Diana Ross. It debuted on Bestselling Rhythm & Blues Singles for the week of May 10, 1969 at No.25, but peaked only four places higher.

The ambitious sentiment of the lyric was one that surely few writers but Robinson would even have attempted. “You may not what quarter notes are, or what I mean by four to the bar now,” he wrote. “Such musical terms may be Greek to your ears, but deep down inside of me, you have created a melody.” ...

Mary Wilson pulled no punches when she wrote about “The Composer” and its follow-up, “No Matter What Sign You Are,”... “That these records charted so poorly compared to our biggest hits, was due in part to the fact that, as several critics have since pointed out, they did not sound like ‘Supremes records.’”

https://www.udiscovermusic.com/stories/diana-ross-supremes-the-composer-song/

I don't hate it but it is probably my least favourite Supremes single of the 60's. It's nice, but not a good choice for a single.

Boogiedown
05-10-2021, 03:20 PM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V6pm1hwtsrQ

it would be nice if there were an instrumental b side because that imo is where the pay off is, its chock full of every bell and whistle. hey hey , hey hey lol!

The arrangement is busy, stop and go, and instruments are in and out and all over the place which makes it fun and interesting , but the record is not, imo, pretty [including Ross' voice).

songs best part 1:22-1:25:)
.

Ollie9
05-10-2021, 05:25 PM
It’s criminal that an average album track such as “Composer” was deemed good enough for single release while the ‘Love Child’ album remained choc full of potential hits.
I guess a new album [[LTSSI) though weak, would generate a lot more of the green stuff.

RanRan79
05-10-2021, 05:52 PM
I love this song. Case of great album track, poor choice of single. While I certainly disagree with Ollie on "The Composer" being "average", I do agree that releasing singles from the LC album made so much more sense than going with this one in March. I think with different mixes, "Keep An Eye", "Evening Train" and "I'll Set You Free" were quality candidates for single release.

copley
05-10-2021, 09:15 PM
Thankfully it never got a UK release!

jobucats
05-10-2021, 10:22 PM
"The Composer" is actually one of my favorite DRATS singles. But then again, my tastes are somewhat not like most people [[ex."Ask Any Girl which seems to be a fan favorite is my least favorite on both of the albums on which it appears.) To me, "The Composer" is orchestrated wonderfully and the mix of the voices [[yes, I know it's the Andantes) in the track makes listening to it over and over a joy to me. The drawback is that it doesn't sound like it was recorded in Detroit. Great song by Smokey.

Jaap
05-11-2021, 01:22 AM
I really like the last line of the article [[which is missing in the article text posted on line): << According to The Complete Motown Singles Vol. 9, “The Composer” sold a “mere” 200,000 copies. Such were the Supremes’ standards that their idea of failure would have been spectacular success for others. >>

milven
05-11-2021, 09:19 AM
I really like the last line of the article [[which is missing in the article text posted on line): << According to The Complete Motown Singles Vol. 9, “The Composer” sold a “mere” 200,000 copies. Such were the Supremes’ standards that their idea of failure would have been spectacular success for others. >>

You are right. My bad. I just corrected my post to include that line. The Supremes' standard for success seemed to be much higher than other artists by Berry, critics, and even fans.

I remember NO MATTER being released while COMPOSER was still fairly high on charts. I don't remember if it was still climbing, stalled, or moving down. I wonder if Berry rush released NO MATTER to compete with Aquarius.

I'm glad that some others here like the song and the orchestration of the song. MOSOGOTAM has done excellent extended versions of Motown Classics. His extended version of THE COMPOSER highlights the great orchestration and brings up the three part background harmony.



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3Bxt7ECXjuM

Ollie9
05-11-2021, 09:49 AM
You are right. My bad. I just corrected my post to include that line. The Supremes' standard for success seemed to be much higher than other artists by Berry, critics, and even fans.

I remember NO MATTER being released while COMPOSER was still fairly high on charts. I don't remember if it was still climbing, stalled, or moving down. I wonder if Berry rush released NO MATTER to compete with Aquarius.

I'm glad that some others here like the song and the orchestration of the song. MOSOGOTAM has done excellent extended versions of Motown Classics. His extended version of THE COMPOSER highlights the great orchestration and brings up the three part background harmony.



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3Bxt7ECXjuM

It’s a nice enough song in a fluffy kind of way, but can see clearly why it didn’t crack the top twenty. It just doesn’t leap out at you.. This and “The Weight” have always been head scratchers for me. :confused:

lucky2012
05-11-2021, 10:15 AM
You are right. My bad. I just corrected my post to include that line. The Supremes' standard for success seemed to be much higher than other artists by Berry, critics, and even fans.

I remember NO MATTER being released while COMPOSER was still fairly high on charts. I don't remember if it was still climbing, stalled, or moving down. I wonder if Berry rush released NO MATTER to compete with Aquarius.

I'm glad that some others here like the song and the orchestration of the song. MOSOGOTAM has done excellent extended versions of Motown Classics. His extended version of THE COMPOSER highlights the great orchestration and brings up the three part background harmony.



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3Bxt7ECXjuM

The Composer, No Matter What Sign You Are and even The Young Folks [[a couple of times) were played on LA Pop radio. I remember a DJ remarking, before he played NMWSYA, "despite all the rumors about Diana Ross leaving the Supremes, Motown keeps releasing new records"!

sup_fan
05-11-2021, 11:58 AM
both Composer and Sign barely made a blip on the charts. they both only charted for 6 weeks, which is incredibly short.

Breathtaking guy did 8 weeks
Your wonderful sweet love 8 weeks
I'm gonna let my heart do the walking 14 weeks

marybrewster
05-11-2021, 04:42 PM
I'll take COMPOSER over SHAME any day. How that made Top 10 is beyond me. The lyrics are ridiculous.

Ollie9
05-11-2021, 05:25 PM
I'll take COMPOSER over SHAME any day. How that made Top 10 is beyond me. The lyrics are ridiculous.

Homemade jam certainly lost its appeal. Those lyrics have a lot to answer for. :eek:

RanRan79
05-11-2021, 09:39 PM
It’s a nice enough song in a fluffy kind of way, but can see clearly why it didn’t crack the top twenty. It just doesn’t leap out at you.. This and “The Weight” have always been head scratchers for me. :confused:

I hate "The Weight". The two groups did not add anything to that great song, nor did they do it justice. But I agree with you about it and "The Composer". Makes no sense to release them as singles.

RanRan79
05-11-2021, 09:43 PM
I'll take COMPOSER over SHAME any day. How that made Top 10 is beyond me. The lyrics are ridiculous.

While it's easy for some of us to roll our eyes at "Shame" now, back then, I imagine, the novelty of it was enough to send people out to get it and radio to play it where it was an across the board top 10 hit. And while the lyrics are nauseating, the track does- as Ollie puts it- jumps out at the listener. It's very radio friendly. But I've never liked it from the first time I heard it. Never.

Interesting note, I love the original version that went unreleased for so long. The lyrics still stunk, but that track is dope. I often play it, tuning out the ridiculous lyrics.

nomis
05-11-2021, 09:57 PM
I'll take COMPOSER over SHAME any day. How that made Top 10 is beyond me. The lyrics are ridiculous.

I would take even "Surfer Boy" over "The Composer"...I'll get my coat

RanRan79
05-11-2021, 11:03 PM
I would take even "Surfer Boy" over "The Composer"...I'll get my coat

Don't let the door hit ya where the good Lord split ya!:p

Ollie9
05-12-2021, 06:09 AM
While it's easy for some of us to roll our eyes at "Shame" now, back then, I imagine, the novelty of it was enough to send people out to get it and radio to play it where it was an across the board top 10 hit. And while the lyrics are nauseating, the track does- as Ollie puts it- jumps out at the listener. It's very radio friendly. But I've never liked it from the first time I heard it. Never.

Interesting note, I love the original version that went unreleased for so long. The lyrics still stunk, but that track is dope. I often play it, tuning out the ridiculous lyrics.

They were sticking to the BG adage that a good song should tell a story. Even if in this case the tale was a little daft.
I have always thought “I’m Living In Shame”. a decent song. It has a strong driving, commercial sounding melody and a committed vocal from Diana. All in all it’s as you point out, very radio friendly. “Composer sounds a ‘tad lame in comparison.
I just wish the line about dying while making homemade jam could have been replaced with something a little less comical. :D

floyjoy678
05-12-2021, 07:20 AM
Heard the phone ring, found out Mama passed away just this past spring....problem solved.

For me, Love Child was the end of good singles for me until Jean came in. Everything in between I really didn't like, even Someday We'll Be Together. While I don't hate that significant final DRATS single, it rarely gets played compared to all the pre-68 singles. Living in Shame only did as well as it did because it was riding off the success of Love Child.

Ollie9
05-12-2021, 09:11 AM
Heard the phone ring, found out Mama passed away just this past spring....problem solved. .

Sorry floy, but i’m not convinced. Don’t give up the day job anytime soon. :rolleyes:

sup_fan
05-12-2021, 11:36 AM
i agree that Shame has strong production values. the backing track is hot, very catchy and sounds great on radio. and the title i'm sure generated all sorts of interest - what scandalous thing could Diana be ashamed of?!?!?! lol And while the overall lyric is a bit melodramatic, it's really the dumb last verse that truly kills it. and if you're not listening too closely to the radio, you might miss that and so that could help explain why the song charted as high as it did

floyjoy678
05-12-2021, 11:39 AM
Sorry floy, but i’m not convinced. Don’t give up the day job anytime soon. :rolleyes:

But...but...that was my ticket to stardom right there...now I'm back to being "no hit Floyjoy".

RanRan79
05-12-2021, 11:40 AM
Agree, the homemade jam verse is a song destroyer. I'd add to that the "Mama I miss you" chorus and the "Mama, Mama can you hear me" as taking the annoyance factor over the top. With some re-working, I think the subject matter would've been a great song. Makes me wonder what "Shame" might have been in the hands of Norman Whitfield.

RanRan79
05-12-2021, 11:41 AM
But...but...that was my ticket to stardom right there...now I'm back to being "no hit Floyjoy".

Hey, you hit #5 r&b and #16 pop in the US and #9 in the UK. You'll always have that.:cool:

Boogiedown
05-12-2021, 12:32 PM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GGrKPWWjhZY

This the first time The Supremes departed from originals of their own and presented a retread as a single .... [?]

I guess Smokey felt he hadn't invested in this song to its full potential. Very much improved but throwing everything but the kitchen sink at it couldn't remedy it enough imo.... Lots of instruments and editing in the remake ....I bet it was an expensive recording session...

mowest
05-12-2021, 12:47 PM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GGrKPWWjhZY

This the first time The Supremes departed from originals of their own and presented a retread as a single .... [?]

I guess Smokey felt he hadn't invested in this song to its full potential. Very much improved but throwing everything but the kitchen sink at it couldn't remedy it enough imo.... Lots of instruments and editing in the remake ....I bet it was an expensive recording session...

Another “retread” came in 1972 with the release of “Your Wonderful Sweet Sweet Love,” originally recorded by Kim Weston in 1966 but kept in the can until 2005.

sup_fan
05-12-2021, 01:43 PM
i think the style and sound of the original Composer is preferred. Not saying it would have charted significantly better. But the slower pace and more thoughtful approach let's the lyrics take on a bit more meaning.

Ollie9
05-12-2021, 02:29 PM
But...but...that was my ticket to stardom right there...now I'm back to being "no hit Floyjoy".

I get a thrill when I hear your voice now Floy...;););)

Ollie9
05-12-2021, 02:34 PM
Not saying it would have charted significantly better. But the slower pace and more thoughtful approach let's the lyrics take on a bit more meaning.

I’m not entirely sure they deserve that much scrutiny sup.

144man
05-12-2021, 02:52 PM
Funny how, even after all this time, the lyric Homemade Jam jars.

sup_fan
05-12-2021, 03:58 PM
I’m not entirely sure they deserve that much scrutiny sup.

lol they're definitely very "smokey" lyrics. but it think these lyric are better than He's My Sunny Boy with the the Idaho to Illinois and corduroy and mohair lol.

I'm by no means saying these are the best lyric to a sup song. frankly i tend to NOT like much of Smokey's tunes because of the silly and almost inane lyric. Treat Me Nice John Henry, Sunny Boy, Sweet Thing, Then. and you could put Floy Joy and Precious Little Things in there too, although i like both of them much better than these DRATS era Smokey tunes.

fortunately it seems that his hokey lyrics don't plague the FJ album as much as might have been expected

Ollie9
05-12-2021, 04:07 PM
Funny how, even after all this time, the lyric Homemade Jam jars.

That’s a good one......I like it.

SatansBlues
05-12-2021, 05:20 PM
Funny how, even after all this time, the lyric Homemade Jam jars.

My mother was from the south but moved to Michigan and every year she would go grape picking and make homemade jam/jelly. The lyric resonated with me. I know I'm one of the odd ducks out but I LOVE the Supreme's songs of 68 and 69. I think in part its because I rarely heard them on the radio while growing up [[80s) and didn't understand what was going on within the group and Motown when these songs were made. They do have a place in my heart and I enjoy them more than some of their #1 songs like the Happening and IHAS.

sup_fan
05-12-2021, 06:11 PM
My mother was from the south but moved to Michigan and every year she would go grape picking and make homemade jam/jelly. The lyric resonated with me. I know I'm one of the odd ducks out but I LOVE the Supreme's songs of 68 and 69. I think in part its because I rarely heard them on the radio while growing up [[80s) and didn't understand what was going on within the group and Motown when these songs were made. They do have a place in my heart and I enjoy them more than some of their #1 songs like the Happening and IHAS.

love all of the different points of view! that's what makes this forum fun. one man's trash is another man's treasure :)

lucky2012
05-12-2021, 07:20 PM
https://soulfuldetroit.com/images/misc/quote_icon.png Originally Posted by 144man https://soulfuldetroit.com/images/buttons/viewpost-right.png [[https://soulfuldetroit.com/showthread.php?p=627005#post627005)
Funny how, even after all this time, the lyric Homemade Jam jars.


That’s a good one......I like it.

Lol. I like it even better now that you've brought it to my attention. :rolleyes:

nomis
05-12-2021, 07:41 PM
i got a Smokey Robinson greatest hits cd the other week..I wish DMC had recorded "If You Can Want" in '68..it would have been a great track for them..

milven
05-13-2021, 09:32 AM
love all of the different points of view! that's what makes this forum fun. one man's trash is another man's treasure :)

How true. I guess the Supremes' Composer is my treasure. I woke up with the song in my head this morning and played MOSGOTAM's extended version in this thread, which highlights the instruments. I think it is the instrumental arrangement that is my hook. I listened to Smokey's version and it did nothing for me.

Different strokes for...

milven
05-13-2021, 09:41 AM
My mother was from the south but moved to Michigan and every year she would go grape picking and make homemade jam/jelly. The lyric resonated with me. I know I'm one of the odd ducks out but I LOVE the Supreme's songs of 68 and 69. I think in part its because I rarely heard them on the radio while growing up [[80s) and didn't understand what was going on within the group and Motown when these songs were made. They do have a place in my heart and I enjoy them more than some of their #1 songs like the Happening and IHAS.

I am from a much older generation than you, and grew up with a mom who made home made jam, and almost everything from scratch. She never went grape picking but maybe shared my dad's grapes when he made home made wine.

I also like the the latter Supremes songs, although I now know that they were Diana songs without the Supremes. But, Someday, Love Child, Composer and a few others are favorites of mine

sup_fan
05-13-2021, 10:50 AM
How true. I guess the Supremes' Composer is my treasure. I woke up with the song in my head this morning and played MOSGOTAM's extended version in this thread, which highlights the instruments. I think it is the instrumental arrangement that is my hook. I listened to Smokey's version and it did nothing for me.

Different strokes for...

what's fun about their overall category is the huge amount of variety. i have so many playlists that pull in all sorts of different songs, based on all sorts of different definitions.

I enjoy, literally, about every recording. Solo and group material. The Composer, Girls, save Me a Star, love train, this is why i believe in you, etc. Of course there are songs that i play with MUCH more frequency or songs that are pulled into playlists MUCH more often.

But i still enjoy shuffling around. like while doing housework or on a car ride. so even the songs i "don't like" i still enjoy and still sing along loudly with lol

144man
05-13-2021, 03:09 PM
That’s a good one......I like it.

I'm not proud of the fact that it's taken me over 50 years to come up with that terrible pun:)

Spreadinglove21
05-13-2021, 08:17 PM
I like the production on the Composer, instrumentation sounds great, especially the strings. But the lyrics make this an underachieving sequel to I hear a Symphony.

Some years ago I brought a Supremes anthology CD to work as boss was out. One of my co workers' ears buzzed when The Composer came on. She loved it. Thought Diana Ross was sublime on it.

Ollie9
05-14-2021, 12:27 PM
I'm not proud of the fact that it's taken me over 50 years to come up with that terrible pun:)

The result speaks for itself in revealing the time and effort you must have taken to bring it to fruition. Well done you. :rolleyes:

marybrewster
05-14-2021, 02:46 PM
Is "cooking bread" a real thing?

marybrewster
05-14-2021, 02:51 PM
Is "cooking bread" a real thing?

For some reason, I've always visualized a loaf of white bread; like "baking bread".

But I think in this context, it would be like corn bread in a cast iron skillet? So maybe "cooking bread" is a thing, I've just never heard of it?

144man
05-14-2021, 05:20 PM
For some reason, I've always visualized a loaf of white bread; like "baking bread".

But I think in this context, it would be like corn bread in a cast iron skillet? So maybe "cooking bread" is a thing, I've just never heard of it?

"To cook - to prepare food by heating" [Concise Oxford Dictionary]
Remember lyricist Pam Sawyer is British.

vgalindo
05-14-2021, 07:26 PM
My mother was from the south but moved to Michigan and every year she would go grape picking and make homemade jam/jelly. The lyric resonated with me. I know I'm one of the odd ducks out but I LOVE the Supreme's songs of 68 and 69. I think in part its because I rarely heard them on the radio while growing up [[80s) and didn't understand what was going on within the group and Motown when these songs were made. They do have a place in my heart and I enjoy them more than some of their #1 songs like the Happening and IHAS.
I do too. I now listen to their Greatest hits volume 3 more than the first greatest hits. And I do like the Composer very much.

PeaceNHarmony
05-14-2021, 08:59 PM
I do too. I now listen to their Greatest hits volume 3 more than the first greatest hits. And I do like the Composer very much.Ain't that the truth?? Maybe it's the less-played angle but GH111 I love.

jim aka jtigre99
05-15-2021, 09:34 AM
The Diana Ross & The Supremes era really had spotty chart action, aside from the 2 chart toppers-Love Child in 1968 and Someday We'll Be Together in 1969.Once it became DRATS, there was virtually Andantes in the background by themselves. Much of this would be attributed to HDH leaving the company. HDH and the Supremes were a wonderful match. By the time Forever Came Today was released they had left and this last HDH composition only reached #28. Motown was trying new writers, new sounds and backgrounds without Mary & Cindy. The sound seemed sort of rushed and incomplete. Some Things You Never Get Used To was a bit quick, disjointed and showed none of the artistry that Ross and Ashford & Simpson would later have and it hit #30. I'm Livin' In Shame sort of told a story and benefited greatly from Love Child, so it hitting top 10 makes sense in that reasoning. The Composer was like Some Things, it had a rushed quality to it, the backgrounds seemed anonymous and colorless, far different from say Where Did Our Love Go where it played an important part in the sound. It hit #27, but it really doesn't catch your ears the way you would expect a pairing of a great writer and a great group. Smokey did much better with the 70's Supremes and Floy Joy in 1972. No Matter What Sign You Are seemed more catchy to my ears and I can see why they were going after the astrological craze at the time. Still, it only hit #31. The lyrics were not the greatest and Ross screeching and cat calling is a far cry from the sound we heard years prior. Having the Andantes just sing the title and all of the signs was pretty pedestrian writing. I would guess the only real time they focused was when Gordy got the Clan together to make sure they had a hit after HDH left and for Ross' swan song to exit as a hit. But then, they also had gone beyond being hit makers and were now "established stars". Gordy may have been more focused on their television and touring schedule as they were already established and could make money that way. But, really, the DRATS songs have a rushed,frantic sound to them especially The Composer and Some Things .

Boogiedown
05-15-2021, 01:03 PM
^^Jim , your summation seems spot on:cool:^^

Ollie9
05-15-2021, 05:32 PM
TheSome Things You Never Get Used To was a bit quick, disjointed and showed none of the artistry that Ross and Ashford & Simpson would later have and it hit #30. I'm Livin' In Shame sort of told a story and benefited greatly from Love Child, so it hitting top 10 makes sense in that reasoning. No Matter What Sign You Are seemed more catchy to my ears and I can see why they were going after the astrological craze at the time. Still, it only hit #31. The lyrics were not the greatest and Ross screeching and cat calling is a far cry from the sound we heard years prior. Having the Andantes just sing the title and all of the signs was pretty pedestrian writing. I would guess the only real time they focused was when Gordy got the Clan together to make sure they had a hit after HDH left and for Ross' swan song to exit as a hit. But then, they also had gone beyond being hit makers and were now "established stars". Gordy may have been more focused on their television and touring schedule as they were already established and could make money that way. But, really, the DRATS songs have a rushed,frantic sound to them especially The Composer and Some Things .

I agree about “I’m Living In “Shame” doing well on the coattails of “Love Child”.
As regards “No Matter What Sign”, i personally don’t hear any screeching on the song, but consider it one of Diana’s most exciting vocals on a single release from that period.

Bluebrock
05-16-2021, 02:54 AM
The Diana Ross & The Supremes era really had spotty chart action, aside from the 2 chart toppers-Love Child in 1968 and Someday We'll Be Together in 1969.Once it became DRATS, there was virtually Andantes in the background by themselves. Much of this would be attributed to HDH leaving the company. HDH and the Supremes were a wonderful match. By the time Forever Came Today was released they had left and this last HDH composition only reached #28. Motown was trying new writers, new sounds and backgrounds without Mary & Cindy. The sound seemed sort of rushed and incomplete. Some Things You Never Get Used To was a bit quick, disjointed and showed none of the artistry that Ross and Ashford & Simpson would later have and it hit #30. I'm Livin' In Shame sort of told a story and benefited greatly from Love Child, so it hitting top 10 makes sense in that reasoning. The Composer was like Some Things, it had a rushed quality to it, the backgrounds seemed anonymous and colorless, far different from say Where Did Our Love Go where it played an important part in the sound. It hit #27, but it really doesn't catch your ears the way you would expect a pairing of a great writer and a great group. Smokey did much better with the 70's Supremes and Floy Joy in 1972. No Matter What Sign You Are seemed more catchy to my ears and I can see why they were going after the astrological craze at the time. Still, it only hit #31. The lyrics were not the greatest and Ross screeching and cat calling is a far cry from the sound we heard years prior. Having the Andantes just sing the title and all of the signs was pretty pedestrian writing. I would guess the only real time they focused was when Gordy got the Clan together to make sure they had a hit after HDH left and for Ross' swan song to exit as a hit. But then, they also had gone beyond being hit makers and were now "established stars". Gordy may have been more focused on their television and touring schedule as they were already established and could make money that way. But, really, the DRATS songs have a rushed,frantic sound to them especially The Composer and Some Things .
Where is she "screeching and cat calling" in the song?
I don't hear it anywhere.

jim aka jtigre99
05-16-2021, 01:07 PM
Where is she "screeching and cat calling" in the song?
I don't hear it anywhere.
I hear it when they are doing the signs and she is screeching Oww in response along with yeah, yeah,yeah.I am not saying it is horrible but not the usual Ross vocals

Bluebrock
05-16-2021, 01:59 PM
I hear it when they are doing the signs and she is screeching Oww in response along with yeah, yeah,yeah.I am not saying it is horrible but not the usual Ross vocals

I quite like that part. I wouldn't describe it as "screeching and cat calling" but i guess we all hear things differently.

jim aka jtigre99
05-16-2021, 02:18 PM
I quite like that part. I wouldn't describe it as "screeching and cat calling" but i guess we all hear things differently. I didn't say I dislike it but to my ears the screeching of Owww was probably something that the general public was not used to hearing Ross do. She certainly had a distinctive voice that was very pliable in various genres. I am guessing she used to the owws to sound more in tune with the sound of the song-more psychedelic and rock oriented.Just that the public was probably used to hearing her oooh like she started Baby Love with rather than the owwws that punctuated this song. Her vocals here are probably the most full after Love is like an Itchin' in My Heart. The public is very fickle they want you to change after you have had success with one sound but then will criticize you that you don't sound like you used to.

Boogiedown
05-16-2021, 03:24 PM
I didn't say I dislike it but to my ears the screeching of Owww was probably something that the general public was not used to hearing Ross do. She certainly had a distinctive voice that was very pliable in various genres. I am guessing she used to the owws to sound more in tune with the sound of the song-more psychedelic and rock oriented.Just that the public was probably used to hearing her oooh like she started Baby Love with rather than the owwws that punctuated this song. Her vocals here are probably the most full after Love is like an Itchin' in My Heart. The public is very fickle they want you to change after you have had success with one sound but then will criticize you that you don't sound like you used to.

Not screeches , maybe more like squeals...?

We might blame these Diana owwws as being the influence for Mary's use of them on RED HOT....



....well, except that Mary was nowhere near this 'Supremes' recording session....:p

Boogiedown
05-16-2021, 03:51 PM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d76SGvjys2U

There's much about it that's annoying [and some not) ..... the drumming???

Ollie9
05-17-2021, 01:55 AM
Jay Leno was a massive fan of Diana’s owww. He even asked her to recreate the owww from “Ain’t No Mountain High Enough” when he interviewed her in 95.
I truly believe no one does an owww quite as good as M’s Ross. They sound rather sexy.

jim aka jtigre99
05-17-2021, 07:24 AM
Ow! This was definitely not where I was wanting this to go. I was just noting the change in Ross' vocals and the hurried, rush tempos of the songs without the crafting of HDH may have contributed to sales not being as stellar as during the Supremes' era. Ross' vocals changed as she was exploring, I mean listen to her breathless hiccup during the TCB era when singing live. As far as Mary's vocals on Red Hot, the song was clearly influenced by James Brown and that is who I think she was influenced by.
I just was pointing out the differences in these songs from their HDH era previously.I think the hurried rush sound on some of these songs are really the glaring difference and I wonder what Motown was thinking with some of this, what type of new sound were they trying to give DRATS.

Bluebrock
05-17-2021, 08:44 AM
Ow! This was definitely not where I was wanting this to go. I was just noting the change in Ross' vocals and the hurried, rush tempos of the songs without the crafting of HDH may have contributed to sales not being as stellar as during the Supremes' era. Ross' vocals changed as she was exploring, I mean listen to her breathless hiccup during the TCB era when singing live. As far as Mary's vocals on Red Hot, the song was clearly influenced by James Brown and that is who I think she was influenced by.
I just was pointing out the differences in these songs from their HDH era previously.I think the hurried rush sound on some of these songs are really the glaring difference and I wonder what Motown was thinking with some of this, what type of new sound were they trying to give DRATS.


Hey. You have not said or done anything wrong. You merely voiced your opinion. Personally i disagree with it but you have every right to have an opinion.
Not many fans have a high opinion of nmwsya but i have always enjoyed it, but i don't care for The Composer.
Different strokes.......

Boogiedown
05-17-2021, 01:06 PM
No fowl. Its all harmless dissecting of songs and their nuances. The owwws in NMWSYA , really don't add or subtract to the song's overall quality. They're just kinda there. Not sure why Diana goes 'ooowww' as the 'Supremes' rattle off the horoscope signs :confused: ....but she does ....

Ollie9
05-17-2021, 02:48 PM
No fowl. Its all harmless dissecting of songs and their nuances. The owwws in NMWSYA , really don't add or subtract to the song's overall quality. They're just kinda there. Not sure why Diana goes 'ooowww' as the 'Supremes' rattle off the horoscope signs :confused: ....but she does ....

If I had to choose between Diana not going owww and going owww, i would choose she went owww every time ....But that’s just me.

johnjeb
05-17-2021, 03:56 PM
No fowl. Its all harmless dissecting of songs and their nuances. The owwws in NMWSYA , really don't add or subtract to the song's overall quality. They're just kinda there. Not sure why Diana goes 'ooowww' as the 'Supremes' rattle off the horoscope signs :confused: ....but she does ....

I'm not a fan of the 'owww' screech, particularly at the start of the song. The whole intro is annoying, actually. I think the song should have just started with the lyrics: "The moon shines bright above..." Rattling off the zodiac signs along with the 'owww' in the middle of the song is less jarring, and adds a little excitement.

I feel the same about "Some Things". The background shouting the title of the song at the start is annoying. Saving it for the middle would have been a nice surprise.

NMWSYA is a so-so song for DRATS, even if it was just an album cut. I think BG should have saved it for the J5. Not sure which song between Composer or Sign I think is better, or worse. When Ed introduced them my jaw dropped when he said the new single was Sign when I expected him to say The Composer. I thought they looked silly, overall. I was more than ready for Diana to leave the group, and real soon, although I hadn't heard anything about that at this point in 1969.

Spreadinglove21
05-17-2021, 07:54 PM
Diana Ross' "Ows" are alright, but other singers do it better. Diana Ross is top of the class with "oooh-oooh" and "Boy" and "hey".

floyjoy678
05-17-2021, 07:58 PM
I was more than ready for Diana to leave the group, and real soon, although I hadn't heard anything about that at this point in 1969.

I think a lot of people felt this way including the Supremes themselves and Motown. Looking back if I were Gordy I would have had Diana go solo after Love Child. Maybe have her do a few final gigs with Mary and Cindy around when TCB aired and then have her be on her way. Have Mary and Cindy chill out for a little and take a long vacation if they still haven't found Diana's replacement.

Boogiedown
05-18-2021, 01:18 AM
If I had to choose between Diana not going owww and going owww, i would choose she went owww every time ....But that’s just me.

Ha did you mean this to read funny Ollie, owww owww owww.

So, what other songs does Diana go ooow on??:confused: We need a Diana Ross owww song list !!




Spreadinglove21 [[https://soulfuldetroit.com/member.php?13074-Spreadinglove21)

https://soulfuldetroit.com/images/statusicon/user-offline.png
Diana Ross' "Ows" are alright, but other singers do it better. Diana Ross is top of the class with "oooh-oooh" and "Boy" and "hey".







funny, I agree . Her 'boys' are excellent.

Boogiedown
05-18-2021, 01:22 AM
I'm not a fan of the 'owww' screech, particularly at the start of the song. The whole intro is annoying, actually. I think the song should have just started with the lyrics: "The moon shines bright above..." Rattling off the zodiac signs along with the 'owww' in the middle of the song is less jarring, and adds a little excitement.

I feel the same about "Some Things". The background shouting the title of the song at the start is annoying. Saving it for the middle would have been a nice surprise.

NMWSYA is a so-so song for DRATS, even if it was just an album cut. I think BG should have saved it for the J5..

Its too silly for the J5 :p

Ollie9
05-18-2021, 04:43 AM
Ha did you mean this to read funny Ollie, owww owww owww.

So, what other songs does Diana go ooow on??:confused: We need a Diana Ross owww song list !

I never attempt to be funny Boogie. :rolleyes:
Oh my goodness, songs that Diana goes owww on. It’s a little early in the morning for such esoteric conversation, but i will have a go.
“Happy To See You Again”, and “Surrender for sure. Erm..” I’m A Winner” possibly. Songs with the Temptations?.

Boogiedown
05-18-2021, 11:04 AM
I never attempt to be funny Boogie. :rolleyes:
Oh my goodness, songs that Diana goes owww on. It’s a little early in the morning for such esoteric conversation, but i will have a go.
“Happy To See You Again”, and “Surrender for sure. Erm..” I’m A Winner” possibly. Songs with the Temptations?.


Ha that's funny that the 'owww' is the pay off for listening through that HAPPY tune.

Ollie9
05-18-2021, 12:10 PM
Ha that's funny that the 'owww' is the pay off for listening through that HAPPY tune.

“Happy To See You” has a very different style of owww then “NMWSYA”. It’s more of a growled owww then your straight forward, no holes barred owww..
Having said that i still find it equally as enjoyable. It would be fun to have a recording of every owww Diana has ever made.....Perhaps one day.