He's My Man Russell Harry Show

[luckyluckyme]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7wTdVT7WYm0

[sup_fan]

great to see these gowns in such clear definition. i like the gowns but the accessories have got to go.

the supremes at this time were trying to re-establish themselves. they had a hot dance tune and Scherrie is amazing. but to then throw on these old fashioned hat and fans?!?!? not the right image to attract the young record buyers and show them that the Supremes are relevant again

[Bluebrock]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7wTdVT7WYm0

This keeps getting posted on youtube and then gets promptly removed for some reason.
The girls look great, but the vocals are not that great.

[blackguy69]

Compared to the Johnny Carson appearance thus is a lot better

[TYK1986]

It probably is the clearest live version I've seen on youtube. Never noticed that Cindy's dress is a different colour. For some reason I thought she wore the same coloured dress as Scherrie in another clip of them singing He's my Man. I like the single but think it never sounded as good live.

[blackguy69]

Actually I like the hats and fans
great to see these gowns in such clear definition. i like the gowns but the accessories have got to go.

the supremes at this time were trying to re-establish themselves. they had a hot dance tune and Scherrie is amazing. but to then throw on these old fashioned hat and fans?!?!? not the right image to attract the young record buyers and show them that the Supremes are relevant again

[sup_fan]

blackguy - i'm gonna comment on both your posts :)

good god yes! lolol the Tonight Show appearance was, IMO, a train wreck. they sounded really weak. the choreography was a mess. those giant ballgowns the wrong look. the tonight show band sounded bad. IMO it's among [[if not the worst) tv appearance by the group

they sound really much much better here. the mic balance is better as is the band.

but yeah lol i just had a problem with the overall stylistic direction during the MSC years. i think the giant ballgowns were so not the right design. i think the idea for the Dream sequence was outdated. i never liked the "jealousy" act they did during HMM. I'm not sure who was thinking all of this up or who was the real decision maker but i'm just pretty much no no no lolol

[sup_fan]

It probably is the clearest live version I've seen on youtube. Never noticed that Cindy's dress is a different colour. For some reason I thought she wore the same coloured dress as Scherrie in another clip of them singing He's my Man. I like the single but think it never sounded as good live.

it's great to see them in such a clear appearance!! i think in the Sammy Live clip you could sort of make out the different colors. if you really examined it. there's a clip of MSS in these doing Walking and impossible to tell the different color there. In mary's book they purposely posed Scherrie's gown twice in order to make a trio of dresses. I've heard that these gowns are in very delicate condition.

[Bluebrock]

It probably is the clearest live version I've seen on youtube. Never noticed that Cindy's dress is a different colour. For some reason I thought she wore the same coloured dress as Scherrie in another clip of them singing He's my Man. I like the single but think it never sounded as good live.

Agreed. I am still awaiting their performances on Top of the Pops and Supersonic which were performed during the same tour. I have never seen either performance since their original broadcasts.

[Bluebrock]

great to see these gowns in such clear definition. i like the gowns but the accessories have got to go.

the supremes at this time were trying to re-establish themselves. they had a hot dance tune and Scherrie is amazing. but to then throw on these old fashioned hat and fans?!?!? not the right image to attract the young record buyers and show them that the Supremes are relevant again

They all looked sensational, and i loved their enthusiasm. Vocally they improved a little from a very dodgy start to the song.

[floyjoy678]

The issue is the microphone levels. Mary's is turned up because she's singing lead during the verses so we hear her singing the bottom harmony prominently during the chorus where we should be hearing Scherrie more up front. I can't even hear Cindy.

[blackguy69]

After looking at it again. Scherrie needed to be and especially Cindy louder. But I did enjoy the chat afterwards.

[Thornton]

The issue is the microphone levels. Mary's is turned up because she's singing lead during the verses so we hear her singing the bottom harmony prominently during the chorus where we should be hearing Scherrie more up front. I can't even hear Cindy.

Agreed. I think this song never sounded quite right live because the mic levels weren't adjusted as they were in the studio. Shame since MSC had such a unique blend. I do like this performance though. I also like how Cindy jumped right into the interview, similar to how she did on Soul Train.

[sup_fan]

the 3 part harmony in the studio version was excellent. even though this isn't my fav Sup song, i will admit the studio harmonies of MSC were stupendous.

it also strikes me in the live version how Scherrie should have been the predominant lead on this tune. on the studio version Mary's voice, while not my first choice for the lead, still comes across with some agility. but in the live versions i've heard on tapes and these various tv clips, mary's voice seems to bog down. like she's pushing to project but almost in danger of lagging behind.

another way to look at it is listen to Driving Wheel. good lord there's a lot going on in that song. the Hollands have the musical track barreling forward like a runaway train. But scherrie just explodes through the clutter with crisp enunciation and powerful delivery.

HMM is another heavily loaded backing track and the live versions just feel like Mary is about to be smothered by the sound

[Bluebrock]

the 3 part harmony in the studio version was excellent. even though this isn't my fav Sup song, i will admit the studio harmonies of MSC were stupendous.

it also strikes me in the live version how Scherrie should have been the predominant lead on this tune. on the studio version Mary's voice, while not my first choice for the lead, still comes across with some agility. but in the live versions i've heard on tapes and these various tv clips, mary's voice seems to bog down. like she's pushing to project but almost in danger of lagging behind.

another way to look at it is listen to Driving Wheel. good lord there's a lot going on in that song. the Hollands have the musical track barreling forward like a runaway train. But scherrie just explodes through the clutter with crisp enunciation and powerful delivery.

HMM is another heavily loaded backing track and the live versions just feel like Mary is about to be smothered by the sound

You and i have said many times how much more suitable Scherrie's voice would have been as the predominant lead, but we are approaching 50 years too late for anyone to do anything about it!

[gordy_hunk]

Thanks for this amazing find.

I didn't know that the Russell Harty show had the Supremes singing live - so this is wonderful to see.

Russell Harty was an interesting character - even when he was slapped across the face by Grace Jones!

It was good to see the Supremes singing live on his show.

This performance was probably made in September 1975, and the quality is really superb.

[BobbyC]

I agree with Floyjoy. The bottom harmony voice should never sound louder than the higher part. I love Mary's voice on the lead part, but her mic is too loud to blend into anything. I don't even hear Cindy. Scherrie is okay here but not as fantastic as she usually sounds. I don't like the acting either--they are trying way too hard.

[RanRan79]

They look great and IMO this is the best live performance of the song. I agree with the others that Mary's mic is too loud during her background parts. They do sound great though on the harmony when they sing the word "low".

[BobbyC]

There is a live clip on Youtube of Labelle doing A Man in a Trenchcoat [[Voodoo) where Nona sings lead. It doesn't work at all IMO because Patti and Nona are almost tripping over each other, trying to lead and sing background at the same time. It just comes off as chaotic. I think it's the same thing on He's My Man. The volume for Mary on lead is fine but when she tries to blend back into the harmony part she just over-powers Cindy. I've also seen a clip of the 5th Dimension doing Aquarius live, but the group's alto Florence LaRue is pulled way up in front in the mix and it sounds terrible. Florence is a terrific singer but the bottom harmony should support the soprano voice, not over power it.

[blackguy69]

what they needed to do is turn up Scherrie’s and Cindy’s mic

[daviddh]

Agrees blackout.
A bit off but good but could be great

[daviddh]

Agreed blackguy. Above .

[Ollie9]

Roselyn Harty is a scream in his awkwardness. He should have gone on tour with them. :cool:

[marybrewster]

Roselyn Harty is a scream in his awkwardness. He should have gone on tour with them. :cool:

She was too busy chasing young boys to go on tour!

[marybrewster]

Consensus: do you consider this song a duet between Mary and Scherrie? I've often heard it referred to as such, but if you think about it, Mary has all the lines, Scherrie just has the "he's my man" lick.

[marybrewster]

Couple problems: first, "disco" never sounded all that spectacular live. This is a prime example. It's too big band.

Next, you've got three Supremes trying to do choreography on a stage that's the size of a bottle cap. All the twisting and turning looks awkward for such a small space.

The dresses are fine, but brown isn't the greatest color. I'm not sure what would have gone with black and red [[maroon?). Maybe purple would have been better?

[blackguy69]

I’ve always saw it as Mary doing the lead while Scherrie is leading the harmony
Consensus: do you consider this song a duet between Mary and Scherrie? I've often heard it referred to as such, but if you think about it, Mary has all the lines, Scherrie just has the "he's my man" lick.

[floyjoy678]

Yeah I always saw it more as a Mary lead.

[jim aka jtigre99]

Vocally, I think this was one of their best tv versions of He's My Man. Mary sings it much stronger than normal as opposed to her softer interpretations on tv and record. Granted, her mike is properly turned up as the lead but her vocals are strong, much like the way others lament that it should have been Scherrie as lead because the vocals should be stronger. This is so much better than their Tonight Show appearnce. Even with a smaller stage it doesn't appear as frantic as Tonight Show was.The "comedy" with the host is typical mid 70's schmaltz, that is how comedy usually was back then. I also agree that this is a Mary lead with Scherrie just singing He's My Man. If you think it is shared, than is Up The ladder a shared lead with Jean, Mary & Cindy? I think not. Still, very enjoyable clip.

[sup_fan]

mary does lead on the verses and scherrie does lead on the choruses

[blackguy69]

All 3 of them are doing the chorus she is just more prominent
mary does lead on the verses and scherrie does lead on the choruses

[sup_fan]

All 3 of them are doing the chorus she is just more prominent

well yes all three of them are singing but i believe Scherrie's would be considered the melody while C and M are harmonizing to her.

[Bluebrock]

mary does lead on the verses and scherrie does lead on the choruses

I would agree with that.

[blackguy69]

For us Supremes fans I can see that but for the general public it appears to them that it’s Mary singing lead
well yes all three of them are singing but i believe Scherrie's would be considered the melody while C and M are harmonizing to her.

[rod_rick]

Actually Mary needed to back of her mic so she wouldn't be so dominant. Mary learned or I should say practice this technique after she left the Supremes.

[rod_rick]

Actually Cindy is doing the melody line which is usually the middle depending on how you block the harmony. Cindy's mic should have been a little louder, Mary needed to back off her mic some to get a better blend. Mary pretty much lead the versus and Scherrie did the adlibs.. I really like the performance the ladies sound great and they look good as well but we must look at this with 1975 eyes and not 2021 eyes

[RanRan79]

Actually Mary needed to back of her mic so she wouldn't be so dominant.

That's what I was thinking, why didn't she pull back the mic for the harmony? I guess this was a precursor to what we were going to experience with the MSS lineup where even the background tried to sing the lead.:p

[TheMotownManiac]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7wTdVT7WYm0

thank you so much for posting this itÂ’s crystal clear and wonderful!

1975 EYES: .....it’s also video proof positive of the supreme’s demise. I know that there are people who are going to like it and there are people that are gonna think it’s wonderful that Mary has taken over the total lead of the song and that people think the dresses are classy and sexy and their head pieces are fabulous, IÂ’m just not one of them..

I just shake my head and wonder what they were thinking? To me, they look and behave like a C act trying to break into the business. I’m not sure if this is the worst performance of theirs IÂ’ve ever seen on television but it is among them. I really can’t believe it’s The Supremes. I never saw these outfits onstage, but they did HMM live a lot that I saw with the over-wrought routine. To me, they are trying too hard. This makes me sad to watch. Burying Scherrie says everything we need to know as to the how and why things went south. I’m not saying it’s good and I’m not saying it’s bad, what I am saying is I think it’s terrible if you’re trying to get popular. Maybe it’s art, maybe it’s above my head, but I know for sure it was not what the public was going to buy into, and it sure didn’t. It didn’t stop me from going to their shows, but they were flailing in a sea of pop acts that they couldn’t touch. Scherrie could have been presented as a Queen diva - as SOMETHING - something to take notice of. I don’t believe in the homogenized group because it didn’t have the goods to attract and hold public interest. I remember hearing touch, he’s my man, I guess I’ll miss the man, automatically sunshine and Nathan Jones and audiences didn’t know them or there was scant recognition. It appeared that the dwindling audiences were compromised of some die-hards and lots of folks who used to be fans. Those fans didn’t know anything but Stoned Love and weren’t that engaged. I Really think it was a mistake to allow Mary so much leadership on stage - and on singles. It was an uphill battle anyway, why make it worse? She would one day be a fine entertainer, but it took well over a dozen years after the group ended. I wanted so much for them to succeed. They wanted it very badly and they tried very hard.

[Bluebrock]

thank you so much for posting this itÂ’s crystal clear and wonderful!

1975 EYES: .....it’s also video proof positive of the supreme’s demise. I know that there are people who are going to like it and there are people that are gonna think it’s wonderful that Mary has taken over the total lead of the song and that people think the dresses are classy and sexy and their head pieces are fabulous, IÂ’m just not one of them..

I just shake my head and wonder what they were thinking? To me, they look and behave like a C act trying to break into the business. I’m not sure if this is the worst performance of theirs IÂ’ve ever seen on television but it is among them. I really can’t believe it’s The Supremes. I never saw these outfits onstage, but they did HMM live a lot that I saw with the over-wrought routine. To me, they are trying too hard. This makes me sad to watch. Burying Scherrie says everything we need to know as to the how and why things went south. I’m not saying it’s good and I’m not saying it’s bad, what I am saying is I think it’s terrible if you’re trying to get popular. Maybe it’s art, maybe it’s above my head, but I know for sure it was not what the public was going to buy into, and it sure didn’t. It didn’t stop me from going to their shows, but they were flailing in a sea of pop acts that they couldn’t touch. Scherrie could have been presented as a Queen diva - as SOMETHING - something to take notice of. I don’t believe in the homogenized group because it didn’t have the goods to attract and hold public interest. I remember hearing touch, he’s my man, I guess I’ll miss the man, automatically sunshine and Nathan Jones and audiences didn’t know them or there was scant recognition. It appeared that the dwindling audiences were compromised of some die-hards and lots of folks who used to be fans. Those fans didn’t know anything but Stoned Love and weren’t that engaged. I Really think it was a mistake to allow Mary so much leadership on stage - and on singles. It was an uphill battle anyway, why make it worse? She would one day be a fine entertainer, but it took well over a dozen years after the group ended. I wanted so much for them to succeed. They wanted it very badly and they tried very hard.
An excellent summary. I had just about lost interest in the group by this time. It was a disaster having Mary hogging the spotlight. She was stunningly beautiful but she had zero charisma and stage presence at this time, and that lead voice was never going to sell records to the pop market.
As you rightly say they tried so hard to make up lost ground but the public had moved on whilst the group remained stuck in their old ways despite putting in 100
% effort. Maybe Scherrie on lead could have saved the song and performed it in a more powerful way than Mary was capable of.
I saw this particular line up twice in concert and both times it was a crushing disappointment. They looked sensational but as my late Uncle said to me after one of the shows "The Supremes are dead". I have never forgotten his words.
This particular performance is probably their best effort which kind of says it all.
Just wait until their Top of the Pops performance emerges and you will see what i mean.

[sup_fan]

yeah i always found the dumb "acting" portion of HMM to be distracting and useless. in some of their live show bootlegs it's just insanity. they all argue over each other and ramble on. maybe they could have brought a handsome guy up from the audience during an extended ending of the song to dance with and ham it up a bit. like Diana did with Muscles. or how diana invited audience members on stage to dancing during The Boss on the HBO special. maybe each girl invites a man up on stage to playfully sing to and dance with. but this competition nonsense was so off base.

one of the most hideous things was the Caesar's Palace version of HMM. they really play up this dumb competition thing and i believe they use the ended to allow Mary to exit the stage and change outfits for here solo number A Song For You. S and S stay on stage and sing the "he and i belong together, he and i will be forever" about 10,000 in harmony. like they're yelling at each other or something

the managerial direction for the group was spot on in the recording studio - some of the strongest work in years and IMO the final album stands shoulder to shoulder with pretty much any other Supremes album. but there was such a lack of intelligence with how they presented themselves live. we all know that motown was completely MIA at this point so the blame isn't on them. either Mary or Pedro or the Mary/Pedro combo were making these terrible decisions.

[sup_fan]

thank you so much for posting this itÂ’s crystal clear and wonderful!

1975 EYES: .....it’s also video proof positive of the supreme’s demise. I know that there are people who are going to like it and there are people that are gonna think it’s wonderful that Mary has taken over the total lead of the song and that people think the dresses are classy and sexy and their head pieces are fabulous, IÂ’m just not one of them..

I just shake my head and wonder what they were thinking? To me, they look and behave like a C act trying to break into the business. I’m not sure if this is the worst performance of theirs IÂ’ve ever seen on television but it is among them. I really can’t believe it’s The Supremes. I never saw these outfits onstage, but they did HMM live a lot that I saw with the over-wrought routine. To me, they are trying too hard. This makes me sad to watch. Burying Scherrie says everything we need to know as to the how and why things went south. I’m not saying it’s good and I’m not saying it’s bad, what I am saying is I think it’s terrible if you’re trying to get popular. Maybe it’s art, maybe it’s above my head, but I know for sure it was not what the public was going to buy into, and it sure didn’t. It didn’t stop me from going to their shows, but they were flailing in a sea of pop acts that they couldn’t touch. Scherrie could have been presented as a Queen diva - as SOMETHING - something to take notice of. I don’t believe in the homogenized group because it didn’t have the goods to attract and hold public interest. I remember hearing touch, he’s my man, I guess I’ll miss the man, automatically sunshine and Nathan Jones and audiences didn’t know them or there was scant recognition. It appeared that the dwindling audiences were compromised of some die-hards and lots of folks who used to be fans. Those fans didn’t know anything but Stoned Love and weren’t that engaged. I Really think it was a mistake to allow Mary so much leadership on stage - and on singles. It was an uphill battle anyway, why make it worse? She would one day be a fine entertainer, but it took well over a dozen years after the group ended. I wanted so much for them to succeed. They wanted it very badly and they tried very hard.

for the most part, i totally agree with you. my only contradiction MIGHT be these gowns. if you ditch the dumb hats and fans, and eliminate the foolish choreography, these gowns weren't too bad. they're slinky and rather sexy. much better than the giant chiffon ball gowns they were also often wearing at the time. but even with that, they are most certainly not the most modern look and therefore prob not the best choice.

[floyjoy678]

I'm in the minority in that I love these dresses and this look on the ladies. Cindy looked great here and Scherrie has such great stage presence. Wasnt there issues between the group with this upcoming South Africa tour they're talking about? From what I remember it's when things started to get ugly between Cindy and Pedro.

[marybrewster]

I think the dress stand alone look great, but wearing an evening gown for a fast paced disco number is ridiculous. Should have been something short and shimmery. Save the full length for the ballads.

[blackguy69]

From reading these comments I would say everyone is entitled to their own opinion and What works for some might not work for others. But I will say is no matter what they did someone will always find something to criticize instead of just enjoying the music

[sup_fan]

From reading these comments I would say everyone is entitled to their own opinion and What works for some might not work for others. But I will say is no matter what they did someone will always find something to criticize instead of just enjoying the music

oh well of course :) that's half the fun of the chat here though lol. i know we'd all love a time machine to go back and help change or course correct some things. missed opportunities, different options etc

the Supremes have so many "what if's" that it makes for lots of fan banter. and i think everyone here is criticizing but also mostly offering up constructive criticism. most of the really harsh dialogs have dissipated and now people are offering up their opinions on topics without fear of being berated. and i find it enjoyable to hear other POVs.

[sup_fan]

I think the dress stand alone look great, but wearing an evening gown for a fast paced disco number is ridiculous. Should have been something short and shimmery. Save the full length for the ballads.

agreed! the red sequin wrap gowns were frankly the best ones from the MSC lineup. here's the list of gowns i have put together

red mini dresses with gold fringe from All I Want
red sequin wrap gowns
black and white vegas sequins with feather wraps
green chiffon serpent ball gown
pale blue ball gown
white, yellow and orange ball gowns
jesus robes
these slinky velvet gowns
Dream sequence outfits
pink pants/dress combo from Soul Train
Zebra gowns


they were really into voluminous gowns and that is NOT the right ensemble for fast-paced disco. frankly only the red sequins were really right.

now when Susaye joined, they added:

the tuxes from Udo live*
the all-in-one Caesar gown
the orange gowns with wraps from Soul Train*
the brown gown w colored striped from Soul Train*
the pink chiffon gowns in Mary's collection and gown book [[not worn)
blue/lavender fringe gowns from Udo*
pink kaftans with aztec collars
red outfits from Merv Griffin You Are The Heart Of Me

with Susaye they got more back on track. the four with an * are ones that, IMO, work much better with the lineup and the disco vibe

[marybrewster]

The Supremes image [[including and ESPECIALLY gowns) were just as important [[and sometimes ever more so) than their sound.

I enjoy the "what if's" and the banter. At least on these topics, we can often agree to disagree. It's not the ending shitshow like the Motown 25 and RTL threads.

[sup_fan]

The Supremes image [[including and ESPECIALLY gowns) were just as important [[and sometimes ever more so) than their sound.

I enjoy the "what if's" and the banter. At least on these topics, we can often agree to disagree. It's not the ending shitshow like the Motown 25 and RTL threads.

i agree. image was a huge part of the act and a bit element of their appeal. for much of their career there was a "what will the Supremes wear next" anticipation. i think by the mid 70s though, as the public had become oblivious to the group, that had dissipated.

IMO the fact that the group didn't seem to update their approach and sound, along with their look, was part of the real demise

[TheMotownManiac]

for the most part, i totally agree with you. my only contradiction MIGHT be these gowns. if you ditch the dumb hats and fans, and eliminate the foolish choreography, these gowns weren't too bad. they're slinky and rather sexy. much better than the giant chiffon ball gowns they were also often wearing at the time. but even with that, they are most certainly not the most modern look and therefore prob not the best choice.


oh, I agree. I wasn’t clear. I’m fine with the gowns - as gowns - but not as dance costumes. Mary wore it well. There are a few TV appearances where I just saw DOOM written all over them. This is one. Tom Jones was the first. How could THE SUPREMES have sunk to this? I remember when they were on Tom Jones I thought “it’s over for them, I love the records but this is so terrible.” I couldn’t believe my eyes.

[floyjoy678]

oh, I agree. I wasn’t clear. I’m fine with the gowns - as gowns - but not as dance costumes. Mary wore it well. There are a few TV appearances where I just saw DOOM written all over them. This is one. Tom Jones was the first. How could THE SUPREMES have sunk to this? I remember when they were on Tom Jones I thought “it’s over for them, I love the records but this is so terrible.” I couldn’t believe my eyes.

To be fair I felt that way about the group in most of 1969. The Supremes in general were fizzling out even before Jean came in.

[BobbyC]

I agree about the look of the Supremes late in the decade. I hated all the bouffant wigs, the overdone makeup and all that. We 70's kids wanted a more modern look that singers like Chaka, Natalie Cole, Patti and others had. When the Supremes started they had a sexy, naturally pretty look with dresses that didn't hide their curves. What happened? I know some fans love the glitz but I didn't. I think during the Mary, Scherrie Susaye years they were getting on track with the 70's but it was too late

[blackguy69]

They started wearing their own hair once Scherrie came aboard
I agree about the look of the Supremes late in the decade. I hated all the bouffant wigs, the overdone makeup and all that. We 70's kids wanted a more modern look that singers like Chaka, Natalie Cole, Patti and others had. When the Supremes started they had a sexy, naturally pretty look with dresses that didn't hide their curves. What happened? I know some fans love the glitz but I didn't. I think during the Mary, Scherrie Susaye years they were getting on track with the 70's but it was too late

[blackguy69]

That I can agree with
To be fair I felt that way about the group in most of 1969. The Supremes in general were fizzling out even before Jean came in.

[blackguy69]

Like I mentioned in the past, the girls were caught in a catch 22. People complained when they wore the gowns and people complained when they didn’t. It seems like for some no matter what they did someone will let it be known. And if we’re gonna be truthful they were doomed the moment they became Diana Ross and the Supremes.

[sup_fan]

oh, I agree. I wasn’t clear. I’m fine with the gowns - as gowns - but not as dance costumes. Mary wore it well. There are a few TV appearances where I just saw DOOM written all over them. This is one. Tom Jones was the first. How could THE SUPREMES have sunk to this? I remember when they were on Tom Jones I thought “it’s over for them, I love the records but this is so terrible.” I couldn’t believe my eyes.

oh see i think the Tom Jones show was a great one! those green fringe pantsuits were awesome! the medley was a little hokey but Jean and her gospel ad libs were great.

now the choreography for Stoned Love on TJ was jacked up lol. after that complex and energetic opening medley, i think they could have kept it more simple for SL.

[sup_fan]

Like I mentioned in the past, the girls were caught in a catch 22. People complained when they wore the gowns and people complained when they didn’t. It seems like for some no matter what they did someone will let it be known. And if we’re gonna be truthful they were doomed the moment they became Diana Ross and the Supremes.

agreed! MJL tried to tone down the Vegas glitz look a bit with some simpler but still attractive outfits. but on here everyone has heart palpitations over those outfits lol

[BobbyC]

I could tell! I thought Scherrie was hot.

[marybrewster]

There's a clip of "Bad Weather" from BOB HOPE. The Supremes have on these great white evening gowns; Jean and Lynda looked FANTASTIC. Mary is wearing her real hair and it looks so out of place. Maybe wigs should have been worn with the gowns, and "naturals" for the more "street" type costumes.

[blackguy69]

Mary’s hair wasn’t out of place it was relaxed and styled simple
There's a clip of "Bad Weather" from BOB HOPE. The Supremes have on these great white evening gowns; Jean and Lynda looked FANTASTIC. Mary is wearing her real hair and it looks so out of place. Maybe wigs should have been worn with the gowns, and "naturals" for the more "street" type costumes.

[RanRan79]

There's a clip of "Bad Weather" from BOB HOPE. The Supremes have on these great white evening gowns; Jean and Lynda looked FANTASTIC. Mary is wearing her real hair and it looks so out of place. Maybe wigs should have been worn with the gowns, and "naturals" for the more "street" type costumes.

In the age of Black Is Beautiful? That was the point. A Black woman could be natural and glam all at once.

[marybrewster]

In the age of Black Is Beautiful? That was the point. A Black woman could be natural and glam all at once.

Jean and Lynda must have missed the memo.

[marybrewster]

Mary’s hair wasn’t out of place it was relaxed and styled simple

Next to Jean and Lynda, her hair was a mess.

[blackguy69]

No it wasn’t
Next to Jean and Lynda, her hair was a mess.

[khansperac]

Can someone please post this video. There is a habit discussing songs or performances- but no videos or at least a link to what is being discussed. Ok, off my soapbox now 🙂

[blackguy69]

Here it is

Can someone please post this video. There is a habit discussing songs or performances- but no videos or at least a link to what is being discussed. Ok, off my soapbox now 

[blackguy69]

https://youtu.be/hn9SchhvvMY

[khansperac]

Thank you blackguy69.

[BobbyC]

I like how the group looks in this Bad Weather video, it was a step in the right direction. These dresses were form-fitting, as it should be!!

[sup_fan]

i really like these gowns too and they look sensational in them. but i'm not sure if they were fashion forward. they got these in late 71 with the MJC lineup. stunning and gorgeous but at this time the girls needed to be hip and cutting edge. these look like DRATS gowns to me.

[TheMotownManiac]

To be fair I felt that way about the group in most of 1969. The Supremes in general were fizzling out even before Jean came in.


They certainly were slipping, but, they still filled arenas, were in demand globally and could name any show they wanted to be on. They were fizzling out with class, style and the highest possible level of achievement for the presentation they had chosen. JMC looked like fools on Tom Jones in those hideous gold pantsuits matched with hairstyles that were inappropriate for the look, the awful choreography for Stoned Love, the hot mess of irs time to break down on flip - Such a great track and absolutely no focus on it at all visually look with ridiculous choreography and glam pantsuit with distracting fringe flying around. That song is a mood piece and They performed it like it was there’s no business like show business. They had a brilliant singer in Jean Terrell and she’s barely had a close up in order to possibly get the point of the song across while they were doing side steps with kicks. My heart was breaking watching them implode. It never crossed my mind on January 14, 1970 that I would be cringing at them on television.

DR&TS had an ineffective Performance on Ed Sullivan with no matter what sign you are, I doubt very much it sold any records at all from that performance. It was so much movement you couldn’t possibly pay attention to that busy, wordy song. But they didn’t look like rubes. The proof us in the pudding as they went downhill rather quickly while boasting 4 hits in their first 18 months, but albums and tickets were slipping badly. I wish Suzanne de Passe wasn’t working so hard on the Jackson 5 at the time because I think someone with vision and style could’ve saved this group. Motown was wise to get rid of Frank wilson, although I don’t know that smoky was the answer but at least they were trying to change things musically. I just don’t think that was the problem, I think it was the visual presentation isn’t very much interest in the group as a group except for the diehard fans and they were dropping off steadily.

[TheMotownManiac]

Like I mentioned in the past, the girls were caught in a catch 22. People complained when they wore the gowns and people complained when they didn’t. It seems like for some no matter what they did someone will let it be known. And if we’re gonna be truthful they were doomed the moment they became Diana Ross and the Supremes.

You wouldn’t say that if you saw them at the Kiehl hockey Arena in late 67 and the spring of 69. They had to add a second show in 1969 they did it at 2 PM. It’s the only time I ever heard I’m living in shame live. I know they had slipped in some smaller markets, I don’t think they were doomed plus they still sold a lot of records considering they didn’t have HDH.

[TheMotownManiac]

oh see i think the Tom Jones show was a great one! those green fringe pantsuits were awesome! the medley was a little hokey but Jean and her gospel ad libs were great.

now the choreography for Stoned Love on TJ was jacked up lol. after that complex and energetic opening medley, i think they could have kept it more simple for SL.

I love them also! And they are absolutely perfect for that fast-paced medley - which Jean excels on. That’s what drives me crazy - they had the talent, but They needed to bring in new fans because of the number of fans they lost from diana ross’ departure- and they just didn’t. This green fringe medley, as wonderful as it was, was not going to do anything to bring them new young fans in the kinds of numbers they needed. I know I rag on them a lot, but it’s just like when I first heard the I love you album - There may be a little bit of it that I like but this is not gonna get you anywhere. I never wanted to lose the Supremes in my heart or in the public, I held onto the bitter end because I was fortunate enough to be able to hang with the girls sometimes and that changed everything. My friends were not happy when I showed up at parties with Floy Joy. They didn’t want my diana ross albums either, but it didn’t matter because she was above all of that especially after lady sings the blues - but even before. After she got in the radio, she was doing great business for first gig in New York broke box office records at the Waldorf. The Supremes had something to prove evidently and they couldn’t prove it.

[TheMotownManiac]

There's a clip of "Bad Weather" from BOB HOPE. The Supremes have on these great white evening gowns; Jean and Lynda looked FANTASTIC. Mary is wearing her real hair and it looks so out of place. Maybe wigs should have been worn with the gowns, and "naturals" for the more "street" type costumes.

I said I thousand times that’s what’s great about this forum! I love Mary’s hair. Jean looks great and is working the song - albeit to a Kate Smith audience LOL - If ever there was a demographic that was not going to buy this record, it is this demographic!

long live varied opinions!!

[TheMotownManiac]

i really like these gowns too and they look sensational in them. but i'm not sure if they were fashion forward. they got these in late 71 with the MJC lineup. stunning and gorgeous but at this time the girls needed to be hip and cutting edge. these look like DRATS gowns to me.

it was too late by now. They needed a total reinvention like Patty Labelle, and that only last in a little while.

[sup_fan]

They certainly were slipping, but, they still filled arenas, were in demand globally and could name any show they wanted to be on. They were fizzling out with class, style and the highest possible level of achievement for the presentation they had chosen. JMC looked like fools on Tom Jones in those hideous gold pantsuits matched with hairstyles that were inappropriate for the look, the awful choreography for Stoned Love, the hot mess of irs time to break down on flip - Such a great track and absolutely no focus on it at all visually look with ridiculous choreography and glam pantsuit with distracting fringe flying around. That song is a mood piece and They performed it like it was there’s no business like show business. They had a brilliant singer in Jean Terrell and she’s barely had a close up in order to possibly get the point of the song across while they were doing side steps with kicks. My heart was breaking watching them implode. It never crossed my mind on January 14, 1970 that I would be cringing at them on television.

DR&TS had an ineffective Performance on Ed Sullivan with no matter what sign you are, I doubt very much it sold any records at all from that performance. It was so much movement you couldn’t possibly pay attention to that busy, wordy song. But they didn’t look like rubes. The proof us in the pudding as they went downhill rather quickly while boasting 4 hits in their first 18 months, but albums and tickets were slipping badly. I wish Suzanne de Passe wasn’t working so hard on the Jackson 5 at the time because I think someone with vision and style could’ve saved this group. Motown was wise to get rid of Frank wilson, although I don’t know that smoky was the answer but at least they were trying to change things musically. I just don’t think that was the problem, I think it was the visual presentation isn’t very much interest in the group as a group except for the diehard fans and they were dropping off steadily.

i agree that they were trying too hard with the choreography. I've always found the Time To Break Down on Flip to be disappointing. completely agree with your assessment. Not every word in the song needs a hand motion or step. it is ok to simply stand and sing.

Maybe instead of drilling all of that dumb choreography, they should have spent more time training Jean to be more dynamic on stage. I get it to some degree that M and C would want to change the approach for their tv appearances. in the 60s M and F and then M and C only got occasional shots. but that's frankly how you SHOULD do a group performance. you need to have more time on the lead singer so that people know where to look. too many wide or group shots just has your eyes wandering all around.

the group on Sullivan for Ladder was great. M and C had their little lines and got close ups for that. but there was plenty of Jean time and you knew she was singing the lead.

For SL on Tom Jones or the flip clips, it's too random and all over the place.

[floyjoy678]

i agree that they were trying too hard with the choreography. I've always found the Time To Break Down on Flip to be disappointing. completely agree with your assessment. Not every word in the song needs a hand motion or step. it is ok to simply stand and sing.

Maybe instead of drilling all of that dumb choreography, they should have spent more time training Jean to be more dynamic on stage. I get it to some degree that M and C would want to change the approach for their tv appearances. in the 60s M and F and then M and C only got occasional shots. but that's frankly how you SHOULD do a group performance. you need to have more time on the lead singer so that people know where to look. too many wide or group shots just has your eyes wandering all around.

the group on Sullivan for Ladder was great. M and C had their little lines and got close ups for that. but there was plenty of Jean time and you knew she was singing the lead.

For SL on Tom Jones or the flip clips, it's too random and all over the place.

The Supremes were never really known for their choreography anyway. Their early hits like Baby Love and Come See About Me had choreography but they didn't do much with the hits from '65 and on.

[TheMotownManiac]

i agree that they were trying too hard with the choreography. I've always found the Time To Break Down on Flip to be disappointing. completely agree with your assessment. Not every word in the song needs a hand motion or step. it is ok to simply stand and sing.

Maybe instead of drilling all of that dumb choreography, they should have spent more time training Jean to be more dynamic on stage. I get it to some degree that M and C would want to change the approach for their tv appearances. in the 60s M and F and then M and C only got occasional shots. but that's frankly how you SHOULD do a group performance. you need to have more time on the lead singer so that people know where to look. too many wide or group shots just has your eyes wandering all around.

the group on Sullivan for Ladder was great. M and C had their little lines and got close ups for that. but there was plenty of Jean time and you knew she was singing the lead.

For SL on Tom Jones or the flip clips, it's too random and all over the place.

I know I could be boiled in oil for this, but I’m not a fan of being “fair” to non-lead group members. Cindy is the sweetest thing, but her voice, to me, is a nothing and I would never have featured her even on one line while the group was getting off its feet. I don’t know if I’d give Mary many - if any - unless she really had the best sound for the line. Closeups of the other two are great when the lead isn’t singing, but, again, Jean was the centerpiece of the song. Ed Sullivan was great for camera blocking, they featured the girls appropriately- especially on Irving Berlin etc. I believe Motown or Sullivan was right with their focus on DR&TS, and JMC on Sullivan.

To me, selling the group was paramount. I think they may have fared better, perhaps not much, but better with more attention on the leads - OMG especially with Scherrie. He’s My Man here is like a Mary solo with her in the center flailing her arms like she’s trying to get chosen on Let’s Make A Deal. And, if I was managing the group, I’d have had Mary’s heels an inch or two shorter to help the group visually. I just wanted them to make it so much. I was not prepared for a life without The Supremes. Jean was developing beautifully- IGIMTM on Mike Douglas is exquisite- I think my fave TV appearance of hers. But she’s great on Brother Love’s.

[sup_fan]

i think even during the DMF and DMC they could have provided a bit more of a balance. I enjoy some of the incidental pieces incorporating more vocals from M, F and C. As I said with the JMC debut on Sullivan, giving M and C their lines and all was a wonderful move. it did help broaden the appeal of the group but certainly didn't pull any real attention away from Jean and her amazing vocals.

DMF did some more complex choreography like the Hullabaloo clip for Back In My Arms. but the intricate moves were in the intro. a fabulous way to show the charm and appeal of the group but then after that cute intro, they mostly stand and sing. do some light arm movements and sways. same with clips like Symphony, Happening, You keep me hanging on and more. none of it took any of the attention away from the singing

now if we fast forward to MSS, when they did the High Energy videos, i think the complex full choreography they did worked really well. they're of course lip syncing so you don't have to worry about being breathless and all. but then when the girls were live and doing Let Yourself Go, they unfortunately kept nearly all of the choreography and they were always worn out and gasping for air at the end of the song. So they should have had a far pruned down version for when they were live.

[Bluebrock]

i think even during the DMF and DMC they could have provided a bit more of a balance. I enjoy some of the incidental pieces incorporating more vocals from M, F and C. As I said with the JMC debut on Sullivan, giving M and C their lines and all was a wonderful move. it did help broaden the appeal of the group but certainly didn't pull any real attention away from Jean and her amazing vocals.

DMF did some more complex choreography like the Hullabaloo clip for Back In My Arms. but the intricate moves were in the intro. a fabulous way to show the charm and appeal of the group but then after that cute intro, they mostly stand and sing. do some light arm movements and sways. same with clips like Symphony, Happening, You keep me hanging on and more. none of it took any of the attention away from the singing

now if we fast forward to MSS, when they did the High Energy videos, i think the complex full choreography they did worked really well. they're of course lip syncing so you don't have to worry about being breathless and all. but then when the girls were live and doing Let Yourself Go, they unfortunately kept nearly all of the choreography and they were always worn out and gasping for air at the end of the song. So they should have had a far pruned down version for when they were live.

MSS were a hot mess live. They were literally all over the place and seemingly competing against each other on stage. It was not a pretty sight seeing Mary trying but failing to keep up with Scherrie, whilst Scherrie was trying but failing to keep up with Susaye who just seemed to be doing her own thing.
After witnessing the MSC line up and vowing never to see the ladies again, i broke my own vow and witnessed the car crash that was MSS live. They sounded fine on record, but their live shows were disastrous. I was relieved when they called it a day and saved us from further pain. Such a shame.

[sup_fan]

MSS were a hot mess live. They were literally all over the place and seemingly competing against each other on stage. It was not a pretty sight seeing Mary trying but failing to keep up with Scherrie, whilst Scherrie was trying but failing to keep up with Susaye who just seemed to be doing her own thing.
After witnessing the MSC line up and vowing never to see the ladies again, i broke my own vow and witnessed the car crash that was MSS live. They sounded fine on record, but their live shows were disastrous. I was relieved when they called it a day and saved us from further pain. Such a shame.

agreed. i would say pretty much every single thing of the live shows needed to be throw out. they needed to greatly reduce the choreography and running around all over the stage, shift more of the lead vocal emphasis onto Scherrie, ditch Dream medley and most of the MOR junk. And honestly they needed to reduce the amount of 3-part singing. there is so much of it in the bootlegs of the live shows i have that it's tiring. there's nothing wrong with have 1 person singing lead and then the other two accompanying with backing vocals. then when you do incorporate the 3 part harmony, it's an amazing effect. but overkill ruins it

and the ad libs needed to be WAY toned down. there should be specific areas in songs where someone might have an opportunity to go slightly off script. but no - no one needs to just be running off doing whatever, whenever

[sup_fan]

another example of a GREAT tv appearance of MJC was the Andy Williams show. the choreography was simple but elegant and effective. M and C had occasional spotlight moments that showed what a wonderful group effort they were doing.

[marybrewster]

I said I thousand times that’s what’s great about this forum! I love Mary’s hair. Jean looks great and is working the song - albeit to a Kate Smith audience LOL - If ever there was a demographic that was not going to buy this record, it is this demographic!

long live varied opinions!!

Amen to you! I respect your opinion, and appreciate an "agree to disagree" response to my post, rather than saying I am wrong, my words or invalid, or "no it's not". We all see things through different eyes. And in my eyes, Mary's hair was a HOT MESS in the "Bad Weather" clip".

[marybrewster]

another example of a GREAT tv appearance of MJC was the Andy Williams show. the choreography was simple but elegant and effective. M and C had occasional spotlight moments that showed what a wonderful group effort they were doing.

That's really a divine clip; probably the best JMC clip, next to the Sullivan debut.

[marybrewster]

MSS were a hot mess live. They were literally all over the place and seemingly competing against each other on stage. It was not a pretty sight seeing Mary trying but failing to keep up with Scherrie, whilst Scherrie was trying but failing to keep up with Susaye who just seemed to be doing her own thing.
After witnessing the MSC line up and vowing never to see the ladies again, i broke my own vow and witnessed the car crash that was MSS live. They sounded fine on record, but their live shows were disastrous. I was relieved when they called it a day and saved us from further pain. Such a shame.

There's a clip of MSS on Merv or Mike Douglas; they're singing "I'm Gonna Let My Heart Do The Walking" in the red "Sullivan" pantsuits. Mary looks like she's an amazon next to Scherrie and Susaye. The entire performance is a bunch of hooting and hollering; let's face it, both S and S could sing circles around M, as evidenced in this clip. Towards the end, it seems like a competition between S and S who can make the most runs, and who can screech the loudest. Mary resigns herself to singing "do the walkin'" over and over. On record? Fantastic. Live? Yikes.

[sup_fan]

There's a clip of MSS on Merv or Mike Douglas; they're singing "I'm Gonna Let My Heart Do The Walking" in the red "Sullivan" pantsuits. Mary looks like she's an amazon next to Scherrie and Susaye. The entire performance is a bunch of hooting and hollering; let's face it, both S and S could sing circles around M, as evidenced in this clip. Towards the end, it seems like a competition between S and S who can make the most runs, and who can screech the loudest. Mary resigns herself to singing "do the walkin'" over and over. On record? Fantastic. Live? Yikes.

not only was Mary much taller than S or S but for this clip she's also on the largest of the 3 pedestal boxes. so they simply amplified things

there are some of the outfits where the height difference isn't quite as glaring. the blue fringe udo gowns and their Jan 77 appearance on soul train.

but the tuxes they wore made Mary look like she was 10 feet taller than them. the jesus robes simply swamped Susaye in a sea of fabric.