The Wiz - thoughts? Love it? like it? hate it?

[sup_fan]

what are your thoughts on this project?

It's clearly one Diana felt was drastically important for her. And while it bombed at the time, in recent years the public has taken more of an interest in it

frankly i find it nearly unwatchable. And i can sit through Xanadu!!

1. Diana plays the role as if she were appearing in Shakespeare In The Park. she's almost frighteningly serious. and if she isn't stone faced serious, she's screaming at the top of her lungs. basically she's totally neurotic

2. it's SOOOOOOOOOOOOOO long and the scenes just seem to plod on and on and on

3. i do like the "urban playground" concept with the NYC set. that's really cool.

4. nearly every dance sequence is shot in a maddeningly broad wide shot. it's as if the camera team was positioned across from NYC in Hoboken! often the dancing is filmed from behind. this simply leaves the viewer too removed from the activity. the point of the choreography is to pull the eye into the action of the song. here we're so far away, we might as well just be listening to a radio broadcast of it

[Ollie9]

what are your thoughts on this project?

It's clearly one Diana felt was drastically important for her. And while it bombed at the time, in recent years the public has taken more of an interest in it

frankly i find it nearly unwatchable. And i can sit through Xanadu!!

1. Diana plays the role as if she were appearing in Shakespeare In The Park. she's almost frighteningly serious. and if she isn't stone faced serious, she's screaming at the top of her lungs. basically she's totally neurotic

2. it's SOOOOOOOOOOOOOO long and the scenes just seem to plod on and on and on

3. i do like the "urban playground" concept with the NYC set. that's really cool.

4. nearly every dance sequence is shot in a maddeningly broad wide shot. it's as if the camera team was positioned across from NYC in Hoboken! often the dancing is filmed from behind. this simply leaves the viewer too removed from the activity. the point of the choreography is to pull the eye into the action of the song. here we're so far away, we might as well just be listening to a radio broadcast of it

Is this really true?. You can watch Xanadu in its entirety from beginning to end. :eek:

[RanRan79]

Love it. The music is worth the price of admission alone. The visual musical numbers were fantastic and IMO are among the best ever. I have, in recent time, come to recognize the flaws [[such as the cinematography) in the overall production, but it has not dampened my love of the movie. Diana killed those vocals. Sucks so bad that we never got another Diana/Quincy Jones project.

[blackguy69]

I guess Olivia Newton John got his mojo going lol

Is this really true?. You can watch Xanadu in its entirety from beginning to end. :eek:

[Levi Stubbs Tears]

2. it's SOOOOOOOOOOOOOO long and the scenes just seem to plod on and on and on


This is pretty much all you needed to say.

[Levi Stubbs Tears]

Sucks so bad that we never got another Diana/Quincy Jones project.

Well you got 'We are the World'.

[floyjoy678]

I love the music but I do think it really drags at various points throughout. The last 10 minutes of the movie always has me sobbing like a baby starting with "Believe In Yourself" till when Dorothy goes running back into her home in the peaceful snow.

[nomis]

Watched it for the very first time a few months ago I loved the costumes set pieces colours and lighting was fantastic I can see why it's a cult classic it's ambitious,bold,different and I found it touching I've let a friend borrow my dvd of it can't wait to get it back and enjoy it for a second time...

[Circa 1824]

Diana’s vocals were exquisite.

Hair and makeup hideous.

[sup_fan]

Is this really true?. You can watch Xanadu in its entirety from beginning to end. :eek:

lolol it's not exactly an enjoyable experience, but yes! i can sit through Xanadu but can't sit through The Wiz lol

[sup_fan]

here's an example of the complete WTF

you have a LONG opening scene with Aunt Em singing The Feeling We Once Had. this introductory scene should be helping to establish our primary characters or at least establish the conflict/situation that this movie is going to tackle. Diana appears for about 3 seconds in it. you have 10,000 relatives all in the scene and they're the ones Em is singing to. but they have no names, no stories and no involvement in the plot. WTF are they doing there? who cares about them?!?!

if Em had sung the song AFTER dinner to Dorothy as a way to establish the bond and relationship between them, then you'd have something.

But basically Em just nags Dorothy to give up teaching kindergarten and take some high school job. never mind the fact that 1) those are totally different forms of education and the skills required are different and 2) maybe dorothy really enjoys and finds satisfaction from teaching young kids

so the whole introduction SHOULD establish why Dorothy is so desperate to return home from oz. but basically all we got was a nag of an aunt that ignores dorothy at the family reunion and then pesters her to change her job

if i was dorothy i'd say FU Auntie Em and stay in that groovy Emerald City with all it's fabulousness lolol

[thommg]

I think the film had the wrong director. There is no sense of excitement or wonder once Dorothy gets to Oz. The dance sequences are shot in a maddening static way which makes them boring. Everybody Rejoice has the same overhead tracking shot multiple times! Why isn't the camera moving? The fashion sequence at the World Trade Center was just looooong, and added nothing to the plot. The biggest offense, to me, is The Wiz. That big head had laser eyes. So what? The 1939 movie made him seem much more threatening, and fierce. I've often wondered if the film would be better if a more imaginative editor was brought in to help the pace a bit.

[BayouMotownMan]

I was a movie reviewer for my college newspaper and couldn't wait to see this film. I was horrified at how bad it was. Ross was entirely too old for this part and making Dorothy 24 instead of 12 only made the character seem unbalanced that she didn't want to live on her own and was devoted to a dog instead of a man.

I won an award from best headline of the week: "Ding, Dong, The Wiz is Dead."

I understand Ross' fire to play the part but surely SOMEBODY should have told her she was too old. The only time I sat through the entire film was the night I reviewed it. The music was in a key too high and I remember the veins sticking out of her neck during Home.

[Boogiedown]

job

if i was dorothy i'd say FU Auntie Em and stay in that groovy Emerald City with all it's fabulousness lolol

oh my ! lol!!

[sup_fan]

I was a movie reviewer for my college newspaper and couldn't wait to see this film. I was horrified at how bad it was. Ross was entirely too old for this part and making Dorothy 24 instead of 12 only made the character seem unbalanced that she didn't want to live on her own and was devoted to a dog instead of a man.

I won an award from best headline of the week: "Ding, Dong, The Wiz is Dead."

I understand Ross' fire to play the part but surely SOMEBODY should have told her she was too old. The only time I sat through the entire film was the night I reviewed it. The music was in a key too high and I remember the veins sticking out of her neck during Home.

exactly!! Diana's portrayal wasn't of a lost child [[even just a figurative child) searching for home but of a manic depressive with screaming fits that out screamed her straightjacket and padded cell scenes in Lady.

Dorothy didn't need a wiz but a shrink lol

[Boogiedown]

The Wiz was piss-poor.

[sup_fan]

oh my ! lol!!

in the 1939 movie the role of Aunt Em isn't, technically, large. Clara Blandick didn't have pages and pages of lines. but what she had was highly effective. how she stood up to Almira Gulch and her panic over losing Dorothy in the storm. Plus how she was distracted from dorothy as they were working on the farm. You got the sense that this was a REAL family. busy, harried, loving, stern, caring. You can easily understand this teenager feeling like the world is against her, even when they do truly care. and then you understand her goal of returning home from oz

[sup_fan]

here's a idiotic conundrum from the film lolol

Evillene is a despot. she runs a sweatshop for her slaves. but in what "post Triangle Shirtwaist fire world" does she live in!?!?! why the fuck would she bother installing a sprinkler or fire suppression system?!?! lololol water will kill her. and besides, why does she care about worker safety? and she lives in a toilet?

seems for someone that is eradicated by water that she's living rather foolishly lol

[Boogiedown]

in the 1939 movie the role of Aunt Em isn't, technically, large. Clara Blandick didn't have pages and pages of lines. but what she had was highly effective. how she stood up to Almira Gulch and her panic over losing Dorothy in the storm. Plus how she was distracted from dorothy as they were working on the farm. You got the sense that this was a REAL family. busy, harried, loving, stern, caring. You can easily understand this teenager feeling like the world is against her, even when they do truly care. and then you understand her goal of returning home from oz


yes the whole point of the movie clearly comes through. Seeing Auntie Em worried during her absence in the crystal ball brings it home too.

I have to say though, having watched it a million times , I now try to find ways of critiquing.
I'm not so sure that out in the farmlands of Kansas back then , a little dog passing your place is going to do that much damage.

But for heaven's sake if your bratty dog is chasing her cat or whatever every time you go by Clara's place , put it on a leash !! Shame on you Dorothy ! Your neighbor warned you ! You brought your troubles on yourself!! lol!!

[sup_fan]

yes the whole point of the movie clearly comes through. Seeing Auntie Em worried during her absence in the crystal ball brings it home too.

I have to say though, having watched it a million times , I now try to find ways of critiquing.
I'm not so sure that out in the farmlands of Kansas back then , a little dog passing your place is going to do that much damage.

But for heaven's sake if your bratty dog is chasing her cat or whatever every time you go by Clara's place , put it on a leash !! Shame on you Dorothy ! Your neighbor warned you ! You brought your troubles on yourself!! lol!!

lol it was more than that! the dog all but made Almira lame due to the bite on her leg! lol just think if Miss Gulch was no longer able to pedal her bicycle lol

[djessie]

I saw it for the first time a couple of years ago. I enjoyed it and I can understand it´s cult status. However, I agree the film could have been more exiting with a different director. Also, Diana´s hairstyle made her look much older than she was supposed to be. But overall I liked it, in a camp way.

Oh and I LOVE Xanadu!

[RanRan79]

here's an example of the complete WTF

you have a LONG opening scene with Aunt Em singing The Feeling We Once Had. this introductory scene should be helping to establish our primary characters or at least establish the conflict/situation that this movie is going to tackle. Diana appears for about 3 seconds in it. you have 10,000 relatives all in the scene and they're the ones Em is singing to. but they have no names, no stories and no involvement in the plot. WTF are they doing there? who cares about them?!?!

if Em had sung the song AFTER dinner to Dorothy as a way to establish the bond and relationship between them, then you'd have something.

But basically Em just nags Dorothy to give up teaching kindergarten and take some high school job. never mind the fact that 1) those are totally different forms of education and the skills required are different and 2) maybe dorothy really enjoys and finds satisfaction from teaching young kids

so the whole introduction SHOULD establish why Dorothy is so desperate to return home from oz. but basically all we got was a nag of an aunt that ignores dorothy at the family reunion and then pesters her to change her job

if i was dorothy i'd say FU Auntie Em and stay in that groovy Emerald City with all it's fabulousness lolol

This forum- when it doesn't devolve into nonsensical spats- really is a great example of how art is interpreted differently by different people, whether the art be music or film. Love reading how other's ideas differ from mine.

My interpretation of these parts of the story you point out are as follows:

The opening scenes set up Dorothy's problem. The point of Aunt Em's song in the movie is to show her as the wise one. She's the revered Big Mama of the African American family. The glue that keeps them all bonded. Listen to her wisdom and advice and you can't go wrong. She's even sitting at the head of the table. She's Queen Em and she loves her family. The various family members don't have to have a story beyond the props used to illustrate Em's role in the family. And she doesn't ignore Dorothy at the dinner. [["You'll be out in the world, such a pretty girl, but you'll be on your own...")

From there it should come as no surprise when, while cleaning up, she "nags" Dorothy about the future of her life. As the great wise one [[who is actually represented by "The Wiz" in Dorothy's storm related "dream" of Oz) she knows more about life than Dorothy and feels it's her duty to steer her when she sees she's off track. It's also obvious that Dorothy rarely thought for herself while growing up and Aunt Em made a lot of decisions for her. Which of course is natural and the right thing to do for adults charged with the care of children, but there comes a point when more and more room is given for young people to make decisions in order to become responsible adults. Dorothy didn't have that. Aunt Em probably decided "Dorothy you'll go to college and you'll become a teacher". Meanwhile, what Dorothy really wanted to do was sing and dance.:cool: The problem with that dream is that she also has anxiety issues, probably related to the trauma of losing her parents. She has social anxiety, which makes such a dream of all that singing and dancing difficult. Much more easier to give in to Em's wishes and become a teacher.

And then there's the fact that Dorothy was probably extremely sheltered growing up. She was the quiet girl and the other kids picked on her. Aunt Em used to have to go up to the school and put her foot in folks' asses, hemming kids up against the wall and warning them "If you ever touch a hair on my sweet Dorothy's head again, if you even ever speak her name again, I will come up here and put my foot so far in yo ass that you'll need a dentist because I kicked your teeth out. And if your mama got a problem with it, tell her to come and see me at 433 Prospect Place and see if she leave with her teeth.":p

Dorothy wasn't forced to stand up for herself. So she was always cowering and running from anything she feared. The fact that she went to school and became a teacher is amazing at all, considering that she basically developed a fear of the world outside her small bubble. At some point Em realizes she created a problem and tries to fix it. Tough love time. That conversation in the kitchen was basically Em letting Dorothy know "You can't stay here no more" and the decision had been made. She has to do that if Dorothy has any chance at surviving, because there's no telling how long Em and Henry have left on earth. Both of them have high blood pressure and Em got the Diabetes. Dorothy will have to learn to fend for herself eventually, and it's probably easier for her to do it while Em and Henry are still around than if she was totally ass out alone.

Toto escaping ended up being a blessing for Dorothy. She goes out into the storm. Maybe it's hypothermia, who knows? But she blacks out and in this "alternate reality" she faces all those things that frighten her: a big bad world, being alone, even an overbearing "being" who bosses her around. Originally she's anxious to get back home because she's loved and safe there. In the end she's anxious to get back home because she has a new lease on life. She's prepared for whatever the world throws at her, probably for the first time in her life.

A few months later she crosses paths with a smooth talking dude who just started his own record company and has been looking for a sweet singing lady to help him make it to the very top. And the rest, as they say, is history.:D

That's my take, anyway.:cool:

[sup_fan]

yeah i have to say things have been really quite pleasant on here for the past many months. fans sharing a variety of viewpoints and [[mostly) without the fighting

but now ran - i'm gonna fight you!! lolol

I don't deny that Aunt Em being established as a "big mama" role within a family is an interesting character point and especially for reinterpreting the story in an african american home and POV

the problem is the director spends 99% of Em's screen time with her meandering around the dinner table singing to people that have 0 impact on the plot and will never be seen again. she never directs the song to Dorothy, the person we're supposed to care about. and Diana never ones has a single interaction with any of these people other than clearing away some dirty dishes. why are they there? what are they supposed to be doing? why should we care?

the movie never establishes any real reason for Dorothy to want to return home, other than she just wants to. her entire extended family ignores her at a family function, Aunt Em baggers her about moving into a job she doesn't want.

like i said! lol stay in Oz Dot! lol

[sup_fan]

also another fault i've found with the movie is that the 3 companions don't really come to realize their own journeys being completed. Dorothy informs them of how they solved their own problems. they don't really follow the [[annoying) theme of the movie which is self discovery and actualization. She informs them that they really did succeed. But we never really see Dorothy's growth and development. she's still the same nervous nitwit we saw in the beginning. there's no real character evolution and so the movie misses out on what should be the strongest emotional connection between viewer and character

[jobeterob]

It's definitely not a favourite of mine. I know I've never seen the whole movie since it's release.

But it is regarding as Diana's most successful movie and it is the movie she is most recognized for - which is weird.

[jobucats]

Although the music score is wonderful to experience, I felt the cinematography suffered. The whole movie, visually, was dark and the coloring filters that were used made it appear cheaply made. I was expecting the jubilant, festive scenes would have popped out of the screen with vibrant colors rather than everything using basement like lighting. Even the "Ease Down the Road" appeared to have been shot on an overcast day.

I recall reading somewhere that either Diana or Quincy stated that Diana was indeed using a vocal range that she seldom had ever used.

As others have stated, I wish more attention would have been given to the camera work of "Brand New Day" which is my favorite number.

I loved the one camera take of "Home" by Diana although those dangling graphics around her looked like cheap cutouts.

The soundtrack still remains one of my favorites.

[nomis]

i thought Nipsey Russell as the tinman was wonderful - brilliant costume design and portrayal.. everyone was good but he stood out for me.. as a Ross fan since 1986 i always avoided watching it due to its bad rep but watching it a couple months ago i was impressed..its ambitious and has its own style..you cant really compare it to the original Garland film apart from the premise..it would be hard to compare any version favourably to the original as that is was one of the most special and beloved films in history..its not trying to be like the original but it still takes you on a journey meeting memorable characters in unique settings..its but better than i anticipated and now i wish i had watched it years ago..im glad opinion has changed over the decades towards it

[Bluebrock]

The Wiz was piss-poor.

I have to agree with you.
I have never managed to sit through the whole film despite repeated attempts. It is truly awful in every respect with the notable exception of the music which was wonderful. Her vocals were exceptional on this project and it still pisses me off that she was unwilling to wait for Quincy to produce her rca debut. He understood her vocal strengths in the same way Ashford and Simpson, Michael Masser and Richard Perry did.
I often play the soundtrack, but i do not have sufficient time left on this earth to waste on attempting to sit through that celluloid disaster again.

[sansradio]

It's definitely not a favourite of mine. I know I've never seen the whole movie since it's release.

But it is regarding as Diana's most successful movie and it is the movie she is most recognized for - which is weird.

Two words: Michael Jackson. Since he now belongs to the ages, mostly everything he touched has seen a huge spark of rediscovery. Naturally, there'd be interest in his first feature film.

[nomis]

Two words: Michael Jackson. Since he now belongs to the ages, mostly everything he touched has seen a huge spark of rediscovery. Naturally, there'd be interest in his first feature film.

I cant believe he passed away over a decade ago..time goes so quickly.. kudos for Diana for battling on his behalf to be included in the film..he personally considered the film one of his career highlights

[khansperac]

Since last year, The Wiz has aired regularly on one of the Showtime cable channels. It seemed like whenever I was channel surfing, I would come across the Wiz.

[Atasteofhoney]

I watched this in 1986, at five years old, and it scared the living hell out of me.
I do love MJ and Diana so I will propably give it another try.

[Circa 1824]

I could never again watch the Wiz. It is visually painful.

[Atasteofhoney]

What about the supposed romance that took place during the Wiz?

[midnightman]

As a kid, I liked it, but as an adult, IDK, it kinda left me cold. Can't explain why. Maybe it was because of the still-negative connotations that Diana was blamed for why Hollywood wouldn't seek a major black film role until The Bodyguard in 1992, which seems to be more of a game changer than even Diana's role in Lady Sings the Blues in 1972 when Hollywood was JUST starting to warm up to black leads more [[blaxploitation era). Or maybe because it dragged too long for me to fully enjoy it. Or maybe it was the fact that the musical was much better and that a younger actress was more suited for the role than a 33, 34-year-old woman. Or maybe all of the above.

[midnightman]

Two words: Michael Jackson. Since he now belongs to the ages, mostly everything he touched has seen a huge spark of rediscovery. Naturally, there'd be interest in his first feature film.

Which is funny you say that because that's probably the BIGGEST reason many claim to like The Wiz lol

Without it, it would've likely been called out for the flop that it is. The only reason The Wiz became such an "important" film for some is because it was the film that brought MJ and Quincy Jones together and that's probably considered the most important part of the entire film.

In 1978, though, Michael Jackson was still considered a former child star and hadn't yet graduated to becoming a full-fledged pop star. The fact that this happened roughly a year later though may have been because of MJ and QJ's quick thinking that they should hook up.

But looking at books on Diana, it was regarded as the film that killed Diana's box office career. I would actually agree with this sentiment, Diana should've fought harder for the Josephine Baker role rather than choose a film that was, IMHO, out of her league.

[nomis]

What about the supposed romance that took place during the Wiz?

there wasnt a romance. Michael wasnt into women and we should leave it at that.

[midnightman]

there wasnt a romance. Michael wasnt into women and we should leave it at that.

Exactly. Less we talk, the better. We know how some folks are...

[Bluebrock]

What about the supposed romance that took place during the Wiz?

"Supposed" being the operative word here. There was never any romantic interaction between Ms Ross and Michael Jackson.

[jobeterob]

Unbelievable that there are people that believe such claptrap

[Boogiedown]

So how much was Lena Horne in this film?? I got curious , because ... why Lena??

I can only find this one piece. Is this it for her role as Glenda ?


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5EVp2D2e1rM


Seems static , disconnected from the movie itself ..... She's singing 'to' Dorothy , because Diana gets head shots edited in here and there to portray that.
Otherwise it's Lena singing in front of one stationary camera in front of a rather sterile backdrop. Are there any shared visuals with her and any of the cast ?? Did Diana and Lena ever cross paths in the filming?


Looks to me like Lena basically dialed in her performance from ...somewhere.... and did this scene in one take !!

I'm reminded of the time Ethel Merman committed herself to doing a disco album. She came into the studio as scheduled, did each song once and then she was out of there !



here's a more generous linker's link :


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DHzx2P4x63c

[nomis]

So how much was Lena Horne in this film?? I got curious , because ... why Lena??

I can only find this one piece. Is this it for her role as Glenda ?


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5EVp2D2e1rM


Seems static , disconnected from the movie itself ..... She's singing 'to' Dorothy , because Diana gets head shots edited in here and there to portray that.
Otherwise it's Lena singing in front of one stationary camera in front of a rather sterile backdrop. Are there any shared visuals with her and any of the cast ?? Did Diana and Lena ever cross paths in the filming?


Looks to me like Lena basically dialed in her performance from ...somewhere.... and did this scene in one take !!

I'm reminded of the time Ethel Merman committed herself to doing a disco album. She came into the studio as scheduled, did each song once and then she was out of there !

Boogie I watched it for the first time a couple of months ago and I thought the exact same thing about lena's scene..it felt like a first warm up/rehearsal take her arrival is supposed to be a suspensful build up to all that's occured in the story..I was like meh..

[reese]

So how much was Lena Horne in this film?? I got curious , because ... why Lena??

I can only find this one piece. Is this it for her role as Glenda ?


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5EVp2D2e1rM


Seems static , disconnected from the movie itself ..... She's singing 'to' Dorothy , because Diana gets head shots edited in here and there to portray that.
Otherwise it's Lena singing in front of one stationary camera in front of a rather sterile backdrop. Are there any shared visuals with her and any of the cast ?? Did Diana and Lena ever cross paths in the filming?


Looks to me like Lena basically dialed in her performance from ...somewhere.... and did this scene in one take !!

I'm reminded of the time Ethel Merman committed herself to doing a disco album. She came into the studio as scheduled, did each song once and then she was out of there !

Aside from a brief scene early in the film where Glinda causes the snowstorm that blows Dorothy into Oz, and then BELIEVE IN YOURSELF, that is it for Lena.
She might have very well shot it in one day since there wasn't much she had to do. I have seen one photo of Lena and Diana [[in costume) together on set. Diana is looking at Lena with a look of adoration while Lena seems to be expressing a point. I believe there is another photo of them together in an EBONY article on the film.

I think Lena did the film because it's director, Sidney Lumet, was her son-in-law at the time. She has said that she really wanted to play Evillene. In her Broadway show, she said something like ten years between movie roles is no joke. Take the job they offer you and do the best you can with it.

For me, Lena's BELIEVE IN YOURSELF is one of the high points of the film. A classic rendition that led to Diana's powerful rendition of HOME. A great one-two punch.

[sup_fan]

agree that Lena's part seems completely underutilized. she's completely disconnected from the movie. she should have been incorporated at least somehow earlier on in order to establish why she's there. why is she looking after Dorothy? why is she interested in dorothy? i mean hell - over the two hours the audience is barely interested in Dorothy so why in the hell would Glinda be?

[Boogiedown]

Sorry my above link isn't accessible. I hate that and usually check , this time I didn't. This one is available :


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DHzx2P4x63c


agree that Lena's part seems completely underutilized. she's completely disconnected from the movie. she should have been incorporated at least somehow earlier on in order to establish why she's there. why is she looking after Dorothy? why is she interested in dorothy? i mean hell - over the two hours the audience is barely interested in Dorothy so why in the hell would Glinda be?

hee hee.


Lena's opening line is totally off sync from her part's purpose... the movie's conclusion . Why is she telling Dorothy it doesn't matter where you are .....home is with you , no matter where you are ... just as she then reveals Dorothy can get home by tapping her shoes ..... why is she going home then??


Also this scene is kinda creepy . What are those floating teletubbies behind Glinda??

[Boogiedown]

Aside from a brief scene early in the film where Glinda causes the snowstorm that blows Dorothy into Oz, and then BELIEVE IN YOURSELF, that is it for Lena.
She might have very well shot it in one day since there wasn't much she had to do. I have seen one photo of Lena and Diana [[in costume) together on set. Diana is looking at Lena with a look of adoration while Lena seems to be expressing a point. I believe there is another photo of them together in an EBONY article on the film.

I think Lena did the film because it's director, Sidney Lumet, was her son-in-law at the time. She has said that she really wanted to play Evillene. In her Broadway show, she said something like ten years between movie roles is no joke. Take the job they offer you and do the best you can with it.

For me, Lena's BELIEVE IN YOURSELF is one of the high points of the film. A classic rendition that led to Diana's powerful rendition of HOME. A great one-two punch.

Wow what a brave son-in -law.

"I'm making a movie and there's a part in it for a witch, and I immediately thought of you!!!":p

[Ollie9]

Sorry my above link isn't accessible. I hate that and usually check , this time I didn't. This one is available :


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DHzx2P4x63c



hee hee.


Lena's opening line is totally off sync from her part's purpose... the movie's conclusion . Why is she telling Dorothy it doesn't matter where you are .....home is with you , no matter where you are ... just as she then reveals Dorothy can get home by tapping her shoes ..... why is she going home then??


Also this scene is kinda creepy . What are those floating teletubbies behind Glinda??

The floating teletubbies are quite possibly the worst thing in the entire movie.....
43 years later and i’m still trying to workout their relevance.

[sansradio]

The floating teletubbies are quite possibly the worst thing in the entire movie.....
43 years later and i’m still trying to workout their relevance.

Those are the Snow Babies. Their relevance? Your guess is as good as mine.

I became friendly with one of them in the '90s, who was a customer at the bookstore I managed. She's one of the ones who get face time. The film came up in conversation; she replied, "You know, I was in that movie." She went on to regale me with a great story about how Lena was so grandmotherly and concerned for the kids during the shoot and would chastise Lumet about their working conditions. Leigh [[my friend) channeled Lena's Macon-Georgia-by-way-of-Brooklyn accent perfectly [["The bay-bizz! The bay-bizz! Somebody feed those bay-bizz!"). She also told me that she received roughly an $8 residuals check every year from Universal [[I'm sure it's a fraction of that these days). Leigh is now an associate professor at UCBerkeley. ;)

[Boogiedown]

The floating teletubbies are quite possibly the worst thing in the entire movie.....
43 years later and i’m still trying to workout their relevance.

It would sure be nice to be able to ask, "what were you thinking?"

For me the very worst thing in the entire movie is the sweaty underarms at 1:41, 1:46 in the hoedown scene:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TQkNGLn_UtA

unforgivable. Of course today they could easily clean that up in post production, but back then , somebody should have yelled "cut!" , or blame the editor , he couldn't have used a different angle?

vv that's a good one khansperac lol! vv

[khansperac]

Well, it was a sweat shop.

[midnightman]

My favorite scene ironically was when Mable King went into No Bad News lol

There were also horrible production as far as the camera went. I mean they zoomed so far out from the initial Ease on Down the Road sequence that you barely saw MJ and Diana "ease on down the road"...

[Ollie9]

Those are the Snow Babies. Their relevance? Your guess is as good as mine.

I became friendly with one of them in the '90s, who was a customer at the bookstore I managed. She's one of the ones who get face time. The film came up in conversation; she replied, "You know, I was in that movie." She went on to regale me with a great story about how Lena was so grandmotherly and concerned for the kids during the shoot and would chastise Lumet about their working conditions. Leigh [[my friend) channeled Lena's Macon-Georgia-by-way-of-Brooklyn accent perfectly [["The bay-bizz! The bay-bizz! Somebody feed those bay-bizz!"). She also told me that she received roughly an $8 residuals check every year from Universal [[I'm sure it's a fraction of that these days). Leigh is now an associate professor at UCBerkeley. ;)

Many thanks for sharing such a nice recollection sans. I have never heard or read anything negative about the lovely M’s Horn.
Perhaps the Snow Babies were the ones responsible for helping to create the snow blizzard that whisked Dorothy off to Oz..........Yea, I know. :eek:

[nomis]

Lena was a guest on the 1963/64 ill - fated but at times exceptionally brilliant weekly CBS "Judy Garland Show"... Judy was plagued with mental health problems and addiction and her behaviour at times - as it had for years, threw the show into turmoil..Lena was cool as ice waiting for a late Garland to show up to rehearse the complicated Medley they would perform together.. she was sympathetic to Judys inner battle and didnt complain about her waiting for the star to get it together and work..while others in production whispered how rude it was to make a talent of Hornes stature waiting..Lena showed class not provoking the situation

[Ollie9]

Lena was a guest on the 1963/64 ill - fated but at times exceptionally brilliant weekly CBS "Judy Garland Show"... Judy was plagued with mental health problems and addiction and her behaviour at times - as it had for years, threw the show into turmoil..Lena was cool as ice waiting for a late Garland to show up to rehearse the complicated Medley they would perform together.. she was sympathetic to Judys inner battle and didnt complain about her waiting for the star to get it together and work..while others in production whispered how rude it was to make a talent of Hornes stature waiting..Lena showed class not provoking the situation

Many years ago I once met someone at a party who had worked with Lena Horne. I remember him telling me that she was a genuinely lovely lady who was interested and supportive of everyone she met.
Never sure if that well documented story about Diana refusing to share a dressing room with Lena while filming The Wiz was just nonsense. In fairness to Diana, as leading lady i would not have welcomed the idea of doubling up either.

[sansradio]

Many years ago I once met someone at a party who had worked with Lena Horne. I remember him telling me that she was a genuinely lovely lady who was interested and supportive of everyone she met.
Never sure if that well documented story about Diana refusing to share a dressing room with Lena while filming The Wiz was just nonsense. In fairness to Diana, as leading lady i would not have welcomed the idea of doubling up either.

Lena said, in an Ebony magazine cover story, that Diana was “sweet as pie” to her throughout the shoot. And at that stage her career, Lena wasn’t one to bite her tongue. In another interview shortly after Lumet and her daughter Gail divorced, Lena referred to him as “the bastard—and you can print it.”

[sup_fan]

Many years ago I once met someone at a party who had worked with Lena Horne. I remember him telling me that she was a genuinely lovely lady who was interested and supportive of everyone she met.
Never sure if that well documented story about Diana refusing to share a dressing room with Lena while filming The Wiz was just nonsense. In fairness to Diana, as leading lady i would not have welcomed the idea of doubling up either.

the 'refusing to share' bit might have been spun into a diva moment when really it might have been founded on common sense. Diana was the lead in the movie and therefore in every [[or nearly every) scene. we all know what a serious and committed worker she is. often times actors need total space prior to performing. they need to focus on themselves and the character, their motivations, how they'll react, etc. to do this, they need to be uninterrupted and significant degree of seclusion.

Diana mentions later that while preparing for Out of Darkness, she had the boys move in with their father since she didn't want them to be scared by her immersion in the role, mood changes, stress, etc.

So it's easy for someone to interpret this as "oh the heifer! who does she think she is?!?!?" when really it's about her need to prepare herself for this role

i would guess it was a similar situation back in the Sups days when Berry separated the dressing rooms. like it or not, diana was really carrying the bulk of the show. she was under immense stress and pressure. when you add in the disintegration of the relationship between the girls, it isn't really that hard to see why she just needed to get away. seems like she's the type of person that draw her energy from being alone. in order to hit that stage and be DIANA ROSS she needed to focus and draw all her energies. if the Flo problems and all were too much for that, then for the sake of the show it makes some sense

[TheMotownManiac]

At The sold-out sneak preview in St. Louis, the audience grew restless within 30 minutes. Less than an hour into it there was a steady stream of shuffling in the seats coughing, people getting up and going to buy candy go to the bathroom and have a cigarette or stuff and come back. For the next hour, traffic back-and-forth increased and every time diana ross began to sing another song groups of people got up, it wasn’t just me, it was a major disappointment to everyone there. People enjoyed you can’t win, and the fact that it finally ended, and nobody left with a song in their heart and a song on their lips. People got up, if anything they were glum, and try to start the long walk to the exit. You know a picture isn’t working when a special theme song commissioned to be written by Ashford & Simpson as the main piece of music throughout the show, is cut from the final release print because the audience could not stand one more ballad. For its time, it was a dismal failure. Word of mouth could not have been worse. The soundtrack album was also a dismal failure compared to what was expected and cut out bins were littered with them for years. Yes, It went gold because it shipped so many copies initially, but that’s the only reason. Had returns and write off’s been included in its final numbers, it would not have gone Gold.
Over 40 years later, audiences see it differentlly. It’s amazing to me that people like it now because I was almost sick when I saw it. There were a few moments that I liked a lot, but 95% of a movie to me was just terrible. Even the World trade Center sequence, which I later found out was plagued with problems and time constraints, seemed a hot mess considering it was such a brilliantly conceived and executed sequence, but filming was riddled with issues that could not be corrected. I hated the costumes, a lot of the sets, 99% of the dialogue, much of the acting, and all of the special effects. With movies like Star Wars and Superman preceding it, this look like something a kindergarten class would’ve produced. I know people who were at the world premiere in New York and they said the film was loved by everybody there and it was predicted to be a huge hit. When they saw the second time they threw up and could only explain that it must have been all the star power there and the excitement that made people think what they were seeing was wonderful entertainment. I’m glad people like it now, if it brings happiness to anybody that’s a wonderful thing and that’s what it was meant for. For 1978, it was a disaster of epic proportion’s.

[sup_fan]

i wonder if the preachy EST crap had been eliminated, if the script would have been better. endless dribble about finding yourself and being true could be tossed and instead focus on plot and character development

then tighten up the scenes. probably just about every scene could be trimmed 5 - 10% in dialog, shots, duration.

as mentioned above, Glinda should have more of a role. i think the 1939 movie was right to consolidate the good witches into one. so the Wiz should have followed that.

[Boogiedown]

At The sold-out sneak preview in St. Louis, the audience grew restless within 30 minutes. Less than an hour into it there was a steady stream of shuffling in the seats coughing, people getting up and going to buy candy go to the bathroom and have a cigarette or stuff and come back. For the next hour, traffic back-and-forth increased and every time diana ross began to sing another song groups of people got up, it wasn’t just me, it was a major disappointment to everyone there. People enjoyed you can’t win, and the fact that it finally ended, and nobody left with a song in their heart and a song on their lips. People got up, if anything they were glum, and try to start the long walk to the exit. You know a picture isn’t working when a special theme song commissioned to be written by Ashford & Simpson as the main piece of music throughout the show, is cut from the final release print because the audience could not stand one more ballad. For its time, it was a dismal failure. Word of mouth could not have been worse. The soundtrack album was also a dismal failure compared to what was expected and cut out bins were littered with them for years. Yes, It went gold because it shipped so many copies initially, but that’s the only reason. Had returns and write off’s been included in its final numbers, it would not have gone Gold.
Over 40 years later, audiences see it differentlly. It’s amazing to me that people like it now because I was almost sick when I saw it. There were a few moments that I liked a lot, but 95% of a movie to me was just terrible. Even the World trade Center sequence, which I later found out was plagued with problems and time constraints, seemed a hot mess considering it was such a brilliantly conceived and executed sequence, but filming was riddled with issues that could not be corrected. I hated the costumes, a lot of the sets, 99% of the dialogue, much of the acting, and all of the special effects. With movies like Star Wars and Superman preceding it, this look like something a kindergarten class would’ve produced. I know people who were at the world premiere in New York and they said the film was loved by everybody there and it was predicted to be a huge hit. When they saw the second time they threw up and could only explain that it must have been all the star power there and the excitement that made people think what they were seeing was wonderful entertainment. I’m glad people like it now, if it brings happiness to anybody that’s a wonderful thing and that’s what it was meant for. For 1978, it was a disaster of epic proportion’s.


Very interesting first hand account , Motown Maniac. You've made me think of an experience I had with a movie called CANT STOP THE MUSIC , a vehicle contrived solely to cash in on The Village People's popularity. I went to the premiere in San Francisco , not knowing what to expect ....certainly not GONE WITH THE WIND.... but also certainly not the disaster it was.
It was a purposeless waste of time .... I found myself hoping to find a side door to exit because there were no words I could find to be complementary for the reception crowd waiting in the lobby. As it turned out , they already seemed to be dreading what the response would be while having to greet people, and from listening to others and noticing the quick dispersal of the after crowd , it was clear that my reaction was universal ,everybody seemed to be red-faced about the entire thing. Lol!

I guess I was hopeful that this would be disco's masterpiece on film , or at worst some off beat campy fun like ROCKY HORROR, not sure why I would hope for any of that after already experiencing the horrendous THANK GOD ITS FRIDAY, and not much better SATURDAY NIGHT FEVER , a movie I almost walked out of midway. I guess I thought surely they'd learned something and it could only go up from there- lol!





https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wqeQWYwVFo0

do the milk 'shake'.....:rolleyes:!!



can't stop the music?? this just might [[ maybe it did?) !!! lol!




added : no I'm not in any way comparing this to The Wiz.....which I think had the best of intentions ...

[Ollie9]

At The sold-out sneak preview in St. Louis, the audience grew restless within 30 minutes. Less than an hour into it there was a steady stream of shuffling in the seats coughing, people getting up and going to buy candy go to the bathroom and have a cigarette or stuff and come back. For the next hour, traffic back-and-forth increased and every time diana ross began to sing another song groups of people got up, it wasn’t just me, it was a major disappointment to everyone there. People enjoyed you can’t win, and the fact that it finally ended, and nobody left with a song in their heart and a song on their lips. People got up, if anything they were glum, and try to start the long walk to the exit. You know a picture isn’t working when a special theme song commissioned to be written by Ashford & Simpson as the main piece of music throughout the show, is cut from the final release print because the audience could not stand one more ballad. For its time, it was a dismal failure. Word of mouth could not have been worse. The soundtrack album was also a dismal failure compared to what was expected and cut out bins were littered with them for years. Yes, It went gold because it shipped so many copies initially, but that’s the only reason. Had returns and write off’s been included in its final numbers, it would not have gone Gold.
Over 40 years later, audiences see it differentlly. It’s amazing to me that people like it now because I was almost sick when I saw it. There were a few moments that I liked a lot, but 95% of a movie to me was just terrible. Even the World trade Center sequence, which I later found out was plagued with problems and time constraints, seemed a hot mess considering it was such a brilliantly conceived and executed sequence, but filming was riddled with issues that could not be corrected. I hated the costumes, a lot of the sets, 99% of the dialogue, much of the acting, and all of the special effects. With movies like Star Wars and Superman preceding it, this look like something a kindergarten class would’ve produced. I know people who were at the world premiere in New York and they said the film was loved by everybody there and it was predicted to be a huge hit. When they saw the second time they threw up and could only explain that it must have been all the star power there and the excitement that made people think what they were seeing was wonderful entertainment. I’m glad people like it now, if it brings happiness to anybody that’s a wonderful thing and that’s what it was meant for. For 1978, it was a disaster of epic proportion’s.

Its uncanny, but reading your post I was transported back 43 years to when the film opened in London. The disappointment in the the audience was tangible. At the end people filed out of the exits in complete and utter silence looking rather downcast.
I later attended a matinee, when i should have been at school. This was Diana Ross on the big screen after all. It felt rather odd as other then me, the place was entirely empty.

[TheMotownManiac]

Its uncanny, but reading your post I was transported back 43 years to when the film opened in London. The disappointment in the the audience was tangible. At the end people filed out of the exits in complete and utter silence looking rather downcast.
I later attended a matinee, when i should have been at school. This was Diana Ross on the big screen after all. It felt rather odd as other then me, the place was entirely empty.

“International disdain for The Wiz”

”Wiz: Wasted Wanker”...............UK Variety

[TheMotownManiac]

Very interesting first hand account , Motown Maniac. You've made me think of an experience I had with a movie called CANT STOP THE MUSIC , a vehicle contrived solely to cash in on The Village People's popularity. I went to the premiere in San Francisco , not knowing what to expect ....certainly not GONE WITH THE WIND.... but also certainly not the disaster it was.
It was a purposeless waste of time .... I found myself hoping to find a side door to exit because there were no words I could find to be complementary for the reception crowd waiting in the lobby. As it turned out , they already seemed to be dreading what the response would be while having to greet people, and from listening to others and noticing the quick dispersal of the after crowd , it was clear that my reaction was universal ,everybody seemed to be red-faced about the entire thing. Lol!

I guess I was hopeful that this would be disco's masterpiece on film , or at worst some off beat campy fun like ROCKY HORROR, not sure why I would hope for any of that after already experiencing the horrendous THANK GOD ITS FRIDAY, and not much better SATURDAY NIGHT FEVER , a movie I almost walked out of midway. I guess I thought surely they'd learned something and it could only go up from there- lol!





https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wqeQWYwVFo0

do the milk 'shake'.....:rolleyes:!!



can't stop the music?? this just might [[ maybe it did?) !!! lol!




added : no I'm not in any way comparing this to The Wiz.....which I think had the best of intentions ...

It WAS torture, but Bruce Jenner was cute, so we went - I think we had passes or snuck in or something, we probably went to another movie and then climbed over the rope because I can’t imagine paying to see it as I knew it wasn’t my type of film and I never went to thank God it’s Friday even though ross had a Song in it. The Wiz tragedy was taking a hit Broadway musical with a gigantic budget and a bunch of big stars and making bleeech out of it. It was a bigger disappointment than the I love you album, Akin, feeling-wise perhaps to the Donald Trump election night disaster. We did get a few laughs out of those creepy shots of the snow babies and the crazy faces Lena Horne was making which looked like someone was goosing her from the back to get a reaction out of her. Ughhhh..... The title sequence was a harbinger of things to come, unfortunately. But I loved the harmonica solo of home, and the fact that they played ease on down the road over the universal logo at the beginning. Basting the Turkey, spilling the checkers, snow that doesn’t melt in the star’s mouth, I’m not going to do this. All of my daffodils are up and they look wonderful! Spring is here! Daphne, hyacinths, crocus, tulips - life is good!

[Ollie9]

“International disdain for The Wiz”

”Wiz: Wasted Wanker”...............UK Variety

I wonder why “wanker”. :confused: I don’t suppose you have the article?.
Do you think the Wiz could ever have worked with Diana cast as Dorothy?.

[vgalindo]

I was at the premier at the theatre in my hometown. The lines were long down the block. It was sold out. It was so exciting seeing Diana Ross’ name all lighted up on the marquee. Went with a group of my friends from high school. The audience and my friends seemed to be having a good time and really enjoyed it. However I cringed through most of it. After all of the promotion and buildup. I was so anxious to see this film. I could hardly wait. But I was so disappointed. I couldn’t believe my friends liked it. The problem for me was the look of Diana Ross. It ruined the movie for me. They made her look terrible. IMO. Even though she was in her 30s. They could of made her look like a young girl or woman. That short afro and makeup was hideous. The set looked cheap and the director was all wrong. I can hardly sit through it. It drags. However I do love the
performance by Diana of “Home”. It really did bring the audience to their feet. That was an awesome performance.

[Ollie9]

I was at the premier at the theatre in my hometown. The lines were long down the block. It was sold out. It was so exciting seeing Diana Ross’ name all lighted up on the marquee. Went with a group of my friends from high school. The audience and my friends seemed to be having a good time and really enjoyed it. However I cringed through most of it. After all of the promotion and buildup. I was so anxious to see this film. I could hardly wait. But I was so disappointed. I couldn’t believe my friends liked it. The problem for me was the look of Diana Ross. It ruined the movie for me. They made her look terrible. IMO. Even though she was in her 30s. They could of made her look like a young girl or woman. That short afro and makeup was hideous. The set looked cheap and the director was all wrong. I can hardly sit through it. It drags. However I do love the
performance by Diana of “Home”. It really did bring the audience to their feet. That was an awesome performance.

It’s interesting how often our personal enjoyment is so influenced by physical beauty. Often when reading DR posts on you tube, the only comments left are on how beautiful she might look. A beautiful diva, goddess etc etc.
The thing I love about Diana is that she is not a celeb who feels the need to be seen looking buff all the time. Lady Sings The Blues and Out Of Darkness are testimony to this.
I really liked it when on Oprah she spoke lightheartedly about people seeing the real Diana Ross.

[JLoveLamar]

1. Diana plays the role as if she were appearing in Shakespeare In The Park. she's almost frighteningly serious. and if she isn't stone faced serious, she's screaming at the top of her lungs. basically she's totally neurotic


This cracked me up, ESPECIALLY the last sentence! Me, personally, I Love The Wiz. So sad that it bombed. I think it looks great, the songs are fantastic, I love the characters, and I love the theme. I wish Glinda could've had 20 more minutes of screen time. LMAO @ Diana Neurotic, tho

[Bluebrock]

This cracked me up, ESPECIALLY the last sentence! Me, personally, I Love The Wiz. So sad that it bombed. I think it looks great, the songs are fantastic, I love the characters, and I love the theme. I wish Glinda could've had 20 more minutes of screen time. LMAO @ Diana Neurotic, tho

The movie was appallingly bad. I have still not managed to watch it through to the very end despite numerous attempts, but the soundtrack was wonderful. Ms Ross rarely sounded better, and it still annoys me that we never got the proposed studio album with Quincy.

[sup_fan]

The movie was appallingly bad. I have still not managed to watch it through to the very end despite numerous attempts, but the soundtrack was wonderful. Ms Ross rarely sounded better, and it still annoys me that we never got the proposed studio album with Quincy.

couldn't agree more. it's just a hideous movie. Diana's acting is mind boggling bad. this is like something out of a bad high school musical where they give the principal's undeserving daughter the lead. the filming is maddening as most of the dance scenes were essentially shot 3 miles from the actors. and from behind. the script totally ruins to story.

And while the soundtrack is the most redeeming thing of this project, i'd hardly say these are the most iconic and memorable songs to ever come out of a musical. Ease On Down is hands down the best. and that's not saying much

[nathanj06]

It was a hot mess with the exception of Brand New Day.

[sup_fan]

This cracked me up, ESPECIALLY the last sentence! Me, personally, I Love The Wiz. So sad that it bombed. I think it looks great, the songs are fantastic, I love the characters, and I love the theme. I wish Glinda could've had 20 more minutes of screen time. LMAO @ Diana Neurotic, tho

i wonder if anyone has counted the screentime of Diana just standing there screaming? that alone probably accounts for 10 mins minutes lol