Why Take Me Higher didn't catch on in U.S.

[Nitro2015]

I know that this topic has already been discussed a few times here, but I would like to resume the conversation in 2021. Recently, I was listening to this wonderful album and thinking about how it brings together all the ingredients for a successful album: excellent songs, a strong lead single, an updated and stylish look by Diana, a lot of promotion at the beginning, contemporary production and even a Superbowl halftime performance!!!. But the commercial result of the record was quite lackluster. No radio airplay, no significant sales. The album didn't even crack the Billboard Top 100. Why?

[jobeterob]

I know that this topic has already been discussed a few times here, but I would like to resume the conversation in 2021. Recently, I was listening to this wonderful album and thinking about how it brings together all the ingredients for a successful album: excellent songs, a strong lead single, an updated and stylish look by Diana, a lot of promotion at the beginning, contemporary production and even a Superbowl halftime performance!!!. But the commercial result of the record was quite lackluster. No radio airplay, no significant sales. The album didn't even crack the Billboard Top 100. Why?

Diana had been out of the mainstream of hit artists for a quite a while; I'm sure there was a quite a lot of ageism involved; perhaps some racism and sexism.

But I think mainly she was years beyond her peak and she would have needed a major tour and a major publicity campaign behind her from a large record company. And it wasn't there.

But it was an outstanding record. I think it's aged very well.

[PeaceNHarmony]

I don't wish to seem callus or glib, but the answer is easy. TME was released when Diana was 51 years old. How many top 40 singles have there been since, say, 1960 that were recorded by singers 51 years old? Some, sure. Many? Nope. And each time we drill-down to top 30, top 20, and top 10 the number decreases exponentially.

[Nitro2015]

Yes! But I mean... the album peaked at #114 on the Billboard Top 200. Really? It was not because ageism because older artists were still selling albums in U.S. in the 90's. I can understand why the single wasn't a major mainstream pop hit... her age at the time explains it. But she was barely selling albums and she was Diana Ross!!! And even the adult contemporary format wasn't very open to her. It's kinda strange.

[captainjames]

not sure but its my own personal gem.

[khansperac]

The ironic thing is, although the sales weren’t there, it was a visual comeback/video hit with the younger generation. Several of the videos were in rotation on video outlets.

[Circa 1824]

Fans and the record buying public had been burned over and over by her RCA duds, myself included. Interest in Ross and her new music was over. It had little to do with age. It had to do with repeated RCA garbage that ended her career as anything but an oldies artist. Tragic self-inflicted wounds proved incurable.

[jobeterob]

There were decent sales on several RCA singles and albums - Fools and Swept Away

If there was one album that really killed off interest, it was the Motown return - Workin Overtime

[vgalindo]

One simple answer. No promotion. Whoever was in charge at Motown was not interested in promoting it. Diana could of had a hit with a little backing from the label. I don’t believe age or the quality of the music had anything to do with it. IMO. Diana promoted the hell out of it on tv and concerts. Motown did nothing.

[Ollie9]

Unlike Europe, the American buying public is fairly fickle and extremely youth orientated. Diana could have released the most commercial album known to man and still the USA market would have turned it’s back.
I agree with Circa, in that the American record buying public had lost faith in her music after so many weak RCA releases.
The album did fairly well in Europe, but the image she was projecting was a little to young for her age. Sure she still looked fantastic, but that does not alter the fact she had by now entered her 50’s.
Perhaps that is the reason why a more MOR, adult orientated album such as FBTP really took off here in the UK. The public could still relate to her singing that kind of material.

[Jaap]

Take Me Higher did fairly well in the UK [[though far less than Force), but not that well in other European countries. I loved TMH when it came out, and still think it is a nice album -- solid production and some really good songs -- but I wasn't surprised back then that it wasn't a hit. With the exception of "Keep It Right There" and "Don't Stop," which was a newer sound for Ross, most of the songs were typically Ross; she had done similar songs before and those were often more memorable than these new ones. The album does not really have a song [[or single) that stands out... "Take Me Higher" is a great pop/dance track, but no "Upside Down." "Voice of Love" is a nice ballad, but rather generic and no show-stopper like "When You Tell Me That You Love Me" [[which I personally don't care for, but I understand why people like that song). When I played the album to my friends [[back then), they just heard another Diana Ross album, not an exciting new album.

[PeaceNHarmony]

I did a quick review of the top 100 albums of 1995 from Billboard's year-end charts. Out of those 100 lps, there were 3 that featured performers who were 50 or older: Barry White [[#60, The Icon is Love), Frank Sinatra [[#76, Duets II), and Pink Floyd's Dave Gimore & Roger Waters [[#85, Pulse).

[smallworld]

I agree that the material wasn't strong enough. "Take Me Higher" was a strong lead but dance pop wasn't the dominant force in North America by 1995. Diana needed foolproof material. A couple of years later, Cher got it with "Believe." Wiki suggests that Cher's 1998 album was mixed to poor in terms of critical reception but it nevertheless sold three and a half million. The title track put it over the top.

[Ollie9]

The TMH album was without doubt a quality release. I think a huge mistake was in ignoring the potential of “Swing It” as a single.
It was certainly more relevant sounding then TMH and might have done very well.... At least in Europe.
For the American market Diana’s only chance of pop success would have been with the remix of “I Will, We Will, You Will”. ;)
I can remember back in the day playing the album for a group friends with “Swing It” being the song they said they liked the most. Odd it’s immediate potential was never utilised.

[Nitro2015]

I agree that the material wasn't strong enough. "Take Me Higher" was a strong lead but dance pop wasn't the dominant force in North America by 1995. Diana needed foolproof material. A couple of years later, Cher got it with "Believe." Wiki suggests that Cher's 1998 album was mixed to poor in terms of critical reception but it nevertheless sold three and a half million. The title track put it over the top.

I remember that Cher's Believe album debuted really low in the Billboard 200 chart. It didn't even cracked the Top 100 in the first week, as Diana's 90's albums. But something happened and a few weeks later the album became a best seller. Cher's career in U.S., as Diana's, was at a really low point before the phenomenon that was Believe [[the single). In UK, it was another story. The single debuted already at #1. But this type of thing only happens once in a lifetime. Even having the biggest single of 1998/1999, Cher couldn't score another Top 40 single in U.S. Her follow up singles from the same album were met with indifference by the U.S. mainstream public.

[Nitro2015]

The ironic thing is, although the sales weren’t there, it was a visual comeback/video hit with the younger generation. Several of the videos were in rotation on video outlets.

Diana looked so gorgeous in the video. I can understand why it had good rotation.

[Nitro2015]

I did a quick review of the top 100 albums of 1995 from Billboard's year-end charts. Out of those 100 lps, there were 3 that featured performers who were 50 or older: Barry White [[#60, The Icon is Love), Frank Sinatra [[#76, Duets II), and Pink Floyd's Dave Gimore & Roger Waters [[#85, Pulse).

Okay, but many veteran artists had gold and platinum albums in the 90's. Aretha, Tina, Elton etc.

I'm not talking about Diana scoring a Janet-type of success in 1995. But a gold certification could have been achieved by a good album as TMH.

What I don't understand is why her record company didn't help her in the adult contemporary and adult R&B markets. She could have done well in these formats. At least, she had a # 1 dance hit with TMH!

[Nitro2015]

An example: Patti Labelle's 1997 "Flame" album peaked at #39 in the Billboard 200 and achieved platinum status in U.S. and Patti wasn't a mainstream pop artist. She achieved that with right strategies and her music being played in the adult formats.

[reese]

An example: Patti Labelle's 1997 "Flame" album peaked at #39 in the Billboard 200 and achieved platinum status in U.S. and Patti wasn't a mainstream pop artist. She achieved that with right strategies and her music being played in the adult formats.

But it should also be remembered that although Diana and Patti were the same age, Patti never had the consistent sales success that Diana did until fairly late in her career. Once she finally broke through as a solo artist in 1983 and then really 1985, it was almost as if she was an exciting new artist. As such, she had quite a bit of success from 1985 to 1997. But after FLAME, I don't think she had another major hit single or another gold album.

[reese]

Okay, but many veteran artists had gold and platinum albums in the 90's. Aretha, Tina, Elton etc.

I'm not talking about Diana scoring a Janet-type of success in 1995. But a gold certification could have been achieved by a good album as TMH.

What I don't understand is why her record company didn't help her in the adult contemporary and adult R&B markets. She could have done well in these formats. At least, she had a # 1 dance hit with TMH!

Aretha had Clive Davis promoting her to the utmost. Also, as the years passed, it seemed that her respect from the industry and the public at large just grew. When she had her last major hit with A ROSE IS STILL A ROSE, she was 56 years old. Not bad for a woman whose first hit was when she was 18. And even then, she also benefited from memorable tv appearances like the first DIVAS LIVE or standing in for Pavarotti at the Grammys. Later on, she still managed to stay in the news with that hat that she wore at Obama's inaugural.

By the 90s, in the US, Tina's record sales had slowed down. In a sense, Tina was saved by the successful film on her life, which led to her last US hit, I DON'T WANNA FIGHT. Plus she was a solid touring attraction, no matter what her record sales might be. Her WILDEST DREAMS album wasn't even certified gold here, yet all of her tours were successful.

For the most part, Diana didn't really that high of a profile in the US at the time, certainly not the same respect. I think to the general public, she was "Miss Ross" the diva. I don't think there's anything she could have done differently to make things result in a hit album, no matter how great it was. In recent years, the appreciation of her has overtaken the negative, IMO, and people have recognized just what a treasure she is. Her last album I LOVE YOU charted very high, probably because she did some key tv appearances but also because it was released in the midst of the DREAMGIRLS film promotion.

[Nitro2015]

But it should also be remembered that although Diana and Patti were the same age, Patti never had the consistent sales success that Diana did until fairly late in her career. Once she finally broke through as a solo artist in 1983 and then really 1985, it was almost as if she was an exciting new artist. As such, she had quite a bit of success from 1985 to 1997. But after FLAME, I don't think she had another major hit single or another gold album.

I hear you. Something similar happened with Tina, although Tina was much more successful than Patti between those years. And Tina, as Diana, was a global superstar. But in the 1990's she was somewhat still contemporary because her mega stardom came so late in her career. In the 1990's Diana was already seen as a icon from another era.

[Guy]

I know that this topic has already been discussed a few times here, but I would like to resume the conversation in 2021. Recently, I was listening to this wonderful album and thinking about how it brings together all the ingredients for a successful album: excellent songs, a strong lead single, an updated and stylish look by Diana, a lot of promotion at the beginning, contemporary production and even a Superbowl halftime performance!!!. But the commercial result of the record was quite lackluster. No radio airplay, no significant sales. The album didn't even crack the Billboard Top 100. Why?

I am a huge Ross fan but after the back-to-back disappointment of WO and FBTP, I gave up. I didn't even buy TMH [[until after I had EDIAND). During that mid-90s period there were so many exciting younger artists [[MJB, Janet, Me'Shell, Chante, Aaliyah, Erykah, Mariah, Lauryn, Deborah, Tamia, Mica, Joi, etc) -- it made Ross seem like a relic. and I've never liked her recording of "I Will Survive." I wasn't even moved by her [[spectacular) SuperBowl half-time performance.

But she has proved that if you just keep doing your thing the world will come back around to you. She is a legend and some of those "exciting younger artists" of the mid-90s are barely remembered -- and certainly can't sellout the Hollywood Bowl.

[Nitro2015]

I am a huge Ross fan but after the back-to-back disappointment of WO and FBTP, I gave up. I didn't even buy TMH [[until after I had EDIAND). During that mid-90s period there were so many exciting younger artists [[MJB, Janet, Me'Shell, Chante, Aaliyah, Erykah, Mariah, Lauryn, Deborah, Tamia, Mica, Joi, etc) -- it made Ross seem like a relic. and I've never liked her recording of "I Will Survive." I wasn't even moved by her [[spectacular) SuperBowl half-time performance.

But she has proved that if you just keep doing your thing the world will come back around to you. She is a legend and some of those "exciting younger artists" of the mid-90s are barely remembered -- and certainly can't sellout the Hollywood Bowl.

So true. Many artists who were selling big numbers in 1995 and scoring smash hits are nowhere to be found now. From that time, Janet is probably the only one who is still a big touring act, even after many career missteps. And Diana is still going strong, she survived so much and so many contemporary acts in the music industry: Michael, Whitney, Brandy, Monica, TLC and the list goes on. Diana is still selling tickets and still giving high profile performances [[Grammys, AMAs, etc.). Her 2020 European tour was the biggest living proof of her standing power. It's a pity that Covid got in the way. The largest arenas and big numbers. She is a real survivor.

[gman]

I was a huge Ross fan up to and including Eaten Alive...although, the first 3 RCA Lps were never in my collection.
I managed to swoop up a few dozen used CD's when I purchased someone's record collection....TMH,WO, and ILY were included....sorry to say, there was nothing likable there for me

[rovereab]

It does seem that Diana Ross has phases of popularity in the US whereas in the UK she is enduringly popular. I have friends in their 20s and 30s who admire her work, from the early days to he most recent material. Diana is "just there" in the UK's musical thinking, along with the other Motown greats.

I think the admiration would have been further underpinned with the combination of Glastonbury and the UK tour. I'm sure the icing on her "UK cake" would have been new material, having said that, Diana has earned significant respect for all she has given us over the years.

Although I am no expert on such matters and have no wish to offend anyone, I do wonder if the key difference between the UK and the US is the what Diana represented. It is clear from what I have read that the Supremes demonstrated in the US how black women can be just as, and possibly more, successful than white women. As far as I am aware the Supremes were never seen that way in the UK. They were talented ladies who just happened to be black. A very different "starting point". Perhaps this accounts for the US phases of success verses the enduring success in the UK?

[Ollie9]

It does seem that Diana Ross has phases of popularity in the US whereas in the UK she is enduringly popular. I have friends in their 20s and 30s who admire her work, from the early days to he most recent material. Diana is "just there" in the UK's musical thinking, along with the other Motown greats.

I think the admiration would have been further underpinned with the combination of Glastonbury and the UK tour. I'm sure the icing on her "UK cake" would have been new material, having said that, Diana has earned significant respect for all she has given us over the years.

Although I am no expert on such matters and have no wish to offend anyone, I do wonder if the key difference between the UK and the US is the what Diana represented. It is clear from what I have read that the Supremes demonstrated in the US how black women can be just as, and possibly more, successful than white women. As far as I am aware the Supremes were never seen that way in the UK. They were talented ladies who just happened to be black. A very different "starting point". Perhaps this accounts for the US phases of success verses the enduring success in the UK?

I’m quite sure the massive crossover success of the Supremes proved to be just as inspiring to black men and women resident here in the UK as they were in America.. That is one of the groups most enduring legacies.
UK audiences are generally known for their loyalty and unwavering support regarding veteran acts. We really are quite lovely. ;)

[Nitro2015]

I’m quite sure the massive crossover success of the Supremes proved to be just as inspiring to black men and women resident here in the UK as they were in America.. That is one of the groups most enduring legacies.
UK audiences are generally known for their loyalty and unwavering support regarding veteran acts. We really are quite lovely. ;)

I feel that her career in U.S. was almost eclipsed by the whole Supremes debacle after Mary Wilson's reductionist Dreamgirl and Randy's ill-intentioned Call Her Miss Ross. Both books made huge money for their authors with questionable intentions. And the money came from exploring and denigrating Diana's image. The inconsistency in terms of musical quality after she moved to RCA also didn't help but her public image suffered several setbacks.

During the 1990's, while she was doing so well in UK and Japan, among other territories, she was treated/viewed as some kinda of pariah in her own homeland. A very disturbing turn of events.

Then with the end of her marriage, the controversy surrounding RTL Tour and, subsequently and justifiably, her depression/addiction problems in the turn of the century, you could see that all the backlash took its toll on her. She felt unloved and rejected after decades of hard work and after having given so much to the public and the music industry. It was very disturbing and unfair. She wasn't guilty of her talent, ambition and x-factor. You have it or you don't. She had it and made good use of it.

But, fortunately, she bounced back with enormous integrity and dignity. And was finally recognized as the national treasure that she is, with the most valuable accolades as the Kennedy Center Honors, Grammy Lifetime Achievement and Presidential Medal of Freedom.

The fact is: there would be no Supremes, Michael, Madonna, Janet, Beyoncé and many others without Diana. She was the blueprint and the force behind it all. A true pioneer.

[reese]

I feel that her career in U.S. was almost eclipsed by the whole Supremes debacle after Mary Wilson's reductionist Dreamgirl and Randy's ill-intentioned Call Her Miss Ross. Both books made huge money for their authors with questionable intentions. And the money came from exploring and denigrating Diana's image. The inconsistency in terms of musical quality after she moved to RCA also didn't help but her public image suffered several setbacks.

During the 1990's, while she was doing so well in UK and Japan, among other territories, she was treated/viewed as some kinda of pariah in her own homeland. A very disturbing turn of events.

Then with the end of her marriage, the controversy surrounding RTL Tour and, subsequently and justifiably, her depression/addiction problems in the turn of the century, you could see that all the backlash took its toll on her. She felt unloved and rejected after decades of hard work and after having given so much to the public and the music industry. It was very disturbing and unfair. She wasn't guilty of her talent, ambition and x-factor. You have it or you don't. She had it and made good use of it.

But, fortunately, she bounced back with enormous integrity and dignity. And was finally recognized as the nacional treasure that she is, with the most valuable accolades as the Kennedy Center Honors, Grammy Lifetime Achievement and Presidential Medal of Freedom.

The fact is: there would be no Supremes, Michael, Madonna, Janet, Beyoncé and many others without Diana. She was the blueprint and the force behind it all. A true pioneer.

It is also worth mentioning that during the years when pop chart success was elusive, Diana was still charting fairly well on the r&b soul chart.

Songs like PIECES OF ICE, TELEPHONE, and DIRTY LOOKS were top 20 hits on that chart. EATEN ALIVE, WORKIN' OVERTIME, and NO MATTER WHAT YOU DO actually hit the Top 10.

Even later singles like WHEN YOU TELL ME THAT YOU LOVE ME, TAKE ME HIGHER, and IF YOU'RE NOT GONNA LOVE ME RIGHT charted, although they weren't successful. But it shows there was still some interest, if only minimal.

[rovereab]

At the time of TMH's release in the UK, Diana hosted a radio station breakfast show. Was anything like done in the US?

[reese]

At the time of TMH's release in the UK, Diana hosted a radio station breakfast show. Was anything like done in the US?

Not sure if she did any radio spots here in the US. As I recall, she didn't do any of the morning TV shows. I do remember her being a guest on an episode of VIDEO SOUL on BET, as well as THE TONIGHT SHOW, THE LATE SHOW WITH DAVID LETTERMAN, and SOUL TRAIN's 25TH ANNIVERSARY SPECIAL.

She also did a record signing at a store in California, The Warehouse, I think it was called.

[PeaceNHarmony]

I feel that her career in U.S. was almost eclipsed by the whole Supremes debacle after Mary Wilson's reductionist Dreamgirl and Randy's ill-intentioned Call Her Miss Ross. Both books made huge money for their authors with questionable intentions. And the money came from exploring and denigrating Diana's image. The inconsistency in terms of musical quality after she moved to RCA also didn't help but her public image suffered several setbacks.

During the 1990's, while she was doing so well in UK and Japan, among other territories, she was treated/viewed as some kinda of pariah in her own homeland. A very disturbing turn of events.

Then with the end of her marriage, the controversy surrounding RTL Tour and, subsequently and justifiably, her depression/addiction problems in the turn of the century, you could see that all the backlash took its toll on her. She felt unloved and rejected after decades of hard work and after having given so much to the public and the music industry. It was very disturbing and unfair. She wasn't guilty of her talent, ambition and x-factor. You have it or you don't. She had it and made good use of it.

But, fortunately, she bounced back with enormous integrity and dignity. And was finally recognized as the national treasure that she is, with the most valuable accolades as the Kennedy Center Honors, Grammy Lifetime Achievement and Presidential Medal of Freedom.

The fact is: there would be no Supremes, Michael, Madonna, Janet, Beyoncé and many others without Diana. She was the blueprint and the force behind it all. A true pioneer.Very well stated and factually correct. I was so disappointed with the route Wilson chose to take with her book, and even Taraborrelli himself realized the disservice he did to Diana. Both these were National Enquirer-type hack jobs that would not have sold a copy were it not for the inherent character assassination in both books.

[Ollie9]

I feel that her career in U.S. was almost eclipsed by the whole Supremes debacle after Mary Wilson's reductionist Dreamgirl and Randy's ill-intentioned Call Her Miss Ross. Both books made huge money for their authors with questionable intentions. And the money came from exploring and denigrating Diana's image. The inconsistency in terms of musical quality after she moved to RCA also didn't help but her public image suffered several setbacks.

During the 1990's, while she was doing so well in UK and Japan, among other territories, she was treated/viewed as some kinda of pariah in her own homeland. A very disturbing turn of events.

Then with the end of her marriage, the controversy surrounding RTL Tour and, subsequently and justifiably, her depression/addiction problems in the turn of the century, you could see that all the backlash took its toll on her. She felt unloved and rejected after decades of hard work and after having given so much to the public and the music industry. It was very disturbing and unfair. She wasn't guilty of her talent, ambition and x-factor. You have it or you don't. She had it and made good use of it.

But, fortunately, she bounced back with enormous integrity and dignity. And was finally recognized as the national treasure that she is, with the most valuable accolades as the Kennedy Center Honors, Grammy Lifetime Achievement and Presidential Medal of Freedom.

The fact is: there would be no Supremes, Michael, Madonna, Janet, Beyoncé and many others without Diana. She was the blueprint and the force behind it all. A true pioneer.

Some of it was unfair some not. As regards public relations, Diana was her worst enemy at times.
Kicking sound monitors off stage. The sudden dismissal of a large chunk of her workforce coupled by the infamous letter. The Motown 25 fiasco. Central Park children’s playground. Heathrow Airport scenario leading to her being detained in a cell. The public relations disaster of RTL. Arrested for driving down the freeway while intoxicated.
All of this added to her reputation as a spoilt, temperamental diva. Justified or not.
As you mention though, she did manage to bounce back and is now much regarded as a national treasure.

[Guy]

One simple answer. No promotion. Whoever was in charge at Motown was not interested in promoting it. Diana could of had a hit with a little backing from the label. I don’t believe age or the quality of the music had anything to do with it. IMO. Diana promoted the hell out of it on tv and concerts. Motown did nothing.

I also think there was no audience for TMH. As a Ross fan I eventually found enjoyable moments, but in the US "Take Me Higher" and "I Will Survive" were aimed at gay dance clubs and had little potential to be radio hits. The rest of the album was traditional Masser-esque balladry [[some of her best of latter years) or watered-down attempts to sound contemporary. If I was content to ignore it it would have had almost no appeal to anyone who was not a Ross fan.

At that time, her history of missteps as a solo recording artist was longer than her years of solo chart success. She was always 7-8 years behind the times in selecting a producer -- Gibb for EA and Nile for WO. I think Narada did TMH. At a time when she should have sought out the songwriters and producers making hits for Whitney, Mariah, Toni Braxton and MJB, she was still stuck in some other era.

Oddly enough, she was still determined NOT to go with Luther, Jam & Lewis, Babyface or Dave 'Jam' Hall. When she finally got Malik Pendleton and Chuckii Booker to give her a fresh sound on EIAND it was too late.

But as noted her mediocre efforts as a recording artist did not diminish her appeal as a superstar live performer. I sincerely hope I get the chance to see her again.

[mowsville]

Totally agree Guy..Diana was always a few years behind with selecting a producer..if you listen to most of her later albums and imagine they were made a few years before most of them would have fit perfectly.

[Ollie9]

I also think there was no audience for TMH. As a Ross fan I eventually found enjoyable moments, but in the US "Take Me Higher" and "I Will Survive" were aimed at gay dance clubs and had little potential to be radio hits. The rest of the album was traditional Masser-esque balladry [[some of her best of latter years) or watered-down attempts to sound contemporary. If I was content to ignore it it would have had almost no appeal to anyone who was not a Ross fan.

At that time, her history of missteps as a solo recording artist was longer than her years of solo chart success. She was always 7-8 years behind the times in selecting a producer -- Gibb for EA and Nile for WO. I think Narada did TMH. At a time when she should have sought out the songwriters and producers making hits for Whitney, Mariah, Toni Braxton and MJB, she was still stuck in some other era.

Oddly enough, she was still determined NOT to go with Luther, Jam & Lewis, Babyface or Dave 'Jam' Hall. When she finally got Malik Pendleton and Chuckii Booker to give her a fresh sound on EIAND it was too late.

But as noted her mediocre efforts as a recording artist did not diminish her appeal as a superstar live performer. I sincerely hope I get the chance to see her again.

I think your being a little harsh Guy. “I Will Survive” was a reasonable hit in the UK and i truly believe it would had provided Diana with that allusive pop hit in the USA had Motown decided to release it as a single.
Songs such as “Don’t Stop”, “Keep It Right There”, “Gone” and “Swing It” would certainly be considered contemporary for 95. In fact an entire album produced by the Boom Brothers should have been the way to go.
I really like the album, but do think she played it a little safe. I would have jettisoned a couple of those Martinelli produced ballads for more dance tracks. It would have added a little more bite to what is a rather slick album.

[Guy]

I think your being a little harsh Guy. “I Will Survive” was a reasonable hit in the UK and i truly believe it would had provided Diana with that allusive pop hit in the USA had Motown decided to release it as a single.
Songs such as “Don’t Stop”, “Keep It Right There”, “Gone” and “Swing It” would certainly be considered contemporary for 95. In fact an entire album produced by the Boom Brothers should have been the way to go.
I really like the album, but do think she played it a little safe. I would have jettisoned a couple of those Martinelli produced ballads for more dance tracks. It would have added a little more bite to what is a rather slick album.

Maybe it sounds harsh but in 1995 no Top 40 or Urban radio format in the U.S. would have played "I Will Survive." I can say that as a lifelong house music fan and connoiseur. Even dance artists who had big mainstream hits -- C+C Music Factory, CeCe Peniston, Robin S., Crystal Waters -- struggled to sustain as mid-90s radio moved to hip-hop and was less hospitable to club-oriented music.

In my opinion, TMH is saved by two of those Martinelli-produced ballads -- *Voice of the Heart" and "I Thought We Were Still In Love." Among her best latter-day ballads. None of the tracks you've cited by the Boom Brothers made an impression on me. It was not radio-ready material.

[Bluebrock]

At the time of TMH's release in the UK, Diana hosted a radio station breakfast show. Was anything like done in the US?
I remember her hosting the mid morning show on radio 1 from 9am-12 noon for 4 or 5 days. I think it was the old Simon Bates slot. I thought this was the FBTP era but i may be recalling it incorrectly, but she had an absolute ball hosting it.

[mowsville]

Bluebrock you are correct..it was during the FBTP era.

[rovereab]

I might be wrong but thinking about the radio programme, I think it was the Radio 1 Chris Evans show and Diana hosted one programme. As Bluebrock said, she had great fun.

[Ollie9]

Maybe it sounds harsh but in 1995 no Top 40 or Urban radio format in the U.S. would have played "I Will Survive." I can say that as a lifelong house music fan and connoiseur. Even dance artists who had big mainstream hits -- C+C Music Factory, CeCe Peniston, Robin S., Crystal Waters -- struggled to sustain as mid-90s radio moved to hip-hop and was less hospitable to club-oriented music.

In my opinion, TMH is saved by two of those Martinelli-produced ballads -- *Voice of the Heart" and "I Thought We Were Still In Love." Among her best latter-day ballads. None of the tracks you've cited by the Boom Brothers made an impression on me. It was not radio-ready material.

I guess we will have to agree to disagree Guy. “If I Will Survive” could reach pop No 3 in Iceland anything was possible lol. I think its novelty value alone would have guaranteed a modicum of AirPlay.
“I Thought That We Were Still In Love is a poignant song, with a classic Diana Ross vocal. A definite keep. By contrast, “Never Loved A Man” and “Voice Of The Heart” are pleasant enough but nothing more. They might have worked better on the 93 box set along with “Your Love” and “Best Years”. Something more urban would have been a better fit.

[Guy]

I guess we will have to agree to disagree Guy. “If I Will Survive” could reach pop No 3 in Iceland anything was possible lol. I think its novelty value alone would have guaranteed a modicum of AirPlay.
“I Thought That We Were Still In Love is a poignant song, with a classic Diana Ross vocal. A definite keep. By contrast, “Never Loved A Man” and “Voice Of The Heart” are pleasant enough but nothing more. They might have worked better on the 93 box set along with “Your Love” and “Best Years”. Something more urban would have been a better fit.

I will be forever biased in favor if "Voice of the Heart." She loved the message and my heart nearly burst during this performance if it when she grabbed and embraced Whitney.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cpsyeLpgG1g

[sup_fan]

i think Take Me is a strong album but looking across what was hot in 1995, it's easy to see why it didn't chart. There's nothing new or groundbreaking here. it's all solid productions and nice enough. But here are some top groups and songs of the time

Gangsta Paradise
Waterfalls and Creep
Take A Bow
Scream and You Are Not Alone
On Bended Knee and a bunch of other Boys II Men
Brandy had a bunch of big hits
Fantasy

and around this time people starting to rediscover disco and the 70s music. a remix of Gloria Gaynor's I Will Survive had already been released.

so while there was quality music here, what market was Diana and Motown going after? were they thinking they could get a big pop hit out of this content - that's a bit foolish IMO. none of the material on this album was new or different enough to make it break through what was going on in the contemporary music scene. Especially since she hadn't had a pop hit in over 10 years.

were they going for adult contemp? ok that's fine but what did they do to tackle that niche market?

were they going for dance? well the title track did ok on the dance charts and I Will Survive was rather popular. but since Gloria had recently done a remix of the song, the impact was lost. Plus motown didn't/wouldn't release it in the US as a single.

[reese]

were they going for dance? well the title track did ok on the dance charts and I Will Survive was rather popular. but since Gloria had recently done a remix of the song, the impact was lost. Plus motown didn't/wouldn't release it in the US as a single.

Chantay Savage also released a remake of I WILL SURVIVE in this period. One magazine speculated that was why Motown didn't release Diana's version as a single or 12", even though it was a popular import and even though they put the video in rotation on various US video channels.

After Diana used it as the exit to her great Super Bowl performance, Motown should have put it out. Even if they thought it wouldn't become a hit, they certainly had nothing to lose. But by then, the album was dead and supposedly Diana was criticizing Motown backstage at events like the Soul Train Anniversary Special.

That said, later Motown [[or someone) thought enough of Diana's version to let it be used in the film IN & OUT, during a rather comedic scene and then over the end credits.

[sup_fan]

had Diana led the pack with I Will Survive and released her version first, it's possible that might have helped jumpstart her US career. Or perhaps if she had done a new version of The Boss or Upside Down. and not the remixes we [[unfortunately) received on Xtended. frankly i hated those and thought they sucked but that's just my opinion

the fact is that in 95 or so, Diana was a "has been" in the eyes of much of the US but the general pop culture was going through a bit of a nostalgia trip on disco and 70s. you had the Brady Bunch movies, remixes of all sorts of popular songs. John Travolta made his comeback in Pulp Fiction. So Diana could have tried that route. not saying it would have necessarily worked but that might have been her best shot at a big pop chart hit.

but the rest of the TMH album, while all well sung and produce, a bit of a hodge podge of styles and material. so i don't know that the album would have really done much.

[jobeterob]

At some stage, Motown should have released I Will Survive.

Berry made any number of mistakes while he ran things but nothing compared to the missteps after he left.

[reese]

had Diana led the pack with I Will Survive and released her version first, it's possible that might have helped jumpstart her US career. Or perhaps if she had done a new version of The Boss or Upside Down. and not the remixes we [[unfortunately) received on Xtended. frankly i hated those and thought they sucked but that's just my opinion

I'm not really a fan of remixes but I do love the remix of SOMEDAY WE'LL BE TOGETHER on DIANA EXTENDED.

I was also pleasantly surprised that I like the remixes on the recent SUPERTONIC collection.

[sup_fan]

I'm not really a fan of remixes but I do love the remix of SOMEDAY WE'LL BE TOGETHER on DIANA EXTENDED.

I was also pleasantly surprised that I like the remixes on the recent SUPERTONIC collection.

i agree with you - that one seems to work. i rarely listen to this album so my memory is really fuzzy. i always hated the version of Boss. just destroyed the power and excitement of the original. some of the others weren't as bad though

but per my earlier post, i don't think remixes was what was needed. Maybe some sort of song that incorporated Upside Down or The Boss.

Diana Ross was no longer a contemporary presence on the US pop charts in the mid 90s. while she occasionally had some strong dance chart activity here, those songs didn't seem to make the jump over. So maybe playing up her legendary history would have been the angle to go

[Bluebrock]

Bluebrock you are correct..it was during the FBTP era.

Thank you for the clarification mowsville.

[Nitro2015]

At a time when she should have sought out the songwriters and producers making hits for Whitney, Mariah, Toni Braxton and MJB, she was still stuck in some other era.

Oddly enough, she was still determined NOT to go with Luther, Jam & Lewis, Babyface or Dave 'Jam' Hall. When she finally got Malik Pendleton and Chuckii Booker to give her a fresh sound on EIAND it was too late.



My perception is that songs like If You're Not Gonna Love Me Right, Keep It Right There, Don't Stop and Swing It sounds very contemporary for 1995. They even sounded fresh in the early 00's and could go along with anything that was being played on R&B Radio.

I Never Loved a Man Before was very reminiscent of Gloria Estefan's ballads, with that latin feel, that still sounded fresh and extremely radio-friendly through the entire 1990's. It could have been a great AC hit.

Gone sounded fresh too.

Take Me Higher, the lead single, was reminiscent of early 90's dance but still sounded contemporary through the mid-1990's.

I remember I discovered TMH in 1997 [[I was barely 13 y.o.) and was shocked with the freshness of it all and I wondered why it wasn't a big hit in U.S. For me, the album sounded perfect. The production was absolutely amazing, in my opinion, and very United States. You could see that she made the album aiming at the north american market.

For me, TMH is the perfect Diana album, the one that was expected by an artist of her caliber, that sang 18 #1 U.S. hits.

If You're Not Gonna Love Me Right deserved to be at least a Top 10 R&B hit. It sounded very 1994-1995-1996.

Take Me Higher was # 1 on the Dance chart and deserved a better performance on the Pop chart.

Keep It Right There, Don't Stop and Swing It were perfect for the Urban market.

I Never Loved a Man Before was perfect for the AC format at the time.

I don't care for her I Will Survive cover but I understand that it was a song that had an easier appeal for a larger audience, especially older fans and people who lived the disco era. I remember playing the entire album in my father's car and he wasn't very impressed [[he wasn't particularly a fan), but when IWS played he said: "This is the best song on the record!". Probably because it was the only one he was familiar with [[who didn't know the original?!). I didn't feel the same way, it was and it still is my least favorite track of the album.

[vgalindo]

My perception is that songs like If You're Not Gonna Love Me Right, Keep It Right There, Don't Stop and Swing It sounds very contemporary for 1995. They even sounded fresh in the early 00's and could go along with anything that was being played on R&B Radio.

I Never Loved a Man Before was very reminiscent of Gloria Estefan's ballads, with that latin feel, that still sounded fresh and extremely radio-friendly through the entire 1990's. It could have been a great AC hit.

Gone sounded fresh too.

Take Me Higher, the lead single, was reminiscent of early 90's dance but still sounded contemporary through the mid-1990's.

I remember I discovered TMH in 1997 [[I was barely 13 y.o.) and was shocked with the freshness of it all and I wondered why it wasn't a big hit in U.S. For me, the album sounded perfect. The production was absolutely amazing, in my opinion, and very United States. You could see that she made the album aiming at the north american market.

For me, TMH is the perfect Diana album, the one that was expected by an artist of her caliber, that sang 18 #1 U.S. hits.

If You're Not Gonna Love Me Right deserved to be at least a Top 10 R&B hit. It sounded very 1994-1995-1996.

Take Me Higher was # 1 on the Dance chart and deserved a better performance on the Pop chart.

Keep It Right There, Don't Stop and Swing It were perfect for the Urban market.

I Never Loved a Man Before was perfect for the AC format at the time.

I don't care for her I Will Survive cover but I understand that it was a song that had an easier appeal for a larger audience, especially older fans and people who lived the disco era. I remember playing the entire album in my father's car and he wasn't very impressed [[he wasn't particularly a fan), but when IWS played he said: "This is the best song on the record!". Probably because it was the only one he was familiar with [[who didn't know the original?!). I didn't feel the same way, it was and it still is my least favorite track of the album.
I feel the same way about the album. Everything you said about the songs I agree 💯.

[Ollie9]

If we as fans are in disagreement about what constitutes a good Diana Ross album how on earth was she expected to get it right?.
Diana could have worked with the hottest producer in town and still USA music buyers would have turned their backs.
It says a lot that a comparatively weak album such as “I Love You” reached 32 USA Billboard, 16 R & B. While a very decent album such as TMH scraped in at 114, 38 R & B.
It does rather confirm that her fall from grace was not entirely about the music.

[jack020]

How where the sales of those 2 albums? Chartlistings these days dont say much.

[sup_fan]

My perception is that songs like If You're Not Gonna Love Me Right, Keep It Right There, Don't Stop and Swing It sounds very contemporary for 1995. They even sounded fresh in the early 00's and could go along with anything that was being played on R&B Radio.

I Never Loved a Man Before was very reminiscent of Gloria Estefan's ballads, with that latin feel, that still sounded fresh and extremely radio-friendly through the entire 1990's. It could have been a great AC hit.

Gone sounded fresh too.

Take Me Higher, the lead single, was reminiscent of early 90's dance but still sounded contemporary through the mid-1990's.

I remember I discovered TMH in 1997 [[I was barely 13 y.o.) and was shocked with the freshness of it all and I wondered why it wasn't a big hit in U.S. For me, the album sounded perfect. The production was absolutely amazing, in my opinion, and very United States. You could see that she made the album aiming at the north american market.

For me, TMH is the perfect Diana album, the one that was expected by an artist of her caliber, that sang 18 #1 U.S. hits.

If You're Not Gonna Love Me Right deserved to be at least a Top 10 R&B hit. It sounded very 1994-1995-1996.

Take Me Higher was # 1 on the Dance chart and deserved a better performance on the Pop chart.

Keep It Right There, Don't Stop and Swing It were perfect for the Urban market.

I Never Loved a Man Before was perfect for the AC format at the time.

I don't care for her I Will Survive cover but I understand that it was a song that had an easier appeal for a larger audience, especially older fans and people who lived the disco era. I remember playing the entire album in my father's car and he wasn't very impressed [[he wasn't particularly a fan), but when IWS played he said: "This is the best song on the record!". Probably because it was the only one he was familiar with [[who didn't know the original?!). I didn't feel the same way, it was and it still is my least favorite track of the album.

i remember getting this album when new. it wasn't that it sounded out of date or bad. as a die-hard fan, i liked it. but for the average public, it was just ok.

when the Supremes were first hot, it wasn't just that they were contemporary but that they were totally new. there was nothing like them before. both the sound and the look.

when Diana had her big hits, typically that too was her doing something totally new. Mountain, Touch Me, Love Hangover.

not only was this music contemporary but it also changed the music scene. it broke new ground and made people pay attention

TMH was perfectly fine content but no new ground was broken, in terms of the general pop and r&b hits of the time. As for AC, was the album ever really positioned to tackle that market and chart? did any promotional money get spent to give her air time or hits on that chart?

that's sort of my point. given what was already being released in 95 and 96 on the pop and r&b charts, they didn't properly plan the production. so they ended up with a more AC set but doesn't seem they planned the promotional work to take it there either

[sup_fan]

If we as fans are in disagreement about what constitutes a good Diana Ross album how on earth was she expected to get it right?.
Diana could have worked with the hottest producer in town and still USA music buyers would have turned their backs.
It says a lot that a comparatively weak album such as “I Love You” reached 32 USA Billboard, 16 R & B. While a very decent album such as TMH scraped in at 114, 38 R & B.
It does rather confirm that her fall from grace was not entirely about the music.

i'll reiterate my last post - what was Diana's, her management's and her label's strategy with Take Me Higher? what were they looking to do? Score a big pop hit? reintroduce her to the younger Gen X record buyers of pop and r&b? score big in the AC market?

what we got was a mixed bag of perfectly nice songs but nothing strong enough to break out of the nucleus of fan base. it was fresh and totally new pop, it wasn't hard r&b and rap. it wasn't a full-on dance album. it was more a set of enjoyable AC but seems they didn't focus on that market with promotion

[Bluebrock]

If we as fans are in disagreement about what constitutes a good Diana Ross album how on earth was she expected to get it right?.
Diana could have worked with the hottest producer in town and still USA music buyers would have turned their backs.
It says a lot that a comparatively weak album such as “I Love You” reached 32 USA Billboard, 16 R & B. While a very decent album such as TMH scraped in at 114, 38 R & B.
It does rather confirm that her fall from grace was not entirely about the music.

By the time I love you was released Diana was beginning to gain renewed love and respect in the States. I think that was a major reason why such a mediocre album charted much higher than the far superior 90's albums.
As you have previously stated Ms Ross was often her own worst enemy. Her temper tantrums and diva behaviour did her no favours whatsoever.
Thankfully she is far more relaxed these days and has acknowledged past mistakes. I just wish i could transport her 2021 personality and swap it with her rather challenging early 80's personality.
She is way more patient co-operative and kinder these days. Those qualities could have made such a difference back in the day.
With age comes wisdom.....

[Ollie9]

i'll reiterate my last post - what was Diana's, her management's and her label's strategy with Take Me Higher? what were they

what we got was a mixed bag of perfectly nice songs but nothing strong enough to break out of the nucleus of fan base. it was fresh and totally new pop, it wasn't hard r&b and rap. it wasn't a full-on dance album. it was more a set of enjoyable AC but seems they didn't focus on that market with promotion

I think the description ‘a mixed bag of perfectly nice songs’ could be applied to many a Diana Ross album. A little something for everyone, and hope something catches the public’s imagination. Concepts and strategies have not always been glaringly obvious.
My own personal opinion is that TMH contained some very commercial material, more then worthy of a pop hit.
She would have been better served concentrating her promotional efforts for the album elsewhere other then in a country where she was greatly under appreciated at the time.

[Ollie9]

By the time I love you was released Diana was beginning to gain renewed love and respect in the States. I think that was a major reason why such a mediocre album charted much higher than the far superior 90's albums.
As you have previously stated Ms Ross was often her own worst enemy. Her temper tantrums and diva behaviour did her no favours whatsoever.
Thankfully she is far more relaxed these days and has acknowledged past mistakes. I just wish i could transport her 2021 personality and swap it with her rather challenging early 80's personality.
She is way more patient co-operative and kinder these days. Those qualities could have made such a difference back in the day.
With age comes wisdom.....

It does indeed B. Although having said, i like to think I have always been kind if not always as patient lol.

[sup_fan]

By the time I love you was released Diana was beginning to gain renewed love and respect in the States. I think that was a major reason why such a mediocre album charted much higher than the far superior 90's albums.
As you have previously stated Ms Ross was often her own worst enemy. Her temper tantrums and diva behaviour did her no favours whatsoever.
Thankfully she is far more relaxed these days and has acknowledged past mistakes. I just wish i could transport her 2021 personality and swap it with her rather challenging early 80's personality.
She is way more patient co-operative and kinder these days. Those qualities could have made such a difference back in the day.
With age comes wisdom.....

she also appeared on American Idol and sang More Today Than Yesterday. she coached some of the young contestants. that probably had more to do with the charting than anything else. certainly didn't chart based on the merits of the material

i've not done my "nerd excel" work for any of the material post 1977 or so. so i don't know the chart history of I Love You. yes it peaked at a rather nice, high number. but was there for a split second? did it go from the lower reaches of the charts to that peak and then plummet back to the netherworld? don't know

[sup_fan]

I think the description ‘a mixed bag of perfectly nice songs’ could be applied to many a Diana Ross album. A little something for everyone, and hope something catches the public’s imagination. Concepts have not always been glaringly obvious.
My own personal opinion is that TMH contained some very commercial material, more then worthy of a pop hit.
She would have been better served concentrating her promotional efforts for the album elsewhere other then in a country where she was greatly under appreciated at the time.

oh i completely agree with you. Diana Ross has most definitely not waxed one classic album after another. many of them, while still enjoyed by fans, are not necessarily masterpieces. Like Diana Ross 76. there are some truly historic moments - LH for instance. Mahogany is a beautiful song too. but the rest are perfectly nice for her fans but that's about it. even though it charted well it would never make a "100 most essential albums ever" list

but the key difference is in the 60s and 70s, she was a hot commodity. Her name or the Supremes' name was all you really needed to sell content. plus she had many excellent singles which would often lead to fans buying the associated lp

in the US in 1995, she was not a hot commodity. Missing You [[from fall of 84) wasn't just that last top 10. it was her last Top 40 on the US pop market and almost her last top 100!!!! After Missing, only Eaten Alive and Chained Reaction crept into the lowest regions of the Top 100.

So while perfectly nice material was acceptable at other points in her career, here she needed something much bigger. something to really grab people's attention. something either so new or so different or so shocking or so something.

TMH is quality music. but it isn't groundbreaking, it isn't terrible new or different from the general music of the time. it certainly wasn't shocking. it certainly wasn't "something"

[sup_fan]

Look at Cher in the late 90s

in 95 she released In A Man's World. it failed. So the label said "hey why don't you focus on a strong dance album to appeal to your gay fans and clubbers."

what we got was Believe

the lead single on that song was so new, so different, so surprising, so interesting. Even if you don't personally like the song or like Cher, you can't deny its uniqueness or pop appeal. And while much of Diana's singing on TMH is much more artistically challenging than the studio and electronically gimmicked Believe, we aren't necessarily talking about quality here.

the question posed was why TMH didn't hit in the US? that's not a question about quality of content. that's a question about why didn't people buy it.

People didn't but TMH because:

1. the music on the album was frankly too AC oriented yet the project wasn't positioned heavily towards that market

2. DR was too far removed from any recent pop activity so djs and programmers weren't really that interested in her or following her

3. same old, same old image - in 1995 [[and frankly even today) she's still looking basically like she did in 1979. a wild mane of hair, sparkling teeth surrounded by red lipstick, some sparkly ball gown. The only time she did anything with her image was Workin Overtime and that was NOT the right look.

4. lack of public sympathy - by this time, there was enough actual evidence [[combined with urban myth) about her bitchy diva persona. People just don't like her and so they don't root for her. they don't care about her succeeding. this is a partially inaccurate depiction of her but she has been responsible for quite a few shenanigans that Berry Gordy would NEVER have allowed her to either do or to let leak to the press.

[Ollie9]

oh i completely agree with you. Diana Ross has most definitely not waxed one classic album after another. many of them, while still enjoyed by fans, are not necessarily masterpieces. Like Diana Ross 76. there are some truly historic moments - LH for instance. Mahogany is a beautiful song too. but the rest are perfectly nice for her fans but that's about it. even though it charted well it would never make a "100 most essential albums ever" list

but the key difference is in the 60s and 70s, she was a hot commodity. Her name or the Supremes' name was all you really needed to sell content. plus she had many excellent singles which would often lead to fans buying the associated lp

in the US in 1995, she was not a hot commodity. Missing You [[from fall of 84) wasn't just that last top 10. it was her last Top 40 on the US pop market and almost her last top 100!!!! After Missing, only Eaten Alive and Chained Reaction crept into the lowest regions of the Top 100.

So while perfectly nice material was acceptable at other points in her career, here she needed something much bigger. something to really grab people's attention. something either so new or so different or so shocking or so something.

TMH is quality music. but it isn't groundbreaking, it isn't terrible new or different from the general music of the time. it certainly wasn't shocking. it certainly wasn't "something"

Shocking peep's isn’t always the best musical direction to head in. Remember “Fool For Your Love” and ‘Workin Overtime lol.
Back to 86, and the fact a worldwide hit such as “Chain Reaction” proved yet another American flop indicates to me it was not just about her needing a musical rethink.

[Bluebrock]

It does indeed B. Although having said, i like to think I have always been kind if not always as patient lol.

I like to think i have always been kind too, and i generally regard myself as a patient and understanding person.
When you have to put up with ridiculous behaviour from needy divas and would be divas it provides the best possible training!

[Ollie9]

I like to think i have always been kind too, and i generally regard myself as a patient and understanding person.
When you have to put up with ridiculous behaviour from needy divas and would be divas it provides the best possible training!

I guess it would....LOL.

[sup_fan]

Shocking peep's isn’t always the best musical direction to head in. Remember “Fool For Your Love” and ‘Workin Overtime lol.
Back to 86, and the fact a worldwide hit such as “Chain Reaction” proved yet another American flop indicates to me it was not just about her needing a musical rethink.

lol oh yes. those are valid points. shocking absolutely does NOT mean success.

but neither does artistic accomplishment. while many of us really like diana 80, i don't know that we'd list it as her most challenging or amazing vocal work. but it was something new. it wasn't standard chic. they had progressed as producers and started to move away [[somewhat) from disco and for a more urban sound. and it was just highly appealing

Mountain was shocking, i'd say. sooooooo different from anything prior. it was a big hit for Marvin and Tammi and Diana's version just was so different, so dramatic, so long, so amazing of vocals, so intriguing with all of those speaking sections. totally new and different

Love Hangover was quite different for disco. this merger of sultry slow and erotic fast. this totally ad lib and off the cuff performance by Diana.

Reflections was so new at the time. the avant garde psychedelia music at the time was so different. and frankly so white. few black performers had delved into it in mid 67. but here comes some psychedelic soul from the glamour girls of the supremes. totally new and different for them.

Same with Love Child, WDOLG and many others.

[sup_fan]

Blue - were you involved in the early work around TMH? wasn't sure if you had any info you could share about what was some of the strategy, what they were going for, decisions on which producers to use or content. Was the released album similar or quite different from original design?

[sup_fan]

here's an interesting perspective. from Wikipedia and the Critical Response segment on the album


In a retrospective review for Allmusic, editor William Ruhlmann wrote that "combining the work of four separate producers who mostly tried to fit Ross into contemporary dance trends, the album did feature a club bit in the title song, while the ballad "Gone" made the Top 40 in the UK. But Ross herself seemed to have spent more time posing for the many fashion shots in the booklet than singing tbe pedestrian songs."[1] Vibe critic Elysa Gardner found that Take Me Higher was "mired in excess. There are too many collaborators, too much synthetic production and heavy-handed sentiment [...] the only palpable vision is a firm eye on the middle of the road."[1]

[thommg]

I loved Take Me Higher, the song. There was a remix I got on a promo cassette that was fantastic [[wish I could find it now!). I wanted more uptempo on the album instead we got some lovely ballads. In the US. we didn't get Swing it. I was not enthused with I Will Survive. To me, that song was overdone by that point. I Thought That We Were Still In Love was a fantastic track, but not really radio friendly. As sup_fan said above - the album was too AC oriented. I enjoy it the most out of her return to Motown albums, but it was a typical Diana Ross album which sells to her fans but probably wouldn't make new ones or get played on radio.

Regarding I Love You, as Bluebrock said, it is a mediocre album. It had commercials and lots of TV exposure, which probably accounts for it's larger than normal sales. But, truthfully, for all the advertising i saw for it, it should have sold many more copies than it did.

[sup_fan]

I loved Take Me Higher, the song. There was a remix I got on a promo cassette that was fantastic [[wish I could find it now!). I wanted more uptempo on the album instead we got some lovely ballads. In the US. we didn't get Swing it. I was not enthused with I Will Survive. To me, that song was overdone by that point. I Thought That We Were Still In Love was a fantastic track, but not really radio friendly. As sup_fan said above - the album was too AC oriented. I enjoy it the most out of her return to Motown albums, but it was a typical Diana Ross album which sells to her fans but probably wouldn't make new ones or get played on radio.

Regarding I Love You, as Bluebrock said, it is a mediocre album. It had commercials and lots of TV exposure, which probably accounts for it's larger than normal sales. But, truthfully, for all the advertising i saw for it, it should have sold many more copies than it did.

i think her doing an AC album is perfectly fine. and while it might not have broken her into the Pop top 40, that's ok. But did Motown promote and push TMH in the AC market? i don't see any AC chart details on it. but doesn't seem like they made a big play for it there.

according to the wikipedia article on Cher and Believe, they seemed to focus from the start on targeting her gay fan base and club scene. and what they delivered seem to play right into that strategy. it then made the jump from Dance/Club to pop. and became a sensation.

seems like the sound and style of Everyday was more geared to Dance/Club too. not sure if that was the real goal here or what was driving the production and planning.

[Bluebrock]

It does indeed B. Although having said, i like to think I have always been kind if not always as patient lol.

I like to think i have always been kind too, and i generally regard myself as a patient and understanding person.
When you have to put up with ridiculous behaviour from needy divas and would be divas it provides the best possible training!

[Ollie9]

I like to think i have always been kind too, and i generally regard myself as a patient and understanding person.
When you have to put up with ridiculous behaviour from needy divas and would be divas it provides the best possible training!

Strange. Your post is duplicated and my reply has disappeared??.

[Guy]

Diana could have worked with the hottest producer in town and still USA music buyers would have turned their backs.

I guess we'll never know. She did it once -- 1980's "diana" -- and it worked spectacularly. I don't know why the "hottest producer" of the day couldn't have given her another commercial jolt -- at a time Cher, Tina and Patti Labelle were still having chart hits. I think Jam & Lewis or Babyface could have given her the crossover hits she longed for, and her fans wanted for her. Luther certainly could have given her some magic moments that could have been hits. There was so much urban-oriented talent making hits -- Teddy Riley, Dallas Austin, Kyle West, Simon Law, etc. Was there was no one at Motown, or in her orbit, who could direct her to a solid commercial strategy?

[sup_fan]

i think it's just a "maybe" as to whether Diana would have achieved a pop hit in the 90s. You mention Tina, Cher and Patti but all 3 of them, frankly, had stronger public images in that people like them and their personality. they hadn't had the damning PR backlash that Diana experienced. They also had a bit of underdog on their side.

having a hot producer is also just part of it. they would have had to come up with something really compelling to generate interest. simply having DR sing a Luther or Babyface song wouldn't have done it, IMO. that could have been written off like a Mom trying to be young.

I wonder if a stronger return to film and tv wouldn't have done it. she was wonderful in Out Of Darkness. perhaps another project like that. or a big hit film. something that might help share her for comedic and personable side. Darkness displayed her talent but you don't walk away from it thinking "diana is just like me - we could be best friends!" like you would with a great comedy or a more fun movie.

[reese]

I wonder if a stronger return to film and tv wouldn't have done it. she was wonderful in Out Of Darkness. perhaps another project like that. or a big hit film. something that might help share her for comedic and personable side. Darkness displayed her talent but you don't walk away from it thinking "diana is just like me - we could be best friends!" like you would with a great comedy or a more fun movie.

This is an interesting point.

As great an actor as Diana is, she hasn't really taken advantage of that area of her talent. Back in the 80s, Ron Miller said something like Diana could be a great actress if she really put in the work, did small jobs for little or no money, to learn her craft. Diana started at the sky with LADY and maintained the star role in every film project she did since.

By comparison, Cher moved to NYC, did some theater, films like JIMMY DEAN and SILKWOOD, where she didn't have the starring role. She kept growing, culminating with an Oscar for her role in MOONSTRUCK. After that, her recording career picked up again. Of course, her career has had her peaks and valleys since then. At one point, she was doing an informercial. But she always bounces back with a BELIEVE or MAMMA MIA.

I think Diana's devotion to her family probably made delving seriously into acting a lesser priority.

[sup_fan]

and given the timing of things too. the word was always that Diana in the 80s was too demanding on what control and role she would play in the overall production. and she seemed pretty razor focused on the Josephine Baker concept.

it's always a SUPER sensitive issue as to who will receive top billing in a film. by this time, Diana was an overall superstar and been nominated for an Oscar. But you're right, she hadn't invested years of work and study to the craft. now she might be a very gifted actor but if she's working with another very gifted actor who HAS put in those years, it would be tough to argue she gets second billing.

there was some rumor about a project that could have potentially involved Jack Lemmon back in the 70s. perhaps that could have been an interesting property but who stars?

as we've all said, sometimes Diana could be her worst enemy and that she got in the way of many of her own goals and projects.

[sup_fan]

in Call Her Miss Ross, Randy discusses the idea of Diana in Witches of Eastwick. i don't think he was implying that she was a candidate for a role but more around the point that she probably wouldn't consider a strong ensemble cast like that. one where the central story didn't focus on her. and you know with Susan Sarandon, Cher, Jack Nicholson you'd have a real challenge arranging billing.

[reese]

in Call Her Miss Ross, Randy discusses the idea of Diana in Witches of Eastwick. i don't think he was implying that she was a candidate for a role but more around the point that she probably wouldn't consider a strong ensemble cast like that. one where the central story didn't focus on her. and you know with Susan Sarandon, Cher, Jack Nicholson you'd have a real challenge arranging billing.

Randy actually was referring to an interview with former Motown Productions producer Rob Cohen.

Cohen said that if he was able to convince Warner Bros. to cast Diana opposite Cher in THE WITCHES OF EASTWICK, he didn't think she would have done it because it was ensemble. So it sounds like Cohen might have really been interested in having Diana in the film. He went on to say that he read hundreds of scripts every year and Diana was always on his mind. But he didn't know what he could do with her because she was very rigid in what she would and would not do.

I remember Eddie Murphy saying something like he wanted Diana and Billy Dee to play his parents in COMING TO AMERICA. The roles eventually went to James Earl Jones and Madge Sinclair but it could have been cute with Diana and Billy Dee. A small, fun role with no pressure. Or even Diana and James Earl Jones reunited years after TARZAN. So many ideas...

[sup_fan]

Randy actually was referring to an interview with former Motown Productions producer Rob Cohen.

Cohen said that if he was able to convince Warner Bros. to cast Diana opposite Cher in THE WITCHES OF EASTWICK, he didn't think she would have done it because it was ensemble. So it sounds like Cohen might have really been interested in having Diana in the film. He went on to say that he read hundreds of scripts every year and Diana was always on his mind. But he didn't know what he could do with her because she was very rigid in what she would and would not do.

I remember Eddie Murphy saying something like he wanted Diana and Billy Dee to play his parents in COMING TO AMERICA. The roles eventually went to James Earl Jones and Madge Sinclair but it could have been cute with Diana and Billy Dee. A small, fun role with no pressure. Or even Diana and James Earl Jones reunited years after TARZAN. So many ideas...

yes that's the story! couldn't remember the details. and i don't know that, frankly, Diana was ever a consideration for Witches. but just an example

also during the 80s she was VERY busy with her family, different business ventures, trying to get the RCA stuff going and then Arne. gotta remember that even for a workhorse like Diana, there are still only 24 hours in a day. a movie takes so much time and commitment that it could be she thought "unless it's a perfect role, just not worth it." Maybe she really liked acting but if she had to choose, singing on a stage would be her top pick. so if something had to go it wouldn't be music and absolutely wasn't going to sacrifice any of her family life. so maybe movies just weren't possible

[florence]

In the original mooted Bodyguard film who was originally cast opposite Diana?

I had always thought it was Ryan O'Neal but I was told recently it was actually Steve McQueen.

[vgalindo]

In the original mooted Bodyguard film who was originally cast opposite Diana?

I had always thought it was Ryan O'Neal but I was told recently it was actually Steve McQueen.
It was actually written for Diana Ross and Steve McQueen. I really don’t remember what happened with Steve. But it was then given to Ryan O’Neil. Who was begging Diana to do this movie with him.

[Ollie9]

In the original mooted Bodyguard film who was originally cast opposite Diana?

I had always thought it was Ryan O'Neal but I was told recently it was actually Steve McQueen.

It was definitely Ryan. It’s well documented how angry and disillusioned he felt when after much deliberation Diana decided not to go ahead with the film after all. I wish it had been Steve McQueen. :cool:

[Bluebrock]

Blue - were you involved in the early work around TMH? wasn't sure if you had any info you could share about what was some of the strategy, what they were going for, decisions on which producers to use or content. Was the released album similar or quite different from original design?

Sadly i had no input whatsoever into the general direction and choice of songs and producers for TMH. Had i been given more involvement i wouldn't have changed that much about it. It remains one of my personal favourite Ross albums. I like everything on the album with the exception of IWS. Ms Ross herself wanted to record that as a personal tribute to her daughters who loved the original version.
My job was to take care of Ms Ross and protect her in more ways than one.
I did attend a few recording sessions when i was asked to, but i was not allowed any musical input.
The only time i could take any credit for any song choices was for the Very Special Season album. I had put forward the idea of including Amazing Grace on the album. I had loved her Christmas In Vienna version and suggested she record it for the Christmas album. She thought it to be a great idea, and then i suggested maybe we could try and include the live version which in my opinion could not be bettered by re-recording it. To my immense delight my suggestion was taken on board, and permission was granted to include it on the Christmas album.

[sup_fan]

Blue - so what did the UK do right with this album? while TMH didn't chart as strongly in the UK as Force, it still did rather well. what approach[[es) did the team there do to help break it out in the pop music scene in UK?

[florence]

Diana was primarily a singles artist in the UK - her studio albums apart from a few underperformed.

diana for example with the almost #1 Upside Down, top 5 My Old Piano and top 20 I'm Coming Out although it sold around 130k missed the top 10.

On the face of it Take Me Higher looks to have been successful reaching the top 10 but this is an illusion.

Diehard fans bought it in the first week of release.

Its chart performance was 10-22-48-85.

It was one of her lowest selling albums being one of the few not to even reach Silver status [[60k).

[Bluebrock]

Strange. Your post is duplicated and my reply has disappeared??.

Gremlins at work Ollie.

[Bluebrock]

Blue - so what did the UK do right with this album? while TMH didn't chart as strongly in the UK as Force, it still did rather well. what approach[[es) did the team there do to help break it out in the pop music scene in UK?

Due to personal reasons i missed out on some of the crucial promotion of TMH. I am convinced we could have had another major seller on our hands had i been in a position to arrange more promotion.
I do not wish to apportion blame to anyone who worked on the promotion, but a few wrong choices were made.
We should have repromoted it and issued a "special edition" as they were known back in the 90's. Ms Ross was willing to promote the hell out of this album, but she needed strong support which was sadly not there when it was needed.

[nomis]

Due to personal reasons i missed out on some of the crucial promotion of TMH. I am convinced we could have had another major seller on our hands had i been in a position to arrange more promotion.
I do not wish to apportion blame to anyone who worked on the promotion, but a few wrong choices were made.
We should have repromoted it and issued a "special edition" as they were known back in the 90's. Ms Ross was willing to promote the hell out of this album, but she needed strong support which was sadly not there when it was needed.

Bluebrock - your recollections are fascinating

[daviddh]

Ross was very visable in the 60s as a supreme but in the 70s her tv appearances were rare and she didn't always perform her hits.....lady is a tramp.omg. that doesn't sell records.
In the 90s ...Ross was only visable when TMH came out.
Great album.
Great tour.
But I think Diana has an image of herself in her head.imo.
Although I loved the Superbowl show I mostly remember her performing a medley of hits. Imo.she should of performed songs from TmH. I personally didn't need to reach out and touch again.. almost every memory I have is her singing I will survive on every tv appearances.
If you're not gonna love me right should have been the follow up to TMH and promoted more. And why is this song not in her show . But we got I Will Survive forever. A good song but her inability to update her show hurts her record sales.just my opinion

[Nitro2015]

Ross was very visable in the 60s as a supreme but in the 70s her tv appearances were rare and she didn't always perform her hits.....lady is a tramp.omg. that doesn't sell records.
In the 90s ...Ross was only visable when TMH came out.
Great album.
Great tour.
But I think Diana has an image of herself in her head.imo.
Although I loved the Superbowl show I mostly remember her performing a medley of hits. Imo.she should of performed songs from TmH. I personally didn't need to reach out and touch again.. almost every memory I have is her singing I will survive on every tv appearances.
If you're not gonna love me right should have been the follow up to TMH and promoted more. And why is this song not in her show . But we got I Will Survive forever. A good song but her inability to update her show hurts her record sales.just my opinion


If You're Not Gonna Love Me Right >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I Will Survive


Her live version of IYNGLMR on Jay Leno was amazing. The song performed live is very reminiscent of Too Many Nights, a b-side from the era.

[Nitro2015]

Due to personal reasons i missed out on some of the crucial promotion of TMH. I am convinced we could have had another major seller on our hands had i been in a position to arrange more promotion.
I do not wish to apportion blame to anyone who worked on the promotion, but a few wrong choices were made.
We should have repromoted it and issued a "special edition" as they were known back in the 90's. Ms Ross was willing to promote the hell out of this album, but she needed strong support which was sadly not there when it was needed.

Thanks for your insights, Bluebrocks.

Did Diana ever expressed frustration regarding to TMH's commercial performence in U.S. or U.K.? She seemed to really believe in the record.

[Bluebrock]

Thanks for your insights, Bluebrocks.

Did Diana ever expressed frustration regarding to TMH's commercial performence in U.S. or U.K.? She seemed to really believe in the record.
Yes she did. She was resigned to the album flopping in the USA. She knew Motown were not in her corner but she was determined to put herself in the public eye by doing the late night talk shows despite being no fan of Jay Leno.
As regards the UK she was open to hosting her own tv special. Talks were held with the BBC but an agreement could not be reached. She eventually did the Audience with Diana Ross for ITV whilst promoting Everyday is a new Day.
She expected TMH to hit big in the UK, and i wanted to reissue the title track in a slightly remixed version to follow IWS but i was outvoted.
I remain convinced to this very day that it could have rivalled FBTP had the promotion been handled better from the start.

[Bluebrock]

Bluebrock - your recollections are fascinating
Thank you for your kind words nomis.

[daviddh]

I will look at for that performance of if your not gonna love me .
Thanks.
Still a great album.in my top ten Ross albums

[Bluebrock]

I will look at for that performance of if your not gonna love me .
Thanks.
Still a great album.in my top ten Ross albums

You must do David. She looked and sounded great.

[Ollie9]

She expected TMH to hit big in the UK, and i wanted to reissue the title track in a slightly remixed version to follow IWS but i was outvoted.

Sounds a really good idea to me. Great shame you were outvoted. I’ve mentioned it before, but I really wish TOTP had screened the exciting promo of TMH as opposed to her nice, but slightly dull appearance at the Motown Museum.

[Bluebrock]

Sounds a really good idea to me. Great shame you were outvoted. I’ve mentioned it before, but I really wish TOTP had screened the exciting promo of TMH as opposed to her nice, but slightly dull appearance at the Motown Museum.

She actually did a live studio performance of it that has never been broadcast. It was excellent, and in the same vein as her Letterman performance. I have requested it for inclusion in the forthcoming Diana Ross at the BBC programme, but i have been told the song was not a big enough mainstream hit to warrant inclusion. I got the same response when i asked for her Pebble Mill performance of Gone to be included.
They should just leave it to me to compile the programme! I know Ms Ross way better than they do.

[Ollie9]

She actually did a live studio performance of it that has never been broadcast. It was excellent, and in the same vein as her Letterman performance. I have requested it for inclusion in the forthcoming Diana Ross at the BBC programme, but i have been told the song was not a big enough mainstream hit to warrant inclusion. I got the same response when i asked for her Pebble Mill performance of Gone to be included.
They should just leave it to me to compile the programme! I know Ms Ross way better than they do.

I’m getting less excited about this BBC show by the minute B. I’m sensing “Mountain” and “I’m Still Waiting” will be the order of the day.

[JohnnyB]

I’m getting less excited about this BBC show by the minute B. I’m sensing “Mountain” and “I’m Still Waiting” will be the order of the day.

I guess I’m a little behind and haven’t heard anything about this upcoming BBC show. Previously, I thought you were discussing the recently-aired Story Of Her Songs segment. Can you provide a few details?

[Boogiedown]

I will be forever biased in favor if "Voice of the Heart." She loved the message and my heart nearly burst during this performance if it when she grabbed and embraced Whitney.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cpsyeLpgG1g


Thanks for posting this. That racing over to hug with Whitney at the end , Whitney leaped out of her chair....it's moments like this I suddenly like Diana Ross a lot more...

very touching

[Bluebrock]

I’m getting less excited about this BBC show by the minute B. I’m sensing “Mountain” and “I’m Still Waiting” will be the order of the day.

Indeed. Along with Baby love, Touch me in the morning, Mahogany, chain reaction, when you tell me that you love me, one shining moment and..... gulp i will survive!

[MusicGuy34]

I'm new to the forum [[long time looker, first time poster haha). I became a fan of Diana's in 2000 when VH1 was doing Diva's Live. I was around 13ish at the time and loved the previous Diva's shows-when I saw they were doing a whole special dedicated to Diana, I was intrigued. I kept watching any and all the clips they showed of her, music videos, segments on Supremes, etc and was loving everything.

I kept seeing clips of what was the "Take Me Higher" video and I asked my mom to take me to the music shop near where we lived and they had the Take Me Higher album along with Everyday Is a New Day. For me, I started my love of Diana's music with those 2 albums and then worked backwards and learned about "Ain't No Moutain...", "Theme From Mahogany," "The Boss," "I'm Coming Out," etc. They're still my favorite to this day because of the association and memories I have connected.

I think "Take Me Higher" is just a really great, solid album with lots of potential that was definitely overlooked. With the right promotion, I think she could of had some great chart success. "I Never Loved a Man Before" and "I Thought That We Were Still In Love" are 2 of her most beautiful songs in her catalog. I was just listening to the Japanese release the other day and it's interesting how they omit "Let Somebody Know" which was definitely a song that fit Diana perfectly and added in "Swing It." "Swing It" is unique and while I think the lyrics don't fit her at times [["...Cause I'm the 'roni that'll give you what you need"), it still has a great R&B vibe that could have seen potential airplay. "I Will Survive" seemed like the odd song out. I enjoy it live, but I'm not a fan of her closing each show with it still to this day. "Gone" is my favorite track from the album-her voice, her emotion fit the music perfectly and I love the black and white video released with it. I think there were a lot of opportunities to propel her back onto the charts, but Motown just didn't want to give it the attention it needed and deserved. Going through and looking back at clips, she was all over promoting it, so the failure of it not being a success rests more on Motown then Diana's.

[Bluebrock]

I'm new to the forum [[long time looker, first time poster haha). I became a fan of Diana's in 2000 when VH1 was doing Diva's Live. I was around 13ish at the time and loved the previous Diva's shows-when I saw they were doing a whole special dedicated to Diana, I was intrigued. I kept watching any and all the clips they showed of her, music videos, segments on Supremes, etc and was loving everything.

I kept seeing clips of what was the "Take Me Higher" video and I asked my mom to take me to the music shop near where we lived and they had the Take Me Higher album along with Everyday Is a New Day. For me, I started my love of Diana's music with those 2 albums and then worked backwards and learned about "Ain't No Moutain...", "Theme From Mahogany," "The Boss," "I'm Coming Out," etc. They're still my favorite to this day because of the association and memories I have connected.

I think "Take Me Higher" is just a really great, solid album with lots of potential that was definitely overlooked. With the right promotion, I think she could of had some great chart success. "I Never Loved a Man Before" and "I Thought That We Were Still In Love" are 2 of her most beautiful songs in her catalog. I was just listening to the Japanese release the other day and it's interesting how they omit "Let Somebody Know" which was definitely a song that fit Diana perfectly and added in "Swing It." "Swing It" is unique and while I think the lyrics don't fit her at times [["...Cause I'm the 'roni that'll give you what you need"), it still has a great R&B vibe that could have seen potential airplay. "I Will Survive" seemed like the odd song out. I enjoy it live, but I'm not a fan of her closing each show with it still to this day. "Gone" is my favorite track from the album-her voice, her emotion fit the music perfectly and I love the black and white video released with it. I think there were a lot of opportunities to propel her back onto the charts, but Motown just didn't want to give it the attention it needed and deserved. Going through and looking back at clips, she was all over promoting it, so the failure of it not being a success rests more on Motown then Diana's.

Interesting observations from a younger person's viewpoint.
Welcome to the forum. I'm sure you will make some new friends on here. All the best to you and yours.

[Nitro2015]

I'm new to the forum [[long time looker, first time poster haha). I became a fan of Diana's in 2000 when VH1 was doing Diva's Live. I was around 13ish at the time and loved the previous Diva's shows-when I saw they were doing a whole special dedicated to Diana, I was intrigued. I kept watching any and all the clips they showed of her, music videos, segments on Supremes, etc and was loving everything.

I kept seeing clips of what was the "Take Me Higher" video and I asked my mom to take me to the music shop near where we lived and they had the Take Me Higher album along with Everyday Is a New Day. For me, I started my love of Diana's music with those 2 albums and then worked backwards and learned about "Ain't No Moutain...", "Theme From Mahogany," "The Boss," "I'm Coming Out," etc. They're still my favorite to this day because of the association and memories I have connected.

I think "Take Me Higher" is just a really great, solid album with lots of potential that was definitely overlooked. With the right promotion, I think she could of had some great chart success. "I Never Loved a Man Before" and "I Thought That We Were Still In Love" are 2 of her most beautiful songs in her catalog. I was just listening to the Japanese release the other day and it's interesting how they omit "Let Somebody Know" which was definitely a song that fit Diana perfectly and added in "Swing It." "Swing It" is unique and while I think the lyrics don't fit her at times [["...Cause I'm the 'roni that'll give you what you need"), it still has a great R&B vibe that could have seen potential airplay. "I Will Survive" seemed like the odd song out. I enjoy it live, but I'm not a fan of her closing each show with it still to this day. "Gone" is my favorite track from the album-her voice, her emotion fit the music perfectly and I love the black and white video released with it. I think there were a lot of opportunities to propel her back onto the charts, but Motown just didn't want to give it the attention it needed and deserved. Going through and looking back at clips, she was all over promoting it, so the failure of it not being a success rests more on Motown then Diana's.


I have a similar story. I became a fan in the late 90's [[1997) after watching the TMH video on a Soul/R&B program [[U.S. hits) on MTV Brazil [[it was the only time I saw it in rotation). It was the beginning of a long standing love affair! And almost a miracle because TMH wasn't usually played on MTV. I'm happy I catched on and it changed my life, because I became obsessed with her. I was already a big fan of other north american singers like Tina Turner, Janet and Madonna. I was barely a teenager.

TMH was not promoted here in the country, but Diana was known to be one of the biggest american icons. I thought the song was a big hit in U.S., and to my surprise I discovered it wasn't. I'm still surprised to this day.

[Nitro2015]

Yes she did. She was resigned to the album flopping in the USA. She knew Motown were not in her corner but she was determined to put herself in the public eye by doing the late night talk shows despite being no fan of Jay Leno.
As regards the UK she was open to hosting her own tv special. Talks were held with the BBC but an agreement could not be reached. She eventually did the Audience with Diana Ross for ITV whilst promoting Everyday is a new Day.
She expected TMH to hit big in the UK, and i wanted to reissue the title track in a slightly remixed version to follow IWS but i was outvoted.
I remain convinced to this very day that it could have rivalled FBTP had the promotion been handled better from the start.

Thank you Bluebrock, it's always amazing to hear about your stories and background information.

[Bluebrock]

Thank you Bluebrock, it's always amazing to hear about your stories and background information.
Thank you Nitro. I found your memories of being introduced to Ms Ross's music very interesting. I love hearing these stories from younger generations than my own. Ms Ross would also be very pleased to know she has a whole new generation of fans and admirers. Take care and stay safe.

[Nitro2015]

Thank you Nitro. I found your memories of being introduced to Ms Ross's music very interesting. I love hearing these stories from younger generations than my own. Ms Ross would also be very pleased to know she has a whole new generation of fans and admirers. Take care and stay safe.


Take care and stay safe too, Bluebrock! And let's keep the conversation going.

[Deepdishus2001]

I was looking at my old Billboard chart books and just looking at the years 1970-1985 on the pop chart only, Diana had 27 top 40 pop hits, roughly averaging 2 a year. In only 2 years, 1972 and 1978, did she not have a song in the top 40. 20 out of the 27 made the top 20 which is very significant as some have mentioned that she either hit No. 1 or missed completely which is not an accurate representation of how successful she was, again, on the pop chart. No other female was as successful as her with the exception of Donna Summer, maybe. I am putting her in comparison with the ladies of her era such as Patti, Dionne, Aretha, Tina, Cher, Streisand, Olivia Newton John, Linda Ronstadt and Bette Midler.

Tina Turner had 6 top 40 hits with Ike, the last being the #22 charting Nutbush City Limits in 1973 and did not reach the top 40 again until the #26 remake of Let's Stay Together in 1984. In effect she was a new artist.

As for Cher, It's a Man's World was a fantastic album. Believe is a great gimmick of a song but the album was awful and the subsequent singles couldn't even reach the top 40 and she has not been close to the top 40 since. Also the huge gaps in her charting from 1974, nothing until Take Me Home in 1979 then nothing until I Found Someone in 1988 then nothing from Save Up All Your Tears in 1991 to Believe in 1999 then nothing since.

Patti Labelle - Lady Marmalade #1 in 1975 and nothing until New Attitude #17 in 1985 then On My Own and O, People in 1986 then nothing since.

As for hodge-podge of styles, Whitney's and Mariah's albums were hodge-podge of styles, multiple producers, etc. They were great albums because of the multiple hit singles not because of cohesive artistic statements. I would give that to the "lesser" singers like Janet and Madonna and Prince over Michael.

R&B had become way more producer oriented from the mid-80s on. I posit that if Workin' Overtime, as is, unchanged, had the name of Teddy Riley, LA Reid & Babyface or Jam & Lewis as the producer, it would have been a huge success, The Bottom Line is such a great track.

In the end, Diana was a huge success in spite of her record labels and her sometime questionable artistic choices. Imagine if she was with a label like Warner, Columbia or MCA.

Motown in the 70s, as has been documented by all of you here, made a mess of all her releases. I would also point out how they were a relative failure with all their female artists from the 70s Supremes, Thelma Houston, Tata Vega, Teena Marie, High Energy, Good Girls, 702, Vanity, Stacy Lattisaw, Shanice, India.arie, etc. They could not maintain or sustain success for any of them. Erykah Badu shifted over from Universal when Kedar Massenburg was name the head of Motown.

RCA was a disaster for not just Diana but established stars like Kenny Rogers and Barry Manilow. Kenny's first album there was his only success then pretty much downhill from there. Barry's first studio album there only reached 88 on the pop albums chart. He quickly shifted back to Arista. Swept Away would have been multi-platinum on any other label. I was loving Evelyn Champagne King's come back records like Love Come Down and I'm in Love and all of Melba Moore's EMI/Capital albums from 1981-1990. I would have loved to hear Diana paired with Kashif, Lillo Thomas, Leon Sylvers III, Freddie Jackson, etc. Bluebrock mentioned that Diana was to have recorded with Quincy, or re-teamed with Chic but RCA had to have product. So in effect, they cut their nose off to spite their face yet WDFFIL went platinum plus anyway. Patti Austin's [[my favorite Patti) Every Home Should Have One could have been Diana's? And Chic's Debby Harry's KooKoo was real good too. Could Definitely hear Diana singing Backfired or Now I Know You Know.

When Diana signed with MCA, I was so excited because of all the success they were having then my heart sank when she shifted to Motown. MCA was the label of Gladys, Patti, Jody Watley, Bobby Brown, Guy etc. They were the premier label charting on the R&B and pop charts. I always imagined Sheen Easton's 1988 MCA Debut The Lover in Me of Karyn White's self-titled 1989 album as being perfect for Diana as well. Motown was a disaster by then and were fortunate to have Boyz II Men.

Sorry for the very long post.

[sup_fan]

When Diana signed with MCA, I was so excited because of all the success they were having then my heart sank when she shifted to Motown. MCA was the label of Gladys, Patti, Jody Watley, Bobby Brown, Guy etc. They were the premier label charting on the R&B and pop charts. I always imagined Sheen Easton's 1988 MCA Debut The Lover in Me of Karyn White's self-titled 1989 album as being perfect for Diana as well. Motown was a disaster by then and were fortunate to have Boyz II Men.

Sorry for the very long post.

great point about MCA's strength at the time in the R&B field. Diana has already released If We Hold On Together on the label. i'm not sure who's idea it was to work with Niles Rodgers on WO. was it Diana that reached out to him or someone at the Motown label?

i'd be curious to know what producers MCA had either in-house or what arrangements they had that might have provided a different POV for her first album.

[florence]

Billboard also named Diana as the #1 Hot 100 artist of both 1976 and 1981.

Was it just a case of Diana being passe by then but why did If We Hold On Together do so badly in the US? - it didn't even do very well on the AC chart.

[sup_fan]

Billboard also named Diana as the #1 Hot 100 artist of both 1976 and 1981.

Was it just a case of Diana being passe by then but why did If We Hold On Together do so badly in the US? - it didn't even do very well on the AC chart.

i find the song a bit saccharine. it's too kiddie sing-along

[Deepdishus2001]

I completely forgot to include Stephanie Mills in that group of artists. She like Patti got a second career wind with them. Putting a Rush on Me is one of my favorites by her.

I'm not in the music biz, just a tremendous fan of all types of music so I have no idea. LOL Remember that she got to put the Ross Records imprint along with the Motown label so I figured it was her decision. It's also in keeping with her pattern of being a few years too late. She should have worked with Nile in 1985-86 after the huge success of Like a Virgin.

I'm not sure if it was in this thread or another but someone asked if Voice of the Heart was a US single. It was as a double AA sided CD single with If You're Not Gonna Love Me Right [[the LP mix and the Crenshaw Records remix. It reached number 28 on the AC chart. I heard it a lot on the Lite-FM station in NY when it was released.

If We Hold on Together reached no. 23, When You Tell Me That You Love Me no. 26 and I've Got a Crush on You with Rod Stewart no. 19. Again, if Motown was any kind of competent label, the tracks all would have gone much higher. Same with If You're Not Gonna Love Me Right. If that was the first single, I'm sure it would have gone much higher on the R&B chart that no. 67.

[sup_fan]

this is where my unfamiliarity with the details of a working relationship within the label comes out

Diana specifically mentions that part of her rationale for leaving motown was that she wanted to do these things. she wanted to select musicians, plan the photo shoots, handle the album track sequencing, etc.

Would Diana not also have had involvement into the promotion and marketing of her material? If a label has budgeted $X to promote the release, wouldn't she have had visibility into that? was it an FYI only role or would she have been involved in finalizing the expenditures?

We talk about how motown was so F'd up with their handling of her material. like the totally haphazard and disorganized manner which it handled Force behind the power.

what role does an artist have in this? what about when that isn't just any random artist but someone like Diana?

[TNSUN]

The "Take Me Higher" album holds up well today.The songs were all well produced and Diana Ross' vocals are exquisite.

[after you]

I absolutely love this song and it doesn’t matter if I don’t do well in the US Who cares it’s a timeless classic that will be loved forever and ever

[JLoveLamar]

By the time I love you was released Diana was beginning to gain renewed love and respect in the States. I think that was a major reason why such a mediocre album charted much higher than the far superior 90's albums.
As you have previously stated Ms Ross was often her own worst enemy. Her temper tantrums and diva behaviour did her no favours whatsoever.
Thankfully she is far more relaxed these days and has acknowledged past mistakes. I just wish i could transport her 2021 personality and swap it with her rather challenging early 80's personality.
She is way more patient co-operative and kinder these days. Those qualities could have made such a difference back in the day.
With age comes wisdom.....

Can you tell us a bit more? Tantrums and diva behavior like throwing glasses at people in the studio, or showing up to the studio late? There was a special on television about Miss Ross' diva antics during the VH1 Diva's Live about Miss Ross wanting nobody being able to look her in the eye and all sorts of other crazy things. Was there any truth to any of that?

[Bluebrock]

Can you tell us a bit more? Tantrums and diva behavior like throwing glasses at people in the studio, or showing up to the studio late? There was a special on television about Miss Ross' diva antics during the VH1 Diva's Live about Miss Ross wanting nobody being able to look her in the eye and all sorts of other crazy things. Was there any truth to any of that?

I was at the Divas 2000 recording and there was no glass throwing and she was always on time. Never late which is more than i could say for others involved.
It was a troubled production for sure with lots of stress and drama from many sources. She was not in a good place at the time and i do believe she should have dropped out of the event and focused on her own well being. This could have saved so much heartache and upheaval for herself in the following years.
Mariah could have been the main focus, and the tribute to Diana could have been postponed to a future year. It was an impossible situation.

[sup_fan]

according to Randy's book, one of the big problems was the sound system that Diana requested. which was apparently plagued with problems. and when those problems arose, she was not pleased at all.

[Bluebrock]

according to Randy's book, one of the big problems was the sound system that Diana requested. which was apparently plagued with problems. and when those problems arose, she was not pleased at all.

There were a few sound issues, but nothing too serious as i recall.

[SatansBlues]

I was at the Divas 2000 recording and there was no glass throwing and she was always on time. Never late which is more than i could say for others involved.
It was a troubled production for sure with lots of stress and drama from many sources. She was not in a good place at the time and i do believe she should have dropped out of the event and focused on her own well being. This could have saved so much heartache and upheaval for herself in the following years.
Mariah could have been the main focus, and the tribute to Diana could have been postponed to a future year. It was an impossible situation.
Was DR's stress related to the dissolution of her marriage? That's a lot for anyone to go thru. What were the other issues going on?

[sup_fan]

my only source of info is Randy's book which has quite a bit of interesting commentary on the whole event. of course i love hearing Blue's memories too.

Randy mentions that things started out with the Executives and marketing team showing Diana the proposed theming and media approach they were wanting to use. Apparently it was a "super hero" theme with the various participants represented by cartoon super hero images and how they're all setting aside their individual activities to join forces for 1 night.

apparently they were really excited about it and, as a general concept, it could be interesting. but clearly NO ONE did any research on the brand of "DIANA ROSS" or made any attempts to brief anyone on her staff. if any ideas or images could be FURTHER away from who and what DIANA ROSS is that comic book/cartoon super heroes, i can't think of any lol

and as the story goes she was NOT pleased. Randy says this early, initial meeting was indicative of things to come lol

[mwmr]

I feel that her career in U.S. was almost eclipsed by the whole Supremes debacle after Mary Wilson's reductionist Dreamgirl and Randy's ill-intentioned Call Her Miss Ross. Both books made huge money for their authors with questionable intentions. And the money came from exploring and denigrating Diana's image. The inconsistency in terms of musical quality after she moved to RCA also didn't help but her public image suffered several setbacks.

During the 1990's, while she was doing so well in UK and Japan, among other territories, she was treated/viewed as some kinda of pariah in her own homeland. A very disturbing turn of events.

Then with the end of her marriage, the controversy surrounding RTL Tour and, subsequently and justifiably, her depression/addiction problems in the turn of the century, you could see that all the backlash took its toll on her. She felt unloved and rejected after decades of hard work and after having given so much to the public and the music industry. It was very disturbing and unfair. She wasn't guilty of her talent, ambition and x-factor. You have it or you don't. She had it and made good use of it.

But, fortunately, she bounced back with enormous integrity and dignity. And was finally recognized as the national treasure that she is, with the most valuable accolades as the Kennedy Center Honors, Grammy Lifetime Achievement and Presidential Medal of Freedom.

The fact is: there would be no Supremes, Michael, Madonna, Janet, Beyoncé and many others without Diana. She was the blueprint and the force behind it all. A true pioneer.

or maybe Mary & Randy told the truth and the public no longer liked what they saw .....

[reese]

my only source of info is Randy's book which has quite a bit of interesting commentary on the whole event. of course i love hearing Blue's memories too.

Randy mentions that things started out with the Executives and marketing team showing Diana the proposed theming and media approach they were wanting to use. Apparently it was a "super hero" theme with the various participants represented by cartoon super hero images and how they're all setting aside their individual activities to join forces for 1 night.

apparently they were really excited about it and, as a general concept, it could be interesting. but clearly NO ONE did any research on the brand of "DIANA ROSS" or made any attempts to brief anyone on her staff. if any ideas or images could be FURTHER away from who and what DIANA ROSS is that comic book/cartoon super heroes, i can't think of any lol

and as the story goes she was NOT pleased. Randy says this early, initial meeting was indicative of things to come lol

They showed the comic-book idea on an episode of VH1 DIVAS LIVE: BEHIND THE SCENES or something like that. I will say that after seeing the intended commercial, I agree with Diana.

[nomis]

In Mariah Carey's autobiography released last year she spill's a little tea over diffusing a situation backstage with the production over some ugly green sequin dresses they wanted her and Diana to wear

[sup_fan]

In Mariah Carey's autobiography released last year she spill's a little tea over diffusing a situation backstage with the production over some ugly green sequin dresses they wanted her and Diana to wear

and i heard there was drama about that segment overall because Donna was supposed to join as the 3rd singer so it would be a "trio" singing sup hits.

Frankly - why didn't they just include L and S more and that trio do this? then bring in each of the other women on specific songs to round it out?

[nomis]

I knew something was going on with Diana when I saw it on its original air date.. something was off about her that night..the somewhat ragged version of tmitm [[ "get the fringe Steve ! ")..I knew something was up but not what..the best thing about the whole presentation for me was all the montage footage from her career..for me the show was a big disappointment

[sup_fan]

I knew something was going on with Diana when I saw it on its original air date.. something was off about her that night..the somewhat ragged version of tmitm [[ "get the fringe Steve ! ")..I knew something was up but not what..the best thing about the whole presentation for me was all the montage footage from her career..for me the show was a big disappointment

yeah i watched it on tv during the initial broadcast, with the VCR recording. I was SO disappointed in the show. I thought, vocally, she was really off her game. her voice simply sounded rougher and just not able to handle the vocals. i don't know that i've ever bothered to rewatch the tape i made.

[reese]

and i heard there was drama about that segment overall because Donna was supposed to join as the 3rd singer so it would be a "trio" singing sup hits.

Frankly - why didn't they just include L and S more and that trio do this? then bring in each of the other women on specific songs to round it out?

I believe there was also a problem because Donna wasn't comfortable wearing the minis that they were going to wear for the medley. I think Diana was actually wearing one of Mariah's dresses or vice versa. But Donna was bigger so it probably wouldn't have been flattering. But there is some brief footage of all three rehearsing.

[reese]

I watch it every now and then but IMO, it wasn't Diana at her best. It was a good thing that it didn't broadcast live as the previous DIVAS shows did.

[Spreadinglove21]

I thought Donna Summer was the best thing of that Divas special. She was in excellent voice and did justice to Reflections. In hindsight, given what was going on in Diana Ross' life VH1 should have paid tribute to Donna that year.

Faith Hill was fine, if a bit out of place. All I remember about Mariah was her short skirt. She's never been much of a live performer IMO.

Diana Ross was a bit off, though I actually liked Touch Me in the Morning. Her phrasing on the lyrics really impressed me. I felt she had no connection with Scherrie and Lynda on the Supremes segment.

Destiny's Child was there that night. One of the few performances with Farrah Franklin, the short lived replacement member. I thought Kelly Rowland came off best on Upside Down. I think that group didn't really click until they became a trio.

[Spreadinglove21]

AS for Take Me Higher album, if I can return to original topic, that's one of my least favorite albums. I liked the title song, but back then I felt the production was a bit dated. Though in 2021 that doesn't matter now. Same with Narada Michael Walden's production on I will survive.

With the exception of Brenda Russell's I Thought we were still in love, Gone, I will survive and the title track, I thought the songs were not top drawer material. I thought the album was a step down from Force Behind the Power and Stolen Moments, both of which are packed with fine songs, especially Stolen Moments.

[Bluebrock]

Was DR's stress related to the dissolution of her marriage? That's a lot for anyone to go thru. What were the other issues going on?
It is not my place to discuss Ms Ross's personal conflicts in public. I prefer to focus on the music.

[JLoveLamar]

SpreadingLove, I am going to have to go off of topic once more, if you do not mind.

BlueBrock, can you tell us what Miss Ross was like during the Every Day Is A New Day album? I put that one back in my car just to reminisce a bit on that year. I love that album, like I do all of Miss Ross' albums. How was she during the creation and the promotion of that album? I love it so much and she sounds so good.

[sup_fan]

AS for Take Me Higher album, if I can return to original topic, that's one of my least favorite albums. I liked the title song, but back then I felt the production was a bit dated. Though in 2021 that doesn't matter now. Same with Narada Michael Walden's production on I will survive.

With the exception of Brenda Russell's I Thought we were still in love, Gone, I will survive and the title track, I thought the songs were not top drawer material. I thought the album was a step down from Force Behind the Power and Stolen Moments, both of which are packed with fine songs, especially Stolen Moments.

i remember being in college when this came out and i too thought it was a nice album but not special. i think it fit more in the AC category rather than the hot pop albums coming out at that time. it was just too bland compared to the more aggressive material from Janet, Madonna, rap and so many others at the time. I'd play some of the tracks for friends and they were usually like, "meh"

[nomis]

i remember being in college when this came out and i too thought it was a nice album but not special. i think it fit more in the AC category rather than the hot pop albums coming out at that time. it was just too bland compared to the more aggressive material from Janet, Madonna, rap and so many others at the time. I'd play some of the tracks for friends and they were usually like, "meh"

I was working in a CD shop in London when it had been released I got a big " meh " from one co worker when I played it in store and yet a customer asked who it was and bought a copy there and then on the strength of hearing " never loved a man before "..

[sup_fan]

I was working in a CD shop in London when it had been released I got a big " meh " from one co worker when I played it in store and yet a customer asked who it was and bought a copy there and then on the strength of hearing " never loved a man before "..

there were some definite moments but the title track was the Meh. and Survive was ok but Gloria Gaynor had recently released a remix dance version of her original PLUS disco was hot again so everyone simply played the original. why bother with a cover when the original is perfection? i get it that Diana loves the song. but frankly redoing it is like trying to redo the Wizard of Oz or Sound Of Music. those are perfect movies as is, and a remake would be highly derided.

[nomis]

there were some definite moments but the title track was the Meh. and Survive was ok but Gloria Gaynor had recently released a remix dance version of her original PLUS disco was hot again so everyone simply played the original. why bother with a cover when the original is perfection? i get it that Diana loves the song. but frankly redoing it is like trying to redo the Wizard of Oz or Sound Of Music. those are perfect movies as is, and a remake would be highly derided.
See sup I'm the total opposite - I love the title track and survive leaves me cold...

[JLoveLamar]

Take Me Higher is one of my favorite songs of hers, if I'm being honest. It's a song I listen to when I want to raise my vibration :). It is very hard for me to be down while that song is playing.

[Ollie9]

“Take Me Higher” is a joyous, infectious feel good song that still sounds great today. I was gutted that it never really took off here in the UK.
Diana’s “I Will Survive” has to be my favourite version of the song. It did quite well in the UK reaching 14 pop.
Having said that, i am utterly mortified she continues to perform “IWS” in concert. Had she originated the song it might possibly be different. Last time i saw her we left just as the song was starting. I remember i tripped in my haste to vacate the arena. Enough is Enough after all.
I will, you will, we will........Aghhhh.

[nomis]

“Take Me Higher” is a joyous, infectious feel good song that still sounds great today. I was gutted that it never really took off here in the UK.
Diana’s “I Will Survive” has to be my favourite version of the song. It did quite well in the UK reaching 14 pop.
Having said that, i am utterly mortified she continues to perform “IWS” in concert. Had she originated the song it might possibly be different. Last time i saw her we left just as the song was starting. I remember i tripped in my haste to vacate the arena. Enough is Enough after all.
I will, you will, we will........Aghhhh.

Ollie !! Leaving with miss Ross on stage..you know your only allowed to do that in a rain storm ! The sacrilege ! Lol

[Ollie9]

Ollie !! Leaving with miss Ross on stage..you know your only allowed to do that in a rain storm ! The sacrilege ! Lol

LOL. I know nomis and i hang my head in shame. Had it been any as in ANY ​other song the thought would never have crossed my mind. We all have our limits.

[Bluebrock]

SpreadingLove, I am going to have to go off of topic once more, if you do not mind.

BlueBrock, can you tell us what Miss Ross was like during the Every Day Is A New Day album? I put that one back in my car just to reminisce a bit on that year. I love that album, like I do all of Miss Ross' albums. How was she during the creation and the promotion of that album? I love it so much and she sounds so good.

She was not in a good place around the time of ediand. She was in great shape vocally, but she did not have the faith in that album that she had with Force and Take me higher.
She even refused to promote a proposed 2nd single in the UK due to her personal situation so we ceased all promotion for it.
A real lost opportunity.

[Bluebrock]

“Take Me Higher” is a joyous, infectious feel good song that still sounds great today. I was gutted that it never really took off here in the UK.
Diana’s “I Will Survive” has to be my favourite version of the song. It did quite well in the UK reaching 14 pop.
Having said that, i am utterly mortified she continues to perform “IWS” in concert. Had she originated the song it might possibly be different. Last time i saw her we left just as the song was starting. I remember i tripped in my haste to vacate the arena. Enough is Enough after all.
I will, you will, we will........Aghhhh.

I feel your pain Ollie, but imagine having to listen to it night after night on tour. I hated it from the start and did all in my power to prevent it from being a single, but she put her foot down [[well both feet actually) and had a diva tantrum when she heard i preferred If your not gonna love me right. I was unavailable for some of the time due to a personal tragedy, and EMI messed up badly with the choices of singles. I would have done it differently, but Diana Ross's singles were the last things on my mind around this time.

[after you]

This is absolutely one of the best albums that Diana Ross has recorded the whole album is full of great songs her voice that is recognized around the world is there she makes you feel the song and It took us higher and higher hopefully her new album will be of similar qualities

[Bluebrock]

This is absolutely one of the best albums that Diana Ross has recorded the whole album is full of great songs her voice that is recognized around the world is there she makes you feel the song and It took us higher and higher hopefully her new album will be of similar qualities

Totally agree. It only just misses out on a top 5 place in my favourite Ms Ross albums.

[Ollie9]

I feel your pain Ollie, but imagine having to listen to it night after night on tour. I hated it from the start and did all in my power to prevent it from being a single, but she put her foot down [[well both feet actually) and had a diva tantrum when she heard i preferred If your not gonna love me right. I was unavailable for some of the time due to a personal tragedy, and EMI messed up badly with the choices of singles. I would have done it differently, but Diana Ross's singles were the last things on my mind around this time.

I actually really like Diana’s version of “IWS”, but never dreamed she would be singing it at the end of every concert for the next 26 years.
Its unjust this was the only hit from an album which many still consider to be one of her best.

[vgalindo]

“Take Me Higher” is a joyous, infectious feel good song that still sounds great today. I was gutted that it never really took off here in the UK.
Diana’s “I Will Survive” has to be my favourite version of the song. It did quite well in the UK reaching 14 pop.
Having said that, i am utterly mortified she continues to perform “IWS” in concert. Had she originated the song it might possibly be different. Last time i saw her we left just as the song was starting. I remember i tripped in my haste to vacate the arena. Enough is Enough after all.
I will, you will, we will........Aghhhh.
Like everyone else. I’m so tired of Diana Ross singing “I will Survive” in her concerts. I never care to hear it again. But after saying that. I do prefer her version over the Gloria Gaynor. I never cared for the original.

[JohnnyB]

Like everyone else. I’m so tired of Diana Ross singing “I will Survive” in her concerts. I never care to hear it again. But after saying that. I do prefer her version over the Gloria Gaynor. I never cared for the original.

I Will Survive in concert is such a curiosity for me. I’ve seen Diana close more than 25 shows with the song. I never look forward to it, but am always swept away by the audience response. After Mountain, the crowd is begging for more and IWS raises that energy level higher with band solos, solos from Diana’s background singers, etc. I chuckle to myself realizing many in the audience believe this was one of Diana’s seventies hits. It’s a wonderful closing number for the crowd even if it’s not my personal choice.

[PeaceNHarmony]

Like everyone else. I’m so tired of Diana Ross singing “I will Survive” in her concerts. I never care to hear it again. But after saying that. I do prefer her version over the Gloria Gaynor. I never cared for the original.I gasp, drop to my knees, say Kaddish and a High Mass then complete with an ancient tea ceremony at your comment, sir, which SURELY is satire.

[detmotownguy]

I was a huge Ross fan up to and including Eaten Alive...although, the first 3 RCA Lps were never in my collection.
I managed to swoop up a few dozen used CD's when I purchased someone's record collection....TMH,WO, and ILY were included....sorry to say, there was nothing likable there for me
Hello, the last Ross project I purchased was Surrender that I played to death and still do. Then for Xmas, my sis in law bought me FBP AND TMH and felt that the quality was better than much of her RCA output. I felt that Keep it Right There was fairly contemporary. I did like her version of Summertime. WO = Blah.

[Ollie9]

Hits be hanged. TMH is an album that still sounds fresh and relevant today. This being one of the reasons it remains a fan favourite here in 2021
America was never going to bite no matter how delicious the cake. Diana should have focussed on promoting the album in Europe where her efforts were and still are appreciated.

[Ollie9]

I gasp, drop to my knees, say Kaddish and a High Mass then complete with an ancient tea ceremony at your comment, sir, which SURELY is satire.

Oh dear, yet another thread you disapprove of. It must be hard going at times. :eek:

[Bluebrock]

Hello, the last Ross project I purchased was Surrender that I played to death and still do. Then for Xmas, my sis in law bought me FBP AND TMH and felt that the quality was better than much of her RCA output. I felt that Keep it Right There was fairly contemporary. I did like her version of Summertime. WO = Blah.

Her 90's album were definitely of a stronger quality than her 80's albums both musically and production wise.

[Spreadinglove21]

How did Take Me Higher do in the UK and Europe compared to Force Behind the Power? Was it just a slight drop in sales/popularity, or steeper? Theories as to why it wasn't as popular? Not as much promotion as Force? Or the songs just didn't connect with the fans and general audience like Force?

[Ollie9]

Her 90's album were definitely of a stronger quality than her 80's albums both musically and production wise.

To be honest the huge UK success of FBTP took me very much by surprise. I wonder what it had that TMH didn’t?. It’s certainly more pop orientated then TMH, veering close to the vanilla at times.
Perhaps the public felt Diana was a little old to be singing such songs as “Don’t Stop”, “If Your Not Gonna Love Me Right etc etc. Songs such as “One Shining Moment, And “When You Tell Me” would appeal to a larger cross section of ages.

[Bluebrock]

To be honest the huge UK success of FBTP took me very much by surprise. I wonder what it had that TMH didn’t?. It’s certainly more pop orientated then TMH, veering close to the vanilla at times.
Perhaps the public felt Diana was a little old to be singing such songs as “Don’t Stop”, “If Your Not Gonna Love Me Right etc etc. Songs such as “One Shining Moment, And “When You Tell Me” would appeal to a larger cross section of ages.

It had a lot to do with timing.
She was based in the UK at the time, and said she would make herself available to promote the album.
We informed the tv companies of her availability. She had already been booked to headline the Royal Variety Performance, and we added further tv spots. Radio 1 and radio 2 both loved wytmtylm and put it on their A playlist. It all fell into place nicely. The public loved the single, and lapped up the album. It was a wonderful time. Diana was blissfully happy and was for the most part a joy to be around. It was the perfect formula, and it worked a treat.

[JLoveLamar]

Why wasn't she happy around EDIAND? It's SUCH a great album and she sounds FANTASTIC! I only hate that the Carry On remix is on the album and not the original!

Also, she looks GORGEOUS in the booklet. My goodness, I love black lipstick on her.

[Bluebrock]

Why wasn't she happy around EDIAND? It's SUCH a great album and she sounds FANTASTIC! I only hate that the Carry On remix is on the album and not the original!

Also, she looks GORGEOUS in the booklet. My goodness, I love black lipstick on her.
She was attempting to deal with personal issues in her life.

[nomis]

She was attempting to deal with personal issues in her life.

I gave the poster of this question an overview of Diana's struggles in this period a couple of weeks ago.. bluebrock has every right to not answer questions pertaining to miss Ross s private life

[JLoveLamar]

I gave the poster of this question an overview of Diana's struggles in this period a couple of weeks ago.. bluebrock has every right to not answer questions pertaining to miss Ross s private life

Nobody ever said he did. He always comments on things going on. If we get too personal with the questions, he can be vague, as above, and I'll take then hint and not press the issue. You are the one who replied. Not me.

As for your overview, I told yall I'm getting young. The woman made an album a year. I can't keep up with all of the eras and lines of time.

[nomis]

Nobody ever said he did. He always comments on things going on. If we get too personal with the questions, he can be vague, as above, and I'll take then hint and not press the issue. You are the one who replied. Not me.

As for your overview, I told yall I'm getting young. The woman made an album a year. I can't keep up with all of the eras and lines of time.

As you were told by other posters over this you can just Google about Diana's struggles..I showed you respect by taking time to detail the situation..just because your probably younger than me is irrelevant..I treat everyone on this forum with respect..I like your energy about miss Ross..and your free to ask the same questions again if u like..this is a forum expect replies..peace

[detmotownguy]

Her 90's album were definitely of a stronger quality than her 80's albums both musically and production wise.
That's it - the quality of the production. Right off the bat I could tell the difference. Going to listen to FBP and TMH today .....been a longtime.

[Bluebrock]

That's it - the quality of the production. Right off the bat I could tell the difference. Going to listen to FBP and TMH today .....been a longtime.

Enjoy my friend. Hope you are keeping well.

[JLoveLamar]

As you were told by other posters over this you can just Google about Diana's struggles..I showed you respect by taking time to detail the situation..just because your probably younger than me is irrelevant..I treat everyone on this forum with respect..I like your energy about miss Ross..and your free to ask the same questions again if u like..this is a forum expect replies..peace

And read about the struggles where? In Star? Us Weekly? No. I stay away from tabloids for a reason. I have no idea who these "sources say" are. There is someone in this forum who can connect the dots and who has no problem answering questions. If I have been disrespectful, Bluebrock can say so. I don't mind replies, but you said BB had every right not to answer me as if I hemmed him up against a wall with a knife to his throat. I did not press the situation at all. There was no response from me at all. You jumped the conga line for no reason. I'm just forgetful and am bad with the dates and years.