Diana Ross “Give up”

[khansperac]

What a total surprise as I was driving today and Diana’s “Give up” was played on the radio [[Sirius XM 54). A great vocal by Diana. Overall a really good song.


https://youtu.be/cr0lmZ87l-w

[jobeterob]

I thought if was amongst the best songs on the album; I prefer it over I’m Coming Out

[Bluebrock]

What a total surprise as I was driving today and Diana’s “Give up” was played on the radio [[Sirius XM 54). A great vocal by Diana. Overall a really good song.


https://youtu.be/cr0lmZ87l-w
I always thought this song was wasted as a B side. It could easily have been a decent size hit in it's own right. Great gutsy vocal performance by Diana.

[daviddh]

Loved this song.one of my favorites from Diana

[reese]

My favorite cut on that album. It sounds like Diana was really enjoying herself while recording it. It sort of reminds me of her robust vocals on THE BOSS.

[sup_fan]

i'm not sure how many of the remaining diana 80 tracks would have been hits for her in the states. My Old Piano is ok. Tenderness is SOOOOOO chic heavy. they all make up a great album but i don't know that any would be a strong 3rd single choice.

even if she had stayed with motown. it was time for her to do something new.

[George Solomon]

You might remember that in the US "Give Up" was the B side of "I'm Coming Out" only on the first pressing. Then they switched it to "Friend To Friend" same B side as "Upside Down." I asked someone at Motown at the time and they said they were getting good reaction to "Give Up" and decided not to waste it as it could be a future single.

[jobeterob]

Wasn't there a commitment to release It's My Turn and the movie was out etc?

I suppose the album had sold so much that it might have limited single sales.

[sup_fan]

it is interesting to speculate had It's My Turn NOT come out then. maybe there would have been a 3rd single. International had gone with Piano and the US later released it. maybe that would have moved up in timing

[jobeterob]

My Old Piano was a good choice at the time; now I would have chosen Give Up

[mowsville]

Actually "Give Up" WAS the B side to "Im coming Out"...."Im Coming Out" WAS originally issued with "Friend To Friend" and then they switched it and issued "Give Up" as the Bside ...not the other way round George...you can find any copy with "Give Up" as the Bside but try and find a copy with "Friend To Friend" as the Bside.

[TheMotownManiac]

You might remember that in the US "Give Up" was the B side of "I'm Coming Out" only on the first pressing. Then they switched it to "Friend To Friend" same B side as "Upside Down." I asked someone at Motown at the time and they said they were getting good reaction to "Give Up" and decided not to waste it as it could be a future single.

hey George, you got it backwards buddy. Give up was not the original B-side to I’m coming out, but when it finally got released all the subsequent pressings did have it. It seems the Motown wanted friend friend to be the original be fine, maybe because it would be the least likely ever to get airplay or single release… But I don’t know.

on another topic, you recently mentioned that there was a mono mix of shadows of society…… Is it any different than the album version? Do you have a link to it? I would love to hear it.

[George Solomon]

hey George, you got it backwards buddy. Give up was not the original B-side to I’m coming out, but when it finally got released all the subsequent pressings did have it. It seems the Motown wanted friend friend to be the original be fine, maybe because it would be the least likely ever to get airplay or single release… But I don’t know.

on another topic, you recently mentioned that there was a mono mix of shadows of society…… Is it any different than the album version? Do you have a link to it? I would love to hear it.
That's really interesting. I remember asking Tony Jones about that and he told me they were trying to save Give Up. I do have the 45 with both songs on the B side. Thanks for the correction though.
I don't have a link to the mono Shadows Of Society. It sounds like a "real" mono mix and not just a fold. It just has that fatter more crisp mono sound to it but it's the same vocal as the stereo mix. There is however a good unreleased second vocal.

[sup_fan]

George - any idea why there weren't any 12" mixes of the diana 80 tracks prepared? as huge of hits as Upside and Coming are, i'm surprised they didn't provide some remixes or extended versions to the dance clubs

[reese]

George - any idea why there weren't any 12" mixes of the diana 80 tracks prepared? as huge of hits as Upside and Coming are, i'm surprised they didn't provide some remixes or extended versions to the dance clubs

This surprised me as well.

I remember going to record stores and looking for 12"s of UPSIDE DOWN or I'M COMING OUT. I never found any, at least not from Motown in the USA. I do remember finding an import with both songs on the same disc.

[khansperac]

Don’t know if this deserves its own thread, but here is a video of Fonzi Thornton discussing the making of the “diana” album.


https://youtu.be/8at62GStxwU

[mowsville]

"I'm Coming Out" was actually slated to be the lead single from the "Diana" album and thats why the B side was changed..this can be verified by looking at the catalogue numbers on the singles..."I'm Coming Out" is M1491 and "Upside Down" is M1494.

[George Solomon]

"I'm Coming Out" was actually slated to be the lead single from the "Diana" album and thats why the B side was changed..this can be verified by looking at the catalogue numbers on the singles..."I'm Coming Out" is M1491 and "Upside Down" is M1494.
Yes and that makes sense. I always wondered if I'm Coming Out would have leaped to #1 as quickly as Upside Down. Or if Upside Down would have been as big if it was the follow up.
Back to the original topic, the first time I heard the album I thought Give Up was single material. Who knows what would have happened if they didn't have to put out It's My Turn when they did?

[Levi Stubbs Tears]

The immortal words 'I have not met a man yet to escape from my dragnet' lol

[RanRan79]

Don’t know if this deserves its own thread, but here is a video of Fonzi Thornton discussing the making of the “diana” album.


https://youtu.be/8at62GStxwU

That was a great story. I know I'm in the minority, but I just don't care for this album. I only play the two singles and "My Old Piano", which is my fav song on the entire album. Such a pity that she didn't record "I Got Protection". I just looked it up to give it a listen and I imagine that with a Diana vocal it might be the fourth song I play on the set.

[reese]

That was a great story. I know I'm in the minority, but I just don't care for this album. I only play the two singles and "My Old Piano", which is my fav song on the entire album. Such a pity that she didn't record "I Got Protection". I just looked it up to give it a listen and I imagine that with a Diana vocal it might be the fourth song I play on the set.

I was happy that "diana" was such a huge success. But on first listen, I wasn't enamored with it, especially considering how much I loved its predecessor, THE BOSS. But eventually I grew to love a few tracks like TENDERNESS, GIVE UP, and NOW THAT YOU'RE GONE. But it wouldn't be one of my "desert island" discs.

[RanRan79]

I was happy that "diana" was such a huge success. But on first listen, I wasn't enamored with it, especially considering how much I loved its predecessor, THE BOSS. But eventually I grew to love a few tracks like TENDERNESS, GIVE UP, and NOW THAT YOU'RE GONE. But it wouldn't be one of my "desert island" discs.

I could sit through "Tenderness" and "Now That You're Gone" and not be upset.

[daviddh]

So many great songs and vocals.
give up ....was one of my fav tracks on the album along with my old piano.
One I didn't like originally was have fun again but it sounds so chic to me.i would have preferred another friend to friend type song.my other fav track.
Now that your gone is really good

[mowsville]

"Now That Your Gone" is AWESOME.

[Guy]

I am always amazed that there is such indifference to "diana" amongst her diehards. It is her biggest-seller, who bought all those records?

It has become my favorite Ross album -- I always liked it but discovery of the original Chic mixes really lifted it over her other efforts. But I guess it's because I LOVE everything Chic. I also love everything Nile and Bernard did separately after Chic.

"Give Up" is fun but probably my least favorite track on the album. In my humble opinion, Ross has not attacked another project with the fervor and gusto she gave to "diana." "I'm Coming Out" and "My Old Piano" are each a solid 10 on the Ross-ebullience meter. Neither is my favorite song but she has hardly ever sounded as committed.

[khansperac]

“Have fun again” is a great track.

[daviddh]

I remember not liking the album originally ...it was heavy on chic....
But in hindsight is it much different to ashford and simpson sound or a bee gees sound....also good albums.
I suppose right time right place.
Always thought EA should have been her first RCA album minus the title track.
The Diana album grew on me and it's in my top five.
I would thought Give Up as a single could have been huge

[RanRan79]

I am always amazed that there is such indifference to "diana" amongst her diehards. It is her biggest-seller, who bought all those records?

My guess is the general public. The album was very contemporary for the time. Chic was HUGE. My personal tastes aside, Diana does connect to the sound. It's not disjointed or a mismatch. I would also suggest that the public didn't always bother with Diana's better artistic expressions. IMO The Boss lp was worlds better than diana80, song for song, note for note, vocal for vocal. In fact I would say artistically speaking all of Diana's previous albums, with the exceptions of Last Time and Ross78, were far better than diana80, yet it was this one that folks ran out to get like none of the others.

It sort of reminds me of anecdotes of various artists where the artist is serious about her/his music and racks up a catalog of critically acclaimed music along with some hits or decent sellers, but it's the one silly ditty or the one album the artists cuts with a hip producer to satisfy the record label that becomes the giant seller and/or most memorable set of music for the artist. Yes, that's how I view diana80, if any of that makes sense.

[Levi Stubbs Tears]

What a total surprise as I was driving today and Diana’s “Give up” was played on the radio

It is a strange feeling when you are in a supermarket or shopping centre or even on a radio station when you hear a song from 20-30 [[etc) years ago and think 'omg I must be the only person listening who knows what this song is).

For me - with 'diana' - Give Up was probably the #5 song on the album that could've been a single. Only 'Have Fun [[Again), 'Friend to Friend' or [[I love it, but probably not a single) 'Now that You're Gone' were less likely to be up the top of the singles charts.

I still think if Upside Down [[same time as album release), then I'm Coming Out, then My Old Piano were released before 'It's My Turn' [[with 'Tenderness' as the next single soon after) 1980 could have been an even more stellar year for Ms Ross.

Doubly so if all of them had music videos to promote them around the world.

[Levi Stubbs Tears]

I would also suggest that the public didn't always bother with Diana's better artistic expressions.

That sounds a bit snobbish. As a teenager when 'diana' was released in 1980, it turned me onto her music. Yes of course I'd heard 'baby love' and other songs played on AM radio. Yes, I'd seen her sing ballads on oscar performances. But 'diana' showed me she still had it what it took to attract a modern youthful audience.

Unfortunately, except for songs like 'Swept Away' or 'Chain Reaction' on RCA, her 80s output showed she actually didn't.

[RanRan79]

That sounds a bit snobbish. As a teenager when 'diana' was released in 1980, it turned me onto her music. Yes of course I'd heard 'baby love' and other songs played on AM radio. Yes, I'd seen her sing ballads on oscar performances. But 'diana' showed me she still had it what it took to attract a modern youthful audience.

Unfortunately, except for songs like 'Swept Away' or 'Chain Reaction' on RCA, her 80s output showed she actually didn't.

Can't help if it sounds "snobbish", it isn't, but my feeling still stands. The general public snatched up diana80 because it played to the public's need for the same ole same ole. The Chic sound was one of the in things, even though this was one of the last hurrahs, I guess. The Boss was fresh and IMO better but didn't garner the same results. I view diana80 like I do some of the stuff I hear out today, where the public would rather buy a Megan the Stallion album than a Ledisi one. If that makes me a snob, so be it.

[jobeterob]

My memory is that Diana was the #1 artist in billboard for 1980 - maybe it was #1 singles artist

[daviddh]

I do agree in many ways ...the boss was a better album.
Ross just sings her butt off. The entire album is amazing start to finish.
Just don't get where she was going with WDFFIL .huge let down.

[Boogiedown]

As the Eighties arrived , the industry had declared war on [[too costly) disco , declared it flat out dead [[ they ought to know , they killed it). Trouble is no one had told Chic or Diana Ross, nor the clubs , especially the still surging gay ones , who needed this kind of material to keep their floors filled. The general public also wasn't automatically anti disco, and tended to support it when/if they were exposed to it and could get their hands on it as happened in this case when two giant names converged.

[Guy]

That sounds a bit snobbish. As a teenager when 'diana' was released in 1980, it turned me onto her music. Yes of course I'd heard 'baby love' and other songs played on AM radio. Yes, I'd seen her sing ballads on oscar performances. But 'diana' showed me she still had it what it took to attract a modern youthful audience.

You make an excellent point [[not about RanRan's opinion) about "diana" making her modern and contemporary. Up to that point her output was very MOR pop/soul. Music that was tailored for audiences even OLDER than Ross. I've said before that as much as I love "The Boss" album, those songs would have fit Natalie Cole, Deniece Williams, Melba Moore or Dionne just as well -- and would have been just as warmly received as Ross' effort.

"diana" is distinctively Ross, it is the fullest realization of her artistry on record. Because we all know she is not a bellowing soul diva capable of hitting whistle notes or holding long sustains. "diana" is perfectly tailored to her vocal strengths -- delicate, emotive warmth, sensuality and exuberance -- and her persona as a uber-glamorous diva. Only she could have pulled off those songs and made them hits. Not Sister Sledge, or Norma Jean, Alfa or Lucie -- and certainly not Aretha. Sung by anyone else, "I'm Coming Out" would have sunk like a stone.

[Levi Stubbs Tears]

The general public snatched up diana80 because it played to the public's need for the same ole same ole. The Boss was fresh and IMO better but didn't garner the same results.

diana turned me onto The Boss [[which I think is a great album) but if it hadn't been for diana I would never have bothered with Diana's back catalogue. I certainly never heard any of the songs on it on the radio or saw them on the TV [[until that HBO special played on TV, probably as a result of higher profile after her hits from diana).

I remember my Dad saying 'what a load of rubbish' when Upside Down hit #1 downunder and he saw it on a TV music show with me. He was a big Johnny Mathis fan and I can only imagine what he would have thought if Johnny had released his Chic album a little later ;)

[rovereab]

I think Guy sums up Diana’s vocal abilities that shine through on the album. I’d never thought of that angle before. However, there is one vocal skill that Diana has that is not represented there, and rightly so in the context of the album’s style. I’ve always enjoyed a song by Diana where she is backed by a gospel choir. For me, Diana’s voice blends perfectly with such a backing.

Having said that, I do think the album is a brilliant reinvention of a superstar, starting with the cover picture.

[Bluebrock]

diana turned me onto The Boss [[which I think is a great album) but if it hadn't been for diana I would never have bothered with Diana's back catalogue. I certainly never heard any of the songs on it on the radio or saw them on the TV [[until that HBO special played on TV, probably as a result of higher profile after her hits from diana).

I remember my Dad saying 'what a load of rubbish' when Upside Down hit #1 downunder and he saw it on a TV music show with me. He was a big Johnny Mathis fan and I can only imagine what he would have thought if Johnny had released his Chic album a little later ;)

"Diana" was a groundbreaking album for sure. It doesn't quite make my top 5 Ross albums, but it sure as hell makes my top 10. It contains some of her finest vocals. Nile and Bernard really pushed her hard in the studio. Everyone involved knew this album was a huge gamble. Chic's records were no longer selling and disco was very much on the wane. It could easily have been a momentous flop, but that magnificent production and instrumentation coupled with Diana's gutsy vocals ensured it would become a critics darling despite some early negative reviews. It continued the great work started by The Boss in putting Diana in an exciting and modern setting. Most long term fans were delighted by this re-invention.
It is disrespectful to suggest the record buying public did not respond to some of her more artistic expressions. Lady Sings The Blues contained many of her finest vocal performances and sold by the bucketload as did Touch me in the morning and Diana Ross76. Surrender was very successful in the UK. The Boss may have underperformed but it still went gold. That album remains my own personal favorite, but i would never attempt to diss the quality of the Diana album which still sounds fresh and relevant today.

[sup_fan]

diana is an excellent album but everyone will have their own personal fav. for me, The Boss is the top album because:

the majestic sound A&S created of infusing gospel and R&B into disco

flawless song selection and album track lineup

perfect vocals from diana, glorious productions

stunning album cover and packing


Now diana 1980 gets credit for being a totally new sound for diana. a complete reinvention. i mean - look at the cover art! this was totally urban, hip, disco without being too disco. This type of career reinvention, particularly when it happens to just tap into some sort of vibe within the young population, is what keeps artists alive

So my personal favorite is the Boss but i do fully recognize the power and importance of diana 80

[sup_fan]

"Diana" was a groundbreaking album for sure. It doesn't quite make my top 5 Ross albums, but it sure as hell makes my top 10. It contains some of her finest vocals. Nile and Bernard really pushed her hard in the studio. Everyone involved knew this album was a huge gamble. Chic's records were no longer selling and disco was very much on the wane. It could easily have been a momentous flop, but that magnificent production and instrumentation coupled with Diana's gutsy vocals ensured it would become a critics darling despite some early negative reviews. It continued the great work started by The Boss in putting Diana in an exciting and modern setting. Most long term fans were delighted by this re-invention.
It is disrespectful to suggest the record buying public did not respond to some of her more artistic expressions. Lady Sings The Blues contained many of her finest vocal performances and sold by the bucketload as did Touch me in the morning and Diana Ross76. Surrender was very successful in the UK. The Boss may have underperformed but it still went gold. That album remains my own personal favorite, but i would never attempt to diss the quality of the Diana album which still sounds fresh and relevant today.

agreed!!

But i think the Boss was much more traditional disco and had it been released in 80, would have flopped. even though dance music of course continued, "disco" was now a dirty word. As House, Techno, Electronic started becoming the appropriate terms for dance music, you needed something that could bridge that. And even though Chic was a huge disco act and presence, Rodgers and Edwards proved they could evolve.

You're absolutely right diana 80 was a gamble. it was released at the time when disco was dead but people didn't necessarily know what was next or how dance music would evolve. This urban feel to diana was just perfect. it was so "New York" in style and attitude. Even with the more commercial mixes Russ and Diana pulled together.

it's a shame this level of reinvention never really appeared again in her career