How come a group's best-selling song is often it's worst?

[tsull1]

My Cameo below thread got me thinking ... they're biggest seller is "Word Up" which I think blows chips. It's not good, IMO. How does "Candy" not outsell "Word Up" -- really?

I eat, breath, sleep, drink Spinners music, but right now the top viewed Spinners video on YouTube is that pile of dung novelty song "Rubberband Man". Thom Bell said he wasn't into novelty songs; wish he hadn't written it, to be honest.

Lionel Ritchie and Diana Ross have large catalogs of awesome material from groups and solo projects. They teammed up for one of the worst songs on the planet in "Endless Love" which sold gazillions.

If I hear "Satisfaction" by The Rolling Stones one more time, I swear I'm going to lose my lunch, yet the Stones could've made just this tune and no others and been very rich.

Earth, Wind, and Fire, I'm guessing, cashed out big time with "After the Love Has Gone" a tune I really liked at first, but now just tolerate. "Love's Holiday" blows it away if you want to choose EWF ballads.

As tired as I am of "My Girl" I understand why people love it, but I'd like oldies stations to bring out "Don't Look Back" and "I Wish it Would Rain" and put "My Girl" to rest.

Perhaps my musical tastes just don't mesh with the public, but sometimes I just don't get these zillion sellers.

[paladin]

Interesting observation Tim, although I don't agree with your statement as written, I certainly understand and respect your viewpoint.

Rubberband man was indeed a novelty song and I too thought it sucked, but after I saw them perform it live , it was more digestible. Please brother I don't know what makes a "hit" record any more than anyone else, but oft times I'm left shaking my head at what most consumers simply go ga-ga over.

Since you love the Spinners as much as anyone and I tend to favor the Temptations let me use this example.

Unite The World by them was a hit, although you could never convince me of that !

All I Need was ok but every time I heard it I thought about "You Cant Hurry Love" yet in most corners people rave about DR's delivery of the song. I always felt it was better suited for the Four Tops.......

Satisfaction and My Girl simply defined the sixties and I can live with those, although The Stones Miss You is approaching iconic status.

Endless Love....omg.....please if I never, ever, never, ever hear that song again it'll be too soon.

Cee-lo had a tremendous hit with his FU record, duh ? Rhianna has hit records that I wouldn't play for my worst enemies ....oh well ...........

[luke]

I think you answered your question with Satisfaction. Some songs played to death hence sick of them--Baby Love, My Girl, Hey Jude...Superb songs in and of themselves but almost too good!

[tsull1]

OK, Paladin, I'll give you the R-Man is kind of fun in concert with those giant rubberbands. They ended their show in Tacoma with that -- the place went nuts. I wanted the song played earlier to get it over with. I would've ended with something else, perhaps "Games People Play" or "Working My Way Back to You" -- something like that.

Yes, a lot of the songs I have posted I liked but have heard too much. "Satisfaction" is well written and it defines the 60's, but if I listen to my car radio enough, I will hear it every day no problem.

I even like some of Lionel Richie's schmaltz -- don't laugh, I like "Penny Lover." [[OK, I just got my man card revoked ... :>)

I do find it amusing that some of my least favorite songs from great groups are their biggest sellers.

[mellow_q]

Over the years of interviewing numerous artists about countless songs, I've learned that there are so many things beyond a song's quality that determine how big of a hit it becomes. In addition to some of the examples above ...

When you think of Enchantment, the first thing that comes to mind is "Gloria." However, "It's You That I Need" was the one that toped the charts.

Some songs just happen to capture a particular "flava of the moment."

For example, when you think of Jeffrey Osborne's solo career, certain songs come to mind: "On the Wings of Love, "Don't You Get So Mad," "I Really Don't Need No Light," Only Human," 'Woo-Woo" and others that continue to receive airplay. However, his only song to hit # 1 was the perky "She's On the Left." When I interviewed him, he said that A&M Records had just brought in a new publicity team that was looking to make a name for itself and they got behind it and took it to the top. In all honesty, he doesn't particularly care for the song. More specifically, he said, "In concert, I never perform it, and no one asks for it."

It's the same with Phyllis Hyman. By sheer numbers, her biggest hit was 1991's "Don't Wanna Change the World." It just happened to fit into the format of what received airplay at that time, but most of her true fans can't stand the song.

In response to some of the song's listed above, "Love's Holiday" is by far my favorite EWF ballad. However, keep in mind that it was never issued as a single. Also, Verdine White admitted to me that the group errer by not titling it "Would You Mind."

Diana Ross was as hot as a firecracker after "Upside Down" and the public was quickly recognizing Lionel as the top gun in the Commodores, particularly after they had gone middle-of-the road the past few years, so anything they put out in the spring / summer of 1981 was goining to sell thru the roof. Having said that, I never liked the song.

Just as you wish radio stations would play more Temptations songs than "My Girl," I wish they would play more Aretha songs than "Respect" and "You Make Me Feel Like a Natural Woman." You'll never hear "Call Me," "Rock Steady" or "Day Dreaming," all of which crossed over big time.

Two things to keep in mind ... Everyone goofs on "Float On," but it topped the R&B charts for five weeks. I've yet to meet one person who likes "Shake Your Groove Thing," yet a million people went to the record store and purchased it.

Just my two cents ..


Marc Taylor

[marv2]

It's called reaching the lowest common denominator [[in terms of public tastes!). Simplistic lyrics, a monotonous hook and very unimaginative instrumentation and you have a hit on your hands many times!

[marv2]

OK, Paladin, I'll give you the R-Man is kind of fun in concert with those giant rubberbands. They ended their show in Tacoma with that -- the place went nuts. I wanted the song played earlier to get it over with. I would've ended with something else, perhaps "Games People Play" or "Working My Way Back to You" -- something like that.

Yes, a lot of the songs I have posted I liked but have heard too much. "Satisfaction" is well written and it defines the 60's, but if I listen to my car radio enough, I will hear it every day no problem.

I even like some of Lionel Richie's schmaltz -- don't laugh, I like "Penny Lover." [[OK, I just got my man card revoked ... :>)

I do find it amusing that some of my least favorite songs from great groups are their biggest sellers.

Tsull, you are done with me! Next you'll be telling me you like "Hello"! Ughh! LOL!!!!

[luke]

Im running for the hills but there is something about the melody to Endless Love that gets to me--when Diana starts to go up the scale-your eyes tell me how much...though I absolutely cant tolerate most of Lionel's slow stuff.

[tsull1]

;););)

Ha, Marv! No, I can't stand "Hello" ... shouldn't have tipped my hand on "Penny Lover."

"Shake Your Groove Thing" is brutally bad, sold zillions and yes, I don't know anyone likes it.

Agree on Aretha tunes as well as Tempts on the radio, the catalog goes about 1 or 2 deep. "Respect" is a kick a$$ tune, but I'm tired of it.

Good point on "Love's Holiday" -- is the phrase love's holiday even spoken in the tune? They really blew it there because that's a fantastic song.

[timmyfunk]

You raise some interesting points tsull. But I can definitely site some exceptions:

Let's Stay Together definitely ain't Al Green's worst.

EWF's biggest was "Shining Star", their only number one pop hit. Compared to their earlier work, it may not be their best, but it ain't their worst.

The Isley Brothers "It's Your Thing" definitely ranks as one their best singles and it was their highest charting hit.

Stevie Wonder's "I Wish" still ranks as his biggest hit. I wouldn't call that song his worst.

[paladin]

OK, Paladin, I'll give you the R-Man is kind of fun in concert with those giant rubberbands. They ended their show in Tacoma with that -- the place went nuts.


Right, it was a great gimmick, and thats why they call it entertainment !


Some songs just happen to capture a particular "flava of the moment."

Shake your groove thing was a real party record...disco yes !





Stevie Wonder's "I Wish" still ranks as his biggest hit. I wouldn't call that song his worst.


True that, its one of my all time favorites not only was it the flava of the moment Stevie and the band kicked azz.....


Speaking of Lionel Richie. whew ...after his funk period with the Commodores, I was simply disinterested, however as a dancer his "Love Will Find a Way" was a big stepper club hit and I loved it, but then as a Stepper I loved his alter ego Michael Bolton's "Can I Touch You There" strange indeed.......lol.....






It's called reaching the lowest common denominator [[in terms of public tastes!). Simplistic lyrics, a monotonous hook and very unimaginative instrumentation and you have a hit on your hands many times!


Whoa ...Marv you sound like a writer for Dick Clark...ROTFLMBAO !


This thread really reminds me of the way we used to tackle different subjects and exchange musical ideas and information on the old forum...great work guys, I mean it.....

[daviddesper]

I say "Amen" to all the people who hated Endless Love. Count me in on that as well. As for other huge Motown hits that I just couldn't grasp, I would have to put Papa Was a Rolling Stone in the mix, as well as Let's Get it On and Someday We'll Be Together. To a lesser degree, I could even include Dancing in the Street. Yes, I understand its place in society at the time, and it really is a great record, but comparing Martha to Martha, I would take Nowhere to Run, I'm Ready for Love, Bless You, and half a dozen others anytime over Dancing.

[uptight]

The use of music videos as a marketing tool helped some tunes like "Word Up" in the 80s.

And like Marc said, some of the records were the flavor of the moment, during a time when the public was looking for other kinds of escapism, and that genre of music that would become passe.

While I would prefer to play these "overplayed" songs on my OWN terms, when I want to hear them instead, I believe records like "Respect" and "My Girl" really are classic tunes that define an era. Hearing them on the radio ad infinitum shouldn't diminish the fact that many of the ones mentioned in this thread are great tunes.

[roger]

Stevie Wonder's "I Wish" still ranks as his biggest hit. I wouldn't call that song his worst.

In the U.K. the biggest solo Stevie tune was "I Just Called To Say I Love You" .. it topped the British charts for 6 weeks in 1984 .. now I WOULD say that is one of his worst. His only other #1 was his collaboration with PAUL McCARTNEY in 1981 .. "Ebony and Ivory" .. another clunker to my ears!!

With THE SPINNERS their only U.K #1 was "Working My Way Back to You" in 1980, which to me is just so-so .. I have to admit I prefer "Rubber-Band Man" .. but then that only peaked at #16 on the U.K. chart so it has never been overplayed on British radio.

As to "Shake Your Groove Thing" .. I rushed out to buy it in 1979, it had a good groove [[ a bit like "Hot Line" by THE SYLVERS ) and seemed to capture the moment. I have to admit I think I still have the 12" but I doubt if I've played it in over 30 years.

Some HUGE U.K. hits that I find virtually unlistenable by Soul/R&B artists who I generally love include ..

"The Hustle" - VAN McCOY .. #3 on the U.K. chart in 1975 .. I heard it, I rushed out to buy a copy, I got home, after about I week I'd tired of it. His similarly styled "The Shuffle" got to #4 in Britain in 1977 .. I never even bothered to get a copy I just never liked it .. too like "The Hustle".

"Frankie" - SISTER SLEDGE .. got to #1 on the U.K. chart in 1985 .. eeeergh!!

"My Toot Toot" - DENISE LASALLE .. #6 in 1986 and her only U.K. chart entry .. silly novelty tune .. I don't mind it but it is still one of her worst.

I think Marv2 got it right, with a catchy hook you can get a hit by appealing to the lowest common denominator. And lets not forget that you don't have to sell that many records to get a big hit record. Back in 1970s Britain we had a population of just over 50 Million and by selling half a million copies of your record you would normally get in the Top 3 and have a huge hit that supposedly everybody loved [[ or at least that is what the marketing consultants would have us believe ). So if just ONE percent of the population bought a record it was assumed that it was hugely popular.


Roger

[soulster]

Hey, everybody, are we talking about songs that we think are truly bad, or just songs we are tired of hearing? They aren't always the same thing.

It's pick and choose for me, but I do not agree with your picks, tsull.

While I don't care that much for Rubberband Man, I don't think it's that bad of a song, either. Too bad it's the runaway favorite among most casual fans. That vote goes to their cover of Cupid [[Cupid/I've Loved You For A Long Time).

I really disagree with you on the song Word Up. It's one of Cameo's finest moments. But, when I pull up some Cameo to listen to, it's going to be the Knights of the Sound Table, Single Life, or Alligator Woman albums.

Again, I disagree with you on EWF's After The Love Is Gone. While I have no love for the vast majority of anything collaborator David Foster worked on, it's far from being the worst EWF has done. For their classic period, I submit September. Again, it's the favorite among the casual crowd, but I always thought the song blew chunks. It was too obvious an attempt to get the pop [[white) audience. It worked. Thing of it is, they didn't need to do it. They had already been near or at the top of the pop charts several times with Shining Star, That's The Way Of the World, Getaway, Sing A Song, Fantasy, and Got To Get You Into My Life. Another EWF song that was an obvious grab was Let's Groove. Phew! Why the single mix of Fall In Love With Me didn't hit the top 10 is beyond me. It was a great return to their classic sound before they jumped the shark.

Endless Love??? Puleeeeze. What a rotten piece of garbage!

Don't get me started on Stevie Wonder's Isn't She Lovely! I probably hate the song as much as he does now. But, i'd rather listen to it than I Just called To say I Love You. Another casual fan favorite. When it came out, I was really disappointed in Stevie for writing such drivel, that and Don't Drive Drunk.

Shake Your Groove Thing by Peaches & Herb? I guess y'all forgot how much they overplayed Reunited back in 1979.

[markdtiller]

Let's face it - a lot of people just don't have any TASTE!

[markdtiller]

You know if I found a radio station that played didn't play the same old songs we've heard again and again and took the risk of playing some of the lesser hits and hidden gems, I'd tune in and I bet they would win in the ratings. I don't play the radio in the UK as apert from the odd show it's just the same old tired tunes in circulation.

[tsull1]

I believe "I just called to make sure you didn't puke after hearing this song" was Stevie's biggest hit. It's up there with "Endless Barf" on the wretch meter.

OK, not ALL of the worst songs are the best sellers, but my point is proven: a lot of these bad songs not only sell, they sell big, big, big.

Still not a "Rubberband Man" guy and I've got the entire Spinners catalog and as we know, am a huge fan. You've got some unreal singers in that group [[Wynne then Edwards, Smith, Fambrough, Jackson) you gotta give them better material than that. Though I think Smith bought one of his 15 Cadillacs off the royalties. :cool:

* How does that Hall & Oates song go? "Some Things Are Better Left Unsaid." I tipped my hand to a friend on liking "Penny Lover" and she took me to the woodshed! Ha! I ain't talking about that anymore!

[randy_russi]

The biggest hit is played so much that you start to hate it!

[marv2]

"Endless Barf" hahahahaha.,...

My earlier point can be made by none other than "Barney", the purple dinosaour! How does his song go? " I love you, you love me, we're as happy as can be......" Bam! Now that's a hit! It's simple and easy to remember.

[marv2]

The biggest hit is played so much that you start to hate it!

Such as Olivia Newton John's legendary hit from '81 "Physical"! They played that thing it seems around the clock on some stations out West for MONTHS! Turn on the TV and it was on "Solid Gold" all the time! Geez!

[tamla617]

lovely day,bill withers,the last [[seems like 2 hours) few minutes goes on and on and the dayyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyy y bit starts to get inside me and stick pins deep inside what brain i have left and that record is on everydayyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyy yyyyyyy
the song is good but wrecked by bills lack of imagination to finish the thing 3 minutes earlier or write properly

[soulster]

lovely day,bill withers,the last [[seems like 2 hours) few minutes goes on and on and the dayyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyy y bit starts to get inside me and stick pins deep inside what brain i have left and that record is on everydayyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyy yyyyyyy
the song is good but wrecked by bills lack of imagination to finish the thing 3 minutes earlier or write properly

I love the song and never tire of hearing it. Can you hold that note for that long? I once timed it for about 20 seconds.

[glencro]

Bobby McFerrin who is a true artist in every sense of the word publicly stated how much he hated "Don't Worry, Be Happy". I'm sure he didn't hate the checks from it though but that is his biggest hit to date. It was catchy but far beneath his more creative music.

Chaka Khan cringed at the rap and the sound of her named repeatedly on I Feel For You. It became a major hit for her and probablky one ofmy least favorite Chaka songs.

Peobo Bryson's "If Ever You're In My Arms Again" was a nice crossover song for him but doesn't compare to his more soulful Capital material during his early days.

Sister Sledge once said that they were so tired of singing "We Are Family" but were thankful for it when the hits stopped coming, that song kept them steadily touring for 8 years after its release.

I'm a huge fan of album tracks . Usually when I buy a cd my favorite song is not the hit or single from it. I get really irritated when I go to concerts and the performer do their biggest hit and half the crowd leaves since they've heard what they wanted to hear. Give me the rare, b-side album cuts any day.

[tamla617]

soulster
i like the song,i bought the album in 77.its that ending that cocks it big time.
i'm sure that note holding is engineered [[you'd know if anyone does) it sounds like just when its about to die it cranks up again.
and the winnits in the background repeating lovely day ad infinitum.but i do like the early parts!

[soulster]

soulster
i like the song,i bought the album in 77.its that ending that cocks it big time.
i'm sure that note holding is engineered [[you'd know if anyone does) it sounds like just when its about to die it cranks up again.
and the winnits in the background repeating lovely day ad infinitum.but i do like the early parts!

What are you talking about???

[tamla617]

soulster
i'm talking about the note holding [[20 secs) that you mentioned.it sounds like they "made it longer"

and no i probably cant hold a note that long,i bet he's crap at wing repairs tho'!

[daddyacey]

EWF's "Boogie Wonderland" , just broke my heart when I first heard it. Couldn't believe they went from spiritual/cosmic to flat out Kaa-Kaa.

Aint No Stopping Us Now , ---It's just a damn shame how Radio and Dance/Disco Club D.J.'s ,ran a nice song ,into the ground.

Lately my patience is being tested , by the constant rotation of the classic "Mr Big Stuff". I just cant , not like it though , with that Bassline and those Horns. Some things you just can't let "Them" ruin for you. :D:D

[soulster]

soulster
i'm talking about the note holding [[20 secs) that you mentioned.it sounds like they "made it longer"

and no i probably cant hold a note that long,i bet he's crap at wing repairs tho'!

Heh! Oh yeah! Well, diff'rent strokes...I used to be able to hold that note for 20 seconds, but i'll bet it was comped on the recording. Bill Withers was a smoker.

[soulster]

EWF's "Boogie Wonderland" , just broke my heart when I first heard it. Couldn't believe they went from spiritual/cosmic to flat out Kaa-Kaa.

I like the song, but was overall disappointed in the album "I Am". I felt EWF was trying to chase the disco crowd. But, of course, since it was less R&B and funk, the pop crowd loved it. I bring up the "All 'N All" album and all they know is the song "Fantasy". Clearly, pop audiences don't really like R&B.


Aint No Stopping Us Now , ---It's just a damn shame how Radio and Dance/Disco Club D.J.'s ,ran a nice song ,into the ground.

I was fortunate. I didn't hear that song much in 1979 in clubs and radio. I did have the 12" single, and it's the only version I can listen to.


Lately my patience is being tested , by the constant rotation of the classic "Mr Big Stuff". I just cant , not like it though , with that Bassline and those Horns. Some things you just can't let "Them" ruin for you. :D:D

But, then there are some songs I never get tired of. I can listen to them all day long. I'm OCD. :)

[reese]

Heh! Oh yeah! Well, diff'rent strokes...I used to be able to hold that note for 20 seconds, but i'll bet it was comped on the recording. Bill Withers was a smoker.

I remember Bill lipsyncing the song on the Mike Douglas Show. He didn't mime the note holding long enough, and broke up laughing.

[arrr&bee]

my cameo below thread got me thinking ... They're biggest seller is "word up" which i think blows chips. It's not good, imo. How does "candy" not outsell "word up" -- really?

I eat, breath, sleep, drink spinners music, but right now the top viewed spinners video on youtube is that pile of dung novelty song "rubberband man". Thom bell said he wasn't into novelty songs; wish he hadn't written it, to be honest.

Lionel ritchie and diana ross have large catalogs of awesome material from groups and solo projects. They teammed up for one of the worst songs on the planet in "endless love" which sold gazillions.

If i hear "satisfaction" by the rolling stones one more time, i swear i'm going to lose my lunch, yet the stones could've made just this tune and no others and been very rich.

Earth, wind, and fire, i'm guessing, cashed out big time with "after the love has gone" a tune i really liked at first, but now just tolerate. "love's holiday" blows it away if you want to choose ewf ballads.

As tired as i am of "my girl" i understand why people love it, but i'd like oldies stations to bring out "don't look back" and "i wish it would rain" and put "my girl" to rest.

Perhaps my musical tastes just don't mesh with the public, but sometimes i just don't get these zillion sellers.tsull,you preaching to the choir,i say this all the time,i could name a million of em[no pun intended]take for example the song[i don't want to lose you-steve mancha]not a bad song but today i don't much care for it but turn it over[i need to be needed]kicks,take ruby and the romantics body of work...of course[our day will come]is a great classic,but it wasn't the only great song they did..young wings can fly,my summer love are killers,how about major lance[without a doubt] and it's b-side[forever]for every hit there's a miss but it seems we remember the missed ones more as time goes by!

[tomato tom]

Great thread.... Charlene's Ive Never Been To Me was played, and played, and played to DEATH! I cant stand it!..Paulo xxx

[tsull1]

Stevie Wonder's "I Just Called to Say I Can't Believe This Song Sold Zillions" perhaps isn't his biggest hit, but it's way up there.

The Spinners have a deep, rich catalog, and while "Then Came You" is their best seller, the pretty sub-par "Rubberband Man" is way up there.

I mentioned "Word Up" which doesn't hold a candle to "Candy" or "Sparkle" or "Single Life" or "She's Strange."

Not sure what EWF's best is, "That's the Way of the World" [[on my Pandora right now) is probably my favorite tune and it's epic. I'm guessing the popish "Boogie Wonderland" is probably their biggest hit.

The poster children for this is the group Chicago, which kicked a$$ in the late 60's/early 70's with some hard driving Terry Kath guitar leads and a phenomenal brass section. They sold out with some ballads that sold bazillions and never touched a jazzy brass tune again ... sigh.

[tomato tom]

Now in th UK we have Lionel revisiting his hits via a crisp advert on tv. Chips to you U.S. readers.AAAAARRRRGGHHHH

[tsull1]

I think it comes down to this: I asked my brother, a former Chicago fan, on why they sold out on ballads.

He said: "It's like the Simpson's episode when Krsuty the Clown is asked why he sold out. "I couldn't help myself. They had this big dump truck that poured money into my backyard."

[mr_june]

Wow! I started a thread a few years ago on the very things you mentioned in your post Markdtiller. I also said that I don't listen to the radio anymore for music cause like you said they play the same old thing. I'd like to get on the air and play some of the stuff I have. There are tons of good music from back in the day that doesn't get played anymore. Tons!