If I were BG

[daviddh]

If I were BG....I would have not released .
1.bit of liverpool.
2.sing country
3.we remember....
Instead I would have released There's a Place for Us in April 65
At the copa hi get pushed to April 66 .I would not release both copa n merry Christmas together
To much product.
I think more hits would have done far better without all the other releases.
I would combine go go n sing HDH as one album...dropping the covers...
I would love include the Happening on reflections lp. Drop up up n away.
Instead of forever came today release going down for the third time.
Cancel...something's you never get...release Then from Reflections.
Cancel .living in shame..the composer..
Release ..I'll set you free and chains of love.
Try it baby instead of I'll try something new.
Cancel Let The Sunshine .
Cancel GIT..but a actual live set with both groups in concert.
Just thinking out loud

[WaitingWatchingLookingForAChance]

Totally get it. But we say these things from a 2000s sensibility. What's easily missed is that a 1960s sensibility may have been FAR different. So what seems questionable or even obvious today was not the status quo back then. Still, I have tons of my own ideas too of things I would have done differently [[like scrapping a good 50 1/2% of the Reflections tracks and 98 3/4 % of everything on the last 2 DRATS albums!)

[Ollie9]

Totally get it. But we say these things from a 2000s sensibility. What's easily missed is that a 1960s sensibility may have been FAR different. So what seems questionable or even obvious today was not the status quo back then. Still, I have tons of my own ideas too of things I would have done differently [[like scrapping a good 50 1/2% of the Reflections tracks and 98 3/4 % of everything on the last 2 DRATS albums!)

You took the words right out of my mouth. With hindsight our perspective is totally altered.
Totally agree with david on the Reflections album. With so many superior songs available, it could and should have been a much stronger album. Disagree regarding the Sam Cooke album. That’s a good one.

[TNSUN]

I would have made a movie based on Jackie Wilson's Life and staring Michael Jackson.

[TNSUN]

I also think that Berry Gordy should have helped Florence Ballard jumpstart her career.

[daviddh]

Did like the same cooke album but just to much in 1965.all those release hurt sales for more hits.imo

I do agree that BG should have helped flo but I feel her back story prevented that

[marybrewster]

All of the specialties albums were done in an effort to show the public that the Supremes had a broader appeal, which allowed them to get into Lincoln Center and the Copa. One might think that these were a misstep, but BG knew exactly what he was doing, and was brilliant for doing it.

[daviddh]

I would have combined let the sunshine n cream of the crop into one album

[daviddh]

Mary brewster.
Agreed. But I still feel to much all at one time.how many groups have five albums in one year.amazing.
I would have tweaked the country album as meet the ....and the There's. A Place for Us could have been tweaked to include a few sam cooke tracks such as Change Gonna Happen and You Send Me

[daviddh]

I like the reflections album ....side 1 is great but side 2 just falls short.
I think there are two good songs....Then and Misery Makes It's Home.
The new remix of What the world needs now redeems itself from Go Go

[mowsville]

Some good ideas there...I would have deffo kept the Sam Cooke album but would have had it recorded in Detroit with the Funk Brothers...same with Liverpool...Chains of love good choice for single...god knows what they were thinking with The Composer would have left that in the can and replaced it with Stormy...Discover Me as a possible single release.

[WaitingWatchingLookingForAChance]

I would have made a movie based on Jackie Wilson's Life and staring Michael Jackson.

Best. Laugh. Of. The. Week!

[WaitingWatchingLookingForAChance]

All of the specialties albums were done in an effort to show the public that the Supremes had a broader appeal, which allowed them to get into Lincoln Center and the Copa. One might think that these were a misstep, but BG knew exactly what he was doing, and was brilliant for doing it.

Yes. I feel strongly that this is what's being missed when folks look back. Berry knew what he was doing with these specialty albums. It was right for the times. For some reason, it also is forever overlooked that Motown was a comparatively very small fish in a HUGE pond and yet, they blew everyone away in big part because of their marketing savvy. Not sure why it seems to be a point of contention that there were many albums available. If The Supremes had failed, or had only attained the status of The Toys, The Chiffons, The Jelly Beans, The Honeys, The Angels, THEN I'd say there was a point to the criticism; but it doesn't seem those albums held The Supremes back, does it? When's the last time anyone spoke about The Angels Greatest Hits?

[WaitingWatchingLookingForAChance]

You took the words right out of my mouth. With hindsight our perspective is totally altered.
Totally agree with david on the Reflections album. With so many superior songs available, it could and should have been a much stronger album. Disagree regarding the Sam Cooke album. That’s a good one.

Thanks Ollie. I do the same thing a lot- I would have done this and that differently- but then I have to catch myself and realize my reasoning is divorced from whatever was in fashion back then. I do have to admit though, I am with everyone about swapping out the more horrifying album tracks with the better ones that were left in the can!

[captainjames]

I don't think with the Supremes as BG I would have done a lot of things different because it was the 60's and he had a lot of pressure from all ends. Crossover, pressure, broadway, females, hollywood, yeah I get it. The only thing I would have done and it's probably better for another discussion is that under no circumstances would I have lost the JACKSON 5.

[jobeterob]

Pretty hard to argue against issuing albums like a Little Bit of Liverpool when it sold 800000 copies; that sole album likely outsold the entire 70s Supremes output.

[TheMotownManiac]

If I were BG....I would have not released .
1.bit of liverpool.
2.sing country
3.we remember....
Instead I would have released There's a Place for Us in April 65
At the copa hi get pushed to April 66 .I would not release both copa n merry Christmas together
To much product.
I think more hits would have done far better without all the other releases.
I would combine go go n sing HDH as one album...dropping the covers...
I would love include the Happening on reflections lp. Drop up up n away.
Instead of forever came today release going down for the third time.
Cancel...something's you never get...release Then from Reflections.
Cancel .living in shame..the composer..
Release ..I'll set you free and chains of love.
Try it baby instead of I'll try something new.
Cancel Let The Sunshine .
Cancel GIT..but a actual live set with both groups in concert.
Just thinking out loud

some of those were huge sellers. The only album I’d scrap is funny girl.

I don’t think Then is a single that would get any radio play.
‘Try It Baby might have worked as a single but I would’ve used the TCP version of the impossible dream as the next single, then maybe try it baby and then why must we fall in love.

The composer and I’m living in shame were not exactly stellar works of art but it kept the groups name out there in many markets until They had something decent to release. There was nothing better to put out.

going down for the third time was already on a platinum album and a gold single. Supremes fans would not have purchased it, because they already had one or two versions of it. I think it would’ve been a big mistake to put it out at that time. I also think it was a mistake to use it as a B-side because as it turned out, It would’ve been a good A-side
side instead of in and out of love or forever came today.

somethings you never get used to might have done better if they articulated the lyrics in the chorus in the hook. No one to this day is certain what they’re singing and it’s a giant blemish on Ashford and Simpson to send a record out like that. And stupid of Motown. People do not buy a single that they can’t sing along to or understand the lyrics.. I think it would’ve been a top 20 record with a little fixing.

my favorite song from 1969 probably was the leading lady medley so I would not have canceled GIT. It did reasonably well. By comparison, the 70s Supremes only had one album that charted higher than GIT.

[marybrewster]

If I were BG I would have never let HDH walk out the door. 10 number 1 hits in 4 years? They were as essential to the Supremes as the Supremes themselves.

[jobeterob]

I wouldn’t have let HDH or the J5 go

All those Supremes albums should have been released - the Supremes were the hottest thing around, similar to the Beatles. They sold a lot - yes the quality of some like C W and pop was not great, but it far out performed many Motown albums in sales and chart position.

[Levi Stubbs Tears]

HDH was the main mistake.

I'm not sure just how they could have retained the J5. It's not as if Jermaine - who stayed - was rewarded for his loyalty with a string of hit songs.

[captainjames]

some of those were huge sellers. The only album I’d scrap is funny girl.

I don’t think Then is a single that would get any radio play.
‘Try It Baby might have worked as a single but I would’ve used the TCP version of the impossible dream as the next single, then maybe try it baby and then why must we fall in love.

The composer and I’m living in shame were not exactly stellar works of art but it kept the groups name out there in many markets until They had something decent to release. There was nothing better to put out.

going down for the third time was already on a platinum album and a gold single. Supremes fans would not have purchased it, because they already had one or two versions of it. I think it would’ve been a big mistake to put it out at that time. I also think it was a mistake to use it as a B-side because as it turned out, It would’ve been a good A-side
side instead of in and out of love or forever came today.

somethings you never get used to might have done better if they articulated the lyrics in the chorus in the hook. No one to this day is certain what they’re singing and it’s a giant blemish on Ashford and Simpson to send a record out like that. And stupid of Motown. People do not buy a single that they can’t sing along to or understand the lyrics.. I think it would’ve been a top 20 record with a little fixing.

my favorite song from 1969 probably was the leading lady medley so I would not have canceled GIT. It did reasonably well. By comparison, the 70s Supremes only had one album that charted higher than GIT.

ok that's funny and I am now embarrassed. I have been singing along to this record for years like I know what they are singing. I never knew fans were confused on this one.

[Ollie9]

Yes. I feel strongly that this is what's being missed when folks look back. Berry knew what he was doing with these specialty albums. It was right for the times. For some reason, it also is forever overlooked that Motown was a comparatively very small fish in a HUGE pond and yet, they blew everyone away in big part because of their marketing savvy. Not sure why it seems to be a point of contention that there were many albums available. If The Supremes had failed, or had only attained the status of The Toys, The Chiffons, The Jelly Beans, The Honeys, The Angels, THEN I'd say there was a point to the criticism; but it doesn't seem those albums held The Supremes back, does it? When's the last time anyone spoke about The Angels Greatest Hits?

Berry was a strategic marketing guy. He was spot on in expanding the groups appeal beyond pop and r&b. The speciality albums served a purpose.
As already mentioned, hindsight plays a huge part in influencing our perspective as to what might be considered a bad decision or a good idea. Had “Somethings” proved a runaway success, no one would be questioning the wisdom of its release today.
Speculation though can be fun, and l really like the the idea of “The Impossible Dream” as a single release. It contained all the right ingredients to make it a substantial hit.

[daviddh]

Mary brewster.agreed.letting HDH go.
Huge mistake.

[daviddh]

70s Supremes.
Great debut with Up The Ladder to the Roof and parent lp Right On.
I would have released Life Beats....as a single and possibly third song from RO..... wait ba minute before you leave me. Maybe.

Oct .river deep mountain high...
Jan 71. Stoned love
May Nathan jones
July here comes the sunrise
Oct touch with Mary on all lead.
Jan Floy Joy
May automatically
July ywssl
Oct.over and over
Jan when can brown begin
May bad weather.
Cancel jimmy webb.
Release promises kept.
July 74.It's all been said b4
Oct....sha la bandit
Jan... bend a little
May ...he's my man
July... where do we go from here
Oct...color my world blue
1976
Combine the last two albums
May...gonna let my heart
July.whats missing in my life
Oct.let yourself go
Dec. Sweet dream machine

[Motown Eddie]

"If I were B.G."; I would've only made one album [[not three) with The Supremes & The Four Tops. Also, wouldn't have released The Supremes Produced and Arranged by Jimmy Webb album nor "I Guess I'll Miss The Man" [[I feel that a project like that would have worked better for The 5th Dimension than it did for The Supremes).

[Motown Eddie]

Two more things: I would've called The Supremes' 2nd LP of the '70s Stoned Love instead of New Ways But Love Stays. And I would've released it a few months after [[or a few months before) The Magnificent Seven album with The Four Tops to avoid saturating the market.

[marybrewster]

Way too many Supremes/Tops albums in such a short period of time. The first one was a mild hit; after the second didn't do much, they definitely should have shelved the third.

[Bluebrock]

Way too many Supremes/Tops albums in such a short period of time. The first one was a mild hit; after the second didn't do much, they definitely should have shelved the third.
The simple truth is they were not very good. The first one was the best of a bad bunch.

[Bluebrock]

Two more things: I would've called The Supremes' 2nd LP of the '70s Stoned Love instead of New Ways But Love Stays. And I would've released it a few months after [[or a few months before) The Magnificent Seven album with The Four Tops to avoid saturating the market.
Agreed. They should have held the first duets album over until Stoned Love and the New Ways album had time to garner more sales. They could easily have got a 2nd hit from New Ways and then concentrate on the duets album prior to the release of Nathan Jones and the Touch album. Whatever where they thinking by releasing all this product in such a short space of time? Utter madness.

[sup_fan]

Agreed. They should have held the first duets album over until Stoned Love and the New Ways album had time to garner more sales. They could easily have got a 2nd hit from New Ways and then concentrate on the duets album prior to the release of Nathan Jones and the Touch album. Whatever where they thinking by releasing all this product in such a short space of time? Utter madness.

it's my belief that they were simply going for more sales, not chart rankings or artistic statements/merit

If 1 album can sell 500,000, what happens if they release 2 albums? sure that first album might drop in sales to 350,000 but the second album might sell 200 - 300,000 itself. and now you have TOTAL sales of nearly 600,000. that's more money

Especially as they were approaching the holiday season.

[sup_fan]

If I were BG....I would have not released .
1.bit of liverpool.
2.sing country
3.we remember....
Instead I would have released There's a Place for Us in April 65
At the copa hi get pushed to April 66 .I would not release both copa n merry Christmas together
To much product.
I think more hits would have done far better without all the other releases.
I would combine go go n sing HDH as one album...dropping the covers...
I would love include the Happening on reflections lp. Drop up up n away.
Instead of forever came today release going down for the third time.
Cancel...something's you never get...release Then from Reflections.
Cancel .living in shame..the composer..
Release ..I'll set you free and chains of love.
Try it baby instead of I'll try something new.
Cancel Let The Sunshine .
Cancel GIT..but a actual live set with both groups in concert.
Just thinking out loud

Liverpool charted at #21 and was on the charts for 21 weeks. that's an amazing feat for an album with no singles or hits on it.

CW&P was intended to follow in the footsteps of Ray Charles' masterpiece "Modern Sounds in Country & Western Music"

Sam Cooke was a very popular and famous singer at the time who was tragically murdered. big headline news

in fall of 64 the Supremes were truly becoming a phenomenon. they were literally EVERYWHERE. today we're so desensitized because we're all well aware of the Sups history and also today there's an endless parade of popular culture in our face every single second. but back then, this was really revolutionary. Black, beautiful, talented, popular.

Gordy's goal all along had been to make the jump from pop music to big time entertainment. he has stated he believed the path to do this was via a female star/act. it was his opinion that the general white public would be more accepting of black female artists and feel less threatened than if it was a male act. Certainly a racist and sexist POV but he was dealing with the times. he wanted to make money and get rich. this was what he felt was the route.

he was already amazed at Diana's and the Supremes' ability to sing to many things. once they finally hit, he wanted the world to see their versatility. this would help break them into bigger clubs and more sales

frankly i'd have liked to see the Tribute to the Girls set released. The reason There's A Place wasn't [[i'm guessing) is that most of the tracks were on the Copa album. and he wanted to definitely hype their HUGE success at one of the biggest and best US clubs.

[sup_fan]

If I were BG....I would have not released .
1.bit of liverpool.
2.sing country
3.we remember....
Instead I would have released There's a Place for Us in April 65
At the copa hi get pushed to April 66 .I would not release both copa n merry Christmas together
To much product.
I think more hits would have done far better without all the other releases.
I would combine go go n sing HDH as one album...dropping the covers...
I would love include the Happening on reflections lp. Drop up up n away.
Instead of forever came today release going down for the third time.
Cancel...something's you never get...release Then from Reflections.
Cancel .living in shame..the composer..
Release ..I'll set you free and chains of love.
Try it baby instead of I'll try something new.
Cancel Let The Sunshine .
Cancel GIT..but a actual live set with both groups in concert.
Just thinking out loud

it's hard to argue with the logic of the A Go Go release. yes it was mostly covers but it sold a huge amount and was the first #1 album by an all female group. as if you were a teen flipping through the record bin at the store, the cover and title would have definitely caught your eye. and then when you flipped it over to see what the songs were, you probably recognized nearly every single one. that's why it sold


i think looking back today on the choice of releases and albums, we'd prefer that the albums carry a bit more artistic credibility. the huge amount of cover songs [[some of which really sort of sucked) waters down the perception of these extremely talented girls. i do think this has been part of the reason the Supremes don't get the credit they're due and are sort of dismissed by the industry.

for the most part i'm ok with the releases through Reflections [[the single). I might make a few changes here and there but overall i'd stick with the actual. Starting with the Reflections album though, i think they need to have more care and attention to the song selection and lineup.

if you take all of the tracks [[originals and covers) from mid 67 - 69, you do have a LOT of really good material. you can even pretty much keep to the same release schedule but shuffling the songs around, dropping a few covers and replacing with better originals can help create much more cohesive albums.

[reese]

Liverpool charted at #21 and was on the charts for 21 weeks. that's an amazing feat for an album with no singles or hits on it.

CW&P was intended to follow in the footsteps of Ray Charles' masterpiece "Modern Sounds in Country & Western Music"

Sam Cooke was a very popular and famous singer at the time who was tragically murdered. big headline news



I know their peak positions, but do you know how long CW&P, Sam Cooke, and Rodgers and Hart stayed on the pop album chart?

On the R&B album chart, the country album didn't chart at all while the Sam Cooke tribute lasted 6 weeks. The Liverpool album lasted 5 weeks but I think that could be because the chart wasn't in existence until January 1965 so it missed all of its sales from the previous year. Also, the R&B chart album chart initially only listed 10 albums. R&H lasted a strong 18 weeks.

In his second Diana book, J. Randy quoted rather low sales totals for all of them but this info was missing from the next book.

[sup_fan]

why yes reese :) thanks to my handy Supremes Excel Worksheet i do! hehe

Liverpool peaked at #21 and was on the charts for 21 weeks

Country peaked at 79 and was only on for 8 weeks

Sam Cooke peaked at 75 and was on for 19 weeks

At the Copa peaked at 11 and was on for 54 weeks [[yes 54, that's not a typo lol)

Xmas wasn't ever on the Billboard pop charts so i don't know

R&H peaked at 20 and was on for 18 weeks

Funny Girl peaked at 150 and was on for 12 weeks


To compare to their big albums:

WDOLG peaked at 2 and was on for 89 weeks

More Hits peaked at 6 and was on for 37 weeks

A Go Go peaked at 1 and was on for 52 weeks

Greatest Hits peaked at 1 and was on for 89 weeks

Talk of the Town peaked at 57 and was on for 17 weeks

Love Child peaked at 14 and was on for 21 weeks

Join Temps peaked at 2 and was on for 32 weeks

Sunshine peaked at 24 and was on for 18 weeks

GH3 peaked at 31 and was on for 25 weeks

[sup_fan]

I know their peak positions, but do you know how long CW&P, Sam Cooke, and Rodgers and Hart stayed on the pop album chart?

On the R&B album chart, the country album didn't chart at all while the Sam Cooke tribute lasted 6 weeks. The Liverpool album lasted 5 weeks but I think that could be because the chart wasn't in existence until January 1965 so it missed all of its sales from the previous year. Also, the R&B chart album chart initially only listed 10 albums. R&H lasted a strong 18 weeks.

In his second Diana book, J. Randy quoted rather low sales totals for all of them but this info was missing from the next book.

again the strategy was to create this image of the Supremes being mature, sophisticated entertainers rather than simply rock 'n roll girls. black parents would also have been quite proud of the group and what it represented. the Supremes were a credit to the whole black community. so just like the kids would have wanted to support the group and get More Hits, the parents would have been proud of have the Sam Cooke album included in their collection of Sarah Vaugh and Dinah Washington albums and playing of their huge hifi console in the living room lol

the concept albums were never really intended to have the sales volume of the "regular" albums. i'd guess they more than broke even though. Let's face it - lolol. i don't think tons of studio time or musician costs were invested in the CW or Liverpool sets lol. i think they could have been better if more attention and care were applied to the recordings. just like they were applied to R&H and Funny Girl.

[reese]

why yes reese :) thanks to my handy Supremes Excel Worksheet i do! hehe

Liverpool peaked at #21 and was on the charts for 21 weeks

Country peaked at 79 and was only on for 8 weeks

Sam Cooke peaked at 75 and was on for 19 weeks

At the Copa peaked at 11 and was on for 54 weeks [[yes 54, that's not a typo lol)

Xmas wasn't ever on the Billboard pop charts so i don't know

R&H peaked at 20 and was on for 18 weeks

Funny Girl peaked at 150 and was on for 12 weeks


To compare to their big albums:

WDOLG peaked at 2 and was on for 89 weeks

More Hits peaked at 6 and was on for 37 weeks

A Go Go peaked at 1 and was on for 52 weeks

Greatest Hits peaked at 1 and was on for 89 weeks

Talk of the Town peaked at 57 and was on for 17 weeks

Love Child peaked at 14 and was on for 21 weeks

Join Temps peaked at 2 and was on for 32 weeks

Sunshine peaked at 24 and was on for 18 weeks

GH3 peaked at 31 and was on for 25 weeks

Thanks for the info.

I believe Xmas singles and albums were put on their own special chart back then so the girls' Xmas album never charted pop.

It would be interesting to know how high their Xmas recordings might have charted if they had been recorded for the pop chart. Considering the recordings charted for at least three consecutive years [[I think), I would assume they might have done very well.

[sup_fan]

by all accounts, the album did incredibly well. i'm sure motown would repeatedly release it each year. certainly through the 60s they would have continued to press copies for sale. maybe the 70s saw a clear drop in sales but then when the cassette and cd boom hit in the 80s, it saw more

also what i found interesting was how long Copa was on! i knew it did well but was really surprised at its chart run. I don't know the exact sales or how chart rank/run equates to sales. but since it both charted high and ran long, it must have sold a ton of copies. I'm guessing here but it could have potentially outsold Symphony or More Hits. while it didn't chart as high, it ran longer.

[marybrewster]

In regards to covers, do you think that the reason the Supremes, and Motown artists in general, recorded so many covers of each others hits, was so that the writers and producers could take from the cookie jar?

You've got three 4 Tops covers, which were hits on the Four Tops album, the Four Tops Second album, and the On Top album. HDH made a few bucks off those LPS. Then A Go Go comes out, and HDH makes a few more bucks off the same songs.

[sup_fan]

In regards to covers, do you think that the reason the Supremes, and Motown artists in general, recorded so many covers of each others hits, was so that the writers and producers could take from the cookie jar?

You've got three 4 Tops covers, which were hits on the Four Tops album, the Four Tops Second album, and the On Top album. HDH made a few bucks off those LPS. Then A Go Go comes out, and HDH makes a few more bucks off the same songs.

absolutely. even if it wasn't the original producer. like how Frank Wilson did the cover on This Old Heart of Mine on A Go Go. it all went back to Jobete. so there was certainly an internal emphasis on using the extensive Motown catalog for covers.

A Go Go clearly sold over a million copies in its initial release. 10 of the 12 songs were motown songs so all of that money stayed within the walls of motown. why pay it to other outside sources if you don't have to. and the motown catalog was so large and popular.

[reese]

absolutely. even if it wasn't the original producer. like how Frank Wilson did the cover on This Old Heart of Mine on A Go Go. it all went back to Jobete. so there was certainly an internal emphasis on using the extensive Motown catalog for covers.

A Go Go clearly sold over a million copies in its initial release. 10 of the 12 songs were motown songs so all of that money stayed within the walls of motown. why pay it to other outside sources if you don't have to. and the motown catalog was so large and popular.

Motown certainly did more than its share of in-house covers. But they certainly did a lot of covers of outside material as well. Look at the Vandellas' HEAT WAVE album on which there is only one Jobete selection. Or the Marvelettes' covers of MESSAGE TO MICHAEL. And of course, the Supremes did covers of such hits as ODE TO BILLIE JOE, WHAT THE WORLD NEEDS NOW, A LOVER'S CONCERTO and too many more to name.

But that was the way the record business was back then on most labels. I gather it was seen as an attention-getter and potential sales enticement if an act did a cover of a recent hit, whatever the source. If you look at most of Aretha's big Atlantic albums, there are as many covers as originals, if not more.

[Motown Eddie]

it's my belief that they were simply going for more sales, not chart rankings or artistic statements/merit

If 1 album can sell 500,000, what happens if they release 2 albums? sure that first album might drop in sales to 350,000 but the second album might sell 200 - 300,000 itself. and now you have TOTAL sales of nearly 600,000. that's more money

Especially as they were approaching the holiday season.

The only way Motown was going to get more sales by releasing more albums by The Supremes & The Four Tops was if those albums had generated major hits. Only The Magnificent Seven had a hit single with "River Deep Mountain High" while the other two LPs didn't have any.

[sup_fan]

Mag 7 didn't chart high but it was on the charts quite a while - 16 weeks. and of course i just made up those numbers as an example of how they might have been thinking. i would guess that their sales dept assumed that total volume moved from 2 albums would be better.

Also Mag 7 charted quite well in the UK. i don't have all the chart history data but it peaked at #6 over there! so maybe the real goal of the 2 subsequent albums was to drive international sales.

my opinion is that Dynamite was released solely to have some sort of new album release on these two for the holidays. it was released in Dec 71. clearly no thought was put into the cover art. i don't think either group had another current album to release at that time. Touch came out back in June and the Tops reissued Now as the MacArthur Park lp. but that hardly was much either. So let's throw together 1 quick album that benefits from 2 big-name groups. at least they could get some sort of product out for the holiday sales

[sup_fan]

If I were BG....
Instead of forever came today release going down for the third time.
Cancel...something's you never get...release Then from Reflections.
Cancel .living in shame..the composer..
Release ..I'll set you free and chains of love.
Try it baby instead of I'll try something new.
Cancel Let The Sunshine .
Cancel GIT..but a actual live set with both groups in concert.
Just thinking out loud

here are my thoughts on the possible single releases:

Reflections

In and out - not a fav but it was a contemporary "Sunshine pop" sound. by late 1967 and after such an innovative single as Reflections, i think Going Down 3rd Time wouldn't have been really any more successful than In and Out. it's a great song but it was recorded in mid 1966 and just had an "older" motown sound. since then you had had great new things like You Keep Me Hanging, Love is here, reach out, bernadette, reflections. all of these songs were so innovative and new and fresh. 3rd Time just seems a bit dated after all these. yes it's a great tune and it would have done fine. but In and Out went to #9. i don't see 3rd doing any better

Some Things and Forever - i don't like Then really, i do agree it's a much better track. i think Can't Shake It Loose is a good option. I Can't Make It Alone might have worked too. it's got some of the psychedelic feeling of Reflections. neither Share it loose or I Can't would have gone to #1. they might have squeezed into the Top 10. def top 20 so better than Forever or Some.

as the follow up to Love Child, i think they should have done How Long Is Evening Train. it's dark, dramatic like LC but doesn't try to copy. or get back to more a traditional motown sound and do I'll Set You free.

Discover Me was a strong song too. certainly better than Composer.

You're Gonna Hear from me - this is an interesting song. the intro is a bit odd and it takes a while to really get going. but the second half of the tune really is solid. amazing it wasn't even included on an album!

The Weight - skip and release Why Must We Fall In Love

[daviddh]

The Supremes Christmas album reached # 4 on the holiday charts in 1965 and I think went on to see 6 million copies over the years.
Last year I didn't hear slot of Motown Christmas on radio

[daviddh]

After thought together we can make sweet music....time to break down ...
Both could be singles in my opinion.
Good to read everyone's thoughts.
Agreed .one lp with the tops was enough.
A few gems came out on the deluxe edtion

[sup_fan]

After thought together we can make sweet music....time to break down ...
Both could be singles in my opinion.
Good to read everyone's thoughts.
Agreed .one lp with the tops was enough.
A few gems came out on the deluxe edtion

on FB there was a discussion recently on Time To Break Down. i shared this thought there too

TTBD is a great song and an amazing new sound for the girls. but i'm not sure if it was single material or radio friendly. aside from the time duration, the problem i see is there isn't really much singing. much of what makes the song great is all the guitar work and the instrumental portions. that would most likely need to be edited down or out to make the song fit a single's run time. and then you've lost the power of the song.

I don't know how much radio was really playing lp cuts at this time. I know some of the new FM rock channels would. But that's not where the Sups were aimed at.

[Bluebrock]

on FB there was a discussion recently on Time To Break Down. i shared this thought there too

TTBD is a great song and an amazing new sound for the girls. but i'm not sure if it was single material or radio friendly. aside from the time duration, the problem i see is there isn't really much singing. much of what makes the song great is all the guitar work and the instrumental portions. that would most likely need to be edited down or out to make the song fit a single's run time. and then you've lost the power of the song.

I don't know how much radio was really playing lp cuts at this time. I know some of the new FM rock channels would. But that's not where the Sups were aimed at.
It's my favorite track from the album Stoned Love aside, but i am not sure it is suitable to be edited as a single. As you rightly point out it is the instrumental portions that make the song stand out.
The song would have to be radically reworked to make it radio friendly which would probably ruin it's beauty. Great song though, and probably ahead of it's time.

[sup_fan]

TTBD and DL also really represent a challenge for the Sups. Ladder is a stunning song and single. And the live version does it justice.

TTBD and SL are amazing recordings. SL does ok with the live versions but i think we all agree the majesty is lost. and TTBD on Flip IMO struggles. you can easily add NJ to this list too

I wonder if that played a part in the struggles of the 70s supremes. some of their biggest hits and best songs were really studio creations. singing them on tv at least allows you to either lip sync or sing live to a pre recorded track. But at a concert, you can't do that. and i wonder if that's where some of the shine started to fade. the live versions didn't register with the audience and they didn't go seek out the albums and singles as a result

[daviddh]

Just wonder if that was the workings of Motown trying to keep the ladies in a certain format and not let them grow..
That whole nonsense of them still singing your nobody till somebody loves you.
I would have changed the entire live show dropping the standards or most of

[PeaceNHarmony]

Just wonder if that was the workings of Motown trying to keep the ladies in a certain format and not let them grow..
That whole nonsense of them still singing your nobody till somebody loves you.
I would have changed the entire live show dropping the standards or most ofI think it's largely established that between Jean's diffidence followed by Mary's malcontentedness the label big-wigs were unanimous in the decision to not put further cash investment into the group, so new musical arrangements were not considered. That's just what I recall reading; I wasn't there to confirm :)

[daviddh]

May be true.
After thought.
Together we can make such sweet music should have been a single with a B side single mix for time to break down

[marybrewster]

When Jean joined, all of the standards should have been dropped. That was Diana's schtick.

[daviddh]

Mary.
Totally agreed. It was old by 1970

[sup_fan]

When Jean joined, all of the standards should have been dropped. That was Diana's schtick.

yes and no. JMC continued to have a contract with Frontier in Vegas. they also continued to play top supper clubs like the Palmer House and Fairmont chain. in those establishments, their cabaret act worked.

what they should have done is develop a second show structure for more of the younger audience. those old supper clubs were on their way out by the mid 70s. so the girls should have been working to re-establish themselves with the younger audiences. like the Temps did.

their tv appearances too should have evolved from the giggly glamour girls