Sorry Doesn't Always Make It Right - a discussion

[sup_fan]

thoughts on this single? like the What You Gave Me thread that Ran started, this song isn't discussed much, either within other threads or as a topic on its own. The first DR single to not chart at all. But it's a Michael Masser tune and he'd had quite a bit of luck prior. Touch Me and Last Time. plus an array of album track

[reese]

I think it is a good song. Diana gave a nice performance and I can't really say anything bad about the production. But I don't think it was special enough to release as a single, especially a single that wasn't going to be promoted. And especially coming after the flop SLEEPIN'.

I mean, I know she was busy with MAHOGANY and was also pregnant. But still, there had to be better songs in the vault that could have been released to tide her over until MAHOGANY was released. For example, they could have pulled out KEWPIE DOLL and promoted it as a Smokey production.

[RanRan79]

Nice song, but horrible idea for a single. Absolutely horrendous. "Last Time"'s country feel was balanced with the bouncy, Dixieland band sound. It made it a bit novelty, but Diana gives it everything and so it makes sense that it was a nice hit for her. I feel like they tried to follow it up with another country tinged cut and it fell flat. I love country music, so the overall song doesn't bother me a bit. It's quite nice, actually. But the public wasn't going to buy another Diana country cut, especially one that sounds so boring in comparison to anything else going on in the radio world of the time.

If the goal was to have a Diana product out that early in 1975, I might have attempted to squeeze out one last hurrah from the Last Time album, by either releasing "I Heard a Love Song" [[my fav) or "Stone Liberty", both of which I think not only had a better chance than "Sorry", but sounded more hip and may have captured the public's attention enough to garner her at least another top 20 hit, if not top 10.

[sup_fan]

i agree it's not very special. and i had forgotten it was the f/up to Sleepin' two duds in a row.

I do really like Last Time. the fun dixieland band and all. i think it frankly could have charted a bit higher. certainly isn't a #1 but could have gone up a few more slots. But i also think this song could have been held for a while. Touch me in the morning was stunning and they should have used another track from that album as the f/up

you then, basically, have several subsequent sets of material

To The Baby [[although some tracks had been used for TMITM)
Marvin duets
Michael Masser productions - Last Time, Sorry, No one's gonna be, together, to love again
Ron Miller productions - where did we go wrong, get it all together, sleepin, we're always saying goodbye

I do like the Bob Gaudio material but there are only those few songs and they don't really fit with the work the others were doing.

So in May 73, Touch Me In the Morning is a single release and the album comes out in june. the single peaks in late summer so a fall 73 release of some other TMITM track would have worked great.

then since she and Marvin were both hot at the time [[his Let's Get It On smash) you release the duet album in early 74 and do 2 singles from it. that now gets you through to fall of 74

now you combine the Masser and Miller work [[which fits together beautifully IMO). a late fall 74 release of a revised LTISH album which would feature:

Last time
Together
No one's gonna be a fool
Sleepin
You

Sorry
get it all together
To love again
Where did we go wrong
we're always saying goodbye

Last time is a single release in late summer and then the album follows in fall.

To love again, where did we go wrong, get it all together could all have been a 2nd or 3rd single release as we move into 75. Then Theme from Mahogany gets released in Sept 75

[RanRan79]

As a fan, and of course I'm coming from hindsight since this was before my time, but after Lady Sings and then TMITM, I would be ready for Diana to move into something else. Right around 1974 is when music started to get a little funky, get it's groove back. A lot of that Masser/Miller stuff is just too easy listening. Works for a single every now and then, and one whole album, but not two in a row, IMO. My revised LTISH tracklist:

Last Time I Saw Him
I'll Be Here When You Get Home
Why Play Games
Sleepin
Get It All Together
Let Me Be the One
When Will I Come Home to You
I Heard a Love Song
Stone Liberty
Behind Closed Doors

The Mahogany soundtrack should've been a complete Diana Ross album. Whole single artist soundtracks were all the rage then. Why Motown didn't capitalize off of this is mind boggling. I would've had "To Love Again", "We're Always Saying Goodbye", "Together", of course "Do You Know" and "After You" on the soundtrack, along with Diana vocals to some of those outstanding instrumentals.

[sup_fan]

i think the duet album helped to shift things around a bit after TMITM and Lady. and the Mahogany songs are all definitely easy listening. i actually don't mind the soundtrack being more instrumental and saving the tunes for DR 76. While Smile is rather out of place on that album, i like the rest of the tunes. even Kiss Me Now

[reese]

I actually remember someone writing into RIGHT ON! magazine and asking when Diana would have a new record out. They responded that she currently had out a country song called "Sorry Doesn't Always Make It Right." I remember thinking that would be cool but I never heard it on the radio and soon forgot about it.

In 1977, I saw Diana in concert for the first time. In the concert program, the discography mentioned SDAMIR and it peaked my interest in this single that wasn't on any album that I knew of. When they finally released it on ROSS [[1978), I finally got a chance to hear it and as I said earlier, it was nice. It just didn't knock me out.

[reese]

The Mahogany soundtrack should've been a complete Diana Ross album. Whole single artist soundtracks were all the rage then. Why Motown didn't capitalize off of this is mind boggling. I would've had "To Love Again", "We're Always Saying Goodbye", "Together", of course "Do You Know" and "After You" on the soundtrack, along with Diana vocals to some of those outstanding instrumentals.[/COLOR]

My cousin bought me the MAHOGANY soundtrack for Christmas that year because he knew I loved Diana. While I was happy, I was slightly disappointed that there was only Diana vocal on it.

Of course now in hindsight, I get that Motown was probably trying to reinforce the idea of Diana as an actress. And just like Columbia released two THE WAY WE WERE albums: one an official soundtrack and the other, a new Streisand studio album with the theme song, Motown ended up doing the same double-dip with Diana and MAHOGANY.

[midnightman]

It's okay [[not as majestic as the original by Marvin and Tammi) but I agree, should've remained an album cut.

[daviddh]

I like the song but not as a single.
Wasn't this an outtake from the black album .

[copley]

"Sorry Doesn't Always Make It Right" reached #23 in the UK in '75. It's one of my very favourite singles. Gladys Knight & The Pips also do a great version.

[RanRan79]

i think the duet album helped to shift things around a bit after TMITM and Lady. and the Mahogany songs are all definitely easy listening. i actually don't mind the soundtrack being more instrumental and saving the tunes for DR 76. While Smile is rather out of place on that album, i like the rest of the tunes. even Kiss Me Now

I actually kind of like "Kiss Me Now" too. Diana76 was a step in the right direction. I would've loved for her to kick her vocals into another notch on some of the more uptempo songs. But I could see the album competing with the product around it. "Smile" was ridiculously out of place, as good a song as it is. "Smile" on this album is even more out of place than "Time And Love" is on Touch.

[RanRan79]

My cousin bought me the MAHOGANY soundtrack for Christmas that year because he knew I loved Diana. While I was happy, I was slightly disappointed that there was only Diana vocal on it.

Of course now in hindsight, I get that Motown was probably trying to reinforce the idea of Diana as an actress. And just like Columbia released two THE WAY WE WERE albums: one an official soundtrack and the other, a new Streisand studio album with the theme song, Motown ended up doing the same double-dip with Diana and MAHOGANY.

Explaining it like this, I guess I can see where Motown may have been coming from. But I too was disappointed when I found the soundtrack at a used record store around 2003 or 2004. I saw the soundtrack listed in all her discographies as a Diana Ross album, so I assumed it would be chocked full of Diana. I was actually a bit pissed to discover this was not the case.

[sup_fan]

i do enjoy though some of the instrumentals. Mahogany Suite is beautiful as is the instrumental version of After All

[lucky2012]

I actually kind of like "Kiss Me Now" too. Diana76 was a step in the right direction. I would've loved for her to kick her vocals into another notch on some of the more uptempo songs. But I could see the album competing with the product around it. "Smile" was ridiculously out of place, as good a song as it is. "Smile" on this album is even more out of place than "Time And Love" is on Touch.

I think the album is perfect as it is. It is wonderfully eclectic. I really like Kiss Me Now and I really love Smile. I'm glad it was included on the album and not left in the vaults. Like Theme from Mahogany it is a movie/film song [[written for Charlie Chaplin's 1936 film Modern Times). I think it perfectly capped and reiterated the album's themes and tones.

[lucky2012]

i do enjoy though some of the instrumentals. Mahogany Suite is beautiful as is the instrumental version of After All

I, too, was disappointed by the one Diana Ross vocal, but I grew to love and appreciate Michael Masser's beautiful compositions and production.

[Circa 1824]

Sorry Doesn’t Always Make it Right is a bore. A real stinker. Whoever released it as a single should have lost his job.

[Ollie9]

i do enjoy though some of the instrumentals. Mahogany Suite is beautiful as is the instrumental version of After All

The soundtrack to Mahogany really does contains some beautiful instrumentals. I find the album relaxing, but also uplifting at the same time. The packaging was clean and classy.
It’s one I still play from time to time.
I think Sorry Doesn’t Always Make It Right a lovely song. Dianas interpretation is spot on with her voice sounding warm and inviting. It was a minor hit in the UK that should have done better. I think of it as a Diana classic. Not so fond of the remix on Ross. For me it’s the single version all the way.

[sup_fan]

Sorry Doesn’t Always Make it Right is a bore. A real stinker. Whoever released it as a single should have lost his job.

yeah it's not a fav of mine. i find the harmonica is bit too much. Diana's lead vocal is also too laid back. Which for a country song i guess is fine. but she had so much more passion in her other "soap opera pop/soul" songs.

[Ollie9]

"Sorry Doesn't Always Make It Right" reached #23 in the UK in '75. It's one of my very favourite singles. Gladys Knight & The Pips also do a great version.

I also really like Gladys & The Pips version.Its more soulful [[of course) but for me Diana has the edge. There is also a wonderful version of “All The Time” from the same album.

[Boogiedown]

Twenty posts in an nobody posts the song in question !!:rolleyes:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vxz4DZP2EQw

I don't know why I was expecting something a little more Elton. I guess because of this :

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c3nScN89Klo

The Diana song is some pretty decent country. Shoulda really gone for it with some slide guitar. [[added: actually there is some slide in there , should have amped it up) Did it chart at all country? If not, too bad....


Doing some research , how is it no country artist covered this?


The way Diana enters the song is off-putting, probably stopped some programmers in their tracks from listening any further. Get past it and its all uphill from there . imo.

[Ollie9]

A masterclass vocal from M’s Ross. The first two lines always reminds me of “Over The Rainbow”. :cool:

[TheMotownManiac]

Great topic!

i adore this record. It’s perfect, but like someone previously mentioned there’s no way this was going to hit just being thrown out as a Johnny come lately follow up to The Floppppola Sleepin” Stooooopidest release schedule I’ve ever seen and do I see red when other label mates complained that Diana was getting all the promotion and all the attention….doc they couldn’t even get a top 10 record off of Diana and Marvin which came out when both acts had never ever been bigger. Don’t complain to me about bad weather or I wish I were your mirror, when they couldn’t even get a hit Off Diane n Marvin - don’t get me started.

anyway, I think the production on the original 45 is outstanding, her vocal is a Master class for interpreting lyrics, and I give them all the credit in the world for creating a fabulous country record knowing it would probably never go anywhere. One of my all-time favorite Motown 45s.

I do believe that this record could have hit big but it would either have to be released under a pseudonym or have a big part of a one time country tinged project that she was doing. Last time I saw him was quite popular and sold a lot better than it’s a billboard positioning would indicate because it did not get as much AirPlay… understandably. If last time I saw him had been promoted on TV, and become a bigger main stream pop hit as well as hitting the country chart, sorry could have, with care, hit Big.

[JohnnyB]

Great topic!

i adore this record. It’s perfect, but like someone previously mentioned there’s no way this was going to hit just being thrown out as a Johnny come lately follow up to The Floppppola Sleepin” Stooooopidest release schedule I’ve ever seen and do I see red when other label mates complained that Diana was getting all the promotion and all the attention….doc they couldn’t even get a top 10 record off of Diana and Marvin which came out when both acts had never ever been bigger. Don’t complain to me about bad weather or I wish I were your mirror, when they couldn’t even get a hit Off Diane n Marvin - don’t get me started.

anyway, I think the production on the original 45 is outstanding, her vocal is a Master class for interpreting lyrics, and I give them all the credit in the world for creating a fabulous country record knowing it would probably never go anywhere. One of my all-time favorite Motown 45s.

I do believe that this record could have hit big but it would either have to be released under a pseudonym or have a big part of a one time country tinged project that she was doing. Last time I saw him was quite popular and sold a lot better than it’s a billboard positioning would indicate because it did not get as much AirPlay… understandably. If last time I saw him had been promoted on TV, and become a bigger main stream pop hit as well as hitting the country chart, sorry could have, with care, hit Big.

Maniac, on which of Diana’s CD’s can I find the single mix of this song? I’d like to compare the Ross LP mix to the original.

This has never been a favorite of mine, but I intend to give it another listen after reading these comments...

[TheMotownManiac]

Maniac, on which of Diana’s CD’s can I find the single mix of this song? I’d like to compare the Ross LP mix to the original.

This has never been a favorite of mine, but I intend to give it another listen after reading these comments...

hey, I admit to being horrified when I first heard it. It was Michael Nasser and I had visions of Touch Me in the morning dancing in my head......I hope you like it. It’s on the Motown anthology

[TheMotownManiac]

Maniac, on which of Diana’s CD’s can I find the single mix of this song? I’d like to compare the Ross LP mix to the original.

This has never been a favorite of mine, but I intend to give it another listen after reading these comments...

turn off your phone, turn off the lights, close your eyes for three minutes and 36 seconds......I hope you like it, I respect your Ross cred

https://youtu.be/Vxz4DZP2EQw

[RanRan79]

Okay Maniac, I never paid attention to the single version before. I gotta say I kind of see where you're coming from. I think had the track had more of a country/soul feel to it, it may have had a better chance. The track is just too country, although the pop feel is squeezing through. I just think a second country type single would've given folks the impression Ross is going Country and they would've laughed and passed, no matter how good the song was. Remix this track and I think it may have done something. Just my thoughts.

[Ollie9]

If the goal was to have a Diana product out that early in 1975, I might have attempted to squeeze out one last hurrah from the Last Time album, by either releasing "I Heard a Love Song" [[my fav) or "Stone Liberty", both of which I think not only had a better chance than "Sorry", but sounded more hip and may have captured the public's attention enough to garner her at least another top 20 hit, if not top 10.

Its always interesting to read how diverse fans likes and dislikes can be. I myself have always found “Stone Liberty” a tad’ monotonous if not utterly depressing. Had it been released as a single, i think it’s fate would have been pretty similar to that of the imo far superior Sleepin’.
By 1975, Nothing on the LTISH album was imo worthy of a single release. If forced to pick, i would probably have gone with “Part Of You” which along with “Kewpie Doll” should definitely have been included on the LTISH set.

[daviddh]

I do like Part of You and Kewpie doll.
How they were canned is beyond me.
I think Motown was confused.

[daviddh]

I think Sorry us a lovely Ross vocal.
would have fit better on LTISH.
I would have released Blue in 75

[RanRan79]

Its always interesting to read how diverse fans likes and dislikes can be. I myself have always found “Stone Liberty” a tad’ monotonous if not utterly depressing. Had it been released as a single, i think it’s fate would have been pretty similar to that of the imo far superior Sleepin’.
By 1975, Nothing on the LTISH album was imo worthy of a single release. If forced to pick, i would probably have gone with “Part Of You” which along with “Kewpie Doll” should definitely have been included on the LTISH set.

I love that our likes and dislikes are so varied Ollie. If the entire discussion is everyone saying "I agree", the conversation quickly becomes boring. Between "Love Song" and "Liberty", IMO "I Heard A Love Song" is the superior cut. Diana kills that vocal. It's my fav song on the entire album. "Stone Liberty" took some years to grow on me. At first listen I thought it was okay, but nothing I would make a point to play. As the years went on the song has become more of a fav. I think the song, had it been released as a single in 74/75, would have resonated with women who could relate to the lyrics and were always looking for a song that speaks to their experience of hard living. Plus that track is funky, which would've attracted the people who might otherwise not identify with the lyrical content.

I LOVE "Sleepin", but only as an album track, not a single. I think what did "Sleepin" in was the melodramatic tone of it all. It's really dreary, the subject matter is even more depressing than that of "Stone Liberty".

There's no way I would pull out 1972 cuts for a 1975 release. There's no scenario I would've released "Part Of You" as a single, but "Kewpie Doll" should have been a single, regardless to whether the Smokey produced project fell through or not. I would've definitely followed "Touch Me In the Morning" with "Kewpie Doll". Serious missed opportunity.

[RanRan79]

I think Sorry us a lovely Ross vocal.
would have fit better on LTISH.
I would have released Blue in 75

Yeah, it would've worked on LTISH. No, no, no to releasing Blue in 1975. Bad David! Bad, bad, bad David!:p Seriously, the Diana singing jazz and blues became so overdone. She did so much of that as a Supreme and then her early solo work with Lady Sings became a huge chunk of what she was doing. As a Diana fan I love pretty much all the facets of her artistry: soul, pop, country, jazz, blues, MOR, and so forth. But if you wanna know the truth, my favorite Diana is soulful Diana, funky Diana, Diana with a pop flair.

With that being said, the Blue collection is some of her best work, period.

[Ollie9]

I love that our likes and dislikes are so varied Ollie. If the entire discussion is everyone saying "I agree", the conversation quickly becomes boring. Between "Love Song" and "Liberty", IMO "I Heard A Love Song" is the superior cut. Diana kills that vocal. It's my fav song on the entire album. "Stone Liberty" took some years to grow on me. At first listen I thought it was okay, but nothing I would make a point to play. As the years went on the song has become more of a fav. I think the song, had it been released as a single in 74/75, would have resonated with women who could relate to the lyrics and were always looking for a song that speaks to their experience of hard living. Plus that track is funky, which would've attracted the people who might otherwise not identify with the lyrical content.

I LOVE "Sleepin", but only as an album track, not a single. I think what did "Sleepin" in was the melodramatic tone of it all. It's really dreary, the subject matter is even more depressing than that of "Stone Liberty".

There's no way I would pull out 1972 cuts for a 1975 release. There's no scenario I would've released "Part Of You" as a single, but "Kewpie Doll" should have been a single, regardless to whether the Smokey produced project fell through or not. I would've definitely followed "Touch Me In the Morning" with "Kewpie Doll". Serious missed opportunity.

It would most certainly have made a welcome addition to the LTISH album, but i don’t think “Kewpie Doll” was a strong enough song to become a hit single. Perhaps a solid remix of “I Heard A Love Song” might have seen some chart action. Musically, 1975 was very much a transition period.

[JohnnyB]

turn off your phone, turn off the lights, close your eyes for three minutes and 36 seconds......I hope you like it, I respect your Ross cred

https://youtu.be/Vxz4DZP2EQw

I took your advice and I get it now; beautiful song and performance!

[jim aka jtigre99]

I have to say it is a very nice song, but not one of my favorites. I think it should have been an album cut but not a single. I know at the time that country music was gaining popularity, just like disco was. Last Time I Saw Him was a perfect fusion of a country sound with what Diana Ross was noted for. Sorry Doesn't Always make it right seemed too slow to catch the ears of the mass public. I was never a fan of Sleepin' either and liked it as an album cut but not so much as a single. I would have preferred Stone Liberty, which I always liked. I also thought it strange they waited from 1975 until 1978's Ross to put it on an album. It did hit #17 Adult Contemporary when released. Another thought, back in 1978 hearing that on Ross and then Jean Terrell's 1978 title track was also a slow country-tinged song I Had To Fall In Love. I liked all of these, just not sure if they were right for single releases. Guess that Motown was thinking about the country market, because I do remember some country artists on their labels at that time, too.

[TheMotownManiac]

I took your advice and I get it now; beautiful song and performance!
I’m so glad you liked it, JBFJ!

[Ollie9]

Diana’s voice is so incredibly versatile that I think she could have recorded a whole country album with consummate ease. Might have proved very interesting indeed.

[sup_fan]

there had been quite a few attempts at soul/country. the best was obviously Ray Charles masterwork. I believe the trick there was that he never lost "ray charles" in the music. he respected the original but added elements to make it his own.

Sup CW&P was a mixed bag, to say the least. the 3 part harmony is excellent and there are some moments of greatness - Funny and Makes No Difference. But there's way too much bland material. Not to mention the Banjo song lolol

Then you have Martha doing country soul in the late 60s. Her personality fit her songs quite well IMO. With Martha you got a sense of her earthiness and 'down home' appeal. some of the songs were a bit corny but the whole Ridin High album could have been reformulated into a soul/country piece. Similar to how the Temps were doing psychedelic soul

I think the drama and melodic approaches of country could have worked for Diana. but she needed to make it her own. weepy steel guitars and harmonics IMO are not "Diana Ross." just like Martha was doing a soulful, earthy country, Diana could have been doing a soulful glamorous country.

[Ollie9]

Everything in hindsight, but what a massive mistake Diana made in rejecting “Islands In The Stream” as a duet for her and Barry Gibb.
Instead of Ross 83, it might have proved lucrative had she recorded a country tinged album with BG at the helm. A couple more duets might have been added, perhaps with Dolly, Kenny or even Lionel Ritchie. A remake of “Sorry Doesn't Always Make It Right” might have proved fun. It would most certainly have guaranteed her plenty of media attention, and at that point in time Diana was up for taking risks. So why not.
“Up Front” was most definitely a direction she should not have been heading in.

[Bluebrock]

Agreed Ollie. She did later admit it was a mistake to turn down the songs that formed an album for Kenny Rogers. She did record a song called Eyes that see in the dark during the Eaten Alive sessions, but it remains in the vaults. Kenny included it on his album, and that album was very good, and it is all the more frustrating when you know that Diana could have had a hit with it as the follow up to Islands in the stream. I wish i had been her manager during this period. She really did not know how to manage her own career, but she sure as hell was good at being a business woman, and that was her priority at that particular time in her life.

[Ollie9]

Agreed Ollie. She did later admit it was a mistake to turn down the songs that formed an album for Kenny Rogers. She did record a song called Eyes that see in the dark during the Eaten Alive sessions, but it remains in the vaults. Kenny included it on his album, and that album was very good, and it is all the more frustrating when you know that Diana could have had a hit with it as the follow up to Islands in the stream. I wish i had been her manager during this period. She really did not know how to manage her own career, but she sure as hell was good at being a business woman, and that was her priority at that particular time in her life.

I checked out Kenny’s “Eyes That See In The Dark” and it’s a really nice song. I wonder why it was not included on the EA album?.
Was it Diana herself that blocked any unreleased songs being used on the expanded RCA albums Bluebrock?. If so it’s hard to understand why.
Regarding “Islands In The Stream”, a duet featuring Kenny as opposed to Baz would have been a much better idea . While his voice worked well with Babs, being so nasal it’s not such a great match up for Diana. Having said that the more sedate “Experience” might have benefitted from being a duet. It’s a shame Diana was not interested in recording any for the project.

[benross]

Diana did well with country; Tears In Vain was among the highlights of the Country, Western & Pop album, and Who Could Ever Doubt My Love, from More Hits, seemed to have a bit of the same sound. Thus, this year, her contributions to my annual Winter Music Compilation CDs will include Tumbling Tumbleweeds and the full Paint Your Wagon medley from the Bing Crosby special.

Sorry Doesn't Always Make It Right was one of those songs that got no airplay when it was released as a single [[at least in the limited time I listened to the radio; I pretty much stopped listening about January 1, 1974; radio seemed rather bland by then, after all of the heady sounds of the 1960s, when Motown was magical).

On finally hearing it, I liked Diana's recording but felt it was on the wrong album; it could have fit nicely on Last Time I Saw Him or following After You on Diana Ross [[1976), and it might have been suitable for Touch Me In The Morning, had that album had After You as its first cut and the title song as its third. It even might have fit with Come In From The Rain on Baby It's Me. But it got lost on side two of Ross, with its unneeded version of Reach Out, I'll Be There and Together, one of Michael Masser's weakest efforts, and it was less appealing than the two other misfits, Where Did We Go Wrong and To Love Again, each of which would have gleamed, deservedly so, in a very different album that was more listenable, being less of a hodgepodge.

[thommg]

I don't recall ever hearing Sorry Doesn't Alway Make It Right on the radio in Washington DC. I did buy the single as soon as I saw it. It had a nice picture sleeve, if I am remembering correctly. A nice song but was surprised that it wasn't on her next album. [[Not unlike If We Go On Together from Land Before Time. I thought it would have been on Working Overtime, her next album, but it didn't show up until Force Behind The Power.)

[sup_fan]

Ben - you're not the first person that has stated they find Together to be a dud. I actually sort of like it! lolol i seem to be in the minority on that one. Is it at the level of It's My Turn or To Love Again - definitely not. but it's peppy and a fun song and a nice change from the mega ballads Masser did with her.

I don't know that i would have used it as a b side. but i think it makes a fine album filler

[Bluebrock]

I checked out Kenny’s “Eyes That See In The Dark” and it’s a really nice song. I wonder why it was not included on the EA album?.
Was it Diana herself that blocked any unreleased songs being used on the expanded RCA albums Bluebrock?. If so it’s hard to understand why.
Regarding “Islands In The Stream”, a duet featuring Kenny as opposed to Baz would have been a much better idea . While his voice worked well with Babs, being so nasal it’s not such a great match up for Diana. Having said that the more sedate “Experience” might have benefitted from being a duet. It’s a shame Diana was not interested in recording any for the project.
It is Diana who blocked it's inclusion on the Eaten Alive expanded edition and indeed the original 1985 release.. She also blocked the inclusion of a great song called It's up to you. Barbra Streisand decided she loved the song and Barry produced it on her for the Guilty2 album. Barry was mystified by some of Diana's decisions.
As regards Islands in the stream Barry envisiged it as a duet between him and Diana. Kenny was not involved until Diana turned down the song. You need to listen to the Kenny Rogers album in full. Nearly all those songs were sent to Diana first. She ignored his calls.

[SatansBlues]

It is Diana who blocked it's inclusion on the Eaten Alive expanded edition and indeed the original 1985 release.. She also blocked the inclusion of a great song called It's up to you. Barbra Streisand decided she loved the song and Barry produced it on her for the Guilty2 album. Barry was mystified by some of Diana's decisions.
As regards Islands in the stream Barry envisiged it as a duet between him and Diana. Kenny was not involved until Diana turned down the song. You need to listen to the Kenny Rogers album in full. Nearly all those songs were sent to Diana first. She ignored his calls.
Bluerock do you know if DR picked all the producers she worked with while she was at RCA? Or did RCA also have a say in picking producers? Who had the final say?

[Boogiedown]

Diana did well with country; Tears In Vain was among the highlights of the Country, Western & Pop album,.

fascinating !!!!!!


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p05_-Sh_CCU

if anyone were to have challenged me, never in a million years would I have guessed, 'Stevie Wonder'.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cIQ4TAOZFfI

[vgalindo]

It is Diana who blocked it's inclusion on the Eaten Alive expanded edition and indeed the original 1985 release.. She also blocked the inclusion of a great song called It's up to you. Barbra Streisand decided she loved the song and Barry produced it on her for the Guilty2 album. Barry was mystified by some of Diana's decisions.
As regards Islands in the stream Barry envisiged it as a duet between him and Diana. Kenny was not involved until Diana turned down the song. You need to listen to the Kenny Rogers album in full. Nearly all those songs were sent to Diana first. She ignored his calls.
Hi Bluebrock. Do you know why Diana blocked the release of these songs? Is it because she does not like them? Hopefully she’s saving them for another future project?

[florence]

@Bluebrock

Great to see you back again.

When you hadn't posted for a long while we were seriously worried.

[florence]

Country & Western is immensely popular in the US but surely mostly within its own market as regards singles.

Obviously there are major crossover hits but it seems to me the proportion is relatively small.

Sorry is a pleasant enough song if not a blockbuster - it did moderately well in the UK but at that time if Diana had recited a couple of verses from the Bible she had enough of a fan base who would have bought it to put it on the lower rungs of the chart.

All the more astonishing when her next release - although it was a year later - Do You Know Where You're Going To completely bombed.

[Ollie9]

It is Diana who blocked it's inclusion on the Eaten Alive expanded edition and indeed the original 1985 release.. She also blocked the inclusion of a great song called It's up to you. Barbra Streisand decided she loved the song and Barry produced it on her for the Guilty2 album. Barry was mystified by some of Diana's decisions.
As regards Islands in the stream Barry envisiged it as a duet between him and Diana. Kenny was not involved until Diana turned down the song. You need to listen to the Kenny Rogers album in full. Nearly all those songs were sent to Diana first. She ignored his calls.

Many thanks for the info Blue.. I really find that all rather sad. Surely she must be aware that the vast majority of her loyal fans are chomping at the bit to hear anything new.
To block the songs being released at all is surely a ridiculous move, if perhaps a ‘tad selfish. It really makes no sense at all. It was the same with the Christmas compilation from last year. Is it all to do with financial recompense?.
To the joy of her fans, Streisand has been releasing whole albums of songs left over from various recording sessions. It makes sense. I love “It’s Up To You” plus most of the songs featured on guilty2 My favourite being “So Hard Letting Go”
Have you any idea her feelings on the superb expanded releases.?. Would she prefer these also were never released?.

[daviddh]

Thanks bluebrock.
Glad you are back as well

[daviddh]

Ran.
I disagree.
Ross was off the charts for half of 1974 and almost all of 1975.
Off the charts for way to long but typical Motown to give us everything one minute than nothing at all
That's why my vote was to release Blue in 1975. Not excuse for this album to sit in the vaults for thirty years.
In my opinion BG was losing his touch

[Bluebrock]

Many thanks for the info Blue.. I really find that all rather sad. Surely she must be aware that the vast majority of her loyal fans are chomping at the bit to hear anything new.
To block the songs being released at all is surely a ridiculous move, if perhaps a ‘tad selfish. It really makes no sense at all. It was the same with the Christmas compilation from last year. Is it all to do with financial recompense?.
To the joy of her fans, Streisand has been releasing whole albums of songs left over from various recording sessions. It makes sense. I love “It’s Up To You” plus most of the songs featured on guilty2 My favourite being “So Hard Letting Go”
Have you any idea her feelings on the superb expanded releases.?. Would she prefer these also were never released?.

Barbra has a vast knowledge of her own music and retains total control of it. Diana has a very poor knowledge of her own music. I could really astound you regarding this, but i see no advantage in doing this. I will merely say her career plays a very poor second to her personal life, and i guess that is the way it should be.
As regards her opinion of the wonderful expanded editions i think there is someone on here with a far greater knowledge of that than me. When i did get a rare opportunity to seek her opinion of the expanded Where did our love go set she said something along the lines of "that is nice for you and the fans" but did not offer her own opinion. The fact that she shows little interest in contributing to the wonderfully detailed inner booklets so lovingly put together by dedicated fans tells it's own story. I don't want to say too much else at the moment. I know that doesn't answer your question, but i feel unable to add anything further. Maybe a good friend of mine on this forum may or may not wish to offer his own comments.

[daviddh]

As hard as BG worked her ..maybe she had her fill of it.. not sure .none of us live her life and have had to make the choices or sacrifices she has made.
But I would think she be interested in her own work..
Will have to check out kenny rogers album. I used to have the album.
Not sure but I don't think diana sees herself the way the fans see or hear her.
Not sure how she picks songs but based on her RCA choices .....not always the best

[daviddh]

I think ...even on Ross...83....a few song switched out could of made the difference...
Same made have been the case if Eaten alive

[khansperac]

Most, but not all fans think her working with Barry Gibb was a mistake. Often cited as one of her worst albums. Maybe after reflection she feels the same way. So I don’t understand why some want to hear unreleased tracks. Or think she made a mistake not working with him again. We have another thread “sorry doesn’t always make it right” talking about what a dismal failure “country” Diana is, maybe she didn’t want to do country again with “Islands in the stream”.

[daviddh]

I get your point but for me the expanded editions is to document the history of Motown or Ross. In some cases ...for example...last time I saw him...hated the original album until the expanded edition.

[Roberta75]

Most, but not all fans think her working with Barry Gibb was a mistake. Often cited as one of her worst albums. Maybe after reflection she feels the same way. So I don’t understand why some want to hear unreleased tracks. Or think she made a mistake not working with him again. We have another thread “sorry doesn’t always make it right” talking about what a dismal failure “country” Diana is, maybe she didn’t want to do country again with “Islands in the stream”.

Chain Reaction was a great song and a real great video and was a huge hit for Miss Ross all over the world buy not the USA.

[lucky2012]

I checked out Kenny’s “Eyes That See In The Dark” and it’s a really nice song. I wonder why it was not included on the EA album?.
Was it Diana herself that blocked any unreleased songs being used on the expanded RCA albums Bluebrock?. If so it’s hard to understand why.
Regarding “Islands In The Stream”, a duet featuring Kenny as opposed to Baz would have been a much better idea . While his voice worked well with Babs, being so nasal it’s not such a great match up for Diana. Having said that the more sedate “Experience” might have benefitted from being a duet. It’s a shame Diana was not interested in recording any for the project.

Islands In The Stream as a Diana Ross/Kenny Rogers duet I think would have been a great idea and a huge hit. In the early 80's, both were reigning superstars in Pop as well as in their respective R&B/Country genres. And Barry Gibb was still the reigning superstar producer/writer, just a couple of years off the mega-hit Barbra Streisand Guilty album. [[Rogers, I agree, would have been a better vocal partner for Ross than the nasal Gibb.)

I read on Wikipedia [[I know, lol) that the song was "originally written for Marvin Gaye, in an R&B style." What of that?!

I'm gonna have to check out Kenny Rogers Eyes That See In The Dark album. Interesting that Islands isn't included in the digital album due to licensing [[again according to Wikipedia).

[Ollie9]

I get your point but for me the expanded editions is to document the history of Motown or Ross. In some cases ...for example...last time I saw him...hated the original album until the expanded edition.

Spot on david. I really can’t imagine any real fan not wanting to hear unreleased songs that might be lurking in the vaults. The expanded editions provide an excellent opportunity to discover hidden gems. Long may they continue.

[Ollie9]

Chain Reaction was a great song and a real great video and was a huge hit for Miss Ross all over the world buy not the USA.

Absolutely Roberta. No matter what ones opinion might be of the of the album,
Chain Reaction” was instrumental in helping resurrect Diana’s popularity across the globe. Thirty four years later and the promotional video still stands as one of her very best.
The song managed to achieve the status of becoming a hit twice over in the UK and remains one of her most popular songs.

[Ollie9]

Islands In The Stream as a Diana Ross/Kenny Rogers duet I think would have been a great idea and a huge hit. In the early 80's, both were reigning superstars in Pop as well as in their respective R&B/Country genres. And Barry Gibb was still the reigning superstar producer/writer, just a couple of years off the mega-hit Barbra Streisand Guilty album. [[Rogers, I agree, would have been a better vocal partner for Ross than the nasal Gibb.)

I read on Wikipedia [[I know, lol) that the song was "originally written for Marvin Gaye, in an R&B style." What of that?!

I'm gonna have to check out Kenny Rogers Eyes That See In The Dark album. Interesting that Islands isn't included in the digital album due to licensing [[again according to Wikipedia).

I must admit to having been extremely surprised when I read about Marvin’s association with the song lucky. “Chain Reaction and Marvin Gaye hmmm. I’m just not hearing it lol. B.G collaborating with Marvin on something might have proved rather interesting. Perhaps a duet album to include Streisand.

[Ollie9]

Barbra has a vast knowledge of her own music and retains total control of it. Diana has a very poor knowledge of her own music. I could really astound you regarding this, but i see no advantage in doing this. I will merely say her career plays a very poor second to her personal life, and i guess that is the way it should be.
As regards her opinion of the wonderful expanded editions i think there is someone on here with a far greater knowledge of that than me. When i did get a rare opportunity to seek her opinion of the expanded Where did our love go set she said something along the lines of "that is nice for you and the fans" but did not offer her own opinion. The fact that she shows little interest in contributing to the wonderfully detailed inner booklets so lovingly put together by dedicated fans tells it's own story. I don't want to say too much else at the moment. I know that doesn't answer your question, but i feel unable to add anything further. Maybe a good friend of mine on this forum may or may not wish to offer his own comments.

In a way Bluebrock i am not totally surprised, so doubt I would be astounded lol.
It’s sad that Diana demonstrates such little interest in the continuing expanded releases when they are testament to her musical legacy. You would think that fan appreciation would also offer at least a minuscule of inclination.
With such little interest being shown, its quite surprising that she finds the time to ensure those unreleased RCA recordings remain just that. ‘Tis a strange one to be sure.

[Bluebrock]

Absolutely Roberta. No matter what ones opinion might be of the of the album,
Chain Reaction” was instrumental in helping resurrect Diana’s popularity across the globe. Thirty four years later and the promotional video still stands as one of her very best.
The song managed to achieve the status of becoming a hit twice over in the UK and remains one of her most popular songs.

I personally quite like the eaten alive album. The title track is a hot mess, but the rest of the album is of a decent standard. It's not a classic but i far prefer it to the likes of workin' overtime, Fools and Silk Electric.
I may be biased because i am friends with Barry Gibb and i maintain he is a musical genius. There are few performers dead or alive who can match his achievements as a singer, songwriter and producer. His songs have been covered by literally 100's and 100's of artists. Not many can match that legacy.

[Bluebrock]

In a way Bluebrock i am not totally surprised, so doubt I would be astounded lol.
It’s sad that Diana demonstrates such little interest in the continuing expanded releases when they are testament to her musical legacy. You would think that fan appreciation would also offer at least a minuscule of inclination.
With such little interest being shown, its quite surprising that she finds the time to ensure those unreleased RCA recordings remain just that. ‘Tis a strange one to be sure.

I gave up getting annoyed about it many years ago. We may only get to hear certain songs after she has passed. She did tell me many years ago that she would leave that decision with her children, and one of them in particular. Hopefully Evan will not be faced with that dilemma for many years to come.

[daviddh]

To bad she would not give into a rca collection with out takes n bonus tracks.
But I suppose we will have to wait.
Damn.well all be old

[daviddh]

Really like eyes that see in the dark. By kenny rogers..
I can hear Diana singing this.

[TheMotownManiac]

Okay Maniac, I never paid attention to the single version before. I gotta say I kind of see where you're coming from. I think had the track had more of a country/soul feel to it, it may have had a better chance. The track is just too country, although the pop feel is squeezing through. I just think a second country type single would've given folks the impression Ross is going Country and they would've laughed and passed, no matter how good the song was. Remix this track and I think it may have done something. Just my thoughts.

interesting view - you are always good for a Unique axiom or comment. I’ve been working a lot in Ohio with my hubby to try to counter GOP voter suppression, so I’m not on here much. Has it made the national news that the GOP in Ohio is trying to limit the Drop-off ballot boxes in each county to one per county??????? Yes, ONE. Some counties have over 800,000 people in them, and currently, one drop off box. And I’m not trying to be political I’m not saying if it’s good or bad and that there’s only one ballot box for every 800,000 people, I’m just simply stating a fact.

PS Where’s Marv2?

[sup_fan]

i think there are just people that don't focus on sentimentality. I myself have boxes and boxes of pictures, was always taking pics of friends in school, can remember all sorts of goofy stories and antics, enjoy reminiscing with and about friends and family

I know some people though that have absolutely 0 recollection of anything they did, they seldom reflect back on old stories, have little to no saved memorabilia of their lives. They simply do not focus on it. it's not that they're oblivious to the past, just that taking time, money and energy to review and enjoy it is not something they want to do.

It's just a matter of how people are wired. Like how some are good at math or whatever.

while i would love to have Diana host a series of podcasts and youtube videos where she joyously goes album by album and event by event through her career, it ain't gonna happen. She also had the opportunity to write her bio and we saw what a hot mess that was.

[Ollie9]

Diana Ross is in noway nostalgic. As such, she refuses to allow previously unreleased material to be included on expanded rca editions. Sorry, but it does sound rather overly simplistic to me.
I don’t know the process regarding her giving the green light for such unreleased material to be released, but surely it can’t be that complicated. It’s not as if she is even being asked to listen to the albums.
Expanded albums are being released on various artists all the time, often with their full support and approval.
Perhaps taking the time to do something special for the fans with no financial gain to be had is one kind deed to far.

[Bluebrock]

Islands In The Stream as a Diana Ross/Kenny Rogers duet I think would have been a great idea and a huge hit. In the early 80's, both were reigning superstars in Pop as well as in their respective R&B/Country genres. And Barry Gibb was still the reigning superstar producer/writer, just a couple of years off the mega-hit Barbra Streisand Guilty album. [[Rogers, I agree, would have been a better vocal partner for Ross than the nasal Gibb.)

I read on Wikipedia [[I know, lol) that the song was "originally written for Marvin Gaye, in an R&B style." What of that?!

I'm gonna have to check out Kenny Rogers Eyes That See In The Dark album. Interesting that Islands isn't included in the digital album due to licensing [[again according to Wikipedia).

I'm not sure how true that one is!
Barry told me well over 20 years ago that it was written as a proposed duet between him and Diana. He even played me the demo he sent to Diana which featured a very talented female session singer performing what eventually turned out to be Dolly Parton's contribution. It was a little more r&b orientated than the eventual released version, but i do not recall Barry ever mentioning Marvin in relation to this song.

[benross]

"You're not the first person that has stated they find Together to be a dud. I actually sort of like it! lolol i seem to be in the minority on that one. Is it at the level of It's My Turn or To Love Again - definitely not. but it's peppy and a fun song and a nice change from the mega ballads Masser did with her..."
_____________________________

sup-fan, while Together sounds peppy to you, to me it sounds like an unimaginative, bad rewrite of Baby Love, with a bit of Love Child rolled in.

In both Together and Baby Love, the first few lines of each verse are structured in the same short, staccato format, and while the number of syllables in the words vary, the melody is much the same.

The last lines of each Together verse are roughly reminiscent of the descending parts of the "oooh" chorus following the "tenement slum" opening scene-setting declarative noun, before the lyrics begin to unfold, in Love Child.

Together's intertwined melodies aren't precise copies, of course. Rather, they come across as late-at-night hummings [[or piano poundings) of songs the composer hasn't heard recently, songs that were earlier hits for the vocalist for whom he is trying to come up with something suitable, repeating phrases in a lazy way, fitting parts of them "together" -- and coming up, inadvertently, with a title for the mess/mosh/mesh.

The end result is not so much "inspired by" the earlier songs but is a too familiar recreation of parts of them. The lyrics, too, sound like tired retreads.

And Diana seems to have recognized that it had all been done before. Her voice is, technically, perfect from note to note, but her delivery is perfunctory, lacking the sincerity she brought to Baby Love and the anger and hope she brought to Love Child. There's no sense of immediacy or commitment by her, perhaps because she knows there was no commitment by the writer, who took a "little bit of this, little bit of that" approach hoping 4+4 would equal 10, but ended up with a 3 overall.

[thommg]

I personally quite like the eaten alive album. The title track is a hot mess, but the rest of the album is of a decent standard. It's not a classic but i far prefer it to the likes of workin' overtime, Fools and Silk Electric.
I may be biased because i am friends with Barry Gibb and i maintain he is a musical genius. There are few performers dead or alive who can match his achievements as a singer, songwriter and producer. His songs have been covered by literally 100's and 100's of artists. Not many can match that legacy.

I guess I am the other one who loves the Eaten Alive album, Bluebrock, aside from the title track which is, to use your words, a hot mess. My only issue with it is I think the mix is a little muddy. But, there are some wonderful songs on there.

[vgalindo]

I guess I am the other one who loves the Eaten Alive album, Bluebrock, aside from the title track which is, to use your words, a hot mess. My only issue with it is I think the mix is a little muddy. But, there are some wonderful songs on there.
I also love the Eaten Alive album. One of my favorite albums of Diana Ross.

[TheMotownManiac]

"You're not the first person that has stated they find Together to be a dud. I actually sort of like it! lolol i seem to be in the minority on that one. Is it at the level of It's My Turn or To Love Again - definitely not. but it's peppy and a fun song and a nice change from the mega ballads Masser did with her..."
_____________________________

sup-fan, while Together sounds peppy to you, to me it sounds like an unimaginative, bad rewrite of Baby Love, with a bit of Love Child rolled in.

In both Together and Baby Love, the first few lines of each verse are structured in the same short, staccato format, and while the number of syllables in the words vary, the melody is much the same.

The last lines of each Together verse are roughly reminiscent of the descending parts of the "oooh" chorus following the "tenement slum" opening scene-setting declarative noun, before the lyrics begin to unfold, in Love Child.

Together's intertwined melodies aren't precise copies, of course. Rather, they come across as late-at-night hummings [[or piano poundings) of songs the composer hasn't heard recently, songs that were earlier hits for the vocalist for whom he is trying to come up with something suitable, repeating phrases in a lazy way, fitting parts of them "together" -- and coming up, inadvertently, with a title for the mess/mosh/mesh.

The end result is not so much "inspired by" the earlier songs but is a too familiar recreation of parts of them. The lyrics, too, sound like tired retreads.

And Diana seems to have recognized that it had all been done before. Her voice is, technically, perfect from note to note, but her delivery is perfunctory, lacking the sincerity she brought to Baby Love and the anger and hope she brought to Love Child. There's no sense of immediacy or commitment by her, perhaps because she knows there was no commitment by the writer, who took a "little bit of this, little bit of that" approach hoping 4+4 would equal 10, but ended up with a 3 overall.

i think Together is a dud and crud. Simple lyrics that mean nothing, a sophomoric chorus melody and a perfunctory vocal makes this the worst Masser song ever for me. I never play it unless I don’t feel like programming it out. I’m shocked it ever got sequenced into any album. Maybe my least fave Motown solo recording.

[Ollie9]

I guess I am the other one who loves the Eaten Alive album, Bluebrock, aside from the title track which is, to use your words, a hot mess. My only issue with it is I think the mix is a little muddy. But, there are some wonderful songs on there.

Had the album been released anywhere between 81 and 83 i think it would done incredibly well.. The only thing it lacked was a killer ballad.
A duet with M.J in the vein of “I Just Can’t Stop Loving You” would have been rather nice and help cement the albums success after the huge success of “CR”.
For me, either “Experience” or “ I Love Being In Love” would have worked better as a duet. Probably with B.G. It certainly would have guaranteed more air play.

[florence]

I love the Eaten Alive album too.

Apart from the magnificent Chain Reaction which is loved by the UK public and easily her most recognised song here, the three track segment of [[I Love) Being In Love With You, Crime Of Passion [[which I am convinced would have been a huge hit as the follow-up to Reaction) and Don't Give Up On Each Other is simply divine.

[Bluebrock]

I love the Eaten Alive album too.

Apart from the magnificent Chain Reaction which is loved by the UK public and easily her most recognised song here, the three track segment of [[I Love) Being In Love With You, Crime Of Passion [[which I am convinced would have been a huge hit as the follow-up to Reaction) and Don't Give Up On Each Other is simply divine.

Preach Florence Preach!
I was furious that Crimes of Passion was not chosen as the follow up to Chain Reaction. It had smash hit written all over it .
It must be a memorable song because even Diana herself said it was one of her favourite rca tracks, and she is normally utterly useless at recalling or discussing her own recordings!

[daviddh]

I also loved Eaten alive minus the title cut.
Omg.crimes of passion. How did that get over looked.
Some gems.love more and more and I'm watching you.
Strange...red hot n blue had one unreleased track. Wonder how or why that one got out

[Boogiedown]

I love the Eaten Alive album too.

Apart from the magnificent Chain Reaction which is loved by the UK public and easily her most recognised song here, the three track segment of [[I Love) Being In Love With You, Crime Of Passion [[which I am convinced would have been a huge hit as the follow-up to Reaction) and Don't Give Up On Each Other is simply divine.


It's quite good !! Loudly era appropriate. I hear a hit !! Had only Diana let the Bee Gees be heard on here in the same way Ashford and Simpson were on THE BOSS.:)


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zCFZnmZfcJM



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=skPXJ3K-GSw

[Ollie9]

It's quite good !! Loudly era appropriate. I hear a hit !! Had only Diana let the Bee Gees be heard on here in the same way Ashford and Simpson were on THE BOSS.:)


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zCFZnmZfcJM



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=skPXJ3K-GSw

A good song that certainly has more oomph then “Experience”. The problem for me is that i can hardly understand a word she is singing. Her vocals are incredibly muffled as much the same way on “Eaten Alive. This alone i think would have been enough to prevent it becoming a sizeable hit. On “Chain Reaction” you can understand every word she is singing.
A remix to sharpen up the clarity of those vocals would make all the difference.

[midnightman]

Diana had a modest hit with another country-flavored hit, "Last Time I Saw Him". I guess they were looking for lighting in a bottle for a second time and it never got there because Motown's promotional tactics on Diana were weird as hell.

[sup_fan]

Diana had a modest hit with another country-flavored hit, "Last Time I Saw Him". I guess they were looking for lighting in a bottle for a second time and it never got there because Motown's promotional tactics on Diana were weird as hell.

i'd describe Last Time as a bit more than just a modest hit. It peaked at 14 on the pop charts which is higher than Remember Me, Reach out I'll be there, Reach out and touch, surrender. and was #1 Adult Contemporary. also it was on the pop charts for 14 weeks which is a good long run. Mountain was on the charts for only 13

i think it would have charted higher had it not been for the duets. Last Time was released on 12/6 and entered the Hot 100 on 1/5. My Mistake was released in Jan too

[florence]

i'd describe Last Time as a bit more than just a modest hit. It peaked at 14 on the pop charts which is higher than Remember Me, Reach out I'll be there, Reach out and touch, surrender. and was #1 Adult Contemporary. also it was on the pop charts for 14 weeks which is a good long run. Mountain was on the charts for only 13

i think it would have charted higher had it not been for the duets. Last Time was released on 12/6 and entered the Hot 100 on 1/5. My Mistake was released in Jan too

Don't forget too that Last Time as with Reach Out And Touch and Remember Me went Top 10 on both Cashbox and Record World which were both compiled on sales only at that trime - it was airplay on pop stations which held it back.

There seems to be no information on sales for Diana's RCA singles but of her Motown releases outside of her #1s [[all 1m or close to) Last Time and I'm Coming Out were supposedly her biggest sellers.

Some here on the Board believe I'm Coming Out was a million seller but I can't see it.

By 1980 Motown was a memeber of RIAA - they claimed awards for Upside Down, the diana album and Endless Love so if I'm Coming Out had shipped let alone sold 1m copies why would they not have claimed the award for it?

[midnightman]

Do we have to wait until Berry passes to get the truth of who sold what???

It's frustrating because we think when we see chart positions that they were "flops" but the way songs were released then seemed very different from now. Like some songs sold very well regionally as they did nationally. Surprised to read Last Time I Saw Him was supposedly a huge seller despite its chart positions.

[midnightman]

i'd describe Last Time as a bit more than just a modest hit. It peaked at 14 on the pop charts which is higher than Remember Me, Reach out I'll be there, Reach out and touch, surrender. and was #1 Adult Contemporary. also it was on the pop charts for 14 weeks which is a good long run. Mountain was on the charts for only 13

i think it would have charted higher had it not been for the duets. Last Time was released on 12/6 and entered the Hot 100 on 1/5. My Mistake was released in Jan too

I forget that most pop songs didn't stay on the charts for long periods of time. That wasn't until recently. And yes I'm aware it was number one on the Adult Contemporary charts so that might've done with its sales.

[sup_fan]

there are some old threads on here where Bayou provides wonderful insight around sales and chart rankings. I'll try and remember and paraphrase [[bayou - please jump in and correct! lolol)

the sups were notorious for racing like a bat out of hell up the charts and then dropping immediately. the majority of their 60s hits averaged about 10 weeks of the Billboard charts. and most also dropped off rapidly after their peak.