70's Supremes & contracts & percentages

[jim aka jtigre99]

After rereading some of Mary's books I have to wonder about the contacts for the replacement members in the 1970's. Jean was said to have been salaried, so did she get a percentage for performing or royalties? Cindy was said to have signed away her royalties when she left the group, much like Flo did but was she signed in the 60's at a lesser percentage than Diana & Mary? Jean and Mary picked Lynda, how was she compensated? I also read that Mary took control in 1973 and when Pedro asked Lynda to come back she wanted a full one third percentage and extras for singing solos. Scherrie & Susaye were first signed to Mary's corporation, Supremes inc. so they were working for Mary. How did this play with Motown's contracts? Did Mary receive the full amount and then pay them at the agreed percentages from their contract with her? I don't know how that would make me feel part of the group if financially I am not compensated yet have to work the same as any member of the group. I always wondered if that part of the business bothered them as much as the Motown contracts caused so much financial problems for Florence, Mary and even Diana. Does anyone have the 411?

[blackguy69]

As far as it’s been known, Mary or Diana never signed their royalties away.
If I’m correct anyone joining would be salaried for 18 months before seeing any royalties.

[sup_fan]

my understanding is that Jean was salaried for a period of time but then went to royalties. I don't know if that was 12 or 18 months. and i don't know if that means she only earned royalties on subsequent songs or if she would begin earning royalties on songs like Ladder.

From what other fans have said, this was part of the problem. the 70s Sups biggest hits occurred between Feb 70 and spring 71. Jean worked hard on all of those recordings and all but didn't receive a fair compensation. it was the correct compensation meaning it was legal and in line with her contract and all. i don't think motown cheated her.

So this issue with the royalties certainly would have eaten at her spirit. combined with the matter that she really couldn't control or guide the direction of the group. if she thought they should do certain things or record certain types of music, that wasn't really necessarily taken into consideration. So she had very little input or control over her earnings. other people dictated that

also i believe i read that Jean signed away her royalties when she left motown. although i'm not certain about that. Did jean leave before her contract expired? or did she leave when it expired?

[blackguy69]

I think Jean’s contract ran out in June 1973 . I’ve heard that Jean received a large some once she left.
my understanding is that Jean was salaried for a period of time but then went to royalties. I don't know if that was 12 or 18 months. and i don't know if that means she only earned royalties on subsequent songs or if she would begin earning royalties on songs like Ladder.

From what other fans have said, this was part of the problem. the 70s Sups biggest hits occurred between Feb 70 and spring 71. Jean worked hard on all of those recordings and all but didn't receive a fair compensation. it was the correct compensation meaning it was legal and in line with her contract and all. i don't think motown cheated her.

So this issue with the royalties certainly would have eaten at her spirit. combined with the matter that she really couldn't control or guide the direction of the group. if she thought they should do certain things or record certain types of music, that wasn't really necessarily taken into consideration. So she had very little input or control over her earnings. other people dictated that

also i believe i read that Jean signed away her royalties when she left motown. although i'm not certain about that. Did jean leave before her contract expired? or did she leave when it expired?

[reese]

my understanding is that Jean was salaried for a period of time but then went to royalties. I don't know if that was 12 or 18 months. and i don't know if that means she only earned royalties on subsequent songs or if she would begin earning royalties on songs like Ladder.

From what other fans have said, this was part of the problem. the 70s Sups biggest hits occurred between Feb 70 and spring 71. Jean worked hard on all of those recordings and all but didn't receive a fair compensation. it was the correct compensation meaning it was legal and in line with her contract and all. i don't think motown cheated her.

So this issue with the royalties certainly would have eaten at her spirit. combined with the matter that she really couldn't control or guide the direction of the group. if she thought they should do certain things or record certain types of music, that wasn't really necessarily taken into consideration. So she had very little input or control over her earnings. other people dictated that

also i believe i read that Jean signed away her royalties when she left motown. although i'm not certain about that. Did jean leave before her contract expired? or did she leave when it expired?

I recall a Jean quote where she supposedly said something like [[and I'm paraphrasing) "Just because I'm making four pennies now, don't tell me I'm supposed to be happy with it because I was only making three at first."

Re her contract, in Mary's second book, she wrote that Jean called her and said she was "asking Berry for her contract back." I assumed that meant she was leaving before completing it. Weren't most Motown contracts 7 years in length?

[blackguy69]

Motown gave out 4 and 7 year contracts. I’m sure Jean had a 4 year contract like Mary and Cindy.
I recall a Jean quote where she supposedly said something like [[and I'm paraphrasing) "Just because I'm making four pennies now, don't tell me I'm supposed to be happy with it because I was only making three at first."

Re her contract, in Mary's second book, she wrote that Jean called her and said she was "asking Berry for her contract back." I assumed that meant she was leaving before completing it. Weren't most Motown contracts 7 years in length?

[jobeterob]

Interesting topic. However, it is probably only of historical interest now and in today's world, it doesn't really matter what they did because the royalties they would be receiving now are next to nothing.

I read that royalties would have maybe been $100,000 to Diana in the 90's - but now I bet you they don't even get $10,000 a year.

What do you guys think? Or know?

[blackguy69]

It depends on what their deal was and how much if the material is sold today.

Interesting topic. However, it is probably only of historical interest now and in today's world, it doesn't really matter what they did because the royalties they would be receiving now are next to nothing.

I read that royalties would have maybe been $100,000 to Diana in the 90's - but now I bet you they don't even get $10,000 a year.

What do you guys think? Or know?

[BayouMotownMan]

I think Jean’s contract ran out in June 1973 . I’ve heard that Jean received a large some once she left.

Jean signed a 5 yr contract that ran out in 1974. She left the group in September 1973 by asking Berry Gordy personally to release her. She did receive a settlement a year or so later but it was a modest one. Jean had good lawyers.

Jean was salaried the entire time she was in the group when it came to recording royalties. It was she that pointed out to Mary that the numbers did not add up which is when Mary demanded an accounting in early 1971 and was shocked to find out she only had $100K tax free.

[sup_fan]

Jean signed a 5 yr contract that ran out in 1974. She left the group in September 1973 by asking Berry Gordy personally to release her. She did receive a settlement a year or so later but it was a modest one. Jean had good lawyers.

Jean was salaried the entire time she was in the group when it came to recording royalties. It was she that pointed out to Mary that the numbers did not add up which is when Mary demanded an accounting in early 1971 and was shocked to find out she only had $100K tax free.

thanks for the update Bayou!! always love reading your posts :)

[SatansBlues]

What type of arrangement did Paul Williams have when he was forced to leave the Temptations?

[blackguy69]

You sure that Jeans contract was 5 years? What I’ve learned from every Motown artist that has spoken in this either had a 4 year or a 7 year contract. It seems that everyone signed before 65 had a 4 year contract whereas everyone from 65 on had 7 year contracts
Jean signed a 5 yr contract that ran out in 1974. She left the group in September 1973 by asking Berry Gordy personally to release her. She did receive a settlement a year or so later but it was a modest one. Jean had good lawyers.

Jean was salaried the entire time she was in the group when it came to recording royalties. It was she that pointed out to Mary that the numbers did not add up which is when Mary demanded an accounting in early 1971 and was shocked to find out she only had $100K tax free.

[sup_fan]

What type of arrangement did Paul Williams have when he was forced to leave the Temptations?

i believe he stayed on the group's payroll, at the insistence of the group members. I don't know if he moved into a "consultative role" or something like that. basically in title only. but in Otis' book he says that Paul continued to receive money even after he was no longer singing or performing with the group

no idea about his arrangement regarding royalties

also what happens in the event of a death while signed to the label? Like Tammi or Shorty Long? sure neither probably had huge royalty checks but does the label continue to pay to the estate/family? is there language that states the money ends at death?

[jobeterob]

It depends on what their deal was and how much if the material is sold today.

The sales are down to next to nothing - the source of revenue today for artists is mostly touring. I saw last week that at #66 on Billboard Top 20, you were selling 6000 to 8000 copies.

[blackguy69]

Short of them telling us what they make we will not know for sure.

The sales are down to next to nothing - the source of revenue today for artists is mostly touring. I saw last week that at #66 on Billboard Top 20, you were selling 6000 to 8000 copies.

[BayouMotownMan]

You sure that Jeans contract was 5 years? What I’ve learned from every Motown artist that has spoken in this either had a 4 year or a 7 year contract. It seems that everyone signed before 65 had a 4 year contract whereas everyone from 65 on had 7 year contracts

It may have been 7 yrs, all I know is Jean got out of it

[carlo]

I saw last week that at #66 on Billboard Top 20, you were selling 6000 to 8000 copies.

I'd be surprised if it's even that much.

[blackguy69]

I’m pretty sure she was signed in the same timeline as Mary and Cindy. They had 4 year contracts.
It may have been 7 yrs, all I know is Jean got out of it