“Secrets of a Sparrow”

[monicarivers]

Who is this “DetroitLives313” person?

17914

[Circa 1824]

Who is this “DetroitLives313” person?
17914

I don’t know who that person is [[cough cough) but I think her book was the worst in a decade rather than a year.

[nathanj06]

Have to agree. It was such a let down and came through as somewhat phony and boring. She has a story. She just doesn't want to tell it like it is. It hit the budget tables very quickly back then. And that cover...pure tacky. I know Tina Turner posed for a similar photo but Diana Ross? No. Her attempt at becoming some sex symbol backfired, but hey, there are worse.

[BobbyC]

I read it when it came out and laughed most of the way through it. DR said she was writing an "inspirational book" but it just came off as narcissistic, pompous and really pretty dull. I was glad to hear her speak honestly on a few issues--but those were few and far between. Randy Tarrorborelli made a big deal out of the fact that DR never once mentions Florence Ballard's alleged rape, and to my mind he was implying that maybe it never really happened, but I think it was more a case of DR wanting private things to remain private. You could see that as having class or you could see it as dishonest, depending on your POV. I personally feel that DR thought this deeply personal issue should remain a "family secret."

[Roberta75]

Who is this “DetroitLives313” person?

17914

The one that claims to "rarely go into Diane Ross threads" LMFAO

[milven]

I don’t know who that person is [[cough cough) but I think her book was the worst in a decade rather than a year.

Oh, I think we all know who "that person" is :D
The book was bad and took its place among other Celebrity Autobiographies written by Madonna, Vanna White, Elizabeth Taylor, Sylester Stallone and others.

There was a show Off Broadway called "Celebrity Autobiography: In Their Own Words". Celebrities would read passages from other celebrities autobiographies verbatim and it would get laughter from the audience. Diana's autobiography was one of them.

Diana did have another book called UPSIDE DOWN which was much more personal and revealing, but it was never released
https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/320231.Upside_Down

[BobbyC]

I read tons of show biz books, even those about stars I don't care much about, but pretty much stopped reading autobiographies years ago--they are just too phony. Stars white wash everything, lie about a lot of things--basically the memoirs are PR instruments and I have no interest in that. I want the real story, the good the bad and the ugly. Michael Jackson's Moonwalker, for example, was so white-washed I couldn't believe it. There was nothing of substance there. If you want the unvarnished truth, read bios of background singers, musicians and other peripheral players. They tend to be more upfront. Darlene Love's memoirs were fascinating.

[Circa 1824]

Diana did have another book called UPSIDE DOWN which was much more personal and revealing, but it was never released
https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/320231.Upside_Down

That second book was rejected twice by the publisher because Ross wrote and tried to get paid for writing another boring clunker. The publisher refused to accept it, and Ross had to return the advance payment.

[Boogiedown]

That second book was rejected twice by the publisher because Ross wrote and tried to get paid for writing another boring clunker. The publisher refused to accept it, and Ross had to return the advance payment.

It would have to have been pretty bad for that to happen. Couldn't she have shopped it around? No one would touch it?
Here's an idea ... during this down time, dig out that manuscript Diana !! Polish it up and add a postscript.... maybe even redo it from this angle

: What I thought then , and how I feel about it all now.

[khansperac]

That second book was rejected twice by the publisher because Ross wrote and tried to get paid for writing another boring clunker. The publisher refused to accept it, and Ross had to return the advance payment.

I dont recall ever hearing this. I read Diana had second thoughts about "going there" and decided to look ahead. So she pulled the book.

[vgalindo]

I dont recall ever hearing this. I read Diana had second thoughts about "going there" and decided to look ahead. So she pulled the book.
That’s exactly what I heard. Diana Ross herself is the one who stopped the book from being published. She wanted to move forward and changed her mind. She returned the advancement.

[monicarivers]

Going Back from 2001 is a pretty special Diana Ross book. Lacks the substance we wanted from a “memoir” but perfect text to accompany a photo/coffee table memoir.

[RanRan79]

The book starts off great and then eventually crashes and burns. I thought she was her most revealing about her life pre-Primettes. I also thought she was rather forthcoming with her feelings about Florence. But at some point she just goes on and on about "nothing". And there's a point, if I recall correctly, where she says she recorded "Someday We'll Be Together" around the time Flo was fired, and those kinds of detail screwups turn me off. I realize that as people age their memories don't always line up with reality, but Diana was in her 40s and she couldn't accurately recall that "Someday" was recorded shortly before her exit from the group? I guess I shouldn't be too hard on her. In 1970 she introduced "Love Is Here and Now You're Gone" as being from 1965. The lady must have had a lot on her mind.:rolleyes:

As for the possible second book, I think it might have proven to be a good read. She was fresh out of rehab, right? There's a clarity that supposedly comes during these freshly sober times, so it would've been really interesting to see how she viewed both the distant past and the not so distant past.

I'm really curious about the way Diana views Flo's "difficulties" now. She always seemed to treat Flo's issues in the group as alcohol induced, and later mental illness, always with an air of "I don't understand what her problem was". After Diana's own alcoholism, and the resulting DUI, I would love to know if she looks back at Florence and thinks, "Okay, I see how shit can get so bad that you self medicate. I get it now." I would hope a second autobiography would address that, cuz clearly no interviewer has the balls to ask her.:p

[midnightman]

As a fan of Diana Ross, I'll say this:

"Secrets of a Sparrow" was possibly the worst autobiography ever written by a rock and roll legend, second only to Michael Jackson's "Moonwalker".

https://media.giphy.com/media/pSauCNBp1DcOY/giphy.gif

[khansperac]

^^^ no matter how many times I see that gif, it cracks me up. Classic.

[jim aka jtigre99]

I would not say it was the worst autobiography ever. I found it very superficial and lacking details on what must have been a very exciting life. She glossed over many things in an attempt to be "inspirational". It was not horrible, and she does sort of give some of her initial feelings about Flo and Mary, it seems by the time Cindy joined she was too preoccupied to give any feelings beyond a nice girl eager to please. Still, it give a slight insight into her but was not very forthcoming in terms of feelings and specifics. Still, she wrote some things, even though you can tell she was guarding her image and was not totally forthcoming in her own, actual feelings and thoughts-no personal perspectives except ones to "inspire". It was her choice to tell her story in any way she felt but it was disappointing in many respects.

[floyjoy678]

I'm probably the minority but I actually liked Diana's book lol. I enjoyed that she kept it PG and I think it shows that she chose to take the high road. Her segment on the Supremes was not exactly tell all but it helped me understand Diana's point of view a little better and how stressful it was for her. She seemed to talk about Flo more than Mary and I got a sense that she admired Flo but was also angry at her for the way things went down. I felt sad for Diana when reading parts about her relationship with Berry. He really played her. Sure she became a superstar but at the cost of her health, both mentally and physically. It sounded very abusive to me.

[floyjoy678]

To add in: there's a story in the book I remember Diana telling where the Supremes were playing in Canada or somewhere north where it was below freezing temperatures. Diana was sick and when coming off stage Berry rubbed her body up and down with alcohol so she wouldn't get more sick. Diana says she felt like that was Berry showing her love. To me, it was him worrying about losing money. She shouldn't have even been performing in the first place if she was sick.

[Guy]

I think her penance should be recording an audio book of "Secrets of a Sparrow." I believe she would be overcome by shame and regret having to speak aloud the inane ramblings in that book.

[floyjoy678]

I think her penance should be recording an audio book of "Secrets of a Sparrow." I believe she would be overcome by shame and regret having to speak aloud the inane ramblings in that book.

She did record an audiobook. It's on youtube I believe.

[midnightman]

I'm probably the minority but I actually liked Diana's book lol. I enjoyed that she kept it PG and I think it shows that she chose to take the high road. Her segment on the Supremes was not exactly tell all but it helped me understand Diana's point of view a little better and how stressful it was for her. She seemed to talk about Flo more than Mary and I got a sense that she admired Flo but was also angry at her for the way things went down. I felt sad for Diana when reading parts about her relationship with Berry. He really played her. Sure she became a superstar but at the cost of her health, both mentally and physically. It sounded very abusive to me.

Those were some interesting parts about Berry. She didn't really spare him lol

I think it was actually much worse but Diana definitely indicated that there was a lot of abuse in that relationship.

[luke]

Saying she should have slapped Flo across the face to knock some sense into her doesn’t strike me as admiration. But apparently Ross has been abusive as well. Didnt she slap Berry across the face dying filming of Mahogany?

[BobbyC]

Luke--yeah she did! She was right to smack him!

[floyjoy678]

Saying she should have slapped Flo across the face to knock some sense into her doesn’t strike me as admiration. But apparently Ross has been abusive as well. Didnt she slap Berry across the face dying filming of Mahogany?

And Luke you've never wanted to slap someone you care about to knock some sense into them? I can tell you I have. To a couple of my relatives many a time. I think it just shows how much I love them and care about them.

[BobbyC]

I have slapped the crap out of people.

[BobbyC]

Sorry. I got caught up in the emotion of it all...

[midnightman]

Saying she should have slapped Flo across the face to knock some sense into her doesn’t strike me as admiration. But apparently Ross has been abusive as well. Didnt she slap Berry across the face dying filming of Mahogany?

Only because Berry kept berating at her a$$, I'd slap him too.
Diana knows if she had tried to do that to Flo, Flo would beat her a$$ lmao
I'm a Diana fan but come on, Flo intimidated Diana a lot of times. XD

[jobucats]

I really wanted to like this book...I really did. She just jumps from one topic to another without regard to a particular time order. Maybe it's me, but I prefer a biography or autobiography to flow in chronological order. As others have suggested, maybe this was supposed to be more of an inspirational book than an autobiography. But I will say this, she kept the 'high road' rather than sharply slandering others.

[captainjames]

The second book was called "Upside Down: Wrong Turns, Right Turns and the Road Ahead" and Diana is the one who pulled it. It was supposed to be one of those books as a retaliation against some allegations that had been made about her. She decided to move forward with the positive instead negative energy.

To answer a statement someone made earlier about Flo I believe she did truly love her Supreme pal or she would not tried to bail her out during rough times however it was hard getting around Tommy. Diana feels those personal moments or times are just that personal.

Last, yes Berry was not the nicest person to her especially when it came to his company and getting ahead. Most women would have walked away but Diana wanted the fame and admiration from the fans. A slap across the face from the set of Mahogany was probably well deserved during that time. Leaving Motown with only a couple hundred thousand ...... Really ??

[midnightman]

Right. $150,000 after 20 years and 18 number one hits??? And who knows how many millions of records?

If Tommy hadn't been around, maybe Diana [[and Mary) would've gotten through to Flo. You know how men can be. <_<

[RanRan79]

As a fan of Diana Ross, I'll say this:

"Secrets of a Sparrow" was possibly the worst autobiography ever written by a rock and roll legend, second only to Michael Jackson's "Moonwalker".

LOL I loved "Moonwalker" as a kid because, well, it was Michael Jackson. During the 80s and early to mid 90s, Michael could've mixed shit and Cheerios, packaged them up and sold them as Shitty-O's, and I would've damn near cut my mama to get a box. But I haven't read the book since it was a new release. On the other hand, about 9 years ago I watched the Moonwalker movie for the first time in probably 20 years and was shocked to discover that I was bored out of my mind through most of it. Back in the day we watched that damn movie so much that I could recite it line for line. I guess one had to be a kid to appreciate it. I'm curious now about how I might view the book any differently today.

[RanRan79]

I would not say it was the worst autobiography ever. I found it very superficial and lacking details on what must have been a very exciting life. She glossed over many things in an attempt to be "inspirational". It was not horrible, and she does sort of give some of her initial feelings about Flo and Mary, it seems by the time Cindy joined she was too preoccupied to give any feelings beyond a nice girl eager to please. Still, it give a slight insight into her but was not very forthcoming in terms of feelings and specifics. Still, she wrote some things, even though you can tell she was guarding her image and was not totally forthcoming in her own, actual feelings and thoughts-no personal perspectives except ones to "inspire". It was her choice to tell her story in any way she felt but it was disappointing in many respects.

One passage that I always thought was interesting was when she wrote about being talked about by Flo and Mary behind her back and sometimes when her back wasn't turned. Many of us understand Mary's, and especially Flo's, resentment about certain things, but I imagine it had to suck to know that even though she wasn't in charge, that a lot of the anger and bitterness was directed her way. That's not excusing times when Diana may have done things that rightfully incurred the ire of her singing partners. But Gordy had a record label to run, so he wasn't with the ladies 24/7. Diana probably got a lot of what Gordy might have gotten had he been around more. At a certain point Diana was performing with two girls that loved her dearly but was increasingly not liking her. That had to suck.

[RanRan79]

To add in: there's a story in the book I remember Diana telling where the Supremes were playing in Canada or somewhere north where it was below freezing temperatures. Diana was sick and when coming off stage Berry rubbed her body up and down with alcohol so she wouldn't get more sick. Diana says she felt like that was Berry showing her love. To me, it was him worrying about losing money. She shouldn't have even been performing in the first place if she was sick.

Gordy didn't care about any of their health. There's that story Florence tells about having walking pneumonia and her doctor advising against her performing at an outdoor concert. Gordy, I think, talked the doctor into agreeing to let Flo go on, but only if she was on for a limited amount of time. In the end Florence was outdoors in the elements rehearsing for a lengthy period of time. Gordy wanted these girls working so he could line his pockets, which I don't have a problem with. However, he was willing to jeopardize their health in order to do it, and that I have a big problem with. Pneumonia aint nothing to play with.

[RanRan79]

I think her penance should be recording an audio book of "Secrets of a Sparrow." I believe she would be overcome by shame and regret having to speak aloud the inane ramblings in that book.

And here ya go. LMAO


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Cmf6ZbUA2F4&amp;t=6069s

[RanRan79]

Saying she should have slapped Flo across the face to knock some sense into her doesn’t strike me as admiration. But apparently Ross has been abusive as well. Didnt she slap Berry across the face dying filming of Mahogany?

I believe Diana said she wanted to shake Florence, not slap. You seriously don't get why she would say that? Who hasn't wanted to knock the hell out of someone they love when they're screwing up? Do you have family? Or are they all perfect? If so, lucky you, cuz I have some loved ones who sometimes need a good ass whooping. Truth be told, I need mine kicked every now and then. When you love people, you check them when they aren't living up to expectations. Florence had more talent in her pinky than some folks have in their entire bodies and her story should've never played out the way that it did. I imagine to anyone who loved her, there were times when they wanted to scream, slap and shake Flo to get her to get it together. Hell, the same probably can be said about Mary and Diana too, neither of whom always live up to expectations.

[RanRan79]

Only because Berry kept berating at her a$$, I'd slap him too.
Diana knows if she had tried to do that to Flo, Flo would beat her a$$ lmao
I'm a Diana fan but come on, Flo intimidated Diana a lot of times. XD

Of course Diana was probably speaking figuratively rather than literally. But I think most people get the sentiment.

Apparently Flo intimidated a lot of people. I think it was Martha Reeves who said Flo had a way of looking at someone that made it clear she wasn't one to tangle with. But yet so many folks who knew her speak so highly of her. So I don't think it was Flo walking around like she was Miss Tough Stuff as much as it was her having an air about her that said "Don't try me".

But I would've loved a front row seat to whatever was going down that night between Lala Brooks and Diana and Flo. No lie. Lol

[SatansBlues]

DR is not the type to roll around in the dirt for a big paycheck, she doesn't have to. At the time of her book she was a mother of 5, her persona is not one of anger or revenge or even regret. "If I had to live my life all over, I wouldn't change a thing." DR

[RanRan79]

If Tommy hadn't been around, maybe Diana [[and Mary) would've gotten through to Flo. You know how men can be. <_<

Tommy is an interesting factor in the story. If you pay attention to the approximate time he and Flo get together, it basically corresponds with her going off the rails. Now I'm not explicitly saying that Tommy was the cause of anything. I'm just saying it's an interesting point of fact that these two events happen around the same time. So someone like me starts to ponder if things may have played out differently with Tommy not in the picture. Would things have been different if Flo had a guy that was the opposite of Tommy? No one has these answers, of course, but it's something to think about.

[RanRan79]

DR is not the type to roll around in the dirt for a big paycheck, she doesn't have to. At the time of her book she was a mother of 5, her persona is not one of anger or revenge or even regret. "If I had to live my life all over, I wouldn't change a thing." DR

Well to be fair, she may not have had to do it for a paycheck, but she did write the book, which means she was as subject to human emotions like anger and vengeance and maybe even regret as the rest of us mere mortals. Diana aint no saint.

[floyjoy678]

Tommy is an interesting factor in the story. If you pay attention to the approximate time he and Flo get together, it basically corresponds with her going off the rails. Now I'm not explicitly saying that Tommy was the cause of anything. I'm just saying it's an interesting point of fact that these two events happen around the same time. So someone like me starts to ponder if things may have played out differently with Tommy not in the picture. Would things have been different if Flo had a guy that was the opposite of Tommy? No one has these answers, of course, but it's something to think about.

I've wondered that as well actually. According to Mary, Flo and Tommy got serious during the Orient Tour. She also said that's when things in the group really began to crack...

[reese]

Tommy is an interesting factor in the story. If you pay attention to the approximate time he and Flo get together, it basically corresponds with her going off the rails. Now I'm not explicitly saying that Tommy was the cause of anything. I'm just saying it's an interesting point of fact that these two events happen around the same time. So someone like me starts to ponder if things may have played out differently with Tommy not in the picture. Would things have been different if Flo had a guy that was the opposite of Tommy? No one has these answers, of course, but it's something to think about.

In his book, Smokey wrote that Tommy "messed with her [[Flo's) mind," pushing her off track and convincing her there was more money to be made outside of Motown.

[marv2]

Saying she should have slapped Flo across the face to knock some sense into her doesn’t strike me as admiration. But apparently Ross has been abusive as well. Didnt she slap Berry across the face dying filming of Mahogany?

She did, but scorn for doing something like that is reserved only for Pedro Ferrer........

[luke]

Good point. I didnt know that getting physical with people was considered positive behavior. I don’t believe in putting my hands on people I care about or in general per comments above. Big difference between wanting to and doing it! Diana has a history alledgedly of doing just that per Motown books.

[marv2]

Good point. I didnt know that assaulting people was considered positive behavior.

Only to those that have a very warped sense of reality and morality!

[marv2]

Have to agree. It was such a let down and came through as somewhat phony and boring. She has a story. She just doesn't want to tell it like it is. It hit the budget tables very quickly back then. And that cover...pure tacky. I know Tina Turner posed for a similar photo but Diana Ross? No. Her attempt at becoming some sex symbol backfired, but hey, there are worse.

That book was awful. I quickly gave it away to my sister. About a year later I saw it in her basement thrown behind a bunch of other books outside of her laundry room.

[luke]

There was an off Broadway play that read excerpts from over the top celebrity bios to gales of laughter. They must have read Diana’s! “ My hair is a huge responsibility!”

[Roberta75]

Saying she should have slapped Flo across the face to knock some sense into her doesn’t strike me as admiration. But apparently Ross has been abusive as well. Didnt she slap Berry across the face dying filming of Mahogany?

Now you know she slap Mr Gordys face so your just stirring the pot AGAIN to get a pat on the head or ass from your Gal Pal.

[RanRan79]

I've wondered that as well actually. According to Mary, Flo and Tommy got serious during the Orient Tour. She also said that's when things in the group really began to crack...

Yeah. I guess one could make the argument that Tommy was a symptom rather than the actual problem. Had she not begun tiptoeing into spiraling out of control, would she have given the brotha the time of day in the first place? Who knows.

[RanRan79]

In his book, Smokey wrote that Tommy "messed with her [[Flo's) mind," pushing her off track and convincing her there was more money to be made outside of Motown.

I remember that, but I didn't buy it. I think he also said something along the lines of Flo thought she could be bigger on her on, or something to that effect. Other than Smokey's statement, I don't think anyone has ever accused Florence of thinking she was bigger than the group or that she didn't need the group. Seems to me it was the contrary: everything that was bothering her was that the group was shaping up to become a springboard for Diana Ross at the expense of Flo and Mary, which made them less of a group, and Flo didn't think it was fair. I'm betting if anything, Tommy was in her ear encouraging her to allow her emotions to rule over good sense. I also believe he pushed her into pursuing a solo deal as early as she did. After everything she had just been through, I suspect Flo would've been content to take a breather. After being fired, she had to go through the ordeal of fighting for the best release agreement as she could, which surely was stressful. She gets that release and then almost immediately she's at ABC. She needed a break, but I'm betting that Tommy wanted to get as much money out of Flo as he could, and on top of that, he was probably one of those dudes who always wanted to be a big shot and he got the chance to play the role by telling people he was managing his wife, which sounds a whole lot more big time than saying he's a chauffeur. Dude was a loser.

[RanRan79]

She did, but scorn for doing something like that is reserved only for Pedro Ferrer........

Pedro Ferrer was a man who beat the shit out of his wife for doing things as innocent as attending concerts and chastising his siblings. Help me understand how that is on the same level as Diana Ross saying she wanted to shake Florence?

[RanRan79]

Good point. I didnt know that getting physical with people was considered positive behavior. I don’t believe in putting my hands on people I care about or in general per comments above. Big difference between wanting to and doing it! Diana has a history alledgedly of doing just that per Motown books.

It's not positive behavior, which is why we were all speaking figuratively and not literally. But as you said yourself, "big difference between wanting to and doing it". Diana said she wanted to shake Florence. I fail to understand why you have a problem with that? Would you rather she had said she didn't give a shit what happened to Florence? Never mind, you probably would.

Interesting, you were radio silent when Marv suggested last week that Mary Wilson beat Diana Ross' ass. Crickets.

[RanRan79]

Now you know she slap Mr Gordys face so your just stirring the pot AGAIN to get a pat on the head or ass from your Gal Pal.

^^^^^^^Mmm hmmm^^^^^^^^

[jim aka jtigre99]

<Sigh> I believe in Mary's book Supreme Faith she stated that Diana had said she wanted to shake Florence and Mary said she understood that because after the years she had left the Supremes that Flo seemed to not be able to get on with her life. I think Diana was speaking figuratively that she just wanted Florence to just get up and reach for her potential. I think both Diana and Mary were saying that out of love for her and frustration that they couldn't help fix it for their friend. At least, that is my observation.

[marv2]

<Sigh> I believe in Mary's book Supreme Faith she stated that Diana had said she wanted to shake Florence and Mary said she understood that because after the years she had left the Supremes that Flo seemed to not be able to get on with her life. I think Diana was speaking figuratively that she just wanted Florence to just get up and reach for her potential. I think both Diana and Mary were saying that out of love for her and frustration that they couldn't help fix it for their friend. At least, that is my observation.

Nope, none of what you said is true. Diana Ross made her inappropriate comments the week after Florence Ballard died while people were still in mourning. Do I have to dig out her exact quote one more time? Also, Mary Wilson never said no shit like that ever. She never said she understood what Diane meant or anything else associated with this subject. To be frank, she was pissed by what was said.

[midnightman]

Pedro and Tommy...

Talk about two peas in a pod. :[[

[midnightman]

<Sigh> I believe in Mary's book Supreme Faith she stated that Diana had said she wanted to shake Florence and Mary said she understood that because after the years she had left the Supremes that Flo seemed to not be able to get on with her life. I think Diana was speaking figuratively that she just wanted Florence to just get up and reach for her potential. I think both Diana and Mary were saying that out of love for her and frustration that they couldn't help fix it for their friend. At least, that is my observation.

Florence got to the point in the early 70s that she felt Diana and Mary both turned on her. So she was always suspicious and her alcoholism didn't make it any better. :/

[blackguy69]

That wasn’t in Mary’s book it was what Diana had said
<Sigh> I believe in Mary's book Supreme Faith she stated that Diana had said she wanted to shake Florence and Mary said she understood that because after the years she had left the Supremes that Flo seemed to not be able to get on with her life. I think Diana was speaking figuratively that she just wanted Florence to just get up and reach for her potential. I think both Diana and Mary were saying that out of love for her and frustration that they couldn't help fix it for their friend. At least, that is my observation.

[marv2]

Florence was far more honest than Diane in every regard.....


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fUwg2xW6PGM

[Roberta75]

Florence was far more honest than Diane in every regard.....


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fUwg2xW6PGM

Sit all the way down and take your meds Missy. Its Diane Diane Diane Diane Diane Diane Diane Diane Diane Diane Diane Diane Diane 24/7 365 days a year but you said:

"Originally Posted by marv2 https://ci6.googleusercontent.com/proxy/DXTsS3zXvP_SNdXEEr8wHGQVQ5_qF3U_4CZN2tq-Hc6Hw7tqm2yH5g5QDCTlCmzYEQiO-Ugf3WuNfa0enZ9eBNT9A1H5Fwb7hi88bn5P=s0-d-e1-ft#http://soulfuldetroit.com/images/buttons/viewpost-right.png [[http://soulfuldetroit.com/showthread.php?p=353706#post353706) October 2016
I don't even go into most Diana Ross threads on here."

[RanRan79]

Nope, none of what you said is true. Diana Ross made her inappropriate comments the week after Florence Ballard died while people were still in mourning. Do I have to dig out her exact quote one more time? Also, Mary Wilson never said no shit like that ever. She never said she understood what Diane meant or anything else associated with this subject. To be frank, she was pissed by what was said.

No, you don't have to dig out her quote, let me do it for you.

"If I'd known how it was going to end with Florence, maybe I would have taken up more time with her, fought her more, even though she didn't want my help...But she got to be a pain in the ass and I said 'Oh forget it!' Maybe I should have slapped her face a few times...She was just one of those people you want to grab and shake and yell, 'Get your fucking life together!'" [[Chicago Tribune Magazine June 20, 1976.)

So Luke was right that Diana did say "slap". Marv was wrong, or straight up lying, saying that she said it a week after Florence died. But if you thought that was all, check this out. I got another quote for ya and I can't wait for Marv and Luke's response to it. Here ya go:

"I wanted to shake her and scream, 'Wake up Flo!'" Mary Wilson, Dreamgirl: My Life As A Supreme, page 244.

I guess Marv is hoping to follow in Mary's footsteps. Florence said that she'd rather deal with Diane because she's honest, which Mary isn't always. Damn Marv, that's devotion.

[RanRan79]

Florence got to the point in the early 70s that she felt Diana and Mary both turned on her. So she was always suspicious and her alcoholism didn't make it any better. :/

Flo felt that way before the 70s. But yeah, alcoholism messes with your brain like any other addiction. It can make you paranoid and distrustful. I think both Diana and Mary wanted Flo to succeed and be happy post Supremes, but neither of them were equipped to do a thing about it really. Mary criticizes Flo's family in her second book, characterizing them as basically being fair weather family. I think Mary refused to acknowledge that if she, Flo's friend who lived a thousand miles away and only saw Flo once a year, could be frustrated by Flo's situation, her family there 365 days were probably a million times more frustrated. It's very hard on a family when one of them has mental issues, or addiction issues, or just plain aint doing right. I know the Ballards had to be tired.

[jim aka jtigre99]

Nope, none of what you said is true. Diana Ross made her inappropriate comments the week after Florence Ballard died while people were still in mourning. Do I have to dig out her exact quote one more time? Also, Mary Wilson never said no shit like that ever. She never said she understood what Diane meant or anything else associated with this subject. To be frank, she was pissed by what was said.
On page 190 in Supreme Faith, Mary wrote Diane had made a statement that she wanted to shake Florence. She had been widely criticized for saying that, BUT I UNDERSTOOD HOW SHE FELT. Eight years after she'd left the group, Flo still couldn't get on with her life.
I knew I read something to that effect on what I wrote.

[captainjames]

Mary and Diana loved Florence and never wanted to see what happen to her the way it did. Actually, when Diana said what she did I believe she was just being plain honest and hurt and mad at the same time. What happen Flo back then was Taboo and not many folks knew how to handle this. To criticize Diana or Mary is really unfair because no one knew what they had to put up with and at the same time understand what was going on with Flo.

Personally, when I lost my brother years ago I said some things that I still remember and I didn't know then what I know now and my only thoughts then was I was never going to see him again. I was bitter, angry, sad, and hurt and now I understand that all those feelings were towards me not him. Why couldn't I save him ? Why couldn't I help ? We were young and I thought we would live forever or at least not something like this.

Flo had a lot of so called friends and Motown family afterwards which shall remain nameless at this point but I did not see any of them rushing to her aid to help. WE WERE NOT THERE !!! so looking from the outside does not give you the true circumstances or picture of what was going on.

[RanRan79]

On page 190 in Supreme Faith, Mary wrote Diane had made a statement that she wanted to shake Florence. She had been widely criticized for saying that, BUT I UNDERSTOOD HOW SHE FELT. Eight years after she'd left the group, Flo still couldn't get on with her life.
I knew I read something to that effect on what I wrote.

Thanks Jim! When you mentioned it in your previous post, instantly I remembered exactly what you were talking about. Unlike some people *cough* Marv *cough*:p I wanted to source it exactly. But when I pulled out the book and searched for it, I didn't find it because apparently I kept looking at the passages around her death. I should have been more thorough. In any case, thanks for sourcing it.

[RanRan79]

Mary and Diana loved Florence and never wanted to see what happen to her the way it did. Actually, when Diana said what she did I believe she was just being plain honest and hurt and mad at the same time. What happen Flo back then was Taboo and not many folks knew how to handle this. To criticize Diana or Mary is really unfair because no one knew what they had to put up with and at the same time understand what was going on with Flo.

Personally, when I lost my brother years ago I said some things that I still remember and I didn't know then what I know now and my only thoughts then was I was never going to see him again. I was bitter, angry, sad, and hurt and now I understand that all those feelings were towards me not him. Why couldn't I save him ? Why couldn't I help ? We were young and I thought we would live forever or at least not something like this.

Flo had a lot of so called friends and Motown family afterwards which shall remain nameless at this point but I did not see any of them rushing to her aid to help. WE WERE NOT THERE !!! so looking from the outside does not give you the true circumstances or picture of what was going on.

Sorry about your brother Cap. I think most people can empathize with your words surrounding the situation. The problem is that for a couple people in this forum, Diana Ross [[and for some others, Mary Wilson, and even Flo Ballard) are not allowed to have human emotions and reactions. I once posted before that the Supremes were not super heroes. They were mortals like ourselves. They were ill, they were hungry, they were heartbroken, they were sad, they were mad, they put on their pants one leg at a time, just like the rest of us. Why a standard for some and not for all will never make sense to me.

[floyjoy678]

Sorry about your brother Cap. I think most people can empathize with your words surrounding the situation. The problem is that for a couple people in this forum, Diana Ross [[and for some others, Mary Wilson, and even Flo Ballard) are not allowed to have human emotions and reactions. I once posted before that the Supremes were not super heroes. They were mortals like ourselves. They were ill, they were hungry, they were heartbroken, they were sad, they were mad, they put on their pants one leg at a time, just like the rest of us. Why a standard for some and not for all will never make sense to me.

You know what's funny is I've been thinking that lately when I watch clips of the group. Before when I'd watch and it looked like one of them wasn't happy I'd automatically assume there was some drama between them. Now I'm like well maybe Flo found out her crush was married or maybe Diana was pissed because whoever was next to her hotel room the night before was being too loud.

[Roberta75]

Mary and Diana loved Florence and never wanted to see what happen to her the way it did. Actually, when Diana said what she did I believe she was just being plain honest and hurt and mad at the same time. What happen Flo back then was Taboo and not many folks knew how to handle this. To criticize Diana or Mary is really unfair because no one knew what they had to put up with and at the same time understand what was going on with Flo.

Personally, when I lost my brother years ago I said some things that I still remember and I didn't know then what I know now and my only thoughts then was I was never going to see him again. I was bitter, angry, sad, and hurt and now I understand that all those feelings were towards me not him. Why couldn't I save him ? Why couldn't I help ? We were young and I thought we would live forever or at least not something like this.

Flo had a lot of so called friends and Motown family afterwards which shall remain nameless at this point but I did not see any of them rushing to her aid to help. WE WERE NOT THERE !!! so looking from the outside does not give you the true circumstances or picture of what was going on.

So sorry about your brother Captain. God bless you.

[RanRan79]

You know what's funny is I've been thinking that lately when I watch clips of the group. Before when I'd watch and it looked like one of them wasn't happy I'd automatically assume there was some drama between them. Now I'm like well maybe Flo found out her crush was married or maybe Diana was pissed because whoever was next to her hotel room the night before was being too loud.

Yes! And because there's so much sitting out there about the negative moments in the group's history, so many fans, from the diehards to the casual, watch those performances, and even interviews, and read so much into every look, movement and sound. They really believe these ladies were having knock down drag outs every single day.

[Roberta75]

Yes! And because there's so much sitting out there about the negative moments in the group's history, so many fans, from the diehards to the casual, watch those performances, and even interviews, and read so much into every look, movement and sound. They really believe these ladies were having knock down drag outs every single day.

They want to believe that. Theres one that seriously fantasizes about Flo beating Diane. LOL These are negative people with holes in there lives imo. Its real sad imo.

[marv2]

On page 190 in Supreme Faith, Mary wrote Diane had made a statement that she wanted to shake Florence. She had been widely criticized for saying that, BUT I UNDERSTOOD HOW SHE FELT. Eight years after she'd left the group, Flo still couldn't get on with her life.
I knew I read something to that effect on what I wrote.

She said she wanted to slap the Florence and tell her to get her fucking life together. This coming from a woman that was a source of most of her misery.......!

[marv2]

THE SPARROW SINGS A SONG OF NARCISSISM

https://buffalonews.com/news/the-sparrow-sings-a-song-of-narcissism/article_596ad3c9-8865-5675-bf33-054b3716c4fa.html

[Ollie9]

I can’t view this. It says due to legal reasons.

[marv2]

I can’t view this. It says due to legal reasons.

Darn it Ollie! Let me try to copy and paste the body of the text for you:

When it comes to ego, there ain't no mountain high enough to top Diana Ross'.

In her new autobiography, the singer rambles on about her own greatness and offers a vacuous pop philosophy usually found on the back of tea bags. For example:

"My love and appreciation of humanity and life extends to all people."

"I have to be Diana Ross, the performer, the star, not Diana the human being . . . "

"For a public figure, enduring unfounded criticism is a necessary evil."

"Success is not all that it's cracked up to be."

"If you ever get lonely, travel. If you can't afford the trip, rip out pictures in magazines and pretend."

My personal favorite, when Ross tried to quell a riot at her live performance in Central Park, she shouted to the unruly crowd: "Do you love me? Do you love me? If you love me, get out of the g------ park!"

Ross is self-serving, petty and vain, but she commits a bigger sin in her celebrity autobiography: She's boring.

The best piece of sleaze from "Secrets of a Sparrow" came out when Ross recently appeared on "The Oprah Winfrey Show." The former Supreme told Winfrey that her eldest daughter, Rhonda Suzanne, 22, was the love child of a romance with her former Motown mentor Berry Gordy.
"I don't really say this in the book," Ross said. "Rhonda has two fathers. Bob [[Silberstein, Ross' first husband) raised her . . . yet Berry Gordy is her father."

All right, if Ross is going to save the juicy stuff for Oprah Winfrey, why plunk down 22 bucks for her new book? After all, there's not much else between the covers except for glossy, soft-focus photographs of the Queen Supreme.

This book is so self-centered and goofy, it's difficult to read without laughing out loud.

But she does dish out dirt about those who have offended or upstaged her.

For example, Ross mercilessly lashes out at the late Florence Ballard, an original Supreme who left the group, went broke, and died of a heart attack in 1976.

Ballard, Mary Wilson and Ross came out of a Detroit housing project, and beginning in 1964 recorded a remarkable string of hits as the Supremes.

Ross, with her elegant beauty and lilting voice, was the lead singer in a female trio that became the dominant Motown act of the '60s with hits such as "Where Did Our Love Go," "Baby Love," "Come See About Me," "Stop in the Name of Love," "Reflections" and "Someday We'll Be Together."

The Supremes sold tens of millions of records, but in 1968 Ballard was tossed out of the group. "Florence was . . . an angry woman who drank too much and wouldn't take responsibility for herself," Ross writes.


She also zaps Mary Wilson: "The girls had treated me very badly. They had gone against me with a vengeance."

Ross went solo in 1970, but the old wounds were painfully reopened in 1976 when Ross showed up at Ballard's funeral. Ross created a media circus and tried to run the show, which angered Ballard's relatives.

"I tried to take charge. I guess it's my nature," Ross writes. "I finally gave up. I didn't go to the cemetery. I just got into my car feeling terrible and went home to grieve alone."

Mary Wilson later blasted Ross in her autobiography.

"I loved Mary," Ross writes in her usual Hallmark-card prose. "I have forgiven Mary . . . but I had to allow our friendship to fade away."

Ross similarly dismisses her first two husbands but claims that main squeeze No. 3 -- multimillionaire industrialist Arne Naess -- is peachy keen.

"After the wedding we went on a honeymoon to Tahiti; Arne owns an island near there," Ross writes. "It's very small but completely private, and we were like Adam and Eve, running around naked. All I can say is we were very, very happy."

Diana Ross at 49 still looks stunning and retains an alluring singing voice. Her rise to wealth and fame, while raising five children, should be an inspirational story.

Unfortunately, all that is secondary to this book's real story: Diana Ross' unending love affair with herself.

Review

Secrets of a Sparrow

By Diana Ross

Villard Books

288 pages, $22.

[Ollie9]

Darn it Ollie! Let me try to copy and paste the body of the text for you:

When it comes to ego, there ain't no mountain high enough to top Diana Ross'.

In her new autobiography, the singer rambles on about her own greatness and offers a vacuous pop philosophy usually found on the back of tea bags. For example:

"My love and appreciation of humanity and life extends to all people."

"I have to be Diana Ross, the performer, the star, not Diana the human being . . . "

"For a public figure, enduring unfounded criticism is a necessary evil."

"Success is not all that it's cracked up to be."

"If you ever get lonely, travel. If you can't afford the trip, rip out pictures in magazines and pretend."

My personal favorite, when Ross tried to quell a riot at her live performance in Central Park, she shouted to the unruly crowd: "Do you love me? Do you love me? If you love me, get out of the g------ park!"

Ross is self-serving, petty and vain, but she commits a bigger sin in her celebrity autobiography: She's boring.

The best piece of sleaze from "Secrets of a Sparrow" came out when Ross recently appeared on "The Oprah Winfrey Show." The former Supreme told Winfrey that her eldest daughter, Rhonda Suzanne, 22, was the love child of a romance with her former Motown mentor Berry Gordy.
"I don't really say this in the book," Ross said. "Rhonda has two fathers. Bob [[Silberstein, Ross' first husband) raised her . . . yet Berry Gordy is her father."

All right, if Ross is going to save the juicy stuff for Oprah Winfrey, why plunk down 22 bucks for her new book? After all, there's not much else between the covers except for glossy, soft-focus photographs of the Queen Supreme.

This book is so self-centered and goofy, it's difficult to read without laughing out loud.

But she does dish out dirt about those who have offended or upstaged her.

For example, Ross mercilessly lashes out at the late Florence Ballard, an original Supreme who left the group, went broke, and died of a heart attack in 1976.

Ballard, Mary Wilson and Ross came out of a Detroit housing project, and beginning in 1964 recorded a remarkable string of hits as the Supremes.

Ross, with her elegant beauty and lilting voice, was the lead singer in a female trio that became the dominant Motown act of the '60s with hits such as "Where Did Our Love Go," "Baby Love," "Come See About Me," "Stop in the Name of Love," "Reflections" and "Someday We'll Be Together."

The Supremes sold tens of millions of records, but in 1968 Ballard was tossed out of the group. "Florence was . . . an angry woman who drank too much and wouldn't take responsibility for herself," Ross writes.


She also zaps Mary Wilson: "The girls had treated me very badly. They had gone against me with a vengeance."

Ross went solo in 1970, but the old wounds were painfully reopened in 1976 when Ross showed up at Ballard's funeral. Ross created a media circus and tried to run the show, which angered Ballard's relatives.

"I tried to take charge. I guess it's my nature," Ross writes. "I finally gave up. I didn't go to the cemetery. I just got into my car feeling terrible and went home to grieve alone."

Mary Wilson later blasted Ross in her autobiography.

"I loved Mary," Ross writes in her usual Hallmark-card prose. "I have forgiven Mary . . . but I had to allow our friendship to fade away."

Ross similarly dismisses her first two husbands but claims that main squeeze No. 3 -- multimillionaire industrialist Arne Naess -- is peachy keen.

"After the wedding we went on a honeymoon to Tahiti; Arne owns an island near there," Ross writes. "It's very small but completely private, and we were like Adam and Eve, running around naked. All I can say is we were very, very happy."

Diana Ross at 49 still looks stunning and retains an alluring singing voice. Her rise to wealth and fame, while raising five children, should be an inspirational story.

Unfortunately, all that is secondary to this book's real story: Diana Ross' unending love affair with herself.

Review

Secrets of a Sparrow

By Diana Ross

Villard Books

288 pages, $22.

Many thanks. Will read it tomorrow as I am now off to bed.

[marv2]

Many thanks. Will read it tomorrow as I am now off to bed.

Ok, you're welcome.

[Roberta75]

Darn it Ollie! Let me try to copy and paste the body of the text for you:

When it comes to ego, there ain't no mountain high enough to top Diana Ross'.

In her new autobiography, the singer rambles on about her own greatness and offers a vacuous pop philosophy usually found on the back of tea bags. For example:

"My love and appreciation of humanity and life extends to all people."

"I have to be Diana Ross, the performer, the star, not Diana the human being . . . "

"For a public figure, enduring unfounded criticism is a necessary evil."

"Success is not all that it's cracked up to be."

"If you ever get lonely, travel. If you can't afford the trip, rip out pictures in magazines and pretend."

My personal favorite, when Ross tried to quell a riot at her live performance in Central Park, she shouted to the unruly crowd: "Do you love me? Do you love me? If you love me, get out of the g------ park!"

Ross is self-serving, petty and vain, but she commits a bigger sin in her celebrity autobiography: She's boring.

The best piece of sleaze from "Secrets of a Sparrow" came out when Ross recently appeared on "The Oprah Winfrey Show." The former Supreme told Winfrey that her eldest daughter, Rhonda Suzanne, 22, was the love child of a romance with her former Motown mentor Berry Gordy.
"I don't really say this in the book," Ross said. "Rhonda has two fathers. Bob [[Silberstein, Ross' first husband) raised her . . . yet Berry Gordy is her father."

All right, if Ross is going to save the juicy stuff for Oprah Winfrey, why plunk down 22 bucks for her new book? After all, there's not much else between the covers except for glossy, soft-focus photographs of the Queen Supreme.

This book is so self-centered and goofy, it's difficult to read without laughing out loud.

But she does dish out dirt about those who have offended or upstaged her.

For example, Ross mercilessly lashes out at the late Florence Ballard, an original Supreme who left the group, went broke, and died of a heart attack in 1976.

Ballard, Mary Wilson and Ross came out of a Detroit housing project, and beginning in 1964 recorded a remarkable string of hits as the Supremes.

Ross, with her elegant beauty and lilting voice, was the lead singer in a female trio that became the dominant Motown act of the '60s with hits such as "Where Did Our Love Go," "Baby Love," "Come See About Me," "Stop in the Name of Love," "Reflections" and "Someday We'll Be Together."

The Supremes sold tens of millions of records, but in 1968 Ballard was tossed out of the group. "Florence was . . . an angry woman who drank too much and wouldn't take responsibility for herself," Ross writes.


She also zaps Mary Wilson: "The girls had treated me very badly. They had gone against me with a vengeance."

Ross went solo in 1970, but the old wounds were painfully reopened in 1976 when Ross showed up at Ballard's funeral. Ross created a media circus and tried to run the show, which angered Ballard's relatives.

"I tried to take charge. I guess it's my nature," Ross writes. "I finally gave up. I didn't go to the cemetery. I just got into my car feeling terrible and went home to grieve alone."

Mary Wilson later blasted Ross in her autobiography.

"I loved Mary," Ross writes in her usual Hallmark-card prose. "I have forgiven Mary . . . but I had to allow our friendship to fade away."

Ross similarly dismisses her first two husbands but claims that main squeeze No. 3 -- multimillionaire industrialist Arne Naess -- is peachy keen.

"After the wedding we went on a honeymoon to Tahiti; Arne owns an island near there," Ross writes. "It's very small but completely private, and we were like Adam and Eve, running around naked. All I can say is we were very, very happy."

Diana Ross at 49 still looks stunning and retains an alluring singing voice. Her rise to wealth and fame, while raising five children, should be an inspirational story.

Unfortunately, all that is secondary to this book's real story: Diana Ross' unending love affair with herself.

Review

Secrets of a Sparrow

By Diana Ross

Villard Books

288 pages, $22.

This ones got more files on Diane Ross than J Edgar Hoover had on the entire Kennedy family. LMFAO Hehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehe.

[BobbyC]

Man sometimes I wonder if these people actually read that book. DR did not go "viciously" after Florence Ballard. I thought, if anything, DR was generous. She was also pretty neutral on Mary, too, giving her some compliments along the way. I think DR was just as hurt as the other two and spoke hjonestly about that which is no different than Mary speaking up about how she felt. The rest of this review was spot on, but still...

[jobeterob]

Now you know she slap Mr Gordys face so your just stirring the pot AGAIN to get a pat on the head or ass from your Gal Pal.

She’s a comic too!

Wicked fun Roberta!

[midnightman]

LOL I loved "Moonwalker" as a kid because, well, it was Michael Jackson. During the 80s and early to mid 90s, Michael could've mixed shit and Cheerios, packaged them up and sold them as Shitty-O's, and I would've damn near cut my mama to get a box. But I haven't read the book since it was a new release. On the other hand, about 9 years ago I watched the Moonwalker movie for the first time in probably 20 years and was shocked to discover that I was bored out of my mind through most of it. Back in the day we watched that damn movie so much that I could recite it line for line. I guess one had to be a kid to appreciate it. I'm curious now about how I might view the book any differently today.

Yeah I was like that too. I watched Moonwalker at 4/5 years old and it seemed like the greatest thing ever. Watched it again as a grown up [[after MJ died) and I changed the channel. It was THAT boring [[Captain EO was actually much worse lol).

But that book, it was like reading those short music biography books at my elementary school lol

[midnightman]

Of course Diana was probably speaking figuratively rather than literally. But I think most people get the sentiment.

Apparently Flo intimidated a lot of people. I think it was Martha Reeves who said Flo had a way of looking at someone that made it clear she wasn't one to tangle with. But yet so many folks who knew her speak so highly of her. So I don't think it was Flo walking around like she was Miss Tough Stuff as much as it was her having an air about her that said "Don't try me".

But I would've loved a front row seat to whatever was going down that night between Lala Brooks and Diana and Flo. No lie. Lol

I'm still imagining how that fight between Diana, the other Supremes and Brian Holland's wife [[the name escapes me) went down. *eating popcorn* Florence allegedly said from one of the books, "you don't wanna know how many times I had to save Diane from all those fights" or something to that effect. The original Supremes were a trip, which is why I love them so much over the other pairings lol

DMF for life!

[midnightman]

Yes! And because there's so much sitting out there about the negative moments in the group's history, so many fans, from the diehards to the casual, watch those performances, and even interviews, and read so much into every look, movement and sound. They really believe these ladies were having knock down drag outs every single day.

They overdramatize everything especially when it's a group of BLACK WOMEN. Like three black women are only good for drama and nothing else. Like we're supposed to pretend that at one point, they weren't best friends/almost close to a family at one point.

I mean you have three young ladies from very different backgrounds: Flo was one of fifteen from a large family under humble means, Mary came from a broken home and Diana was competing in a middle class family that felt favored her elder sister over her while dealing with a father that was at best neutral to her.

When these three came together under the suggestion of Milton Jenkins, their love of music bonded them closer than any family could [[though Florence was more of a family woman than the other two). They were very different, yes: Mary wanted to be rich and famous, Diana wanted to be a huge superstar and Florence just wanted to sing, but I don't buy any claims that they were always fighting. That was surely not true in the early years and through the struggling Motown years and when they started to become world famous. Things didn't change until after 1965 and it was a gradual thing. And by then, success had in a way separated them. As Flo told Peter Benjaminson, they stopped hanging out at some point and all three were given separate hotel rooms [[whereas in the past they shared hotel rooms), and they would only see each other at the dressing room before the show [[Flo said that her, Mary and Diana were FORCED to be split).

I think when that happened, that was the beginning of the tensions that eventually led a despondent, alcoholic Florence to lash out and force Berry to fire her just as they were becoming a fixture in Vegas in July '67. But even in those years, they were still friends and Flo looked out for both Mary and Diana. Flo was the one to confront Berry about Diana collapsing in Boston and consoled her.

Bottom line: they were close. They fought, yes, but so do sisters and sometimes they can clash as well, the Supremes weren't unique in that regard. You do know that the Beatles were beefing like mad when they split up in 1970 but no one wants to talk about that because... well you know...

[midnightman]

On page 190 in Supreme Faith, Mary wrote Diane had made a statement that she wanted to shake Florence. She had been widely criticized for saying that, BUT I UNDERSTOOD HOW SHE FELT. Eight years after she'd left the group, Flo still couldn't get on with her life.
I knew I read something to that effect on what I wrote.

Mary has said often how she and Diana wanted to help Florence but sometimes Flo pushed away. That was definitely true when Mary asked Flo to rejoin the Supremes in 1974 and she rolled her eyes at Mary telling her, "I'm not interested in singing anymore." That was a year before she begun to make the comeback that wasn't meant to be. Florence was still on speaking terms with both of her former Supremes partners at the time of her death.

[Ollie9]

Mary has said often how she and Diana wanted to help Florence but sometimes Flo pushed away. That was definitely true when Mary asked Flo to rejoin the Supremes in 1974 and she rolled her eyes at Mary telling her, "I'm not interested in singing anymore." That was a year before she begun to make the comeback that wasn't meant to be. Florence was still on speaking terms with both of her former Supremes partners at the time of her death.

Was that a definite, concrete offer for Florence to rejoin the Supremes midnight?? I can’t imagine Gordy would have gone for that.
The review of the book is a little OTT for me . We all know that Diana can be a diva, but come on. Viciously attacked Florence my ass. I agree with some of the things mentioned in the book. The philosophy quotes for one are a ‘tad humorous and cannot possibly be taken seriously.
Overall i didn’t think the book was that bad. Not great, but I have most certainly read a lot worse.

[captainjames]

Yes! And because there's so much sitting out there about the negative moments in the group's history, so many fans, from the diehards to the casual, watch those performances, and even interviews, and read so much into every look, movement and sound. They really believe these ladies were having knock down drag outs every single day.

Ran,
Actually if you listen to the recordings of Flo by Peter Benjamin she is asked about fights in the group and her response was it was no more than sister arguments. Florence had no reason to lie about this. Of course the recordings didn't come out until all the so called books had been written.

[midnightman]

Was that a definite, concrete offer for Florence to rejoin the Supremes midnight?? I can’t imagine Gordy would have gone for that.
The review of the book is a little OTT for me . We all know that Diana can be a diva, but come on. Viciously attacked Florence my ass. I agree with some of the things mentioned in the book. The philosophy quotes for one are a ‘tad humorous and cannot possibly be taken seriously.
Overall i didn’t think the book was that bad. Not great, but I have most certainly read a lot worse.

IDK. According to Mary, she wanted to bring Flo back to the group, Flo just turned her down flat.

[midnightman]

Ran,
Actually if you listen to the recordings of Flo by Peter Benjamin she is asked about fights in the group and her response was it was no more than sister arguments. Florence had no reason to lie about this. Of course the recordings didn't come out until all the so called books had been written.

I also notice some YouTubers only uploaded the moments where there was drama but not the ones where she talked about the good times. It's like you can tell people had their own agendas to rewrite the history of the group. I got swept up in it when YouTube was first created and some Supremes fans [[or a fan of a particular Supreme, at the time, it was more of the "Flo" fans), but Flo's full tapes show a far different Supremes story than what one was expecting.

[RanRan79]

She said she wanted to slap the Florence and tell her to get her fucking life together. This coming from a woman that was a source of most of her misery.......!

And Mary said she wanted to shake her, and Mary said she understood how Diana felt. Why isn't Mary being criticized? You and Luke had so much to say about Diana and the rest of us and then when confronted with sourced quotes of Mary's own words...crickets. Could Mary shoot somebody in the middle of Fifth Avenue and you and Luke still remain silent?

[RanRan79]

This ones got more files on Diane Ross than J Edgar Hoover had on the entire Kennedy family. LMFAO Hehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehe.

No reason to speculate what his internet history looks like.

[RanRan79]

Yeah I was like that too. I watched Moonwalker at 4/5 years old and it seemed like the greatest thing ever. Watched it again as a grown up [[after MJ died) and I changed the channel. It was THAT boring [[Captain EO was actually much worse lol).

But that book, it was like reading those short music biography books at my elementary school lol

Yeah, Captain EO was bad. I haven't seen it since the mid 90s even though I have it on VHS. I remember watching it then and thinking "yikes". Maybe I should watch it soon and see how I feel.

[RanRan79]

They overdramatize everything especially when it's a group of BLACK WOMEN.

Say it one more time for the people in the back.

As for the Beatles, I do remember someone once saying that Beatles forums make Supremes forums look like Mister Rogers Neighborhood, or something to that effect. However, I don't think there's a Beatles fan alive who allows any of their controversy to stain the overall legacy of the band. Meanwhile, Supremes fans everywhere would rather discuss the controversies than the music itself. Tsk tsk.

[RanRan79]

Mary has said often how she and Diana wanted to help Florence but sometimes Flo pushed away. That was definitely true when Mary asked Flo to rejoin the Supremes in 1974 and she rolled her eyes at Mary telling her, "I'm not interested in singing anymore." That was a year before she begun to make the comeback that wasn't meant to be. Florence was still on speaking terms with both of her former Supremes partners at the time of her death.

I think Mary spoke to Flo about getting it together and getting back to singing, but I don't think Mary ever offered nor entertained the idea of Flo coming back, not at that point. I imagine Mary may have welcomed Flo back into the group when Diana was still in the group, but by the mid 70s, Mary was Queen Bee of that ship and I doubt she would've ever wanted to relinquish that position, either in full or in part, to Flo Ballard. And when Flo finally did decide to give music another shot, I doubt she would've ever been tempted to rejoin the Supremes.

[RanRan79]

The review of the book is a little OTT for me . We all know that Diana can be a diva, but come on. Viciously attacked Florence my ass. I agree with some of the things mentioned in the book. The philosophy quotes for one are a ‘tad humorous and cannot possibly be taken seriously.
Overall i didn’t think the book was that bad. Not great, but I have most certainly read a lot worse.

The reviewer was entitled to see it how he seen it, but personally I found the review reeking of bias. Clearly that was someone who never liked Diana Ross and found the opportunity to lash out. So he had a problem with her saying:

My love and appreciation of humanity and life extends to all people."

"I have to be Diana Ross, the performer, the star, not Diana the human being . . . "

"For a public figure, enduring unfounded criticism is a necessary evil."

Alright. So am I to assume that he would rather she had written:

"My love and appreciation is reserved for a select few people. Everyone and everything else can suck my dick!"

"I am not a human being. I am a performer, a star. I do not have human emotions. I do not cry. I do not eat. I do not sleep. I don't even take a shit. I'm special."

"I'm criticized so much and I think it's unfair and should be outlawed. Maybe one day there will be a president who is elected who believes that criticizing people should be a punishable offense."

That's what I was talking about earlier in the thread. It's like she's not allowed to be human. So Mary can write a book about Diana, stating how she felt about Diana and certain events, but Diana isn't allowed to do the same? What kind of hypocritical shit is that? If the article didn't appear so professional, I might assume it was the work of the member who posted it.

[RanRan79]

Ran,
Actually if you listen to the recordings of Flo by Peter Benjamin she is asked about fights in the group and her response was it was no more than sister arguments. Florence had no reason to lie about this. Of course the recordings didn't come out until all the so called books had been written.

Yeah, I've pointed that out before. Florence had a bunch of sisters so she was obviously an expert at sisterhood. For her to compare a lot of what was going on to the bickering and fighting sisters do when they're with each other almost around the clock, I figured it was probably an accurate statement. But there are some fans who know more about what was going on that Flo did, so...

[reese]

I think Mary spoke to Flo about getting it together and getting back to singing, but I don't think Mary ever offered nor entertained the idea of Flo coming back, not at that point. I imagine Mary may have welcomed Flo back into the group when Diana was still in the group, but by the mid 70s, Mary was Queen Bee of that ship and I doubt she would've ever wanted to relinquish that position, either in full or in part, to Flo Ballard. And when Flo finally did decide to give music another shot, I doubt she would've ever been tempted to rejoin the Supremes.

In SUPREME FAITH, Mary wrote that prior to Flo's visit to LA in 1974, they had spoken a lot. In the back of her mind, she entertained the thought of asking Flo back but she knew Flo still had a lot of issues. She didn't mention actually making an offer. Flo drank a lot during the visit and instead of being angry, now seemed resigned to her fate which killed Mary.

She says the one bright spot of the trip was Flo joining the group onstage at Magic Mountain but a few days later, she returned to Detroit and Mary felt she was lost forever.
In another interview, Cindy spoke of Flo's visit and said that they were encouraging her to get back in the business. I think she might have even mentioned some picnic where they invited some folks to meet Flo. But Flo said something about missing her kids and went back home.

[RanRan79]

I also notice some YouTubers only uploaded the moments where there was drama but not the ones where she talked about the good times. It's like you can tell people had their own agendas to rewrite the history of the group. I got swept up in it when YouTube was first created and some Supremes fans [[or a fan of a particular Supreme, at the time, it was more of the "Flo" fans), but Flo's full tapes show a far different Supremes story than what one was expecting.

Peter Benjaminson himself was full of shit and wanted to paint the picture of an evil, mean Diana Ross, and he set out to do it. I called him on some shit back when the book was released and his responses convinced me he was full of shit from day one. I appreciate that he took the time to document Florence in any way, but I wonder what her thoughts would be if she could read the book or hear his assessment of things today. Don't get me started on him.

[RanRan79]

In SUPREME FAITH, Mary wrote that prior to Flo's visit to LA in 1974, they had spoken a lot. In the back of her mind, she entertained the thought of asking Flo back but she knew Flo still had a lot of issues. She didn't mention actually making an offer. Flo drank a lot during the visit and instead of being angry, now seemed resigned to her fate which killed Mary.

She says the one bright spot of the trip was Flo joining the group onstage at Magic Mountain but a few days later, she returned to Detroit and Mary felt she was lost forever.
In another interview, Cindy spoke of Flo's visit and said that they were encouraging her to get back in the business. I think she might have even mentioned some picnic where they invited some folks to meet Flo. But Flo said something about missing her kids and went back home.

Thanks Reese. I stand corrected. Interesting bit about Cindy. I hadn't heard that before.

[Ollie9]

The reviewer was entitled to see it how he seen it, but personally I found the review reeking of bias. Clearly that was someone who never liked Diana Ross and found the opportunity to lash out. So he had a problem with her saying:

My love and appreciation of humanity and life extends to all people."

"I have to be Diana Ross, the performer, the star, not Diana the human being . . . "

"For a public figure, enduring unfounded criticism is a necessary evil."

Alright. So am I to assume that he would rather she had written:

"My love and appreciation is reserved for a select few people. Everyone and everything else can suck my dick!"

"I am not a human being. I am a performer, a star. I do not have human emotions. I do not cry. I do not eat. I do not sleep. I don't even take a shit. I'm special."

"I'm criticized so much and I think it's unfair and should be outlawed. Maybe one day there will be a president who is elected who believes that criticizing people should be a punishable offense."

That's what I was talking about earlier in the thread. It's like she's not allowed to be human. So Mary can write a book about Diana, stating how she felt about Diana and certain events, but Diana isn't allowed to do the same? What kind of hypocritical shit is that? If the article didn't appear so professional, I might assume it was the work of the member who posted it.

I betcha he also didn’t like her blowing kisses into the audience at Central Park asking them “can you feel me”. He sounds that type. :)

[marv2]

If the article didn't appear so professional, I might assume it was the work of the member who posted it. I posted the article so you are insulting me. You stupid F**ker! You are that stupid and that big of an asshole? You want to insult me, let's arrange for you to do it to my face and not like some punk behind a keyboard, cool? Oh it can be arranged. Diana Ross ain't got you this damned wound up!

[jobeterob]

Well you’ve been insulted 500 other times, deservedly so - so just go back to the hole with Luke and don’t sweat

Maybe watch The Wiz and Lady - have a Diana Day

[marv2]

Well you’ve been insulted 500 other times, deservedly so - so just go back to the hole with Luke and don’t sweat


Maybe watch The Wiz and Lady - have a Diana Day

Drop-dead or just go back to sleep Mr.I Know Nothing and Mr. I Can't Ever Contribute Anything of Value to these Forums because I Don't Know Anything nor Have I Ever Known Anything. Mr. I AM Just Here to Bitch And Try to Start Fights in the Name of a Washed Up Hag".

[RanRan79]

I betcha he also didn’t like her blowing kisses into the audience at Central Park asking them “can you feel me”. He sounds that type. :)

Yup. And he about died when she said "Spreadin love".

[RanRan79]

I posted the article so you are insulting me. You stupid F**ker! You are that stupid and that big of an asshole? You want to insult me, let's arrange for you to do it to my face and not like some punk behind a keyboard, cool? Oh it can be arranged. Diana Ross ain't got you this damned wound up!

If I'm a stupid fucker, yo mama one. Let's just get that out of the way first.

Secondly, why don't you calm down and tell us what's going on my brother. Now over the last few years you and I have had agreements as well as disagreements. You've blocked me and I've blocked you. We've [[obviously) unblocked each other. I've taken my shots at you, you've taken them at me. I know for a fact that I've insulted you waaaayyyyy worst than suggesting you were capable of writing a fake review of a Diana Ross movie, but it's this...this...that has you so mad that you're calling me out of my name and suggesting we have a face to face? I want to assume that this is you having some kind of breakdown.

Now I've always assumed that you were a member of the "sick and shut in" community, unable to leave your home either due to illness or morbid obesity, which would explain why you live in this forum. Of course that's all speculation. But whatever your situation, you will not get me to have a back and forth with you on the internet where we start arguing about what would happen if we came face to face. Let's be honest, of everyone here, you are probably the biggest keyboard warrior around. And I mean "biggest" in every sense of the word.

I will not entertain your childish "I bet you wouldn't say that to my face" nonsense. I realize this is probably a cry for help for you. You're lonely, you want some company, and this is the only way you think you can get someone to come and visit. This aint the way Big Guy. If you want us to show you some love and attention, try to be a little nicer. I bet you have it in you.

Until then...Reach out and touch...

[Roberta75]

If I'm a stupid fucker, yo mama one. Let's just get that out of the way first.

Secondly, why don't you calm down and tell us what's going on my brother. Now over the last few years you and I have had agreements as well as disagreements. You've blocked me and I've blocked you. We've [[obviously) unblocked each other. I've taken my shots at you, you've taken them at me. I know for a fact that I've insulted you waaaayyyyy worst than suggesting you were capable of writing a fake review of a Diana Ross movie, but it's this...this...that has you so mad that you're calling me out of my name and suggesting we have a face to face? I want to assume that this is you having some kind of breakdown.

Now I've always assumed that you were a member of the "sick and shut in" community, unable to leave your home either due to illness or morbid obesity, which would explain why you live in this forum. Of course that's all speculation. But whatever your situation, you will not get me to have a back and forth with you on the internet where we start arguing about what would happen if we came face to face. Let's be honest, of everyone here, you are probably the biggest keyboard warrior around. And I mean "biggest" in every sense of the word.

I will not entertain your childish "I bet you wouldn't say that to my face" nonsense. I realize this is probably a cry for help for you. You're lonely, you want some company, and this is the only way you think you can get someone to come and visit. This aint the way Big Guy. If you want us to show you some love and attention, try to be a little nicer. I bet you have it in you.

Until then...Reach out and touch...

Old Marv thinks hes some kinda tough gal Ida Lupino prison warden RanRan. Hes threatened people here before and always wants to meet on a street corner to duke it out. Hes real pitiful and the only person Diane Ross has got all wound up is his sorry ass. Do you think Miss Ross whos sitting on a quarter billion bucks in a Hollywood Hills mansion gives a hoot what old Marv thinks or says.

[Roberta75]

I posted the article so you are insulting me. You stupid F**ker! You are that stupid and that big of an asshole? You want to insult me, let's arrange for you to do it to my face and not like some punk behind a keyboard, cool? Oh it can be arranged. Diana Ross ain't got you this damned wound up!


Good point. I didnt know that getting physical with people was considered positive behavior. I don’t believe in putting my hands on people I care about or in general per comments above. Big difference between wanting to and doing it! Diana has a history alledgedly of doing just that per Motown books.

Shouldnt you be scolding your Mistress about threatening people with bodily harm Luke? You said you don’t believe in putting my hands on people I care about or in general.

[monicarivers]

Old Marv thinks hes some kinda tough gal Ida Lupino prison warden RanRan. Hes threatened people here before and always wants to meet on a street corner to duke it out. Hes real pitiful and the only person Diane Ross has got all wound up is his sorry ass. Do you think Miss Ross whos sitting on a quarter billion bucks in a Hollywood Hills mansion gives a hoot what old Marv thinks or says.

Now that was some funny sh*t. Ida Lupino LOLOLOLOL! BTW, how much more of this can y'all take? He used a potty mouth name call and also kinda sorta threatened Ran.

[Roberta75]

Peter Benjaminson himself was full of shit and wanted to paint the picture of an evil, mean Diana Ross, and he set out to do it. I called him on some shit back when the book was released and his responses convinced me he was full of shit from day one. I appreciate that he took the time to document Florence in any way, but I wonder what her thoughts would be if she could read the book or hear his assessment of things today. Don't get me started on him.

Remember that scam of a movie he was involved with. Hes just anoyther loser another opportunist cashing in on Flo.

[midnightman]

Flo felt that way before the 70s. But yeah, alcoholism messes with your brain like any other addiction. It can make you paranoid and distrustful. I think both Diana and Mary wanted Flo to succeed and be happy post Supremes, but neither of them were equipped to do a thing about it really. Mary criticizes Flo's family in her second book, characterizing them as basically being fair weather family. I think Mary refused to acknowledge that if she, Flo's friend who lived a thousand miles away and only saw Flo once a year, could be frustrated by Flo's situation, her family there 365 days were probably a million times more frustrated. It's very hard on a family when one of them has mental issues, or addiction issues, or just plain aint doing right. I know the Ballards had to be tired.

Mary was wrong for attacking the Ballards. She should've walked in their shoes to understand what they were going through.

[midnightman]

Yeah, Captain EO was bad. I haven't seen it since the mid 90s even though I have it on VHS. I remember watching it then and thinking "yikes". Maybe I should watch it soon and see how I feel.

I think it's even worse now. I watched it for the first and only time in 1995 on MTV. It was AWFUL. So if it was awful at 11, imagine seeing it while pushing 37! Lol

[midnightman]

Say it one more time for the people in the back.

As for the Beatles, I do remember someone once saying that Beatles forums make Supremes forums look like Mister Rogers Neighborhood, or something to that effect. However, I don't think there's a Beatles fan alive who allows any of their controversy to stain the overall legacy of the band. Meanwhile, Supremes fans everywhere would rather discuss the controversies than the music itself. Tsk tsk.

Yeah you only hear gossip and innuendo and outright hating. Folks don't realize that by attacking Diana, they're destroying the Supremes' legacy and I doubt any of them - Mary, Cindy, Jean, Scherrie, Lynda and Susaye - would like that at all.

[midnightman]

In SUPREME FAITH, Mary wrote that prior to Flo's visit to LA in 1974, they had spoken a lot. In the back of her mind, she entertained the thought of asking Flo back but she knew Flo still had a lot of issues. She didn't mention actually making an offer. Flo drank a lot during the visit and instead of being angry, now seemed resigned to her fate which killed Mary.

She says the one bright spot of the trip was Flo joining the group onstage at Magic Mountain but a few days later, she returned to Detroit and Mary felt she was lost forever.
In another interview, Cindy spoke of Flo's visit and said that they were encouraging her to get back in the business. I think she might have even mentioned some picnic where they invited some folks to meet Flo. But Flo said something about missing her kids and went back home.

I had to go back, I think Mary WAS encouraging her to make a music comeback but Flo wasn't too optimistic about it and that crushed Mary. Flo had said that she probably wouldn't entertain a reunion because of the way the business treated her once they thought [[Motown, not the group) she was "disposable".

[midnightman]

Peter Benjaminson himself was full of shit and wanted to paint the picture of an evil, mean Diana Ross, and he set out to do it. I called him on some shit back when the book was released and his responses convinced me he was full of shit from day one. I appreciate that he took the time to document Florence in any way, but I wonder what her thoughts would be if she could read the book or hear his assessment of things today. Don't get me started on him.

I always thought Peter was smug lol
I hate how he just redid Rick James' book as if he had interviewed him for the book lmfao

Flo would probably be pissed off at him right now for the book.

[Boogiedown]

so what were the 'secrets' of this sparrow that were revealed in this book ??:confused:

[marv2]

so what were the 'secrets' of this sparrow that were revealed in this book ??:confused:

That having a lot of hair is a big responsibility..........

[Ollie9]

that having a lot of hair is a big responsibility..........

lol.......

[RanRan79]

Old Marv thinks hes some kinda tough gal Ida Lupino prison warden RanRan. Hes threatened people here before and always wants to meet on a street corner to duke it out. Hes real pitiful and the only person Diane Ross has got all wound up is his sorry ass. Do you think Miss Ross whos sitting on a quarter billion bucks in a Hollywood Hills mansion gives a hoot what old Marv thinks or says.

I've seen him get downright stupid with some posters, but he usually doesn't do me that way, so I was a bit taken aback. For the record, I haven't had a fight since I was a teenager and I'll be damned if the next one I have is because of a connection to Diana Ross. That's not even something I'm willing to entertain. What a sad individual he has to be to get that riled up over anything going on in this forum. Even when I've been annoyed by, say the racist in the forum, I've never resorted to the suggestion that we meet up. Meet up for what? I don't give that much of a shit about anyone's opinion on the internet. But I guess when you're homebound [[even before Covid) and unable to interact with the public, the goings on in internet land become of increasing importance.

[RanRan79]

Now that was some funny sh*t. Ida Lupino LOLOLOLOL! BTW, how much more of this can y'all take? He used a potty mouth name call and also kinda sorta threatened Ran.

I'll take whatever he dishes out Monica because I can throw it back. It's fun!:cool:

[RanRan79]

I think it's even worse now. I watched it for the first and only time in 1995 on MTV. It was AWFUL. So if it was awful at 11, imagine seeing it while pushing 37! Lol

That's when I taped it! LOL MTV had this Jacksons everything week or month and I was a taping fool!

[RanRan79]

Remember that scam of a movie he was involved with. Hes just anoyther loser another opportunist cashing in on Flo.

To be fair Roberta, I think he may have been duped along with everyone else that had become involved. It was such a shame that someone took the opportunity to attach Flo's name to a con. Interestingly, I wonder if that chick who is pretending to be Flo's daughter Nicole is the woman who was behind the whole project. She's a twisted individual.

[RanRan79]

I always thought Peter was smug lol
I hate how he just redid Rick James' book as if he had interviewed him for the book lmfao

Flo would probably be pissed off at him right now for the book.

He was ridiculous. He wrote this passage in the book about Diana saying that Flo's parents selfishly wanted Flo to be a singer more than she wanted it for herself. In actuality Diana said Flo's "family" wanted it more than Flo wanted it. Now Diana's statement seems to be bullshit, but it would be nice if she ever clarified what she meant by that. But I found it interesting that Benjaminson criticized Diana for making that statement, but not Mary for saying that the Ballards took from Flo and gave nothing back.

[midnightman]

That's when I taped it! LOL MTV had this Jacksons everything week or month and I was a taping fool!

Yeah, they had a MJ week when HIStory came out [[or when his music video to "Scream" premiered, I remember how big of a deal that was), they were airing everything MJ ever doggone did, even the Jackson 5 cartoon series lmao

When I saw Captain EO, I remember being excited to finally see the film, only to see it and cringe the whole time. LOL

[midnightman]

He was ridiculous. He wrote this passage in the book about Diana saying that Flo's parents selfishly wanted Flo to be a singer more than she wanted it for herself. In actuality Diana said Flo's "family" wanted it more than Flo wanted it. Now Diana's statement seems to be bullshit, but it would be nice if she ever clarified what she meant by that. But I found it interesting that Benjaminson criticized Diana for making that statement, but not Mary for saying that the Ballards took from Flo and gave nothing back.

It makes more money for the most famous of the Supremes to be critical of her ex-partners than for a lesser famous Supreme to be critical... that's all that was. If Diana deserved the smoke for what she said about Flo, so did Mary. It's only fair. The fact Peter didn't shows how obtuse he is.

[Boogiedown]

That having a lot of hair is a big responsibility..........

lol! You're too much Marv!

but seriously, with a title like that , what was revealed ??

[Guy]

And here ya go. LMAO


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Cmf6ZbUA2F4&amp;t=6069s

OMG!!!! I didn't know this existed. How funny! She was brazenly unrepentant! Ha!

Although, it makes sense that I didn't know because I went cold on her when she released FBTP. I gave her up for all the new contemporary girls who were popular then. I didn't rejoin the Ross cult until EDIAND. I was only vaguely aware of her Superbowl Halftime performance.

[RanRan79]

Yeah, they had a MJ week when HIStory came out [[or when his music video to "Scream" premiered, I remember how big of a deal that was), they were airing everything MJ ever doggone did, even the Jackson 5 cartoon series lmao

When I saw Captain EO, I remember being excited to finally see the film, only to see it and cringe the whole time. LOL

Yup, and I was here for it. That's actually the last time I was Michael Jackson crazy. "You Are Not Alone" was out later that summer and it was the jam, but after that I put Mike in the "used to be great" category and moved on. He had lost a lot of what made him captivating during my childhood.

[RanRan79]

It makes more money for the most famous of the Supremes to be critical of her ex-partners than for a lesser famous Supreme to be critical... that's all that was. If Diana deserved the smoke for what she said about Flo, so did Mary. It's only fair. The fact Peter didn't shows how obtuse he is.

Yeah, they always use Diana's name and reputation, rather than letting the truth be the truth.

[midnightman]

Yup, and I was here for it. That's actually the last time I was Michael Jackson crazy. "You Are Not Alone" was out later that summer and it was the jam, but after that I put Mike in the "used to be great" category and moved on. He had lost a lot of what made him captivating during my childhood.

He lost the Midas touch with HIStory and never came back up.

[midnightman]

Yeah, they always use Diana's name and reputation, rather than letting the truth be the truth.

As always. I hope one day when they do a new book on the Supremes, they'll be more fair to all of them. After all, they were human and went through ups and downs, many of which we could only begin to imagine, and yet out of it came all this legendary music. Maybe we'll never get it because we're living in a "what's the tea" era and even now any stories on Diana, true or false, still gets tongues wagging.

[monicarivers]

I'll take whatever he dishes out Monica because I can throw it back. It's fun!:cool:

Speaking of “dishes”, I’m sure he has a few favorites lol. But seriously, my partner read this thread last night and LOLd as well. Marv thinks that Diana Ross, who had a DUI twenty years ago is somehow Satan incarnate but literally thinks other celebrities who’ve been accused of, and or charged with pedophilia/sexual abuse/assault are great figures in black history on par with Frederick Douglas and Malcolm X??? Can’t make this shit up!

[captainjames]

I always thought Peter was smug lol
I hate how he just redid Rick James' book as if he had interviewed him for the book lmfao

Flo would probably be pissed off at him right now for the book.

I can only imagine you are right. the only things that i took away from the tapes is she was reallllly mad at Berry Gordy, never really had any any knock down fights with Diana and Mary and really loved her family.

[monicarivers]

Pedro Ferrer was a man who beat the shit out of his wife for doing things as innocent as attending concerts and chastising his siblings. Help me understand how that is on the same level as Diana Ross saying she wanted to shake Florence?

Don’t waste your time trying to reason with this crazy person, Ran. He thinks a child molester and a serial sexual abuser are great black Americans lol

[Roberta75]

As always. I hope one day when they do a new book on the Supremes, they'll be more fair to all of them. After all, they were human and went through ups and downs, many of which we could only begin to imagine, and yet out of it came all this legendary music. Maybe we'll never get it because we're living in a "what's the tea" era and even now any stories on Diana, true or false, still gets tongues wagging.

And we need to all remember that DMF were real young when they short to fame. Im not proud of my bratty behavior in my teens and 20s.

[midnightman]

And we need to all remember that DMF were real young when they short to fame. Im not proud of my bratty behavior in my teens and 20s.

Yeah, Diana and Mary had just turned 20 and Flo only 21 when they began to have hit records. Only 16/17 when they signed with Motown. People should put that in perspective.

[Ollie9]

Yeah, Diana and Mary had just turned 20 and Flo only 21 when they began to have hit records. Only 16/17 when they signed with Motown. People should put that in perspective.

Wise words midnight. I was a complete angel in my teens and early 20’s, but realise now i was probably one of a small minority. :rolleyes:
These girls were still very young to be suddenly thrust into the full glare of the media spotlight and all that that entails. With their workload probably quadrupled, they must have been under incredible pressure at times. Diana’s worrying weight loss being just one of the symptoms.

[RanRan79]

He lost the Midas touch with HIStory and never came back up.

Musically speaking, the Invincible album was a return to form. I actually enjoyed it. "Butterflies" reminded me of the old Mike. But I still wasn't wowed like I used to be. I really think that experience was a once in a lifetime. At his peak, there wasn't anybody bigger than Michael Jackson.

[RanRan79]

I can only imagine you are right. the only things that i took away from the tapes is she was reallllly mad at Berry Gordy, never really had any any knock down fights with Diana and Mary and really loved her family.

I emailed Benjaminson once about when he would release all of the tapes and he said he was making plans to do that. I really would love to hear Flo tell the story in her own words and voice. That's been at least 10 years ago and not a peep. Hmmm.

[midnightman]

Wise words midnight. I was a complete angel in my teens and early 20’s, but realise now i was probably one of a small minority. :rolleyes:
These girls were still very young to be suddenly thrust into the full glare of the media spotlight and all that that entails. With their workload probably quadrupled, they must have been under incredible pressure at times. Diana’s worrying weight loss being just one of the symptoms.

Yeah. Diana was battling anorexia nervosa before there was a name for it. Being 20, 21, 22, 23 and being overworked, I'm actually surprised any of them survived the way Berry booked them!

[midnightman]

Musically speaking, the Invincible album was a return to form. I actually enjoyed it. "Butterflies" reminded me of the old Mike. But I still wasn't wowed like I used to be. I really think that experience was a once in a lifetime. At his peak, there wasn't anybody bigger than Michael Jackson.

He peaked with Thriller IMHO. Everything else moved downwards.

[RanRan79]

He peaked with Thriller IMHO. Everything else moved downwards.

You think so? I think "Another Part Of Me", "I Just Can't Stop Loving You", "Man In the Mirror", "Liberian Girl", "Dirty Diana", "Smooth Criminal" and "Leave Me Alone" were as good or "better" than some of the songs on Thriller. Same thing with Dangerous. Definitely "Remember the Time" was as good as anything he had done before. Quality wise, Mike never slipped until HIStory, IMO.

[jobeterob]

Both points are valid.

It was hard not to slip after Thriller and his sales sure did. And then he started to go screwy with either his ailments or his syndromes.

But he did have good music after Thriller for sure.

Every time I see those later pictures where his face was deteriorating, I always hope it was a medical condition he was dealing with as opposed to some mental condition causing him to do bad things to himself.

[midnightman]

You think so? I think "Another Part Of Me", "I Just Can't Stop Loving You", "Man In the Mirror", "Liberian Girl", "Dirty Diana", "Smooth Criminal" and "Leave Me Alone" were as good or "better" than some of the songs on Thriller. Same thing with Dangerous. Definitely "Remember the Time" was as good as anything he had done before. Quality wise, Mike never slipped until HIStory, IMO.

Bad was pretty good, but Thriller was a perfect alignment. Dangerous was when he started to lose the plot where HIStory put the nail in the coffin.

[monicarivers]

Bad was pretty good, but Thriller was a perfect alignment. Dangerous was when he started to lose the plot where HIStory put the nail in the coffin.

Off The Wall my absolute fave, especially if you were in the discos in the late 70s!

[Circa 1824]

Anorexia nervosa is NOT being skinny because of youth and hard work. Ross did NOT have anorexia !!! She was young, had a high metabolism, and burned more calories than she took in. She was very aware of being super skinny and often made jokes about it. On the other hand, Karen Carpenter actually thought she was fat and regularly dieted.

[floyjoy678]

Anorexia nervosa is NOT being skinny because of youth and hard work. Ross did NOT have anorexia !!! She was young, had a high metabolism, and burned more calories than she took in. She was very aware of being super skinny and often made jokes about it. On the other hand, Karen Carpenter actually thought she was fat and regularly dieted.

Diana was stressed. Stress can suppress your appetite. I worked in a high stress environment years ago and I had to force myself to eat a small meal everyday. I went from 160 down to 130 in just a few months.

[Circa 1824]

Wow, yep time to get a new job.

[Boogiedown]

.....^^ lol!

[floyjoy678]

Wow, yep time to get a new job.

Lol it all paid off after about a year though. Led to a nice promotion and pay raise. Just had to earn my stripes first. Unfortunately it just cost me health for a little bit there.

[Circa 1824]

Lol it all paid off after about a year though. Led to a nice promotion and pay raise. Just had to earn my stripes first. Unfortunately it just cost me health for a little bit there.

i am happy it all worked out well for you.

[midnightman]

Off The Wall my absolute fave, especially if you were in the discos in the late 70s!

OTW was his masterpiece.

[midnightman]

Diana was stressed. Stress can suppress your appetite. I worked in a high stress environment years ago and I had to force myself to eat a small meal everyday. I went from 160 down to 130 in just a few months.

And in SOAS, Diana talked about working so much that she refused to eat. She strove for perfection especially in those days as lead singer of the Supremes. I don't know why some fans are acting like she wasn't vulnerable. Come on now... people react differently. Diana worked so much she didn't think of food, Karen suffered from low self esteem about her looks so she didn't think of food. You react differently especially when you get so much success when you're still pretty young.

[reese]

In the book, Diana wrote that it actually got to the point that she couldn't stand the smell of food and when she tried to eat, her jaws would clamp down. She went on to say that she enjoyed working the Apollo because nearby was a steak house where they had steak sandwiches and baked potatoes, one of the few meals she enjoyed.

[midnightman]

In the book, Diana wrote that it actually got to the point that she couldn't stand the smell of food and when she tried to eat, her jaws would clamp down. She went on to say that she enjoyed working the Apollo because nearby was a steak house where they had steak sandwiches and baked potatoes, one of the few meals she enjoyed.

Yeah I remember hearing that when I played the audio book. Again, no one knows the pain and struggles Diana and all of those artists went through back in the day. I would also think the stress of being treated like second class citizens also affected her [[though she hardly mentions it at times but we know she was from the few times she did discuss racism).

[ballardfan67]

I am sure that there are things we will never know. For all we know many of them may have tried to help Flo to no avail. I watched a video of the Motown picnic in 74 and I was wondering...did anyone go see about her or did they not care? But who knows. Her family doesnt seem to even reference her much and I mean her siblings who are remaining and nieces/nephews. We really dont know what they went through with her. Her own mother said to her she didnt understand why she sat around wasting her time and talent and told her to do some commercials. People may have just been plain tired of dealing with her. Which is sad still.

[floyjoy678]

There was an interview with Mary in recent years where she said herself, Berry and Diana all tried to help Flo at various points. Flo had the goods, she just lacked the motivation due to her personal issues. Its sad, as a huge Flo fan I feel she could have had a much bigger career had she just applied herself. I see it in the early clips of the Supremes. She had the charisma but it vanished after 1965 or so.

[captainjames]

Truth be told there were a lot of folks that could have helped Flo but no one knew what to do or say. Today medically they say its depression and in my opinion I just dont think Flo liked traveling and was more family oriented. Also, it's been so long but I remember hearing from Flo's own words that she didn't really want to be at Motown from the beginning. Actually, I thought Flo's sister Maxine would finally shed some light on this but she really didn't give any answers so I still feel Flo had her own demons to deal with.

A lot of folks will say that Diana was going to use the Supremes as her launching pad to stardom but truth be told Berry was going to make Diana his "Motown" star with or without the Supremes.

[marybrewster]

Flo was a good singer. Just like there were 1000's of other good singers in the late 1960's. I'm sure it was no secret that Flo could be "difficult"; missing appearances, missing recording dates.

There's no surprise really that Flo didn't become "the next Aretha".

[SatansBlues]

Flo was a good singer. Just like there were 1000's of other good singers in the late 1960's. I'm sure it was no secret that Flo could be "difficult"; missing appearances, missing recording dates.

There's no surprise really that Flo didn't become "the next Aretha".
Florence was indeed a good singer, but was she a "Motown" singer? Looking at all the great female singers signed to Motown during the 1960's did Florence have a distinctive enough voice to break thru?

[Bluebrock]

Florence was indeed a good singer, but was she a "Motown" singer? Looking at all the great female singers signed to Motown during the 1960's did Florence have a distinctive enough voice to break thru?

Not in my opinion. She had a big voice and a loud voice but there was nothing there that ever made me think she had the potential to become a major solo star.

[marybrewster]

I agree Satan and Blue. It's no disrespect to Florence whatsoever. She made up 1/3 of the worlds greatest female trio. But there was nothing distinctive about her voice that leads me to believe she could have been a major superstar. Her solo album is proof. She might have carved out a nice niche the way artists like Barbara Randolph, Bettye LaVette, and Kim Weston did. Sung a few Motown hits, a Supremes medley, a couple current hits. Would have definitely made a nice career.

Unfortunately the same can be said about Mary. Mary has a nice voice. But again, there's 1000 singers that sound just like her. Mary lucked out because she inherited the Supremes legacy. It's interesting to think what her career might look like if Flo had lived. She wouldn't be the sole keeper of the flame.

[Bluebrock]

I agree Satan and Blue. It's no disrespect to Florence whatsoever. She made up 1/3 of the worlds greatest female trio. But there was nothing distinctive about her voice that leads me to believe she could have been a major superstar. Her solo album is proof. She might have carved out a nice niche the way artists like Barbara Randolph, Bettye LaVette, and Kim Weston did. Sung a few Motown hits, a Supremes medley, a couple current hits. Would have definitely made a nice career.

Unfortunately the same can be said about Mary. Mary has a nice voice. But again, there's 1000 singers that sound just like her. Mary lucked out because she inherited the Supremes legacy. It's interesting to think what her career might look like if Flo had lived. She wouldn't be the sole keeper of the flame.
I also totally agree with you in regards to Mary. She was a stunningly beautiful woman who had the potential to be a model or even a film star, but successful solo singer? Forget it. She quite simply did not have the chops.
You raise a fascinating point regarding Flo. Had she lived there is every chance she would have toured with Mary or even been in direct competition with her in keeping the Supremes legacy alive. It is something i have never previously considered.

[sup_fan]

while i don't think either F or M were really suited for pop singing, i do think there was potential there. Diana certainly evolved CONSIDERABLY from her early work. had that same testing and studio experimenting been offered to the other two, it's possible there could have been real strengths in other music fields.

F definitely had a big voice. she needed to learn more vocal control though with pitch. we've all mentioned many times what a wonderful track Good News is. i also absolutely love her short line on Breathtaking Guy. Not sure why that sound was never really found that way again. it's such a lovely soft and delicate way of singing. not as forced or as sometime pinched as her vocals could be. again - what an interesting path that could have been

I've struggle with more of Mary's leads, tending to find them rather monotonous and bland. Falling in Love is one of her better but it's the duet concept and then the full trio that makes the song shine. had it been 100% mary, it would have been too bland. that is until the released her version of The Christmas Story. even though they edited it as a duet, i find Mary's lead on this track to be, frankly, among her best as a Supreme. I would have loved to see them take time with the CW&P songs and experiment more with mary. and not as a rushed job either. There are other moments - Teardrops from the HE album, her headvoice vocals on the end of I Keep It Hid. She needed to work and develop it. but there's definitely a jazz voice in there, waiting

[Bluebrock]

while i don't think either F or M were really suited for pop singing, i do think there was potential there. Diana certainly evolved CONSIDERABLY from her early work. had that same testing and studio experimenting been offered to the other two, it's possible there could have been real strengths in other music fields.

F definitely had a big voice. she needed to learn more vocal control though with pitch. we've all mentioned many times what a wonderful track Good News is. i also absolutely love her short line on Breathtaking Guy. Not sure why that sound was never really found that way again. it's such a lovely soft and delicate way of singing. not as forced or as sometime pinched as her vocals could be. again - what an interesting path that could have been

I've struggle with more of Mary's leads, tending to find them rather monotonous and bland. Falling in Love is one of her better but it's the duet concept and then the full trio that makes the song shine. had it been 100% mary, it would have been too bland. that is until the released her version of The Christmas Story. even though they edited it as a duet, i find Mary's lead on this track to be, frankly, among her best as a Supreme. I would have loved to see them take time with the CW&P songs and experiment more with mary. and not as a rushed job either. There are other moments - Teardrops from the HE album, her headvoice vocals on the end of I Keep It Hid. She needed to work and develop it. but there's definitely a jazz voice in there, waiting

Those are well chosen words to describe Mary's lead vocals - monotonous and bland. The odd lead here and there is fine but i would hate to sit through a full albums worth. A little goes a long way

[sup_fan]

her solo work with Gus Dungeon really did shine. all four tunes are very strong and i don't know if she ever sounded better [[before or since). it would be interesting to hear what a whole album would have sounded like, with him at the helm.

[jobeterob]

Occasionally and for a change, Mary's vocals were nice - I Keep It Hid, some of those from High Energy, even Can't Take My Eyes Off You.

But ultimately, Mary's voice is like "one of a million girls" as they say in Floy Joy. It didn't have a lot of flexibility or range, it didn't often catch a lot of attention. If she tended toward Tina Turner, it certainly was no where near as strong.

This must be part of the reason that producers did not flock to work with her nor were any hits produced.

[benross]

Mary had some nice solo and duet [[with Cindy) moments in the Irving Berlin Medley. On the Tarzan show, she all but had the lead in the opening version of Michael Row The Boat Ashore, and she held her own; Cindy and Diana were barely audible and seemed unnecessary. Also, I enjoyed some of her leads in the '70s groupings, especially the ballads, whether on records or on stage [[Quiet Nights, for instance). During her late 1970s-early 1980s, her personality and beauty helped her sell her solo show interpretations, and some of the songs from her first and only Motown album sounded fresh, not frenetic, when performed with a small backup band. But she had some less than stellar moments, too, such as the not-yet-released Son Of A Preacher Man; the idea of that one may have seemed good on paper, but she aped Dusty poorly and added nothing new or exciting to make the song hers. Too, as has been mentioned on this site before, when Mary offers her versions of Love Child or other 1964-1969 hits, many of us wince a bit, as it was Diana's leads that made the songs memorable. Mary's had a challenging predicament, riding on her distant past and trying to create something new, and while she has done okay, despite the ill-advised second-rate, dated disco tunes, the times were changing by the late 1970s, and the nightclubs/jazz clubs where she might have had a chance to become a star in her own right disappeared, along with what may have been a lucrative avenue for her.

[blackguy69]

As per Son of a Preachers man it sounds like it was her first vocal run. . It’s kinda hard to judge an unfinished version.
Mary had some nice solo and duet [[with Cindy) moments in the Irving Berlin Medley. On the Tarzan show, she all but had the lead in the opening version of Michael Row The Boat Ashore, and she held her own; Cindy and Diana were barely audible and seemed unnecessary. Also, I enjoyed some of her leads in the '70s groupings, especially the ballads, whether on records or on stage [[Quiet Nights, for instance). During her late 1970s-early 1980s, her personality and beauty helped her sell her solo show interpretations, and some of the songs from her first and only Motown album sounded fresh, not frenetic, when performed with a small backup band. But she had some less than stellar moments, too, such as the not-yet-released Son Of A Preacher Man; the idea of that one may have seemed good on paper, but she aped Dusty poorly and added nothing new or exciting to make the song hers. Too, as has been mentioned on this site before, when Mary offers her versions of Love Child or other 1964-1969 hits, many of us wince a bit, as it was Diana's leads that made the songs memorable. Mary's had a challenging predicament, riding on her distant past and trying to create something new, and while she has done okay, despite the ill-advised second-rate, dated disco tunes, the times were changing by the late 1970s, and the nightclubs/jazz clubs where she might have had a chance to become a star in her own right disappeared, along with what may have been a lucrative avenue for her.

[Bluebrock]

As per Son of a Preachers man it sounds like it was her first vocal run. . It’s kinda hard to judge an unfinished version.
We can only pass judgement on the version we have heard.

[Ollie9]

Mary had some nice solo and duet [[with Cindy) moments in the Irving Berlin Medley. On the Tarzan show, she all but had the lead in the opening version of Michael Row The Boat Ashore, and she held her own; Cindy and Diana were barely audible and seemed unnecessary. Also, I enjoyed some of her leads in the '70s groupings, especially the ballads, whether on records or on stage [[Quiet Nights, for instance). During her late 1970s-early 1980s, her personality and beauty helped her sell her solo show interpretations, and some of the songs from her first and only Motown album sounded fresh, not frenetic, when performed with a small backup band. But she had some less than stellar moments, too, such as the not-yet-released Son Of A Preacher Man; the idea of that one may have seemed good on paper, but she aped Dusty poorly and added nothing new or exciting to make the song hers. Too, as has been mentioned on this site before, when Mary offers her versions of Love Child or other 1964-1969 hits, many of us wince a bit, as it was Diana's leads that made the songs memorable. Mary's had a challenging predicament, riding on her distant past and trying to create something new, and while she has done okay, despite the ill-advised second-rate, dated disco tunes, the times were changing by the late 1970s, and the nightclubs/jazz clubs where she might have had a chance to become a star in her own right disappeared, along with what may have been a lucrative avenue for her.

Excellent summary ben.

[blackguy69]

And it clearly sounds like it was no where near finished

We can only pass judgement on the version we have heard.

[sup_fan]

I am sure that there are things we will never know. For all we know many of them may have tried to help Flo to no avail. I watched a video of the Motown picnic in 74 and I was wondering...did anyone go see about her or did they not care? But who knows. Her family doesnt seem to even reference her much and I mean her siblings who are remaining and nieces/nephews. We really dont know what they went through with her. Her own mother said to her she didnt understand why she sat around wasting her time and talent and told her to do some commercials. People may have just been plain tired of dealing with her. Which is sad still.

i'm sure there were some motown people that kept in touch with her but think of it as a "normal" job here and today. if you work in an office building as part of a team and one of those teammates is fired, what would be your ongoing interaction? maybe if you were very close you would keep in touch. but much of the staff only worked here and there with the girls. and some might not have had a close or positive relationship with her. and by 74, as many years had passed since she left the group as she had been in the group! lol

[sup_fan]

Mary's studio recordings in the 60s were fine but not memorable. Just the fact that she so rarely did a lead, doesn't make it special. other than the rarity of it

her voice has a lovely tone and quality to it. it's just that she doesn't offer much variety and there really aren't many peaks/valleys. her approach to most of the songs is very similar and monotonous. on the opposite end of the spectrum was Diana who had so much character and inflection in her voice. On Come Get These Memories, it's a perfectly acceptable recording. but it's like a fan of MRATV won a singing competition and got to wax a record. kind of like girl Christine Schumacher that won a radio contest to sing and record a version of Mother You, Smother You.

now in contrast to this is Mary live. Listen to how playful and sexy she is on Enjoy Yourself when she sings "when they write your epitaph" You can just see her up there, working the stage, giving a "knowing" look and playing with the audience.

or listen to her brief leads on Christmas Song. a much more engaged and passionate lead. i adore towards the ending and how she sings and caresses the lyrics of "Merry Christmas" at 1:42. stunning

so she had the goods. and she certainly improved over the years. while i find many of her Jean era leads boring too, she did shine on some of the Scherrie era tracks. You Turn Me Around, her leads on HE and MSS.

i don't know why it didn't seem to always come through in the studio. it certainly is possible that her forte was the stage where she could draw that inspiration from the audience. don't know.

[Bluebrock]

And it clearly sounds like it was no where near finished

I agree it does sound rather dire, but until we hear a better vocal take we have to judge it on it's own "merits". If a better take on the song surfaces we shall judge that on it's own merits too, but until that time we are left with this particular attempt only.

[PeaceNHarmony]

i'm sure there were some motown people that kept in touch with her but think of it as a "normal" job here and today. if you work in an office building as part of a team and one of those teammates is fired, what would be your ongoing interaction? maybe if you were very close you would keep in touch. but much of the staff only worked here and there with the girls. and some might not have had a close or positive relationship with her. and by 74, as many years had passed since she left the group as she had been in the group! lolYou state perfectly about the 'normal job', as I have always said. I'm sure not each-and-every past member of each-and-every Motown group was forever foremost in the minds of every Motown staffer and new group. Life moves on.

[sup_fan]

You state perfectly about the 'normal job', as I have always said. I'm sure not each-and-every past member of each-and-every Motown group was forever foremost in the minds of every Motown staffer and new group. Life moves on.

as superfans, we can to aggrandize the whole Motown experience. there's a lot of personal feelings for us tied to the music but we forget that it was really just a job, albeit perhaps a fun one, for many of the general employees at Motown. at the end of the day, they worked, earned a pay check ,paid their morgages and bills and lived life. yes they might have interacted with superstars so that's a bit out of the ordinary. but they're still just average joes

[blackguy69]

As with most unreleased material I take it with a grain of salt knowing it wasn’t finished so I won’t be critical of the recording. They’re plenty of released material from all of the ladies that could use a few more vocal attempts.

I agree it does sound rather dire, but until we hear a better vocal take we have to judge it on it's own "merits". If a better take on the song surfaces we shall judge that on it's own merits too, but until that time we are left with this particular attempt only.

[sup_fan]

As with most unreleased material I take it with a grain of salt knowing it wasn’t finished so I won’t be critical of the recording. They’re plenty of released material from all of the ladies that could use a few more vocal attempts.

i do agree - I question how "finished" some other tunes were. like Over The Rainbow. And of course some of the Xmas stuff like Flo's leads, Mary's lead [[we've only got part of it), Diana's Silent Night.

frankly i don't mind hearing the unfinished things and i wouldn't give harsh critique to a practice or initial vocal. they're most likely not singing at "full performance" level. maybe they're just experimenting. etc.

[Bluebrock]

i do agree - I question how "finished" some other tunes were. like Over The Rainbow. And of course some of the Xmas stuff like Flo's leads, Mary's lead [[we've only got part of it), Diana's Silent Night.

frankly i don't mind hearing the unfinished things and i wouldn't give harsh critique to a practice or initial vocal. they're most likely not singing at "full performance" level. maybe they're just experimenting. etc.

I guess some experiments work whilst others don't. Dusty is a very tough act to follow. Even Aretha failed to match Dusty's peerless reading of the song.

[PeaceNHarmony]

as superfans, we can to aggrandize the whole Motown experience. there's a lot of personal feelings for us tied to the music but we forget that it was really just a job, albeit perhaps a fun one, for many of the general employees at Motown. at the end of the day, they worked, earned a pay check ,paid their morgages and bills and lived life. yes they might have interacted with superstars so that's a bit out of the ordinary. but they're still just average joesI truly think so, SupFan. Perhaps more 'coddled' stars [[Streisand, maybe) who are presented with fewer songs to record, or singer-songwriters who have a personal stake in the material, a label such as Motown had their stable recording song after song, day in and day out. Not each and every recording session can be a memory, to be sure!

[3677danielr]

Your incorrect on a couple of things. Diana Ross was already seen as a sex symbol by 1993. Maybe not to you but, to the world that was part of the Diana Ross image. Glamour, class and sexiness. The cover was applauded at that time as well.

[3677danielr]

I dont recall ever hearing this. I read Diana had second thoughts about "going there" and decided to look ahead. So she pulled the book.

Thats what I heard aa well.

[3677danielr]

Have to agree. It was such a let down and came through as somewhat phony and boring. She has a story. She just doesn't want to tell it like it is. It hit the budget tables very quickly back then. And that cover...pure tacky. I know Tina Turner posed for a similar photo but Diana Ross? No. Her attempt at becoming some sex symbol backfired, but hey, there are worse.
Your incorrect on a couple of things. Diana Ross was already seen as a sex symbol by 1993. Maybe not to you but, to the world that was part of the Diana Ross image. Glamour, class and sexiness. The cover was applauded at that time as well.

[Bluebrock]

Your incorrect on a couple of things. Diana Ross was already seen as a sex symbol by 1993. Maybe not to you but, to the world that was part of the Diana Ross image. Glamour, class and sexiness. The cover was applauded at that time as well.
Diana Ross is one sexy lady. When i met her i was bowled over by her natural beauty. My [[at the time 12 year old) daughter told Diana face to face she was even more beautiful than the Queen of England. That made both Diana and i laugh out loud!

[Roberta75]

I guess some experiments work whilst others don't. Dusty is a very tough act to follow. Even Aretha failed to match Dusty's peerless reading of the song.

I thought Dianas cover of Going Back was so beautiful. One of my favorite Diana recordings.

[vgalindo]

I thought Dianas cover of Going Back was so beautiful. One of my favorite Diana recordings.
I did too Roberta. I love Diana’s version very much.