For fans of the Chicago Sound

[MIKEW-UK]

Hi all,

Hope everybody is well given the current circumstances.

If you are a fan of the Chicago Sound, the link below will take you to an excellent website on the Chicago Sound. It is especially interesting because it heavily features interviews with the arrangers and musicians who were the architects of the Chicago Sound, for example Thomas ’Tom Tom’ Washington, Willie Henderson, Gene Barge, And James Mack, as well as artists such as Gene Chandler.

And what an amazing institution Crane College was: “Prominent Crane grads include Tom Washington, fellow Brunswick Records arranger Willie Henderson, Nancy Wilson, Jerry Butler, Tyrone Davis, Della Reese, Walter Jackson, Little Milton, Verdine White, and founding members of Earth, Wind & Fire, Louis Satterfield, Don Myrick, and Maurice White.”

Oh, and and excellent tracks representing Chicago in a playlist.

Cheers

Mike

https://www.312soul.com/1955-1966

[splanky]

Bingo!...
Now that's what I like to see!
Thanks, Mike....

[robb_k]

17522
Great website! Thanks for posting the link.

[Boogiedown]

thank you thank you.

Tom Tom 84 has always been a mystery name for me , appearing as arranger on many records of the seventies. Could never learn anything about him . Not even a last name.

AT LAST !:cool:


https://vimeo.com/390182857



https://vimeo.com/390182857

[robb_k]

thank you thank you.

Tom Tom 84 has always been a mystery name for me , appearing as arranger on many records of the seventies. Could never learn anything about him . Not even a last name.

AT LAST !:cool:


https://vimeo.com/390182857

https://vimeo.com/390182857

17533
He was around, arranging in the late '60s, too.

[Motown Eddie]

Great website! Thanks & Cheers to Mike for sharing the news.

[Boogiedown]

17533
He was around, arranging in the late '60s, too.

Yes he goes back and has done a lot ! --- as Tom Tom and Tom Tom 84.
Now that I know who he is I look forward to reviewing all of his work .

Any idea what the moniker
'Tom Tom 84' means ??
Haven't found the answer to that yet ...

[MIKEW-UK]

Actually Tom Washington used several different variants depending when he was recording......

"In my cratedigging, I actually look for his name on a record as a mark of excellence. I call it looking for a “Tom Tom”. I have at least a couple of hundred cuts he’s had a hand in [[under the names Tom Tom, Tom Tom 74, Tom Tom 75, Tom Tom 84, Tom Tom Washington, and a few other aliases)".
https://www.google.com/amp/s/darkjive.com/2011/10/01/tom-tom-84-goes-hollywood/amp/

[MIKEW-UK]

I believe Kevin Goins is a personal friend of Thomas Tom Tom Washington and hopefully see this thread and post something. Tom Tom is still working by the way! Mike

[heikki]

Hi Tom Tom is on Facebook. I just asked him this question. Perhaps Kevin did too :-).

[Boogiedown]

Hi Tom Tom is on Facebook. I just asked him this question. Perhaps Kevin did too :-).

If you get an answer from Tom Tom , Heikki, I hope you'll share.
Maybe you'll interview him!

I'd love to know how much he thinks his input accounts for the sound of a record? What percentage ? Or another way of asking , when listening to the song BEST OF MY LOVE by The Emotions , how much of what is being heard, the vibe, is due to him??

On another, I think the part his horns and strings play on SHAKE YOU BODY are essential, but did they flow easily from the existing tracks already laid ? Does he consider them as mere sweetening ?


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pij8XUy3oyc

[StuBass1]

Just to throw out there... I'm not so sure there was such a thing as the "Chicago Sound, in the same vein as there was an immediately recognizable "Detroit [[Motown) Sound" that was distinguished with certain characteristics... repetitive backbeats, wandering basslines, a hot tambourine, that familiar Motown shuffle drum beat, and the patented studio A mixing tendencies, a true formula, and I don't know that Chicago or any specific studio there had such a patterned formula as did Detroit and Motown, at least that transcended certain specific artists... Chicago had many great artists, but not a single characteristic sound that I can recall... Jackie Wilson [[Dick Jacobs arranged tracks) bore little resemblance to Impressions tracks, and what Maurice White ultimately developed into Earth, Wind & Fire really cannot be traced to the evolution of anything from Chicago specifically that came before it, save similarity of heavy horn emphasis shared with CTA [[later Chicago) but was not really a big part of earlier Chicago tracks from Gene Chandler or some of the blues or Jazz artists from the Windy City [[if there WAS a Chicago sound in the 50's and 60's, it would be those classic southern blues transplants perhaps), but I don't hear that stuff in EW&F or Jerry Butler, or the Chi-Lites for example... So from a strictly musical perspective , can someone tell me what the characteristics of the "Chicago Sound" being discussed here really were???...There were several really good arrangers from Johnny Pate and Sonny Sanders, to Dick Jacobs, etc... but different stylistically whereas at Motown, arrangers like Paul Riser, Wade Marcus, and Willie Shorter had a similar feel the company was looking for until Dave Van DePitte came along with slightly more intricate arrangements...but I don't see the type of structural or instrumental similarities as was happening in Detroit...I've heard people say about songs from other labels and cities that they sound like Motown...but can't recall anyone saying about any record that it sounds like the "Chicago" sound... Or maybe it's just me...

[MIKEW-UK]

Hi Stu,
You make a very good case.
On reflection I can't disagree with your observations about a specific Chicago Sound. The reality is that there were number of Chicago sounds, not one specific formula. However I do believe within these different Chicago sounds there are distinct formulaic methodologies which make Chicago recordings identifiable and distinct. They bear their own hallmarks and would not be mistaken for Memphis / Stax, Detroit / Motown, Philadelphia Intl/ P.A, or any other city than Chicago. I'll present some examples and set out my thoughts later.

Cheers

Mike

[splanky]

I don't know if I'm articulate enough to shine a brighter light on the subject but I think
this article is fairly accurate:
http://www.encyclopedia.chicagohistory.org/pages/267.html

Also a lot of the aesthetics that Maurice White brought to bear in EWF came from the
influence of jazz musicians like the Art Ensemble of Chicago and especially from the
late Charles Stephney. This is the man who made career successes for several acts, Minnie Riperton, The Dells as well as EWF. They were on different plane than Detroit
or Memphis...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qtuCkUhuxdg

[robb_k]

Just to throw out there... I'm not so sure there was such a thing as the "Chicago Sound, in the same vein as there was an immediately recognizable "Detroit [[Motown) Sound" that was distinguished with certain characteristics... repetitive backbeats, wandering basslines, a hot tambourine, that familiar Motown shuffle drum beat, and the patented studio A mixing tendencies, a true formula, and I don't know that Chicago or any specific studio there had such a patterned formula as did Detroit and Motown, at least that transcended certain specific artists... Chicago had many great artists, but not a single characteristic sound that I can recall... Jackie Wilson [[Dick Jacobs arranged tracks) bore little resemblance to Impressions tracks, and what Maurice White ultimately developed into Earth, Wind & Fire really cannot be traced to the evolution of anything from Chicago specifically that came before it, save similarity of heavy horn emphasis shared with CTA [[later Chicago) but was not really a big part of earlier Chicago tracks from Gene Chandler or some of the blues or Jazz artists from the Windy City [[if there WAS a Chicago sound in the 50's and 60's, it would be those classic southern blues transplants perhaps), but I don't hear that stuff in EW&F or Jerry Butler, or the Chi-Lites for example... So from a strictly musical perspective , can someone tell me what the characteristics of the "Chicago Sound" being discussed here really were???...There were several really good arrangers from Johnny Pate and Sonny Sanders, to Dick Jacobs, etc... but different stylistically whereas at Motown, arrangers like Paul Riser, Wade Marcus, and Willie Shorter had a similar feel the company was looking for until Dave Van DePitte came along with slightly more intricate arrangements...but I don't see the type of structural or instrumental similarities as was happening in Detroit...I've heard people say about songs from other labels and cities that they sound like Motown...but can't recall anyone saying about any record that it sounds like the "Chicago" sound... Or maybe it's just me...
17629
Dick Jacobs was a native New Yorker, who lived there all his life. During the time he arranged recordings for Jackie Wilson, Brunswick worked mainly out of New York, and Jackie recorded in New York. Jackie started recording in Chicago only in 1965, after Brunswick hired Carl Davis to run their new Chicago office, because they thought that would revive his career. So, Dick Jacobs played no part in creating The Chicago Sound. If anything, Jacobs participated slightly, in helping create the early "Detroit Sound", by keeping his own arranging and directing, as close to Berry Gordy's demo recordings of Jackie's songs he and Billy Davis wrote for Jackie, and recorded in Detroit, and also keeping close to Al [[Kent) Hamilton's original "Am I The Man", which was much more of a Detroit-sounding cut than a "New York style". Berry's and Billy's songwriting style was emulated by many up-and coming Detroit songwriters and arrangers, so that their early songwriting has a "Detroit Sound" to it.

As far as there being a unique "Chicago Sound [[style)" of early and late R&B/Soul transition and Soul music, I agree that there IS; just as there was one for New York, Detroit, L.A., New Orleans, Philadelphia, Memphis, and Muscle Shoals. When I listen to 1960s R&B/Soul recordings, I can almost always tell in which of those particular cities the song was created, or mostly created, and for the most part, where it was recorded. It is much more difficult to assess that by listening for other cities, Like Cleveland, Pittsburgh, Seattle, Denver, Phoenix, Miami, Nashville, Atlanta, Boston, Minneapolis, Houston, Dallas, and all the others who don't seem to have their own, unique sound. Milwaukee, St. Louis, Indianapolis, and even Des Moines '60s R&B and Soul cuts sound like "Chicago Sound" cuts, probably because they were recorded in Chicago [[as they didn't have very many high-quality recording studios in those smaller Midwestern cities, OR, they were written and arranged by writers and/or arrangers who worked mainly in Chicago and the style of what others were doing rubbed off on them, or they actually had some Chicago people come there to work on their records.

During the 1950s, just as in Detroit, the R&B cuts were arranged and played by Jazz musicians. The big arrangers were saxist King Kolax, bassist Al Smith, saxist Red Holloway, pianist and woodwind player Riley Hampton, Pianist and flautist Johnny Pate, pianist Sonny Thompson, and others, who played on most of Chicago's R&B recordings for both large and small labels.

Most of them continued to arrange in the 1960s, joined by Leo Austell, Jr., Eddie Silvers, Sonny Sanders, Phil Wright, Johnny Cameron, Tom-Tom Washington, Eugene Record, Flash McKinley, Richard Parker, Gregory Washington, Burgess Gardner, Gerald Sims, Monk Higgins, Raynard Miner, Leonard Caston, Charles Handy, Roscoe Bowie, Marshall Thompson, and a whole lot more. All these played with musicians from the same large group of musicians who played on most of the Soul music recording sessions. They formed a sound that is unique to Chicago, just as the musicians at Motown - Funk Brothers, plus all the part timers, such as Joe Hunter, Don Davis, Melvin Davis, George McGregor and scores more, developed The Motown Sound, which influenced recording sessions for just about all the Soul sessions around the city. Same in Chicago. Most of the arrangers and session players didn't have exclusive contracts with their main record company employers. So, those same players were heard on many of the myriad of Chicago labels. The arrangers worked with so many of the session players around the city, many of whom were also session players when they weren't arranging. They all influenced each other. Many of the best songwriters were very prolific, and wrote for a lot of different companies. They, too, influenced each other, and were influenced also by the better arrangers. And, of course, Curtis Mayfield, Carl Davis, Billy Davis, Eugene Record, Gerald Sims, and the other great writers had a lot of influence on the young writers, just as the great Motown writers did on "The Detroit Sound".

As to "The Chicago Sound", a prominent twangy guitar solo[[like that of Curtis Mayfield, Billy Butler, Kermit Chandler, and Gerald Sims), and prominent horns, a plunky piano [[like that of Riley Hampton, Sonny Thompson, Johnny Pate, Flash Mckinley, or Raynard Miner), and a great group harmony background. And if strings are included, they are quite a bit less forward than those of Motown's style, also lots of mid-tempos, and Latin beats are featured. Recordings are generally less "hectic" than "fast Soul". Give Robert Pruter's book on "Chicago Soul" a read. You won't be Sorry.

The proof to me that there was a "Chicago Soul Sound" is "I'm Gonna Make You Love Me" by The Combinations. It was produced and recorded in Atlanta GA, by an Atlanta producer, and sung by an Atlanta group in 1965 - the midpoint of the classic "Chicago Sound", and by a group with the same name as a current Chicago classic Chicago Sound group, and yet, it is about as representative of "The Chicago Sound" as any record recorded in Chicago. When I first heard it, I said that had to have been recorded at Chicago's Universal Recording Studio in mid 1965. Now, this doesn't prove that there is no "Chicago Sound" because it was recorded elsewhere. There are only a handful of other cuts recorded elsewhere that sound as remotely "Chicagoish", just as there are a handful of Soul records recorded elsewhere that sound like they were recorded in Detroit.

Here it is - give it a listen:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LXN5k0coLYk

[robb_k]

17630
Here's a Chicago record from 1963 that epitomises "The Chicago Sound":
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qxYPe3sIcQE

[robb_k]

17630
Here's another - from 1964:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_IS2RWQuIRk

[robb_k]

17630
Here one from Major Lance:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yBCnH7gY7sQ

[robb_k]

17630
Here one from The Dukays:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-lNBbxDco7E&list=RD-lNBbxDco7E&start_radio=1

[robb_k]

17630
Here's one from Jan Bradley:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Tf2s4cDKwOM

[robb_k]

17631
Here's one from The Daylighters:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q3gTQOamhQc

[robb_k]

17631
Here's one from Billy Stewart:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1rEx2w6AMvs

[robb_k]

17631
Here's one from Otis Leavill:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rxXBJxh98Jc

[robb_k]

17631
Here's one from The Chi-Lites:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=60logfnZrp0

[robb_k]

17631
Here's one from The Opals:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FmMPPqrbbMM

[robb_k]

17632
Here's one from Gene Chandler:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ffn8KepYrkI

[robb_k]

17633
Here's Betty Everett, with Kermit Chandler on guitar:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IpX_Odj5iCY

[robb_k]

17633
Here's Chicago Bluesman, Jimmy Reed's son, Jimmy Jr.:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U6lbtQLFZkk

[robb_k]

17633
Here are The Kittens. Remember SDF member "Don" [[Montgomerie), whose uncle who raised him was a member of Chicago's Major's? This was his aunt's group:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pHSCAqs1H4U

[robb_k]

17633
Here's Walter Jackson teaming up with Curtis Mayfield and The Impressions:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0nDQUy_9Obc

[robb_k]

17633
Here's Jerry Butler:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DFI-EdcWwqY

[robb_k]

17633
Here's The Marvelows:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VskB-GGoIt4

[robb_k]

17633
Here's Chicago's Jackie Beavers[[AKA Tammy Levon) - No she's not Detroit's male Jackey Beavers after a sex change!:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Kk8xNucSuuA

[robb_k]

17634
Here's The Dell's original 1964 Vee Jay version:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RR34G1JBfRw

[robb_k]

17634
Here's The Fascinations -[[ yes The Detroit group)-But they're recording Chicago songs in Chicago, with The #1 contributor to The Chicago Sound:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mk0_zFKuxM0

[robb_k]

17634
Here's The Radiants:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2xlklMBLA18

[robb_k]

17634
Here's Jackie Wilson - but it's not a hybrid Chicago/Detroit sound backed by The Funk Brothers and The Andantes, -but, rather, a pure Chicago Sound recording:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dXAXVita9s0

[robb_k]

17634
Here's The Lovelites [[featuring Patti Hamilton):

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PwpVTp61k_o

[robb_k]

17634
Here's Wade Flemons- ex lead singer of The Newcomers:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M2Elz8d_Qs4

[robb_k]

17634
Here's The Naturals led by Carlton Black, who was also the piano player for The Drewvells, and their bass singer, and songwriter:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iJUM88Vvosg

[robb_k]

17634
Here's The Drewvells - recorded the same night as The Naturals' previous song:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KoF663ZHbM0

[robb_k]

17634
Here's Mill Evans [[AKA Millard Edwards - co-lead of The Sheppards - whose manager/producer Bill [[Bunky) Sheppard occupied the next office suite over from my Airwave Records many years ago:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9GgM8KTyrl0

[robb_k]

17634
Here's Marlina Mars -not a Chicago artist but everything else about this production is Chicago - even the Curtis Mayfield style strings:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9Jpyo_bv5-Q

[robb_k]

17634
Here's Ray and Dave singing for one of several record companies owned and managed by my favourite DJ growing up, Al Benson:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xMaXD_R95SQ

[robb_k]

17636
Here's Philadelphian, Dee Dee Sharp singing a Chicago Sound song, as Cameo asked new Philadelphian, Jerry Butler to get material for her from his fellow Chicagoan, Carl Davis, to help her sagging career[[as was done for Jackie Wilson that same year[['65). The song was written by Barrett Strong and preliminarily arranged by Sonny Sanders:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bTy2lPWa0ZM

[robb_k]

17636
Here's Chubby and The Turnpikes [[AKA Tavares):

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bcOObqA_vHQ

[robb_k]

17637
Here's The Fantasions [[Barbara Acklin [[AKA Barbara Allen) lead:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cS11Uh-fsaA

[robb_k]

17638
Here's Billy McGregor, Detroit's George McGregor's Chicagoan cousin:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sXPrkMpjjXQ

[robb_k]

17639
Here's Joyce Kennedy:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AxMw2iQ0raI

[robb_k]

17640
Here are The Pacesetters with a Vietnam song:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VwHW2q4rSMQ

[robb_k]

17641
Here's Holly Maxwell:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WuBZqntBj4c

[robb_k]

17642
Here's an unfinished and unissued demo by producer/songwriter Wilfrid "Flash" McKinley, who worked for Bob Catron's Bombay Records, as well as for Chess:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PqXLhvYIUb0

[arr&bee]

17630
here one from major lance:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ybcnh7gy7sqgood one robb,this little gem is rarely mentioned and although it didn't hit big it is still a very cool song from the early days in major's career.

[heikki]

Great choices, Robb!

[mr_june]

Robb, thanks for taking this thread over and setting things right about the Chicago Sound. I'm in Chi-Town and agree with you 1000%. Oh, and thanks for those great links. I'm having a ball with them.

[robb_k]

17644
I love Barbara Green's voice so much, I just had to post a 2nd:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cKgUqXXyuP8

[StuBass1]

Actually true on Dick Jacobs...my oversight and a brief brain drainage...
That aside and as you know...Jackie's most identifiable hit today, Higher and Higher used Detroit musicians summoned to Chicago as they tried to get the DETROIT SOUND out of a Chicago production...When Motown left Detroit...so did the "Detroit Sound" as the Los Angeles product [[even earlier Motown tracks cut in L.A. have a different feel and sound from the work product created in Studio A) as the musicians were as responsible for creating the "Detroit Sound" as was any other factor ...I do stand by my remarks as outside of perhaps Chicago, what is being referred to here as the "Chicago Sound", is hardly recognized as a single entity of similarities in the same vein as the "Miami Sound" with it's heavy Latin influence, the Memphis Sound with it's harsh "southern edge", the Philly Sound, New York-New Jersey street corner doo wop...even the Dick Griffey-Don Cornelius Sound of L.A. [[which L.A. Motown sounded more like than even similarities between L.A. Motown and Detroit Motown) and has, in my opinion, more recognizable musical similarities between the various groups... and in the general public, Chicago "soul" artists are often misidentified as "Motown" as the general public refers to those songs and artists...I fail to see the type of commonly recognized patterns that the harmonies [[Andantes, Originals) tracks [[Funk Brothers), and production that Motown as a recognizable trademark and was emulated at virtually all the smaller studios in Detroit during the 60's... With a Detroit Motown project you immediately recognized the three guitars and those razor sharp backbeats, Jamerson's syncopated bass, The familiar drum patterns, prominent baritone sax, background harmonies...and even the Fairchild limiter played a significant role in the development of the "Motown Sound"...There was not as much new experimentation going on as there was everyone trying to emulate Motown... Other than recognizing the fact that several popular artists emerged from Chicago, I still fail to see a consistent musical thread that ties them together, other than the fact that many of the artists fit into the same overall genre...Motown is it's own genre...Stax-Atlantic artists even have a recognizable sub-genre sound...Nothing similar in Chicago...While I enjoy many of the artists and material...just not hearing the common auditory theme...

[robb_k]

Actually true on Dick Jacobs...my oversight... That aside and as you know...Jackie's most identifiable hit today, Higher and Higher used Detroit musicians summoned to Chicago...I do stand by my remarks as outside of perhaps Chicago, what is being referred to here as the Chicago sound, is hardly recognized in the same vein as the "Miami Sound" with it's heavy Latin influence, the Memphis Sound with it's harsh "southern edge", the Philly Sound, New York-New Jersey street corner doo wop...even the Dick Griffey-Don Cornelius Sound of L.A. has, in my opinion, more recognizable musical similarities between the various groups... and in the general public, Chicago "soul" artists are often misidentified as "Motown" as the general public refers to those songs and artists...I fail to see the type of commonly recognized patterns that the harmonies [[Andantes, Originals) tracks [[Funk Brothers), and production that Motown as a recognizable trademark and was emulated at virtually all the smaller studios in Detroit during the 60's... There was not as much new experimentation going on as there was everyone trying to emulate Motown... Other than recognizing the fact that several popular artists emerged from Chicago, I still fail to see a consistent musical thread that ties them together, other than the fact that many of the artists fit into the same overall genre...Motown is it's own genre...Stax-Atlantic even has a recognizable sub-genre...Nothing similar in Chicago...
17645
I disagree. I can listen to a song and 99% of the time, I can tell whether or not it was recorded in Chicago, or written by Chicago songwriters, or arranged by a Chicago arranger, as opposed to being Soul from New York, or L.A. or New Orleans, or Philadelphia, or Detroit, or Memphis - ALL of which had distinctive sounds to me. Maybe it's recognising the playing of the specific session players, and those in their city who were influenced by the best of them, or recognising the songwriting of the most prolific writers, and the styles of those lesser writers who were influenced by the best, and some is hearing the familiar acoustics of the most-used studios, like Universal, Ter-Mar, Columbia, in Chicago, same as "The Snakepit", Golden World, Correc-Tone, United Sound, in Detroit, and Bell Sound and the others in New York, and the most used in L.A.? All those elements add up to making a distinct sound for those several specific cities, whereas they didn't for Cleveland, Pittsburgh, Columbus, Washington, Baltimore, Buffalo, St. Louis, Kansas City, because there just wasn't enough recording done in those [[many of the artists there went to relatively nearby larger cities to record). And Nashville, for some reason, didn't develop its own, distinctive Soul sound, despite having a fair amount recorded there [[or, at least I haven't been able to discern one or hear of one existing). Texas had a mildly distinctive sound. And the general "West" , Denver, Seattle, Minnesota, Phoenix had a mildly similar and slightly distinctive "more poppish" Soul sound.

Unfortunately I can't put the musical technicality specifics into words. But I think there are many, many others, including Bob Pruter, and many others we all know that hear these same features in combination in these songs, and would agree with me that there IS a distinctive "Chicago Sound of Soul Music".

[Boogiedown]

17644
I love Barbara Green's voice so much, I just had to post a 2nd:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cKgUqXXyuP8

That's a good one . R Parker being Ray Parker I presume?

Similar in flavor to :


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J5BRuWS9iAk

[robb_k]

17646
Here's The Vontastics:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rxbl2VDXZ0s

[robb_k]

That's a good one . R Parker being Ray Parker I presume?

Similar in flavor to :


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J5BRuWS9iAk
17647
Yes, and there's a good reason for that. Ollie McLaughlin, despite being a Michigander, and operating mainly out of Detroit, often sent his artists to Chicago to record. "Hello Stranger" was recorded at Universal Studio in Chicago, and arranged by prolific Chicago arranger, Riley Hampton, and the super group harmony background was provided by Chicago's best, The Dells. The Barbara Green cuts also had The Dells on background vocals.

"R. Parker" is Chicago producer/arranger/songwriter, Richard Parker, who, like Andre Williams, Bridges/Knight & Eaton, and others, bounced between Chicago and Detroit [[his having worked for Ed Wingate's Golden World/Ric Tic Records).

I contend that "Hello Stranger" sounds more like a "Chicago record" than a Detroit one. But, it's than hybrid area between Chicago and Detroit that contains Mary Wells' cha cha beat mis-tempo songs, and many of Jackie Wilson's cuts made in Chicago, and Jo Armstead's Giant and partnerships with Ric Williams' Zodiac and Aquarius productions, and Mike Hanks and Mike Terry's productions for Chicago labels, and Fontella Bass' "Rescue Me" and its clones, that often sound half way between the sounds of those 2 cities.

[Boogiedown]

Thanks for the info about the two Barbara records especially these details of HELLO STRANGER.
I wish there were some way to continuous play these links one after the other on my phone, I'd just let them play!!

This is a good one too

17639
Here's Joyce Kennedy:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AxMw2iQ0raI

Is that a bass sax that 's heard throughout ?

[Boogiedown]

...... it therefore reminds me of this:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=27AuSYoA1UA

[[but I'm not expecting any linkages to the two in this case!)

[MIKEW-UK]

Chicago black music went through a number of phases as it evolved. Robb- k has given a masterclass in the phase of Chicago featuring for example the sounds of Veejay, Constellation, and ABC Paramount. I can't add anything to his superb summation of that period.

Curtis Mayfield and Eddie Thomas's Curtom label had a massive impact and promoted talent such as The Impressions, Natural Four, Leroy Hutson, Linda Clifford, The Staples Singers and of course Curtis himself. So Curtom definitely contributed a great deal to giving Chicago prominence as a major force in black music.

However, when I think of the definitive Chicago Sound, I always think of Carl Davis and his work, initially with Okeh, then Brunswick in Chicago, along with Dakar, Bashie and Chi-Sound. Tyrone Davis and Walter Jackson were Carl's favourite artists and he was immensely and justifiably proud of their work. As important to him in creating what he termed The Chicago Sound were the arrangers, producers and musicians. Tom Washington, Willie Henderson, Johnny Pate, Riley Hampton, Sonny Sanders and James Mack were especially important in the realisation of Carl Davis's vision of what constituted the Chicago Sound.

Carl himself stated in his autobiography, 'The Man Behind The Music', "As a result of the collaboration between the three of us [[myself, Johnny Pate and Curtis Mayfield), we created a very hip sound. That unique blend of the horns and rhythm section, Curtis Mayfield's writing, my producing, and Johnny's arrangements, became known as what was later called the "Chicago Sound". Johnny was able to put down the kind of arrangements that no one else was doing. That's what made us better. That's what made the Chicago Sound'.

[robb_k]

Chicago black music went through a number of phases as it evolved. Robb- k has given a masterclass in the phase of Chicago featuring for example the sounds of Veejay, Constellation, and ABC Paramount. I can't add anything to his superb summation of that period.

Curtis Mayfield and Eddie Thomas's Curtom label had a massive impact and promoted talent such as The Impressions, Natural Four, Leroy Hutson, Linda Clifford, The Staples Singers and of course Curtis himself. So Curtom definitely contributed a great deal to giving Chicago prominence as a major force in black music.

However, when I think of the definitive Chicago Sound, I always think of Carl Davis and his work, initially with Okeh, then Brunswick in Chicago, along with Dakar, Bashie and Chi-Sound. Tyrone Davis and Walter Jackson were Carl's favourite artists and he was immensely and justifiably proud of their work. As important to him in creating what he termed The Chicago Sound were the arrangers, producers and musicians. Tom Washington, Willie Henderson, Johnny Pate, Riley Hampton, Sonny Sanders and James Mack were especially important in the realisation of Carl Davis's vision of what constituted the Chicago Sound.

Carl himself stated in his autobiography, 'The Man Behind The Music', "As a result of the collaboration between the three of us [[myself, Johnny Pate and Curtis Mayfield), we created a very hip sound. That unique blend of the horns and rhythm section, Curtis Mayfield's writing, my producing, and Johnny's arrangements, became known as what was later called the "Chicago Sound". Johnny was able to put down the kind of arrangements that no one else was doing. That's what made us better. That's what made the Chicago Sound'.
17648
Thanks for adding this, Mike. I am now in the process of adding some slightly later Chicago Sounds, several from Carl Davis, and some Chess sounds from Billy Davis' crew, including Flash McKinley and Carl Smith, and a few from the late '60s and beginning of the '70s.

[robb_k]

17649
Stu, your point is well taken, at least related to The Artistics, who, from the beginning had a Detroit tinge to their material and instrumentation, even singing songs by Sonny Sanders, Barrett Strong, and Staunton and Walker. Even when Carl Davis took them over to Brunswick, they still sang mainly fast songs with a similar beat to that of Motown, and other similar features. But, their big hit had a pure Chicago Sound:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=68QSSJIvE2A

[robb_k]

17650
Here's Shirley Wahls, who was mainly a Gospel singer:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xw9hf1UCprE

[MIKEW-UK]

Carl again:

”We decided collectively to try to do something different than other labels, using prominent trombones and trumpets to make the Chicago Sound distinguishable so you could recognise it. Motown had their own sound. Stax had their own sound. Los Angeles, New York and Philadelphia all had their own sounds. We purposed not to be like any of them, so we assembled a house band for any Okeh productions, who captured and mastered our distinctive sound. My usual trombonists were Morris Ellis and John Avant, and the trumpeters were Maury Watson and Paul Serrano. I primarily used John Young and Floyd Morris, jazz trained piano players. We always hired Louis Satterfield on bass, and either Al Duncan or Maurice White on drums. Phil Upchurch, Gerald Sims and Kermit Chandler were amping my frequent guitar players and Bobby Christian was my main percussionist. He could play vibes, castanets, even some guitar. One of my signature arrangements was that I always like my records to end on the title of the song. In most cases, the vamp is pretty much the chorus anyway, so we would end the songs there and then fade it out.”.

So Carl clearly set out to create a definitive, distinguishable Chicago Sound, and in his opinion succeeded in doing so. He had a formula for the construction of compositions, a house band, and a posse of arrangers who collectively created The Chicago Sound.
When he created the Bashie label, it’s tag line boldly stated on each record was “The Sound Of Chicago “. Likewise his other label was concisely named “CHI-SOUND”.

Bruce Swedien, the renowned Grammy award winning audio engineer and producer actually built a studio for Carl Davis in 1970 on South Michigan Avenue, Chicago. “I worked daily with Carl Davis. I got to record artists such as Jackie Wilson, Otis Leavill, Major Lance and Billy Butler. Our recorded sound was full of the uptown sophistication that epitomised Chicago’s 60’s soul. Every day at Brunswick Studios, I recorded the Chicago soul sound - black American music of its era, at its absolute peak”

So in conclusion, whilst there were different types of Chicago soul along the way, I would submit that the productions overseen by Carl Davis, using the house band and family of arrangers he hired, the format of the compositions, the studios, the engineering talent, and the artists he coached and mentored, created the definitive and distinctive Chicago Sound, unique to Chicago and readily identifiable.

[robb_k]

Carl again:

”We decided collectively to try to do something different than other labels, using prominent trombones and trumpets to make the Chicago Sound distinguishable so you could recognise it. Motown had their own sound. Stax had their own sound. Los Angeles, New York and Philadelphia all had their own sounds. We purposed not to be like any of them, so we assembled a house band for any Okeh productions, who captured and mastered our distinctive sound. My usual trombonists were Morris Ellis and John Avant, and the trumpeters were Maury Watson and Paul Serrano. I primarily used John Young and Floyd Morris, jazz trained piano players. We always hired Louis Satterfield on bass, and either Al Duncan or Maurice White on drums. Phil Upchurch, Gerald Sims and Kermit Chandler were amping my frequent guitar players and Bobby Christian was my main percussionist. He could play vibes, castanets, even some guitar. One of my signature arrangements was that I always like my records to end on the title of the song. In most cases, the vamp is pretty much the chorus anyway, so we would end the songs there and then fade it out.”.

So Carl clearly set out to create a definitive, distinguishable Chicago Sound, and in his opinion succeeded in doing so. He had a formula for the construction of compositions, a house band, and a posse of arrangers who collectively created The Chicago Sound.
When he created the Bashie label, it’s tag line boldly stated on each record was “The Sound Of Chicago “. Likewise his other label was concisely named “CHI-SOUND”.

Bruce Swedien, the renowned Grammy award winning audio engineer and producer actually built a studio for Carl Davis in 1970 on South Michigan Avenue, Chicago. “I worked daily with Carl Davis. I got to record artists such as Jackie Wilson, Otis Leavill, Major Lance and Billy Butler. Our recorded sound was full of the uptown sophistication that epitomised Chicago’s 60’s soul. Every day at Brunswick Studios, I recorded the Chicago soul sound - black American music of its era, at its absolute peak”

So in conclusion, whilst there were different types of Chicago soul along the way, I would submit that the productions overseen by Carl Davis, using the house band and family of arrangers he hired, the format of the compositions, the studios, the engineering talent, and the artists he coached and mentored, created the definitive and distinctive Chicago Sound, unique to Chicago and readily identifiable.
17651
I would add to that what Curtis Mayfield, Jerry Butler, Billy Butler, Major Lance, Otis Leavill were doing - which also had Carl Davis involved, and what Bunky Sheppard, Bernice Williams, Bob Lee, and Ruth Moore were doing with The Dukays, Gene Chandler, The Sheppards, which also had Carl Davis involved, and what Billy Davis was doing at Chess, what Calvin Carter was doing at VJ, and The Leaner Brothers at One-derful/Marvelous/M-Pac/Toddlin' Town. The smaller label-owners/producers including Bob Catron and Bill Ehrman's Cortland/Witch Records, Sebons Foster's Nation/Salem Records, Chuck Colbert's Tip Top/Nike/Mellow Records, USA Records, Mel London's Chief/Profile/Age/Starville/Tamboo Records, Al Benson's Glow Star/Crash/Mica Records, Leo Austell's Renee Records Group, Ran-Dee/Mar-Kie Records, James Shelton's Daran/JWO, and Barry Despenza's labels, and Don Clay and Ric Williams[[early-until he started emulating The Detroit Sound) ALL used many of the same studios, arrangers and session musicians, and so, heavily copied or fell into having a similar sound to what Carl Davis was doing.

[robb_k]

17652
Tyrone [[The Wonder Boy):

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HfFZ2n2xvQE

[robb_k]

17653
Diane Cunningham:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lOM7btQKKGI

[robb_k]

17654
Donald and The Delighters:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ji5_JleQRT4

[robb_k]

17655
Jo Armstead - even with Mike Terry arranging, it's a Chicago-style song:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LRHK09pxltI&t=1s

[robb_k]

17656
Harvey Scales and The 7 Sounds - Milwaukee Group - recorded in Chicago:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wfWaztPclS8

[robb_k]

17657
Jo Ann Garrett:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6bx-cuE9Z2E

[robb_k]

17658
The Dontells:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Lh-xcq1s_n0

[robb_k]

17659
Martha Jean Love:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=okz6ynJH-5M&list=TLPQMTYwNjIwMjAlAoBVvu3Wuw&index=27

[robb_k]

17660
I'll bet you didn't know that the bigoted ultra right winger, Henry Ford sang the first Chicago Soul record when he was young! Here's Young Henry Ford:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IyVSudPG5es

[robb_k]

17661
Here's Otis Brown and The Delights:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5CEi9TG6-0M

[robb_k]

17662
Here are The Gems - with Minnie Ripperton on lead:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yymTXiUBL3k

[robb_k]

17663
Here are The Classic Sullivans:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j0Q8YV5an1g

[robb_k]

17664
Here are The Creations, with another Vietnam Song:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7l1lrNYqSLQ

[robb_k]

17665
Here are The Trends - The OTHER Tommy Dorsey's group:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h9CyYh9738w&list=RDv1T9NWNCAcs&index=2

[robb_k]

17666
The Ivorys:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ccT6c_zg1xY

[robb_k]

17667
The Fascinators- NOT The Detroit group:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fbDyEjlAZe0

[robb_k]

17668
Reginald Day:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZBwc5YtAvMA

[robb_k]

17669
The Carltons - who copied The Impressions:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B421st2GOOk

[robb_k]

17670
Mary Wells was also sent to Carl Davis in Chicago, to revive her career:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jGpJHUeefzc

[robb_k]

17671
The Emeralds:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hbCOswtIz_U

[robb_k]

17672
The Scott Brothers:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7utkzOE6_HQ

[robb_k]

17673
Barbara Acklin's first solo record:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TS3m0A-e92Q

[robb_k]

17674
The Cheers, with little Ben Norfleet on lead:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8LBj7l7TlTc

[robb_k]

17675
Prince Curtis [[AKA Curtis Prince):

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DzKts6H-E3M

[robb_k]

17676
Fred Hughes:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eiTWDZMBN_o

[robb_k]

17677
Maurice Jackson - owner of Maurci Records:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RijvankEJFA

[robb_k]

17678
Newday:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8gbwxA4EMc4

[robb_k]

17679
Joe Murphy, ex lead of The Five Jets:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lBNRCPGRUqk

[robb_k]

17680
Denise LaSalle:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rvhiwvU_m1Q

[robb_k]

17681
The Peaches:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9mD7S7U356Q&list=RD9mD7S7U356Q&start_radio =1&t=24

[robb_k]

17682
Bobby Hutton [[AKA Harold Hutton):

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0XyPDOIFzb0

[robb_k]

17683
Nolan Chance [[AKA Charles Davis):

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lU8XYvFH8-g

[MIKEW-UK]

If you are interested in a playlist of more than 4 hours of Chicago Soul Music mid 60s though 70s, I have a playlist on Spotify. It is entitled 'Chicago Sounds Of Soul'.

If you subscribe to Spotify then you will get continuous music with no adverts. Cheers Mike

https://open.spotify.com/playlist/6nimeGUuTvBhh1BgFfz0uW?si=6qj-YwsESaqZlW-N4If8pQ

[heikki]

Hi!

I noticed one interesting detail among those Robb's fine examples above : It's A Weakness that Joe Murphy recorded in 1964 - as well as the A-side - was written by two members of the Dells - Chuck Barksdale and Mickey McGill - as well as Wade Flemons and Barrett Strong.

Best regards
Heikki

[robb_k]

Hi!

I noticed one interesting detail among those Robb's fine examples above : It's A Weakness that Joe Murphy recorded in 1964 - as well as the A-side - was written by two members of the Dells - Chuck Barksdale and Mickey McGill - as well as Wade Flemons and Barrett Strong.

Best regards
Heikki
17715
Yes, from 1963-64, Barrett Strong was working in Chicago, for VJ, [[and later, in 1965, at Columbia/Okeh, with Carl Davis' crew). At VJ, he worked along with A&R Man/chief producer, Calvin Carter, other main producer, Richard Parker, Jerry Butler, Curtis Mayfield, The Dells, Wade Flemons, Bunky Sheppard, Al Perkins, Dee Clark, arrangers Riley Hampton, Al Smith, and Johnny Pate, and others on VJ's Soul songwriting and recording sessions. He was one of VJ's chief songwriters, and an assistant producer with both Carter and Parker.

He filled a similar role with Carl Davis' production crew at Okeh Records from early 1965 through early 1966, working with The Artistics, Major Lance, Billy Butler, and on Davis' work for ATCO with Mary Wells, and for Davis' work with Ewart Abner, Bunky Sheppard's, and Art Sheridan's Constellation Records, with Gene Chandler, Bobby Miller, and Dee Clark, before he returned to Motown later in 1966.

Barret had moved to Chicago in 1962, while he had his artist contract with ATCO Records, and he had one 45 released on that label, and also had a 45 released on VJ's Tollie Records subsidiary, in 1964. He also worked on productions with VJ's other subsidiary, Vivid Records, in 1964.

[heikki]

Thank you, Robb, for this information.
I wasn't aware of Barrett's work in Chicago in THAT amount.

Best regards
Heikki

[splanky]

Hi!

I noticed one interesting detail among those Robb's fine examples above : It's A Weakness that Joe Murphy recorded in 1964 - as well as the A-side - was written by two members of the Dells - Chuck Barksdale and Mickey McGill - as well as Wade Flemons and Barrett Strong.

Best regards
Heikki

I'm getting all kinds of interesting and surprising information following and researching
things in this thread. Re the Barrett Strong mention if you check wikipedia or the often
disappointing allmusicguide there's no mention of him ever doing anything pre Motown.
That he knew The Dells and in fact later in their careers did go back and work for them
again makes we wonder if they and the Temptations had ever crossed paths. Anyway
on the album Barrett did arrangement they were guested by Theresa Davis who for
almost 4 years sang in The Emotions though allmusic makes no mention of that either.
Wade Flemons went on to be in the first edition of Earth Wind and Fire which Maurice
had to fire as he revealed in his memoirs Wade was trying to take ownership of the group
which he'd built from the ashes of his earlier group, The Salty Peppers....

[MIKEW-UK]

Back in 2011, Marv, Timmy and others discussed the documentary on Chicago's Record Row and it is timely to watch it again. It covers artists, labels, distributors, and all aspects of the evolving sounds of Chicago. Cheers Mike


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d_M1AY8Pu7M

[robb_k]

I'm getting all kinds of interesting and surprising information following and researching
things in this thread. Re the Barrett Strong mention if you check wikipedia or the often
disappointing allmusicguide there's no mention of him ever doing anything pre Motown.
That he knew The Dells and in fact later in their careers did go back and work for them
again makes we wonder if they and the Temptations had ever crossed paths. Anyway
on the album Barrett did arrangement they were guested by Theresa Davis who for
almost 4 years sang in The Emotions though allmusic makes no mention of that either.
Wade Flemons went on to be in the first edition of Earth Wind and Fire which Maurice
had to fire as he revealed in his memoirs Wade was trying to take ownership of the group
which he'd built from the ashes of his earlier group, The Salty Peppers....
17717
That move by Barrett to Chicago, recording for other labels, and working in production, was NOT "pre-Motown", it was BETWEEN his 2 stints at Motown. His work in production and songwriting at VJ and Okeh gave him the experience to be re-hired by Motown[[1966), and write for other artists, and significantly, Motown's most important artists, and also work in production of their records [[Temptations and others), upon his return, rather than having had previously written only bluesy songs mainly for himself, and a paltry few for similar Bluesy artists like Gino Parks and Mable John [[1959-61), to work in Motown's top level.

[splanky]

17716
That move by Barrett to Chicago, recording for other labels, and working in production, was NOT "pre-Motown", it was BETWEEN his 2 stints at Motown. His work in production and songwriting at VJ and Okeh gave him the experience to be re-hired by Motown[[1966), and write for other artists, and significantly, Motown's most important artists, and also work in production of their records [[Temptations and others), upon his return, rather than having had previously written only bluesy songs mainly for himself, and a paltry few for similar Bluesy artists like Gino Parks and Mable John [[1959-61), to work in Motown's top level.

"Pre" was the wrong word, Robb, I know. I should have said "outside" of Motown when I
made my criticism of how inaccurate some online "musicologists" can be....

[heikki]

Hi!

I went back to my 3-part Dells Story [[published already in 1998) to see, if the guys had something special to say about Barrett, who co-wrote "Stay In My Corner", but they concentrated on Bobby Miller instead.
Also his song "You Can Depend On Me" on the Dells 1988 album , The Second Time, didn't attract enough attention for comments. It's a nice beat-ballad, though.

Best regards
Heikki

[arr&bee]

Great post,this is why[sdf]is the best soooo much music history!

[arr&bee]

Weren't the vontastics from chicago?

[robb_k]

Weren't the Vontastics from Chicago?
17735
Yes, they were. Their first recording contract was a result of their winning a contest sponsored by The Chess Brothers' radio station, WVON. They ended up getting a recording contract with Chess-distributed Satellite Records. They recorded 3 of my favourite Chicago-Sound records: "Peace Of Mind", "I'll Never Say Goodbye" [[video above), and Keep On Rolling".

[robb_k]

17736
Here's "Keep On Rolling"

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7LxEBq7WrVg

[robb_k]

17737
Here's "Peace Of Mind"

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vkSLS2GYHmI

[arr&bee]

I love their remake of the beatles-we can work it out.

[robb_k]

I love their remake of the beatles-we can work it out.
17738
Do you also like their labelmates, The Ideals' remake of "Cathy's Clown"?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8YSfMlApc2Q

[MIKEW-UK]

Here's a rare one by General Crook. "In The Warmth Of My Arms". Written by Wade Flemons, Maurice White and Don Whitehead, original members of The Salty Peppers from which evolved Earth Wind And Fire......


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iNqUDWb2Kz8

[MIKEW-UK]

And here's a nice short personal documentary on Tom Tom Washington, freshly posted on Youtube.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zjtsZ51cOYY

[splanky]

Here's a rare one by General Crook. "In The Warmth Of My Arms". Written by Wade Flemons, Maurice White and Don Whitehead, original members of The Salty Peppers from which evolved Earth Wind And Fire......


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iNqUDWb2Kz8

General Crook was so deserving of a larger career. He had so much soul. This track
reeks of it to me...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cvWbuiGermM

[MIKEW-UK]

Hi splanky, I couldn't agree more regarding General Crook, and the record you selected is his very best IMO. I thought his song writing and phasing was so identifiable. As his recorded output was so slim, I am glad to get anything he did. And here's an absolute favourite composed by General, reeks of him :D, and sadly much overlooked. "Message To The World", performed by The Chi-Lites, uncredited lead vocal by Frank Reed who took over when Eugene departed to go solo. All the usual Chicago crew in attendance for this 1976 recording, produced by Marshall Thompson but most importantly arranged by Tom Tom Washington.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vby73yWHVKE

[splanky]

Hi splanky, I couldn't agree more regarding General Crook, and the record you selected is his very best IMO. I thought his song writing and phasing was so identifiable. As his recorded output was so slim, I am glad to get anything he did. And here's an absolute favourite composed by General, reeks of him :D, and sadly much overlooked. "Message To The World", performed by The Chi-Lites, uncredited lead vocal by Frank Reed who took over when Eugene departed to go solo. All the usual Chicago crew in attendance for this 1976 recording, produced by Marshall Thompson but most importantly arranged by Tom Tom Washington.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vby73yWHVKE

I missed this track. The Chilites fell off my crew's radar after Gene left, for some even
before over some tunes that though I could enjoy them they found them "too depressing"....

[robb_k]

17824
Here's a nice song from 1970 by Chicago's Superbs. Alteen Records was about a mile and a half northwest of my house, and about one mile south of my father's store:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f3GTqV9mXzg&list=PLiZXL28n5D0fuUNN81f_kGDE zUfjWZ6Ev&index=161

[robb_k]

17825
Here are The Ideals:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xFKLPCncYOQ&list=PLiZXL28n5D0fuUNN81f_kGDE zUfjWZ6Ev&index=56

[robb_k]

17826
Here's another Alteen Record from Sunday Williams:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WqiBIQfAUXA

[robb_k]

17827
This is sort of a Chicago/Detroit hybrid, with Mike Terry arranging, but its a Chicago-written song, with a sound of Chicago. Those are Chicago type strings, and a Chicago style song-Garland Green's first that I know:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RwO1NX9gTx8&list=PLiZXL28n5D0fuUNN81f_kGDE zUfjWZ6Ev&index=155

[robb_k]

17828
Here are The Buckner Brothers:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9GOZHo1Zay8&list=PLiZXL28n5D0fuUNN81f_kGDE zUfjWZ6Ev&index=211

[robb_k]

17829
Here's a New York, Brill Building song [[by Jerry Goffin and Carole King [[no less), recorded in Chicago's Universal Sound Studio, by a Chicago producer, and using a Chicago arranger, Chicago musicians [[note the Chicago-style guitar and horns), all for a Chicago Juke Box factory and distributor, to supply their customers with extra records to fill their boxes, and to play when they get tired of hearing current hits. I'll have to admit, that this is one of the best "budget records" I've ever heard. Note that The Ink Spots, Mills Brothers, and some other famous groups and single artists recorded budget records during the '50s and '60s. If you've ever wanted to hear what a Brill Building song would sound like if it were recorded in Chicago, this is your chance:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eLUf52IfaOo&list=PLiZXL28n5D0fuUNN81f_kGDE zUfjWZ6Ev&index=65

[robb_k]

17830
Here's one by Chicago's Dontells that I bet none of you have heard. It was recorded by VJ A&R man, Calvin Carter, at Universal in 1965, and arranged by Johnny Pate, and never released until 2017:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TubxZQudUfM&list=PLiZXL28n5D0fuUNN81f_kGDE zUfjWZ6Ev&index=216

[robb_k]

17831
Here are The Dynamics on Brainstorm - the label where The Emotions started:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I249WRw0-EM&list=PLiZXL28n5D0fuUNN81f_kGDEzUfjWZ6Ev&index= 2 25

[robb_k]

17832
Here's a dead rare record - only 10 copies known to exist-The Classics [[Eddie Sullivan's group-singing a Billy McGregor song[[He's a 1st cousin of Detroit drummer George McGregor):

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jACSECVrnG4&list=PLiZXL28n5D0fuUNN81f_kGDE zUfjWZ6Ev&index=323

[robb_k]

17833
Here's The Marvelows singing a Curtis Mayfield tune arranged by Johnny Pate:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vH0tlSP7qU8&list=PLiZXL28n5D0fuUNN81f_kGDE zUfjWZ6Ev&index=237

[robb_k]

17834
Here's Major Lance singing his first recorded song, written by Curtis Mayfield:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KXOYtIagJCg&list=PLiZXL28n5D0fuUNN81f_kGDE zUfjWZ6Ev&index=269

[robb_k]

17836
Here are Chicago's legendary Steelers, another group from my favourite DJ, Al Benson's labels:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2KrkjIhLdLY

[robb_k]

17837
Even though everyone has heard this a million times, I couldn't leave it off, as it's the epitome of The Chicago Sound:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OcZkS0qstRU

[robb_k]

17838
I also couldn't leave this off:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l4VigMq9YZ4

[robb_k]

17839
It seems that Seeburg Juke Box Co. had a VERY unusual low-budget record label, which provided filler records for their Juke Box customers. Unlike Hit Records, and Tops Records, and all the others, that made mostly poor quality versions of current hit records, Seeburg used some of the best musicians, arrangers and recording studios in their main city, Chicago, and also [[to a lesser extent), in their other city, Nashville. This lead singer has a familiar voice. I think she is a reasonably well-known Chicago Soul singer from the 1960s. See if you can identify her voice. I hear some of the better Chicago session players in this song's instrumentation [[as I did in "Oh No, Not My Baby", above. We should also try to figure out who sang THAT song. I feel confident that I've identified the lead singer in the song I'm going to post next:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IUBA74cTLqQ
The background singers sound like The Starlets, but the lead doesn't.

[robb_k]

17840
This group sounds very like Chicago's Kittens. The lead singer sounds like their lead, Bernice Wills. Just listen to "Hey Operator" and "Ain't No More Room" and tell me if I'm right or wrong. But first, listen to this Motown almost cover remake:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a8rsu4EgYjw

[robb_k]

17841
This version of "Twine Time" is excellent. I like it better than the original. The mix is cleaner, and it's more Jazzy. The guitarist may even be Phil Upchurch. These are really good musicians. It's so hard to believe, after having heard all the drek Hit, and Tops, and the other 1950s budget record labels put out. Hard to understand how they were able to hire some of the high quality musicians, arrangers and singers, and even record in good sound studios. I guess there were enough competent people in each field that wanted to make extra money, even at a lower rate than usual, and sound studios wanted to fill up their empty time slots [[possibly for less than usual?). Listen to the nice organ playing and the great guitar and sax solos:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kSjUQP39smg

[MIKEW-UK]

Some really interesting tracks, Robb. What strikes me is just how 'charming' so many of these records were. They are a real pleasure to discover for the first time. Your knowledge and time are much appreciated!

[heikki]

Thank you, Robb!

I enjoyed this music.
The lady on "You Beat Me to the Bunch" sounds really familiar, but I'm afraid to guess yet.
I'm sure I have one or some of her records.

Best regards
Heikki

[robb_k]

17842
There is one more "Soul" genre song on Seeburg that sounds like a Chicago record, it's a cover, or fairly quick remake of Jan Bradley's "I'm Over You". It's a little down in quality in relation to the other Seeburgs above [[e.g. a little more like a budget knockoff - but still much higher quality than all the non-Seeburg labels).

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4VIocilhrvA
Interesting that at the end of the song, the lead couldn't follow Jan's ending, because she didn't have nearly Jan's large range, so she couldn't even try to reach the higher notes, so it was a much less energetic and emotional finish, leaving a letdown to the listener.

[robb_k]

17852
I so enjoyed hearing the great Jazz musicians play on Seeburg's instrumental recordings that I'm going to start another, separate thread for them, because they are not "Chicago Sound" records. So, give it a look, and listen, as there are some quality sounds among them. It may be fun to listen to the individual musicians and see if we can recognise them.

[robb_k]

Thank you, Robb!

I enjoyed this music.
The lady on "You Beat Me to the Bunch" sounds really familiar, but I'm afraid to guess yet.
I'm sure I have one or some of her records.

Best regards
Heikki
17851
Yes, her voice sounds very familiar, - but not as a Chicago artist. So, maybe she recorded in Nashville. But, the band sounds like recognisable Chicago musicians, and the acoustics sound like Chicago's Universal Sound Studio. So, maybe the instrumental and background vocal tracks were recorded in Chicago, and the lead singer in Nashville?

[robb_k]

17855
Here's a '70s sound of Chicago that is typical of "The Chicago Sound" developed by Curtis Mayfield, Carl Davis, Billy Davis, Bill Sheppard, The Leaner Brothers, Calvin Carter, Johnny Pate, Riley Hampton, Marshall Thompson, Eugene Record, Al Smith, Gerald Sims, Monk Higgins, and the rest. It was brought up by Mr. June in another thread. He said, "I think it was a local Chicago record". That brought Stu Bass' comment that "Chicago didn't have a distinctive sound of it's own like Detroit, Memphis, Philadelphia" to mind. And I still have to disagree strongly. You just have to hear the first few bars of THIS song to KNOW it came out of Chicago:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=131&v=UdP2ooO76rI&feature=emb_ logo

[dylan]

Hey folks,
Here's an interview with Aaron Cohen, author of the book, "Move On Up: Chicago Soul Music and Black Cultural Power."

From the 'Sound Opinions" podcast
#765 Chicago Soul
55 minutes [[Jul 24, 2020)

"From Curtis Mayfield to Minnie Riperton, Jim and Greg explore the Chicago Soul scene. They’ll examine how the music tells the story of political and cultural change in Chicago. Plus, they look at the movement’s lasting impact."

https://podbay.fm/p/sound-opinions/e/1595556000

or

https://sound-opinions.simplecast.com/episodes/765-chicago-soul-FZlC6E1G [[https://sound-opinions.simplecast.com/episodes/765-chicago-soul-FZlC6E1G)

"Curtis Mayfield. The Chi-Lites. Chaka Khan. Chicago's place in the history of soul music is rock solid. But for Chicagoans, soul music in its heyday from the 1960s to the 1980s was more than just a series of hits: it was a marker and a source of black empowerment. In Move On Up, Aaron Cohen tells the remarkable story of the explosion of soul music in Chicago. Together, soul music and black-owned businesses thrived. Record producers and song-writers broadcast optimism for black America's future through their sophisticated, jazz-inspired productions for the Dells and many others. Curtis Mayfield boldly sang of uplift with unmistakable grooves like "We're a Winner" and "I Plan to Stay a Believer." Musicians like Phil Cohran and the Pharaohs used their music to voice Afrocentric philosophies that challenged racism and segregation, while Maurice White of Earth, Wind, and Fire and Chaka Khan created music that inspired black consciousness. Soul music also accompanied the rise of African American advertisers and the campaign of Chicago's first black mayor, Harold Washington, in 1983. This empowerment was set in stark relief by the social unrest roiling in Chicago and across the nation: as Chicago's homegrown record labels produced rising stars singing songs of progress and freedom, Chicago's black middle class faced limited economic opportunities and deep-seated segregation, all against a backdrop of nationwide deindustrialization. Drawing on more than one hundred interviews and a music critic's passion for the unmistakable Chicago soul sound, Cohen shows us how soul music became the voice of inspiration and change for a city in turmoil."

P.S.
'Couldn't make the first link "clickable." You'll have to "copy and paste."
'Sorry

[mr_june]

Robb, have you read the book "Move On Up" by Aaron Cohen? I found it while placing a hold on the "Chicago Soul" book. It's just as good and they both compliment each other. Also, do you know if Carlton Black is still around?

[robb_k]

Robb, have you read the book "Move On Up" by Aaron Cohen? I found it while placing a hold on the "Chicago Soul" book. It's just as good and they both compliment each other. Also, do you know if Carlton Black is still around
18059
Hi June,
No, I haven't read that book. I'll give it a look.

Sorry to tell you that Carlton passed on last October. It's getting scary. So many people around my age are leaving us.