Motown: The Vows " Tell Me" 45 V.I.P. 25016 May 1965

[marv2]

This is a rare little gem. I don't ever remember hearing it:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WpfyPmW7g6k

[soulwally]

Yes it’s a good one Marv. It was on one of the Motown Connoisseurs type CDs in the UK. there's also this version reputedly by Frank Wilson

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6Oa5QvAJzG0

[robb_k]

Yes it’s a good one Marv. It was on one of the Motown Connoisseurs type CDs in the UK. there's also this version reputedly by Frank Wilson

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6Oa5QvAJzG0
17499
That's DEFINITELY NOT Frank Wilson!!!!! IF ANYBODY has a distinctive voice that CAN'T be mistaken, it's Frank Wilson.

As far as I know, only The Vows[[2 different takes), and The Versatiles [[later The Fifth Dimension)-who recorded for Motown in 1965, before they changed their name, and signed with Johnny Rivers' Soul City Records, and returned to Motown, many years later), recorded that song. The recording on the retro 45 above sounds A LOT more lie The Versatiles than Frank Wilson, and a lot more like The Versatiles than The Vows.

Play it next to all the Frank Wilson cuts available. You'll hear that it sounds NOTHING like Frank. What a BAD guess!!! If you're a Northern Soul DJ, and you've found a previously unknown, unmarked tape of a hot dancer, you should run it by the Motown experts before pressing it on a 45 with a very unsure GUESS as to who is singing it!!

My guess is that it's The Versatiles. In fact, after playing it a few times, it seems to be The Versatiles' cut that I know. So, it may be that we only have 2 versions by The Vows.

[mysterysinger]

Both versions sound very good but the second one isn't Frank Wilson. Given the female interplay I'd suggest that Robb has it with The Versatiles.

The Vows made some excellent recordings for Motown but not very many in total. Aside from the single "Buttered Popcorn / Tell Me" [[obviously on TCMS), I have only 2 other sides on them - "Show Girl" which I love from Cellarful 2 and "My Baby Changes Like The Weather" from Cellarful 4. Kinda leaves you wanting much more doesn't it?


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U37SfR3vJbQ







/

[mysterysinger]

"My Baby Changes Like The Weather"...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7r2T4Qj3MFc

[Roger Polhill]

It does sound like Billy Davis to me now that you mentioned it Robb. I never thought anything of it until now. I presume he was with the Delicates at that time.

[robb_k]

It does sound like Billy Davis to me now that you mentioned it Robb. I never thought anything of it until now. I presume he was with the Delicates at that time.
17501
Billy Davis was with The Versatiles in 1965, before they changed their name to The Fifth Dimension. After their local L.A. hit, "You're Good Enough For Me", they came to see Berry Gordy, to try to get signed by Motown. At first, he didn't. But, soon after he brought them in to L.A. Jobete offices, to record some songs. I believe that the background tracks for those were recorded in Detroit. I've heard at least 3 or 4 from that period. The reason The Fifth Dimension was recorded by Johnny Rivers' Soul City Records, was that the group was disappointed either that they were not given a release for several months after that, or that they were never even signed to a group recording contract. It's interesting that they came back and were signed to Motown many years later.

The 3 or 4 cuts I heard may have been only demos, for Berry to decide if he would sign them as Motown artists. I'm not sure if the digital releases on them were bootlegs or not. If they were not signed by Motown until the 1970s, no official releases of their demos could occur. I don't remember an actual "official" Motown-authorised release of any of them.

[robb_k]

It does sound like Billy Davis to me now that you mentioned it Robb. I never thought anything of it until now. I presume he was with the Delicates at that time.
17502
Yes, just play this bootlegged [[Frank Wilson) cut back-to-back with "Your Good Enough For Me" by The Versatiles, and I'm sure you'll all agree.
I'm guessing that the bootlegger was a Northern Soul DJ who wanted to have that song on his advertised play list as an exclusive - no other DJ could get a copy of it, as no one could find it, because a Frank Wilson version didn't exist. So, he could enjoy the benefit of being the only one who could play it for at least several months, until, perhaps, it would be "played out", anyway.

After several plays, back-to-back, I have no doubt that "Frank Wilson" is really Billy Davis, leading The Versatiles, I also recognise the distinctive voices of both the group's women in the background.

It's no surprise that Motown ended up recording them, as Marc Gordon was the one who recorded their Bronco Record, and he, together with Hal Davis, were the chief producers and managers of Jobete Music, L.A. The Versatiles probably sang some backgrounds on some of their other productions, just like Brenda and Patrice Holloway, Pat Hunt, Mary Love, and Gloria Jones did.

[Roger Polhill]

Wow Robb your knowledge is amazing. Sorry I mean`t the Versatiles. I do have a note that Frank Wilson did record this song although it`s probably a demo.Is there any chance of this?

[robb_k]

Wow Robb your knowledge is amazing. Sorry I mean`t the Versatiles. I do have a note that Frank Wilson did record this song although it`s probably a demo.Is there any chance of this?
17503
Absolutely!! I have no doubt that he DID record it, as he wrote the song. He usually came up with the first version, or first stanzas of each song, when he wrote together with Marc Gordon. Then, they'd work on it together, and usually, Frank would record a demo version to give to the artist[[s), as a singing guide. Many, many of the demo records were thrown out during Motown's move to L.A. That's why a LOT more Jobete Music acetates were kept than record demos, because the former were used to prove ownership of the song publishing rights.

[paul_nixon]

17503
Absolutely!! I have no doubt that he DID record it, as he wrote the song. He usually came up with the first version, or first stanzas of each song, when he wrote together with Marc Gordon. Then, they'd work on it together, and usually, Frank would record a demo version to give to the artist[[s), as a singing guide. Many, many of the demo records were thrown out during Motown's move to L.A. That's why a LOT more Jobete Music acetates were kept than record demos, because the former were used to prove ownership of the song publishing rights.

Absolutely spot on with your stab at the Versatiles - records show that there is only one take of this track by the group - not even a multi track - my guess is that it could have been a 'bought in' master - so there's relatively no chance of a Frank Wilson demo of this being in the vaults. If it did happen then maybe, just maybe as you say there could have been an acetate but I would have guessed it would have shown up by now. Funny how DJ's 'cover' things up to keep them secure but you also find they sometimes make a wild stab at a guess and get it wrong.

[robb_k]

Absolutely spot on with your stab at the Versatiles - records show that there is only one take of this track by the group - not even a multi track - my guess is that it could have been a 'bought in' master - so there's relatively no chance of a Frank Wilson demo of this being in the vaults. If it did happen then maybe, just maybe as you say there could have been an acetate but I would have guessed it would have shown up by now. Funny how DJ's 'cover' things up to keep them secure but you also find they sometimes make a wild stab at a guess and get it wrong.
17505
Very true. However, Frank Wilson's voice is so unique, one wouldn't think that after many years of hearing "Do I Love You" and "Sweeter As The Days Go By", any NS fan could mistake Billy Davis' higher and smoother voice for Frank's deeper voice. I would have ruled out anyone being satisfied to give up guessing and just go with that guess, knowing it couldn't be correct.

My guess is that there WAS an acetate. It may have been lifted at the time so many of them were removed from Motown[[between 1980 and 1990), and just stayed in the hands of a collector until he died, or was forced to sell it, needing the money. Everybody and his mother wanted to collect ALL Motown issues. Not all of those collectors were British, and not all wanted their collection known to the public. I've been collecting ALL Motown since they started in 1959. How many Brits, or Americans know what records I have or don't have?

I saw the great bulk of Jobete and Motown acetates and vinyl demo records at Motown all through the 1970s. Yet there have been several popping up over the years that I hadn't seen, and it surprises me. Yet, I wouldn't be surprised to see a few more pop up, here and there, over the next several years [[IF I survive this pandemic).