British GQ: 16 Diana Ross songs to cushion the blow of missing her Glastonbury set

[monicarivers]

Some interesting choices!

https://www.gq-magazine.co.uk/culture/article/diana-ross-songs

[lucky2012]

Would we even have modern pop and R&B without Diana Ross? Arguably not. Her blend of sexuality, sensuality, camp and soul is written into the DNA of every single pop star – of every gender and every race – since she left The Supremes and released her first solo album in 1970.[/LEFT]]
Love this quote from the article.

Love the song choices, but especially Where There Was Darkness, Chain Reaction, That's How You Start Over and I Won't Last A Day Without You. I'm gonna play them right now.

[Ollie9]

Good selection. All the songs listed are winners as far as i’m concerned. Nice to see ross 83 represented. Delighted to see the superb Shep Pettibone remix of “Paradise get a nod.

[SatansBlues]

Interesting article but I do have a bone to pick, and I've seen this written about Diana Ross more than once but NEVER about any other singer, male or female. The author writes, "Is Ross the greatest singer of all time? I don't even think she would argue she is." Like where do you F*CKIN get off making such an ASININE statement. Like would the author ever ask Beyonce or Paul McCartney to their face if they had the nerve to think that they were the best singer in the world? I've never seen it asked of Aretha Franklin or Marvin Gaye, Barbara Streisand or Beyonce or Bono or Mick Jagger or Taylor Swift. Like what's the point of that sentence? Whenever its written, who ever writes that statement ALWAYS FAILS to name who the best singer is. Are they saying that DR doesn't deserve all the hits that she's had because THEY don't think she has the best voice? It's a bulls*t statement and I'd like to punch the writer in their dumb face for making such an ASININE statement. Ok, I'm done...for now.

[reese]

Interesting article but I do have a bone to pick, and I've seen this written about Diana Ross more than once but NEVER about any other singer, male or female. The author writes, "Is Ross the greatest singer of all time? I don't even think she would argue she is." Like where do you F*CKIN get off making such an ASININE statement. Like would the author ever ask Beyonce or Paul McCartney to their face if they had the nerve to think that they were the best singer in the world? I've never seen it asked of Aretha Franklin or Marvin Gaye, Barbara Streisand or Beyonce or Bono or Mick Jagger or Taylor Swift. Like what's the point of that sentence? Whenever its written, who ever writes that statement ALWAYS FAILS to name who the best singer is. Are they saying that DR doesn't deserve all the hits that she's had because THEY don't think she has the best voice? It's a bulls*t statement and I'd like to punch the writer in their dumb face for making such an ASININE statement. Ok, I'm done...for now.

I agree with you although I don't think I'd punch anyone in the face over it. ;)

But yes, I have read too many articles that say something similar, even by people who claim to be fans. They'll say "She wasn't the prettiest" or "She didn't have the best voice." As if they have the definitive opinion. But Diana's had the last laugh, hasn't she? She's still here, and still kicking it!

[Roberta75]

A real great song list. Im gonna play these this weekend.

[vgalindo]

Interesting article but I do have a bone to pick, and I've seen this written about Diana Ross more than once but NEVER about any other singer, male or female. The author writes, "Is Ross the greatest singer of all time? I don't even think she would argue she is." Like where do you F*CKIN get off making such an ASININE statement. Like would the author ever ask Beyonce or Paul McCartney to their face if they had the nerve to think that they were the best singer in the world? I've never seen it asked of Aretha Franklin or Marvin Gaye, Barbara Streisand or Beyonce or Bono or Mick Jagger or Taylor Swift. Like what's the point of that sentence? Whenever its written, who ever writes that statement ALWAYS FAILS to name who the best singer is. Are they saying that DR doesn't deserve all the hits that she's had because THEY don't think she has the best voice? It's a bulls*t statement and I'd like to punch the writer in their dumb face for making such an ASININE statement. Ok, I'm done...for now.

So true. I am too so sick of this comment. It makes no sense.

[Jaap]

Interestingly, the latest June [[!!!) issue of MOJO Magazine includes a long article on Diana Ross and also has a page with 10 "Diana Ross nuggets and oddities"...

17376

[sansradio]

Interestingly, the latest June [[!!!) issue of MOJO Magazine includes a long article on Diana Ross and also has a page with 10 "Diana Ross nuggets and oddities"...

17376

This is what it’s all about! Nice to see that Geoff Brown, her early biographer, is still in the game. Thanks for sharing!

[Ollie9]

Interestingly, the latest June [[!!!) issue of MOJO Magazine includes a long article on Diana Ross and also has a page with 10 "Diana Ross nuggets and oddities"...

17376

This is good to see. Surprised by a couple of the selections though.

[sophisticated_soul]

This is what it’s all about! Nice to see that Geoff Brown, her early biographer, is still in the game. Thanks for sharing!

Thanks for jogging [[what' left of) my memory sans, I knew that name sounded familiar.:)
17377

[lucky2012]

Thanks again, Jaap! Interesting mix. This might have been a start for a 10 Hidden Nuggets thread [[if not already done).

[Levi Stubbs Tears]

I suppose quite a few magazines had stories assigned/prepared for Diana's tour.

[Ollie9]

Interesting article but I do have a bone to pick, and I've seen this written about Diana Ross more than once but NEVER about any other singer, male or female. The author writes, "Is Ross the greatest singer of all time? I don't even think she would argue she is." Like where do you F*CKIN get off making such an ASININE statement. Like would the author ever ask Beyonce or Paul McCartney to their face if they had the nerve to think that they were the best singer in the world? I've never seen it asked of Aretha Franklin or Marvin Gaye, Barbara Streisand or Beyonce or Bono or Mick Jagger or Taylor Swift. Like what's the point of that sentence? Whenever its written, who ever writes that statement ALWAYS FAILS to name who the best singer is. Are they saying that DR doesn't deserve all the hits that she's had because THEY don't think she has the best voice? It's a bulls*t statement and I'd like to punch the writer in their dumb face for making such an ASININE statement. Ok, I'm done...for now.

i think your post is a total over reaction. Yes, I agree, when discussing who is the greatest singer of all time is it is totally subjective to the individual. Having said, I don’t think you have to be a Ross hater to point out she might not have the strongest voice in the world as it mentions here. To me the whole article reads as a positive and complementary reflection on Diana as a singer/performer.
P.S Punching people in the face is never a good idea. It’s just not a civilised thing to do.

[SatansBlues]

i think your post is a total over reaction. Yes, I agree, when discussing who is the greatest singer of all time is it is totally subjective to the individual. Having said, I don’t think you have to be a Ross hater to point out she might not have the strongest voice in the world as it mentions here. To me the whole article reads as a positive and complementary reflection on Diana as a singer/performer.
P.S Punching people in the face is never a good idea. It’s just not a civilised thing to do.
So how does having a "strong voice" equate to being a "better" or the "best" singer? Are only black female singers who sound like Aretha, Etta James or Mahalia Jackson legitimate singers or the best singers? I reject that line of thinking, its just stupid. I find it interesting that white singers, males and females, aren't judged by that standard. What white male singer has the strongest voice? What white female singer has the strongest voice? Why aren't they judged by the same standard that DR is judged by?

And let's be honest, when you make an ASININE statement like that, you DESERVE to be punched in the face by total strangers.

[midnightman]

Uh...

Yeah I'm gonna leave this alone and say I agree with Ollie9. Moving on...

[lucky2012]

I've seen and heard Diana Ross herself disclaim the idea of her being "the best" or "greatest" singer in a couple of interviews. Both times I thought it was unfortunate and, most of all, unnecessary and really wished she hadn't said those words. To me it is all really meaningless.

[SatansBlues]

I've seen and heard Diana Ross herself disclaim the idea of her being "the best" or "greatest" singer in a couple of interviews. Both times I thought it was unfortunate and, most of all, unnecessary and really wished she hadn't said those words. To me it is all really meaningless.
Was she just being modest? I've never heard any singer ever proclaim theirselves to be the greatest or best singer of all time. Better yet, I've never heard or read any singer being asked that question. I do recall on the Motown 40th Anniversary Special she said during an interview that she never considered herself to be a "soul singer", but rather more of a "pop" singer. She never downplayed her singing ability or gift. Regardless of what one might think of her voice, you cannot deny her success, popularity or longevity.

[vgalindo]

So how does having a "strong voice" equate to being a "better" or the "best" singer? Are only black female singers who sound like Aretha, Etta James or Mahalia Jackson legitimate singers or the best singers? I reject that line of thinking, its just stupid. I find it interesting that white singers, males and females, aren't judged by that standard. What white male singer has the strongest voice? What white female singer has the strongest voice? Why aren't they judged by the same standard that DR is judged by?

And let's be honest, when you make an ASININE statement like that, you DESERVE to be punched in the face by total strangers.
So very true. I never hear people say Barbra Streisand has a better, stronger voice than Olivia Newton John or Karen Carpenter. But that’s the first thing people bring up about Diana Ross. And how everyone else has a stronger, greater voice.
And in my opinion Diana Ross is better than all of them. Her voice touches me like no other!

[SatansBlues]

So very true. I never hear people say Barbra Streisand has a better, stronger voice than Olivia Newton John or Karen Carpenter. But that’s the first thing people bring up about Diana Ross. And how everyone else has a stronger, greater voice.
And in my opinion Diana Ross is better than all of them. Her voice touches me like no other!
I think one of the reason people make that statement is because their favorite singer never had the success of Diana Ross or broke ground like DR or had television specials like DR or had as many #1 hits as DR. So to try and downplay her success they turn to the narrative of "she doesn't have the strongest voice or she's not a soul singer". I've seen it often enough to really understand what they're truly saying, and as the great philosopher and poet Katt Williams once said, "Haters are just doing their job."

[Guy]

So how does having a "strong voice" equate to being a "better" or the "best" singer? Are only black female singers who sound like Aretha, Etta James or Mahalia Jackson legitimate singers or the best singers? I reject that line of thinking, its just stupid. I find it interesting that white singers, males and females, aren't judged by that standard. What white male singer has the strongest voice? What white female singer has the strongest voice? Why aren't they judged by the same standard that DR is judged by?


First, I love that the article acknowledged that Ross DNA is in every contemporary female pop singer regardless of race or culture -- Madonna, JLo, Janet, Katy Perry, Gaga, Mariah, Beyonce, etc. That is a rare acknowledgment for Ross fans and we should luxuriate in it.


Next, even Ross would acknowledge that to be regarded as a 'great' singer you have to have a facile jazz instrument [[Ella, Sarah), a powerful belting voice [[Streisand, Ronstadt, Whitney, etc.), a rich gospel-trained vocal style [[Aretha, Gladys, Mahalia) -- or a lesser instrument that lays bare the truth your existence [[Billie, Dusty, Janis, Winehouse).


Ross is -- purposefully -- too restrained and too polished to rate on any of those counts. She is made for mass consumption, no rough edges and no trace of who she is or where she came from -- only what she [[and you) can be. Everything that makes her fabulous could also be said to make her inauthentic. Can anyone live a life of non-stop joy, glamour, excitement, inspiration, sensuality and exuberance?


Yes, Ross can.

[Ollie9]

Perhaps David Levesley is a racist Ross hater in disguise. It really is all to silly for words.
I find all this talk of punching people in the face quite childish and rather distasteful.. As i have previously posted, i think the article a really positive and respectful feature on Diana. Thank the heavens he never mentioned the Return To Love Tour!! lol.

[SatansBlues]

First, I love that the article acknowledged that Ross DNA is in every contemporary female pop singer regardless of race or culture -- Madonna, JLo, Janet, Katy Perry, Gaga, Mariah, Beyonce, etc. That is a rare acknowledgment for Ross fans and we should luxuriate in it.


Next, even Ross would acknowledge that to be regarded as a 'great' singer you have to have a facile jazz instrument [[Ella, Sarah), a powerful belting voice [[Streisand, Ronstadt, Whitney, etc.), a rich gospel-trained vocal style [[Aretha, Gladys, Mahalia) -- or a lesser instrument that lays bare the truth your existence [[Billie, Dusty, Janis, Winehouse).


Ross is -- purposefully -- too restrained and too polished to rate on any of those counts. She is made for mass consumption, no rough edges and no trace of who she is or where she came from -- only what she [[and you) can be. Everything that makes her fabulous could also be said to make her inauthentic. Can anyone live a life of non-stop joy, glamour, excitement, inspiration, sensuality and exuberance?


Yes, Ross can.

I think DR is a GREAT singer, on of the BEST in recording history. Her chart history, touring success and longevity is testament to just how GREAT she really is. She's been in the game for close to 60 years and still remains relevant and in demand. Not many singers, male or female, pop, soul or jazz can say that. I think one things that disturbs some folks about DR style is that she defies category or stereotype and they can't put her in a box. She has successfully sung pop, r&b, blues, jazz, broadway, and even did a country western and pop album. Most of those singers that you listed never stretched themselves to cover such a wide genre of music. I think your description of her is off target and nonsensical, at best. Too restrained? Too polished? Too fabulous? What does that even mean? It just makes no sense. And when has DR ever said that her life has been non-stop joy and excitement? That's just ridiculous.

[SatansBlues]

Perhaps David Levesley is a racist Ross hater in disguise. It really is all to silly for words.
I find all this talk of punching people in the face quite childish and rather distasteful.. As i have previously posted, i think the article a really positive and respectful feature on Diana. Thank the heavens he never mentioned the Return To Love Tour!! lol.

First of all you should google the word HYPERBOLE. *eyeroll*.

[lucky2012]

Was she just being modest? I've never heard any singer ever proclaim theirselves to be the greatest or best singer of all time. Better yet, I've never heard or read any singer being asked that question. I do recall on the Motown 40th Anniversary Special she said during an interview that she never considered herself to be a "soul singer", but rather more of a "pop" singer. She never downplayed her singing ability or gift. Regardless of what one might think of her voice, you cannot deny her success, popularity or longevity.

It's been a while so I can't recall the contexts. I don't believe she was asked the question. I don't think she was being modest. I believe she was just expressing her love of singing and entertaining an audience.

I've never heard any singer proclaim themselves the best or greatest either. [[How off-putting that would be, to me.) Admirers or fans of any singer won't see the point.

I do recall an acquaintance [[older and more of the Sinatra/Fitzgerald generation) on hearing Diana Ross comparing her voice negatively to other singers, saying to me, "Can you believe it? Geez, why even bother to say something like that?" This person didn't know I even listened to Ross.

It does seem that Ross's "instrument" has often been compared and/or commented on more. Maybe we notice it because we follow her more closely.

I recall a pop music critic [[Ann Powers) writing a powerful article about valuing voices as different as Aretha Franklin and Diana Ross. One of her points was that "pop" voices are not given the same value or respect as "soul/gospel" voices, and why they should be. Diana Ross was her prime example. I remember saying amen and hallelujah as this was long overdue.

[Jaap]

I recall a pop music critic [[Ann Powers) writing a powerful article about valuing voices as different as Aretha Franklin and Diana Ross. One of her points was that "pop" voices are not given the same value or respect as "soul/gospel" voices, and why they should be. Diana Ross was her prime example. I remember saying amen and hallelujah as this was long overdue.

I guess this is the article?
https://www.latimes.com/archives/la-xpm-2007-jan-28-ca-dreamgirls28-story.html

[lucky2012]

I guess this is the article?
https://www.latimes.com/archives/la-xpm-2007-jan-28-ca-dreamgirls28-story.html

YES!! Thank you, once again, Jaap!

[Ollie9]

First of all you should google the word HYPERBOLE. *eyeroll*.

Something tells me your not being as honest as you could be. lol. ;)

[SatansBlues]

I guess this is the article?
https://www.latimes.com/archives/la-xpm-2007-jan-28-ca-dreamgirls28-story.html
Thanks for posting this, what a great read. I hope some folks in this thread take the time to read and digest it.

[lucky2012]

YES!! Thank you, once again, Jaap!

And here is Ann Powers' review of I Love You from 2007:
https://www.latimes.com/archives/la-xpm-2007-jan-17-et-albums17-story.html#


"Despite her stranglehold on immortality, Ross is a star whose worthiness many love to doubt. It’s not just her notorious imperiousness, endless self-love or nouveau riche glam-itude. The deeper problem is her music. Discussion of Ross tends to focus on what she’s not [[a big-voiced mama, a trained jazz singer) than what she is: a pop stylist who responded to the freedom of the rock era with a style based on her patented sighs and coos, her candy-sweet upper register, instead of on traditional “chops.” Ross has been unfairly dubbed a lightweight, when she’s really an individualist."

[SatansBlues]

Something tells me your not being as honest as you could be. lol. ;)
Did you google the word yet?

[lucky2012]

I guess I don't know how to copy an html. Quotes from the review:


“I Love You” is a covers collection as curiously distinctive as the voice of the diva it serves -- a voice that’s remarkably supple at 62. [/LEFT]]



The album’s title track and its one original song is a clean-lined, unapologetically sentimental ballad that would, in fact, be great at a wedding, and Ross’ interpretation is lovely, as simple as a white dress.

[Ollie9]

First, I love that the article acknowledged that Ross DNA is in every contemporary female pop singer regardless of race or culture -- Madonna, JLo, Janet, Katy Perry, Gaga, Mariah, Beyonce, etc. That is a rare acknowledgment for Ross fans and we should luxuriate in it.


Next, even Ross would acknowledge that to be regarded as a 'great' singer you have to have a facile jazz instrument [[Ella, Sarah), a powerful belting voice [[Streisand, Ronstadt, Whitney, etc.), a rich gospel-trained vocal style [[Aretha, Gladys, Mahalia) -- or a lesser instrument that lays bare the truth your existence [[Billie, Dusty, Janis, Winehouse).


Ross is -- purposefully -- too restrained and too polished to rate on any of those counts. She is made for mass consumption, no rough edges and no trace of who she is or where she came from -- only what she [[and you) can be. Everything that makes her fabulous could also be said to make her inauthentic. Can anyone live a life of non-stop joy, glamour, excitement, inspiration, sensuality and exuberance?


Yes, Ross can.

An intelligent and on point post guy. I think some like to look for demons where none lurk.

[Guy]

An intelligent and on point post guy. I think some like to look for demons where none lurk.

Thanks, Ollie9. I appreciate your thoughtful contributions to this discussion.

As we've seen here at SD, some people lack the facility for thoughtful analysis, or are starved for attention, or just love the sound of their own voice. Best to leave them to it.

[jim aka jtigre99]

Diana Ross is a unique singer. She is very pliable in many different genres but she is not the strongest singer and she has a very thin voice and many equate quality with strong and loud vocals which are popular on shows like The Voice,etc. Others who are popular singers who would not be considered "the best" include Cher, Britney Spears and Madonna yet, like Ross, they are all superstars whose voice has touched so many and have a huge amount of fans because of their uniqueness.

[vgalindo]

Diana Ross is a unique singer. She is very pliable in many different genres but she is not the strongest singer and she has a very thin voice and many equate quality with strong and loud vocals which are popular on shows like The Voice,etc. Others who are popular singers who would not be considered "the best" include Cher, Britney Spears and Madonna yet, like Ross, they are all superstars whose voice has touched so many and have a huge amount of fans because of their uniqueness.
You lost me when you compared her to Britney and Madonna. I like to see them sing these songs.
And this is just a small example. You see I consider her one of the best.

https://youtu.be/BvrHY_5koHM

https://youtu.be/jyM9sRqR9Uk

https://youtu.be/CrtQs88JWyI

https://youtu.be/oWH2aFYB2c8

https://youtu.be/JMzUFwcuE4A

[Ollie9]

You lost me when you compared her to Britney and Madonna. I like to see them sing these songs.
And this is just a small example. You see I consider her one of the best.

https://youtu.be/BvrHY_5koHM

https://youtu.be/jyM9sRqR9Uk

https://youtu.be/CrtQs88JWyI

https://youtu.be/oWH2aFYB2c8

https://youtu.be/JMzUFwcuE4A

By the same token I can’t really imagine Diana singing “you’ll See” or “Don’t Cry For
For Me Argentina”. Their vocal approach and style are totally different. It’s all subjective.

[jim aka jtigre99]

You lost me when you compared her to Britney and Madonna. I like to see them sing these songs.
And this is just a small example. You see I consider her one of the best.

https://youtu.be/BvrHY_5koHM

https://youtu.be/jyM9sRqR9Uk

https://youtu.be/CrtQs88JWyI

https://youtu.be/oWH2aFYB2c8

https://youtu.be/JMzUFwcuE4A
All of them are quite different singers with a devoted fan base who feel that their singers are the best. technically, none of them possess what critics would consider the best voice. I wasn't comparing their voices, just that each had a unique voice which has captured superstardom. I love Diana Ross' voice but I can see where technically she would not be considered one of the best by critics. In fact, reviews stated that Jean Terrell was a much better singer if not quite so unique and others have stated that Florence Ballard had the best voice in the original Supremes and that once Scherrie Payne and Susaye Greene joined the Supremes were never better technically and talentwise. It was not to say Miss Ross is not talented and very unique but in the parameters of critic's concensus of "the best" she may not be thought of in that way just as Cher,Madonna and Britney Spears are also not thought of in that way despite becoming superstars and having a voice that touched many more than so-called "best" voices.

[SatansBlues]

All of them are quite different singers with a devoted fan base who feel that their singers are the best. technically, none of them possess what critics would consider the best voice. I wasn't comparing their voices, just that each had a unique voice which has captured superstardom. I love Diana Ross' voice but I can see where technically she would not be considered one of the best by critics. In fact, reviews stated that Jean Terrell was a much better singer if not quite so unique and others have stated that Florence Ballard had the best voice in the original Supremes and that once Scherrie Payne and Susaye Greene joined the Supremes were never better technically and talentwise. It was not to say Miss Ross is not talented and very unique but in the parameters of critic's concensus of "the best" she may not be thought of in that way just as Cher,Madonna and Britney Spears are also not thought of in that way despite becoming superstars and having a voice that touched many more than so-called "best" voices.
A "critic" has NEVER gotten me to every buy one record, one book, one movie ticket, concert ticket, one meal, or a vacation. A critic is just someone with an opinion. They are not the definitive authority on anything. I think the only people who follow critics either can't think for themselves or someone who needs to follow the crowds and trends. And isn't it interesting that male singers are judged for greatness by a different standard, the strength of their voices are NEVER mentioned when it comes to greatness, apparently only Diana Ross's voice is. I wonder if it's because of racism, sexism or pure jealous of her success.

[midnightman]

Even Diana would agree that she's not the greatest singer - and she's said that numerous times - but she made it work. That's what is important.

SHE MADE IT WORK. And because of that, other singers who may not be as earth shattering as Whitney or Mariah could still shine because Diana showed them the way.

Instead of finding negativity, THINK POSITIVE. Diana would want us to be in that space.

[SatansBlues]

Even Diana would agree that she's not the greatest singer - and she's said that numerous times - but she made it work. That's what is important.

SHE MADE IT WORK. And because of that, other singers who may not be as earth shattering as Whitney or Mariah could still shine because Diana showed them the way.

Instead of finding negativity, THINK POSITIVE. Diana would want us to be in that space.
There's no such thing as "the greatest singer". I believe that a person can have a favorite singer or favorite singers but factually there is no such thing as the "greatest singer" because greatness is purely subjective.

[Ollie9]

A "critic" has NEVER gotten me to every buy one record, one book, one movie ticket, concert ticket, one meal, or a vacation. A critic is just someone with an opinion. They are not the definitive authority on anything. I think the only people who follow critics either can't think for themselves or someone who needs to follow the crowds and trends. And isn't it interesting that male singers are judged for greatness by a different standard, the strength of their voices are NEVER mentioned when it comes to greatness, apparently only Diana Ross's voice is. I wonder if it's because of racism, sexism or pure jealous of her success.

No one has a definitive authority on opinion Satan, but there is such a thing as general consensus. It’s not definitive, but rather acts as a guide based on collective opinion by the majority. It most certainly does not stop people from thinking for themselves as you mention.
The general consensus is that Diana does indeed have a thin voice, but possesses many other attributes that compensate for this weakness. I really can’t imagine such opinion is due to jealously of her success. That’s just silly.

[khansperac]

I think the point is, why does it always have to be said? There are many singers who don’t “belt”, Roberta Flack or Sade, or Karen Carpenter for instance, and I’ve never seen their voices described as weak when discussing them. The same goes for the whole “she wasn’t the best looking member of the group” thing. What does that have to do with anything? Millions think she was. Let’s say for argument sake she was ugly. Do less attractive people not deserve success? I actually think the “wasn’t best singer, or best looking” statement often repeated is just lazy reporting of what can now be considered “urban legend”.

[lucky2012]

I think the point is, why does it always have to be said? There are many singers who don’t “belt”, Roberta Flack or Sade, or Karen Carpenter for instance, and I’ve never seen their voices described as weak when discussing them. The same goes for the whole “she wasn’t the best looking member of the group” thing. What does that have to do with anything? Millions think she was. Let’s say for argument sake she was ugly. Do less attractive people not deserve success? I actually think the “wasn’t best singer, or best looking” statement often repeated is just lazy reporting of what can now be considered “urban legend”.

This really is the point. The other point is the meaninglessness of "greatest" or "best" singer. Consensus of what? Critics? They are a tiny fraction and they don't all "agree".

[SatansBlues]

I think the point is, why does it always have to be said? There are many singers who don’t “belt”, Roberta Flack or Sade, or Karen Carpenter for instance, and I’ve never seen their voices described as weak when discussing them. The same goes for the whole “she wasn’t the best looking member of the group” thing. What does that have to do with anything? Millions think she was. Let’s say for argument sake she was ugly. Do less attractive people not deserve success? I actually think the “wasn’t best singer, or best looking” statement often repeated is just lazy reporting of what can now be considered “urban legend”.
I agree with everything that you wrote. How is this so hard for some individual to acknowledge this simple truth? Or even acknowledge the DOUBLE STANDARD when it comes to female singers. I've never ever heard of a male singer being judge by the strength of their voice or by their looks or being put down by their looks. I truly believe that these things are brought up about DR to try and distract from her success or popularity.

[SatansBlues]

No one has a definitive authority on opinion Satan, but there is such a thing as general consensus. It’s not definitive, but rather acts as a guide based on collective opinion by the majority. It most certainly does not stop people from thinking for themselves as you mention.
The general consensus is that Diana does indeed have a thin voice, but possesses many other attributes that compensate for this weakness. I really can’t imagine such opinion is due to jealously of her success. That’s just silly.
There are plenty o critics who would not describe her voice as thin or weak. You don't reach DR's level or success or longevity with a thin or weak voice. To say otherwise is just silly.

[vgalindo]

I think the point is, why does it always have to be said? There are many singers who don’t “belt”, Roberta Flack or Sade, or Karen Carpenter for instance, and I’ve never seen their voices described as weak when discussing them. The same goes for the whole “she wasn’t the best looking member of the group” thing. What does that have to do with anything? Millions think she was. Let’s say for argument sake she was ugly. Do less attractive people not deserve success? I actually think the “wasn’t best singer, or best looking” statement often repeated is just lazy reporting of what can now be considered “urban legend”.
Thank you very much. This is so true.

[Ollie9]

You don't reach DR's level or success or longevity with a thin voice.

Well obviously you can lol. Just Look at all that Diana has achieved.
I would not describe her voice as weak as she could belt when she wanted to. It’s just that as critics often point out, her tone can sound rather thin at times. That is probably what that nasty writer was referencing before going on to say that it really didn’t matter as she has influenced so many other singers and is considered a superstar in the true sense of the word.
Whatever, it certainly does not stop her from being my favourite female singer.

[Ollie9]

I think the point is, why does it always have to be said? There are many singers who don’t “belt”, Roberta Flack or Sade, or Karen Carpenter for instance, and I’ve never seen their voices described as weak

Thats because most would consider they have a fuller tone to their voices. I have read many a music review where Roberta’s voice is referred to as small and contained.
To say that Diana’s voice is always referred to as weak is utter bullshit.

[SatansBlues]

Thats because most would consider they have a fuller tone to their voices. I have read many a music review where Roberta’s voice is referred to as small and contained.
To say that Diana’s voice is always referred to as weak is utter bullshit.
Oh so now the measuring stick has changed to the tone of a singers voice? LOL ok...

So answer me this, who are the greatest male singers? And how do or would you measure their greatness? Is it the strength of their voice, is it their "tone"?

[Ollie9]

Oh so now the measuring stick has changed to the tone of a singers voice? LOL ok...

So answer me this, who are the greatest male singers? And how do or would you measure their greatness? Is it the strength of their voice, is it their "tone"?

The tone is what adds body to the voice. It’s not about measuring greatness, it’s about a general consensus that defines the majority. I love Diana’s voice, but am able to acknowledge its limitations and the way it might be perceived.
I rather think we are going round in circles here.

[Ollie9]

I truly believe that these things are brought up about DR to try and distract from her success or popularity.

If that really is what you truly believe then i find that rather worrying. Did you actually read the full article. It’s best to understand that in the real world not everyone worships in the church of Diana. It is often a place for a more balanced opinion.

[SatansBlues]

The tone is what adds body to the voice. It’s not about measuring greatness, it’s about a general consensus that defines the majority. I love Diana’s voice, but am able to acknowledge its limitations and the way it might be perceived.
I rather think we are going round in circles here.
Again, I ask who are the "greatest male singers". I've asked a couple times and you've never responded.

[SatansBlues]

If that really is what you truly believe then i find that rather worrying. Did you actually read the full article. It’s best to understand that in the real world not everyone worships in the church of Diana. It is often a place for a more balanced opinion.
I just think that we see and hear things differently. You look for the strength of a female singer's voice and then the "tone", what ever that means. I think most people look to neither, but rather how a song makes them feel or their general response to a song or singer, or how a singer is able or unable to bring life to a song to evoke some sort of emotion or reaction. DR has made a successful career out of bringing songs to life and giving them feeling. You don't need a "strong voice" like Aretha or Patti L. to bring a song to life, but you do need the ability to bring a song to life and give it meaning and feeling. That's a better measure of a singer than just the strength of their voice or "tone".

[Ollie9]

Again, I ask who are the "greatest male singers". I've asked a couple times and you've never responded.

It’s irrelevant.

[SatansBlues]

It’s irrelevant.
Sounds to me like you don't want to admit to a double standard. Got it. Next.

[Ollie9]

I just think that we see and hear things differently. You look for the strength of a female singer's voice and then the "tone", what ever that means. I think most people look to neither, but rather how a song makes them feel or their general response to a song or singer, or how a singer is able or unable to bring life to a song to evoke some sort of emotion or reaction. DR has made a successful career out of bringing songs to life and giving them feeling. You don't need a "strong voice" like Aretha or Patti L. to bring a song to life, but you do need the ability to bring a song to life and give it meaning and feeling. That's a better measure of a singer than just the strength of their voice or "tone".

Nah, I think the difference between us is that I can understand how Diana’s voice might be perceived by the media as being a little thin and you can’t. End of really.
What i do find a little disheartening is that on this and a few other recent articles, Diana is finally being recognised as the trail blazer she is. In what should be a moment of celebration for all Ross fans there is always the one that manages to turn a positive into a negative. Well done.

[SatansBlues]

Nah, I think the difference between us is that I can understand how Diana’s voice might be perceived by the media as being a little thin and you can’t. End of really.
What i do find a little disheartening is that on this and a few other recent articles, Diana is finally being recognised as the trail blazer she is. In what should be a moment of celebration for all Ross fans there is always the one that manages to turn a positive into a negative. Well done.
Great deflection, well done, if not obvious.

[Ollie9]

Great deflection, well done, if not obvious.

Oh dear. :eek: