All the Befores

[midnightman]

I know folks are gonna be scratching their heads as I say this but I feel this was the best track of her early solo career [[save for ANMHE, Surrender and ROIBT):


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HbcS-mVWTkQ

Ashford & Simpson were some of the only producers who REALLY understood her IMHO when it came to her solo career.

[blkfrost]

This is an excellent track. Love the piano at the end. Once again this is a great album. The only track I would replace is "I'm A Winner" for "Baby, I'll Come".

[PeaceNHarmony]

Love ATB as well.

[reese]

SURRENDER was just a great album all around. As much as I like many of her later albums, IMO, the sound captured on early solo albums never surfaced again after LADY SINGS THE BLUES.

[RanRan79]

I know folks are gonna be scratching their heads as I say this but I feel this was the best track of her early solo career [[save for ANMHE, Surrender and ROIBT):


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HbcS-mVWTkQ

Ashford & Simpson were some of the only producers who REALLY understood her IMHO when it came to her solo career.

No scratching of the head over here. I've played this song to death. She doesn't tear through it like she does some of the other cuts, like "A Simple Thing", but it's still a very passionate vocal. And the lyrics are so serious. I love it.

[RanRan79]

Ashford & Simpson were some of the only producers who REALLY understood her IMHO when it came to her solo career.

I would say they understood the direction her music should've been going in. Artistically I feel many of her other producers understood what to do with her voice, even if they were taking her in a direction that I personally feel was not conducive to hit songs. But A&S understood what to do with her voice and with the material.

[RanRan79]

SURRENDER was just a great album all around. As much as I like many of her later albums, IMO, the sound captured on early solo albums never surfaced again after LADY SINGS THE BLUES.

I think some of the outtakes for Last Time were more a return to the early solo sound, but I more or less agree with your assessment.

[mindful1]

yes a soothing tune, understated but memorable. touching and not syrupy. I always remember my best friend said this album represented my taste for overproduced songs, that made me mad! compared to today's hyperproductions this album is class and restrained lol

[Ollie9]

I think some of the outtakes for Last Time were more a return to the early solo sound, but I more or less agree with your assessment.

I guess one could argue that to a degree her sound evolved. Berry wanted her to appeal to as wide an audience as possible. That being the reason she experimented with so many different musical genres. Sometimes this strategy worked, at other times less so.

[benross]

Album highlights for me: Remember Me, And If You See Him, All The Befores and Did You Read The Morning Papers.

Album highlights from her first solo album: Reach Out & Touch [[Somebody's Hand), Ain't No Mountain High Enough, I Wouldn't Change The Man He Is, Where There Was Darkness and Can't It Wait Until Tomorrow.

Ashford & Simpson really came into their own* in producing these albums; they seemed in sync, mostly, with who Diana Ross was at that point in her life, what she could do and where she should be headed.

* Listen, back-to-back, to Bring Back The Sunshine [[1966) by The Velvelettes and Dark Side Of The World [[1969) by Marvin Gaye and [[1970) by Diana Ross. The evolution of this song demonstrates how Ashford & Simpson at this point had come to recognize the importance of arranging, reworking and editing the gist and essence of a composition, constructing, in the end, what seemed to be a custom-written tune for Diana Ross and creating, in the process, another minor masterpiece.

[Jaap]

Although I've always loved Diana's performance of the song, All the Befores, I also always have been troubled by its lyrics. I might have been over-interpreting, but it seems to be about a very abusive relationship to me, with the woman returning to her man "without pride" and promising him "to be nothing but yours" although she has "reasons for leaving."

[sup_fan]

No scratching of the head over here. I've played this song to death. She doesn't tear through it like she does some of the other cuts, like "A Simple Thing", but it's still a very passionate vocal. And the lyrics are so serious. I love it.

i play this all the time too and always include it in playlists. sure she's not tearing it like she does Surrender or a similar song. but damn! talk about emotive!! she delivers a gorgeous vocal. and the track is stunning

[sup_fan]

Album highlights for me: Remember Me, And If You See Him, All The Befores and Did You Read The Morning Papers.

Album highlights from her first solo album: Reach Out & Touch [[Somebody's Hand), Ain't No Mountain High Enough, I Wouldn't Change The Man He Is, Where There Was Darkness and Can't It Wait Until Tomorrow.

Ashford & Simpson really came into their own* in producing these albums; they seemed in sync, mostly, with who Diana Ross was at that point in her life, what she could do and where she should be headed.

* Listen, back-to-back, to Bring Back The Sunshine [[1966) by The Velvelettes and Dark Side Of The World [[1969) by Marvin Gaye and [[1970) by Diana Ross. The evolution of this song demonstrates how Ashford & Simpson at this point had come to recognize the importance of arranging, reworking and editing the gist and essence of a composition, constructing, in the end, what seemed to be a custom-written tune for Diana Ross and creating, in the process, another minor masterpiece.

Dark Side of the World is another gem. love the A&S stuff

i actually pulled together an A&S playlist. all of the diana solo, the duet work with Sups/Tops, Marvin and Tammi, the handful of tracks with MRATV and Marvelettes. it's interesting to hear their work across a variety of singers

[RanRan79]

Although I've always loved Diana's performance of the song, All the Befores, I also always have been troubled by its lyrics. I might have been over-interpreting, but it seems to be about a very abusive relationship to me, with the woman returning to her man "without pride" and promising him "to be nothing but yours" although she has "reasons for leaving."

I figured he was a serial cheater that she couldn't shake. He cheats, she leaves, she returns, repeat. It's a sad song because the lady is basically broken down and she's dealing with a dude that knows it and doesn't care.

[sup_fan]

i took the lyrics to mean she, the singer and narrator, keeps making foolish decisions to leave him but he's true to her and she sees that, comes back

[JohnnyB]

i took the lyrics to mean she, the singer and narrator, keeps making foolish decisions to leave him but he's true to her and she sees that, comes back

I’ve always felt the lyrics were similar to By The Time I Get To Phoenix, telling a tale of someone who hasn’t been strong enough to really leave a painful relationship. I didn’t get an abusive vibe, but just my two cents...

[midnightman]

Although I've always loved Diana's performance of the song, All the Befores, I also always have been troubled by its lyrics. I might have been over-interpreting, but it seems to be about a very abusive relationship to me, with the woman returning to her man "without pride" and promising him "to be nothing but yours" although she has "reasons for leaving."

The song was about a cheater, I think.

[Ollie9]

I figured he was a serial cheater that she couldn't shake. He cheats, she leaves, she returns, repeat. It's a sad song because the lady is basically broken down and she's dealing with a dude that knows it and doesn't care.

That's pretty much the way i interpret the lyrics. This is the only song on the album i have trouble with. The melody and the singing are great, but those lyrics are just toooo defetest. You feel like telling her "Go on now go, walk out the door" lol.

[benross]

sup_fan: I hope that your A&S playlist also included the Gladys Knight & The Pips songs and, especially, the Bobby Taylor & The Vancouvers' track I Am Your Man, which offered up a truly superb performance; surprisingly, I enjoyed Bobby Taylor & The Vancouvers' rendition much more than The Four Tops' version of that song. Smokey Robinson & The Miracles' arrangement of You Ain't Living Until Your Loving was interesting but probably the least satisfying, for me, of the multiple recordings of that tune.

When I put together an A&S compilation, a curiosity was that It Ain't Like That was used as a title twice, first for a Val & Nick song, maybe my favorite of their earliest recordings, then second for a Martha Reeves & The Vandellas throw-away kind of song. I liked hearing the Rita Wright originals of several songs Diana Ross recorded later, and I thought that The Four Tops' recordings of Don't You Think You Owe Me Something and Can't Seem To Get You Out Of My Mind were quite good.

Another almost-repeat title was The Real Thing [[recorded by Betty Everett) and Ain't Nothing Like The Real Thing [[introduced by Marvin Gaye & Tammi Terrell).

World Without Sunshine and Back To Nowhere, two perfectly realized cuts from the Valerie Simpson solo albums, might have been good for Diana Ross. Gimme Something Real, the first Ashford & Simpson Warner Brothers album, remains my favorite of their own recordings following the Motown years.

[sup_fan]

i put all of the A&S songs that i could find in my itunes. I don't have the Vancouvers so that one isn't there. And i don't have any Gladys tunes in there either! but i have pretty much all of their Motown albums. problem is they don't identify the producers

what tracks?

[RanRan79]

That's pretty much the way i interpret the lyrics. This is the only song on the album i have trouble with. The melody and the singing are great, but those lyrics are just toooo defetest. You feel like telling her "Go on now go, walk out the door" lol.

LOL Right!

It's not often that we hear Diana in such a low place, but she plays the part well. [[It may have even fit her relationship with Gordy.) I wish the album didn't end with "All the Befores". It might have been interesting for the album to have a concept direction moving along with the tracklist. Now as best as I could, I have tried to give the album that direction, although it turned out to be a bit more difficult than I anticipated. Surely, had A&S had a direction in mind some songs would've been scrapped and replaced with more appropriate cuts. But here goes:

"I'll Settle For You" opens the show. Diana is still in the good phase of the relationship, though one might ponder the fact that she's "settling" for him. Next is "Surrender", and shit has gone south. She's feeling like he's withholding love. She's pacing the floor at night because his ass is out doing who knows what. She's crying. She's begging. He's used and abused her, so much so that she has felt like death is a better option. She demands he get his shit together. So while she's clearly in the midst of a horrible relationship, she still has some fight left. "I Can't Give Back the Love" finds that dude still won't act right, and so now she's left [[or kicked him out), but she is still hung up on him. "And If You See Him" finds her so emotionally spent that she's placing all of the blame upon herself and is begging him to come back. Apparently he comes back but now his shenanigans are so unashamed that he's attending media spectacles with the other woman in "Did You Read the Morning Paper". So now she leaves again, except she's so beaten down that she returns once again in "All the Befores", even while fully recognizing that she's in the worst relationship, but love is a helluva drug. Of course nothing changes, and the next time he hits her in the heart it hurts so bad that she can't even muster up the tears in "A Simple Thing Like Cry". But everyone has their bottom, and Diana finally has reached hers with "Remember Me". She takes the high road wishing this asshole the very best, while subtly reminding him of what he has lost. Sometime has passed and she runs into dude only to find that he now knows the pain of heartache in "Didn't You Know You'd Have To Cry Sometime". Everything he did to her, someone is doing to him. She walks away from that encounter singing her favorite Martha Reeves and the Vandellas song [[:cool:), "I'm A Winner" as she meets up with her current dude.

The one song that gave me the most trouble was "Reach Out I'll Be There". I considered placing it after "Remember Me" as the moment where she falls for someone again, but it didn't feel as right as some of the other placements.

[mindful1]

LOL Right!

It's not often that we hear Diana in such a low place, but she plays the part well. [[It may have even fit her relationship with Gordy.) I wish the album didn't end with "All the Befores". It might have been interesting for the album to have a concept direction moving along with the tracklist. Now as best as I could, I have tried to give the album that direction, although it turned out to be a bit more difficult than I anticipated. Surely, had A&S had a direction in mind some songs would've been scrapped and replaced with more appropriate cuts. But here goes:

"I'll Settle For You" opens the show. Diana is still in the good phase of the relationship, though one might ponder the fact that she's "settling" for him. Next is "Surrender", and shit has gone south. She's feeling like he's withholding love. She's pacing the floor at night because his ass is out doing who knows what. She's crying. She's begging. He's used and abused her, so much so that she has felt like death is a better option. She demands he get his shit together. So while she's clearly in the midst of a horrible relationship, she still has some fight left. "I Can't Give Back the Love" finds that dude still won't act right, and so now she's left [[or kicked him out), but she is still hung up on him. "And If You See Him" finds her so emotionally spent that she's placing all of the blame upon herself and is begging him to come back. Apparently he comes back but now his shenanigans are so unashamed that he's attending media spectacles with the other woman in "Did You Read the Morning Paper". So now she leaves again, except she's so beaten down that she returns once again in "All the Befores", even while fully recognizing that she's in the worst relationship, but love is a helluva drug. Of course nothing changes, and the next time he hits her in the heart it hurts so bad that she can't even muster up the tears in "A Simple Thing Like Cry". But everyone has their bottom, and Diana finally has reached hers with "Remember Me". She takes the high road wishing this asshole the very best, while subtly reminding him of what he has lost. Sometime has passed and she runs into dude only to find that he now knows the pain of heartache in "Didn't You Know You'd Have To Cry Sometime". Everything he did to her, someone is doing to him. She walks away from that encounter singing her favorite Martha Reeves and the Vandellas song [[:cool:), "I'm A Winner" as she meets up with her current dude.

The one song that gave me the most trouble was "Reach Out I'll Be There". I considered placing it after "Remember Me" as the moment where she falls for someone again, but it didn't feel as right as some of the other placements. Amazing how they all seem to fit seamlessly!

[Ollie9]

LOL Right!

It's not often that we hear Diana in such a low place, but she plays the part well. [[It may have even fit her relationship with Gordy.) I wish the album didn't end with "All the Befores". It might have been interesting for the album to have a concept direction moving along with the tracklist. Now as best as I could, I have tried to give the album that direction, although it turned out to be a bit more difficult than I anticipated. Surely, had A&S had a direction in mind some songs would've been scrapped and replaced with more appropriate cuts. But here goes:

"I'll Settle For You" opens the show. Diana is still in the good phase of the relationship, though one might ponder the fact that she's "settling" for him. Next is "Surrender", and shit has gone south. She's feeling like he's withholding love. She's pacing the floor at night because his ass is out doing who knows what. She's crying. She's begging. He's used and abused her, so much so that she has felt like death is a better option. She demands he get his shit together. So while she's clearly in the midst of a horrible relationship, she still has some fight left. "I Can't Give Back the Love" finds that dude still won't act right, and so now she's left [[or kicked him out), but she is still hung up on him. "And If You See Him" finds her so emotionally spent that she's placing all of the blame upon herself and is begging him to come back. Apparently he comes back but now his shenanigans are so unashamed that he's attending media spectacles with the other woman in "Did You Read the Morning Paper". So now she leaves again, except she's so beaten down that she returns once again in "All the Befores", even while fully recognizing that she's in the worst relationship, but love is a helluva drug. Of course nothing changes, and the next time he hits her in the heart it hurts so bad that she can't even muster up the tears in "A Simple Thing Like Cry". But everyone has their bottom, and Diana finally has reached hers with "Remember Me". She takes the high road wishing this asshole the very best, while subtly reminding him of what he has lost. Sometime has passed and she runs into dude only to find that he now knows the pain of heartache in "Didn't You Know You'd Have To Cry Sometime". Everything he did to her, someone is doing to him. She walks away from that encounter singing her favorite Martha Reeves and the Vandellas song [[:cool:), "I'm A Winner" as she meets up with her current dude.

The one song that gave me the most trouble was "Reach Out I'll Be There". I considered placing it after "Remember Me" as the moment where she falls for someone again, but it didn't feel as right as some of the other placements.

I agree in that the album should not have closed with “All The Before's”. “I’m A Winner” would have made for a nice uplifting number to finish on expressing a sentiment that is totally Diana.

[reese]

i put all of the A&S songs that i could find in my itunes. I don't have the Vancouvers so that one isn't there. And i don't have any Gladys tunes in there either! but i have pretty much all of their Motown albums. problem is they don't identify the producers

what tracks?

I'LL BE STANDING BY [[from EVERYBODY NEEDS LOVE, produced by Bristol & Fuqua)

GOOD LOVIN' AIN'T EASY TO COME BY [[from MOTOWN SINGS MOTOWN TREASURES, produced by Bristol & Fuqua)

RUNNIN' OUT [[from NITTY GRITTY)

DIDN'T YOU KNOW [[YOU'D HAVE TO CRY SOMETIME)[[from NITTY GRITTY)

KEEP AN EYE [[from NITTY GRITTY)

I HAD A DREAM [[from MOTOWN UNRELEASED 1970)