In the 80's, These Guys LOVED Their Divas! But Where's Diana?

[marybrewster]

In the mid-80's, 1986 and 1987 specifically, the air waves were filled with duets between male acts [[oddly enough, all white) and "divas" [[oddly enough, all non-white).

1985:

Bryan Adams and Tina Turner

1986:

Michael McDonald and Patti LaBelle
Steve Winwood and Chaka
Eddie Money and Ronnie Spector

1987:

George Michael and Aretha
Pet Shop Boys and Dusty Springfield [[okay, Dusty was white, but has there been another like her with as much soul?)

Honorable Mention:

1985:

Elton John [[and Stevie) with Gladys and Dionne.

I wonder why Diana never jumped on the bandwagon?

Who would a good counterpart have been? And please, Larry Hagman does not count.

[Albator]

I don't understand, since she did something big with Julio Iglesias in 1984 called All Of You.

[khansperac]

Maybe the fact that she already recorded the most successful duet of all time with Endless Love, then recorded a duet with the biggest international artist in the world - Julio Iglesias, she felt like that was enough.

[marybrewster]

I don't understand, since she did something big with Julio Iglesias in 1984 caller All Of You.

Good call. I had forgotten about that one. But I was thinking more like Bruce Springsteen and Diana Ross? The Boss and THE Boss? LOL.

[marybrewster]

Maybe the fact that she already recorded the most successful duet of all time with Endless Love, then recorded a duet with the biggest international artist in the world - Julio Iglesias, she felt like that was enough.

Very well could be. Just seemed like the above mentioned pairings were a bit out there; you've got a 20-something Bryan Adams with a 40-something Tina; same with George and Aretha. Thought it might be fun to speculate who Diana could have done a duet with.

I guess not.

[khansperac]

She did record a duet with Al B. Sure. Who was the hot new thing on the scene. But he is black, and that may have been in 1990. So not sure this applies to your question.

[captainjames]

I think Diana Ross and AL B Sure would have been a good duet.

[khansperac]

I think Diana Ross and AL B Sure would have been a good duet.

??? They did record a duet and it was very good and a big hit.

[khansperac]

Although not billed as, or technically a duet. Chain Reaction sounds like a duet with Diana and Barry Gibb.

[blackguy69]

Not quite. It did top at #4 on the r&b charts but failed to chart in the top 100 charts.
??? They did record a duet and it was very good and a big hit.

[vgalindo]

Not quite. It did top at #4 on the r&b charts but failed to chart in the top 100 charts.
It was a very big hit on the R&B charts.

[gman]

Millie Jackson and Elton John 1983[[?) "ACT OF WAR"....I know it was released in the UK I don't know about here in the USA....both my copies of the 12" are promo imports.

[blackguy69]

But it didn’t chart on the top 100
It was a very big hit on the R&B charts.

[marv2]

This was so nice and probably my favorite duet of the 80s:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t90AIc5dZv0

[marv2]

Then Dionne came back in 1987 with this great one with Jeffrey Osborne:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VZzNOhPK2Cw

[marv2]

Dionne and Glenn Jones, "Finders of Lost Loves" from 1985. It was used as the theme of a television show, but I can't remember the name at the moment:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FjRFdSltcmA

[Roberta75]

But it didn’t chart on the top 100

Why can’t We just be happy for her instead of being negative?

[marv2]

This was a very popular song by Patti LaBelle and Bobby Womack from 1984:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kEezzj-pEj0

[marv2]

Aretha Franklin and the Four Tops duet of "I Wanna Make It Up to You" knocked me completely out when I first heard it. From her "Jump to It" album:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bRkReuJjX28

[marv2]

Tina Turner Duet with Robert Cray) 634 5789 from 1986:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f1N8oXuARHw

[Bluebrock]

Why can’t We just be happy for her instead of being negative?
Good point Roberta. He appears to think it only applies to Mary. One rule for one. One rule for another.

[vgalindo]

Why can’t We just be happy for her instead of being negative?
Thank you Roberta! Half these songs they are listing also didn’t hit the the top 100. But I guess Diana Ross is held you a higher standard. He would be over the moon if Mary had a top 5 R&B hit.

[Ollie9]

I really don't see why blackguy is being perceived as being negative. He was just correctly pointing out that "No Matter What You Do" could hardly be considered a huge hit. I have always loved the song, but would imagine outside this forum few people even remember it.

[florence]

Don't forget Diana had first choice at Islands In The Stream with Barry Gibb but luckily for Kenny Rogers and Dolly Parton turned it down.

[khansperac]

I really don't see why blackguy is being perceived as being negative. He was just correctly pointing out that "No Matter What You Do" could hardly be considered a huge hit. I have always loved the song, but would imagine outside this forum few people even remember it.

You would be wrong. The audience for that song remembers it well. Not just Ross fans as you’d like to believe. It disgust me that when it comes to a black/urban song, it is not deemed successful unless it crosses over. To point out that a top 5 hit on the R&B chart wasn’t successful, on a “Soulful” website is crazy.

[Albator]

I really don't see why blackguy is being perceived as being negative. He was just correctly pointing out that "No Matter What You Do" could hardly be considered a huge hit. I have always loved the song, but would imagine outside this forum few people even remember it.
this bother me for some time. If a top 5 hit isn’t remembered, what does it mean to have a hit in the R&B charts
https://soulfuldetroit.com/blob:https://soulfuldetroit.com/ac4c689e-be39-4268-a135-12c19fb782e5
Swept away, Eaten alive, Workin overtime, No matter what you do, were hits but they it seems they were not hit at all.

[blackguy69]

That wasn’t a negative comment . I just stated it’s chart position and got a negative response back. some of you are acting like a child that just discovered there’s no Santa Claus

[Roberta75]

That wasn’t a negative comment . I just stated it’s chart position and got a negative response back. some of you are acting like a child that just discovered there’s no Santa Claus

merry Christmas dear.❤️

[blackguy69]

And have a happy new year my dear
merry Christmas dear.❤️

[blackguy69]

He isn’t wrong few people know that song outside her fan base. Now , Its my House is a different story. It peaked at #27 on the r&b charts and never chatted on the top 100 charts. It was a #1 dance hit and it was wildly popular. It just depends on the song.

You would be wrong. The audience for that song remembers it well. Not just Ross fans as you’d like to believe. It disgust me that when it comes to a black/urban song, it is not deemed successful unless it crosses over. To point out that a top 5 hit on the R&B chart wasn’t successful, on a “Soulful” website is crazy.

[khansperac]

What you are missing is that this isn’t a solo Diana Ross song, that only her fan base would remember. This is a duet. So not only is there the Ross fan base, but there is also the Al B. Sure fan base. In addition to them, there are the fans of the “Quiet Storm” radio format, which was extremely popular in the 80’s and 90’s when this song was charting. So I stand by the fact that this song is known by more than Diana Ross fans.

[vgalindo]

What you are missing is that this isn’t a solo Diana Ross song, that only her fan base would remember. This is a duet. So not only is there the Ross fan base, but there is also the Al B. Sure fan base. In addition to them, there are the fans of the “Quiet Storm” radio format, which was extremely popular in the 80’s and 90’s when this song was charting. So I stand by the fact that this song is known by more than Diana Ross fans.
I agree. When this song was out it was very popular with everyone I knew. Everyone who loves R&B music knows this song.

[marv2]

Not quite. It did top at #4 on the r&b charts but failed to chart in the top 100 charts.

It was a weak, weak record. The people that bought it did so on the basis of Al B. Sure's popularity at the time.

[Albator]

this bother me for some time. If a top 5 hit isn’t remembered, what does it mean to have a hit in the R&B charts
:[[
Swept away, Eaten alive, Workin overtime, No matter what you do, were hits but they it seems they were not hit at all.No answers but I have at least two songs that did poorly on the main pop chart but managed to get Gold certification [[1 million, at that time)

- "Close the door", Teddy Pendergrass, #25 pop, #1 R&B
- "You Gonna Make Me Love Somebody Else", The Jones Girls, #38 pop, #5 R&B

[khansperac]

this bother me for some time. If a top 5 hit isn’t remembered, what does it mean to have a hit in the R&B charts
https://soulfuldetroit.com/blob:https://soulfuldetroit.com/ac4c689e-be39-4268-a135-12c19fb782e5
Swept away, Eaten alive, Workin overtime, No matter what you do, were hits but they it seems they were not hit at all.

Swept Away was definitely a hit. Top 20 on the pop chart, #3 on R&B chart, and #1 on the dance chart.

[vgalindo]

It was a weak, weak record. The people that bought it did so on the basis of Al B. Sure's popularity at the time.
You would say that. Lol 😂

[sup_fan]

this bother me for some time. If a top 5 hit isn’t remembered, what does it mean to have a hit in the R&B charts
https://soulfuldetroit.com/blob:https://soulfuldetroit.com/ac4c689e-be39-4268-a135-12c19fb782e5
Swept away, Eaten alive, Workin overtime, No matter what you do, were hits but they it seems they were not hit at all.

if you look at some of the Supremes' songs, they fit this too. Love Is Here is probably not one of the most immediately recognizable hits. If you went out to the general public, most might say they've never heard it. And yet My World Is Empty has been much more enduring. Reflections too.

But i bet if you asked people to name one of the first [[if not the first) super duets between two mega groups that sold zillions, the avg person would never say I'm Gonna Make You Love Me.

hard to say why 1 song sticks with the general public's memory and others don't. it isn't solely on chart ranking or even sales.

[Guy]

She did record a duet with Al B. Sure. Who was the hot new thing on the scene. But he is black, and that may have been in 1990. So not sure this applies to your question.

I would love to hear the story behind the Al B. Sure duet. I am sure she declined many duet opportunities in the 80s and 90s, and I do not understand how or why she picked this one.

I love the song. I think she sounds wonderful in that sonic setting. Her performance was listless but her voice was lustrous. I recall the age difference being an issue given the very romantic lyrical content. I hoped that she would record in that vein on her own full-length project.

[Ollie9]

You would be wrong. The audience for that song remembers it well. Not just Ross fans as you’d like to believe. It disgust me that when it comes to a black/urban song, it is not deemed successful unless it crosses over. To point out that a top 5 hit on the R&B chart wasn’t successful, on a “Soulful” website is crazy.

In my post i was referring to mainstream pop success so i stand by what i say. The song could never be considered a huge Diana Ross hit. Comparatively few [[not all) would remember a song that did quite well on the R&B chart thirty years ago yet was a complete and utter flop on the pop charts. Most of joe public have simply never heard it, and those that did have simply forgotten about it. I don't believe the song was even featured on any r&b compilation albums. So be disgusted all you like dear, that's my opinion.

[marv2]

In my post i was referring to mainstream pop success so i stand by what i say. The song could never be considered a huge Diana Ross hit. Comparatively few [[not all) would remember a song that did quite well on the R&B chart thirty years ago yet was a complete and utter flop on the pop charts. Most of joe public have simply never heard it, and those that did have simply forgotten about it. I don't believe the song was even featured on any r&b compilation albums. So be disgusted all you like dear, that's my opinion.

The truth is that many people no longer even remember Al. B. Sure. You have to really help them to remember him. I even think he may have been a subject for "Unsung".

[MotownGold]

I am about one more comment away from exposing you and your pathetic life. I know exactly who you are and thinking of you [[in any context) makes me want to throw up. You are a worthless human being, but if you think I cannot reveal your personal problems, financial issues etc....

Test Me!

And for the record. Al B Sure narrated Unsung.

[RanRan79]

I wonder why Diana never jumped on the bandwagon?

Who would a good counterpart have been? And please, Larry Hagman does not count.

Wonder why? Because she was too busy recording "Pieces Of Ice" rather than look at what was trendy and then put her stamp on it.

She did do the duet with Julio Iglesias, which was a beautiful song. It's actually one of the handful of Diana RCA tunes that I keep in constant rotation. And of course she has what is probably the duet of the decade in "Endless Love", so one might argue she started the trend.

As for good counterparts, gotta start with Lionel. I think there was magic and chemistry between their voices that could've given us a few more classic duets. And then there's the obvious Michael Jackson. I so enjoy watching and listening to them on "Rock With You" on Diana's special. Of course he's present on "Muscles" and "Eaten Alive", but I really think a true duet between them would've been gold. I love Siedah Garrett, and she was perfect for "I Just Can't Stop Loving You", but I think that would've also been a great duet for MJ and Ross.

Peabo Bryson gets a vote. What if Diana had done something with Kool And the Gang, singing with JT? Christopher Cross might have been good with Diana. Phil Collins might have been an interesting pairing. Prince too. Ray Parker Jr would've been good. Stevie Wonder would've been a dream.

Instead we would get Al B Sure.

[RanRan79]

Good call. I had forgotten about that one. But I was thinking more like Bruce Springsteen and Diana Ross? The Boss and THE Boss? LOL.

That would've been an excellent idea, at least from a marketing perspective!

[RanRan79]

I really don't see why blackguy is being perceived as being negative. He was just correctly pointing out that "No Matter What You Do" could hardly be considered a huge hit. I have always loved the song, but would imagine outside this forum few people even remember it.

I don't know why they come for BG. He's always so fair.

Regarding "No Matter", for the song to hit #4 it was getting a ton of airplay...somewhere. I barely remember it. To me the song just isn't that memorable. But a #4 hit is not a small feat.

[RanRan79]

You would be wrong. The audience for that song remembers it well. Not just Ross fans as you’d like to believe. It disgust me that when it comes to a black/urban song, it is not deemed successful unless it crosses over. To point out that a top 5 hit on the R&B chart wasn’t successful, on a “Soulful” website is crazy.

Unfortunately, if it's Black, it's viewed as less than. It's a fact of life. To those of us who grew up on R&B radio, we know a huge hit when we hear it. As I said before, #4 R&B is not a small feat. However, I do think the song is largely forgotten. Al B Sure has other songs that are remembered much better. And obviously Diana does too.

[TheMotownManiac]

Wonder why? Because she was too busy recording "Pieces Of Ice" rather than look at what was trendy and then put her stamp on it.

She did do the duet with Julio Iglesias, which was a beautiful song. It's actually one of the handful of Diana RCA tunes that I keep in constant rotation. And of course she has what is probably the duet of the decade in "Endless Love", so one might argue she started the trend.

As for good counterparts, gotta start with Lionel. I think there was magic and chemistry between their voices that could've given us a few more classic duets. And then there's the obvious Michael Jackson. I so enjoy watching and listening to them on "Rock With You" on Diana's special. Of course he's present on "Muscles" and "Eaten Alive", but I really think a true duet between them would've been gold. I love Siedah Garrett, and she was perfect for "I Just Can't Stop Loving You", but I think that would've also been a great duet for MJ and Ross.

Peabo Bryson gets a vote. What if Diana had done something with Kool And the Gang, singing with JT? Christopher Cross might have been good with Diana. Phil Collins might have been an interesting pairing. Prince too. Ray Parker Jr would've been good. Stevie Wonder would've been a dream.

Instead we would get Al B Sure.

great line! Thanks for the laugh.

[RanRan79]

In my post i was referring to mainstream pop success so i stand by what i say. The song could never be considered a huge Diana Ross hit. Comparatively few [[not all) would remember a song that did quite well on the R&B chart thirty years ago yet was a complete and utter flop on the pop charts. Most of joe public have simply never heard it, and those that did have simply forgotten about it. I don't believe the song was even featured on any r&b compilation albums. So be disgusted all you like dear, that's my opinion.

I know you don't mean any disrespect with your comment Ollie, but I have to say I take exception to it and the disregard for the "40 million" plus Black people [[and others who love R&B and listened faithfully to radio stations that played that kind of music) who consumed the songs that made the R&B chart, both by radio and by sales. If you buy into the notion that only what white people or pop music fans consume is memorable or noteworthy you're certainly entitled to that opinion. But as someone who is Black and grew up in the Black community, steeped in the culture, and was once a faithful listener to some of the nation's leading radio stations devoted to r&b music, I can tell you, there are indeed songs that are MASSIVELY popular but were not successful outside the genre.

Take Stephanie Mills' "I Feel Good All Over". Number one r&b hit in 1987. Find me a Black person born between 1940 and 1983 who cannot sing at least the chorus to this song, and that would be a Black person who was not listening to r&b radio in 1987. Stephanie can step on any stage, anywhere, with a sizable Black audience and turn the place out doing this one song alone. Yet "I Feel Good All Over" didn't chart at all on the Hot 100. All that means is that a segment of society felt it, while other segments didn't get it.

It does suck to be told that a song popular with one segment of society doesn't carry the same weight as another song popular with another segment of society, especially when there are countless songs popular with non r&b loving folks that most Black people have never heard nor find memorable. As I said before, I doubt this is the way you've thought about this. Hopefully you get the other side of this and understand it better.

[RanRan79]

The truth is that many people no longer even remember Al. B. Sure. You have to really help them to remember him. I even think he may have been a subject for "Unsung".

What makes you believe that? Al B Sure had some of the biggest hits of the New Jack Swing era. He may not be making current hits now, but his songs are on the soundtrack of many folks lives. He is very much remembered. Him and his unibrow.

[RanRan79]

I am about one more comment away from exposing you and your pathetic life. I know exactly who you are and thinking of you [[in any context) makes me want to throw up. You are a worthless human being, but if you think I cannot reveal your personal problems, financial issues etc....

Test Me!

And for the record. Al B Sure narrated Unsung.

Maybe you should step away from the forum for awhile. There isn't anything going on in Soulful Detroit that should have you wanting to throw up or reveal posters personal business. Nothing you can tell us about any given poster would be as disgusting as you revealing it. Y'all doing too much.

[RanRan79]

great line! Thanks for the laugh.

Anytime my friend.:cool:

[Albator]

She did do the duet with Julio Iglesias, which was a beautiful song. It's actually one of the handful of Diana RCA tunes that I keep in constant rotation. Really? I often wonder if the song is remembered in the US. It was quite a hit elsewhere in Europe, but it's like a forgotten song today. Maybe because Iglesias suffer from a bad image.

[florence]

And yet it didn't do very well in the UK.

[Ollie9]

I know you don't mean any disrespect with your comment Ollie, but I have to say I take exception to it and the disregard for the "40 million" plus Black people [[and others who love R&B and listened faithfully to radio stations that played that kind of music) who consumed the songs that made the R&B chart, both by radio and by sales. If you buy into the notion that only what white people or pop music fans consume is memorable or noteworthy you're certainly entitled to that opinion. But as someone who is Black and grew up in the Black community, steeped in the culture, and was once a faithful listener to some of the nation's leading radio stations devoted to r&b music, I can tell you, there are indeed songs that are MASSIVELY popular but were not successful outside the genre.

Take Stephanie Mills' "I Feel Good All Over". Number one r&b hit in 1987. Find me a Black person born between 1940 and 1983 who cannot sing at least the chorus to this song, and that would be a Black person who was not listening to r&b radio in 1987. Stephanie can step on any stage, anywhere, with a sizable Black audience and turn the place out doing this one song alone. Yet "I Feel Good All Over" didn't chart at all on the Hot 100. All that means is that a segment of society felt it, while other segments didn't get it.

It does suck to be told that a song popular with one segment of society doesn't carry the same weight as another song popular with another segment of society, especially when there are countless songs popular with non r&b loving folks that most Black people have never heard nor find memorable. As I said before, I doubt this is the way you've thought about this. Hopefully you get the other side of this and understand it better.

Yes i do RanRan, and most certainly no disrespect was meant. Perhaps i should have just said i really don't think NMWYD is generally that well remembered, even by R&B fans of which i am one.
It's funny, but being a fan of r&b i was delighted when the record came out. This was the genre of music i so wanted to hear from Diana and i remember playing the 12" to death. Loved the various remixes of the song. I was even happy with the WO set.

[RanRan79]

Really? I often wonder if the song is remembered in the US. It was quite a hit elsewhere in Europe, but it's like a forgotten song today. Maybe because Iglesias suffer from a bad image.

I really don't believe much of any of her RCA stuff is remembered much, outside of the biggest hits she had during her time there. I personally enjoy the melody and the way they sing the song.

[RanRan79]

Yes i do RanRan, and most certainly no disrespect was meant. Perhaps i should have just said i really don't think NMWYD is generally that well remembered, even by R&B fans of which i am one.
It's funny, but being a fan of r&b i was delighted when the record came out. This was the genre of music i so wanted to hear from Diana and i remember playing the 12" to death. Loved the various remixes of the song. I was even happy with the WO set.

Yeah, I agree, ultimately the song isn't remembered by too many folks. Sometimes it's like that. As I said before, Al has some cuts that are unforgettable. And certainly Diana has more than her share, particularly when you factor in the Supremes. Someone mentioned "It's My House" earlier in the thread. Excellent example. Number 12 r&b but unforgettable. Waaaaayyyyy more people remember "House" rather than "No Matter", I imagine.

[blackguy69]

I mentioned it. I thought that was a great example.

Yeah, I agree, ultimately the song isn't remembered by too many folks. Sometimes it's like that. As I said before, Al has some cuts that are unforgettable. And certainly Diana has more than her share, particularly when you factor in the Supremes. Someone mentioned "It's My House" earlier in the thread. Excellent example. Number 12 r&b but unforgettable. Waaaaayyyyy more people remember "House" rather than "No Matter", I imagine.

[Albator]

Some Supremes LPs were much bigger on the R&B ranking than the Pop charts.
"Love Child" spent 5 w in the top 5 and above all, "Cream of Crop" with 7 w in the top 5 while it barely made the top 40 pop.

[Jaap]

"All of You" was quite a big hit around the world [[with the exception of the UK). I personally never liked it as I can't stand Julio Iglesias's singing and the song is more in his style than Diana's. The strategy to make a crossover into English-language pop [[including the US market) worked though, working with Diana Ross, The Beach Boys and Willie Nelson. 1100 Bel Air Place is undoubtedly his most popular album. That Diana also included the song on the Swept Away album makes sense [[releasing the album with already one Billboard Top 20 hit included), but the song really doesn't fit the album at all. I've always assumed "All of You" replaced "Fight for It" [[would have been better if it had replaced "We Are the Children of the World"!). The video is a quite nice 1980s guilty pleasure though!

[PeaceNHarmony]

Thank you Roberta! Half these songs they are listing also didn’t hit the the top 100. But I guess Diana Ross is held you a higher standard. He would be over the moon if Mary had a top 5 R&B hit.Or any hit, including her stealing 'Ooh Child' from the 5 Stairsteps. Or 'Here's To Life' from Shirley Horn. Or 'Imagine' from John Lennon.

[vgalindo]

Or any hit, including her stealing 'Ooh Child' from the 5 Stairsteps. Or 'Here's To Life' from Shirley Horn. Or 'Imagine' from John Lennon.
And don’t forget “Can’t take my eyes off of you”. She wore that Frankie Valli song out. For a while I thought that was the only song she knew. Lol.

[PeaceNHarmony]

And don’t forget “Can’t take my eyes off of you”. She wore that Frankie Valli song out. For a while I thought that was the only song she knew. Lol.So true! And, let's not forget 'Everybody Gets To Go To The Moon', stolen from Thelma Houston. I guess the only thing she couldn't steal was attention away from Diana :rolleyes: !

[Ollie9]

"Do You Know Where You're Going To", "Why Do Fools Fall in Love" I Will Survive" stolen from...............who cares!.:rolleyes:

[midnightman]

??? They did record a duet and it was very good and a big hit.

I remembered No Matter What You Do being played on KISS 102 FM a lot in 1990-91 lol

[midnightman]

Although not billed as, or technically a duet. Chain Reaction sounds like a duet with Diana and Barry Gibb.

I think every Gibb was on it.